TELEPHONE INTERVIEW — TAPE #21, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell Bell
D: Doris G. Moseley (one of Andy’s neighbors)
F: Fiona Manning (friend)
V: David Botsford (clinical hypnotherapist)
P: Mike Phelps, Ancient Biblical Research Center
Q: I finished transcribing our interview and had to ask you about your experience with the angel.
D: Oh. Well, I was a little girl and my mother was dead. And I had a housekeeper — a woman, you know. (“HUH”) And I was supposed to go to Sunday school every Sunday. They gave you little (“OOH”) stickers to show you’d been. And so I didn’t go and I paid somebody else to give me the stickers. I got a Bible or something like that for the stickers. And then I saw the angel standing in the corner of my bedroom looking very ashamed of me so I took the Bible back to the Sunday school.
Q: How old you were at the time?
D: Six. I took the Bible back and said that I had cheated.
Q: What did the angel look like?
D: Well, she was in robes. I mean she really looked like an angel that you see in pictures — wearing a long robe and there was something on her head. I don’t know what it was. A flower or something.
Q: And how old was the angel?
D: I should think in her forties or fifties.
Q: Because you wouldn’t think that angels would have an age.
D: I know but I mean she wasn’t a child like me. She was more like a woman. (“UM-HUH”) Here was a fairly young woman that looked very reproachfully at me. She didn’t speak but I knew I’d been doing something wrong.
Q: What do you think you’d been doing wrong?
D: Well, I bought those stickers instead of going to Sunday school to earn them. (“NO”) I paid children — “I’ll give you a penny for a sticker.” Because they’d gone to Sunday school.
Q: Do you think it was a dream?
D: Well, it’s hard to say, isn’t it? I mean I know I was very shaken, embarrassed — guilty. And so I took the Bible back. I couldn’t keep it because you had to have a full book of stickers before you got the Bible. (“YEAH”) I hadn’t been going to Sunday school. I’d been running around.
Q: So, of course, the question is how someone could evolve from a child who saw an angel into a woman almost ninety that doesn’t believe in God?
D: Well, that’s a long — that isn’t a very long story. But I can tell it to you. (“WHAT”) Do you want to hear it now?
Q: Very quickly.
D: Well, I was Anglo-Catholic. Do you know what that is? (“YEAH”) It’s like the Church of England. And it goes in for confession (“YEAH”) and all that sort of thing. There was a young priest—I was now sixteen or seventeen—and he was absolutely marvelous. He gave me a crucifix and told me to take it to bed with me at night. I mean he really was marvelous. (“RIGHT”) And when he gave the host into your hand when you go to communion he always gave me a special sort of little present. I thought, “Oh, isn’t he wonderful.” Then I went to Cambridge and, before I went, he said, “I’ll come up and see you.” So I said, “Fine.” So he arrived one day. Now this marvelous holy man that I thought was really religious — I mean I took this crucifix to bed with me night after night and prayed and fasted and did all sorts of things. Anyway, so he came to my corridor—I was living at Cambridge—and said, “We’ll go out to lunch.” And I said, “Yes.” So we went out to lunch. Now don’t forget that I was brought up in the strict English way not even to kiss. I was a virgin. I’d never had a boyfriend. Ever. And he said, “I don’t have to go back tonight but I’d like to take a room and have you stay with me.” And I was so shocked I got out of the car and I thought, “I’ll never believe anybody again.” He was ‘holy.’ (“HMMM”)
Q: It seems for most of your life you’ve been running away from men. (“BEG YOUR PARDON” “HMPF”)
D: So then I thought, (“HUH”) “Well, it’s all a lot of S — H — I — T.”
Q: Just because of one person?
D: He wasn’t being a priest to me. He was —
Q: But that’s just one person.
D: — preying upon my girlish beliefs; on my purity and honesty and all that.
Q: Well, yeah, but you can’t let one person take away your faith in everybody. (“YOU KNOW”)
D: If that’s what a man — what a priest does, I want no more of it.
Q: Yeah, but that’s (“HUH”) just one guy.
D: Tonight, that’s it. I’m trembling. I’ll talk to you again.
Q: Okay. (“IF YOU”) Hello? Doris?
D: Are you there, Michael? (“YEAH”)
Q: Did you say you had to go?
D: I can’t hear you.
Q: Are you going to go now?
D: Not really.
Q: Oh, okay. (“OHH”) You know last time I called you, do you remember when you could hear Michael speaking on the phone and making those meowing noises?
D: Yes.
Q: He’s not making any noises now. (“I”) I wonder why — where he is at the moment. Anyway — what did you just say? Did you say you had to go or something?
D: No no no. But I have to finish my wickedness later on. Because from that point, I did something very wicked and didn’t care.
Q: What did you do?
D: Oh dear. I met a man (“YEAH”) in Paris. And I was going to Copenhagen. (“YEAH”) I told him where I was going to be and I went. Then, the next day he arrived at the hotel and said, “Well, I’ve come to see you.” And I said, “Oh, marvelous.” And he said, “But I have to tell you that I’m a priest.” And I said, “Oh?”
Q: Run!
D: “Oh?” So I said, “You mean you want to sleep with me?” And he said, “Yes.” (“YES”)
Q: Oh my God.
D: And I thought, “Now I’ve got my revenge.”
Q: Wow. Well, I think you’ve given me a lot to think about. I’m not a Catholic personally.
D: Pardon?
Q: I’m not a Catholic, of course. I’m just about everything else except a Catholic.
D: Okay.
Q: Okay, well then have a good night. I just wanted to say hello.
D: Yes. Thank you for calling, Mark.
Q: Okay.
D: Very nice. Thank you.
Q: Okay, bye. (“YOUR MOTHER”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I RECORD THE FOLLOWING DURING A GROUP DISCUSSION AT MY HOTLINE TRAINING CLASS AFTER MY FRIEND WILLIAM MENTIONS THE FILM “LONGTIME COMPANION.”)
Q: He mentioned “Longtime Companion” so I have to say something. I watched it when there was a marathon on one of the cable TV stations with all these different AIDS programs. So I finally said, “Oh good, I’ve always wanted to (“UH-HUH”) see this” and I watched it. But when I watched it, there was something wrong with the times that I was taping it so the ending got cut off so I didn’t get to see the ending. It ended for me with the angel appearing to the dying man with AIDS. So it was the union of the angel and the man that I saw which was the end of the film for me.
