INTERVIEW — TAPE #66, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
D: unidentified KSBA-FM 101.9 radio DJ
H: Holly Meyer, Jews for Jesus representative
B: Michael Paul Russell, my twin brother
U: James Ulmer
Q: I’m having lunch and “Here Comes The Sun” is playing on the radio. And I’m still finding more ‘son’s in the newspaper. For example, on page A11 there’ a picture of: “Lisa Hoffman and her daughter, Ashlynn, 8, find the going easy as they slid in Norfolk, Virginia where the high reached only 10.” And then I was reading an article in Life and Style entitled “Breaking Down The Walls” by Dwayne Noriyuki, Times staff writer. In the article, there is a woman who is a psychologist named Lynne Henderson who’s director of the Shyness Clinic located near Palo Alto. Below this article, there’s an article entitled “When The Laws of God and Man Converge” by Roy Rivenburg.
( . . . )
Q: This is a very inconclusive article (“THAT”) was inspired by events recently where a man who tried to use his faith against a charge of attempted spousal rape. The court didn’t buy it so this looks at very religions and what they say without really reaching any firm conclusion. There was one interesting section that talks about Jesus. “Therapist Clifford Penner says, ‘Some Christians, typically the husband, put a guilt trip on the woman using scripture verses and church teachings. They’ll say it’s her duty or that the Bible teaches that the man is the head of the marriage and the wife’s body is his,’ Penner explains. ‘But what they’ve done is take Bible passages or sermons about the husband heading the relationship and misapplied it to their sexual life,’ he says. ‘Christ’s headship was one of serving and washing feet, not domination and power.'” If only. Anyway, what a waste. I think it’s sad that a man—who is, I guess, accused of raping his wife and apparently the woman didn’t even want to press charges; and he ended up going to jail anyway—when people are getting away with murder and don’t have to do any time. Just shows you how crazy and confused society is and how much misspent energy is being put in the wrong places because people just have nothing better to do.
( . . . )
Q: I called my friend Larry Garrison and told him about my response to all these ‘son’s in my life and that I was finding new ones all the time like ‘Slauson‘ near where we used to live and like in The Beatles’ George Harrison. I mean it goes on and on and on.
( . . . )
Q: Rock Hudson.
( . . . )
D: . . . So there you go. More tickets coming up I’m sure this afternoon . . .
Q: I can’t believe it.
D: . . . Today is the last day that we’re going to have Jackson Browne tickets . . .
Q: Jackson Browne.
D: . . . compliments of KSBA and The Wherehouse, where they’ve been serving up the hits for twenty-five years. Here it is — “Doctor My Eyes.” Jackson Browne and FM 101.9.
Q: I can’t believe it.
( . . . )
Q: Okay, Holly, thank you for calling me back. Did you get my message, first of all?
Q: Oh.
Q: So you erased it by accident?
Q: As long as you erased it and no one else did.
Q: So no one else erased it. You did it by accident.
Q: Oh, okay.
Q: Well I’m glad you remembered my name. Anyway, yes, I read the book. I was looking through it because I was especially interested in the parts about Immanuel and Y’shua because — now are these references to Son of Man?
Q: The promised one, the Son of God, Immanuel — right.
Q: ‘God with us’ is the translation. Okay.
Q: Y’shua trans(lates) — I’m repeating this for my tape recorder. Y’shua translates ‘for salvation.’ Okay, got it.
Q: Wait, can you hold on? Can I go ahead and connect my tape recorder? This is very important. Okay, hold on.
( . . . )
Q: Okay —
H: You were asking about Y’shua?
Q: Yeah, right.
H: . . . is . . . Hebrew name for Jesus. And it translates to mean ‘salvation.’ And Immanuel means ‘God with us.’
Q: Right. Also now there was one — like, I guess it was in the Hebrew or symbol that wasn’t translated so I’m trying to find what page that’s on.
H: I don’t have one of those books in front of me but that’s okay.
Q: But I’ll tell you what page it’s on. Let’s see — page — I had all this ready for like last week when I called —
H: (small laugh)
Q: So now I have to look it up again. But — because like they had like the original Hebrew characters and there was one of them that I don’t think they actually translated. I’m trying to look for what page that’s on because, you know, I’m doing a book (“A”) about Son of God.
H: Oh. Uh-huh.
Q: And, anyway, it’s a long, long story. (“BUT”) I remember, like, the ad — seeing the ad that sort of was suggesting that he was alive now (“AN[D]” “YOU KNOW”) I guess. (“DD”) Do you know anything about that?
H: Well those of us who follow Jesus as our messiah or our savior believe that when he came to Earth as a human that was for a duration of time and for a purpose to bring the message of salvation to anyone who was willing to receive it. And that he returned to heaven and lives there not in a bodily — you know, not in a human form but in spirit.
