HYPNOTHERAPY SESSION — TAPE #61, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell Bell
V: David Botsford (clinical hypnotherapist)
Q: So what is today’s date, David? I forget.
V: The 29th.
Q: Okay. January 29th (1996) psychotherapy session — or should I say hypnotherapy session? (“HY”) Hypno — one hypnotist and one psycho. (small laugh)
V: Oh (GASP) no. Hardly.
Q: No — no, exactly. (“SO”) Okay. So I read you some of those poems that really freaked me out.
V: Yes.
Q: Like — I don’t even remember the titles. Oh but I do remember the one title. How could I ever forget that one title? “Sorry For Jesus.”
V: Mm. (“SO”)
Q: I mean that sort of expressed His feelings about that. (“Mm”) But the other most important poems in this book Sunshine Days and Foggy Nights by James Kavanaugh were “Easy to Replace,” “I Will Not Be Tormented By Love” and “In Times Past.” So He definitely — (“WAS IN A”) He just wasn’t in a happy mood. (“SO UM”) And not only that — I received the, (“HH”) you know, James Kavanaugh — this author has a newsletter, which has a very encouraging poem. But apparently this poet has a lot of problems — manic-depressive problems. (“A[ND]”) I can well understand why — channeling God in this (“WW”) capacity.
V: Sure.
Q: I mean he probably has no idea — (“THAT”) well, every artistic person is channeling God to some extent or other for whatever purposes. One of the purposes of His poems are to let me know God’s feelings.
[2021 UPDATE: READERS SHOULD BE REMINDED THAT MY SPONTANEOUS THOUGHTS AND REACTIONS TO MY CIRCUMSTANCES OFTEN WERE OFTEN HURRIEDLY ARTICULATED AND EXPRESSED POSSIBILITIES AND SPECULATIONS DURING THIS EARLY PERIOD OF MY CASE CHRONOLOGY. I WAS EXPRESSING SUBJECTIVE REASONING OF A PARTICULAR MOMENT. IT WAS THE WAY THAT THE LIBRARY CLERK CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT LETTING ME HAVE THE DISTURBING POETRY BOOK THAT LED ME TO CONSIDER IF THIS WAS AN INSTANCE OF 'OVERSHADOWING' OR 'THOUGHT TRANSFERENCE.' THERE WAS NO SUBSTANTIATION TO SUPPORT ANY OF THE NEGATIVITY FOUND IN THE POEMS IN RELATION TO MY UNSEEN COLLABORATOR/S AS OF THE FOLLOWING DAY, DAYS, MONTHS, YEARS.]
V: Yes.
Q: On a very personal level. So, unfortunately, James Kavanaugh has to — I mean this tension has to be recreated in this poet’s mind. So the poor guy is like a basketcase without even knowing why or understanding why. (“AND YOU KNOW”) But he’s making beautiful art. (“SO”) I mean I’m sure he’s happy. He hasn’t been able to find his soulmate but not very many people have.
V: Of course.
Q: I think Mighael and I still are soulmates. We are getting along very well. So (“OKAY”) phenomena-wise — okay, today, for example, I was talking to my brother on the phone and a pen started rolling a little bit on my desk. (“SOME” “THEY JUST”) It’s unusual that He let me — makes it that obvious. (“USUALLY IT’S” “YOU KNOW”) Usually it isn’t that obvious. I guess He knew I would talk about it in therapy tonight for my book. (“EVEN THOUGH”) I get so tired of talking about — it sounds like minutia to me. For example — okay, I’ll tell you the songs that I’ve been hearing on the radio. On the way in there was “Six Months in a Leaky Boat” by Split Enz, which actually is from one of my favorite CDs. (“BY” “YOU KNOW”) And I was surprised to hear it because it’s a very little-known song. (“MM”) And, actually, the sister of one of my brother’s old lovers designed the cover for the album (Time and Tide). So there are all these interesting connections that keep cropping up. (“OKAY”) Other songs I heard today include “Father Figure” by George Michael. Have you heard that new song “Jesus To A Child”?
V: I might have seen it. Yes. In the video. (“FOUND IT” “IT’S”)
Q: What’s it like? (“YEAH”)
V: Pretty good. Pretty — stylish.
Q: I can’t watch TV.
V: Well, I don’t like watching very much.
Q: Is there any religious imagery?
V: I think there was. As I remember. (“I WAS”) I think I was in somebody’s house (“AL”) when it was playing. I wasn’t really paying any attention. (“OKAY SO AGAIN”)
Q: “From A Distance” came on again today. (And) “The Rose” — see, He knows what songs push my buttons.
V: Mm.
Q: “The Rose” always gets me. (“MM” “SO I HEARD”) I heard two Bette Midler songs today. (“MM”) I was joking about her movie “Ruthless People.” You know. (“IN TERMS OF”) Anyway, you’ll have to read my book to (“YEAH”) figure it out. (“GET IT”) You probably get it. Let’s see — what else was it that I heard today? “Harmony” by Elton John. All Elton John songs are very — I mean there are all these things in them. In fact, for one tape side I just went through (“TWO”) two lines in each song. They each had exact things about my relationship with Mighael.
V: Right. (“THING” “SONGS” “ESPECIALLY”)
Q: And then you take your songs like “The Bitch Is Back.”
V: Yes. (“I MEAN”) (small laugh)
Q: What can I say? “From A Distance” I told you came on again. I think that they should redo the song. (“THAT SHE”) Bette Midler should redo the song (“AND”) and add the word “Not” — “Not From A Distance.”
V: Yes. (small laugh) (“NO”)
Q: “You’re So Vain.” (“MM” “I JUST CAN’T”) I was talking about that song on one of my cassettes and again “You’re So Vain” came on. “You’re In My Heart” by Rod Stewart. (“MM”) And “Somewhere Out There.” And my friend Fiona called me today. You know how I feel like whenever someone invites me to a movie it’s like ‘now is the time that God wants me to see this particular movie.’
V: Yes.
Q: So she called to invite me to go to see “Persuasion” Thursday night with her so I get to finally see “Persuasion.”
V: Mm.
Q: I’m very happy about that. (“I”) Met some more people who told me that they were the reincarnation of famous people. So I said, “By the way, who are you the reincarnation of, Fiona?” (“AND SHE”) Even though I keep telling her Morgana le Fay. But she said, “Well, I think I’m the reincarnation of Hollywood actress Alice Faye.” So another Fay. She talked about seeing something at a little store near her — (“AA”) what’s it called? Oh, it doesn’t matter. (“WAS IT”) There’s a little store on Laurel Canyon that’s like an English store — oh, Tottenham Court. So apparently she saw (“LIKE”) this paper doll-type thing of Alice Faye and she was trying to decide if she should buy it. She doesn’t know much about Alice Faye but she just has the impression that she’s the reincarnation of Alice Faye. (“AND”) I told her Morgana le Fay. I don’t know if she gets the connection yet.