( . . . )
Q: (talking into tape recorder the following morning) Whoops. I meant “Parting Glances.” The movie I meant is “Parting Glances.” I always get those two movies mixed up.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY FRIEND FIONA.)
Q: I’m having one of those days.
F: What’s going on?
Q: Well, when I went to get my hair and beard trimmed at my usual place — Dusty Fleming. They had given me an appointment on my haircutter’s day off.
F: Oh, you’re kidding.
Q: It was okay. I met this lady named Zoya and she was very nice. Did you hear that they canceled “American Playhouse” on PBS?
F: They did? How come?
Q: Republican politics. And I found out that one of my friends might be an undercover agent. I received a phone bill for $200 because I gave my Pacific Bell calling card to the family in Oklahoma.
F: When you were in hospital I told Mike to cancel it. I said to him, “They’re going to be calling the whole world.” And he said, “No, they wouldn’t do that.” I knew they would.
Q: I don’t think they’re doing that. It’s just that, see, the number I gave them was for my local service so whatever phone they use determines the long distance rate. So there are different rates. For two minutes it costs $10 on one of the charges. Anyway, I’ve taken care of the problem by witching to MCI and I gave them that card number to use when calling me. (“SO”) So that will —
F: Oh God. Why do you have to pay for their phone bill?
Q: Well, they don’t have any money. But, anyway, I’m not worried about that. What else? Oh, get this. CPC Alhambra called me this morning and apparently Blue Cross is not going to cover the bill.
F: How come?
Q: I don’t know because the whole thing was stipulated on the fact that my insurance would cover it. Usually they check that out before they admit you. (“SO”) I have a thousand dollar deductible so I’m going to insist that Blue Cross honors our agreement and covers it.
F: Well, they should.
Q: What is wrong with the health care industry? I mean everyone connected with it should read that Dickens book Dombey and Son. But, anyway, enough about that. By the way, (“I GET”) on Thursday night the show is going to be on. The final title is “Ghosts, Mediums, Psychics: Put To The Test.” It’s at eight o’clock on ABC.
F: What’s this about?
Q: The Oklahoma family. They’re interviewed for a half hour.
F: But listen. Why do you have to pay for these people’s phone calls?
Q: They don’t have any money.
F: So what? You gave them a chunk of change.
Q: I have to speak to them for updates and to ask them spelling questions.
F: Yeah, but they’re calling everybody else.
Q: No. I’m hoping to finish the book soon so. They’re not calling as much anymore. They’re friends. I’m not really worried about that. But the reason why I called you is that before James left to go to Egypt he suggested for my book I ask you about the time you took a trip to Oklahoma. Do you remember that?
F: Yeah.
Q: Why did you go there?
F: I went to interview S. E. Hinton.
Q: The author of Rumble Fish?
F: Yeah. She lives in Tulsa.
Q: How did you get that job? James thought it was unusual that both you and I ended up visiting Oklahoma.
F: Well, she’s one of my favorite writers and I was commissioned by a magazine called Southwest Spirit to go to Tulsa and interview her.
Q: Tulsa isn’t too far away from where I was. Coalgate and Centrahoma are approximately halfway between Oklahoma City and Tulsa but to the south. So you didn’t make your way anywhere close to Coalgate or Coal County?
F: No.
Q: The area is the weird capital of the world — another Bermuda Triangle.
F: Is it?
Q: Yeah. It’s like —
F: I thought Tulsa was pretty weird, though.
Q: What happened?
F: Nothing happened. It’s just a weird place because — hang on a second. Don’t go away.
Q: Okay. (“OKAY”)
F: Hello?
Q: Hi. I’m picking up Japanese on my receiver and its very loud so I hope it doesn’t interfere with taping and transcribing. Can you hear it?
F: Tulsa is in the middle of the Bible Belt. And the hotel I was staying at was called The Camelot Hotel. It was right near the Oral Roberts Church where the praying hands were and half the people I met were complete Bible fanatics. It’s bizarre. But she was really nice. I was only there one night. I stayed at the hotel and I interviewed her the next day. And she drove me around and showed me Tulsa which has changed a lot since she grew up. And I didn’t see very much. I didn’t have a car there. I just tooled around basically. I didn’t see anything. I thought it was a pretty weird place though because of all the religious stuff.
Q: Something major has happened since I last spoke to you.
F: To you?
Q: Want to hear it for a moment? Do you have a minute or two?
F: Yeah.
Q: I have a very fascinating story for you. Last week, I was talking into my tape recorder to organize my thoughts and one of the things I said is — well words can’t express — this is just something momentous. (“IT”) In a long series of extraordinary coincidences, it’s probably the most remarkable one. Three years ago, remember I was looking for something to keep all my press kits in.
F: You told me this story.
Q: Oh, I did?
F: Yeah.
Q: Well, let me go ahead and just finish real quick because I’ll give you more details. (“SOMETHING MORE”) I wanted something more interesting than a filing cabinet and I saw this beautiful old dome-top trunk outside an antique store down the street from the Nuart Theatre. I didn’t know what it was. Some kind of metal with wood reinforcements — a burnished gold color but with colorful flowers painted all over it. Anyway, it was just what I was looking for to hold my press kits. A lot of hard work and love went into my work writing and editing the production information for all those films to capture what made them unique and compelling. Movies are magic and the best ones inspire people and show them beautiful truths. I worked anonymously and without any degree of personal ego to present the ideas and truths that distinguished each film — a lot of creativity went into them. So this was a suitable place for them, I thought. Well, anyway, this rather incredible idea came into my head. I first told myself it couldn’t be but (“RIGHT”) then I did a few measurements and kept looking at it. And the truth was obvious. It was a trunk but not just any. I mean talk about karma. It is in fact — well, you know.
F: Yeah. You told me.
Q: What is it?
F: Well, you said it was some kind of — Ark Covenant.
Q: Right. The Ark of the Covenant.
F: Yeah.
Q: I guess me getting it is symbolic or something. I mean I don’t know what happened to the cherubim and the mercy seat or anything. But it’s definitely it. And I worked on “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.” (“IT’S”)
F: That’s kind of ironic, isn’t it?
Q: And I have one of those Indiana Jones jackets. You’ve seen that — my brown Indiana Jones jacket.
F: Yeah.
Q: It’s just funny.
