INTERVIEW — TAPE #70, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
P: Paul Russell
S: Sue, King Richard’s Antique Mall staff member
D: Dawn Carter, King Richard’s Antique Mall staff member
M: Marla, acquaintance at King Richard’s Antique Mall
C: unidentified staff members
G: Marla’s daughter
B: Marla’s son
Q: Okay. What is Esther’s phone number?
P: You’ve got it right except for the last number is four before.
Q: Okay. So the last number is four. (“OOO”)
P: The last number is O not four.
Q: O. The last number is zero.
P: Not four.
Q: Do you remember the rest of the number just in case I lost that other slip? (“SHOW ME HOW” “THEIR QUARTERS” “MEAN THEY DON’T WIN”)
P: (gives number)
Q: (repeats number) (“HERE WE GO AGAIN” “YEAH” “YEAH” “OKAY”) Okay. (“KEEP THE NAMES”)
( . . . )
(“BUT”)
P: At the last time that Allen was here, before (“HE WAS GOING”) he went back to Des Moines and he’d never been here since —
Q: What did he — he was the accountant for what company?
P: Mr. Cheeseman. (“AND ALL”)
Q: What is that?
P: Everybody knows it. I’ll tell you later.
( . . . )
Q: Was he living in Madison though?
P: No no — yeah. That’s a Wisconsin firm.
Q: He was living (“AT”) — he was in Madison.
P: In Madison working for Mr. Cheeseman but Mr. Cheeseman —
Q: ‘Son’ of ‘Man.’ Madison/Cheeseman. Son of Man?
P: No. No, Mark, that has nothing to do —
Q: Maybe. (“NOW THA”) You never know.
P: But that’s a good idea. You’re thinking. (“NO”) I can’t see what you’re thinking.
( . . . )
Q: If your teeth are too big, tell them they’re too big.
P: Can’t do it.
Q: Why not?
P: I’m not on MediCal. I mean I’m not on MediCal anymore. I’m on VA.
Q: You have to have teeth.
P: I’m Medicare only. (“MEDICARE”) Doggy bag. Listen — oh.
Q: I’m done.
P: You get any dessert?
Q: Yeah, maybe. (“O”)
( . . . )
Q: Why after all these years —
P: Because Bob —
Q: — are they sending you money?
P: Bob and Jeanne and Mary — no, Mary — (“BALL” “MARY MM”) Esther and Dorothy — they started writing him too. “We cannot hold grudges. We’re going to write him.” But they didn’t need any money anyway. But if they needed it, (“HE WOULD’VE”) he would send $100 or $200. Now he sends me $500. He hasn’t — this was thirty years ago.
Q: And so you’re going to address it over to me and I’m going to put it in my account?
P: Well sure. I’ve got to get — (“I”)
Q: Okay.
P: Now now since I was going to give you, as I told you, $800 — Los Angeles. (“BECAUSE”) Mikey didn’t take the $800. That $800 was for you. He’d already had $600 because he wrote me a letter and sent me back these checks, these small checks . . . (“NO”) I cashed them in and sent him $600. (“I LOVE YOU”) He never got it. And it wasn’t even him that sent the letter back. It was probably some fellows at a post office. But it could’ve been him. (“OKAY”) Now, they knew that I was writing. See, I’d written you guys for four years. Sacramento. The whole place is felons. (“GOD DAMN”) The whole town. (“SAY”) The post office. Everywhere you go. Kid gangs and felons. Right? So they got the $600. But I didn’t know that. And I figured he got his $600. So I sent you $800 — I sent him $800 before you. (“GOOD”) And then he didn’t take it because —
Q: Well it’s — (“FOR YOU”) we don’t need the money.
P: — Bob called him and said, “I got this check to forward you (“WELL”) and —”
Q: We didn’t need the money.
P: I know. That — I know that. I’m glad you don’t need it. And if I get $5 million and put it in, you’ll never need that. (“OKAY”)
Q: Exactly.
P: I’ve got to sign this.
Q: Well that’s very nice of you.
P: Yeah. And then you got — we’ll take it — if it’s three o’clock — it’s 2:30 now?
Q: 2:30.
P: We have to be there at three. Get a doggy bag.
Q: Okay.
P: Where’s the —
( . . . )
Q: Oh no. I mean I knew she had —
P: And you wanted to come out the next day.
Q: Now wait. She had a — the operation you mean?
P: Oh Ellen had an operation. Yeah.
Q: But did she fall too? I didn’t know she had fallen.
P: . . . That was the same night. She didn’t have a bad appendix. I told the doctor she didn’t have a bad — he says, “No.” She said —
Q: She had fallen. (“HE SAID”)
P: And then after he took it out, he says, “You want to see the appendix?” It was old. It was worn out.”
Q: No but I just remember —
P: That was the night she fell.
Q: I know that but she fell the same night? Was this . . .
P: (Be)fore (“YEAH”) we left. We were going to San Diego to see Esther and Dorothy and Dalton.
Q: Why did she fall?
P: I know. That is a long story.
Q: Well just tell me in one sentence why did she fall?
P: What are you going to do about it? You going to put it in a book?
Q: If it’s interesting enough.
P: We were having a drink before we left. We could never been having a drink. I put a little wine in the punch. She was pregnant so it was partly my fault.
Q: (laughs) (“O”) Oh no.
P: Mainly my fault. She was . . .
Q: Oh no.
P: But I got a good Social Security lawyer.
Q: Was she drunk?
P: “I’ll fight the case.” No. Not off a drink. (“YEAH”)
Q: After the divorce, she drank a lot.
P: Drank beers. (“NO”) She only drank one or two beers every night and . . .
Q: That’s an alcoholic.
P: And two aspirins. Not one but two every night.
Q: I remember that. (“NIGHT”)
P: The best thing in the world you could do. If you don’t get an ulcer. But she hasn’t checked for about thirty or forty years. She may have an ulcer. Don’t worry about it. I didn’t worry about it. I didn’t worry about nothing.
Q: But what did she fall — did she trip or stumble or what?
P: She jumped over the — (to waiter) I’m alright — she jumped over the coffee table.
Q: The coffee table at home? (“PROBABLY A” “WE WON”) why would she jump over the coffee table?
P: We were getting ready to go.
Q: I’ll ask her about it.
P: I don’t know. (“LA[TE]”) Don’t ask her. You didn’t find out from me . . . know her (“AA” “ROVING”) — that they — (“O GOD”) “Paul told me that you fell that night before you left.”
Q: Okay. I’ll see what she says. (“COVER” “EQUALLY”)
( . . . )
P: . . . biologies?
Q: I know a lot about medicine instinctually.
P: Bob may — huh?
Q: Yeah, how do you spell sulfa? S — U — L —
P: F — A —
Q: F — A.
P: Not PH. FA.
Q: So when you were taking that and they made you drink all that water —
P: At bed.
Q: — the water was what was helping you. Not the pills.
P: I know that. I know that. (“BB”) But how did you find out about all this? Medical knowledge?
Q: The Angel Mighael. (“KN”)
P: What else do you know about appendicitis? What do you know about that? What do you know about . . . What do you know about rabies?
Q: Why do you ask?
P: I just wondered. How much you know.
Q: Well I know that God can — can —
P: That’s Christian Science.
Q: No no no no no — I haven’t finished.
P: No? Science of Mind?
Q: No. God can sort of control animals through their subconscious minds so He can chose who gets rabies and who doesn’t.
P: Sure sounds — if you’re — if you let the body heal itself, it’ll heal itself.
Q: From rabies?
P: Anything.
Q: Okay.
P: Anything. It can’t heal it if you’re worried about it (“YOUR”) and your microbes are running and you’re nerve cells are running around: “I’m worried. I’m sick. I’m worried.”
Q: Of course. No, I agree with you.
P: It’s a rebirth . . .
Q: Exactly.
P: Of Christian . . .
Q: I told you I’m a Christian Scientist.
P: I know you are but I only took you twice. And then you got kicked out. I heard they let Mike stay but they kicked you — no, they let you stay and they kicked Mike out.
Q: Why did they kick Mike out?
P: I’m just kidding.
Q: Oh. (small spirit laugh)
P: You know where that was?
Q: No.
P: Glendale.