V: (small laugh)
Q: So I think that was quite funny. So I’m trying to think what else I should tell you about. (“WELL”) It was interesting. I don’t know if I should tell you this or not but (“NO”) in terms of my question mark about whether or not the CIA or Secret Service is tapping my phone and following me. There was a long time I kept seeing the same guy at the gym every day when I was there. And once I took a different route to the locker room and he freaked. He almost jumped on top of me. Well, I’ve been seeing him again this week. Well, I mean — (“OR WH”) what’s today? Monday? I saw him Friday and Monday. And I went at different times. When I went in today around two o’clock he was there. He was already there. And then today when I left at three-thirty he was leaving after I was leaving. And he knows where my locker is there. And his locker was in that same section.
V: Mm. (“SO”)
Q: And he kept — (“AND HE”) plus, he was also, like, when I was doing the abs he was doing the abs. (“SO I”) You really have to wonder if maybe I am his assignment. (“I DID” “USE”) I thought he was the cute one. I don’t know if you noticed on one of my tape transcripts but I said that ‘one of them I think is cute.’ And then the Spirit said, “NO.”
V: (small laugh) (“WELL I DID”)
Q: There was one time when I took a good look at him and he really isn’t cute. He’s got a good body, though. (“BUT”) He’s really not cute so Mighael was right.
V: (small laugh)
Q: But, you know, I mean — also, when I was interviewing my friend Terrance there was another semi-naked jogger.
V: Mm.
Q: Needless to say. And, not only that, (“WHEN I WENT”) when I went to the antique store later in that same area the same jogger was there.
V: Really?
Q: So it’s like I keep saying — I think Mighael’s trying to see what I’ll think even.
V: (small laugh)
Q: It’s like if I even think of screwing him He’ll get mad. (“YOU KNOW” “IT’S SCARY”) It’s really scary. I keep telling Him, “I’m not interested.”
V: Mm.
Q: “I’m not interested.” (“MM”) And He keeps wanting — like a little child (“WHO”) still wants to see just how faithful you are. So I guess my book will be published when He thinks I’m spiritually ready, which is a very scary thought. (“BECAUSE” “I DON’T”) Personally, (“IF”) if I were judging myself I don’t think I would ever be spiritually ready for this one.
V: (small laugh) Exactly. (“HHHH”)
Q: So I don’t know. It might be interesting just to hear some of your feedback, though — (“HAVING”) having read now a portion of the book in terms of what do you think. I mean what are some of your impressions? (“MIN” “DO YOU”) Do you think I am Son of Man? Or do you think that’s a possibility?
V: The impression I gained is of somebody searching for truth.
Q: Right.
V: Searching for the reality behind experience.
Q: Right.
V: Asking questions. Discussing with people. Wanting to find a definitive answer. (“WW” “YOU KNOW IT”)
Q: I mean it’s like if you believe in Son of Man — I don’t think I’ve ever asked you your religion. (“ARE YOU”) What are you? Christian? (“OR”)
V: Well, that’s —
Q: Non-denominational Christian?
V: That would take a long time for me to discuss my (“RIGHT”) views about spirituality —
Q: Right.
V: — and all that sort of thing. I would say that I’m aware of the spiritual dimension of the human being and the needs and fulfillments of that. I would reject dogmatism of any kind. I would reject revelation. I would tend to endorse authenticity within religious and spiritual experiences. (“YEAH”)
Q: Yeah. Well, I showed you my medallion of the god (Amun-) Ra who looks just like me. So in my book one of my concepts is that the old gods were just like people and, in fact, each person walking the face of the Earth is a god. And where they are in terms of the hierarchy of godliness is up to God (“YEN”) to decide. So that probably fits in with your basic over-all concept, much of which I’m sure is unexpressible. But, in terms of Son of Man, I mean (“T”) what you’re telling me is (“IS”) sort of encouraging because I would be a good candidate for Son of Man in your religion —
V: Mm. (“MM”)
Q: — since you don’t believe in dogmatism.
V: Mm. Absolutely.
Q: You know — that he would be somebody totally normal.
V: Yes. (“THAT’S RIGHT”)
Q: And he would be one of us because we’re each an aspect of God.
V: Exactly.
Q: So (“ANYWAY”) I wonder about the Mabus business. I mean the Spirit voice did say “NO” unless I’m misinterpreting it. I don’t know. Who do you think is the antichrist? Who would you think is the antichrist?
V: I find it difficult to say it’s one particular person. (“THE LAST”)
Q: The last time I was trying to figure it out I said, “Maybe it’s television.”
V: (small laugh)
Q: But now people keep — whenever I say this to people, they always say, “Oh no. Television is very educational and informative.” Yes, it is to a certain extent. (“BUT I GUESS”) Like with everything it’s a matter of not overdoing it.
V: Mm. (“THE GIFT”)
Q: Television is educational but if you overdo it like anything it becomes a negative factor in someone’s life. But in terms of — (“OKAY”) so here I am, Son of Man. I showed you my photographs. There’s no way of really confirming anything except maybe the Declaration of Independence. I think that’s very confirmable. I’m not quite sure about the other ones. Well, I guess they could do a Carbon-13 test on the Ark to find out. And, if I have the Declaration of Independence and the Ark of the Covenant, (“THEN”) that would have to be the Holy Grail too. (“ON IT” “JUST”) Makes sense. (“YOU KNOW” “THAT IT WOULD BE THE SAME” “THAT DID”) I would have it too. (“I MEAN”) So I don’t know. I’m just trying to figure out — okay, so here I am, Son of Man, (“IS”) in the world fulfilling all the prophecies for Son of Man. (“AND”) Proving God’s existence in His book, I guess. (“IF PEOPLE”) I hope. Because apparently there are different potential paths for mankind. And they all have a happy ending because everyone gets eternal life. (“BUT”) Exactly what mankind has to go through in the next few years — I mean let’s hope they’re not as bad as the plagues (“NN”) in the Bible.
V: Yes.
Q: And they could be.
V: Mm. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: He’s let me know. Like wherever I go I see car accidents, floods — (“NO”) people die all around me. I mean it’s really unusual. (“SO”) And, again, it’s not like He’s doing bad things to people around me. It’s just that I’m at the center of the synchronicity (“MM”) and everything is planned — (“SO THESE”) things were all planned to reveal His existence.
V: Mm.
Q: And He isn’t doing it like (He does with) Sai Baba because Americans would laugh if they saw something materialize in front of them. They would know it was something done with mirrors. David Copperfield.
V: Yes. (laughs) (WHEEZE)
Q: Or Siegfried and Roy. (“YOU KNOW IT’S LIKE” “HE WOULD — HE WOULD” “I’M SURE HE’S”) Having me go out and go shopping like Alicia Silverstein in “Clueless.” (“YOU KNOW” “AND THAT’S WHAT”) That’s what America deserves — a Jesus Christ who goes shopping.
V: (small laugh) It would be quite appropriate really.
Q: Exactly. (“NO”) A Jesus Christ (“WHO”) who worked very hard on more than one hundred Paramount movies and no one at Paramount will give him the time of day. From Sherry Lansing to Allison Jackson. And notice in both of her names the word son? There was also a Jackson Browne song on the radio but I can’t remember which one. (“HONEY”) People are going to think, “Oh, that’s stupid. God wouldn’t do these stupid things to prove He exists.” (“WELL”) What do you think, David? (“I MEAN IT”) There’s an awful lot in my book and I did it very quickly. I did this all I think since — (“WHEN”) when did I start? (“OKAY”) I came back at the end of August and then (after my first three frantic weeks of work) there was a month when I didn’t even dare touch the book because I wasn’t sure exactly what was going on. So I didn’t really start this book until October. (“AND” “YOU KNOW”) As you see, I have 1,500 pages — enough for anyone to imagine. These are all based on microcassettes. I show all the parallels (“LIKE”) from — (“YOU KNOW LIKE” “LIKE”) what is it — the first organism with the bell shape. (“I MEAN”) It seems very obvious to me. (“I”) If I read this book I would believe it. But people don’t want to believe it. (“ME”) They don’t want to have to give their money to charity in order to have everlasting life.
