INTERVIEW — TAPE #59, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
L: Ellen Russell
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE WAS A TECHNICAL MALFUNCTION WITH THE LISTENING DEVICE OF MY TAPE RECORDER AS I BEGAN RECORDING THIS SIDE.)
L: It hasn’t really anything to do with your book.
Q: What?
L: That.
Q: Yes, it does. I mean — no, (“YOU KNOW”) it’s sort of my own biography. So I’m just saying that, basically, for each of us it’s the person who provides for us — and all those years of (“LIKE”) the troll villages (toys) at Christmas, (“AND”) the bicycles. Even though you didn’t have much money, (“YOU”) you always made sure that we were taken care of.
L: Well, that’s what —
Q: Even though you didn’t have — (“YOU KNOW” “O”)
L: Honey — (“I”)
Q: Like much to wear or — (“YEAH I”)
L: I was happy. Goodness. I mean I — I thought it was —
Q: Yes, but you were so full of fear of making ends meet and —
L: Well, of course, but I’m sure lots of —
Q: — losing your job.
L: Lots of people are.
Q: Not if they just give their lives over to God.
L: Well, I don’t know — what, honey?
Q: You know — you don’t have to feel fear. You just say, “I surrender my life and will to God.” And then everything just happens.
L: That’s wonderful.
Q: (That’s) sort of the theme of my book.
L: That’s nice. (“MEMBER”) Remember — I always thought we were rich. The only thing that we weren’t rich in was money.
Q: I never really thought about money as a child.
L: Well, of course not. You didn’t have to. (“UM-HUH” “BUT WHEN YOU”)
Q: Looking back, I realize we didn’t have anything, did we?
L: Well, we certainly did.
Q: Right. (“EVERY”) But I mean in terms of money.
L: Wait a second. (“WHEN”) When you were — (small laugh)
Q: We had enough.
L: You didn’t have to worry when you were little, right?
Q: Right.
L: When did you really — you n(ever) — I — (small laugh) now you kids never had to worry until you were in your 20s. And then you really didn’t have to worry about money. Michael was the one that, at 22, started having to worry because he was on his own by his own —
Q: Well, that was his choice.
L: But I mean gee whiz. (“WELL HE GOT”)
Q: And, plus, he got his job the week after he graduated so that was good. That was very fortunate.
L: Well, I don’t think it was quite “the week.”
Q: Yes. I got the call at home. Remember? It was one week after he graduated.
L: Well, if you say so. I mean I don’t — (“I” “MEMBER”)
Q: You know. Tom Wilhite.
L: Yeah, I remember. He had to write something. It couldn’t have been one week because he had to write something first.
Q: No. But the initial call came in then is what I’m saying.
L: Oh. For him to do some work on it.
Q: Well, no. He sent out his resume to all the major studios after he graduated.
L: Yes, but before he got his job he had to write something.
Q: Right. But I’m just saying that the call — I remember the call came in because it was one week after he graduated.
L: Oh well yeah but he didn’t have the job then.
Q: No, but he was called in for an interview.
L: Well, yeah, that’s correct.
Q: And it led to the job.
L: Well yeah.
Q: Most people struggle for months and years to find “the right job.” I couldn’t get work anywhere.
L: Mark —
Q: I mean in the film industry.
L: You didn’t try.
Q: Yes, I tried. Are you kidding? I tried.
L: I don’t remember you ever trying.
Q: I contacted every story department for story analysis work.
L: I never —
Q: I even wrote samples for Pat Betz at NBC.
L: Well, I don’t remember.
Q: I interviewed with John Byers at Columbia.
L: Well, I don’t remember that.
Q: I sent samples all over town.
L: I don’t remember you —
Q: You wouldn’t remember because you weren’t involved in getting the jobs.
L: Yeah, but I listened to everything you kids had to say.
Q: Well, you can’t remember everything.
L: Well, I can certainly — (small laugh) well, I know.
Q: I mean I struggled to get a job. I had to struggle to get a job and, luckily, I was working part-time as a story analyst for Marty Ingels when Ruth hired me to be Mickey Rooney’s assistant and eventually that became a talent agency job and I was lucky to have that job. I mean I really enjoyed it —
L: Well, Mark, you were just a little tiny baby. And you couldn’t — remem(ber) —
Q: Well, I was 23 — (“OR TWO”) 22/23.
L: Well, (“WELL”) — (small laugh) (“RE”) recently. I mean you can’t expect to go out and — unless you’re — you know that one in a million. I mean it’s just — good grief. I mean I can remember having the door slammed in my face lots of times.
Q: Right.
L: I mean that’s what kind of makes you fearful if you have obligations. I mean if it wasn’t — oh well.
Q: So, anyway, have you read any more of the book? What’s your response so far?
L: I haven’t —
Q: How much have you read? You’re skipping around — I know that.
L: Well, I haven’t really read — because I’ve been kind of under the weather.
Q: What’s wrong?
L: Well, no, I’m fine now. I don’t know what was wrong. But — (“NO”) pick it up — No, I still haven’t read —
Q: What do you mean you “don’t know what was wrong”?
L: Well, honey, I got better.
Q: I know but what was wrong? How would you describe it? ([WHISPER] “OH I — I”)
L: I don’t know. I had a little touch of the flu or something. (“YEAH” “SO”)
Q: So did Michael. But that could be anything — flu — ‘flu’ is sort of a question mark to begin with.
L: Well, yeah, but poor — you know where Michael went. I mean it must have been bitter cold up there. (small laugh)
Q: Well yeah.
L: You realize what kind of weather —
Q: Well, his room’s heated, though.
L: Well, I know but your body just can’t go into those conditions (“UN”) un — I mean you have to be acclimatized to things like (that) — I mean, jeese, I mean his little body from Southern California when it was practically summer — he had to go up there in that cold and ohhhh. (“SO”) Where’d he — I don’t know where’d he — is it close to Salt Lake? Well, anyway, I know it was terrible weather. Terrible.
Q: So what interviews did you enjoy the most so far — that you have read?
L: Well, I haven’t read them all.
Q: You said you read one of yours.
L: Well yeah — well, no, I didn’t read it word for word. I just looked at what I said. There are so many “um-huhs” — oh, I read a little bit of your psychotherapy with — not the psychiatrist; the other one.
Q: Oh, the hypnotherapist.
L: A little bit. Just a little bit of — and all I see is ‘uh-huh uh-huh.’
Q: Him going, “Hmm.” (“UH-HUH”) Right. (“HHH” “UH-HUH” “WELL THEY’RE”) They’re supposed to listen. (“BUT”)
L: But I did like that — no, but there — I saw one part where he asked you what goal you wanted to attain. (“AND WHAT” “I”) I didn’t read on from there but, so, he did ask you.
Q: And I answered the question. (“O”)
L: See, I haven’t read that. (“SO”)
Q: You should have read on.
L: Well, maybe I did read on. (“I — I”) What did you say? I can’t remember.
Q: I can’t remember either.
L: Well, I see — (laughs) I mean —
Q: I can’t memorize it.
L: — obviously.
Q: [With] a 1,300-page book you just can’t memorize everything. (“WELL NO”) I don’t remember exactly what I said but I’m sure it had something to do with finishing my book and —
L: I don’t think so. I think —
Q: — doing whatever’s best for God.
L: Oh, yes, I think you did say — no, well, I don’t know. There was so much God brought in there so many different times. But I mean I’ve never seen so many “Hmm. Hmm.”