Q: I don’t have any memory of that.
P: Well you only went once or twice. You ever figure out where that church was on North Lake?
Q: No.
P: I know where it is but I’m not sure that’s the one you went to —
Q: I don’t remember.
P: — because you told me you were going to a church and —
Q: Oh right. (“UH-HUH”)
P: — and you told me it was on North Lake. And that’s the only one I ever saw.
Q: Not on Lake. (“WE LIVED”) Maybe on — the one on —
P: No, you told me you went to North Lake. I asked you what church?
Q: Paul wait. We never lived near Lake.
P: I know that. I don’t know how you got there. Ellen must’ve brought you. (“YES” “WAS THAT JULIE”) But you said you went to Church.
Q: What’s that street up near Del Rey? That street up near Del Rey?
P: Might’ve been.
Q: That was where we went.
P: But I thought you said Lake.
Q: No — went there.
P: This was fifty years ago.
Q: I think that was —
P: I mean forty — how old you are you now? (“THIRTY”)
Q: Thirty-nine.
P: Okay, it’s twenty years later.
Q: Do I look thirty-nine?
P: No. You’re looking younger than Jack Benny.
Q: Exactly.
P: Now. Not then.
Q: Thank goodness.
P: He’d go “Well” and everybody would laugh. (“WHY”)
Q: Well — (laughs)
P: Now cut that out, Dennis.
Q: What?
P: He’d say, “Now cut that out, Dennis.” Don. You remember Don? You don’t remember.
Q: Who do you like? Do you like David Letterman —
P: Don was the big fat guy. He was the leader of the band for Jack Benny.
Q: Do you watch David Letterman?
P: Not too much. I don’t — I never did watch . . .
Q: What about the other one?
P: I would if a star was on there that I liked their series or something.
Q: Right. (“RIGHT”) What stars do you like these days?
P: They’re none. I don’t know any of them.
Q: Really?
P: And I hate old movies.
Q: So what do you like?
P: If I turn on the radio, I’m wide awake. If I turn on the TV, then I sleep a little. Don’t worry about —
Q: It’s an interesting case.
P: I know. Who me?
Q: Yes.
P: I thought you were talking — Ellen.
Q: Oh.
( . . . )
Q: Did our mom ever cheat on you when you were married? (“MM”)
P: She went out with a gas-pumper.
Q: She did?
P: But that was after she moved you out.
Q: Real(ly?) — well what was his name?
P: I don’t know. She just went —
Q: Was that Red? Who was Red?
P: On no, that was in Pasadena later.
Q: Was that Bud? You mean Bud.
P: No, didn’t know him. You were — she moved from M(GM) — Culver City over a couple blocks. A few blocks. (“I’M WHITE” “AND”)
Q: But do you know — did you ever see Red?
P: . . . so long ago . . . they wouldn’t (“COME”) — I saw one guy coming into the back apartment when I was leaving one Saturday or Sunday. (“MURDER” “J”)
Q: Really? Are you sure that he was going to Ellen’s house?
P: . . . even then I couldn’t tell you exactly who he was.
Q: Are you sure he was going to see Ellen?
P: It could’ve ben Red.
Q: Are you sure he was going to see Ellen though?
P: He was coming up your back stairs. You remember your back stairs?
Q: No.
P: Oh that was before you moved over by the hospital. You were on a corner, remember?
Q: Right.
P: Then you moved back to the hospital?
Q: Right.
P: Okay. Well you wouldn’t — that was before you moved. He’d be coming up the back stairs on your Altadena —
Q: Right, I remember that (apartment).
P: But I couldn’t see who it was.
Q: Was this Bud or was it —
P: Probably was Red. I don’t know Bud . . .
Q: Are you sure it was human? Was it a ghost?
P: It was — a bell. It was Mark Gordon Bell. I mean whatever.
Q: My pseudonym? The Archangel Mighael coming in to scare me?
P: Why do you call him Michael for? If I was him, I’d talk you out of that.
Q: Well what would —
P: That’s alright. You’re a good writer.
Q: Exactly.
P: But I can’t even see what I’m thinking. How am I going to read it?
Q: Did you ever like angels? (“KNOW MUCH ABOUT EM”)
P: Angels?
Q: Do you believe in God?
P: Oh yeah. Oh you mean those kind. Yeah. And good thoughts. Christian Scientist would say an angel would —
Q: Are you a Christian Scientist?
P: Well the only thing I’ve been to. And I was there four times in the last fifty years.
Q: Do you pray to God? (“NOW”)
P: O now presence peace and joy and power your life divine . . .
Q: That’s good.
P: But you don’t know the stresses that it has pulled me through. It’s not as bad as living in Watts or Harlem. Where’s Harlem? Where’s the East?
Q: Near New York.
P: I don’t know. Watts. Not as bad as some areas but there every night bang bang bang boom boom boom.
Q: When you were in Glendale, it was pretty racy?
P: No.
Q: That’s the safest city in California.
P: What I’ve been through.
Q: Oh.
P: And you —
Q: The bikers?
P: — I was going for three —
Q: Remember the bikers?
P: — three or four nights with no sleep. You try it some time.
Q: I’ve never done that.
P: Well that’s what they do.
Q: Except when I was in Alhambra.
P: But they do have two or three people. Alhambra? Oh yeah. You told me about — (“THIS”) Now Alhambra is old retired people’s — a lot of seniors.
Q: What does that name mean? Alhambra?
P: I don’t know. That’s a Spanish thing.
Q: Something with the Moors or something.
P: I have no — I forget. But the seniors are there. I’ve been through there on the bus. (“YEAH”) They’re all seniors. And they probably sent you to some place like that to help you and to check you. But it had nothing to do with Alhambra. But the problem with Alhambra is there’s no place to go so they sent me out here. (“TELL”) Some lady said, “You could try Leisure Manor on Whittier Boulevard and Whittier.” I got here — it was in LaHabra. Orange County. “I don’t want no Orange County. I want L.A.”
Q: Is this the best part of your life now?
P: Huh?
Q: Is this your — the best time of your life? Retirement? (“YEAH”)
P: Your brain gets smarter but you can’t use it as much because it’s slower and you can’t see as well.
Q: But are you enjoying life? You don’t have to worry about making ends meet. I mean now is sort of a good time for you?
P: Yeah. After the VA helped me. But I had it rough — not because of money. Before that because of circumstances.
Q: Circumstances beyond your control.
P: And people. And roommates. And administrators. And waiters. And nurses’ aides.
Q: But you take the — some of the responsibility you have to take.
P: I don’t — I can walk away from it. But I try to help them two or three times and it don’t work.
Q: Okay. One question.
P: They get mad at me then I quit.
Q: One more question. If you’re the reincarnation of anybody, who do you think you were in a previous life? Who do you think you were?
P: Ahhh, my cells or me? (“NO”)
Q: What?
P: What’s —
Q: You.
P: Which cells?
Q: Paul Russell.
P: My corpuscles?
Q: All of you.
P: My nerve — my brain cells? My nerve —
Q: If you were alive in an earlier life —
P: Which part of me?
Q: All of you.
P: No, there is no such thing as all of you. God is all. We’re made up of particles (“NO”) — particles?
Q: Yes.
W: Need change for that . . .? Oh thank you very much.
Q: Okay, you’re welcome. Okay, so should we go? But you don’t think you had a previous life?
P: Hey, I got a —
Q: What? Eat something.
P: Yeah. I haven’t eaten much.
Q: Wait, we have to get our doggy bag too, don’t we?
P: I got one.
Q: You got it. Oh okay.
P: I can’t put the food . . .
Q: No, I know. No. Our mom loves doggy bags.
P: Oh yeah?
Q: The two of you both love doggy bags.
P: It’s not a matter of love. It’s a matter of self-preservation.
Q: Tell me about it.
P: You spent $10 or $15 for that.
Q: No, I know. No, I think it’s great.
P: And we don’t have a dog. We got one cat on the third floor.
Q: What color is it?
P: I don’t know. I haven’t seen the thing yet. (“YOU’RE RIGHT”)
Q: But if you were — just — it’s a game. If you were, like, the — if you are the reincarnation of somebody famous, who do you think you were in a previous life?
P: Which particle of me? I’m the reincarnation of a lot of things.