V: That’s right.
Q: See. (“THEY” “THEY”) They want to keep their money. (“AND”) They have enough money. Jim Carrey has how many millions of dollars? Does he need that money? Do any of them need that money? (“I MEAN THEY COULD”) They could start charities with it. I mean do they really think (“THEY’RE”) they’re doing a service to mankind by getting together and singing “Feed the world” (“YOU KNOW ONCE”) every ten years? I mean is this enough giving back? And, of course, I have to ask these questions. “The bitch is back.” (“SO TO SPEAK”)
V: Yes. (small laugh) (“YOU KNOW SO” “I — I MEAN”)
Q: And I don’t really appreciate having to do this. Well, actually I do. I don’t know. I guess I’ll appreciate it more — (“I”) I don’t really want to give up my life — I don’t really want to be any kind of celebrity or anything. And, of course, when my book is published, (“I”) I mean I definitely will be (“IN”) creating some controversy. And I don’t really want that. But I really want what’s best for everybody. So — I don’t know. But I mean I just think that (“IT’S LIKE”) people’s egos are not letting them — (“I MEAN PEO[PL]E”) people (“IS TO”) witness phenomena. Their ego is such that (“IT WILL NOT”) they will not let themselves believe it.
V: Mm. (“THEY DON’T WANT”)
Q: It’s like a war. (“MM”) (“IT’S LIKE A WAR”) In fact, in that song “From A Distance,” if you really listen closely to some of the lyrics, it’s like a war against mankind and God. It really is. And in that book Love’s Awakening it’s also like a war against people’s egos (“UM-HUH”) and God’s ego in terms of doing what’s best for all of mankind. (“PEOPLE” “I GUESS”) I guess the big question is if there’s a part of people — consciousness — (“THAT”) they’re afraid that (“THAT THEY’LL”) when they die (“THEY”) they won’t still be themselves. They’ll just become part of God. And I’m here to tell them that isn’t the case. However — (“YOU KNOW”) it’s like however (“IF YOU DON’T”) if you can’t prove your love while you’re alive you might not have everlasting life. So that’s like a major thing to say to someone. (“YES”) So in order for them to have everlasting life they have to believe in me. (“SO IT’S”) We’re back to Jesus — but not the reincarnation of the original Jesus because He never existed in the way the Bible depicts Him. It’s back to the original ‘Jesus,’ Bel-Marduk, alias the god (Amun-) Ra. So — (“AND I GUESS I’M”) I guess it’s some kind of Father/son relationship because of all the “son”s.
V: Mm.
Q: And, in fact, even in (“IN THE”) those porno comic ads that I saw, in one of the little boxes there was a picture of — his head was cut off but a man with a “DAD” tattoo was having oral sex with the character who looked like me.
V: Mm.
Q: So I don’t know what level people want to take this on. Some days I’m very horny and think, “Oh I might like that.” Other days, I just, “No, I don’t really like that. (“I JUST WANT”) I don’t really want a relationship. I just want to be — (“I JUST”) would want to snuggle with someone once in a while.” (“IN” “SO IT’S LIKE”) I have all these ambivalent feelings, myself.
V: (small laugh)
Q: And I don’t know what to make of any of them. (“MM” “SO IT’S LIKE”) It’s like I’m the perfect one to write this stupid book — this stupid, great book —
V: Yes. (small laugh)
Q: — that even I can’t decide about. I mean I have trouble believing what I’m telling you. (I glance at tape recorder) I mean oh my goodness — oh okay. Well, the tape recorder’s still going. You never know (“WHAT”) what parts He likes and what parts He doesn’t like as you know from past experiences. (“FUENTES” “SO I MEAN” “AND NOTICE” “YOU” “NO”) Notice you haven’t heard any beeps today at all. Because it used to start — when I started them (“YY”) there were beeps. (“LIKE”) Beginning beeps and ending beeps. There will be ending beeps. (“MM”) But it’s not beeping as much.
V: Right.
Q: So in a way you’ve witnessed some of the phenomena.
V: Mm.
Q: From the salt on the counter (“UM-HUH”) to Isabel.
V: Yes.
Q: And when I asked you today about your religion and what you thought about me you still didn’t give a very firm answer. (“SO IT’S LIKE” “I MEAN”) God is testing you too.
V: (Of) course.
Q: And I don’t think He’s very happy with you so far. I mean I’m just being honest with you.
V: Sure.
Q: I don’t think He’s happy with anyone. (“I MEAN” “I DON’T THINK HE’S” “AND I THINK”) Right now He’s okay with me. But, you know, a week ago that wasn’t the case.
V: (small laugh) Right. (“SO I MEAN”)
Q: It’s a very — (“WELL THIS IS”) basically, what He’s doing over-all is a very healthy thing — (“HE’S”) attempting His own mental health too because if He is operating in everyone’s subconscious mind He’s partly responsible. So He has to take some responsibility for His actions too. (“BUT”) This is the most difficult part of it — (“IS”) trying to exactly figure out how much is His responsibility and how much is our responsibility because He has a collaboration (“FROM”) with each person. So I don’t know if that means that He can make everything have a happy ending like in a fairy tale. Or if — well, I don’t think He can because in the original Bible that would never have happened at all if that were the case. So, obviously, (“IT’S LIKE A B[IG]”) it’s like either a chess game or a war or however you want to see it with God’s (“MM”) Mind, (“WHICH IS LIKE”) which is in everything: every living thing, tree, insect, human being, alien from the planet Saturn, politician. (“YOU KNOW”) And it’s like He wants to bring a new love and awareness in the world. And if it doesn’t happen — well, you know. I don’t have to say. You can just read Nostradamus. And notice his name: nostra-dam(n) us.
V: Yes. (I MEAN”)
Q: There are all these different levels. Probably what you should read too is the original Bell Witch case book because that has some interesting things about God and Jesus in it too. So (“UM”) — but, again, (“IT’S” “AGA”) I feel like I have understanding and clarity in terms of God is love, yes, (“UM-HUH”) but He also has other motivations too. I love His sense of humor. (“UM-HUH”) Like last week I was telling you — or two weeks ago I was telling you — I was trying to make sense of what the pyramids were there for because I always felt (“THEY”RE LIKE”) they were like markers of some kind (“MM”) or helped people navigate the UFOs or something like that. (“OR”) Maybe it was (“RA[DIO]”) picking up radio (“MM”) signals. So maybe He’ll tell me what that is by saying, ‘No — no — yes’ or whatever. (“BUT I WAS”) Last time, I was (“SUCH BIZARRE”) thinking, “Well maybe they’re like giant movie screens.” Because I know that they were overlaid with limestone.
V: Mm.