F: Listen. I’ve got to go.
Q: Okay.
F: I’ve got a lunch date. I just realized how late it is. But let me call you when I get back this afternoon.
Q: I’m also checking into past life regression with a hypnotherapist.
F: Good. I’ll speak to you later.
Q: Okay, bye.
F: Bye.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH DAVID BOTSFORD, A CLINICAL HYPNOTHERAPIST.)
Q: Anyway, I’m working on a book which involves various so-called paranormal phenomena and what-have-you. I’m out of breath because I had to run upstairs to my office.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: Because if I don’t answer it within six rings it switches over to Pacific Bell Message Center. I called you because I received your brochure about hypnotherapy.
V: Okay.
Q: I was fascinated because you’ve obviously spent a lot of time and thought presenting your experience and background. You seem very dedicated. In the past, I’ve always been concerned that people who didn’t really know what they were doing could possibly plant various ideas into your head —
V: Right.
Q: — instead of just letting the truth come out. Whatever it may be.
V: Sure.
Q: Now in my case — let me tell you a little bit about my background. For the past seven years before working on my current book I was a marketing writer. And I worked on everything from the re-release of “The Ten Commandments” and “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade” to “Ghost” and “The Butcher’s Wife” to “Fire in the Sky” and “Star Trek Generations” to “Dead Again” and “Primal Fear.”
V: Right.
Q: You might have seen “Dead Again.”
V: Yes, I did. I think I did actually when it came out. Sure.
Q: Right. Have you ever done any previous life regressions?
V: Yes. I do that quite frequently with people.
Q: Really?
V: Oh yes. As a means of therapeutic tool. (“DID”)
Q: Do you have good results?
V: Yes. Very good. I mean, as you probably know, there’s several schools of thought about past life regression. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a way of dealing with an issue when somebody wants to change something in their present life. You can actually regress them back to a previous life and then the issue can be dealt with in that context.
Q: So do you find that people really can recall their previous incarnations under hypnosis?
V: Oh yes. Very much so.
Q: Who’s the most famous person you’ve had up until now?
V: Famous?
Q: In terms of past lives. Has there been anyone famous?
V: Well, most people haven’t come across as a historical figure but they come across as, say, a person who might have existed in the Middle Ages in Europe. Or it might have been —
Q: Well, see, I don’t know if I’ve had any previous lives but there’s this Entity which I think is an angel who also might be a poltergeist. He might be an alien. He might be everything and nothing. I mean who knows?
V: Right.
Q: But at one point He led me to some wrong conclusions or I led myself to some wrong conclusions so I think a hypnotherapy session might be a good way to end my book because it seems unending in terms of being a case study. I can find all these different parallels and connections in terms of synchronicity. What about you? Have you noticed a synchronicity in life?
V: Oh yeah. It’s a well-known phenomenon. I mean Carl Jung drew attention to the phenomenon of synchronicity. It does seem to have value and relevance.
Q: Like sometimes you’ll be listening to a song or you’ll be reading a poem or you’ll be watching a movie and you’ll say, “Well, my life ties in with that.”
V: Yes, that’s right. (“BUT”)
Q: But in my case everything ties in.
V: Sure. (“SO”)
Q: That’s why I’m in therapy now once a week with a psychic psychiatrist. But for whatever reasons her psychic ability doesn’t really pertain to her knowing anything about me.
V: Right.
Q: I guess it’s because if somebody really believes something is happening — psychically there’s no way of knowing otherwise. You don’t believe it but you don’t experience impressions of any alternative possibilities.
V: Quite.
Q: Anyway, it’s very interesting. What is your rate again for a past life regression?
V: Well, it’s $75 for a ninety minute session.
Q: And could I tape that?
V: Oh yes. Of course.
Q: Okay. Great. So why don’t we go ahead and schedule something?
V: Let me just get my diary. How about Thursday morning?
Q: Okay. Not too early but (“YOU KNOW”) — ten-thirtyish?
V: Yeah, that’s fine. Even eleven if you like. Do you want to make it eleven?
Q: Okay. Eleven.
V: Great. That’s this Thursday the thirtieth.
Q: Right.
V: Wonderful. Okay.
Q: That will be good to do that before the evening’s show. I’ll tell you about that afterwards because it sort of ties in with my case.
V: Sure. Have you been to the Renaissance Health Center before?
Q: I stopped by today because I didn’t know if it was a bookstore or exactly what it was.
V: Right. (“RIGHT”)
Q: I think I read or heard about it at the Whole Life Expo. Anyway, somehow I got steered in your direction.
V: Excellent. Well, that’s probably synchronicity. (laughs) (“WE”)
Q: Exactly. Now when you do regress me, I’m sure you’ll say all the usual things so I won’t be too overwhelmed about what I might or might not find out about myself. I mean, you’ll be able to do it in a careful way because I’m very squeamish and certain things may have happened. I even have possible alien experiences aboard UFOs and things.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: That’s one of the things that’s really been bothering me. I had some kind of dream once where I killed an alien.
V: Okay.
Q: And it just scares me to death. First of all, I don’t think you can kill an alien.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: But I mean it’s just sort of ironic that I might have done something like that. You know? (“YOU KNOW”) I don’t know. It’s bizarre. So I guess you’ll just have to be very open-minded.
V: Sure.
Q: The main thing I want to find out is if I have had any past lives. Especially if I had any past life around (“AROUND THE ARK”) when B.C. became A.D.
V: Okay.
Q: Because that seems to be the most momentous time for mankind and (“NOT O”) reaching the year 2000 is another momentous time.
V: Yes.
Q: So I’ll see you at eleven o’clock on Thursday.
V: Excellent.
Q: Do you have any recommendations to make? Should I have breakfast? Should I wear my contact lenses?
V: It’s probably best not to wear the contact lenses. Do you have glasses as well?
Q: Yes, I do.
V: Usually it’s okay but sometimes people find them a little bit distracting or uncomfortable.
Q: Well, there are a couple words that (“SSSSSSS”) sometimes when I say these two words my contact lenses fall out.
V: Oh really? How interesting.
Q: Yeah.
V: Okay.
Q: Oh, and by the way. There might be an unseen Entity with me when we do our session.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: Isn’t that interesting?
V: Okay. Sure.
Q: Okay, so I will see you then.
V: Wonderful, Mark. I look forward to seeing you at eleven o’clock on Thursday.