Q: Right. Do you think — in terms of the Bible do you think much of it is metaphor? (“OR”) Or how do you feel about that? There’s an interesting book by — (“A”) A Revolutionary Biography of Jesus by Crossan.
H: So it’s a C or a K?
Q: With a C.
H: Like Craussen?
Q: C — I think it was Crossan. (“BUT”) Basically, it talked — he did a lot of research. (“AN” “HE HAD”) He had found a lot of it was metaphor and allegory. And I’m not really sure at this point. I think probably (“LL”) there is some physical basis but most of it I think is metaphor and allegory to teach the aspect of redemption. But anyway —
H: Will if you read in the New Testament accounts (“YEAH”) — like if you were just to take one of —
Q: Yeah.
H: — the first four gospels and read through it. Like in Matthew? I believe that Jesus several times refers to people from the Old Testament speaking of them as though he knows them and that to me helps verify that people like Moses and Isaiah and Jonah were actual people who lived —
Q: Oh I believe that too.
H: But then you —
Q: Don’t get me wrong. I do believe that.
H: Okay.
Q: Yeah. No I just —
H: And then if you read further in the accounts in the four gospels of Jesus’s life, I believe that the events that they—the followers of Jesus like Matthew and John—wrote down actually happened. But then there are times when Jesus speaks in parables. For example —
Q: Exactly.
H: — when he’s trying to illustrate a point because a parable is really just basically a story with a point.
Q: Right.
H: So there are times that he does that.
Q: And what’s interesting about the organization Jews for Jesus is that these are Jewish people who believe in Jesus as being the Son of God.
H: That’s right. Are you also Jewish?
Q: Well I thought I was when I responded but — because I had met someone else (“WITH THE”) — because my mother was adopted and her maiden name was King. And I met someone else who was Jewish named King but it turns out she sort of gave herself the name. So now I don’t know. I do have a genealogist who’s working on it because I have had a lot of religious events. Like I’ve had burning bushes and things like this. I’m sort of channeling the Angel Mighael. I’m writing a Testament for mankind from the Angel Mighael. So it’s like I’m trying to figure — well I think I am ‘Son of Man’ actually.
H: I’m sorry — what did you just say?
Q: I know. Can you believe this? (“I’M”) I think I am actually ‘Son of Man.’
H: You mean related to Jesus? Is that what you’re saying?
Q: Right. I think like Jesus was a metaphor. I mean I think there was a man named Jesus but he wasn’t the Son of God — I mean he was the son of — we’re all each a god, I think. I think each one of us is a god but he was — see, I don’t know — this is what I’m trying to figure out in my research. Because basically it’s a long story. It has to do with — you know, I’ve worked at Paramount Pictures for many years in the publicity department as a staff writer. So I guess it was that mountain symbol that came in very handy for God. So basically I had these like burning bush(es) — I had two burning bushes because I know Moses had one or — I mean who knows if the Bible is correct or not? (“BUT”) And you know I’ve been going — doing a lot of research about Jonah. I heard a lecture this weekend and I can verify it’s very true that when you do have a religious experience there are no ifs, ands or buts. So, anyway, I’n trying — so that sign was very important to me . . . (momentary listening device malfunction/in terms of?) anything having to do with heraldic symbols and what-have-you because, of course, my mother’s name was King and —
H: Is that — how do you spell that?
Q: K — I — N — G.
H: Oh, okay. King.
Q: And my father’s name is Russell, which is like — I traced that back as being like the first race of ancestry. So I’m not quite really sure how it all fits in but —
H: Yeah. Well let me ask you Mark are you a person who prays to God?
Q: Constantly. It’s like He’s living with me.
H: Well one of the things that I think — maybe you’ve already done this but one of the things that I think is really good to do—when we have a lot of different thoughts and questions—is just to pray to God and to ask Him to show us the truth from the Bible —
Q: Well you know what He’s done for me, for example? In going out shopping for like just normal — (“LIKE FOR”) I needed something to keep my press kits in. I ended up getting the Ark of the Covenant. I didn’t know it at the time. But it fits the dimensions exactly. I’ve also gotten the Holy Grail, the Declaration of Independence —
H: (small laugh)
Q: I mean you can(‘t) — I can’t believe all the — like I got a Buddhist temple door that had once belonged to Buddha and I’m getting all these — (“AND”) and like “The Last Supper,” this old — I think it (“MI”) Michelangelo or something. But — so it’s like you know He’s definitely proving His existence through me and I’m just — I’m now trying to get people to help me with this assignment of proving that He exists. For example, one of the things I realized is there are a lot of people in my life with the name ‘son’ in it and there are a lot of like big stars, for example, (“WHO”) who share the name Michael as in the Archangel Mighael; and have the word ‘son’ in it. (“LIKE”) Michael Jackson, Magic Johnson —
H: Is that your phone?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: HOLLY APPARENTLY NOTICED UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS AND THESE CAN BE HEARD ON THE MICROCASSETTES. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THEY COULD BE CAUSED BY THE LISTENING DEVICE.)