Q: He said, “NUT.” (“SO I MEAN”) It’s encouraging that He has a sense of humor.
V: Yes.
Q: And — He is very loving. It’s just that (“I”) I learned my lesson about not — (“EVIL”) He wants everyone to be honest. Again, honesty is the most important thing in terms of Godliness.
V: Yes.
Q: So it makes it a lot easier for me, knowing that I can be honest. I mean there are still things that I don’t want to talk about. (“BUT”) Let’s just say if push came to shove I would talk about them. I mean I’ve done bad things. I mean I’m just like everyone else. Do you think there’s anyone alive (“WHO KNEW”) when they were a child didn’t steal something from someone?
V: No, I don’t think so.
Q: Exactly. (“SO I MEAN”) I, in my own experience unfortunately, I happened to steal a comic book, of all things.
V: Mm.
Q: And, unfortunately, it was a very valuable comic book so actually it put me in the category of (having committed a) felony that I got away with.
V: Well done. (laughs) (“NO” “I[T]”)
Q: No, it was not well done —
V: Sure.
Q: — because I spent most of my life feeling horrible about it.
V: (laugh) Yes.
Q: So I ended up actually wanting to get rid of it and thinking, “Well, I’ll give the money to charity.” But then finally I auctioned it off (“SIN”) through Sotheby’s. (“AND THAT”) And some other old comics. And let’s just say I didn’t make one-tenth of what I thought I would make with them. So it was karma getting me — getting me. (“SO” “I”) I’m a big (“BELIEVER”) believer in karma. So the one thing that I really did in my life that I felt was bad that I can remember. I pray I didn’t kill anyone because you wonder sometimes when you see these little children who go out and kill other little children.
V: Mm.
Q: You wonder whatever has possessed them. (“MM”) Or like some of the other famous murder trials that we see these days. (“MM”) What interesting murder trials have you heard about in the last few days, if any?
V: Contemporary ones?
Q: Yes. Recently.
V: Going on right now?
Q: I can’t watch TV.
V: Oh well you haven’t missed much. (laughs) Oh it’s so bad . . . (“NOTHING”)
Q: The only thing I’ve heard vaguely — (“AT” “LIMB”) at APLA someone was saying about someone in the valley whose daughter and her boyfriend killed the mother who worked at Warner Bros. Records or something.
V: Ohhh.
Q: You hear about that?
V: Yes, I did.
Q: Well, that’s sort of movie-related because Warner Bros. is a movie company but (“WHAT”) what did you hear about that?
V: It seems to have been one of these cases where young people get together to conspire to kill their parents with the intention of inheriting the money. (“SO”) Seemed to be.
Q: Was there a lot of money?
V: I don’t know whether a figure was mentioned or not but apparently quite a lot.
Q: So you always wonder — they always say, “Oh I can’t believe it happened. They were such nice people. (“IT’S JUST”) There’s just no way this could have happened.” (“MM”) Isn’t that what they always say?
V: Mm. Oh yes. It makes you wonder.
Q: Of course, you always — it’s like people still are obsessed about O.J. It just — (“I”) I have no idea what to say about any of this except for other things (“I”) I’ve expressed in my book. (“SO”) You know — in terms of overall feelings (“MM”) and impressions. (“THERE’S”) Guilt is something — guilt is a very interesting enigma.
V: Mm.
Q: Because it’s purpose is sort of to make people not do bad things. I mean we instinctively know what is good and bad. And when I went through redemption, which basically was when I realized everything I had done (“HAD BEEN” “WITNE”) personally had been witnessed and observed and was participated in by God, (“UM-HUH”) I mean (“YOU KNOW”) I was pretty upset so the people who’ve done really bad things — because I don’t really think I’ve done really bad things — you know, I talked about that one thing that I stole.
V: Sure.
Q: And (“NO”) I mean I also felt like, (“RUN”) “Well what is this? (“IS LIKE” “YOU KNOW”) Is, like, masturbation bad?” (“NO” “I MEAN”) These are all things that went through my mind. I mean so it was like — and, of course, no one believes that. I mean everyone does it at some point in their life. I mean everyone does it as (“LIKE”) teenagers (“UM-HUH”) or even older if they’re in a bad marriage. You know? (“I MEAN SO”) I don’t know. (“IT’S JUST LIKE” “I GUESS HE’S”) He wants to out everyone.
V: Mm.
Q: And Himself. So (“I”) it’s interesting. I just wonder — I mean I have a feeling (“HE WANTS”) as my book progresses in Hollywood I think — (“I’M”) I don’t really — I’m trying to avoid names (“MM”) but people I interview talk about people’s names. (“SO IT’S LIKE”) It’s almost like — (“WILL YOU”) it’s not the people who are successful that usually (“ARE”) are honest. It’s the people who are disenfranchised like Julia Phillips. It’s the people who have nothing to lose. So, in a way, I have nothing to lose. All of these famous, rich people have nothing to lose — (“I MEAN”) they have a lot to lose.
V: Sure.
Q: Stupid things. Like money. Materialistic things. (“I MEAN”) They’re only alive on Earth for a little while and the alternative is everlasting life.
V: Exactly.
Q: People try to hide their sexuality — they do stupid things to live illusions (“LIKE”) like Norma Jean became Marilyn Monroe —
V: Yes. (“BUT” “SHE”)
Q: — became a myth. (“NO”) It doesn’t matter to God that (“THERE IS”) this real person was trapped behind a facade all her life and died — was murdered or died in agony. I think she was murdered, personally.
V: It’s been mentioned as a possibility.
[2020 UPDATE: TRANSCENDENTAL COMMUNICATION CASES INCLUDING THE VOICE OF MARILYN MONROE VIA DIRECT VOICE PHENOMENA ESTABLISH THAT MARILYN'S DEATH WAS ACCIDENTAL AS ALSO DOCUMENTED BY MARILYN BIOGRAPHER NORMAN MAILER.]
Q: So — and, meanwhile, like one of the clients when I was at the Ruth Webb Agency — I love that name Webb, by the way —
V: (laughs)
Q: — was Mamie Van Doren. And, you know, it’s like (cues start) (“SHE”) she was — (“LIES”) Marilyn Monroe was always sort of in her circle and she was (“LIKE”) the successful one and Mamie was the unsuccessful one. But Mamie always kept hold of who she was, regardless of her lack of huge success. So who do you think God likes more — the honest person or the person who’s unhappy living a lie; who loses that identity (“WHEN” “YOU KNOW”) after they lose this incarnation anyway? (“WHO WOULD YOU”) Who would you rather be with on a Sunday afternoon?
V: (laughs)
Q: I mean it’s hilarious. I’m going to interview Mamie, I’ve decided. One of the voices said to interview Mamie. It didn’t take me long to figure out which one because I only know one Mamie. So I’ll give her a call. I always really liked working with her because she was so comfortable in who she was. (“I LIKED”) Some of the other clients too I’d like to interview. Julie Newmar. I always thought she was wonderful (“MM”) and they were all very nice people. John Carradine is dead now. (“MM”) Abe Vigoda I thought was a very nice man. It’s like all the people that I really liked — (“THEY NEVER” “EVEN THOUGH THEIR”) their careers weren’t always at the pinnacle. They always (“HAS”) were happy and they always (“WOULD H[AVE]”) —
V: The 29th.