Q: Well, you know, (“I FIG”) I figured out now after doing a lot of work for the book (“THAT” “LITTLE”) a lot of them I think were actually (“LITTLE”) Mighael going ‘Hmm.’ (“BIG”)
L: Oh (“OR”) Mark.
Q: No. I’m serious.
L: That was a doctor. (“ME”) Well, when —
Q: He fills in the blank spaces —
L: Can I say something?
Q: — and that’s one of the things He says.
L: Don’t get angry but if I was a — (small laugh) hypnotherapist or anyone — anyone — and some doofus was sitting there spouting what you spout — (“I” “WILLIA[M]” “ME”) you know — what are you going to say? (“GGG”) Going to say, “Oh right on.” You’re going to say, “Mmm.” Especially if you’re a — (small laugh) he’s there to help you. For heaven’s sake, Mark.
Q: Oh, you don’t have them — you know, I transcribed my most recent hypnotherapy session with him and so (“II”) I’ll give that to you at some point to read.
L: Oh, that’s okay. (“THAT’S MUCH” “THAT’S”)
Q: That’s much more informative and enlightening. (“TH[E] ON[L]Y”)
L: There’s only one thing that I want to hear. I want to hear when you pop in (“WWWI”) with — oh what do you call it?
Q: What?
L: Spirit or — oh God, how could I forget? What do you call that thing that where he says word —
Q: Oh. “Spirit voice heard on tape here.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS REFERS TO MY ORGANIZATION OF THE SPIRIT MESSAGES IN THE ORIGINAL DRAFTS OF THE BOOK MANUSCRIPT.)
L: Oh yeah. I want to hear that.
Q: You mean the tapes?
L: Has anybody heard any of those things?
Q: Sure. (“WHO”) Michael has. James has. Mark Kostabi has. (“MY”) Therapist had.
L: Would they say that they heard him?
Q: Well, yeah. (“BUT”)
L: Is someone other than you — (“THEY”)
Q: They try to find ways to explain them away. They desperately try to find any way they can to explain them away. For example, my ex-therapist kept saying, “Well, it sounds just like you.” (“BUT”) But she knew I hadn’t said that — “OH WE SNICKER” — about the book because she would have remembered that. (“SO”) There are unarguable — even Andy. I played it — I went to a screening of the movie “Martha” at the Directors Guild and at the end of the tape (K) I said, (“WELL”) “Mighael, say something here” — no, that was another time. No, he just said “SMART” and you could hear it very clearly on the tape so I played that for Andy and he said, “No, that’s Michael saying ‘Mark.’ (“AND”) Even Michael now thinks that it’s himself saying “Mark” but if you’ll listen to the tape —
L: Well, I’m sure it is.
Q: — you can hear it very clearly in a different tone other than mine saying “SMART.”
L: (sighs)
Q: Exactly. (“THAT’S WHAT PEOP”) People just don’t want to believe it. (“WELL”)
L: I guess it’s only important if you believe it but I wouldn’t —
Q: Because —
L: — try to go out — maybe it’s just for your ears only and I wouldn’t — I mean if it’s there (“THEN”) then people will recognize it. (“NO”)
Q: Andy said today that he thinks that maybe my book will be published posthumously. And I hope not because I would like to see the finished product after doing all this work.
L: Well, what does it — does that mean you’re supposed to croak pretty soon or what?
Q: No, I’m just saying that’s what Andy said. I don’t think I’m ever going to croak, personally. I think that God’s going to make an exception for me.
L: Ohhh well —
Q: And take me away to his sparry palace. (“O”) Probably to have sex but sex is not the most important thing in my life. I’ve realized working on the book that —
L: Mark, I hope you don’t say —
Q: — it’s very fulfilling to work on this book.
L: — things like that. Mark.
Q: What?
L: God’s going to take you away to His what palace?
Q: Sparry.
L: Sparry? What is that?
Q: I read it in The House of Russell.
L: I don’t know what sparry is. And to have sex — who’s He going to have sex with?
Q: Me.
L: With yourself?
Q: Um-huh.
L: Well, you don’t have to go to God to do that. All you got to go in and diddle.
Q: No, I’m saying that —
L: Good grief.
Q: I’m saying that I think He wants me.
L: Mark.
Q: I know. (“I KNOW”)
L: Totally lost it. (“I MEAN I”)
Q: There’s no accounting for taste.
L: Well, Mark, there’s no accounting for you.
Q: I know. (“I”)
L: And it’s too bad. (“BUT”) I wish I could help you plan your life.
Q: No, I just was saying that sex is not that important to me. (“WE KNEW”) I was reading —
L: Well, honey, it’s not important to a lot of people.
Q: — these gay poems and one said how (“YOU KNOW” “HE WOULD”) this one poet said that basically he would believe in God — it had something to do with oral sex. I can’t remember exactly what it said. (“BUT” “YOU KNOW I MEAN” “THERE’S O”) I mean sex is fine. There is a place for that. I mean I can’t see spending a whole century having sex. (“LIKE”) It says (that) in Mark Twain’s book. It’s a nice thought. (“I”) I guess — well, there are times when I’m feeling in a very passionate state. Then, I can buy it. But right now —
L: When you’re in a passionate state go out —
Q: — but right now I feel like there’s nothing better than working on my book. (“I THINK”) That to me is like really good sex.
L: Take it from me, Mark, sex is so totally over-rated.
Q: No, that’s what I’m saying.
L: I don’t know about men. (“BUT”)
Q: Unless it’s with the right person.
L: Sex — (“IT HA[S]”) it has to be with — right.
Q: Your soulmate.
L: Well, it doesn’t have to be the soulmate. I mean I’m not even saying it has to be with someone — (“YOU KNOW”) I mean I had a little fling with Bud. I mean it was great. You know — it lasted not very long. You can’t — see, that’s the difference between men and women. I could have gone out with Bud and really (“YOU KNOW”) liked him. But men do not go around with women very long unless something happened because (“YOU KNOW” “WH”) when a man and woman get together — (“WELL”) I guess now men too — I don’t know — but it’s usually — you don’t keep seeing someone unless there’s an attraction there. If you’re normal. (“WELL” “I MEAN” “WH” “I’M”)
Q: These are all ba(sic) — we all know these things.
L: Well, all I know is I just — (“I CA[N’T]”)
Q: Any other family secrets while you’re at it? My horoscope said today I was going to learn some family secrets.
L: Honey, you know I have no secrets. (“EVERYTHING I”) My life is an open book. I have no secrets.
Q: Well, read the interviews with you and with Paul (“ABOUT”) about that. I think you’ll find it very interesting. (“WELL I READ” “I”)
L: I read that. (“DIDN’T MAKE IT”) How many interviews — (“HAVE”)
Q: Did you read his interviews — with Paul? (“HE”) Doesn’t he make it seem like — (“WHO”)
L: Whose interview?
Q: Paul.
L: Well, I read that — I mean I didn’t read it verbatim but I read part (“WE” “WHERE HE”) where you called him (“AND”) and he said, “I thought I told you, you know, about Bob.” (“AND HE TA”) And Paul talked about some sort of eye medicine. (“IS THAT”) Is that the one you’re talking about?
Q: I don’t remember.
L: And then you asked him about some guy. I haven’t read this part yet — about some bar and you asked about Red. He said — as I said I didn’t read it verbatim. I just skipped —
Q: He said he was worried about Boys Club. (“OH”)
L: Well, no, I didn’t read that but he said he had some friends down in Los Angeles who had a bar.
Q: That sounds like him. (“YEP” “NO” “WAY”)
L: Mark, you’re the one — it’s your book, for God’s sake.
