RADIO INTERVIEW — TAPE #782
Q: Mark Russell Bell
A: taped announcer
L: Lan Lamphere, host of “The Edge” radio show
E: Jesse, caller
T: Taira McKenzie, producer of “The Edge”
S: Scott Lamphere, guest
C: Cheryl Castro, “CNN Radio World News” newscaster
U: Paul Bremer (news clip)
I: Maggie, caller
V: Everett, caller
K: Kevin, board operator of “The Edge”
(X): (unattributed sounds occasionally noted as samples)
. . . We’re seeing things in a different way and God knows it ain’t His It sure ain’t no surprise We’re living on the edge . . .
(“Livin’ On The Edge” performed by Aerosmith)
L: My name’s Lan Lamphere. You are listening to “The Edge.” That’s right. “The Edge” right here on Super Talk 930 WKY in Oklahoma City, Oklahoma. We’re on every Monday through Friday from 11 until 2 a.m. I got Jesse who happens to be a male and he’s on the phone. Hey Jesse, what’s up? Welcome to “The Edge.”
E: Yeah, well when I was born my grandmother told me I was born with a veil over my face because I was born way out in the country in a little house. And she said I’d be able to see things. And I’ll tell you something. I have seen some things that — that — I don’t know how people can stand to see things a lot because it’s so hard on you physically and that — it almost scares you to death to see something or hear something that’s not there.
E: I — I went — I was telling him how one day I went near a truck stop.
L: Telling who?
E: The guy that —
L: Oh. Producer. Okay.
E: — the screener. Yeah.
E: And he said — I went to this — I went to a truck stop and I saw a guy sitting in a booth. And the guy was smiling at me and his eyes — he — he had the eyes of a snake. And I — and I — I wiped my eyes again and I looked away — and I wiped my eyes again. I looked at him and he was still looking that —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE CARTOONISH VOICE COULD BE HEARD AGAIN WITH GIBBERISH THAT WAS HARD TO HEAR WHILE THE CALLER CONTINUED TALKING.)
E: And I said, “I can’t believe this.” So I just turned around and walked out. And then I was going down —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: LAN THEN PLAYED THE SOUND EFFECT OF CARTOONISH LAUGHTER AGAIN BUT THE CALLER IGNORED IT AND CONTINUED.)
E: — the road one day and a house was burning. (“N”) And I started to call the fire department. And I said I better wait and see because they’re probably already on their way to the house. It’s completely engulfed. And on the way back from where I was coming from, the house was still standing.
L: I’ll be darned.
E: One day I was taking a shower — not long ago. Just a few months ago. And the soap just flew out of my hand and — and stood on edge in the tub
L: (small laugh)
E: And I said, “This can’t be happening to me. I know it can’t.” And I got down and looked at it and everything. So my wife didn’t believe it. So the next day I was showering again —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: LAN PLAYED A CLIP OF A COMMENT SOUNDING LIKE “ALCOHOL IS BAD” AND THE CALLER IGNORED IT AND CONTINUED TALKING.)
E: — and it did the same thing. And I called her in and she looked at it. She looked — I’ll tell you what I did. I dropped that soap a hundred times. I counted them. And it never, never stood on edge.
E: But it did that before and I mean that — that’s worse than that.
L: Do you believe in ghosts?
E: Oh definitely. Definitely. I — I believe —
L: Have you ever seen one?
E: I’ll tell you the most I ever saw was when my — my daughter passed —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: LAN PLAYED A CLIP OF CARTOONISH SINGING.)
E: — and my wife kept telling me — she said — she said, “I seen something. I — I can — I can hear voices.” I said, “Oh you’re crazy. You — you don’t need to sleep over on the edge of that bed.” Because I sleep next to the wall. So I said, “Let me get over and sleep there. You know, I got over there and I was laying there asleep. And all of a sudden — my daughter had just passed when she — she drowned. And all of a sudden I — I — I felt something. A little hand just rubbed all the way down my arm and I jumped up in the bed. And I went, “Oh golly.” And — and I looked. And all of a sudden I saw a shadow go into the bathroom where we kept the night light. Now I’m telling you, man.
E: You know — and before my daughter died —
E: — me and my boy was on the way home in the truck. And I said, “Son” — I said, “What — what are all those owls doing on the telephone poles?” And he said, “Dad, I don’t know.” But he said, “It’s an owl on every telephone pole that we go by.” And I said, “Ain’t enough owls in Oklahoma to be on telephone poles like that.”
L: (small laugh) Now that’s true.
E: And — and when we got home, an owl was sitting on a pole above our house. And it — and it — and it just hooted all night long. And the next day I went out — me and my boy. They called us while we were out and said my daughter had — had an accident and drowned.
L: Oh I’m sorry to hear that. I really am.
E: Well I — you know, it’s just things like that. (“I”) There was one incident where I was in a car and I mean you know it just goes on and on. And I parked at a place. And I look and this girl says, “Why did you park here?” And I said, “Well it’s a fine, good place. Nobody’s around,” you know. (X)
E: Weeds everywhere. And all off a sudden I heard some moaning and groaning in the water. And I said — I said, “Erica, did you hear that?” And she said, “I didn’t hear nothing.” And I said, “Wait a minute. I hear something.” So I rolled the window down and I — I looked in the water and whatever it was had came across the pond. And I looked out the door and down into the water because I was parked next to a little pond. And whatever it was, it just moaned and groaned real loud right up in my face.
E: And I told her — I said, “We got to get out of here. I can’t take this. There’s something wrong right here.” We went back . . .
L: Where — where was this in Oklahoma? What part of Oklahoma were you in?
E: This was right near — right here around Oklahoma City.
E: And so the next day I got my boy together and I said, “Man, I ain’t believing this. (X) There’s something wrong here.” And I’m telling you we went back to the same spot and the water, the pond, everything had disappeared. There was nothing there. (“THE”)
L: The whole place disappeared?