Q: Okay. January 29th (1996) psychotherapy session — or should I say hypnotherapy session? (“HY”) Hypno — one hypnotist and one psycho. (small laugh)
V: Oh (GASP) no. Hardly.
Q: No — no, exactly. (“SO”) Okay. So I read you some of those poems that really freaked me out.
V: Yes.
Q: Like — I don’t even remember the titles. Oh but I do remember the one title. How could I ever forget that one title? “Sorry For Jesus.”
V: Mm. (“SO”)
Q: I mean that sort of expressed His feelings about that. (“Mm”) But the other most important poems in this book Sunshine Days and Foggy Nights by James Kavanaugh were “Easy to Replace,” “I Will Not Be Tormented By Love” and “In Times Past.” So He definitely — (“WAS IN A”) He just wasn’t in a happy mood. (“SO UM”) And not only that — I received the, (“HH”) you know, James Kavanaugh — this author has a newsletter, which has a very encouraging poem. But apparently this poet has a lot of problems — manic-depressive problems. (“A[ND]”) I can well understand why — channeling God in this (“WW”) capacity.
V: Sure.
Q: I mean he probably has no idea — (“THAT”) well, every artistic person is channeling God to some extent or other for whatever purposes. One of the purposes of His poems are to let me know God’s feelings.
[2021 UPDATE: READERS SHOULD BE REMINDED THAT MY SPONTANEOUS THOUGHTS AND REACTIONS TO MY CIRCUMSTANCES OFTEN WERE OFTEN HURRIEDLY ARTICULATED AND EXPRESSED POSSIBILITIES AND SPECULATIONS DURING THIS EARLY PERIOD OF MY CASE CHRONOLOGY. I WAS EXPRESSING SUBJECTIVE REASONING OF A PARTICULAR MOMENT. IT WAS THE WAY THAT THE LIBRARY CLERK CHANGED HIS MIND ABOUT LETTING ME HAVE THE DISTURBING POETRY BOOK THAT LED ME TO CONSIDER IF THIS WAS AN INSTANCE OF 'OVERSHADOWING' OR 'THOUGHT TRANSFERENCE.' THERE WAS NO SUBSTANTIATION TO SUPPORT ANY OF THE NEGATIVITY FOUND IN THE POEMS IN RELATION TO MY UNSEEN COLLABORATOR/S AS OF THE FOLLOWING DAY, DAYS, MONTHS, YEARS.]
V: Yes.
Q: On a very personal level. So, unfortunately, James Kavanaugh has to — I mean this tension has to be recreated in this poet’s mind. So the poor guy is like a basketcase without even knowing why or understanding why. (“AND YOU KNOW”) But he’s making beautiful art. (“SO”) I mean I’m sure he’s happy. He hasn’t been able to find his soulmate but not very many people have.
V: Of course.
Q: I think Mighael and I still are soulmates. We are getting along very well. So (“OKAY”) phenomena-wise — okay, today, for example, I was talking to my brother on the phone and a pen started rolling a little bit on my desk. (“SOME” “THEY JUST”) It’s unusual that He let me — makes it that obvious. (“USUALLY IT’S” “YOU KNOW”) Usually it isn’t that obvious. I guess He knew I would talk about it in therapy tonight for my book. (“EVEN THOUGH”) I get so tired of talking about — it sounds like minutia to me. For example — okay, I’ll tell you the songs that I’ve been hearing on the radio. On the way in there was “Six Months in a Leaky Boat” by Split Enz, which actually is from one of my favorite CDs. (“BY” “YOU KNOW”) And I was surprised to hear it because it’s a very little-known song. (“MM”) And, actually, the sister of one of my brother’s old lovers designed the cover for the album (Time and Tide). So there are all these interesting connections that keep cropping up. (“OKAY”) Other songs I heard today include “Father Figure” by George Michael. Have you heard that new song “Jesus To A Child”?
V: I might have seen it. Yes. In the video. (“FOUND IT” “IT’S”)
Q: What’s it like? (“YEAH”)
V: Pretty good. Pretty — stylish.
Q: I can’t watch TV.
V: Well, I don’t like watching very much.
Q: Is there any religious imagery?
V: I think there was. As I remember. (“I WAS”) I think I was in somebody’s house (“AL”) when it was playing. I wasn’t really paying any attention. (“OKAY SO AGAIN”)
Q: “From A Distance” came on again today. (And) “The Rose” — see, He knows what songs push my buttons.
V: Mm.
Q: “The Rose” always gets me. (“MM” “SO I HEARD”) I heard two Bette Midler songs today. (“MM”) I was joking about her movie “Ruthless People.” You know. (“IN TERMS OF”) Anyway, you’ll have to read my book to (“YEAH”) figure it out. (“GET IT”) You probably get it. Let’s see — what else was it that I heard today? “Harmony” by Elton John. All Elton John songs are very — I mean there are all these things in them. In fact, for one tape side I just went through (“TWO”) two lines in each song. They each had exact things about my relationship with Mighael.
V: Right. (“THING” “SONGS” “ESPECIALLY”)
Q: And then you take your songs like “The Bitch Is Back.”
V: Yes. (“I MEAN”) (small laugh)
Q: What can I say? “From A Distance” I told you came on again. I think that they should redo the song. (“THAT SHE”) Bette Midler should redo the song (“AND”) and add the word “Not” — “Not From A Distance.”
V: Yes. (small laugh) (“NO”)
Q: “You’re So Vain.” (“MM” “I JUST CAN’T”) I was talking about that song on one of my cassettes and again “You’re So Vain” came on. “You’re In My Heart” by Rod Stewart. (“MM”) And “Somewhere Out There.” And my friend Fiona called me today. You know how I feel like whenever someone invites me to a movie it’s like ‘now is the time that God wants me to see this particular movie.’
V: Yes.
Q: So she called to invite me to go to see “Persuasion” Thursday night with her so I get to finally see “Persuasion.”
V: Mm.
Q: I’m very happy about that. (“I”) Met some more people who told me that they were the reincarnation of famous people. So I said, “By the way, who are you the reincarnation of, Fiona?” (“AND SHE”) Even though I keep telling her Morgana le Fay. But she said, “Well, I think I’m the reincarnation of Hollywood actress Alice Faye.” So another Fay. She talked about seeing something at a little store near her — (“AA”) what’s it called? Oh, it doesn’t matter. (“WAS IT”) There’s a little store on Laurel Canyon that’s like an English store — oh, Tottenham Court. So apparently she saw (“LIKE”) this paper doll-type thing of Alice Faye and she was trying to decide if she should buy it. She doesn’t know much about Alice Faye but she just has the impression that she’s the reincarnation of Alice Faye. (“AND”) I told her Morgana le Fay. I don’t know if she gets the connection yet.
V: (small laugh)
Q: So I think that was quite funny. So I’m trying to think what else I should tell you about. (“WELL”) It was interesting. I don’t know if I should tell you this or not but (“NO”) in terms of my question mark about whether or not the CIA or Secret Service is tapping my phone and following me. There was a long time I kept seeing the same guy at the gym every day when I was there. And once I took a different route to the locker room and he freaked. He almost jumped on top of me. Well, I’ve been seeing him again this week. Well, I mean — (“OR WH”) what’s today? Monday? I saw him Friday and Monday. And I went at different times. When I went in today around two o’clock he was there. He was already there. And then today when I left at three-thirty he was leaving after I was leaving. And he knows where my locker is there. And his locker was in that same section.