Q: No.
H: Oh okay. I just hear a lot of clicking.
Q: Oh okay. Well that might be my tape recorder.
H: Oh. (“BUT”)
Q: Magic Johnson — well you can name all the — there are so many ‘sons’ that are (“YOU KNOW”) big and famous right now. So, anyway, (“IF YOU”) I don’t have — I can’t find that symbol.
H: Well you know what? If you find —
Q: If you could just give my name to some people over there and have them do some — and see and have — just tell them that I really think that I am the Son of Man. And see if they can —
H: Well Mark can I pray for you before we hang up?
Q: Sure, you can — yeah. I need your help. Trust me.
H: And one other thing —
Q: Pray for me to get an agent and a publisher.
H: (small laugh) Okay. One of the things that I was going to suggest to you is when you’re reading this book —
Q: Yeah, I’ve read it.
H: Okay — is that afterwards that you take one of the four gospels like either Matthew, Mark, Luke or John —
Q: Well my name is Mark so —
H: Okay take Mark and read it all the way through. And as you have questions write them down. (“NO” “AA”)
Q: Well I don’t really have — I take the book on a whole as a book of being faith. The one thing that really pisses me off about the Holy Bible is that it isn’t very funny. So, of course, my book is going to be very humorous because this isn’t something that I ever planned on. I mean I was thirty-nine years old (“BEF” “I WAS”) — thirty-nine years old before I realized that God was living with me. He basically made up this poltergeist chronology. (“I”) I thought I was going to buy (“TH”) the rights to a poltergeist story in Oklahoma and it turned out (“TH”) the Angel Mighael had planned the whole thing. So this is what my book is about.
H: Okay. (“BUT”)
Q: It’s like I’m trying to let people in the world know that I’m here just because I think that’s what the Son of Man should be trying to do. (“SO”)
H: Well let me ask you another —
Q: I mean I’ve contacted the Mormon church about the names project.
H: Oh yeah, they’re very good at having a lot of information.
Q: Yeah. Because I just think it’s so weird that like my mother’s name is King and Russell (Arms) is like major heraldic symbol with a big lion and I’m Leo the lion as like in the Sphinx was originally a lion before the pharaoh carved his face in it. I mean basically the Angel has let me know a lot of truths of mankind. He doesn’t talk to me. (“BUT”) When I do interviews with people He talks on my interviews and reveals secrets of nature.
H: Mark?
Q: Yeah?
H: Did you grow up in any particular church denomination? Did you ever —
Q: Well I would go to Sunday school once in a while. Like I would go to the Church of the Brethren and the Nazarene — just sort of non-denominational once in a while when my parents wanted to get me out of the house.
H: Have you — I don’t know exactly where you live but —
Q: I live in Echo Park right across from the Angelus Temple.
H: Oh yeah. I know somebody who goes to that particular church. But I was going to say there are a lot of —
Q: Well now I’ve been —
H: — movie industry people and writers and actors that go to a church in Studio City called In His Presence.
Q: Oh really?
H: Yeah. I have a couple friends —
Q: Well I go to the Philosophical Research Center.
H: Pardon?
Q: The Angel Mighael has sort of channeled through — (“YOU KNOW”) basically He — have you seen the movie “12 Monkeys”?
H: No I haven’t.
Q: Well this is sort of a very religious movie because it has to do with the subconscious mind — God channeling through subconscious minds. But basically I was led to go to this church called the Philosophical Research Society in — on Los Feliz.
H: Is that like Pasadena?
Q: No, it’s right here in L.A. (“II — IT’S”) You know — right in L.A. It’s near me actually. And like this next weekend they’re having something on reincarnation. (“I”) Actually I’m not — you know when I — this first start(ed) — happened and I had the burning bushes and everything I thought I was — “Oh my God, I’m the reincarnation of Jesus. (“BUT”) It turns out that I’m not. I did find an Egyptian medallion of the god (Amun-)Ra who was also named Bel-Marduk. So I think I’m actually the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk.
H: Well I was just going to suggest —
Q: Because some people say that (“I”) the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that there was no — (“YOU KN” “VER”) there’s very few little physical proof of Jesus’s existence. So some people think that the Jesus story, a lot of it, was based on Bel-Marduk, a myster(ium) — (“YOU KNOW”) a pre(-Christian) mysterium play about the life of Bel-Marduk.