E: The whole place had disappeared.
L: That’s amazing, man. I appreciate your calling “The Edge” tonight.
E: All right.
L: Thanks a lot. I — what the hell? Anyhow — man, freaks come out at night. Don’t they? Anyway — (laughs) just saying. “Look, and go our website www.the-edge.ws and you can learn a little bit more about this radio program and myself. You can see me all dressed up like I come right out of Reloaded. And we also have a live chatroom over there. And we’re actually in it right now. So you can go over there and talk with a lot of people from all over the world, including Germany. Everybody. (small laugh) (“YOU”) If you’re online, you can listen to us. It’s not a problem. Just download and install winamp. Go to winamp.com, install it on your computer, go back to “The Edge” website and when it says “on air” partake of the goodness that is “The Edge” right there online if you want to. Anyhow, and I hate that — and there’s a lot of strange things that do take place. Now I’ve had some strange things happen to me but some of them were just over the edge. You know? I — I just think that some people need to take their medication more regularly is what I think. But —
T: Either that or lay off the cough syrup.
L: Yeah, lay off the cough syrup. Exactly. Anyway, we’ve got Mark Russell Bell on and he believes that he has an answer to a lot of these things. Mark, let me ask you a question. You still with me?
Q: Yeah, I’m still here.
L: Okay, right on, man. We were talking about what you believe as far as religion, okay? Religion, god, the Christ Consciousness, so forth and so on. Do you believe in Jesus Christ?
Q: I believe that Jesus Christ is actually two different entities. There was Jesus of Nazareth —
Q: — who was a Christed one by the Christ Force.
L: What? You want to explain that to me? I’ve got a feeling that a lot of people are going to disagree with you but go ahead anyway.
Q: Well (“IT’S”) it’s really hard to put into words but I — after my experiences, at first when I came back to L.A. I was wondering, “Well why is all this happening to me?” Maybe I’m the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. So my first impulse was to see if I could heal people. So there was a neighbor who was crippled and I tried to heal him by (“MY”) — by shaking his hand and it didn’t do any good. So I said, “Well that’s a relief. I don’t have the power of healing.” So I started researching Jesus Christ. I —
L: You actually think that you’re the reincarnation of Jesus Christ?
Q: No — well mm — Jesus Christ, again, is two different people.
L: Okay so you’re —
Q: So —
L: — the first person.
Q: — metaphorically, I certainly would say I am one of those Christed ones. So, anyway, I was researching —
L: Is that why you named your book Testament? And then your new book New Testament?
Q: Well it was — well first of all I had always planned to call my book Testament about famous unexplained cases in history. I actually had registered the title before I ever went to Oklahoma. So I ended up using that title for my book. (“RIGHT” “N”) Then for the — so for the follow-up book that was published on the Internet I went ahead (a)n(d) — and called that New Testament. But so, anyway, when I was researching Jesus Christ I read a lot of interesting things but probably the most interesting thing that I saw was when I came to the book by Zechariah Sitchin — (“IN”) the book The Wars of Gods and Men. I basically looked up Jesus in the index, as I’m looking at right now. And it said “Jesus,” page “224.” So I went to the top of the page and this is what I read:
The record of Marduk’s entombment, alive, within the Great Pyramid has been preserved on clay tablets found in the ruins of Ashur and Ninevah, the ancient Assyrian capitals. The Ashur text suggests that it had served as a script for a New Year’s mystery play in Babylon that reenacted the god’s suffering and reprieve. But neither the original Babylonian version, nor the Sumerian historical text on which the script was based, have so far been found.
Heinrich Zimmern, who transcribed and translated the Ashur text from clay tablets in the Berlin Museum, created quite a stir in theological circles when he announced its interpretation at a lecture in September 1921.
L: Hold on just a second, okay? Kevin, I want you to get Scotty on the phone. He’s my brother. He’s a theologian. And he’s going to do that here in just a minute, okay? Go ahead, I’m listening.
Q: (continuing reading from the book)
The reason was that he interpreted it as a pre-Christian Mysterium dealing with the death and resurrection of a god, and thus an earlier Christ tale. When Stephen Langdon included an English translation in his 1923 volume on the Mesopotamian New Year Mystery Texts, he titled the text The Death and Resurrection of Bel-Marduk and highlighted its parallels to the New Testament tale of the death and resurrection of Jesus.
But, as the text relates, Marduk or Bel (“The Lord”) did not die; he was indeed incarcerated inside The Mountain as in a tomb; but he was entombed alive. L: And that’s why you think that Paramount Pictures is — emblem of a mountain is a religious symbol.
Q: That’s just the tip of the iceberg.
Q: You have to remember for a while I was — I would be walking down the street or at the gym and people I never even met before seemed to be talking about me. I mean they were talking about other people—other friends and acquaintances—but yet it was exactly relevant to my exact experience at the time. And this has continued, I must say, by the way. For example, I do work for a living and —
L: (mock gasp)
Q: Well —
L: Go ahead. I’m just joking. Go ahead.
Q: I mean — I mean that’s (“O[NE]”) one of the things that I — I’ve learned was —
L: You had to work?
Q: — not to work in the corrupt corporate Hollywood system.
Q: I mean if ever —
L: That’s the reason why you were saying earlier that you (“NO”) would never go back to a movie or . . .
Q: Well — it — it’s a form of mind control. I look (or “I LOOK”) — I look upon films and TV shows (“AS”) as a form of (“MI”) mind control.
L: Really? In what way?
Q: Well there are a lot of people whose consciousness is such that for them life is really close to being just imitations of what they see in movies and TV shows. They’re not even conscious of it.
L: Everybody’s life is that way.
Q: My life isn’t.