Q: I’m just saying why don’t you read all of Paul’s interviews because he makes it seem like there is definitely something he’s trying to hide.
L: Well, I’m sure he has lots of his past to hide.
Q: No, I mean — (“YOU KNOW OUR”) but also — you know what I also came upon in the scrapbooks? (“NO”) There were (“LIKE”) three little color baby photos.
L: Three little what? (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: Color snapshots of us as newborn babies.
L: Yeah.
Q: Three. Not two. Not four. But three.
L: So?
Q: So? I mean it just makes you wonder. Could we have been triplets? (pause) Even though it says twin —
L: Honey, I would —
Q: — on our certificate of live birth.
L: Is that the one where you have the little blue suits on?
Q: I can’t remember.
L: Oh well.
Q: I think so. It was color.
L: Of course it was.
Q: But there were three.
L: You show me the third one. You show me the third one and — you show me that third snapshot, Mark.
Q: What do you mean? I have three snapshots.
L: You bring it over and you show me.
Q: Okay.
L: And if it is — (pause)
Q: No, I definitely — I have three —
L: — I’ll give you a rational expla(nation) because, Mark, I know exactly what pictures are in there.
Q: I have three.
L: Well, who’s the third one?
Q: That’s what I want to know. I definitely have three. (“O”) They look like they were hospital-taken or something.
L: You never had any pictures taken in a hospital.
Q: Well, no, I’m just saying — (“IT LOOKED”) it was not a Polaroid. It was not like the other photos.
L: Well, the other photos were not Po(laroid) — honey, when you were a baby — Mark —
Q: These were like passport-type photos.
L: Mark —
Q: They were color.
L: — you’re crazy.
Q: They were different from all the other ones — no, I have the photos here.
L: Mark, they didn’t have Polaroids back when you were — (“THAT’S WHAT I’M SAY”)
Q: I’m saying they — these were not. That’s what I’m saying. I’m saying all the other photos are big square-shaped and these are much more rectangular. (“UH” “I”) They’re color and they look different.
L: Mark —
Q: And there’s three of them.
L: Mark, well, I don’t know. I know everything that’s in there. You’d have to show it to me. (“I” “I HA[VE]”)
Q: I made copies of them, in fact. So — no, I can show you.
L: Mark, when are you going to go out and get a job so, you know, God won’t have to take care of you and worry about you?
Q: I have plenty of money in the bank.
L: It’s going fast. (“NO”)
Q: I checked today and, including my retirement, I still have, like, $130,000.
L: Mark, that’s — you’re going to —
Q: I’m not worried.
L: Well, of course not.
Q: What, me worry? (“YEAH”) Okay, anyway, well have a good night. If you ever do want to tell me about anyone —
L: That’s why, Mark —
Q: — I’m here.
L: — (breaking down) that’s why —
Q: What?
L: — after listening to you —
Q: Now why are you upset? (“I DIDN’T SAY”) I told you that I loved you more than anyone else and now you’re boo-hooing again.
L: Oh, no, I’m not. I’m just — it upsets me to hear you — that’s why I hope soon I die.
Q: That’s terrible to say.
L: And I mean it. (“I JUST”)
Q: I take that — (“THAT’S ALM”) that strikes my funny bone. (“WELL”) It’s like a Woody Allen movie. Or like “Momma.” (“THAT”) That comic “Momma” (by Mel Lazarus). I mean it’s funny.
L: I hate to see a life — (“WH”)
Q: Why — no, wait. Tell me — why are you upset? What did I say that makes you feel upset? What emotion is enkindled by what I said?
L: Because you’re — you’ve gone from — your mind is gone.
Q: All I said was I found three color photos.
L: Mark, it’s everything — (“I ME”)
Q: Well, if you would read all the book you would know.
L: Mark, it’s four huge volumes.
Q: Right.
L: You know, I just — (“DON’T” “NOW”)
Q: You read Andy Warhol’s Diaries.
L: Yes, but it took me what — five months.
Q: Well, that’s okay.
L: Alright. I mean I’ll get to read — you know, it’s not —
Q: Okay, fine.
L: I mean it’s —
Q: But, at least, you’ll understand. After you read them, you’ll understand.
L: Understand what? What am I supposed to understand?
Q: You’ll just understand.
L: I’ve already perused the book. And I have (“UH-HUH” “AND”) read some of the —
Q: It’s a case study. It will show you everything that happened to me every step of the way.
L: From where?
Q: From my birth?
L: From Oklahoma? Honey, I was there —
Q: It covers my childhood too.
L: I was there at your birth.
Q: I know.
L: I was there after your birth.
Q: I know.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A BRIEF DISCUSSION OF A NUMBER IN A TRANSCRIPT THAT WAS CORRECTED IS OMITTED.)
Q: . . . I just want to be very clear on that. All of my transcripts are as close to verbatim as possible.
L: I bet if I listened to those tapes they wouldn’t be.
Q: Well, I’m sure if you listened to them you’d probably destroy half of them just (Because you’re able to be) getting your little claws on them.
L: (small laugh) Destroy — I mean who cares? Nobody’s going to — oh, Mark, you’re so out of it. (“BUT”) If that’s the way you want to do it.
Q: Okay.
L: There’s nothing I can do.
Q: Well, it’s not up to me, is it?
L: Of course, it is. Everybody has their own life in their hands — in their control.
Q: No, I’ve turned mine over to God.
L: Well, guess what.
Q: What?
L: God doesn’t want it. So —
Q: Okay. Well, whatever. We’ll see what He has in store.
L: Well, what it is He has in store for you — you know, you’ll be —
Q: I don’t know. We’ll find out.
L: It’s been six months now.
Q: And I have $130,000 in the bank. I’m not worried.
L: Don’t you get bored with you life — not doing anything?
Q: I’m working on my book. I’m going to the Southern California HIV/AIDS Hotline. I’m going to the gym. I have errands. I have to go shopping — I mean believe me. I had to go pick up my dry cleaning today. (“OH WELL”)
L: That’s really a lot — to go pick up your — (small laugh)
Q: It’s a lot. (“I’VE GOT”) I bought some new books today. Some poetry books. I experience phenomena every day so I have a very full life.
L: Oh dear. What a — I don’t know, Mark.
Q: I know. But if you read all my book (“YOU’D MO”) you’d know more. And the O. J. Simpson trial isn’t on so you have plenty of free time. (“WHAT WHAT”)
L: What I’ve read from your book —
Q: Don’t be a critic. Don’t be judgmental.
L: No —
Q: Just accept it for what it is.
L: Well, I do. That’s what I’m saying, honey. It’s what you’ve written. It’s what you want to put down there —
Q: No. “Transcribed.”
L: Well, I haven’t gotten that far yet but —
Q: Well, just skip around. Read it. (“I MEAN”) If you can read all of Andy Warhol’s Diaries then you can definitely read your own son’s life story.
L: Well, honey, I told you I will read it but you must remember about Andy Warhol. The only reason that I read that was because (“ME”) he talked about the media. He was terrible. I mean in one paragraph at one year he would say oh how wonderful this person is and oh how great looking. And then the next time he wrote in the diary he’d say oh what a — ooh what a fat slob — what a pig. (“OH HOW”)
Q: Well, just give me time.
L: Well, I mean but see that’s interesting. When you talk about Liz Taylor. I mean people can — I mean I can relate to that more then (small laugh) heavy breathing. Nobody’s going to relate to breathing on a tape. I mean please. I mean you didn’t — (“EVEN IF IT’S”)
Q: Well, it’s there.
L: Even if it’s true they don’t (“IT’S LIKE”) care.