Q: Your brain. Like what?
P: My brain cells?
Q: Yes.
P: Which type of brain cell?
Q: Oh you’re insane. (“MAN”) You didn’t have any previous incarnations?
P: You’re made up of — well your socks. I don’t know. I have to call my —
Q: Your psychic?
P: (small laugh)
Q: Your psychic friends.
P: We got one across the street.
Q: Really?
P: Palmistry. (small laugh)
Q: Well ask her who you’re the reincarnation of and then tell me.
P: They don’t turn the light on any more at night. I think they’re retarded — retired.
Q: Okay. Well whatever. Think about it, though. Like I’m the reincarnation of somebody — an Egyptian named Bel-Marduk.
P: That’s — you know how I change words around?
Q: Yeah?
P: Gas. What was that? “Be my aghast.”
Q: Right? Like in the “Beauty and The Beast”?
P: They’re not funny but they don’t matter.
Q: Where did that idea come from because that ties — did you see “Beauty and the Beast”?
P: Yeah.
Q: “Be my guest. Be my guest.” Angela Lansbury?
P: When you were in Culver City before you moved, you were two years old.
Q: Yeah?
P: It used to be on TV. What’s that — “Yogi Bear”? And all them — not “Yogi.” Another bear. Horseface what-you-call-it? They used that “Be My —”
Q: “Quick-Draw McGraw”?
P: “Quick-Draw McGraw.” (“RIGHT”)
Q: They used “Be My Guest”?
P: Now I forgot. Oh. Reincarnate. Make it ‘preincarnate.’
Q: Okay. Who are you the preincarnation of?
P: Preincarnation.
Q: Who are you the postincarnation of?
P: Prein — Carnation milk. Hey, I can get that account for Michael.
Q: They only take entertainment clients.
P: Carnation. I can get Carnation for Mike.
Q: He doesn’t want it. He only wants showbusiness. (“O I M”)
P: You know that 25% we used to get? I’m raising it to 30% anyway. I get 30% now.
Q: 30% of nothing is still nothing. (“I LOVE”)
P: Pretty good. 30% of nothing.
( . . . )
Q: She’s never done anything. After the divorce, she was an introvert.
P: You’re making me out a heel of the worst kind.
Q: No, I’m not. No, that’s her own choice.
P: Yes but it’s not right.
Q: I asked her if she wanted to come and see you. The first time and she said, “Yes, I do.”
P: But that’s —
Q: The second time she said, “No, I don’t.”
P: She has no choice.
Q: What do you mean?
P: Well she never did nothing much. Was she married at all?
Q: No. You’re right. She never did nothing much.
P: Well I can’t worry about it. I’ve got to get my VA report and then I’ll —
Q: Right. (“OKAY” “POWER”)
( . . . )
Q: That was embarrassing when you said, winking at him —
P: Well I didn’t mean winking.
Q: — why’d you do that?
P: I meant you guys —
Q: That had a sexual connotation.
P: No no, I didn’t mean that. But I thought that he was going to give you two pumpkins (pies). You were — you kept saying —
Q: It wasn’t sexual?
P: He meant one for me but —
Q: Okay.
P: — I thought he — I thought you convinced him that you wouldn’t take anything but two —
Q: I thought you were trying to play matchmaker with me. (“NO”)
P: And I thought you two had decided (“TO”) thwart me. Thwart.
Q: Okay. Not have sex. Okay. (laughs)
( . . . )
P: . . . wasn’t getting up. I was trying to write —
Q: Well while you’re writing Michael’s check, well you tell me if — who is our third sibling in our family that we don’t know about?
P: The what?
Q: What is the name of the third sibling in our family?
P: The third who?
Q: You had another child by a previous marriage?
P: Who had a third child? Who?
Q: Did you?
P: Not me. Oh Bob.
Q: Bob did?
P: He got married in Florida with the Merchant Marines and her name was Iris. And they had a baby and — he mentioned it to you. You didn’t just dream this. They probably — or his wife mentioned it on the phone.
Q: No. What I saw as on the family tree under your name there were three different numbers.
P: No, that’s Bob’s.
Q: No. I’m telling you.
P: Bob — they all have three.
Q: No, they don’t. There were three different numbers.
P: Not me. I was married once before but I didn’t have any children.
Q: What was the name of your wife?
P: Jean.
Q: What was her maiden name?
P: Armstrong.
Q: Jean Armstrong. (“YEAH”) And did you have (“WW”) — so you didn’t have — so Michael and I are your only children?
P: Now where are my checks. I had a whole bunch of checks in here and I can’t find them. Now what would happen to them? I just took one out. You know I had a whole bunch of them there. Was it the other wallet?
Q: I have no idea.
P: My gosh. Go ahead — so —
Q: Maybe it wasn’t meant for you to give Michael a check today. Maybe next time you’re supposed to give him a check.
P: I know. I can’t send them in the mail. I keep putting off sending them in the mail.
Q: When we have lunch together, you can give it to him.
P: Wait a minute. I had — I thought I felt three or four checks, Mark.
Q: Well maybe they disappeared.
P: Okay, well let me get the other one. Hold this for a second.
Q: Maybe they dematerialized.
P: Witness it.
Q: Could they have dematerialized?
P: No no. I got a whole book right up here but I don’t want to start that book. I want to keep them in order in case the VA — oh God I got to get on that report. Here. They’re not —
Q: Got to hurry. Hurry. Hrr hrr —
( . . . )
P: . . . That’s the first problem.
Q: Did you ever in your life ever have a gay — (“I”)
P: What are we going to put here?
Q: Nothing.
P: I put “student loans.”
Q: Just say when I was your age —
P: Old — old — old — old — old —
Q: Old what?
P: Hat money.
Q: Okay, fine. Whatever.
P: Old — old what? Gold —
Q: Whatever you want. It’s your message.
P: Old — old debts. Old — I don’t want to put that. The VA ain’t going to check it. I’m the only one that gets it back.
Q: Did you ever have a gay relationship when you were a young man? When you were a teenager did you ever have any gay relationships?
P: I had no relationship of any kind. In those days, Los Angeles was a hook — a what-do-you-call-it town? A hick town.
Q: Okay.
P: Old —
Q: The movie industry was just starting.
P: Old —
( . . . )
Q: I must say that this place looks very, very nice. This retirement home.
P: Yeah, it was built seven years ago. Boy, it has —
Q: It looks like a beautiful, beautiful place.
P: — those doors. And the patio is in the —
Q: I just feel like it’s a very nice —
P: It’s a courtyard. (“IT’S LIKE”)
Q: It’s got very good karma. (“YEAH”) I just feel that these —
P: You can’t feel. You —
Q: The people seem nice.
P: You don’t know what’s — you don’t —
Q: Is it a hell inside?
P: No. No, it’s —
Q: Is it a limbo?
P: No, it’s right in-between. Right in-between.
Q: That’s what I said. Limbo.
P: Yeah. You were once — you got a lot of Mexican young people.
Q: Working there?
P: They’re working there. They’re hardly work — they work hard. And they got to change the diapers and all that stuff. You know.
Q: Oh my gosh.
P: Okay. Olden — gloves.
Q: Fine. Gloves. G — L — O — V — E — S as in golden gloves.
P: Instead of globe?
Q: Yeah. Do that.
P: Globe? How about old global?
Q: Fine.
P: . . . Global. (“I LIKE”)
Q: I have to vote for Goebbels because that World War II Goebbels?
P: What was your suggestion?
Q: Goebbels.
P: Goebbels?
Q: As in World War II?
P: Gobel? Oh George Gobel? Used to be on TV.
Q: Oh no.
P: There’s nothing Goebbels. In the war?
Q: World War II.
P: Goebbels?
Q: Wasn’t there a Nazi named that?
P: (different pronunciation) Oh Goebbels. G — O — E — B — B —
Q: Yeah. That’s enough.
P: Goebbel — Goebbels.
Q: Or gerbils.
P: Goebbels.
Q: Gerbils. Olden gerbils.
P: No, I don’t want no Mexican — I don’t want to — oh boy. Boy, you really got a — you go from one extreme to the other.
Q: And you don’t?
P: You go from God to hell and that — he was a bad man. Goebbels. (“GO GO”)
Q: Right. Let’s scare Michael a little bit.