L: Everyone — I mean they — wait a minute. Wait. Let me see. Here’s the reason why in my opinion, okay?, is because people who have normal lives write screenplays about people with abnormal lives. And then we go watch it on television. Or we watch it in a movie.
Q: I have never seen a single film or TV show where the people react emotionally the way people really do in real life.
L: What about “South Park”? Man, that’s — that’s a great show. That’s a reality series. You ever seen “South Park”?
Q: I do not watch — that was one of the first things that happened to me when I came back from Oklahoma is I could not watch television.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: LAN PLAYED THE SOUND EFFECT OF CARTOONISH LAUGHTER AGAIN YET IT WASN’T AUDIBLE THIS TIME ON MY TELEPHONE LINE.)
Q: For example, one night I turned on the TV set to take a break from transcribing my interviews. I turned on MTV’s “The Real World.” And a(t) —
L: That’s a great show.
Q: — the pre(cise) — this was set in London. And at the precise moment I turned on the TV, the roommates in London were saying — were complaining (X) that their telephone wasn’t working all of a sudden. So that created a parallel between that whole business about the flat tire and about the sermons. The Entity basically was showing me the power They have over the dimensions of space and time. And then the TV flipped off. In fact, whenever I would try to watch TV, it would go off. I could not watch television. But sometimes —
L: Maybe it was Jesus — the Jesus in you coming out and turning . . .
Q: No, it was the Christ Consciousness —
L: Oh I . . .
Q: — communicating to me. So, anyway, since Michael/Mighael is the Angel of the commandments and what-have-you, the TV (“O[NCE]”) o(nce) — once went on and it must’ve been some commercial but the person was saying, “Love is the only religion.” Blip — the TV went — went off. So I was getting commandments being communicated to me too.
L: Wait a moment. Hold on, okay. I — I got — can — can you take a — can you hold that thought here —
L: — because we’ll come back to it. But I got a caller. I’ve got a bunch of calls actually of people who want to talk to you. The phones are open, by the way. You can give us a call at (gives number). That’s (gives number). Or you can call us on our toll-free number. I don’t know if it’s working or not but I think it is. It’s (gives number). Give us a call tonight if you’ve got any questions for Mr. Mark Russell Bell. And I know I’ve got somebody on the line. His name’s Scotty. He’s my brother. He’s in Minneapolis, Minnesota. Hey, Scott.
S: Hey, Lan.
L: Hey, how’s it going? I know you had a question for Mark here because I know (“YOU”) you were in seminary for a long time. Is it possible — I’ve got a question for you, okay? Alright?
L: Is it possible for anyone to be Jesus Christ? Or to at least have the Christ Consciousness, which I can buy into that because I — I have a feeling —
S: I can tell you when we — when I was a youth pastor long — many years ago, I used to tell my kids to — to “Achieve a Christ consciousness” but it was to be conscious of the way Christ acted — to emulate him. Not to actually (X) be (or “BE”) channel Him or become Him or (or “OO[R]”) be the resurrection of Him. That’s — that’s — I’ve got to tell you I’m listening to Mark and — and the first question I want to ask and I oh — you know, Lan — Lan’s got to be kind of polite because he’s the host there but I want to ask what the hell do you believe and what are you smoking? Because I’ve listened to you and (“I”) I — you sound like you’re making your beliefs up as you go.
L: Oh, you got to be fair, Scotty. I don’t think he’s actually doing that.
S: It’s the most ridiculous — (“A I I”) I’m so lost listening to you to try — I tried to formulate a question on a couple of things and you jumped right into another topic.
L: Well I’ve been kind of trying to figure out what’s going on too. Now I — I have to, you know, take responsibility there, Scott. I’ve been trying — I’ve been jumping around trying to figure out what’s going on and what his book’s about. But I guess if you see the book, Scotty — I mean it’s a — it’s a broad book. It — it covers a lot of — a lot of area.
S: Well it — I — I can tell by the way he’s been talking tonight. (“I[T] I[S]”) It’s been a broad conversation —
S: — covering a lot of topics.
L: Right. Well I mean I — I think —
S: I — I don’t mean to be so utterly disrespectful but if — if I was sitting in a — in a smoky barroom drinking a Guiness with this guy — with you, Mark, I suppose I should address you directly — I — I would say what the hell is it you really believe? Because I’m hearing you jump all over with all different kinds of things.
L: Yeah, are you smoking something, Mark?
Q: No, I (“I”) don’t smoke cigarettes and I don’t drink.
L: You don’t?
S: Thank God.
L: (laughs) That’s not fair. It’s not very nice either. You all wouldn’t laugh like that, Scotty.
Q: Well anyway —
S: I’m not trying —
S: — I’m not laughing.
L: Now okay so you don’t smoke.
Q: I’m also a celibate. I lead a celibate lifestyle, I might add.
L: You know, I had a feeling you did.
T: That’s the problem.
L: Right there. (small laugh) I had a feeling you did.
S: What — what did he just say?
L: He’s celibate.
Q: Well —
L: Which is okay. That’s his lifestyle. He has every right in the world to do that.
S: I’m telling you, guy, you need a good hummer.
T: Oh my!
Q: Well I —
L: Okay. You’ll be okay. Scotty —
Q: Well let me. Let me try to explain based on his question.
L: Alright listen Mark, first off, this is “The Edge,” okay? We come on the air. We have a good time.
L: And you’ve been (“LIKE”) really way off the edge here because you’re trying to — you’re getting really deep into stuff. Let’s — let’s just talk, me and you, here in the next 35 minutes. Let’s just get into this and find out exactly what the hell’s going on.
Q: Okay, well I tried to describe this Force that was communicating to me and how I witnessed how It was the Channel between different spirits and entities. (“AN” “SO”) Once I had this demonstrated to me there in Oklahoma, I’d already known a little bit about Edgar Cayce and people like Madame Blavatsky. What I —
L: Hold on just a second. Okay, you’re talking about people who are inside the metaphysical realm.