H: Well I have to admit a lot of what you’re talking about is out of my league but —
Q: It’s out of my league. It’s out of everyone’s league.
H: But what I was going to tell you that if you’re ever interested in going somewhere to worship or to learn where there are a lot of people in the same industry as you, I —
Q: Well I’m not in it right (now) — anymore really. Now I’m writing my book full-time.
H: Well I was just going to recommend —
Q: But you know . . .
H: . . . interested at some point in time, you want to check it out. The church called In His Presence.
Q: Is that where you go?
H: No. No, that’s not where I go.
Q: Well why wouldn’t you recommend me the church where you go?
H: Well I would if I thought that was something (“CAUSE”) —
Q: The people you —
H: — you’d be interested in. And I just was — you know what? One of the things we do in Jews for Jesus because we’re not a church is we try to recommend churches that would be of interest to people. Like where they’re coming from? I just thought this would be something that you’d be interested in.
Q: Okay. And let me recommend a book for you by Mark Twain. It’s Letters From The Earth by Mark Twain.
H: Okay.
Q: Definitely channeled material from the God.
H: Alrighty.
Q: It’s like a lost holy book of the Bible. But, anyway, (“LIKE”) somebody told me when I called —
H: Mark.
Q: Yeah.
H: I’m sorry. I need to go. But —
Q: Okay, right. But I’m just saying that if you could ask, though, that other — the gentleman there who’s like an expert on Jewish handwriting — just what that symbol meant —
H: Well I need to know what page it was on.
Q: Yeah, okay, I’m looking right now. I’m trying — I’m turning through my book and . . .
H: . . . call back —
Q: Okay.
H: — you’re welcome to.
Q: Okay, I think I have — I did keep your number so I will.
H: Okay.
Q: Okay, great.
H: Alright.
Q: Thank you.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I WAS REFERRING TO HEBREW CHARACTERS—INDICATING SOME FORM OF SIGN—THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE ARTICLE “THE PROMISED CHILD,” BY EFRAIM GOLDSTEIN, ON PAGE 28 OF THE JEWS FOR JESUS 1995 PUBLICATION A MESSIANIC LOOK AT CHRISTMAS AND HANUKKAH. THE FOLLOWING WAS RECORDED AT THE SCOTTISH-THEMED TAM O’SHANTER INN RESTAURANT IN THE LOS FELIZ AREA. AS USUAL IN TRANSCRIBING, I INCLUDE ONLY SPIRIT MESSAGES THAT I CAN HEAR CLEARLY AND IN THIS CASE DIFFERENTIATE FROM THE AMBIENT ROOM CONVERSATION.)
B: So Mark —
Q: I’m sorry I’m late. Just as I was about to leave, I got a call from Jews for Jesus.
U: Mark okay fine — no.
Q: No, I know. I’m just telling you.
U: I don’t want —
( . . . )
Q: So I just explained to James and Michael why I was late. I’m actually asking these people for help even though I know no one will ever believe me. So it’s like (“AT LEAST”) at least I don’t have to feel like I’m not being forthright about this. (“BLIP”) So, anyway, I’m now writing a tell-all book about Hollywood (“YES”) because I think this is going to be very good karma for the industry (“BEAU” or “BOW” “GREAT”) because every movie made is a miracle (“I HOPE”) and every miracle made is a movie. So Michael’s going to tell me — we’re going to talk about famous stories and gossip without naming names and Michael’s got something very interesting to tell me. Some rumors he heard from some people recently.
B: There’s a certain CEO at a major studio who’s married (“CAL”) and thrives on his image as being a family man. This same said being rents cars and tours —
U: Back alleys.
B: — back alleys behind Drake’s looking for fresh young boys.
Q: In leather.
U: In the days when they could do that.
B: Also, he was caught by his own — one of his assistants at a male porno theatre jerking another dude off next to him in the stall.
Q: You heard that too?
B: Yes. Tom. Remember?
Q: Who?
B: A Tom. His last name will not be known.
Q: Is that the one who was working with you at the theatre? (“MIGHAEL or MICHAEL LOVES YOU”)
B: No no. (“NO” “THIS WAS”) He used to work for the same executive at (“FINE”) — at a certain ‘P’ studio.
Q: Okay.
U: (laughs)
Q: I wonder which one that is.
B: Anyway —
Q: There’s only one. (“MICHAEL” “FUN”)
B: I went to a dinner party once and everybody at the dinner party had a story about this same said person. About his notorious goings-on in gay bars. He would come up to people and introduce himself as a traveling salesman named Eric. And everybody knew who he was and they would play along just to see the pretentiousness go on and on. And everybody had bizarre stories about him.
U: Does his kids know about this?
B: God only knows. (“NO AND”)
Q: Didn’t you say that Garrison had a run-in with him?