P: It wasn’t his fault. It was Hitler’s fault. It wasn’t Hitler’s fault.
Q: Whose fault was it?
P: The Devil made him do it.
Q: There is no Devil.
P: There is too a Devil. There is no — you got — I messed the check up. Golden — what did I say? Gloves.
Q: Gloves.
P: Olden —
Q: Hurry. They’re waving us to go on.
P: — globes.
Q: “Go fish.”
P: Golden globes —
( . . . )
P: . . . brother.
Q: Do you — do we have a half-brother?
P: Yeah, he was too young to get married the first time. And he got married twice — again.
Q: Who?
P: Dad. He was ten years too young.
Q: No, but you. Did you — are you sure you didn’t have another son or daughter?
P: I had three or fourteen of them I guess.
Q: No you. You did?
P: I don’t know. I never knew.
Q: Out with it. Out with it. Out with it.
P: All I did was play tennis. If you can get babies by hitting a tennis ball a hundred miles an hour, I did it.
Q: Okay. Well thank you for a nice day.
P: Thank you.
Q: Thank you for the money and the pies.
P: Thank you. You saved me from another year of wondering. That’s my middle name. Stress.
Q: Okay.
P: Paul S. Wilbur.
Q: Okay. (“O”)
P: Worried Wilbur.
O: Okay, fine.
P: Worried Wilbur. (“OH MY GOSH”)
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) After today in taping, I’m really strongly beginning to think I should start editing these tapes. Across from his retirement home is The Landmark Bank.
( . . . )
Q: So my dad gave me these suitcases full of clothing he says that he got from various relatives — and that are brand new. I can’t imagine what they look like or what they must be but I’ll look through them. And he took back some things that someone sent him for Christmas and we exchanged it for some T-shirts and things. So he was being very nice and giving me things and gifts and things. So it was nice seeing him even though — my goodness, he’s not an easy person to deal with. All the people who he came into contact with were like — (“LIKE”) it took a long time at the bank to work out his transaction. Well you can hear it just from the interview what it’s like. I mean my goodness. Very difficult without even realizing it. I guess that’s what happens when you’re self-centered. It must run in the family.
( . . . )
Q: So I only have enough energy for at the most one antique store. So I guess I’ll go to the King place. (“SSS[O]”)
( . . . )
Q: So one of the things I’m thinking about as I drive home is my brother has found surrogates for both of his parents to work out certain issues. Because James is very much like my father in ways that might not seem obvious to you. But let’s just say there is a certain energy level and preoccupation level that is very similar. And the same thing with Andy, believe it or not. He does have a lot of characteristics that are very much like my mother’s in terms of being judgmental and they really got along well the two times they were together despite the fact that Andy’s gay. Oh my goodness, I’m passing Oshman’s Sporting Goods. So it’s very interesting to think about.
( . . . )
Q: Bruce Thompson Interiors — did I already mention that?
( . . . )
Q: I can’t believe it. I just found a Russell Street sign pointing to the right. I’m going down Whittier. Russell Street.
( . . . )
S: I will have to —
Q: I just fell in love with this piece because of the angels and everything.
S: Yes. You will have to stand in line for all this. I will give you —
Q: So what do you think — can you tell me anything about this piece?
S: I cannot, sir. I’m sorry. I am not —
Q: Okay.
S: — familiar with it.
Q: Thank you, Sue.
S: Could you tell him something about this?
D No, I can’t. I just — looking at it —
Q: I just fell in love with it.
D Oh I think it’s worth that price, though.
S: Oh yeah.
D: Yeah.
S: I assumed it was. You know, Joy had this. She —
Q: What’s your name?
D: Oh I have a whole space over her. I’m Dawn Carter.
Q: Oh, okay. Nice to meet you.
S: You hold on to that, sir.
D: I just think it’s nice.
Q: Okay.
S: And I’ll take this and set it aside for you . . .
Q: Okay. Thank you.
S: Thank you.
D: I couldn’t — I’m no appraiser or anything and I’m not — and I don’t know anything either.
Q: I just like pieces that I fall in love with.
D: Oh I think it’s nice —
Q: And I fell in love with it.
D: — but guess what I found in my booth? That’s why I came over here. Somebody dropped their cigarette down here.
S: But I don’t smoke.
D: Oh but could I put it in the trash? I don’t think it’s lit. It doesn’t look like it’s lit.
S: Just in the trash . . .
Q: Do you have like a ghost or something?
D: Pardon?
Q: Do you have like a ghost that’s leaving cigarettes around?
D: Oh no.
Q: Okay.
D: I just got a good look at your piece. I think that’s . . .
Q: Okay. Thank you.
( . . . )
Q: So I’m at — what is this? King —?
M: Richard’s.
Q: King Richard’s antique store buying something and the lady next to me is named Marla. And my name is Mark.
M: Okay.
C: She says she can take 10% off on this . . .
M: Everything mini?
C: Meaning?
Q: And she’s from India. (“I”)
C: The 10% off . . .
( . . . )
Q: If the little boy says buy it, I would always buy it.
?: Your little boy . . .
G: Mommy!
C: Can I see those?
M: The little one says buy it.
B: Mine is good.
Q: But your bank account says no, right?
B: Ma!
M: No —
C: Did you want your —
G: Ma!
M: — not even that.
Q: Oh.
G: Mommy but look!
M: I want her to come and see it.
Q: Okay.
M: She enjoys —
G: (yells)
M: Oh stop yelling . . . Oh my God.
( . . . )
Q: Oh you’re going to get it after all?
M: Either ways —
Q: See, I knew it. It’s karma.
C: Do you want to get all of them?
M: Yeah.
Q: What’s your religion?
M: I’m a Hindu.
Q: So what would you call it in Hindu?
M: What’s Hindu?
Q: Karma?
M: Karmic. We all just —
Q: Is karma Hindu?
M: Well yeah. I do not believe in karma.
( . . . )
Q: Okay, so she’s going to bring out my piece now so you can see it.
M: Okay.
G: No . . .
Q: Tell me if this is not an exquisite piece.
M: Alright.
( . . . )
Q: I collect — well I’ve been getting lots of interesting pieces like — (end of tape warning tones begin)
( . . . )
Q: I would call them like religious relics.
M: Oh really?
Q: For time’s sake.
M: Mmm.
( . . . )
Q: Isn’t that great?
M: I think it’s pretty.
Q: Great. This has angels and everything in it.
M: Very nice color. It has the green and — copper —
Q: Yeah. Copper.
M: Yeah
C: Copper shield. Pretty green.
( . . . )
Q: The kids get restless, don’t they?
M: I’m getting restless.
Q: Your — you have your hands full. How many children do you have?
M: Two and I left one home, though. The oldest one who can handle these two.
Q: Right. You’ll bring her next time.
M: I think. (“SO”)
C: I think you —
( . . . )
Q: I’m trying to think, like, what are the most famous shields in history. I don’t know of any famous shields in history.
M: I’m not into shields so I wouldn’t know.
Q: I wouldn’t — neither would I.
( . . . )
Q: My first time here. There are a lot of dealers here? (reply hard to hear)
( . . . )
Q: I mean so who am I buying this from?
( . . . )
Q: Who is dealer ten? I just won — curious to know what I’m buy — who I’m buying it from.
H: Uh-huh. Her name is Joy and it’s on the thing right here.
Q: Joy?
C: Yeah.
Q: Okay. Okay, great.
( . . . )
Q: Thank you. What’s your name?
H: Helen.
Q: Nice meeting you.
H: Nice meeting you. I hope you come back and see us.
Q: I definitely —
( . . . )
Q: I was talking and they all said I should go to Mattson’s because it’s very good. They even have Egyptian things. So I guess I’ll go by Mattson’s after all. What the heck. It’s Saturday. I’m having fun —
[2021 UPDATE: MONTHS OR YEARS LATER, I NOTICED THAT A FACE ON THE SHIELD IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE FACE ON THE EGYPTIAN ORNAMENT SEEN ON THE NEW TESTAMENT BOOK COVER. MY WEBMASTER LUMIR CREATED THE COVER AND WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ARTISTIC ELEMENTS FOR THE 1997 VERSION OF THIS WEBSITE. I PERSONALLY UPDATED THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE WEBSITE THAT INCLUDES THE ORIGINAL NEW TESTAMENT BOOK COVER.]