Q: That’s right.
L: Or inside the metaphysical consciousness as human beings understand it. Now earlier in the program you said that you thought that most of the people who were inside the metaphysical realm or who believed in metaphysics or — or followed that — I wouldn’t say it’s a religion but at least a belief system — that you thought that most of them were fruit loops, to begin with.
Q: Some — (“AA”) the ones I hear on “Coast to Coast AM” are getting to be more and more loopy.
L: (laughs) Alright. Go ahead.
Q: Okay. So, anyway — (“I’M”)
S: I’m choking.
L: You’ll be okay.
Q: I’m going — I’m going to read you — I’m going to read you a portion — something that Madame Blavatsky wrote regarding her famous ‘Mahatmas’ back in Theosophist, 1884.
L: They did who to what? Maha — ma who?
Q: This is — she always talked about ‘the Mahatmas’ —
L: Okay. What are Mahatmas?
Q: — and this is what — this is how she described them.
. . . When, therefore, people express a desire to “see a Mahatma,” they really do not seem to understand what it is they ask for. How can they, by their physical eyes, hope to see that which transcends that sight? . . . And whoever therefore wants to see the real Mahatma, must use his intellectual sight. He must so elevate his Manas that its perception will be clear and all mists created by Maya must be dispelled.
S: What the hell is a Mahatma?
His vision will then be bright and he will see the Mahatmas wherever he may be, for, being merged into the sixth and the seventh principles, which are ubiquitous and omnipresent, the Mahatmas may be said to be everywhere. . . . although the whole of humanity is within the mental vision of the Mahatmas, they cannot be expected to take special note of every human being, unless that being by his special acts draws their particular attention to himself. The highest interest of humanity, as a whole, is their special concern, for they have identified themselves with that Universal Soul which runs through Humanity, and he, who would draw their attention, must do so through that Soul which pervades everywhere. . . .
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: “MAHATMAS AND CHELAS” BY H. P. BLAVATSKY CAN BE READ ONLINE AT HTTP://THEOSOPHY.ORG/TLODOCS/HPB/MAHATMASANDCHELAS.HTM)
Q: Well that’s just a sample.
L: Alright hold on a second, okay? Scotty, get off my phone.
S: Oh, alright. Bye.
L: See ya, bye. Alright, listen, I’ve got — I’ve got Maggie in Moore, OK. Hey, Maggie, welcome to “The Edge.” Hey, Maggie — hello? I guess she’s washing clothes. Hey, Maggie? Yeah, I don’t know what the hell’s going on here. Okay, we’re going to put her on hold here. Hold on a second — or actually I’m going to drop her. Okay, go ahead.
L: You want to be a guru?
Q: No, I do not want to be a guru.
L: Well you’re . . .
Q: I’m not a — if I wanted to be a guru, I would’ve been a — a guru by now. No, I —
L: Do you believe in tantric sex?
Q: I’m just trying — well one of the spirit mes(sages) —
L: Or Tantra?
Q: Well let me first explain.
Q: The same — Madame Blavatsky was interacting with this same Intelligence that I’ve been interacting with and by reading some of these statements, that seems very clear. So other cases of the so-called paranormal such as Edgar Cayce ‘the sleeping prophet’ —
Q: — he was actually a channel for various spirits. He also had a lot to say about the Angel Michael — in some of his dreams. So, again, similar to ‘the Mahatmas,’ He became a channel for this Superconsciousness that would allow different spirits to speak through him at different times. So, basically, this whole world of Christ Consciousness you can see not only in, let’s say, Jesus of Nazareth, but in more modern figures such as the ones I’ve been referring to.
Q: In fact, another one I was just remembering recently was St. Joseph of Copertino. He was known as “the friar who flew” in the famous Eric Dingwall book Some Human Oddities. So there are — some people might describe this as ‘semi-poltergeist’-type phenomena even though he would exclaim during one of the experiences, “Oh! most Blessed Virgin, most Blessed Virgin.” His interpretation was the Holy Spirit or the Virgin Mary was causing his experiences.
L: Alright, listen. When we come back to the holy virgin Mary and the experiences and all this stuff when we get back — we’ve got to go to break. Can you hang on, Mark?
L: Alright, hang on buddy, alright? My name’s Lan Lamphere and you’re listening to “The Edge.” Now I don’t know where this is going but I — I do know one thing, Mark — he’s got a hell of a book. It’s a big, thick book. Maybe somebody out there can understand this. I can’t. Ahhh no — oh hell no. Anyway, we’ll be back in just a moment with more of “The Edge.” Hang loose. (brief bumper music is “Africa” performed by Toto)
A: WKY. News on the hour, on the half, and when it breaks. Super Talk 930 WKY.
C: “CNN Radio Update.” I’m Cheryl Castro. In his final report, Chief U.N. Weapons Inspector Hans Blix says no evidence of weapons of mass destruction have been found in Iraq. An interim Iraqi administration is expected to be established within the next six weeks. Reconstruction Administrator Paul Bremer says most Iraqis support the idea.
U: I found that in my consultations over the last — well I’ve been here almost three weeks — most of the Iraqis we’ve talked to have been anxious to move ahead rather quickly to establish an interim administration.