Q: Okay, bye.
V: Thank you. Bye.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MIKE PHELPS OF THE ANCIENT BIBLICAL RESEARCH CENTER.)
Q: Hi. This is Mark Russell Bell calling back. I spoke to you a few — I guess it’s been a couple months ago now. I had sent you that cryptogram.
P: Yes.
Q: Anyway, did you ever have a chance to read that book by Zecharia Sitchin?
P: No.
Q: Well, I did find out what the cryptogram meant. By the way, I’m working on that book I might have mentioned to you.
P: Um-huh.
Q: So I’m taping my calls to help me organize my thoughts. But that special is going to be on tomorrow night.
P: Hmm.
Q: It’s called “Ghosts, Mediums, Psychics: Put To The Test.”
P: Okay.
Q: So you might want to watch it.
P: What channel is it going to be on?
Q: Seven. So, anyway, I sent it to the woman who’s the president of the Hollywood Foreign Press Association because she’s Egyptian, I guess. And so she contacted a friend of hers who’s an expert and he was able to read it by holding it up to the mirror. I guess it means ‘zeaama.’ Are you familiar with that word?
P: Dial nine.
Q: Hmm?
P: I’m directing someone real quick. He’s using our phone.
Q: Oh.
P: You can say the word again. I heard you right up to that.
Q: ‘Zeaama.’
P: No, I’ve never heard that word.
Q: Well, anyway, I guess it just means leadership. But I’ve sort of figured out what’s going on.
P: Hmm.
Q: Do you have a minute? I’ll just tell you real quick.
P: Sure.
Q: Well — and don’t say anything until I’m done because it’s going to be very surprising.
P: Okay.
Q: Well, when you consider God has to find new ways to entertain themselves throughout eternity —
P: Okay.
Q: — and He seems to have quite a sense of humor — whatever is about to happen should be really fascinating. It seems life in fact may be one big morality —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I PAUSE MOMENTARILY HERE TO SEE IF MICHAEL WOULD ADD THE MESSAGE “CON” AGAIN. HE DIDN’T.)
Q: — test after all. I mean — if He isn’t content with mankind He can do anything He wants to find satisfaction.
P: Hmm.
Q: Whatever takes place we’ll get to see what kind of mood He’s in. (“BECAUSE WE’RE APPROACH”) You know, we’re approaching the year 2000. I don’t know if I’m His friend or being used for symbolic purposes; whether I’m extremely lucky or extremely unlucky; if I’m His son or soulmate; if I’m the reincarnation of Jesus or Bel-Marduk — or that’s who He is and I’m channeling Him. What He has shown me is that He is with each of us every moment of our lives and now it seems we each have the choice to decide for ourselves if there’s enough love inside of us for us individually to continue the relationship we have with Him throughout eternity. You know? Because I told you about that poltergeist who really was the angel Michael. So I guess I’m Son of Man.
P: Okay.
Q: Yeah.
P: That’s a pretty strong claim.
Q: Well, I’m not really claiming it. I’m just posing it.
P: Gotcha.
Q: That’s what my book is about.
P: The stand?
Q: What?
P: I understand. I — I’m totally —
Q: I mean I’ve been in denial about it, right?
P: Uh-huh.
Q: I’ve been in denial about it. It’s like I’ve gone through all these different phases.
P: Okay.
Q: And so now I’m in the acceptance phase.
P: Uh-huh.
Q: So I’m just very excited because since God is love it’s very exciting to me. One of the things he did was, three years ago before I even knew what was going, I bought (“THIS CH”) this steamer trunk.
P: Um-huh.
Q: At a local antique store. Guess what it is? It’s the Ark of the Covenant.
P: Okay.
Q: I measured it in cubits. (“YOU KNOW”)
P: Uh-huh.
Q: And it’s (“YOU KNOW”) I couldn’t believe it. I mean I was talking into my tape recorder as a joke and I said, “Well maybe the angel isn’t speaking to me because there’s no way He can. Maybe it’s impossible because there’s no Ark of the Covenant around.
P: Um-huh.
Q: And then I looked over at my trunk that I keep my press kits in and I realized (“YOU KNOW IT”) I said, “Well maybe.” And then I said, “No.” I guess He works through our subconscious minds and we can do whatever He wants us to. But He sort of made me aware of that (“AND FOR SOME”) to help other people realize what He can do.
P: Um-huh.
Q: Anyway, I can’t really put it into words and there’s so much that needs to be put into words. That’s why I’m doing this book.
P: Gotcha.
Q: It’s going to be called Testament.
P: (laughs) Is this the third Testament or —
Q: Yeah, because even though the original Jesus was a fairy tale (“THAT”) the truth that he taught to the world was the aspect of redemption. The Bible was intended to teach the ideal of redemption to mankind.
P: Yes.
Q: I mean there is no one Jesus or no one Virgin Mary. It’s just that they’re energy sources and various people can get close to the energy sources in various ways.
P: Okay.
Q: I think I did because I was sexually abused as a child and it caused a splinter of my personality to break off and come back with some other added consciousness.
P: Um-huh.
Q: So, basically, I’m very, very psychic, I guess.
P: I understand.
Q: You do understand? You don’t think I’m a raving lunatic?
P: Well, it’s hard to tell. I’ll be honest with you.
Q: Right.
P: The claims you’re making are very strong.
Q: Well, I don’t even (“UH-HUH”) intend them as claims. I’m just giving them to you as my perceptions.
P: Okay, well, your perception’s very strong and — (“SCARE”)
Q: Are they scary?
P: I’m directing somebody else to use the phone again. Go ahead and use that, Vick. Okay. Well, your perceptions are very strong and — (“I MEAN DO YOU”)
Q: Do you feel challenged by them? What are your feelings hearing this because I think you’re probably one of the few people that can really understand these things because of your background in terms of having studied religion. (“UM-HUH”)
P: Umm —
Q: Most people to whom I would mention Son of Man would think I was talking about something else.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE UNATTRIBUTED SOUND OF A HEARTBEAT BEGINS TO BE HEARD, OVERLAPPING, ON THE TAPE HERE AND BECOMES LOUDER THROUGH THE END OF THIS SIDE.)
P: Right. I mean the message that you have there as far as everyone has God within them or everyone is —
Q: Well, that’s true.
P: — related to God —
Q: Well, that’s true.