B: Oh yeah. Garrison, who was an accountant at a movie (studio), was once followed home by him. And this executive came on to him and wanted to go up to his room and do him but it was not to be. (waitress says something)
U: Oh thank you.
Q: Keep going.
U: That’s all.
( . . . )
Q: But what about Jay? Didn’t Jay have an almost-run-in too? No? You said he had.
B: I don’t remember.
Q: Jay.
B: Which one?
Q: The studio executive. Did you — you had a run-in.
B: Jay?
Q: Jay Marc.
B: I don’t remember.
Q: Oh my God — I just said his last name. You were telling me that Jay had had a run-in with him. (“NO”) Didn’t he tell you that? (“I”)
U: I thought so.
Q: Exactly.
U: I don’t remember the specifics.
Q: James just said — James is my witness. Two against one. (“YES”)
U: No . . .
Q: So (or “SO”) —
B: I don’t remember. (“NO”)
Q: I’m just saying in terms of the studio executive — of course you know my Angel is named Mighael. Might the studio executive have something in common with my Angel, James?
U: They both got their wings clipped.
Q: Well I think that’s a good ending for my tape.
B: They both have a perverse mind.
Q: Well I can vouch for that. Trust me on this one. (“BUT”) Do you think Mighael likes kinky gay sex? I mean you saw (“THE”) that Hun comic. (“NO”)
B: Yes.
Q: We’re just running — we’re just going to go until we run out of tape because it’s almost winding down. (“NO PERHAPS” “COME ON” “RED”)
U: It might be telling you something right there.
Q: What other scandals do you know? Recently? (“PUT THE MATTER”)
U: I know of one where two studio execs at a male — (“HO”) gay male party — there were naked waiters — half-naked waiters serving hors d’oeuvres and as I (“WAS”) went — pushed in this crowded party I noticed there was a little activity happening in a back room. In a side room. And I looked closer. I saw a lot of Warner Bros. executives — some very big people gathered around one of these bronzed and sweating youths who was lying horizontal on the thing naked except for a G-string. And there was this glorious line of coke going from the tip of his nostril to the tip of his pee-pee. And there was a few very, very wealthy and very well-known executives who were taking turns rolling up a hundred dollar bill and sniffing a few inches of coke. And the lucky one got the last bit which went right down to the pee-pee. (“BUT UM”)
Q: Now but these — these people are out though, right? A lot of executives aren’t out in Hollywood.
U: Some of those were. But not — not at that point . . . (“MEAN LIKE”)
Q: For example, like who are some of the studio executives who everyone knows are gay and it’s no big deal? I think that these people are commendable people.
U: David Geffen.
Q: David Geffen —
U: Who was at that party.
Q: — Scott Rudin —
B: Chris Pula.
Q: Where’s Chris Pula now?
B: New Line — head of marketing.
Q: Oh right. Anyone else? (“YOU CAN THINK OF”)
B: Scott Rudin.
Q: I guess Blaise Noto at Paramount. He’s open about his sexuality.
B: Scott Rudin.
Q: Right. We’ve said his name a few times. Let’s see — who else? (“ROY BOB”)
Who else?
B: Mark Russell.
U: Amy Schifler.
Q: Who?
U: Claudia Eller’s lover.
Q: Oh okay. (“OH RIGHT”)
B: Leslie Belzberg.
Q: Belzberg? Oh my God. There’s a definite —
B: Leslie Belzberg, remember? John Landis’s associate.
Q: Let’s see — who else? I keep remembering people too, Michael, with the name ‘son’ in them. Like when I was working at Ruth Webb — Kathryn Grayson —
B: What about Goodson?
Q: Who?
B: Mark Goodson. Who did “Jeopardy.”
U: Mark Goodson — Goodson Todman (Productions).
Q: Exactly — no — and then there’s also a lot of people who have ‘man’ in it.
U: Goodson Todman — son man. Son of Man.
Q: Listen — Dody Goodman.
U: Life is a gameshow.
Q: Man — Dody Goodman. Kathryn Grayson.
U: But that’s a typical English . . .
Q: Joan’s husband Rodger Gibson.
B: Sonny Skies. Sonny Skies.
Q: Sonny Bono.
U: (chuckling) Mark is looking and (“NO”) raising his eyes
Q: I mean it’s true. It’s true. So come on, James; Michael, come on — what are some other executives that are out or some other good scandals? Real quick. I still have a little bit of tape left.
U: Val Kilmer.
Q: Is he gay?
B: Who?
Q: Val Kilmer?
U: I have it on very good authority from a friend — an acquaintance who ran a masseur agency — that three times he was called over to Val’s place to do some — let’s just say deep tissue work.
Q: Did you hear that rumor that he was doing it with Robin during the making of “Batman”?