C: U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell has met with the Pope in the Vatican for talks on Iraqi reconstruction and Middle East peace. President Bush meets with Arab leaders in Egypt Tuesday. He’ll hold talks with the Israeli and Palestinian prime ministers Wednesday in Jordan. The World Health Organization may lift a travel warning against parts of China due to the steady drop in SARS numbers. This is “CNN Radio News.” (commercials)
A: Alternative news and talk the way it was meant to be. You’re on “The Edge” with Lan Lamphere on The Hollow FX Radio Network and Super Talk 930 WKY Oklahoma City. (commercials and promos) To reach Lan Lamphere, call (gives number) or you can reach “The Edge” on our toll-free number at (gives number). (unidentified bumper music)
L: My name is Lan Lamphere. You are listening to “The Edge” right here on Super Talk 930 WKY and the Hollow FX Radio Network heard around the world at our website www.the-edge.ws. Of course, you’ll be able to pick this archive up tomorrow. It’s the on air archive and you’ll be able to go over there and download it for free tomorrow — I don’t know. Probably around noonish Central Standard Time. I got Maggie on the line — actually I’m going to get Mark here. Mark Russell Bell’s been our guest tonight. Hey, Mark, you still with us?
Q: I’m still here, Lan.
L: Right on, brother. Hang on. We’ve got a whole bunch of phone calls, people calling in here. I’ve got Maggie in Moore, Oklahoma. Hey, Maggie.
L: Hi. What’s your question, hon?
I: Okay. I was doing a little clicking around while he was rambling and I found an interview he did.
I: Mark, is it true that you think that your book Testament was channeled to you by God? And that you believe this book is the bible of the New Age?
Q: I wouldn’t say that — I don’t like the word ‘channeled.’
I: You did say it.
Q: In one sense, we’re all — we all channel various things. I mean thoughts are channeled. There have been many different bibles throughout history, such as the Koran for example, the Maharbarata — many different cultures. I look upon this as sort of a new (X) consciousness bible because it shows in a contemporary setting people expanding their consciousness and having miraculous encounters in a way that I think we can appreciate and relate to.
L: Hm. Did that answer your question, Maggie?
I: I guess so but he said quote unquote “God has channeled the new Testament for mankind through me.”
Q: That — yeah, that news release — that was before I really knew what baggage the word “channeled” had.
L: Well I think you may — you may have (small laugh) needed to give consideration to the word God (X) as well. I mean I’m just thinking.
Q: Well I explained how —
L: This is the Bible Belt.
Q: — I — I explained how one of the commandments came to me. That commercial blipped on and off saying “Love is the only religion.” (“LITTLE”)
L: Religion — love having a — hold on just a second. Maggie, get off my phone.
L: Thank you. Bye.
I: You(‘re) —
L: Alright, you — I know I’m welcome. Anyway, listen, religion has nothing to do with love. Religion is something that you do on a daily basis. Okay, for example, I smoke religiously. I smoke cigarettes from the time that I get up til the time I pass out after about 18/20 hours. That is my religion. My religion also might be riding motorcycles ’cause I’m a sport bike nut. Handling my birds. Those are things that I try to do on a daily basis, (“NO”) weather permitting and time permitting. That’s my religion. It’s not about God. It’s not about (“N”) — for the most part it’s not about God. It’s not about any type of — I don’t know — now let’s see — denomination; whether I go to a church or not. Is that accurate?
Q: Yes, on one level; however, isn’t it true that Love really is the only true religion? (X)
L: Well I don’t think so because I don’t do that on a daily basis. On some occasions I want to piss people off and hate ’em. So love is not going to be my true religion, is it?
Q: Well I think it depends on what — what — how you interpret the word religion. I wouldn’t put too much importance on words.
L: Well I’m just — well you just did when Maggie called in.
Q: Well I’m trying to explain the best I can. Again, this is not something that — I think if you look at the case study in terms of — I — I — I — the transcripts present what happened to me. It’s not something that I really would have chosen all on my own.
Q: I definitely can show the various Guidance that I had every step of the way.
L: Um-huh. Oh I got another phone call. Here’s Everett in Oklahoma City. Hey, Everett.
V: Oh — hello.
L: Oo ohp — there you are. What are you doing?
V: . . . Nothing, dude.
L: I caught you, didn’t I?
V: Yeah, you did.
L: Alright, what’s up?
V: I — I have a question for Mark —
V: — a counter question. Mark, you’re a — are you a follower of Madame Blavatsky and her Theosophist movement?
Q: I wouldn’t call myself a follower of Madame Blavatsky. I just — in studying some aspects of her life, I did find parallels with her life with my own. I must say that her book The Secret Doctrine I find very hard to read.
L: Why is that?
V: Because it’s thick?
Q: Because it’s very ponderous, using a lot of Eastern words. It’s just something that I’ve never really been able to get through.
V: Well Mark it sounds like you’re — you’re — you’re — you’re kind of trying to promote her whole (“MAAT”) Mahonda Christ Consciousness —
Q: She’s just one person that I mentioned. I also mentioned Edgar Cayce —
L: Edgar Cayce’s dead, dude.
V: So is Madame Blavatsky.
L: Okay, well good. They’re all dea(d) — (“GIVE A”) (small laugh) now that you mention it, I’ve got a question for you, Mark, okay?
L: Here on the front of your book in Testament and don’t think that I’m getting rude. I’m just dead serious about this. You have a — an image of a gentleman wearing a hat with a piece of toast popping out of his head and he’s fixing to step off into a — a manhole with a ladder on it. And you have — I don’t know what the hell this thing is but it’s something — the side of it’s got a cash register on top of it and it’s handing, apparently, translucent or transcendent money. And you have an angel standing — apparently, what appears to be an angel embracing the guy who’s about to fall into this manhole cover. But it really looks like he’s giving him some serious tongue here. Is that what’s happening? I’m dead serious. That’s what it looks like. Am I wrong? Did you see this, Taira? Look at this. Look at this. (“I”) Look at it. Hold on a second, Mark. Did you see it right there on the front? Look? See? Right there? Is that what’s taking place?
Q: And I thought I had a dirty mind.
L: Oh I’m just saying — I’m not saying nothing. I’m just asking a question. It’s radio.
T: It looks like they’re feeling each other up. If that’s what you’re asking?