P: You’ve got it right except for the last number is four before.
Q: Okay. So the last number is four. (“OOO”)
P: The last number is O not four.
Q: O. The last number is zero.
P: Not four.
Q: Do you remember the rest of the number just in case I lost that other slip? (“SHOW ME HOW” “THEIR QUARTERS” “MEAN THEY DON’T WIN”)
P: (gives number)
Q: (repeats number) (“HERE WE GO AGAIN” “YEAH” “YEAH” “OKAY”) Okay. (“KEEP THE NAMES”)
( . . . )
(“BUT”)
P: At the last time that Allen was here, before (“HE WAS GOING”) he went back to Des Moines and he’d never been here since —
Q: What did he — he was the accountant for what company?
P: Mr. Cheeseman. (“AND ALL”)
Q: What is that?
P: Everybody knows it. I’ll tell you later.
( . . . )
Q: Was he living in Madison though?
P: No no — yeah. That’s a Wisconsin firm.
Q: He was living (“AT”) — he was in Madison.
P: In Madison working for Mr. Cheeseman but Mr. Cheeseman —
Q: ‘Son’ of ‘Man.’ Madison/Cheeseman. Son of Man?
P: No. No, Mark, that has nothing to do —
Q: Maybe. (“NOW THA”) You never know.
P: But that’s a good idea. You’re thinking. (“NO”) I can’t see what you’re thinking.
( . . . )
Q: If your teeth are too big, tell them they’re too big.
P: Can’t do it.
Q: Why not?
P: I’m not on MediCal. I mean I’m not on MediCal anymore. I’m on VA.
Q: You have to have teeth.
P: I’m Medicare only. (“MEDICARE”) Doggy bag. Listen — oh.
Q: I’m done.
P: You get any dessert?
Q: Yeah, maybe. (“O”)
( . . . )
Q: Why after all these years —
P: Because Bob —
Q: — are they sending you money?
P: Bob and Jeanne and Mary — no, Mary — (“BALL” “MARY MM”) Esther and Dorothy — they started writing him too. “We cannot hold grudges. We’re going to write him.” But they didn’t need any money anyway. But if they needed it, (“HE WOULD’VE”) he would send $100 or $200. Now he sends me $500. He hasn’t — this was thirty years ago.
Q: And so you’re going to address it over to me and I’m going to put it in my account?
P: Well sure. I’ve got to get — (“I”)
Q: Okay.
P: Now now since I was going to give you, as I told you, $800 — Los Angeles. (“BECAUSE”) Mikey didn’t take the $800. That $800 was for you. He’d already had $600 because he wrote me a letter and sent me back these checks, these small checks . . . (“NO”) I cashed them in and sent him $600. (“I LOVE YOU”) He never got it. And it wasn’t even him that sent the letter back. It was probably some fellows at a post office. But it could’ve been him. (“OKAY”) Now, they knew that I was writing. See, I’d written you guys for four years. Sacramento. The whole place is felons. (“GOD DAMN”) The whole town. (“SAY”) The post office. Everywhere you go. Kid gangs and felons. Right? So they got the $600. But I didn’t know that. And I figured he got his $600. So I sent you $800 — I sent him $800 before you. (“GOOD”) And then he didn’t take it because —
Q: Well it’s — (“FOR YOU”) we don’t need the money.
P: — Bob called him and said, “I got this check to forward you (“WELL”) and —”
Q: We didn’t need the money.
P: I know. That — I know that. I’m glad you don’t need it. And if I get $5 million and put it in, you’ll never need that. (“OKAY”)
Q: Exactly.
P: I’ve got to sign this.
Q: Well that’s very nice of you.
P: Yeah. And then you got — we’ll take it — if it’s three o’clock — it’s 2:30 now?
Q: 2:30.
P: We have to be there at three. Get a doggy bag.
Q: Okay.
P: Where’s the —
( . . . )
Q: Oh no. I mean I knew she had —
P: And you wanted to come out the next day.
Q: Now wait. She had a — the operation you mean?
P: Oh Ellen had an operation. Yeah.
Q: But did she fall too? I didn’t know she had fallen.
P: . . . That was the same night. She didn’t have a bad appendix. I told the doctor she didn’t have a bad — he says, “No.” She said —
Q: She had fallen. (“HE SAID”)
P: And then after he took it out, he says, “You want to see the appendix?” It was old. It was worn out.”
Q: No but I just remember —
P: That was the night she fell.
Q: I know that but she fell the same night? Was this . . .
P: (Be)fore (“YEAH”) we left. We were going to San Diego to see Esther and Dorothy and Dalton.
Q: Why did she fall?
P: I know. That is a long story.
Q: Well just tell me in one sentence why did she fall?
P: What are you going to do about it? You going to put it in a book?
Q: If it’s interesting enough.
P: We were having a drink before we left. We could never been having a drink. I put a little wine in the punch. She was pregnant so it was partly my fault.
Q: (laughs) (“O”) Oh no.
P: Mainly my fault. She was . . .
Q: Oh no.
P: But I got a good Social Security lawyer.
Q: Was she drunk?
P: “I’ll fight the case.” No. Not off a drink. (“YEAH”)
Q: After the divorce, she drank a lot.
P: Drank beers. (“NO”) She only drank one or two beers every night and . . .
Q: That’s an alcoholic.
P: And two aspirins. Not one but two every night.
Q: I remember that. (“NIGHT”)
P: The best thing in the world you could do. If you don’t get an ulcer. But she hasn’t checked for about thirty or forty years. She may have an ulcer. Don’t worry about it. I didn’t worry about it. I didn’t worry about nothing.
Q: But what did she fall — did she trip or stumble or what?
P: She jumped over the — (to waiter) I’m alright — she jumped over the coffee table.
Q: The coffee table at home? (“PROBABLY A” “WE WON”) why would she jump over the coffee table?
P: We were getting ready to go.
Q: I’ll ask her about it.
P: I don’t know. (“LA[TE]”) Don’t ask her. You didn’t find out from me . . . know her (“AA” “ROVING”) — that they — (“O GOD”) “Paul told me that you fell that night before you left.”
Q: Okay. I’ll see what she says. (“COVER” “EQUALLY”)
( . . . )
P: . . . biologies?
Q: I know a lot about medicine instinctually.
P: Bob may — huh?
Q: Yeah, how do you spell sulfa? S — U — L —
P: F — A —
Q: F — A.
P: Not PH. FA.
Q: So when you were taking that and they made you drink all that water —
P: At bed.
Q: — the water was what was helping you. Not the pills.
P: I know that. I know that. (“BB”) But how did you find out about all this? Medical knowledge?
Q: The Angel Mighael. (“KN”)
P: What else do you know about appendicitis? What do you know about that? What do you know about . . . What do you know about rabies?
Q: Why do you ask?
P: I just wondered. How much you know.
Q: Well I know that God can — can —
P: That’s Christian Science.
Q: No no no no no — I haven’t finished.
P: No? Science of Mind?
Q: No. God can sort of control animals through their subconscious minds so He can chose who gets rabies and who doesn’t.
P: Sure sounds — if you’re — if you let the body heal itself, it’ll heal itself.
Q: From rabies?
P: Anything.
Q: Okay.
P: Anything. It can’t heal it if you’re worried about it (“YOUR”) and your microbes are running and you’re nerve cells are running around: “I’m worried. I’m sick. I’m worried.”
Q: Of course. No, I agree with you.
P: It’s a rebirth . . .
Q: Exactly.
P: Of Christian . . .
Q: I told you I’m a Christian Scientist.
P: I know you are but I only took you twice. And then you got kicked out. I heard they let Mike stay but they kicked you — no, they let you stay and they kicked Mike out.
Q: Why did they kick Mike out?
P: I’m just kidding.
Q: Oh. (small spirit laugh)
P: You know where that was?
Q: No.
P: Glendale.
Q: I don’t have any memory of that.
P: Well you only went once or twice. You ever figure out where that church was on North Lake?
Q: No.
P: I know where it is but I’m not sure that’s the one you went to —
Q: I don’t remember.