Q: It’s like the time you heard him breathing on the phone. (“HONEY I”) You know what His breathing sounds like.
L: Huffing and puffing. I heard you (“YOU”) and I asked you and you said you went up and down the stairs.
Q: Right. (“WELL” “AND YOU”)
L: Honey, if I were that dumb —
Q: That was Him that time. (“[W]ELL I THIN[K]”)
L: Well, I think — well maybe that it’s Mark and Mark doesn’t realize —
Q: No, I told you. I went downstairs.
L: (sighs) You ran down and you told me you were —
Q: No, I didn’t run down. I went down calmly and I came back ten minutes later, five minutes later and you were still talking. And that’s when I said, “Well, I just came back.” And then you said, “Well, I heard you breathing.”
L: Well, anyway, Mark, that was before you lost a lot of weight and I’m sure when you clumped —
Q: Well, guess what? (“DIANA”) I interviewed Diana Widom. (“AND GUESS”) She went to a psychic and the psychic said that she has an angel named Mighael looking over her as well.
L: Well, that’s great.
Q: Isn’t that? And I guess you do too.
L: (laughs) Well, I’ll take a thousand as long as I don’t —
Q: We both have Beatrix Potter cookie tins so I think it’s like — depending on who you’re angel is —
L: . . . bought it. What was she known for?
Q: — depends on what you — some of the things you purchase.
L: What was Beatrix Potter known for?
Q: You know. Those little animals. Those adorable little animals. (“NOW I KNOW”)
L: No. I’ve heard the name.
Q: I’m just saying that —
L: I thought she was a writer.
Q: Right. But I’m just — it’s a category of — it conjures up a world of little, lovely, cuddly animals. Like what was it? Peter Cottontail or Peter Rabbit? Oh, I don’t even know what they are but —
L: Flopsy, Mopsy, Cottontail and Peter? Don’t you remember that? I read that. They went to old Mr. McGregor’s garden.
Q: Oh. See? Well, this proves that Mighael is your guardian angel because you also have Beatrix Potter in your life.
L: Honey, it proves — no, I — honey, when I was a little girl — I read it when I was six or seven. I mean it’s an old book that little kids used to read. In those days, they didn’t have —
Q: Right. But I’m just saying why that book and why not Dr. Seuss?
L: I read Dr. Seuss.
Q: Well, so did I.
L: The Cat in the Hat. And uh — (“SO DID UH”)
Q: So did I. But, anyway, I’m just saying that different angels select different properties and goods for their assigned people.
L: Who was that — what was that — (“O”) remember? Horton Hatches a Who! (“I READ” “YEA[H]”)
Q: Yeah.
L: I mean that was so cute. The little Who that the mama Who didn’t want.
Q: They’re all gifts of love from your angel.
L: They’re not gifts of love from my angel. They’re gifts from people.
Q: Yes but —
L: Keep them — (“IT’S”) you know what those were? Even in today’s world there are some — these are gifts that people give. And you know how they can give them to other people?
Q: How?
L: By not losing their mind — (“BY”) by being rational in writing beautiful — writing these —
Q: I am rational. Do I sound irrational?
L: Yes. (“AND”) And —
Q: What have I said that is irrational?
L: Mark, everything you say is irrational.
Q: Well, then why don’t you read — (“OKAY”) read all the book and then we’ll discuss it.
L: Okay, honey. (“WELL”)
Q: Okay?
L: Okay, sweetie. Now when does Michael come back?
Q: I told you. Monday.
L: Poor little thing.
Q: Okay — who? Me or him? Him?
L: Well, yeah, you’re not.
Q: Exactly.
L: Because, Mark, you put yourself in someone else’s hands so I don’t have to worry about you anymore.
Q: What are you talking about? Oh right. That’s true.
L: So I mean I don’t worry about you. I mean you just go your way and (“OKAY”) enjoy life. It’s your life.
Q: Okay.
L: And —
Q: Okay, well, thank you.
L: — what happened?
Q: Have a good weekend. This is my weekly call. (“SO”)
L: So there’s one —
Q: Aren’t I a good son?
L: Yes, you are.
Q: Okay —
L: You were always a sweet and wonderful little boy, young man and (“MEM” “IN THE”) a grown-up.
Q: Tell that to the tabloid reporters after my book comes out. If it comes out.
L: (laughs) I’ll tell them. I don’t think they’ll be coming over and asking me. (“BY”) Probably by then you’ll be locked up.
Q: Why?
L: And I’ll come and visit you if I’m not — if I’m still around.
Q: Okay. But no — but — (“PEOPLE ARE”) there are a lot of people who are channeling different people and no one locks them up. (“I MEAN”) There’s going to be a Whole Life Expo in Pasadena in March. I can’t wait. It’s like a New Age fair. (“SEE THAT” “I”)
L: That’s the trouble with today’s youth and today’s world. Instead of getting down to the nitty gritty of living and doing things. (“IF O”)
Q: Well, that’s why you need to (“RE”) read my book.
L: I haven’t read it yet.
Q: Read the other psychotherapy session.
L: The next thing I’m going to read I told you is James Ulmer when he was in Beijing.
Q: You mean you haven’t read that yet? (“NO”) You said that to me —
L: I told you I was sick. I got sick on Tuesday. I was better Wednesday. Then, I was sick again on Thursday. Really really.
Q: You were dizzy?
L: Honey, I — it just — this isn’t what my problem. I mean I’m fine. I feel much, much better now.
Q: This might be phenomena-related.
L: Well, whatever it is I’m much better now and I’ll —
Q: Do you know what nephritis is?
L: Yes, I do. It’s kidney infection and I don’t have nephritis.
Q: No. (“WHY”) I mean a neural disorder. I can’t remember what it’s called. No — a bronchial — it’s a bronchial condition. (“THAT”) I know Maxine said she’s had it (pleurisy).
L: Bronchial’s in the lungs.
Q: Right. (“ISN’T THAT”)
L: I have wonderful lungs.
Q: No, but —
L: I’m sure she smokes too. (“BUT”)
Q: What about you — I mean could you (“BET SHE”) say that (“SMOKE”) this is in the lungs — your problem?
L: I’ll bet you Maxine smokes, doesn’t she?
Q: Well, you know (that) if you’ve read the book.
L: Well, I don’t know. Just tell me. Yes or no?
Q: Yes.
L: (laughs) Of course. I knew that.
Q: And when I spoke to Lois she told me that she was a very young soul.
L: Who’s Lois?
Q: She’d gone to a psychic too. Lois Benson. She said that she too was a very —
L: Oh my God. You’ve really been bothering everybody, haven’t you?
Q: And Sherri Spillane. (“RUTH” “BOY NOW”) Ruth hasn’t returned my call.
L: Well — (“THANK”) Ruth —
Q: I guess she’s scared because of her own fainting spells.
L: She’s not scared. She just knows that you — I’m sure everybody around —
Q: I’m going to call Mamie Van Doren I decided (“I”) to interview her.
L: Mark, please. I’m sure everybody in Hollywood knows that there’s a freak running around. I know.
Q: Everybody except Sherry Lansing.
L: I’m sure she knows too. I’m — (“I’M SURE”)
Q: Well, then why wouldn’t she want the rights to the story? That’s such an interesting story. (“O”)
L: She wants the right —
Q: I mean you know. (“WHEN”)
L: I don’t think so.
Q: Well, let’s keep our fingers crossed.
L: I don’t think so.
Q: I turned my life over to God/Mighael/Whoever so Mighael, get busy.
L: I don’t think so.