L: Yeah, it’s an angel who’s like feeling this guy up or something.
Q: Well I have to be honest with you.
L: Okay, here we go.
T: Alright, let’s go.
L: You sure you want to do this?
Q: When I was working on transcribing the interviews, one of the sisters of the family was gay.
Q: And I was asking her at the time —
L: Am I the only person who’s ever caught this?
T: Oh no. She was gay?
L: (small laugh) Oh my, God forbid. That’s okay.
Q: I’m not done yet. Okay, so — and I —
L: Are you gay, Mark?
Q: Well let me finish my story.
T: He interjects.
Q: So I said it might be interesting to get the Ent(ity) — the Entity’s idea of being gay. And she said, “Well I’m sure he’d say, ‘Whatever works.’” So when I was playing this, there was an EVP/spirit message “YOU AND ME” which — and not only that but at the time I heard this I immediately had a huge erection unlike anything I had experienced since I was a teenager. So —
L: Kevin, key the mic. Okay, I’m listening. I’m just trying to — okay. Alright.
K: . . . Go ahead, Mark.
L: Okay, if we’re going to go there.
Q: Okay —
L: Let me have some backup here in the studio. Go ahead.
Q: So — so obviously the aspect of the Christ Consciousness in my life was manifesting as a gay Entity and letting me know that it was alright for me to be gay as well.
L: Well that’s not a problem. I was just wondering if you were.
Q: Well —
L: And so I’m — I’m totally liberal.
Q: Well after this experience —
Q: — I was thinking about gayness and homosexuality, whatever words people want to assign to it.
Q: And you have to remember (“LIKE”) — for example in Freudian psychology where Freud once introduced the idea that there was a (X) — a stage where people would go through where, when they were in fact gay.
L: Right. What is that?
Q: Well that’s Freudian psychology.
[2021 UPDATE: IN A BLOG ARTICLE I PRESENTED A VIDEO CLIP PROVIDING AN EXAMPLE HOW "Videos of hypnotists show that people's sexuality can be altered through hypnotic suggestion."]
L: Wait a minute. Are you telling me that Jesus Christ is gay?
Q: This Jesus Christ is gay.
Q: Okay. So — and plus there are other songs too where you have the same thought. In fact, that’s one of — on my list of spiritual advice, that’s one of the things I have listed: “God is gay.”
L: Well you know that makes perfect sense. Jesus Christ just hang out — (“NO”) he hung out with 12 other guys his entire life.
Q: Well you have to remember that everyone who gives their experiences where religious matters or spiritual matters comes into play, it’s all one person’s perspective and then you have other people’s perspectives. For example in the Holy Bible, a lot of it is different people’s perspectives of what happened. And — so you never really have any one source that is the one correct viewpoint, you just have different people’s perspectives and (“THESE”) some of them are — become very popular such as the Holy Bible and others do not. (“BUT”) They’re all just (“P”) different people’s perspectives.
L: So you’re telling me that the Christ Consciousness plus the boner consciousness equals what?
Q: Well I’m just saying that I do believe that every person does have that gay aspect to themselves. I know —
L: I think everybody has a — a tendency or at least a potential to be gay. I just don’t think that everyone follows that but you know? I have never had anyone come on this program who has tied it all up so neatly as you. I really haven’t. I mean I have never in my life seen anyone take the spiritualistic side of Christ Consciousness and tie it in with being gay. And then write a book about it called Testament and put gay people on the front of their book. That’s amazing to me. You’ve got a lot of balls — (small laugh) no pun intended.
Q: Well I had to be honest because once — in fact, once I tried — at first, I was not going to go into the sexual issues. And I even tape recorded over a portion of tape involving a gay comic book ad that I had seen.
Q: And Mighael — dear Mighael ruined that cassette. So basically I understood that Mighael wanted me to be honest and not to edit anything.
Q: In fact, one of the people I interview in the book is a gay cartoonist.
Q: Known as ‘The Hun.’
L: Um-huh. The Hun.
Q: And I found that to be very —
L: Did you say ‘The Hung’?
Q: The Hun. H — U — N.
L: Oh The Hun. Okay, I’ve got you. I’m sorry.
Q: And I just found that very interesting. And, of course, you have Kurt Cobain too who also in his song lyrics also touched upon that — touched upon that theme of God being gay.
L: Right. Yeah. Well — look what happened to Kurt Cobain.
V: Okay I have a — you were talking about —
L: Hey, Everett, you’re still there?
V: Yeah, I’m still here.
L: Okay, go ahead. (laughs)
V: He was talking about — he was talking about Freud and I wanted to know Mark, do you have Electra complex?
V: I don’t really relate to that particular complex.
L: What is that?
Q: I mean, again, these are all just — these are all just words. I — I — I —
L: What the hell is it he’s talking about here?
Q: I, myself much prefer Jungian psychology to Freudian psychology.
V: You brought up Jung and I thought maybe you had a — a — a — a Electra complex, the opposite of an Oedipus complex.
L: Well you guys have got a hung complex, both of you do.
V: No no no — Electra complex just means you have like a love for your father (“REME[M]”) whereas Oedipus is like you have a deep — you’re in love with your mother.
L: Oh, thank you. I appreciate your telling me that. Did not know that.
V: I was just wondering because he brought up Freud and I just — I thought well then maybe he has an Electra complex. And then he said he was gay and I thought well that makes sense.
V: And then he got defensive. (laughs)
Q: Well — well that was one of the things that I had to — when — what I thought about when I was exploring this whole aspect is why — because we only have our own experiences to go by. An(d) I (or “AN I”) — you hear: “Well people maybe are gay who don’t have a close tie to their father,” which I didn’t. Or you hear — you hear other various theories.
L: Do you think that you are gay because — this is — really isn’t about being gay but I want to ask you a serious question. Are you gay? Did you choose that lifestyle or was it born into you genetically?