U: I’m not surprised.
Q: Did you hear that Michael? About Batman and Robin doing it?
B: Yes, of course.
Q: Where did you hear it from?
B: Joel. Oops. I mean a certain director around town.
Q: Are you kidding?
U: (laughs) Stop — “oh Joel — oops. I mean —” (laughs) That was good, Arf.
Q: Michael, we worked with —
U: That’s the best one yet. It was so fake.
Q: Michael — we worked with him on “Cousins.”
U: Arf has a huge smile on his face . . .
B: Oh please.
Q: Who else can we talk about tonight? Real quick. There’s a little bit of tape left. Come on, Michael. You know all the dirt.
B: There’s so much dirt, I can’t see straight.
Q: Come on. (“WELL”)
B: Why? What do you want to know?
U: Ahh.
Q: Hurry.
B: Richard Gere . . .
U: Dilly-Poo.
Q: What?
U: Barry Diller.
Q: Richard Gere went to the Moscow Film Festival —
U: And every morning he was found with his lover at 7:30 working out in the gym and let’s just say they weren’t just sweating over the isometric machines.
Q: Which gym was this?
U: In the hotel in Moscow.
Q: Oh really?
U: Yes. Inna saw them.
Q: But he’s out, though.
U: No, he’s not.
Q: Barry Diller?
U: No, Richard Gere. (“OH”)
Q: I thought you said Barry Diller.
U: No, that was before. Barry Diller was known to be — he put the glory holes in Paramount’s bathrooms. You know that.
Q: Right. And the sun decks. (“DID’N”) Wasn’t that roof a cruisy area, Michael? (“KIND”) Weren’t you ever approached by someone? Oh wait — “The Hunt For Red October.” The star who did it in the men’s gym?
B: Alec Baldwin.
Q: Michael, no — you’re not naming names. (“YOU’RE”) We’re not naming names.
B: A certain man who’s married to an actress who was in “9 Weeks.”
U: (laughs) A little more subtle, please.
Q: Right. I’m trying to think.
U: Alright, Mark, quit while you’re ahead. (“BUT”)
Q: You know when you think of all the people with the name ‘man’ or ‘son’ in them — (“LIKE”) Nicole Kidman — I mean it just makes you nuts. (“THERE ARE SO MANY”)
B: What?
U: Because ‘man’ is a typical ending for a name . . .
Q: Yes but there seems to be more of them —
U: There is.
Q: — in Hollywood.
U: No, there are not. You go to England, you find hundreds of them.
B: Did you hear about the new movie (“DANCE”) Fox is making called “Son of Man”?
Q: No. Is that true? You’re lying.
B: Wouldn’t that be funny if there was.
Q: That’s my movie.
B: “Son of Man.”
Q: That’s my movie and it’s a Paramount production. I hope. If Sherry Lansing —
U: If Sherry Lansing has anything to do with it, it won’t.
Q: If Sherry Lansing gets her — gets off her back long enough and stops servicing those producers and reads my script, maybe I’ll have a film deal there.
U: Cut.
Q: No.
B: Back to back . . .
Q: No — (“YOU DON’T”) you don’t — you have to remember, James. I never cut my tapes because you remember what happened (“WHEN”) when I try to edit my tapes, Mighael gets very mad. (“HOR MOVIE” or “WHORE MOVIE”) And He can really be a bitch. Like in the Laurie Anderson song? And so can I. That’s why I’m doing this book. And I can’t wait to interview Fiona.
U: Stick around til Thursday night. I got a date with Fi-fi.
Q: Really?
U: Yeah. In the evening. I’m going to take her to a movie too.
Q: Oh okay, well if you want —
B: Guess what I’m seeing Thursday night?
U: What?
B: “The Grass Harp.” Charley Matthau’s film. AFI.
U: Oh really?
Q: I remember meeting him when he was doing that science fiction film at Cannon.
I met him. It’s like I’ve met everyone at some point or other. It’s so weird.
B: Have you ever met yourself?
Q: What do you mean?
U: Have you met yourself?
Q: I did on my medallion. That little picture of me on the medallion.
U: No, have you spiritually met yourself?
Q: Yes. Mighael is my Soulmate. The Angel Mighael is my Soulmate.
B: (singing) “I’ve never been to me —” What was that song? “I’ve been to — I’ve never been to me.” Remember that song? “I’ve Never Been To Me.”
U: No.
B: That song?
Q: Who sung it?
B: I don’t know. Some maudlin singer.
U: (singing) “I love me. I love me. I’m wild about myself. I love me. I love me. My picture’s on my shelf. I’ll take me to the movie show. Well I’ve met myself.”
Q: Who wrote this song or who sung this song?