P: — and has the power to make their own choices and things like that so the message you’re talking about —
Q: But see in the Bible — (“PERIOD”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #21, SIDE #1 ENDS HERE.)
D: Oh. Well, I was a little girl and my mother was dead. And I had a housekeeper — a woman, you know. (“HUH”) And I was supposed to go to Sunday school every Sunday. They gave you little (“OOH”) stickers to show you’d been. And so I didn’t go and I paid somebody else to give me the stickers. I got a Bible or something like that for the stickers. And then I saw the angel standing in the corner of my bedroom looking very ashamed of me so I took the Bible back to the Sunday school.
Q: How old you were at the time?
D: Six. I took the Bible back and said that I had cheated.
Q: What did the angel look like?
D: Well, she was in robes. I mean she really looked like an angel that you see in pictures — wearing a long robe and there was something on her head. I don’t know what it was. A flower or something.
Q: And how old was the angel?
D: I should think in her forties or fifties.
Q: Because you wouldn’t think that angels would have an age.
D: I know but I mean she wasn’t a child like me. She was more like a woman. (“UM-HUH”) Here was a fairly young woman that looked very reproachfully at me. She didn’t speak but I knew I’d been doing something wrong.
Q: What do you think you’d been doing wrong?
D: Well, I bought those stickers instead of going to Sunday school to earn them. (“NO”) I paid children — “I’ll give you a penny for a sticker.” Because they’d gone to Sunday school.
Q: Do you think it was a dream?
D: Well, it’s hard to say, isn’t it? I mean I know I was very shaken, embarrassed — guilty. And so I took the Bible back. I couldn’t keep it because you had to have a full book of stickers before you got the Bible. (“YEAH”) I hadn’t been going to Sunday school. I’d been running around.
Q: So, of course, the question is how someone could evolve from a child who saw an angel into a woman almost ninety that doesn’t believe in God?
D: Well, that’s a long — that isn’t a very long story. But I can tell it to you. (“WHAT”) Do you want to hear it now?
Q: Very quickly.
D: Well, I was Anglo-Catholic. Do you know what that is? (“YEAH”) It’s like the Church of England. And it goes in for confession (“YEAH”) and all that sort of thing. There was a young priest—I was now sixteen or seventeen—and he was absolutely marvelous. He gave me a crucifix and told me to take it to bed with me at night. I mean he really was marvelous. (“RIGHT”) And when he gave the host into your hand when you go to communion he always gave me a special sort of little present. I thought, “Oh, isn’t he wonderful.” Then I went to Cambridge and, before I went, he said, “I’ll come up and see you.” So I said, “Fine.” So he arrived one day. Now this marvelous holy man that I thought was really religious — I mean I took this crucifix to bed with me night after night and prayed and fasted and did all sorts of things. Anyway, so he came to my corridor—I was living at Cambridge—and said, “We’ll go out to lunch.” And I said, “Yes.” So we went out to lunch. Now don’t forget that I was brought up in the strict English way not even to kiss. I was a virgin. I’d never had a boyfriend. Ever. And he said, “I don’t have to go back tonight but I’d like to take a room and have you stay with me.” And I was so shocked I got out of the car and I thought, “I’ll never believe anybody again.” He was ‘holy.’ (“HMMM”)
Q: It seems for most of your life you’ve been running away from men. (“BEG YOUR PARDON” “HMPF”)
D: So then I thought, (“HUH”) “Well, it’s all a lot of S — H — I — T.”
Q: Just because of one person?
D: He wasn’t being a priest to me. He was —
Q: But that’s just one person.
D: — preying upon my girlish beliefs; on my purity and honesty and all that.
Q: Well, yeah, but you can’t let one person take away your faith in everybody. (“YOU KNOW”)
D: If that’s what a man — what a priest does, I want no more of it.
Q: Yeah, but that’s (“HUH”) just one guy.
D: Tonight, that’s it. I’m trembling. I’ll talk to you again.
Q: Okay. (“IF YOU”) Hello? Doris?
D: Are you there, Michael? (“YEAH”)
Q: Did you say you had to go?
D: I can’t hear you.
Q: Are you going to go now?
D: Not really.
Q: Oh, okay. (“OHH”) You know last time I called you, do you remember when you could hear Michael speaking on the phone and making those meowing noises?
D: Yes.
Q: He’s not making any noises now. (“I”) I wonder why — where he is at the moment. Anyway — what did you just say? Did you say you had to go or something?
D: No no no. But I have to finish my wickedness later on. Because from that point, I did something very wicked and didn’t care.
Q: What did you do?
D: Oh dear. I met a man (“YEAH”) in Paris. And I was going to Copenhagen. (“YEAH”) I told him where I was going to be and I went. Then, the next day he arrived at the hotel and said, “Well, I’ve come to see you.” And I said, “Oh, marvelous.” And he said, “But I have to tell you that I’m a priest.” And I said, “Oh?”
Q: Run!
D: “Oh?” So I said, “You mean you want to sleep with me?” And he said, “Yes.” (“YES”)
Q: Oh my God.
D: And I thought, “Now I’ve got my revenge.”
Q: Wow. Well, I think you’ve given me a lot to think about. I’m not a Catholic personally.
D: Pardon?
Q: I’m not a Catholic, of course. I’m just about everything else except a Catholic.
D: Okay.
Q: Okay, well then have a good night. I just wanted to say hello.
D: Yes. Thank you for calling, Mark.
Q: Okay.
D: Very nice. Thank you.
Q: Okay, bye. (“YOUR MOTHER”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I RECORD THE FOLLOWING DURING A GROUP DISCUSSION AT MY HOTLINE TRAINING CLASS AFTER MY FRIEND WILLIAM MENTIONS THE FILM “LONGTIME COMPANION.”)
Q: He mentioned “Longtime Companion” so I have to say something. I watched it when there was a marathon on one of the cable TV stations with all these different AIDS programs. So I finally said, “Oh good, I’ve always wanted to (“UH-HUH”) see this” and I watched it. But when I watched it, there was something wrong with the times that I was taping it so the ending got cut off so I didn’t get to see the ending. It ended for me with the angel appearing to the dying man with AIDS. So it was the union of the angel and the man that I saw which was the end of the film for me.
( . . . )
Q: (talking into tape recorder the following morning) Whoops. I meant “Parting Glances.” The movie I meant is “Parting Glances.” I always get those two movies mixed up.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY FRIEND FIONA.)