Q: All I can say is get busy, Mighael.
L: You know what all I can say?
Q: What?
L: Mark, get busy.
L: It hasn’t really anything to do with your book.
Q: What?
L: That.
Q: Yes, it does. I mean — no, (“YOU KNOW”) it’s sort of my own biography. So I’m just saying that, basically, for each of us it’s the person who provides for us — and all those years of (“LIKE”) the troll villages (toys) at Christmas, (“AND”) the bicycles. Even though you didn’t have much money, (“YOU”) you always made sure that we were taken care of.
L: Well, that’s what —
Q: Even though you didn’t have — (“YOU KNOW” “O”)
L: Honey — (“I”)
Q: Like much to wear or — (“YEAH I”)
L: I was happy. Goodness. I mean I — I thought it was —
Q: Yes, but you were so full of fear of making ends meet and —
L: Well, of course, but I’m sure lots of —
Q: — losing your job.
L: Lots of people are.
Q: Not if they just give their lives over to God.
L: Well, I don’t know — what, honey?
Q: You know — you don’t have to feel fear. You just say, “I surrender my life and will to God.” And then everything just happens.
L: That’s wonderful.
Q: (That’s) sort of the theme of my book.
L: That’s nice. (“MEMBER”) Remember — I always thought we were rich. The only thing that we weren’t rich in was money.
Q: I never really thought about money as a child.
L: Well, of course not. You didn’t have to. (“UM-HUH” “BUT WHEN YOU”)
Q: Looking back, I realize we didn’t have anything, did we?
L: Well, we certainly did.
Q: Right. (“EVERY”) But I mean in terms of money.
L: Wait a second. (“WHEN”) When you were — (small laugh)
Q: We had enough.
L: You didn’t have to worry when you were little, right?
Q: Right.
L: When did you really — you n(ever) — I — (small laugh) now you kids never had to worry until you were in your 20s. And then you really didn’t have to worry about money. Michael was the one that, at 22, started having to worry because he was on his own by his own —
Q: Well, that was his choice.
L: But I mean gee whiz. (“WELL HE GOT”)
Q: And, plus, he got his job the week after he graduated so that was good. That was very fortunate.
L: Well, I don’t think it was quite “the week.”
Q: Yes. I got the call at home. Remember? It was one week after he graduated.
L: Well, if you say so. I mean I don’t — (“I” “MEMBER”)
Q: You know. Tom Wilhite.
L: Yeah, I remember. He had to write something. It couldn’t have been one week because he had to write something first.
Q: No. But the initial call came in then is what I’m saying.
L: Oh. For him to do some work on it.
Q: Well, no. He sent out his resume to all the major studios after he graduated.
L: Yes, but before he got his job he had to write something.
Q: Right. But I’m just saying that the call — I remember the call came in because it was one week after he graduated.
L: Oh well yeah but he didn’t have the job then.
Q: No, but he was called in for an interview.
L: Well, yeah, that’s correct.
Q: And it led to the job.
L: Well yeah.
Q: Most people struggle for months and years to find “the right job.” I couldn’t get work anywhere.
L: Mark —
Q: I mean in the film industry.
L: You didn’t try.
Q: Yes, I tried. Are you kidding? I tried.
L: I don’t remember you ever trying.
Q: I contacted every story department for story analysis work.
L: I never —
Q: I even wrote samples for Pat Betz at NBC.
L: Well, I don’t remember.
Q: I interviewed with John Byers at Columbia.
L: Well, I don’t remember that.
Q: I sent samples all over town.
L: I don’t remember you —
Q: You wouldn’t remember because you weren’t involved in getting the jobs.
L: Yeah, but I listened to everything you kids had to say.
Q: Well, you can’t remember everything.
L: Well, I can certainly — (small laugh) well, I know.
Q: I mean I struggled to get a job. I had to struggle to get a job and, luckily, I was working part-time as a story analyst for Marty Ingels when Ruth hired me to be Mickey Rooney’s assistant and eventually that became a talent agency job and I was lucky to have that job. I mean I really enjoyed it —
L: Well, Mark, you were just a little tiny baby. And you couldn’t — remem(ber) —
Q: Well, I was 23 — (“OR TWO”) 22/23.
L: Well, (“WELL”) — (small laugh) (“RE”) recently. I mean you can’t expect to go out and — unless you’re — you know that one in a million. I mean it’s just — good grief. I mean I can remember having the door slammed in my face lots of times.
Q: Right.
L: I mean that’s what kind of makes you fearful if you have obligations. I mean if it wasn’t — oh well.
Q: So, anyway, have you read any more of the book? What’s your response so far?
L: I haven’t —
Q: How much have you read? You’re skipping around — I know that.
L: Well, I haven’t really read — because I’ve been kind of under the weather.
Q: What’s wrong?
L: Well, no, I’m fine now. I don’t know what was wrong. But — (“NO”) pick it up — No, I still haven’t read —
Q: What do you mean you “don’t know what was wrong”?
L: Well, honey, I got better.
Q: I know but what was wrong? How would you describe it? ([WHISPER] “OH I — I”)
L: I don’t know. I had a little touch of the flu or something. (“YEAH” “SO”)
Q: So did Michael. But that could be anything — flu — ‘flu’ is sort of a question mark to begin with.
L: Well, yeah, but poor — you know where Michael went. I mean it must have been bitter cold up there. (small laugh)
Q: Well yeah.
L: You realize what kind of weather —
Q: Well, his room’s heated, though.
L: Well, I know but your body just can’t go into those conditions (“UN”) un — I mean you have to be acclimatized to things like (that) — I mean, jeese, I mean his little body from Southern California when it was practically summer — he had to go up there in that cold and ohhhh. (“SO”) Where’d he — I don’t know where’d he — is it close to Salt Lake? Well, anyway, I know it was terrible weather. Terrible.
Q: So what interviews did you enjoy the most so far — that you have read?
L: Well, I haven’t read them all.
Q: You said you read one of yours.
L: Well yeah — well, no, I didn’t read it word for word. I just looked at what I said. There are so many “um-huhs” — oh, I read a little bit of your psychotherapy with — not the psychiatrist; the other one.
Q: Oh, the hypnotherapist.
L: A little bit. Just a little bit of — and all I see is ‘uh-huh uh-huh.’
Q: Him going, “Hmm.” (“UH-HUH”) Right. (“HHH” “UH-HUH” “WELL THEY’RE”) They’re supposed to listen. (“BUT”)
L: But I did like that — no, but there — I saw one part where he asked you what goal you wanted to attain. (“AND WHAT” “I”) I didn’t read on from there but, so, he did ask you.
Q: And I answered the question. (“O”)
L: See, I haven’t read that. (“SO”)
Q: You should have read on.
L: Well, maybe I did read on. (“I — I”) What did you say? I can’t remember.
Q: I can’t remember either.
L: Well, I see — (laughs) I mean —
Q: I can’t memorize it.
L: — obviously.
Q: [With] a 1,300-page book you just can’t memorize everything. (“WELL NO”) I don’t remember exactly what I said but I’m sure it had something to do with finishing my book and —
L: I don’t think so. I think —
Q: — doing whatever’s best for God.
L: Oh, yes, I think you did say — no, well, I don’t know. There was so much God brought in there so many different times. But I mean I’ve never seen so many “Hmm. Hmm.”
Q: Well, you know, (“I FIG”) I figured out now after doing a lot of work for the book (“THAT” “LITTLE”) a lot of them I think were actually (“LITTLE”) Mighael going ‘Hmm.’ (“BIG”)
L: Oh (“OR”) Mark.