Q: Well I always had that attraction. It’s not something that I really — I had never really — I had like one sort of bad experience.
Q: I — I’m just not one of those pe(ople) —
L: But you mentioned abuse earlier. That’s the reason why I’m asking.
Q: Well I — my twin brother too is gay.
L: Um-huh. So it’s a — it’s a DNA thing?
Q: No. Well — I think everyone’s gay. (“BUT”)
L: (small laugh) A gay guy would.
Q: Well —
L: A lesbian would, wouldn’t they? It’s just from your own person(al) —
Q: Yes but after really looking — for example, there was one experience I had when I was living in Santa Monica where I just happened to meet the — the eyes of an — of another young — young man.
L: Alright, let’s don’t get too (“NO”) descriptive, okay?
Q: Well no — at that e(xact) — at that exact time he sort of spit and became all defensive.
L: Well I would too. I mean well — I mean maybe he . . .
Q: Well no — just — just glance — just happening to meet somebody’s gaze?
Q: Anyway, I mean —
L: Was this in a bar?
L: Did he have leather on?
Q: This was walking down the street.
Q: So I mean it — it just shows to me that there are a lot of people who are influenced by social conditions —
L: Does Jesus Christ wear leather? That’s what I want to know? We’re going to answer that on the next riveting episode of “The Edge.” (laughs) I’m just joking. Go ahead.
Q: So it’s — again, if you really look at why people act the way they do, you have to look at the conditioning of movies and TV shows, ‘male bonding’ — if you really look beneath the surface (“OF”) of the situation you can see people conforming with society, not really with perhaps their own feelings.
L: Right. So basically what you’re telling us here is that you’ve written this book, if I’m not mistaken — I think I’m getting this. Everett, get off my phone.
E: You bet . . .
L: Alright, bye bud. (small laugh) You’ve written this book, basically, as a — ahhh, let me see if I’ve got the right words here — your research into your own spirituality, tying it together with the fact that you are a homosexual is not a big deal — to me it’s not. It may be to other people but it’s not to me. And you’ve tied it all together along with some of the mystical things that have taken place in other people’s lives and you’ve come to the conclusion based on all of your studies in this book that there’s more to consciousness than we, as we walk around in our daily lives, choose to admit and — and most cases realize. Is that correct?
Q: That’s very well said.
L: Thank you very much. I appreciate it. It’s taken me a long time — as a matter of fact two and a half hours to come to that conclusion because we’ve covered so many different things. I don’t — I have not had an opportunity to read your book. I really haven’t, Mark, and we’ve had a lot of fun here tonight. But that’s what “The Edge” is about in the first place, okay? We’re not trying to poke fun at you. We’re not — well okay maybe I was but it — I’m not really poking fun. I’m just trying to be entertaining. Sometimes I suck at it. Sometimes I’m good at it. In this particular case — you left yourself wide open. But, anyway, we’ve had a lot of fun and I want to welcome you back to “The Edge” any other time that you want to come on.
Q: Okay, let me make one — one —
L: I’m not kicking you off. I’m just saying.
Q: Let me just make one mention too because as I was preparing today I was thinking of (“WELL”) what could I perhaps share that would be rewarding?
Q: And one of my little books had either fallen down or it was — it seemed to be out of place on my bookshelf.
Q: And it was a — um (“AA” “LL”) very little-known book by Jacob Beilhart — B — E — I — L — H — A — R — T —
L: I’m familiar with that.
Q: — called Love Letters From Spirit To You.
Q: And this was one of the many books that came my way during my experience. And — and I’ll just read you one little part at random just to give you a sampling of the Entity that I’ve been dealing with:
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: LAN PLAYED THE SOUND EFFECT OF CARTOONISH LAUGHTER AGAIN FOLLOWED BY A CARTOONISH COMMENT SOUNDING LIKE “A BUNCH OF TREE-HUGGING HIPPIE . . .” AS I READ YET IT WASN’T AUDIBLE ON MY TELEPHONE LINE.)
My dear one:
Open your heart and mind and I will speak to you in this way through the words in this paper.
I dwell within you and am your Life, and besides Me there is no Life in you.
Until you find that I am your Life, and that I am likewise the Life of all persons and things, you will not have Rest.
Your conscious mind has not taken Me in, and I have had no actual place in your life.
You have thought you were a separate entity, and were either good or bad, and that I was something apart from you and the world you live in. This consciousness on your part has placed you in darkness, and you find no Rest or Peace.
The sense nature that you live in causes you to count that you are responsible and that others are responsible; and this creates confusion, for you justify or condemn actions and purposes according to your sense of right and wrong. You are incapable of judging anything, because you do not see My purpose, and do not wait to see the result of things.
Q: Which Seems a good place to say that people can read the case study that I present before reaching a conclusion and see what interpretations they come to because, again, (“I”) I’m just presenting my journals and question and answer interviews based on some pretty unusual circumstances.
L: Well I would give you that much. Unusual circumstances. The — and you know that the information that you cover in your book, by the way, Mark, is — is actually riveting because you actually did come out here to Oklahoma — to Centrahoma, Oklahoma and you did do some research on this. Real quick, about this — this poltergeist Michael, this entity Michael that was throwing rocks and pennies and all kinds of other stuff and leaving messages — I — I got a quick question for you. What the hell does Bigfoot got to do with it?
Q: Well —
L: Because I’ve got a picture here of Bigfoot that was — it was actually in that — where in the hell is it? . . . It’s — okay, it disappeared. It’s here, anyway. There’s a big hairy picture of Bigfoot. There it is. Right there.
Q: Yes, well I came upon this photograph while working on the book.
L: Right. This don’t even look like it’s real, dude.
Q: It looks like it’s real to me. And I — I interviewed Cliff Crook at Bigfoot Central who —
L: Did you interview Bigfoot?