Q: I’m having one of those days.
F: What’s going on?
Q: Well, when I went to get my hair and beard trimmed at my usual place — Dusty Fleming. They had given me an appointment on my haircutter’s day off.
F: Oh, you’re kidding.
Q: It was okay. I met this lady named Zoya and she was very nice. Did you hear that they canceled “American Playhouse” on PBS?
F: They did? How come?
Q: Republican politics. And I found out that one of my friends might be an undercover agent. I received a phone bill for $200 because I gave my Pacific Bell calling card to the family in Oklahoma.
F: When you were in hospital I told Mike to cancel it. I said to him, “They’re going to be calling the whole world.” And he said, “No, they wouldn’t do that.” I knew they would.
Q: I don’t think they’re doing that. It’s just that, see, the number I gave them was for my local service so whatever phone they use determines the long distance rate. So there are different rates. For two minutes it costs $10 on one of the charges. Anyway, I’ve taken care of the problem by witching to MCI and I gave them that card number to use when calling me. (“SO”) So that will —
F: Oh God. Why do you have to pay for their phone bill?
Q: Well, they don’t have any money. But, anyway, I’m not worried about that. What else? Oh, get this. CPC Alhambra called me this morning and apparently Blue Cross is not going to cover the bill.
F: How come?
Q: I don’t know because the whole thing was stipulated on the fact that my insurance would cover it. Usually they check that out before they admit you. (“SO”) I have a thousand dollar deductible so I’m going to insist that Blue Cross honors our agreement and covers it.
F: Well, they should.
Q: What is wrong with the health care industry? I mean everyone connected with it should read that Dickens book Dombey and Son. But, anyway, enough about that. By the way, (“I GET”) on Thursday night the show is going to be on. The final title is “Ghosts, Mediums, Psychics: Put To The Test.” It’s at eight o’clock on ABC.
F: What’s this about?
Q: The Oklahoma family. They’re interviewed for a half hour.
F: But listen. Why do you have to pay for these people’s phone calls?
Q: They don’t have any money.
F: So what? You gave them a chunk of change.
Q: I have to speak to them for updates and to ask them spelling questions.
F: Yeah, but they’re calling everybody else.
Q: No. I’m hoping to finish the book soon so. They’re not calling as much anymore. They’re friends. I’m not really worried about that. But the reason why I called you is that before James left to go to Egypt he suggested for my book I ask you about the time you took a trip to Oklahoma. Do you remember that?
F: Yeah.
Q: Why did you go there?
F: I went to interview S. E. Hinton.
Q: The author of Rumble Fish?
F: Yeah. She lives in Tulsa.
Q: How did you get that job? James thought it was unusual that both you and I ended up visiting Oklahoma.
F: Well, she’s one of my favorite writers and I was commissioned by a magazine called Southwest Spirit to go to Tulsa and interview her.
Q: Tulsa isn’t too far away from where I was. Coalgate and Centrahoma are approximately halfway between Oklahoma City and Tulsa but to the south. So you didn’t make your way anywhere close to Coalgate or Coal County?
F: No.
Q: The area is the weird capital of the world — another Bermuda Triangle.
F: Is it?
Q: Yeah. It’s like —
F: I thought Tulsa was pretty weird, though.
Q: What happened?
F: Nothing happened. It’s just a weird place because — hang on a second. Don’t go away.
Q: Okay. (“OKAY”)
F: Hello?
Q: Hi. I’m picking up Japanese on my receiver and its very loud so I hope it doesn’t interfere with taping and transcribing. Can you hear it?
F: Tulsa is in the middle of the Bible Belt. And the hotel I was staying at was called The Camelot Hotel. It was right near the Oral Roberts Church where the praying hands were and half the people I met were complete Bible fanatics. It’s bizarre. But she was really nice. I was only there one night. I stayed at the hotel and I interviewed her the next day. And she drove me around and showed me Tulsa which has changed a lot since she grew up. And I didn’t see very much. I didn’t have a car there. I just tooled around basically. I didn’t see anything. I thought it was a pretty weird place though because of all the religious stuff.
Q: Something major has happened since I last spoke to you.
F: To you?
Q: Want to hear it for a moment? Do you have a minute or two?
F: Yeah.
Q: I have a very fascinating story for you. Last week, I was talking into my tape recorder to organize my thoughts and one of the things I said is — well words can’t express — this is just something momentous. (“IT”) In a long series of extraordinary coincidences, it’s probably the most remarkable one. Three years ago, remember I was looking for something to keep all my press kits in.
F: You told me this story.
Q: Oh, I did?
F: Yeah.
Q: Well, let me go ahead and just finish real quick because I’ll give you more details. (“SOMETHING MORE”) I wanted something more interesting than a filing cabinet and I saw this beautiful old dome-top trunk outside an antique store down the street from the Nuart Theatre. I didn’t know what it was. Some kind of metal with wood reinforcements — a burnished gold color but with colorful flowers painted all over it. Anyway, it was just what I was looking for to hold my press kits. A lot of hard work and love went into my work writing and editing the production information for all those films to capture what made them unique and compelling. Movies are magic and the best ones inspire people and show them beautiful truths. I worked anonymously and without any degree of personal ego to present the ideas and truths that distinguished each film — a lot of creativity went into them. So this was a suitable place for them, I thought. Well, anyway, this rather incredible idea came into my head. I first told myself it couldn’t be but (“RIGHT”) then I did a few measurements and kept looking at it. And the truth was obvious. It was a trunk but not just any. I mean talk about karma. It is in fact — well, you know.
F: Yeah. You told me.
Q: What is it?
F: Well, you said it was some kind of — Ark Covenant.
Q: Right. The Ark of the Covenant.
F: Yeah.
Q: I guess me getting it is symbolic or something. I mean I don’t know what happened to the cherubim and the mercy seat or anything. But it’s definitely it. And I worked on “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.” (“IT’S”)
F: That’s kind of ironic, isn’t it?
Q: And I have one of those Indiana Jones jackets. You’ve seen that — my brown Indiana Jones jacket.
F: Yeah.
Q: It’s just funny.
F: Listen. I’ve got to go.
Q: Okay.
F: I’ve got a lunch date. I just realized how late it is. But let me call you when I get back this afternoon.
Q: I’m also checking into past life regression with a hypnotherapist.