Q: No. I’m serious.
L: That was a doctor. (“ME”) Well, when —
Q: He fills in the blank spaces —
L: Can I say something?
Q: — and that’s one of the things He says.
L: Don’t get angry but if I was a — (small laugh) hypnotherapist or anyone — anyone — and some doofus was sitting there spouting what you spout — (“I” “WILLIA[M]” “ME”) you know — what are you going to say? (“GGG”) Going to say, “Oh right on.” You’re going to say, “Mmm.” Especially if you’re a — (small laugh) he’s there to help you. For heaven’s sake, Mark.
Q: Oh, you don’t have them — you know, I transcribed my most recent hypnotherapy session with him and so (“II”) I’ll give that to you at some point to read.
L: Oh, that’s okay. (“THAT’S MUCH” “THAT’S”)
Q: That’s much more informative and enlightening. (“TH[E] ON[L]Y”)
L: There’s only one thing that I want to hear. I want to hear when you pop in (“WWWI”) with — oh what do you call it?
Q: What?
L: Spirit or — oh God, how could I forget? What do you call that thing that where he says word —
Q: Oh. “Spirit voice heard on tape here.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS REFERS TO MY ORGANIZATION OF THE SPIRIT MESSAGES IN THE ORIGINAL DRAFTS OF THE BOOK MANUSCRIPT.)
L: Oh yeah. I want to hear that.
Q: You mean the tapes?
L: Has anybody heard any of those things?
Q: Sure. (“WHO”) Michael has. James has. Mark Kostabi has. (“MY”) Therapist had.
L: Would they say that they heard him?
Q: Well, yeah. (“BUT”)
L: Is someone other than you — (“THEY”)
Q: They try to find ways to explain them away. They desperately try to find any way they can to explain them away. For example, my ex-therapist kept saying, “Well, it sounds just like you.” (“BUT”) But she knew I hadn’t said that — “OH WE SNICKER” — about the book because she would have remembered that. (“SO”) There are unarguable — even Andy. I played it — I went to a screening of the movie “Martha” at the Directors Guild and at the end of the tape (K) I said, (“WELL”) “Mighael, say something here” — no, that was another time. No, he just said “SMART” and you could hear it very clearly on the tape so I played that for Andy and he said, “No, that’s Michael saying ‘Mark.’ (“AND”) Even Michael now thinks that it’s himself saying “Mark” but if you’ll listen to the tape —
L: Well, I’m sure it is.
Q: — you can hear it very clearly in a different tone other than mine saying “SMART.”
L: (sighs)
Q: Exactly. (“THAT’S WHAT PEOP”) People just don’t want to believe it. (“WELL”)
L: I guess it’s only important if you believe it but I wouldn’t —
Q: Because —
L: — try to go out — maybe it’s just for your ears only and I wouldn’t — I mean if it’s there (“THEN”) then people will recognize it. (“NO”)
Q: Andy said today that he thinks that maybe my book will be published posthumously. And I hope not because I would like to see the finished product after doing all this work.
L: Well, what does it — does that mean you’re supposed to croak pretty soon or what?
Q: No, I’m just saying that’s what Andy said. I don’t think I’m ever going to croak, personally. I think that God’s going to make an exception for me.
L: Ohhh well —
Q: And take me away to his sparry palace. (“O”) Probably to have sex but sex is not the most important thing in my life. I’ve realized working on the book that —
L: Mark, I hope you don’t say —
Q: — it’s very fulfilling to work on this book.
L: — things like that. Mark.
Q: What?
L: God’s going to take you away to His what palace?
Q: Sparry.
L: Sparry? What is that?
Q: I read it in The House of Russell.
L: I don’t know what sparry is. And to have sex — who’s He going to have sex with?
Q: Me.
L: With yourself?
Q: Um-huh.
L: Well, you don’t have to go to God to do that. All you got to go in and diddle.
Q: No, I’m saying that —
L: Good grief.
Q: I’m saying that I think He wants me.
L: Mark.
Q: I know. (“I KNOW”)
L: Totally lost it. (“I MEAN I”)
Q: There’s no accounting for taste.
L: Well, Mark, there’s no accounting for you.
Q: I know. (“I”)
L: And it’s too bad. (“BUT”) I wish I could help you plan your life.
Q: No, I just was saying that sex is not that important to me. (“WE KNEW”) I was reading —
L: Well, honey, it’s not important to a lot of people.
Q: — these gay poems and one said how (“YOU KNOW” “HE WOULD”) this one poet said that basically he would believe in God — it had something to do with oral sex. I can’t remember exactly what it said. (“BUT” “YOU KNOW I MEAN” “THERE’S O”) I mean sex is fine. There is a place for that. I mean I can’t see spending a whole century having sex. (“LIKE”) It says (that) in Mark Twain’s book. It’s a nice thought. (“I”) I guess — well, there are times when I’m feeling in a very passionate state. Then, I can buy it. But right now —
L: When you’re in a passionate state go out —
Q: — but right now I feel like there’s nothing better than working on my book. (“I THINK”) That to me is like really good sex.
L: Take it from me, Mark, sex is so totally over-rated.
Q: No, that’s what I’m saying.
L: I don’t know about men. (“BUT”)
Q: Unless it’s with the right person.
L: Sex — (“IT HA[S]”) it has to be with — right.
Q: Your soulmate.
L: Well, it doesn’t have to be the soulmate. I mean I’m not even saying it has to be with someone — (“YOU KNOW”) I mean I had a little fling with Bud. I mean it was great. You know — it lasted not very long. You can’t — see, that’s the difference between men and women. I could have gone out with Bud and really (“YOU KNOW”) liked him. But men do not go around with women very long unless something happened because (“YOU KNOW” “WH”) when a man and woman get together — (“WELL”) I guess now men too — I don’t know — but it’s usually — you don’t keep seeing someone unless there’s an attraction there. If you’re normal. (“WELL” “I MEAN” “WH” “I’M”)
Q: These are all ba(sic) — we all know these things.
L: Well, all I know is I just — (“I CA[N’T]”)
Q: Any other family secrets while you’re at it? My horoscope said today I was going to learn some family secrets.
L: Honey, you know I have no secrets. (“EVERYTHING I”) My life is an open book. I have no secrets.
Q: Well, read the interviews with you and with Paul (“ABOUT”) about that. I think you’ll find it very interesting. (“WELL I READ” “I”)
L: I read that. (“DIDN’T MAKE IT”) How many interviews — (“HAVE”)
Q: Did you read his interviews — with Paul? (“HE”) Doesn’t he make it seem like — (“WHO”)
L: Whose interview?
Q: Paul.
L: Well, I read that — I mean I didn’t read it verbatim but I read part (“WE” “WHERE HE”) where you called him (“AND”) and he said, “I thought I told you, you know, about Bob.” (“AND HE TA”) And Paul talked about some sort of eye medicine. (“IS THAT”) Is that the one you’re talking about?
Q: I don’t remember.
L: And then you asked him about some guy. I haven’t read this part yet — about some bar and you asked about Red. He said — as I said I didn’t read it verbatim. I just skipped —
Q: He said he was worried about Boys Club. (“OH”)
L: Well, no, I didn’t read that but he said he had some friends down in Los Angeles who had a bar.
Q: That sounds like him. (“YEP” “NO” “WAY”)
L: Mark, you’re the one — it’s your book, for God’s sake.
Q: I’m just saying why don’t you read all of Paul’s interviews because he makes it seem like there is definitely something he’s trying to hide.