P: — because you told me you were going to a church and —
Q: Oh right. (“UH-HUH”)
P: — and you told me it was on North Lake. And that’s the only one I ever saw.
Q: Not on Lake. (“WE LIVED”) Maybe on — the one on —
P: No, you told me you went to North Lake. I asked you what church?
Q: Paul wait. We never lived near Lake.
P: I know that. I don’t know how you got there. Ellen must’ve brought you. (“YES” “WAS THAT JULIE”) But you said you went to Church.
Q: What’s that street up near Del Rey? That street up near Del Rey?
P: Might’ve been.
Q: That was where we went.
P: But I thought you said Lake.
Q: No — went there.
P: This was fifty years ago.
Q: I think that was —
P: I mean forty — how old you are you now? (“THIRTY”)
Q: Thirty-nine.
P: Okay, it’s twenty years later.
Q: Do I look thirty-nine?
P: No. You’re looking younger than Jack Benny.
Q: Exactly.
P: Now. Not then.
Q: Thank goodness.
P: He’d go “Well” and everybody would laugh. (“WHY”)
Q: Well — (laughs)
P: Now cut that out, Dennis.
Q: What?
P: He’d say, “Now cut that out, Dennis.” Don. You remember Don? You don’t remember.
Q: Who do you like? Do you like David Letterman —
P: Don was the big fat guy. He was the leader of the band for Jack Benny.
Q: Do you watch David Letterman?
P: Not too much. I don’t — I never did watch . . .
Q: What about the other one?
P: I would if a star was on there that I liked their series or something.
Q: Right. (“RIGHT”) What stars do you like these days?
P: They’re none. I don’t know any of them.
Q: Really?
P: And I hate old movies.
Q: So what do you like?
P: If I turn on the radio, I’m wide awake. If I turn on the TV, then I sleep a little. Don’t worry about —
Q: It’s an interesting case.
P: I know. Who me?
Q: Yes.
P: I thought you were talking — Ellen.
Q: Oh.
( . . . )
Q: Did our mom ever cheat on you when you were married? (“MM”)
P: She went out with a gas-pumper.
Q: She did?
P: But that was after she moved you out.
Q: Real(ly?) — well what was his name?
P: I don’t know. She just went —
Q: Was that Red? Who was Red?
P: On no, that was in Pasadena later.
Q: Was that Bud? You mean Bud.
P: No, didn’t know him. You were — she moved from M(GM) — Culver City over a couple blocks. A few blocks. (“I’M WHITE” “AND”)
Q: But do you know — did you ever see Red?
P: . . . so long ago . . . they wouldn’t (“COME”) — I saw one guy coming into the back apartment when I was leaving one Saturday or Sunday. (“MURDER” “J”)
Q: Really? Are you sure that he was going to Ellen’s house?
P: . . . even then I couldn’t tell you exactly who he was.
Q: Are you sure he was going to see Ellen?
P: It could’ve ben Red.
Q: Are you sure he was going to see Ellen though?
P: He was coming up your back stairs. You remember your back stairs?
Q: No.
P: Oh that was before you moved over by the hospital. You were on a corner, remember?
Q: Right.
P: Then you moved back to the hospital?
Q: Right.
P: Okay. Well you wouldn’t — that was before you moved. He’d be coming up the back stairs on your Altadena —
Q: Right, I remember that (apartment).
P: But I couldn’t see who it was.
Q: Was this Bud or was it —
P: Probably was Red. I don’t know Bud . . .
Q: Are you sure it was human? Was it a ghost?
P: It was — a bell. It was Mark Gordon Bell. I mean whatever.
Q: My pseudonym? The Archangel Mighael coming in to scare me?
P: Why do you call him Michael for? If I was him, I’d talk you out of that.
Q: Well what would —
P: That’s alright. You’re a good writer.
Q: Exactly.
P: But I can’t even see what I’m thinking. How am I going to read it?
Q: Did you ever like angels? (“KNOW MUCH ABOUT EM”)
P: Angels?
Q: Do you believe in God?
P: Oh yeah. Oh you mean those kind. Yeah. And good thoughts. Christian Scientist would say an angel would —
Q: Are you a Christian Scientist?
P: Well the only thing I’ve been to. And I was there four times in the last fifty years.
Q: Do you pray to God? (“NOW”)
P: O now presence peace and joy and power your life divine . . .
Q: That’s good.
P: But you don’t know the stresses that it has pulled me through. It’s not as bad as living in Watts or Harlem. Where’s Harlem? Where’s the East?
Q: Near New York.
P: I don’t know. Watts. Not as bad as some areas but there every night bang bang bang boom boom boom.
Q: When you were in Glendale, it was pretty racy?
P: No.
Q: That’s the safest city in California.
P: What I’ve been through.
Q: Oh.
P: And you —
Q: The bikers?
P: — I was going for three —
Q: Remember the bikers?
P: — three or four nights with no sleep. You try it some time.
Q: I’ve never done that.
P: Well that’s what they do.
Q: Except when I was in Alhambra.
P: But they do have two or three people. Alhambra? Oh yeah. You told me about — (“THIS”) Now Alhambra is old retired people’s — a lot of seniors.
Q: What does that name mean? Alhambra?
P: I don’t know. That’s a Spanish thing.
Q: Something with the Moors or something.
P: I have no — I forget. But the seniors are there. I’ve been through there on the bus. (“YEAH”) They’re all seniors. And they probably sent you to some place like that to help you and to check you. But it had nothing to do with Alhambra. But the problem with Alhambra is there’s no place to go so they sent me out here. (“TELL”) Some lady said, “You could try Leisure Manor on Whittier Boulevard and Whittier.” I got here — it was in LaHabra. Orange County. “I don’t want no Orange County. I want L.A.”
Q: Is this the best part of your life now?
P: Huh?
Q: Is this your — the best time of your life? Retirement? (“YEAH”)
P: Your brain gets smarter but you can’t use it as much because it’s slower and you can’t see as well.
Q: But are you enjoying life? You don’t have to worry about making ends meet. I mean now is sort of a good time for you?
P: Yeah. After the VA helped me. But I had it rough — not because of money. Before that because of circumstances.
Q: Circumstances beyond your control.
P: And people. And roommates. And administrators. And waiters. And nurses’ aides.
Q: But you take the — some of the responsibility you have to take.
P: I don’t — I can walk away from it. But I try to help them two or three times and it don’t work.
Q: Okay. One question.
P: They get mad at me then I quit.
Q: One more question. If you’re the reincarnation of anybody, who do you think you were in a previous life? Who do you think you were?
P: Ahhh, my cells or me? (“NO”)
Q: What?
P: What’s —
Q: You.
P: Which cells?
Q: Paul Russell.
P: My corpuscles?
Q: All of you.
P: My nerve — my brain cells? My nerve —
Q: If you were alive in an earlier life —
P: Which part of me?
Q: All of you.
P: No, there is no such thing as all of you. God is all. We’re made up of particles (“NO”) — particles?
Q: Yes.
W: Need change for that . . .? Oh thank you very much.
Q: Okay, you’re welcome. Okay, so should we go? But you don’t think you had a previous life?
P: Hey, I got a —
Q: What? Eat something.
P: Yeah. I haven’t eaten much.
Q: Wait, we have to get our doggy bag too, don’t we?
P: I got one.
Q: You got it. Oh okay.
P: I can’t put the food . . .
Q: No, I know. No. Our mom loves doggy bags.
P: Oh yeah?
Q: The two of you both love doggy bags.
P: It’s not a matter of love. It’s a matter of self-preservation.
Q: Tell me about it.
P: You spent $10 or $15 for that.
Q: No, I know. No, I think it’s great.
P: And we don’t have a dog. We got one cat on the third floor.
Q: What color is it?
P: I don’t know. I haven’t seen the thing yet. (“YOU’RE RIGHT”)
Q: But if you were — just — it’s a game. If you were, like, the — if you are the reincarnation of somebody famous, who do you think you were in a previous life?
P: Which particle of me? I’m the reincarnation of a lot of things.
Q: Your brain. Like what?
P: My brain cells?
Q: Yes.
P: Which type of brain cell?
Q: Oh you’re insane. (“MAN”) You didn’t have any previous incarnations?