V: Mm. (“SO”)
Q: And he kept — (“AND HE”) plus, he was also, like, when I was doing the abs he was doing the abs. (“SO I”) You really have to wonder if maybe I am his assignment. (“I DID” “USE”) I thought he was the cute one. I don’t know if you noticed on one of my tape transcripts but I said that ‘one of them I think is cute.’ And then the Spirit said, “NO.”
V: (small laugh) (“WELL I DID”)
Q: There was one time when I took a good look at him and he really isn’t cute. He’s got a good body, though. (“BUT”) He’s really not cute so Mighael was right.
V: (small laugh)
Q: But, you know, I mean — also, when I was interviewing my friend Terrance there was another semi-naked jogger.
V: Mm.
Q: Needless to say. And, not only that, (“WHEN I WENT”) when I went to the antique store later in that same area the same jogger was there.
V: Really?
Q: So it’s like I keep saying — I think Mighael’s trying to see what I’ll think even.
V: (small laugh)
Q: It’s like if I even think of screwing him He’ll get mad. (“YOU KNOW” “IT’S SCARY”) It’s really scary. I keep telling Him, “I’m not interested.”
V: Mm.
Q: “I’m not interested.” (“MM”) And He keeps wanting — like a little child (“WHO”) still wants to see just how faithful you are. So I guess my book will be published when He thinks I’m spiritually ready, which is a very scary thought. (“BECAUSE” “I DON’T”) Personally, (“IF”) if I were judging myself I don’t think I would ever be spiritually ready for this one.
V: (small laugh) Exactly. (“HHHH”)
Q: So I don’t know. It might be interesting just to hear some of your feedback, though — (“HAVING”) having read now a portion of the book in terms of what do you think. I mean what are some of your impressions? (“MIN” “DO YOU”) Do you think I am Son of Man? Or do you think that’s a possibility?
V: The impression I gained is of somebody searching for truth.
Q: Right.
V: Searching for the reality behind experience.
Q: Right.
V: Asking questions. Discussing with people. Wanting to find a definitive answer. (“WW” “YOU KNOW IT”)
Q: I mean it’s like if you believe in Son of Man — I don’t think I’ve ever asked you your religion. (“ARE YOU”) What are you? Christian? (“OR”)
V: Well, that’s —
Q: Non-denominational Christian?
V: That would take a long time for me to discuss my (“RIGHT”) views about spirituality —
Q: Right.
V: — and all that sort of thing. I would say that I’m aware of the spiritual dimension of the human being and the needs and fulfillments of that. I would reject dogmatism of any kind. I would reject revelation. I would tend to endorse authenticity within religious and spiritual experiences. (“YEAH”)
Q: Yeah. Well, I showed you my medallion of the god (Amun-) Ra who looks just like me. So in my book one of my concepts is that the old gods were just like people and, in fact, each person walking the face of the Earth is a god. And where they are in terms of the hierarchy of godliness is up to God (“YEN”) to decide. So that probably fits in with your basic over-all concept, much of which I’m sure is unexpressible. But, in terms of Son of Man, I mean (“T”) what you’re telling me is (“IS”) sort of encouraging because I would be a good candidate for Son of Man in your religion —
V: Mm. (“MM”)
Q: — since you don’t believe in dogmatism.
V: Mm. Absolutely.
Q: You know — that he would be somebody totally normal.
V: Yes. (“THAT’S RIGHT”)
Q: And he would be one of us because we’re each an aspect of God.
V: Exactly.
Q: So (“ANYWAY”) I wonder about the Mabus business. I mean the Spirit voice did say “NO” unless I’m misinterpreting it. I don’t know. Who do you think is the antichrist? Who would you think is the antichrist?
V: I find it difficult to say it’s one particular person. (“THE LAST”)
Q: The last time I was trying to figure it out I said, “Maybe it’s television.”
V: (small laugh)
Q: But now people keep — whenever I say this to people, they always say, “Oh no. Television is very educational and informative.” Yes, it is to a certain extent. (“BUT I GUESS”) Like with everything it’s a matter of not overdoing it.
V: Mm. (“THE GIFT”)
Q: Television is educational but if you overdo it like anything it becomes a negative factor in someone’s life. But in terms of — (“OKAY”) so here I am, Son of Man. I showed you my photographs. There’s no way of really confirming anything except maybe the Declaration of Independence. I think that’s very confirmable. I’m not quite sure about the other ones. Well, I guess they could do a Carbon-13 test on the Ark to find out. And, if I have the Declaration of Independence and the Ark of the Covenant, (“THEN”) that would have to be the Holy Grail too. (“ON IT” “JUST”) Makes sense. (“YOU KNOW” “THAT IT WOULD BE THE SAME” “THAT DID”) I would have it too. (“I MEAN”) So I don’t know. I’m just trying to figure out — okay, so here I am, Son of Man, (“IS”) in the world fulfilling all the prophecies for Son of Man. (“AND”) Proving God’s existence in His book, I guess. (“IF PEOPLE”) I hope. Because apparently there are different potential paths for mankind. And they all have a happy ending because everyone gets eternal life. (“BUT”) Exactly what mankind has to go through in the next few years — I mean let’s hope they’re not as bad as the plagues (“NN”) in the Bible.
V: Yes.
Q: And they could be.
V: Mm. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: He’s let me know. Like wherever I go I see car accidents, floods — (“NO”) people die all around me. I mean it’s really unusual. (“SO”) And, again, it’s not like He’s doing bad things to people around me. It’s just that I’m at the center of the synchronicity (“MM”) and everything is planned — (“SO THESE”) things were all planned to reveal His existence.
V: Mm.
Q: And He isn’t doing it like (He does with) Sai Baba because Americans would laugh if they saw something materialize in front of them. They would know it was something done with mirrors. David Copperfield.
V: Yes. (laughs) (WHEEZE)
Q: Or Siegfried and Roy. (“YOU KNOW IT’S LIKE” “HE WOULD — HE WOULD” “I’M SURE HE’S”) Having me go out and go shopping like Alicia Silverstein in “Clueless.” (“YOU KNOW” “AND THAT’S WHAT”) That’s what America deserves — a Jesus Christ who goes shopping.
V: (small laugh) It would be quite appropriate really.
Q: Exactly. (“NO”) A Jesus Christ (“WHO”) who worked very hard on more than one hundred Paramount movies and no one at Paramount will give him the time of day. From Sherry Lansing to Allison Jackson. And notice in both of her names the word son? There was also a Jackson Browne song on the radio but I can’t remember which one. (“HONEY”) People are going to think, “Oh, that’s stupid. God wouldn’t do these stupid things to prove He exists.” (“WELL”) What do you think, David? (“I MEAN IT”) There’s an awful lot in my book and I did it very quickly. I did this all I think since — (“WHEN”) when did I start? (“OKAY”) I came back at the end of August and then (after my first three frantic weeks of work) there was a month when I didn’t even dare touch the book because I wasn’t sure exactly what was going on. So I didn’t really start this book until October. (“AND” “YOU KNOW”) As you see, I have 1,500 pages — enough for anyone to imagine. These are all based on microcassettes. I show all the parallels (“LIKE”) from — (“YOU KNOW LIKE” “LIKE”) what is it — the first organism with the bell shape. (“I MEAN”) It seems very obvious to me. (“I”) If I read this book I would believe it. But people don’t want to believe it. (“ME”) They don’t want to have to give their money to charity in order to have everlasting life.