L: Well, I’m sure he has lots of his past to hide.
Q: No, I mean — (“YOU KNOW OUR”) but also — you know what I also came upon in the scrapbooks? (“NO”) There were (“LIKE”) three little color baby photos.
L: Three little what? (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: Color snapshots of us as newborn babies.
L: Yeah.
Q: Three. Not two. Not four. But three.
L: So?
Q: So? I mean it just makes you wonder. Could we have been triplets? (pause) Even though it says twin —
L: Honey, I would —
Q: — on our certificate of live birth.
L: Is that the one where you have the little blue suits on?
Q: I can’t remember.
L: Oh well.
Q: I think so. It was color.
L: Of course it was.
Q: But there were three.
L: You show me the third one. You show me the third one and — you show me that third snapshot, Mark.
Q: What do you mean? I have three snapshots.
L: You bring it over and you show me.
Q: Okay.
L: And if it is — (pause)
Q: No, I definitely — I have three —
L: — I’ll give you a rational expla(nation) because, Mark, I know exactly what pictures are in there.
Q: I have three.
L: Well, who’s the third one?
Q: That’s what I want to know. I definitely have three. (“O”) They look like they were hospital-taken or something.
L: You never had any pictures taken in a hospital.
Q: Well, no, I’m just saying — (“IT LOOKED”) it was not a Polaroid. It was not like the other photos.
L: Well, the other photos were not Po(laroid) — honey, when you were a baby — Mark —
Q: These were like passport-type photos.
L: Mark —
Q: They were color.
L: — you’re crazy.
Q: They were different from all the other ones — no, I have the photos here.
L: Mark, they didn’t have Polaroids back when you were — (“THAT’S WHAT I’M SAY”)
Q: I’m saying they — these were not. That’s what I’m saying. I’m saying all the other photos are big square-shaped and these are much more rectangular. (“UH” “I”) They’re color and they look different.
L: Mark —
Q: And there’s three of them.
L: Mark, well, I don’t know. I know everything that’s in there. You’d have to show it to me. (“I” “I HA[VE]”)
Q: I made copies of them, in fact. So — no, I can show you.
L: Mark, when are you going to go out and get a job so, you know, God won’t have to take care of you and worry about you?
Q: I have plenty of money in the bank.
L: It’s going fast. (“NO”)
Q: I checked today and, including my retirement, I still have, like, $130,000.
L: Mark, that’s — you’re going to —
Q: I’m not worried.
L: Well, of course not.
Q: What, me worry? (“YEAH”) Okay, anyway, well have a good night. If you ever do want to tell me about anyone —
L: That’s why, Mark —
Q: — I’m here.
L: — (breaking down) that’s why —
Q: What?
L: — after listening to you —
Q: Now why are you upset? (“I DIDN’T SAY”) I told you that I loved you more than anyone else and now you’re boo-hooing again.
L: Oh, no, I’m not. I’m just — it upsets me to hear you — that’s why I hope soon I die.
Q: That’s terrible to say.
L: And I mean it. (“I JUST”)
Q: I take that — (“THAT’S ALM”) that strikes my funny bone. (“WELL”) It’s like a Woody Allen movie. Or like “Momma.” (“THAT”) That comic “Momma” (by Mel Lazarus). I mean it’s funny.
L: I hate to see a life — (“WH”)
Q: Why — no, wait. Tell me — why are you upset? What did I say that makes you feel upset? What emotion is enkindled by what I said?
L: Because you’re — you’ve gone from — your mind is gone.
Q: All I said was I found three color photos.
L: Mark, it’s everything — (“I ME”)
Q: Well, if you would read all the book you would know.
L: Mark, it’s four huge volumes.
Q: Right.
L: You know, I just — (“DON’T” “NOW”)
Q: You read Andy Warhol’s Diaries.
L: Yes, but it took me what — five months.
Q: Well, that’s okay.
L: Alright. I mean I’ll get to read — you know, it’s not —
Q: Okay, fine.
L: I mean it’s —
Q: But, at least, you’ll understand. After you read them, you’ll understand.
L: Understand what? What am I supposed to understand?
Q: You’ll just understand.
L: I’ve already perused the book. And I have (“UH-HUH” “AND”) read some of the —
Q: It’s a case study. It will show you everything that happened to me every step of the way.
L: From where?
Q: From my birth?
L: From Oklahoma? Honey, I was there —
Q: It covers my childhood too.
L: I was there at your birth.
Q: I know.
L: I was there after your birth.
Q: I know.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A BRIEF DISCUSSION OF A NUMBER IN A TRANSCRIPT THAT WAS CORRECTED IS OMITTED.)
Q: . . . I just want to be very clear on that. All of my transcripts are as close to verbatim as possible.
L: I bet if I listened to those tapes they wouldn’t be.
Q: Well, I’m sure if you listened to them you’d probably destroy half of them just (Because you’re able to be) getting your little claws on them.
L: (small laugh) Destroy — I mean who cares? Nobody’s going to — oh, Mark, you’re so out of it. (“BUT”) If that’s the way you want to do it.
Q: Okay.
L: There’s nothing I can do.
Q: Well, it’s not up to me, is it?
L: Of course, it is. Everybody has their own life in their hands — in their control.
Q: No, I’ve turned mine over to God.
L: Well, guess what.
Q: What?
L: God doesn’t want it. So —
Q: Okay. Well, whatever. We’ll see what He has in store.
L: Well, what it is He has in store for you — you know, you’ll be —
Q: I don’t know. We’ll find out.
L: It’s been six months now.
Q: And I have $130,000 in the bank. I’m not worried.
L: Don’t you get bored with you life — not doing anything?
Q: I’m working on my book. I’m going to the Southern California HIV/AIDS Hotline. I’m going to the gym. I have errands. I have to go shopping — I mean believe me. I had to go pick up my dry cleaning today. (“OH WELL”)
L: That’s really a lot — to go pick up your — (small laugh)
Q: It’s a lot. (“I’VE GOT”) I bought some new books today. Some poetry books. I experience phenomena every day so I have a very full life.
L: Oh dear. What a — I don’t know, Mark.
Q: I know. But if you read all my book (“YOU’D MO”) you’d know more. And the O. J. Simpson trial isn’t on so you have plenty of free time. (“WHAT WHAT”)
L: What I’ve read from your book —
Q: Don’t be a critic. Don’t be judgmental.
L: No —
Q: Just accept it for what it is.
L: Well, I do. That’s what I’m saying, honey. It’s what you’ve written. It’s what you want to put down there —
Q: No. “Transcribed.”
L: Well, I haven’t gotten that far yet but —
Q: Well, just skip around. Read it. (“I MEAN”) If you can read all of Andy Warhol’s Diaries then you can definitely read your own son’s life story.
L: Well, honey, I told you I will read it but you must remember about Andy Warhol. The only reason that I read that was because (“ME”) he talked about the media. He was terrible. I mean in one paragraph at one year he would say oh how wonderful this person is and oh how great looking. And then the next time he wrote in the diary he’d say oh what a — ooh what a fat slob — what a pig. (“OH HOW”)
Q: Well, just give me time.
L: Well, I mean but see that’s interesting. When you talk about Liz Taylor. I mean people can — I mean I can relate to that more then (small laugh) heavy breathing. Nobody’s going to relate to breathing on a tape. I mean please. I mean you didn’t — (“EVEN IF IT’S”)
Q: Well, it’s there.
L: Even if it’s true they don’t (“IT’S LIKE”) care.
Q: It’s like the time you heard him breathing on the phone. (“HONEY I”) You know what His breathing sounds like.