P: You’re made up of — well your socks. I don’t know. I have to call my —
Q: Your psychic?
P: (small laugh)
Q: Your psychic friends.
P: We got one across the street.
Q: Really?
P: Palmistry. (small laugh)
Q: Well ask her who you’re the reincarnation of and then tell me.
P: They don’t turn the light on any more at night. I think they’re retarded — retired.
Q: Okay. Well whatever. Think about it, though. Like I’m the reincarnation of somebody — an Egyptian named Bel-Marduk.
P: That’s — you know how I change words around?
Q: Yeah?
P: Gas. What was that? “Be my aghast.”
Q: Right? Like in the “Beauty and The Beast”?
P: They’re not funny but they don’t matter.
Q: Where did that idea come from because that ties — did you see “Beauty and the Beast”?
P: Yeah.
Q: “Be my guest. Be my guest.” Angela Lansbury?
P: When you were in Culver City before you moved, you were two years old.
Q: Yeah?
P: It used to be on TV. What’s that — “Yogi Bear”? And all them — not “Yogi.” Another bear. Horseface what-you-call-it? They used that “Be My —”
Q: “Quick-Draw McGraw”?
P: “Quick-Draw McGraw.” (“RIGHT”)
Q: They used “Be My Guest”?
P: Now I forgot. Oh. Reincarnate. Make it ‘preincarnate.’
Q: Okay. Who are you the preincarnation of?
P: Preincarnation.
Q: Who are you the postincarnation of?
P: Prein — Carnation milk. Hey, I can get that account for Michael.
Q: They only take entertainment clients.
P: Carnation. I can get Carnation for Mike.
Q: He doesn’t want it. He only wants showbusiness. (“O I M”)
P: You know that 25% we used to get? I’m raising it to 30% anyway. I get 30% now.
Q: 30% of nothing is still nothing. (“I LOVE”)
P: Pretty good. 30% of nothing.
( . . . )
Q: She’s never done anything. After the divorce, she was an introvert.
P: You’re making me out a heel of the worst kind.
Q: No, I’m not. No, that’s her own choice.
P: Yes but it’s not right.
Q: I asked her if she wanted to come and see you. The first time and she said, “Yes, I do.”
P: But that’s —
Q: The second time she said, “No, I don’t.”
P: She has no choice.
Q: What do you mean?
P: Well she never did nothing much. Was she married at all?
Q: No. You’re right. She never did nothing much.
P: Well I can’t worry about it. I’ve got to get my VA report and then I’ll —
Q: Right. (“OKAY” “POWER”)
( . . . )
Q: That was embarrassing when you said, winking at him —
P: Well I didn’t mean winking.
Q: — why’d you do that?
P: I meant you guys —
Q: That had a sexual connotation.
P: No no, I didn’t mean that. But I thought that he was going to give you two pumpkins (pies). You were — you kept saying —
Q: It wasn’t sexual?
P: He meant one for me but —
Q: Okay.
P: — I thought he — I thought you convinced him that you wouldn’t take anything but two —
Q: I thought you were trying to play matchmaker with me. (“NO”)
P: And I thought you two had decided (“TO”) thwart me. Thwart.
Q: Okay. Not have sex. Okay. (laughs)
( . . . )
P: . . . wasn’t getting up. I was trying to write —
Q: Well while you’re writing Michael’s check, well you tell me if — who is our third sibling in our family that we don’t know about?
P: The what?
Q: What is the name of the third sibling in our family?
P: The third who?
Q: You had another child by a previous marriage?
P: Who had a third child? Who?
Q: Did you?
P: Not me. Oh Bob.
Q: Bob did?
P: He got married in Florida with the Merchant Marines and her name was Iris. And they had a baby and — he mentioned it to you. You didn’t just dream this. They probably — or his wife mentioned it on the phone.
Q: No. What I saw as on the family tree under your name there were three different numbers.
P: No, that’s Bob’s.
Q: No. I’m telling you.
P: Bob — they all have three.
Q: No, they don’t. There were three different numbers.
P: Not me. I was married once before but I didn’t have any children.
Q: What was the name of your wife?
P: Jean.
Q: What was her maiden name?
P: Armstrong.
Q: Jean Armstrong. (“YEAH”) And did you have (“WW”) — so you didn’t have — so Michael and I are your only children?
P: Now where are my checks. I had a whole bunch of checks in here and I can’t find them. Now what would happen to them? I just took one out. You know I had a whole bunch of them there. Was it the other wallet?
Q: I have no idea.
P: My gosh. Go ahead — so —
Q: Maybe it wasn’t meant for you to give Michael a check today. Maybe next time you’re supposed to give him a check.
P: I know. I can’t send them in the mail. I keep putting off sending them in the mail.
Q: When we have lunch together, you can give it to him.
P: Wait a minute. I had — I thought I felt three or four checks, Mark.
Q: Well maybe they disappeared.
P: Okay, well let me get the other one. Hold this for a second.
Q: Maybe they dematerialized.
P: Witness it.
Q: Could they have dematerialized?
P: No no. I got a whole book right up here but I don’t want to start that book. I want to keep them in order in case the VA — oh God I got to get on that report. Here. They’re not —
Q: Got to hurry. Hurry. Hrr hrr —
( . . . )
P: . . . That’s the first problem.
Q: Did you ever in your life ever have a gay — (“I”)
P: What are we going to put here?
Q: Nothing.
P: I put “student loans.”
Q: Just say when I was your age —
P: Old — old — old — old — old —
Q: Old what?
P: Hat money.
Q: Okay, fine. Whatever.
P: Old — old what? Gold —
Q: Whatever you want. It’s your message.
P: Old — old debts. Old — I don’t want to put that. The VA ain’t going to check it. I’m the only one that gets it back.
Q: Did you ever have a gay relationship when you were a young man? When you were a teenager did you ever have any gay relationships?
P: I had no relationship of any kind. In those days, Los Angeles was a hook — a what-do-you-call-it town? A hick town.
Q: Okay.
P: Old —
Q: The movie industry was just starting.
P: Old —
( . . . )
Q: I must say that this place looks very, very nice. This retirement home.
P: Yeah, it was built seven years ago. Boy, it has —
Q: It looks like a beautiful, beautiful place.
P: — those doors. And the patio is in the —
Q: I just feel like it’s a very nice —
P: It’s a courtyard. (“IT’S LIKE”)
Q: It’s got very good karma. (“YEAH”) I just feel that these —
P: You can’t feel. You —
Q: The people seem nice.
P: You don’t know what’s — you don’t —
Q: Is it a hell inside?
P: No. No, it’s —
Q: Is it a limbo?
P: No, it’s right in-between. Right in-between.
Q: That’s what I said. Limbo.
P: Yeah. You were once — you got a lot of Mexican young people.
Q: Working there?
P: They’re working there. They’re hardly work — they work hard. And they got to change the diapers and all that stuff. You know.
Q: Oh my gosh.
P: Okay. Olden — gloves.
Q: Fine. Gloves. G — L — O — V — E — S as in golden gloves.
P: Instead of globe?
Q: Yeah. Do that.
P: Globe? How about old global?
Q: Fine.
P: . . . Global. (“I LIKE”)
Q: I have to vote for Goebbels because that World War II Goebbels?
P: What was your suggestion?
Q: Goebbels.
P: Goebbels?
Q: As in World War II?
P: Gobel? Oh George Gobel? Used to be on TV.
Q: Oh no.
P: There’s nothing Goebbels. In the war?
Q: World War II.
P: Goebbels?
Q: Wasn’t there a Nazi named that?
P: (different pronunciation) Oh Goebbels. G — O — E — B — B —
Q: Yeah. That’s enough.
P: Goebbel — Goebbels.
Q: Or gerbils.
P: Goebbels.
Q: Gerbils. Olden gerbils.
P: No, I don’t want no Mexican — I don’t want to — oh boy. Boy, you really got a — you go from one extreme to the other.
Q: And you don’t?
P: You go from God to hell and that — he was a bad man. Goebbels. (“GO GO”)
Q: Right. Let’s scare Michael a little bit.
P: It wasn’t his fault. It was Hitler’s fault. It wasn’t Hitler’s fault.
Q: Whose fault was it?
P: The Devil made him do it.