V: That’s right.
Q: See. (“THEY” “THEY”) They want to keep their money. (“AND”) They have enough money. Jim Carrey has how many millions of dollars? Does he need that money? Do any of them need that money? (“I MEAN THEY COULD”) They could start charities with it. I mean do they really think (“THEY’RE”) they’re doing a service to mankind by getting together and singing “Feed the world” (“YOU KNOW ONCE”) every ten years? I mean is this enough giving back? And, of course, I have to ask these questions. “The bitch is back.” (“SO TO SPEAK”)
V: Yes. (small laugh) (“YOU KNOW SO” “I — I MEAN”)
Q: And I don’t really appreciate having to do this. Well, actually I do. I don’t know. I guess I’ll appreciate it more — (“I”) I don’t really want to give up my life — I don’t really want to be any kind of celebrity or anything. And, of course, when my book is published, (“I”) I mean I definitely will be (“IN”) creating some controversy. And I don’t really want that. But I really want what’s best for everybody. So — I don’t know. But I mean I just think that (“IT’S LIKE”) people’s egos are not letting them — (“I MEAN PEO[PL]E”) people (“IS TO”) witness phenomena. Their ego is such that (“IT WILL NOT”) they will not let themselves believe it.
V: Mm. (“THEY DON’T WANT”)
Q: It’s like a war. (“MM”) (“IT’S LIKE A WAR”) In fact, in that song “From A Distance,” if you really listen closely to some of the lyrics, it’s like a war against mankind and God. It really is. And in that book Love’s Awakening it’s also like a war against people’s egos (“UM-HUH”) and God’s ego in terms of doing what’s best for all of mankind. (“PEOPLE” “I GUESS”) I guess the big question is if there’s a part of people — consciousness — (“THAT”) they’re afraid that (“THAT THEY’LL”) when they die (“THEY”) they won’t still be themselves. They’ll just become part of God. And I’m here to tell them that isn’t the case. However — (“YOU KNOW”) it’s like however (“IF YOU DON’T”) if you can’t prove your love while you’re alive you might not have everlasting life. So that’s like a major thing to say to someone. (“YES”) So in order for them to have everlasting life they have to believe in me. (“SO IT’S”) We’re back to Jesus — but not the reincarnation of the original Jesus because He never existed in the way the Bible depicts Him. It’s back to the original ‘Jesus,’ Bel-Marduk, alias the god (Amun-) Ra. So — (“AND I GUESS I’M”) I guess it’s some kind of Father/son relationship because of all the “son”s.
V: Mm.
Q: And, in fact, even in (“IN THE”) those porno comic ads that I saw, in one of the little boxes there was a picture of — his head was cut off but a man with a “DAD” tattoo was having oral sex with the character who looked like me.
V: Mm.
Q: So I don’t know what level people want to take this on. Some days I’m very horny and think, “Oh I might like that.” Other days, I just, “No, I don’t really like that. (“I JUST WANT”) I don’t really want a relationship. I just want to be — (“I JUST”) would want to snuggle with someone once in a while.” (“IN” “SO IT’S LIKE”) I have all these ambivalent feelings, myself.
V: (small laugh)
Q: And I don’t know what to make of any of them. (“MM” “SO IT’S LIKE”) It’s like I’m the perfect one to write this stupid book — this stupid, great book —
V: Yes. (small laugh)
Q: — that even I can’t decide about. I mean I have trouble believing what I’m telling you. (I glance at tape recorder) I mean oh my goodness — oh okay. Well, the tape recorder’s still going. You never know (“WHAT”) what parts He likes and what parts He doesn’t like as you know from past experiences. (“FUENTES” “SO I MEAN” “AND NOTICE” “YOU” “NO”) Notice you haven’t heard any beeps today at all. Because it used to start — when I started them (“YY”) there were beeps. (“LIKE”) Beginning beeps and ending beeps. There will be ending beeps. (“MM”) But it’s not beeping as much.
V: Right.
Q: So in a way you’ve witnessed some of the phenomena.
V: Mm.
Q: From the salt on the counter (“UM-HUH”) to Isabel.
V: Yes.
Q: And when I asked you today about your religion and what you thought about me you still didn’t give a very firm answer. (“SO IT’S LIKE” “I MEAN”) God is testing you too.
V: (Of) course.
Q: And I don’t think He’s very happy with you so far. I mean I’m just being honest with you.
V: Sure.
Q: I don’t think He’s happy with anyone. (“I MEAN” “I DON’T THINK HE’S” “AND I THINK”) Right now He’s okay with me. But, you know, a week ago that wasn’t the case.
V: (small laugh) Right. (“SO I MEAN”)
Q: It’s a very — (“WELL THIS IS”) basically, what He’s doing over-all is a very healthy thing — (“HE’S”) attempting His own mental health too because if He is operating in everyone’s subconscious mind He’s partly responsible. So He has to take some responsibility for His actions too. (“BUT”) This is the most difficult part of it — (“IS”) trying to exactly figure out how much is His responsibility and how much is our responsibility because He has a collaboration (“FROM”) with each person. So I don’t know if that means that He can make everything have a happy ending like in a fairy tale. Or if — well, I don’t think He can because in the original Bible that would never have happened at all if that were the case. So, obviously, (“IT’S LIKE A B[IG]”) it’s like either a chess game or a war or however you want to see it with God’s (“MM”) Mind, (“WHICH IS LIKE”) which is in everything: every living thing, tree, insect, human being, alien from the planet Saturn, politician. (“YOU KNOW”) And it’s like He wants to bring a new love and awareness in the world. And if it doesn’t happen — well, you know. I don’t have to say. You can just read Nostradamus. And notice his name: nostra-dam(n) us.
V: Yes. (I MEAN”)
Q: There are all these different levels. Probably what you should read too is the original Bell Witch case book because that has some interesting things about God and Jesus in it too. So (“UM”) — but, again, (“IT’S” “AGA”) I feel like I have understanding and clarity in terms of God is love, yes, (“UM-HUH”) but He also has other motivations too. I love His sense of humor. (“UM-HUH”) Like last week I was telling you — or two weeks ago I was telling you — I was trying to make sense of what the pyramids were there for because I always felt (“THEY”RE LIKE”) they were like markers of some kind (“MM”) or helped people navigate the UFOs or something like that. (“OR”) Maybe it was (“RA[DIO]”) picking up radio (“MM”) signals. So maybe He’ll tell me what that is by saying, ‘No — no — yes’ or whatever. (“BUT I WAS”) Last time, I was (“SUCH BIZARRE”) thinking, “Well maybe they’re like giant movie screens.” Because I know that they were overlaid with limestone.
V: Mm.
Q: He said, “NUT.” (“SO I MEAN”) It’s encouraging that He has a sense of humor.