L: Huffing and puffing. I heard you (“YOU”) and I asked you and you said you went up and down the stairs.
Q: Right. (“WELL” “AND YOU”)
L: Honey, if I were that dumb —
Q: That was Him that time. (“[W]ELL I THIN[K]”)
L: Well, I think — well maybe that it’s Mark and Mark doesn’t realize —
Q: No, I told you. I went downstairs.
L: (sighs) You ran down and you told me you were —
Q: No, I didn’t run down. I went down calmly and I came back ten minutes later, five minutes later and you were still talking. And that’s when I said, “Well, I just came back.” And then you said, “Well, I heard you breathing.”
L: Well, anyway, Mark, that was before you lost a lot of weight and I’m sure when you clumped —
Q: Well, guess what? (“DIANA”) I interviewed Diana Widom. (“AND GUESS”) She went to a psychic and the psychic said that she has an angel named Mighael looking over her as well.
L: Well, that’s great.
Q: Isn’t that? And I guess you do too.
L: (laughs) Well, I’ll take a thousand as long as I don’t —
Q: We both have Beatrix Potter cookie tins so I think it’s like — depending on who you’re angel is —
L: . . . bought it. What was she known for?
Q: — depends on what you — some of the things you purchase.
L: What was Beatrix Potter known for?
Q: You know. Those little animals. Those adorable little animals. (“NOW I KNOW”)
L: No. I’ve heard the name.
Q: I’m just saying that —
L: I thought she was a writer.
Q: Right. But I’m just — it’s a category of — it conjures up a world of little, lovely, cuddly animals. Like what was it? Peter Cottontail or Peter Rabbit? Oh, I don’t even know what they are but —
L: Flopsy, Mopsy, Cottontail and Peter? Don’t you remember that? I read that. They went to old Mr. McGregor’s garden.
Q: Oh. See? Well, this proves that Mighael is your guardian angel because you also have Beatrix Potter in your life.
L: Honey, it proves — no, I — honey, when I was a little girl — I read it when I was six or seven. I mean it’s an old book that little kids used to read. In those days, they didn’t have —
Q: Right. But I’m just saying why that book and why not Dr. Seuss?
L: I read Dr. Seuss.
Q: Well, so did I.
L: The Cat in the Hat. And uh — (“SO DID UH”)
Q: So did I. But, anyway, I’m just saying that different angels select different properties and goods for their assigned people.
L: Who was that — what was that — (“O”) remember? Horton Hatches a Who! (“I READ” “YEA[H]”)
Q: Yeah.
L: I mean that was so cute. The little Who that the mama Who didn’t want.
Q: They’re all gifts of love from your angel.
L: They’re not gifts of love from my angel. They’re gifts from people.
Q: Yes but —
L: Keep them — (“IT’S”) you know what those were? Even in today’s world there are some — these are gifts that people give. And you know how they can give them to other people?
Q: How?
L: By not losing their mind — (“BY”) by being rational in writing beautiful — writing these —
Q: I am rational. Do I sound irrational?
L: Yes. (“AND”) And —
Q: What have I said that is irrational?
L: Mark, everything you say is irrational.
Q: Well, then why don’t you read — (“OKAY”) read all the book and then we’ll discuss it.
L: Okay, honey. (“WELL”)
Q: Okay?
L: Okay, sweetie. Now when does Michael come back?
Q: I told you. Monday.
L: Poor little thing.
Q: Okay — who? Me or him? Him?
L: Well, yeah, you’re not.
Q: Exactly.
L: Because, Mark, you put yourself in someone else’s hands so I don’t have to worry about you anymore.
Q: What are you talking about? Oh right. That’s true.
L: So I mean I don’t worry about you. I mean you just go your way and (“OKAY”) enjoy life. It’s your life.
Q: Okay.
L: And —
Q: Okay, well, thank you.
L: — what happened?
Q: Have a good weekend. This is my weekly call. (“SO”)
L: So there’s one —
Q: Aren’t I a good son?
L: Yes, you are.
Q: Okay —
L: You were always a sweet and wonderful little boy, young man and (“MEM” “IN THE”) a grown-up.
Q: Tell that to the tabloid reporters after my book comes out. If it comes out.
L: (laughs) I’ll tell them. I don’t think they’ll be coming over and asking me. (“BY”) Probably by then you’ll be locked up.
Q: Why?
L: And I’ll come and visit you if I’m not — if I’m still around.
Q: Okay. But no — but — (“PEOPLE ARE”) there are a lot of people who are channeling different people and no one locks them up. (“I MEAN”) There’s going to be a Whole Life Expo in Pasadena in March. I can’t wait. It’s like a New Age fair. (“SEE THAT” “I”)
L: That’s the trouble with today’s youth and today’s world. Instead of getting down to the nitty gritty of living and doing things. (“IF O”)
Q: Well, that’s why you need to (“RE”) read my book.
L: I haven’t read it yet.
Q: Read the other psychotherapy session.
L: The next thing I’m going to read I told you is James Ulmer when he was in Beijing.
Q: You mean you haven’t read that yet? (“NO”) You said that to me —
L: I told you I was sick. I got sick on Tuesday. I was better Wednesday. Then, I was sick again on Thursday. Really really.
Q: You were dizzy?
L: Honey, I — it just — this isn’t what my problem. I mean I’m fine. I feel much, much better now.
Q: This might be phenomena-related.
L: Well, whatever it is I’m much better now and I’ll —
Q: Do you know what nephritis is?
L: Yes, I do. It’s kidney infection and I don’t have nephritis.
Q: No. (“WHY”) I mean a neural disorder. I can’t remember what it’s called. No — a bronchial — it’s a bronchial condition. (“THAT”) I know Maxine said she’s had it (pleurisy).
L: Bronchial’s in the lungs.
Q: Right. (“ISN’T THAT”)
L: I have wonderful lungs.
Q: No, but —
L: I’m sure she smokes too. (“BUT”)
Q: What about you — I mean could you (“BET SHE”) say that (“SMOKE”) this is in the lungs — your problem?
L: I’ll bet you Maxine smokes, doesn’t she?
Q: Well, you know (that) if you’ve read the book.
L: Well, I don’t know. Just tell me. Yes or no?
Q: Yes.
L: (laughs) Of course. I knew that.
Q: And when I spoke to Lois she told me that she was a very young soul.
L: Who’s Lois?
Q: She’d gone to a psychic too. Lois Benson. She said that she too was a very —
L: Oh my God. You’ve really been bothering everybody, haven’t you?
Q: And Sherri Spillane. (“RUTH” “BOY NOW”) Ruth hasn’t returned my call.
L: Well — (“THANK”) Ruth —
Q: I guess she’s scared because of her own fainting spells.
L: She’s not scared. She just knows that you — I’m sure everybody around —
Q: I’m going to call Mamie Van Doren I decided (“I”) to interview her.
L: Mark, please. I’m sure everybody in Hollywood knows that there’s a freak running around. I know.
Q: Everybody except Sherry Lansing.
L: I’m sure she knows too. I’m — (“I’M SURE”)
Q: Well, then why wouldn’t she want the rights to the story? That’s such an interesting story. (“O”)
L: She wants the right —
Q: I mean you know. (“WHEN”)
L: I don’t think so.
Q: Well, let’s keep our fingers crossed.
L: I don’t think so.
Q: I turned my life over to God/Mighael/Whoever so Mighael, get busy.
L: I don’t think so.
Q: All I can say is get busy, Mighael.
L: You know what all I can say?
Q: What?
L: Mark, get busy.
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