F: Good. I’ll speak to you later.
Q: Okay, bye.
F: Bye.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH DAVID BOTSFORD, A CLINICAL HYPNOTHERAPIST.)
Q: Anyway, I’m working on a book which involves various so-called paranormal phenomena and what-have-you. I’m out of breath because I had to run upstairs to my office.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: Because if I don’t answer it within six rings it switches over to Pacific Bell Message Center. I called you because I received your brochure about hypnotherapy.
V: Okay.
Q: I was fascinated because you’ve obviously spent a lot of time and thought presenting your experience and background. You seem very dedicated. In the past, I’ve always been concerned that people who didn’t really know what they were doing could possibly plant various ideas into your head —
V: Right.
Q: — instead of just letting the truth come out. Whatever it may be.
V: Sure.
Q: Now in my case — let me tell you a little bit about my background. For the past seven years before working on my current book I was a marketing writer. And I worked on everything from the re-release of “The Ten Commandments” and “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade” to “Ghost” and “The Butcher’s Wife” to “Fire in the Sky” and “Star Trek Generations” to “Dead Again” and “Primal Fear.”
V: Right.
Q: You might have seen “Dead Again.”
V: Yes, I did. I think I did actually when it came out. Sure.
Q: Right. Have you ever done any previous life regressions?
V: Yes. I do that quite frequently with people.
Q: Really?
V: Oh yes. As a means of therapeutic tool. (“DID”)
Q: Do you have good results?
V: Yes. Very good. I mean, as you probably know, there’s several schools of thought about past life regression. As far as I’m concerned, it’s a way of dealing with an issue when somebody wants to change something in their present life. You can actually regress them back to a previous life and then the issue can be dealt with in that context.
Q: So do you find that people really can recall their previous incarnations under hypnosis?
V: Oh yes. Very much so.
Q: Who’s the most famous person you’ve had up until now?
V: Famous?
Q: In terms of past lives. Has there been anyone famous?
V: Well, most people haven’t come across as a historical figure but they come across as, say, a person who might have existed in the Middle Ages in Europe. Or it might have been —
Q: Well, see, I don’t know if I’ve had any previous lives but there’s this Entity which I think is an angel who also might be a poltergeist. He might be an alien. He might be everything and nothing. I mean who knows?
V: Right.
Q: But at one point He led me to some wrong conclusions or I led myself to some wrong conclusions so I think a hypnotherapy session might be a good way to end my book because it seems unending in terms of being a case study. I can find all these different parallels and connections in terms of synchronicity. What about you? Have you noticed a synchronicity in life?
V: Oh yeah. It’s a well-known phenomenon. I mean Carl Jung drew attention to the phenomenon of synchronicity. It does seem to have value and relevance.
Q: Like sometimes you’ll be listening to a song or you’ll be reading a poem or you’ll be watching a movie and you’ll say, “Well, my life ties in with that.”
V: Yes, that’s right. (“BUT”)
Q: But in my case everything ties in.
V: Sure. (“SO”)
Q: That’s why I’m in therapy now once a week with a psychic psychiatrist. But for whatever reasons her psychic ability doesn’t really pertain to her knowing anything about me.
V: Right.
Q: I guess it’s because if somebody really believes something is happening — psychically there’s no way of knowing otherwise. You don’t believe it but you don’t experience impressions of any alternative possibilities.
V: Quite.
Q: Anyway, it’s very interesting. What is your rate again for a past life regression?
V: Well, it’s $75 for a ninety minute session.
Q: And could I tape that?
V: Oh yes. Of course.
Q: Okay. Great. So why don’t we go ahead and schedule something?
V: Let me just get my diary. How about Thursday morning?
Q: Okay. Not too early but (“YOU KNOW”) — ten-thirtyish?
V: Yeah, that’s fine. Even eleven if you like. Do you want to make it eleven?
Q: Okay. Eleven.
V: Great. That’s this Thursday the thirtieth.
Q: Right.
V: Wonderful. Okay.
Q: That will be good to do that before the evening’s show. I’ll tell you about that afterwards because it sort of ties in with my case.
V: Sure. Have you been to the Renaissance Health Center before?
Q: I stopped by today because I didn’t know if it was a bookstore or exactly what it was.
V: Right. (“RIGHT”)
Q: I think I read or heard about it at the Whole Life Expo. Anyway, somehow I got steered in your direction.
V: Excellent. Well, that’s probably synchronicity. (laughs) (“WE”)
Q: Exactly. Now when you do regress me, I’m sure you’ll say all the usual things so I won’t be too overwhelmed about what I might or might not find out about myself. I mean, you’ll be able to do it in a careful way because I’m very squeamish and certain things may have happened. I even have possible alien experiences aboard UFOs and things.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: That’s one of the things that’s really been bothering me. I had some kind of dream once where I killed an alien.
V: Okay.
Q: And it just scares me to death. First of all, I don’t think you can kill an alien.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: But I mean it’s just sort of ironic that I might have done something like that. You know? (“YOU KNOW”) I don’t know. It’s bizarre. So I guess you’ll just have to be very open-minded.
V: Sure.
Q: The main thing I want to find out is if I have had any past lives. Especially if I had any past life around (“AROUND THE ARK”) when B.C. became A.D.
V: Okay.
Q: Because that seems to be the most momentous time for mankind and (“NOT O”) reaching the year 2000 is another momentous time.
V: Yes.
Q: So I’ll see you at eleven o’clock on Thursday.
V: Excellent.
Q: Do you have any recommendations to make? Should I have breakfast? Should I wear my contact lenses?
V: It’s probably best not to wear the contact lenses. Do you have glasses as well?
Q: Yes, I do.
V: Usually it’s okay but sometimes people find them a little bit distracting or uncomfortable.
Q: Well, there are a couple words that (“SSSSSSS”) sometimes when I say these two words my contact lenses fall out.
V: Oh really? How interesting.
Q: Yeah.
V: Okay.
Q: Oh, and by the way. There might be an unseen Entity with me when we do our session.
V: Uh-huh.
Q: Isn’t that interesting?
V: Okay. Sure.
Q: Okay, so I will see you then.
V: Wonderful, Mark. I look forward to seeing you at eleven o’clock on Thursday.
Q: Okay, bye.
V: Thank you. Bye.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MIKE PHELPS OF THE ANCIENT BIBLICAL RESEARCH CENTER.)