U: My mommy used to sing it to me. (“AND”)
Q: She really knew who she was singing to. (“OH” “BECAUSE”)
U: When I was looking in the mirror being vain as a child she would sing that to me.
Q: Positively hedonistic.
B: What about “You’re So Vain”?
Q: I’ve already talked about that.
U: “I’m bleeding,” he said vainly.
B: (singing) “I bet you think this song is about Mighael.”
Q: No about me.
U: Okay, that’s it. Over — done — finish.
Q: No, it’s still got a little bit to go.
U: Phallic, thrusting umbrella looming from that lady’s purse.
Q: James, you have only one thing on your mind.
U: Pointed very cleverly at the man next to her. I think that woman is actually a gay man.
B: . . . just moved.
Q: What moved?
B: This dark figure of —
U: You’re right it did.
B: — moved. See, the suck in of bagpipes?
U: Oh my God. I’ll bet that’s our spirit — the leprechaun. (“OUT”)
B: It really comes alive at night when the lights are off . . .
U: One of those things — it does look like one of those things from “Night Gallery.”
Q: James, Michael — look at the lion on the wall. (“HELP ME”) There’s a lion on the wall as we speak. And there’s a crown on the milk jar.
B: There’s a bell.
Q: Where’s the bell? Do you see a bell?
U: Let me just see.
( . . . )
Q: This is a very inconclusive article (“THAT”) was inspired by events recently where a man who tried to use his faith against a charge of attempted spousal rape. The court didn’t buy it so this looks at very religions and what they say without really reaching any firm conclusion. There was one interesting section that talks about Jesus. “Therapist Clifford Penner says, ‘Some Christians, typically the husband, put a guilt trip on the woman using scripture verses and church teachings. They’ll say it’s her duty or that the Bible teaches that the man is the head of the marriage and the wife’s body is his,’ Penner explains. ‘But what they’ve done is take Bible passages or sermons about the husband heading the relationship and misapplied it to their sexual life,’ he says. ‘Christ’s headship was one of serving and washing feet, not domination and power.'” If only. Anyway, what a waste. I think it’s sad that a man—who is, I guess, accused of raping his wife and apparently the woman didn’t even want to press charges; and he ended up going to jail anyway—when people are getting away with murder and don’t have to do any time. Just shows you how crazy and confused society is and how much misspent energy is being put in the wrong places because people just have nothing better to do.
( . . . )
Q: I called my friend Larry Garrison and told him about my response to all these ‘son’s in my life and that I was finding new ones all the time like ‘Slauson‘ near where we used to live and like in The Beatles’ George Harrison. I mean it goes on and on and on.
( . . . )
Q: Rock Hudson.
( . . . )
D: . . . So there you go. More tickets coming up I’m sure this afternoon . . .
Q: I can’t believe it.
D: . . . Today is the last day that we’re going to have Jackson Browne tickets . . .
Q: Jackson Browne.
D: . . . compliments of KSBA and The Wherehouse, where they’ve been serving up the hits for twenty-five years. Here it is — “Doctor My Eyes.” Jackson Browne and FM 101.9.
Q: I can’t believe it.
( . . . )
Q: Okay, Holly, thank you for calling me back. Did you get my message, first of all?
Q: Oh.
Q: So you erased it by accident?
Q: As long as you erased it and no one else did.
Q: So no one else erased it. You did it by accident.
Q: Oh, okay.
Q: Well I’m glad you remembered my name. Anyway, yes, I read the book. I was looking through it because I was especially interested in the parts about Immanuel and Y’shua because — now are these references to Son of Man?
Q: The promised one, the Son of God, Immanuel — right.
Q: ‘God with us’ is the translation. Okay.
Q: Y’shua trans(lates) — I’m repeating this for my tape recorder. Y’shua translates ‘for salvation.’ Okay, got it.
Q: Wait, can you hold on? Can I go ahead and connect my tape recorder? This is very important. Okay, hold on.
( . . . )
Q: Okay —
H: You were asking about Y’shua?
Q: Yeah, right.
H: . . . is . . . Hebrew name for Jesus. And it translates to mean ‘salvation.’ And Immanuel means ‘God with us.’
Q: Right. Also now there was one — like, I guess it was in the Hebrew or symbol that wasn’t translated so I’m trying to find what page that’s on.
H: I don’t have one of those books in front of me but that’s okay.
Q: But I’ll tell you what page it’s on. Let’s see — page — I had all this ready for like last week when I called —
H: (small laugh)
Q: So now I have to look it up again. But — because like they had like the original Hebrew characters and there was one of them that I don’t think they actually translated. I’m trying to look for what page that’s on because, you know, I’m doing a book (“A”) about Son of God.
H: Oh. Uh-huh.