V: Yes.
Q: And — He is very loving. It’s just that (“I”) I learned my lesson about not — (“EVIL”) He wants everyone to be honest. Again, honesty is the most important thing in terms of Godliness.
V: Yes.
Q: So it makes it a lot easier for me, knowing that I can be honest. I mean there are still things that I don’t want to talk about. (“BUT”) Let’s just say if push came to shove I would talk about them. I mean I’ve done bad things. I mean I’m just like everyone else. Do you think there’s anyone alive (“WHO KNEW”) when they were a child didn’t steal something from someone?
V: No, I don’t think so.
Q: Exactly. (“SO I MEAN”) I, in my own experience unfortunately, I happened to steal a comic book, of all things.
V: Mm.
Q: And, unfortunately, it was a very valuable comic book so actually it put me in the category of (having committed a) felony that I got away with.
V: Well done. (laughs) (“NO” “I[T]”)
Q: No, it was not well done —
V: Sure.
Q: — because I spent most of my life feeling horrible about it.
V: (laugh) Yes.
Q: So I ended up actually wanting to get rid of it and thinking, “Well, I’ll give the money to charity.” But then finally I auctioned it off (“SIN”) through Sotheby’s. (“AND THAT”) And some other old comics. And let’s just say I didn’t make one-tenth of what I thought I would make with them. So it was karma getting me — getting me. (“SO” “I”) I’m a big (“BELIEVER”) believer in karma. So the one thing that I really did in my life that I felt was bad that I can remember. I pray I didn’t kill anyone because you wonder sometimes when you see these little children who go out and kill other little children.
V: Mm.
Q: You wonder whatever has possessed them. (“MM”) Or like some of the other famous murder trials that we see these days. (“MM”) What interesting murder trials have you heard about in the last few days, if any?
V: Contemporary ones?
Q: Yes. Recently.
V: Going on right now?
Q: I can’t watch TV.
V: Oh well you haven’t missed much. (laughs) Oh it’s so bad . . . (“NOTHING”)
Q: The only thing I’ve heard vaguely — (“AT” “LIMB”) at APLA someone was saying about someone in the valley whose daughter and her boyfriend killed the mother who worked at Warner Bros. Records or something.
V: Ohhh.
Q: You hear about that?
V: Yes, I did.
Q: Well, that’s sort of movie-related because Warner Bros. is a movie company but (“WHAT”) what did you hear about that?
V: It seems to have been one of these cases where young people get together to conspire to kill their parents with the intention of inheriting the money. (“SO”) Seemed to be.
Q: Was there a lot of money?
V: I don’t know whether a figure was mentioned or not but apparently quite a lot.
Q: So you always wonder — they always say, “Oh I can’t believe it happened. They were such nice people. (“IT’S JUST”) There’s just no way this could have happened.” (“MM”) Isn’t that what they always say?
V: Mm. Oh yes. It makes you wonder.
Q: Of course, you always — it’s like people still are obsessed about O.J. It just — (“I”) I have no idea what to say about any of this except for other things (“I”) I’ve expressed in my book. (“SO”) You know — in terms of overall feelings (“MM”) and impressions. (“THERE’S”) Guilt is something — guilt is a very interesting enigma.
V: Mm.
Q: Because it’s purpose is sort of to make people not do bad things. I mean we instinctively know what is good and bad. And when I went through redemption, which basically was when I realized everything I had done (“HAD BEEN” “WITNE”) personally had been witnessed and observed and was participated in by God, (“UM-HUH”) I mean (“YOU KNOW”) I was pretty upset so the people who’ve done really bad things — because I don’t really think I’ve done really bad things — you know, I talked about that one thing that I stole.
V: Sure.
Q: And (“NO”) I mean I also felt like, (“RUN”) “Well what is this? (“IS LIKE” “YOU KNOW”) Is, like, masturbation bad?” (“NO” “I MEAN”) These are all things that went through my mind. I mean so it was like — and, of course, no one believes that. I mean everyone does it at some point in their life. I mean everyone does it as (“LIKE”) teenagers (“UM-HUH”) or even older if they’re in a bad marriage. You know? (“I MEAN SO”) I don’t know. (“IT’S JUST LIKE” “I GUESS HE’S”) He wants to out everyone.
V: Mm.
Q: And Himself. So (“I”) it’s interesting. I just wonder — I mean I have a feeling (“HE WANTS”) as my book progresses in Hollywood I think — (“I’M”) I don’t really — I’m trying to avoid names (“MM”) but people I interview talk about people’s names. (“SO IT’S LIKE”) It’s almost like — (“WILL YOU”) it’s not the people who are successful that usually (“ARE”) are honest. It’s the people who are disenfranchised like Julia Phillips. It’s the people who have nothing to lose. So, in a way, I have nothing to lose. All of these famous, rich people have nothing to lose — (“I MEAN”) they have a lot to lose.
V: Sure.
Q: Stupid things. Like money. Materialistic things. (“I MEAN”) They’re only alive on Earth for a little while and the alternative is everlasting life.
V: Exactly.
Q: People try to hide their sexuality — they do stupid things to live illusions (“LIKE”) like Norma Jean became Marilyn Monroe —
V: Yes. (“BUT” “SHE”)
Q: — became a myth. (“NO”) It doesn’t matter to God that (“THERE IS”) this real person was trapped behind a facade all her life and died — was murdered or died in agony. I think she was murdered, personally.
V: It’s been mentioned as a possibility.
[2020 UPDATE: TRANSCENDENTAL COMMUNICATION CASES INCLUDING THE VOICE OF MARILYN MONROE VIA DIRECT VOICE PHENOMENA ESTABLISH THAT MARILYN'S DEATH WAS ACCIDENTAL AS ALSO DOCUMENTED BY MARILYN BIOGRAPHER NORMAN MAILER.]
Q: So — and, meanwhile, like one of the clients when I was at the Ruth Webb Agency — I love that name Webb, by the way —
V: (laughs)
Q: — was Mamie Van Doren. And, you know, it’s like (cues start) (“SHE”) she was — (“LIES”) Marilyn Monroe was always sort of in her circle and she was (“LIKE”) the successful one and Mamie was the unsuccessful one. But Mamie always kept hold of who she was, regardless of her lack of huge success. So who do you think God likes more — the honest person or the person who’s unhappy living a lie; who loses that identity (“WHEN” “YOU KNOW”) after they lose this incarnation anyway? (“WHO WOULD YOU”) Who would you rather be with on a Sunday afternoon?
V: (laughs)
Q: I mean it’s hilarious. I’m going to interview Mamie, I’ve decided. One of the voices said to interview Mamie. It didn’t take me long to figure out which one because I only know one Mamie. So I’ll give her a call. I always really liked working with her because she was so comfortable in who she was. (“I LIKED”) Some of the other clients too I’d like to interview. Julie Newmar. I always thought she was wonderful (“MM”) and they were all very nice people. John Carradine is dead now. (“MM”) Abe Vigoda I thought was a very nice man. It’s like all the people that I really liked — (“THEY NEVER” “EVEN THOUGH THEIR”) their careers weren’t always at the pinnacle. They always (“HAS”) were happy and they always (“WOULD H[AVE]”) —
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