Q: Hi. This is Mark Russell Bell calling back. I spoke to you a few — I guess it’s been a couple months ago now. I had sent you that cryptogram.
P: Yes.
Q: Anyway, did you ever have a chance to read that book by Zecharia Sitchin?
P: No.
Q: Well, I did find out what the cryptogram meant. By the way, I’m working on that book I might have mentioned to you.
P: Um-huh.
Q: So I’m taping my calls to help me organize my thoughts. But that special is going to be on tomorrow night.
P: Hmm.
Q: It’s called “Ghosts, Mediums, Psychics: Put To The Test.”
P: Okay.
Q: So you might want to watch it.
P: What channel is it going to be on?
Q: Seven. So, anyway, I sent it to the woman who’s the president of the Hollywood Foreign Press Association because she’s Egyptian, I guess. And so she contacted a friend of hers who’s an expert and he was able to read it by holding it up to the mirror. I guess it means ‘zeaama.’ Are you familiar with that word?
P: Dial nine.
Q: Hmm?
P: I’m directing someone real quick. He’s using our phone.
Q: Oh.
P: You can say the word again. I heard you right up to that.
Q: ‘Zeaama.’
P: No, I’ve never heard that word.
Q: Well, anyway, I guess it just means leadership. But I’ve sort of figured out what’s going on.
P: Hmm.
Q: Do you have a minute? I’ll just tell you real quick.
P: Sure.
Q: Well — and don’t say anything until I’m done because it’s going to be very surprising.
P: Okay.
Q: Well, when you consider God has to find new ways to entertain themselves throughout eternity —
P: Okay.
Q: — and He seems to have quite a sense of humor — whatever is about to happen should be really fascinating. It seems life in fact may be one big morality —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I PAUSE MOMENTARILY HERE TO SEE IF MICHAEL WOULD ADD THE MESSAGE “CON” AGAIN. HE DIDN’T.)
Q: — test after all. I mean — if He isn’t content with mankind He can do anything He wants to find satisfaction.
P: Hmm.
Q: Whatever takes place we’ll get to see what kind of mood He’s in. (“BECAUSE WE’RE APPROACH”) You know, we’re approaching the year 2000. I don’t know if I’m His friend or being used for symbolic purposes; whether I’m extremely lucky or extremely unlucky; if I’m His son or soulmate; if I’m the reincarnation of Jesus or Bel-Marduk — or that’s who He is and I’m channeling Him. What He has shown me is that He is with each of us every moment of our lives and now it seems we each have the choice to decide for ourselves if there’s enough love inside of us for us individually to continue the relationship we have with Him throughout eternity. You know? Because I told you about that poltergeist who really was the angel Michael. So I guess I’m Son of Man.
P: Okay.
Q: Yeah.
P: That’s a pretty strong claim.
Q: Well, I’m not really claiming it. I’m just posing it.
P: Gotcha.
Q: That’s what my book is about.
P: The stand?
Q: What?
P: I understand. I — I’m totally —
Q: I mean I’ve been in denial about it, right?
P: Uh-huh.
Q: I’ve been in denial about it. It’s like I’ve gone through all these different phases.
P: Okay.
Q: And so now I’m in the acceptance phase.
P: Uh-huh.
Q: So I’m just very excited because since God is love it’s very exciting to me. One of the things he did was, three years ago before I even knew what was going, I bought (“THIS CH”) this steamer trunk.
P: Um-huh.
Q: At a local antique store. Guess what it is? It’s the Ark of the Covenant.
P: Okay.
Q: I measured it in cubits. (“YOU KNOW”)
P: Uh-huh.
Q: And it’s (“YOU KNOW”) I couldn’t believe it. I mean I was talking into my tape recorder as a joke and I said, “Well maybe the angel isn’t speaking to me because there’s no way He can. Maybe it’s impossible because there’s no Ark of the Covenant around.
P: Um-huh.
Q: And then I looked over at my trunk that I keep my press kits in and I realized (“YOU KNOW IT”) I said, “Well maybe.” And then I said, “No.” I guess He works through our subconscious minds and we can do whatever He wants us to. But He sort of made me aware of that (“AND FOR SOME”) to help other people realize what He can do.
P: Um-huh.
Q: Anyway, I can’t really put it into words and there’s so much that needs to be put into words. That’s why I’m doing this book.
P: Gotcha.
Q: It’s going to be called Testament.
P: (laughs) Is this the third Testament or —
Q: Yeah, because even though the original Jesus was a fairy tale (“THAT”) the truth that he taught to the world was the aspect of redemption. The Bible was intended to teach the ideal of redemption to mankind.
P: Yes.
Q: I mean there is no one Jesus or no one Virgin Mary. It’s just that they’re energy sources and various people can get close to the energy sources in various ways.
P: Okay.
Q: I think I did because I was sexually abused as a child and it caused a splinter of my personality to break off and come back with some other added consciousness.
P: Um-huh.
Q: So, basically, I’m very, very psychic, I guess.
P: I understand.
Q: You do understand? You don’t think I’m a raving lunatic?
P: Well, it’s hard to tell. I’ll be honest with you.
Q: Right.
P: The claims you’re making are very strong.
Q: Well, I don’t even (“UH-HUH”) intend them as claims. I’m just giving them to you as my perceptions.
P: Okay, well, your perception’s very strong and — (“SCARE”)
Q: Are they scary?
P: I’m directing somebody else to use the phone again. Go ahead and use that, Vick. Okay. Well, your perceptions are very strong and — (“I MEAN DO YOU”)
Q: Do you feel challenged by them? What are your feelings hearing this because I think you’re probably one of the few people that can really understand these things because of your background in terms of having studied religion. (“UM-HUH”)
P: Umm —
Q: Most people to whom I would mention Son of Man would think I was talking about something else.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE UNATTRIBUTED SOUND OF A HEARTBEAT BEGINS TO BE HEARD, OVERLAPPING, ON THE TAPE HERE AND BECOMES LOUDER THROUGH THE END OF THIS SIDE.)
P: Right. I mean the message that you have there as far as everyone has God within them or everyone is —
Q: Well, that’s true.
P: — related to God —
Q: Well, that’s true.
P: — and has the power to make their own choices and things like that so the message you’re talking about —
Q: But see in the Bible — (“PERIOD”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #21, SIDE #1 ENDS HERE.)