Q: No, I did not interview a bigfoot.
L: Okay, I’m just saying because this doesn’t look real to me. This looks like it was made up. Where — where did he get this picture from?
Q: There’s — there’s some information in the book regarding the picture but you might interview Cliff Crook himself sometime.
Q: By the way, his — his wife’s maiden name was Bell as well I found out, you know, after —
L: His wi(fe) — what? His le —
Q: His wife’s maiden name was Bell.
Q: So after interviewing him I do believe the circumstances that he told me are legitimate. It was about a ranger who had taken (“THE PHO”) the photographs.
L: Do you know why I don’t believe this image? I’ll tell you why. If you get a chance to look at this image, I’d love to publish this over at our website so people can see it but I don’t have permission because it’s copyrighted —
Q: Well you can have a link to — you certainly can have a link to it at my website.
L: Do you have one over at your website? What is your website?
Q: testament dot org.
L: testament dot org, gotcha.
Q: It’s in the — it’s in the Testament side in the — under the photographs.
L: Okay, well if you go over and look at it — here’s the thing, okay. I’m a pho(to) — I’m a — well I used to be a professional photographer.
Q: I’m sure Cliff would let you — would give you permission, anyway.
L: Well no, that’s okay. It’s not a big deal. Here’s the problem. I am a photographer and what I’m seeing here is this — I’m seeing granulated grains of dirt along with grass that is very, very large. That’s the problem and it’s not more than three and a half feet in front of this guy. In other words, the blades of grass which are actually right there — we don’t have that kind of grass in Oklahoma, for one. Two, there’s just no freaking way — (small laugh)
Q: Well if I was going to do a hoax about a bigfoot —
L: No, you didn’t do this.
Q: — I don’t think I would — I don’t think I would’ve made a bigfoot look like that with little or no neck being visible.
L: . . . exactly. And not only that but, you know (or “YOU KNOW”), where’s his throat? I don’t understand this.
Q: But other — other people who have seen them have said — described the exact same circumstances.
Q: In fact —
L: Do you believe in aliens? These are — comes out of a chatroom over at the-edge.ws — do you believe — I’ve been asked by, who is this? ‘Free_Dixie’ has asked me to ask you if you believe in aliens.
Q: Well, again, aliens is just a word. (“I”) Some people call them aliens. Some people call them fairies. Some people call them spirits. There are —
L: We’re going back to that whole gay thing again, are we?
Q: No. There are interviews in the book regarding — and there’s a picture where you see some (“LIKE”) transparent faces in a window, which some people believe that these are aliens. There was some commenting on Michael being an alien as well, even though it’s obvious that the family themselves had no — no real idea of what they exactly were dealing with because the phenomena was so far-ranging. But having read a lot in the area of aliens and ufology, I must say yes, I do believe that there are aliens.
L: What do you call them if you don’t call them aliens?
Q: Well since my interaction with them is not very substantial —
L: Whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa — wait a minute. Your interaction with aliens?
Q: Well the entities in the window that you see at the h(ouse) — in — in the (“HOU”) — in the picture there?
Q: I’ve had a few —
L: Those — that’s an entity? I thought somebody was throwing a rock. I’ve got it right here. Yeah. (“YEAH”)
Q: Well there’s — there’s a — (“THERE’S SOME”) faces that you can — you can (X) see. One of them is more pronounced than the others. And —
L: This looks like a shadow.
Q: Well that’s (“T”) —
L: That is not an alien, dude. That’s got to be a shadow — got to be a play of light. There’s no way. Come on —
Q: Well —
L: If — only if E.T.’s real because his neck’s like nine feet long.
Q: You — you — you should probably read what the family has to say about what they experienced (“RIGHT”) in terms of the alien aspects.
Q: Because there’s a — there’s a lot of other parallels I found in reading other ufology cases. In fact, in the New Testament side I — I interview an abduction therapist at one point who I found a very interesting person to speak to.
L: Hey, brother, listen, I hate to —
L: — but I’ve got to get out of here. This is the end of the show.
L: I want to get you to come back on. I’ll get Taira to give you a — a — a call tomorrow sometime — this week sometime and get you to come back on the program. We’ll talk more about these aliens. Okay?
L: Alright, I do appreciate it.
Q: You might wait til you’ve read more of the book, though.
L: I’m going to.
L: At this point. I’m going to at this point. I appreciate your being here, bro.
Q: Okay, thank you.
L: Alright, thanks.
Q: (off air / line disconnected) Okay. (“BABA”)
L: What the hell ever? Man —
T: (laughs imitating cartoonish voice and Lan plays the laughter again)
L: No way. Ever. I’ll call him tomorrow myself and tell him he ain’t ever coming back on this show. I’ve got to get out of here. This is nuts.
T: And you tell him to call me. Thanks.
L: Telling him to call you is like no, what the heck is going on here?
T: Thank you so much.
L: I’ve got a gay — I’ve got the gay Christ on the phone and I’ve got to get out of here and I get — the phones are ringing. And if you’re calling, just keep — pick ’em up, put ’em on hold. I’m going to talk to ’em. Oh my God. Anyhow, this has been “The Edge.” We’re back. We’ve got a new format. As you can hear in the background, we’re haven’t had any problem making you laugh as well as having a good time. Maybe we can find out a little bit more about these things that we’ve been exploring on “The Edge” for a long time now with you. But we’re going to make — we’re going to have fun doing it. That — that — that’s the new rule around here. We’re going to have fun doing it. (sighs) Anyway, check out our website: www.the-edge.ws — we’ll be back tomorrow night from 11 until 2. We’ll see you later on, on Super Talk 930 WKY and the Hollow FX Radio Network. My name’s Lan Lamphere. We’ll see you tomorrow. (unidentified bumper music)