Q: There is no Devil.
P: There is too a Devil. There is no — you got — I messed the check up. Golden — what did I say? Gloves.
Q: Gloves.
P: Olden —
Q: Hurry. They’re waving us to go on.
P: — globes.
Q: “Go fish.”
P: Golden globes —
( . . . )
P: . . . brother.
Q: Do you — do we have a half-brother?
P: Yeah, he was too young to get married the first time. And he got married twice — again.
Q: Who?
P: Dad. He was ten years too young.
Q: No, but you. Did you — are you sure you didn’t have another son or daughter?
P: I had three or fourteen of them I guess.
Q: No you. You did?
P: I don’t know. I never knew.
Q: Out with it. Out with it. Out with it.
P: All I did was play tennis. If you can get babies by hitting a tennis ball a hundred miles an hour, I did it.
Q: Okay. Well thank you for a nice day.
P: Thank you.
Q: Thank you for the money and the pies.
P: Thank you. You saved me from another year of wondering. That’s my middle name. Stress.
Q: Okay.
P: Paul S. Wilbur.
Q: Okay. (“O”)
P: Worried Wilbur.
O: Okay, fine.
P: Worried Wilbur. (“OH MY GOSH”)
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) After today in taping, I’m really strongly beginning to think I should start editing these tapes. Across from his retirement home is The Landmark Bank.
( . . . )
Q: So my dad gave me these suitcases full of clothing he says that he got from various relatives — and that are brand new. I can’t imagine what they look like or what they must be but I’ll look through them. And he took back some things that someone sent him for Christmas and we exchanged it for some T-shirts and things. So he was being very nice and giving me things and gifts and things. So it was nice seeing him even though — my goodness, he’s not an easy person to deal with. All the people who he came into contact with were like — (“LIKE”) it took a long time at the bank to work out his transaction. Well you can hear it just from the interview what it’s like. I mean my goodness. Very difficult without even realizing it. I guess that’s what happens when you’re self-centered. It must run in the family.
( . . . )
Q: So I only have enough energy for at the most one antique store. So I guess I’ll go to the King place. (“SSS[O]”)
( . . . )
Q: So one of the things I’m thinking about as I drive home is my brother has found surrogates for both of his parents to work out certain issues. Because James is very much like my father in ways that might not seem obvious to you. But let’s just say there is a certain energy level and preoccupation level that is very similar. And the same thing with Andy, believe it or not. He does have a lot of characteristics that are very much like my mother’s in terms of being judgmental and they really got along well the two times they were together despite the fact that Andy’s gay. Oh my goodness, I’m passing Oshman’s Sporting Goods. So it’s very interesting to think about.
( . . . )
Q: Bruce Thompson Interiors — did I already mention that?
( . . . )
Q: I can’t believe it. I just found a Russell Street sign pointing to the right. I’m going down Whittier. Russell Street.
( . . . )
S: I will have to —
Q: I just fell in love with this piece because of the angels and everything.
S: Yes. You will have to stand in line for all this. I will give you —
Q: So what do you think — can you tell me anything about this piece?
S: I cannot, sir. I’m sorry. I am not —
Q: Okay.
S: — familiar with it.
Q: Thank you, Sue.
S: Could you tell him something about this?
D No, I can’t. I just — looking at it —
Q: I just fell in love with it.
D Oh I think it’s worth that price, though.
S: Oh yeah.
D: Yeah.
S: I assumed it was. You know, Joy had this. She —
Q: What’s your name?
D: Oh I have a whole space over her. I’m Dawn Carter.
Q: Oh, okay. Nice to meet you.
S: You hold on to that, sir.
D: I just think it’s nice.
Q: Okay.
S: And I’ll take this and set it aside for you . . .
Q: Okay. Thank you.
S: Thank you.
D: I couldn’t — I’m no appraiser or anything and I’m not — and I don’t know anything either.
Q: I just like pieces that I fall in love with.
D: Oh I think it’s nice —
Q: And I fell in love with it.
D: — but guess what I found in my booth? That’s why I came over here. Somebody dropped their cigarette down here.
S: But I don’t smoke.
D: Oh but could I put it in the trash? I don’t think it’s lit. It doesn’t look like it’s lit.
S: Just in the trash . . .
Q: Do you have like a ghost or something?
D: Pardon?
Q: Do you have like a ghost that’s leaving cigarettes around?
D: Oh no.
Q: Okay.
D: I just got a good look at your piece. I think that’s . . .
Q: Okay. Thank you.
( . . . )
Q: So I’m at — what is this? King —?
M: Richard’s.
Q: King Richard’s antique store buying something and the lady next to me is named Marla. And my name is Mark.
M: Okay.
C: She says she can take 10% off on this . . .
M: Everything mini?
C: Meaning?
Q: And she’s from India. (“I”)
C: The 10% off . . .
( . . . )
Q: If the little boy says buy it, I would always buy it.
?: Your little boy . . .
G: Mommy!
C: Can I see those?
M: The little one says buy it.
B: Mine is good.
Q: But your bank account says no, right?
B: Ma!
M: No —
C: Did you want your —
G: Ma!
M: — not even that.
Q: Oh.
G: Mommy but look!
M: I want her to come and see it.
Q: Okay.
M: She enjoys —
G: (yells)
M: Oh stop yelling . . . Oh my God.
( . . . )
Q: Oh you’re going to get it after all?
M: Either ways —
Q: See, I knew it. It’s karma.
C: Do you want to get all of them?
M: Yeah.
Q: What’s your religion?
M: I’m a Hindu.
Q: So what would you call it in Hindu?
M: What’s Hindu?
Q: Karma?
M: Karmic. We all just —
Q: Is karma Hindu?
M: Well yeah. I do not believe in karma.
( . . . )
Q: Okay, so she’s going to bring out my piece now so you can see it.
M: Okay.
G: No . . .
Q: Tell me if this is not an exquisite piece.
M: Alright.
( . . . )
Q: I collect — well I’ve been getting lots of interesting pieces like — (end of tape warning tones begin)
( . . . )
Q: I would call them like religious relics.
M: Oh really?
Q: For time’s sake.
M: Mmm.
( . . . )
Q: Isn’t that great?
M: I think it’s pretty.
Q: Great. This has angels and everything in it.
M: Very nice color. It has the green and — copper —
Q: Yeah. Copper.
M: Yeah
C: Copper shield. Pretty green.
( . . . )
Q: The kids get restless, don’t they?
M: I’m getting restless.
Q: Your — you have your hands full. How many children do you have?
M: Two and I left one home, though. The oldest one who can handle these two.
Q: Right. You’ll bring her next time.
M: I think. (“SO”)
C: I think you —
( . . . )
Q: I’m trying to think, like, what are the most famous shields in history. I don’t know of any famous shields in history.
M: I’m not into shields so I wouldn’t know.
Q: I wouldn’t — neither would I.
( . . . )
Q: My first time here. There are a lot of dealers here? (reply hard to hear)
( . . . )
Q: I mean so who am I buying this from?
( . . . )
Q: Who is dealer ten? I just won — curious to know what I’m buy — who I’m buying it from.
H: Uh-huh. Her name is Joy and it’s on the thing right here.
Q: Joy?
C: Yeah.
Q: Okay. Okay, great.
( . . . )
Q: Thank you. What’s your name?
H: Helen.
Q: Nice meeting you.
H: Nice meeting you. I hope you come back and see us.
Q: I definitely —
( . . . )
Q: I was talking and they all said I should go to Mattson’s because it’s very good. They even have Egyptian things. So I guess I’ll go by Mattson’s after all. What the heck. It’s Saturday. I’m having fun —
[2021 UPDATE: MONTHS OR YEARS LATER, I NOTICED THAT A FACE ON THE SHIELD IS VERY SIMILAR TO THE FACE ON THE EGYPTIAN ORNAMENT SEEN ON THE NEW TESTAMENT BOOK COVER. MY WEBMASTER LUMIR CREATED THE COVER AND WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR ARTISTIC ELEMENTS FOR THE 1997 VERSION OF THIS WEBSITE. I PERSONALLY UPDATED THE CURRENT VERSION OF THE WEBSITE THAT INCLUDES THE ORIGINAL NEW TESTAMENT BOOK COVER.]
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