Q: And, anyway, it’s a long, long story. (“BUT”) I remember, like, the ad — seeing the ad that sort of was suggesting that he was alive now (“AN[D]” “YOU KNOW”) I guess. (“DD”) Do you know anything about that?
H: Well those of us who follow Jesus as our messiah or our savior believe that when he came to Earth as a human that was for a duration of time and for a purpose to bring the message of salvation to anyone who was willing to receive it. And that he returned to heaven and lives there not in a bodily — you know, not in a human form but in spirit.
Q: Right. Do you think — in terms of the Bible do you think much of it is metaphor? (“OR”) Or how do you feel about that? There’s an interesting book by — (“A”) A Revolutionary Biography of Jesus by Crossan.
H: So it’s a C or a K?
Q: With a C.
H: Like Craussen?
Q: C — I think it was Crossan. (“BUT”) Basically, it talked — he did a lot of research. (“AN” “HE HAD”) He had found a lot of it was metaphor and allegory. And I’m not really sure at this point. I think probably (“LL”) there is some physical basis but most of it I think is metaphor and allegory to teach the aspect of redemption. But anyway —
H: Will if you read in the New Testament accounts (“YEAH”) — like if you were just to take one of —
Q: Yeah.
H: — the first four gospels and read through it. Like in Matthew? I believe that Jesus several times refers to people from the Old Testament speaking of them as though he knows them and that to me helps verify that people like Moses and Isaiah and Jonah were actual people who lived —
Q: Oh I believe that too.
H: But then you —
Q: Don’t get me wrong. I do believe that.
H: Okay.
Q: Yeah. No I just —
H: And then if you read further in the accounts in the four gospels of Jesus’s life, I believe that the events that they—the followers of Jesus like Matthew and John—wrote down actually happened. But then there are times when Jesus speaks in parables. For example —
Q: Exactly.
H: — when he’s trying to illustrate a point because a parable is really just basically a story with a point.
Q: Right.
H: So there are times that he does that.
Q: And what’s interesting about the organization Jews for Jesus is that these are Jewish people who believe in Jesus as being the Son of God.
H: That’s right. Are you also Jewish?
Q: Well I thought I was when I responded but — because I had met someone else (“WITH THE”) — because my mother was adopted and her maiden name was King. And I met someone else who was Jewish named King but it turns out she sort of gave herself the name. So now I don’t know. I do have a genealogist who’s working on it because I have had a lot of religious events. Like I’ve had burning bushes and things like this. I’m sort of channeling the Angel Mighael. I’m writing a Testament for mankind from the Angel Mighael. So it’s like I’m trying to figure — well I think I am ‘Son of Man’ actually.
H: I’m sorry — what did you just say?
Q: I know. Can you believe this? (“I’M”) I think I am actually ‘Son of Man.’
H: You mean related to Jesus? Is that what you’re saying?
Q: Right. I think like Jesus was a metaphor. I mean I think there was a man named Jesus but he wasn’t the Son of God — I mean he was the son of — we’re all each a god, I think. I think each one of us is a god but he was — see, I don’t know — this is what I’m trying to figure out in my research. Because basically it’s a long story. It has to do with — you know, I’ve worked at Paramount Pictures for many years in the publicity department as a staff writer. So I guess it was that mountain symbol that came in very handy for God. So basically I had these like burning bush(es) — I had two burning bushes because I know Moses had one or — I mean who knows if the Bible is correct or not? (“BUT”) And you know I’ve been going — doing a lot of research about Jonah. I heard a lecture this weekend and I can verify it’s very true that when you do have a religious experience there are no ifs, ands or buts. So, anyway, I’n trying — so that sign was very important to me . . . (momentary listening device malfunction/in terms of?) anything having to do with heraldic symbols and what-have-you because, of course, my mother’s name was King and —
H: Is that — how do you spell that?
Q: K — I — N — G.
H: Oh, okay. King.
Q: And my father’s name is Russell, which is like — I traced that back as being like the first race of ancestry. So I’m not quite really sure how it all fits in but —
H: Yeah. Well let me ask you Mark are you a person who prays to God?
Q: Constantly. It’s like He’s living with me.
H: Well one of the things that I think — maybe you’ve already done this but one of the things that I think is really good to do—when we have a lot of different thoughts and questions—is just to pray to God and to ask Him to show us the truth from the Bible —
Q: Well you know what He’s done for me, for example? In going out shopping for like just normal — (“LIKE FOR”) I needed something to keep my press kits in. I ended up getting the Ark of the Covenant. I didn’t know it at the time. But it fits the dimensions exactly. I’ve also gotten the Holy Grail, the Declaration of Independence —
H: (small laugh)
Q: I mean you can(‘t) — I can’t believe all the — like I got a Buddhist temple door that had once belonged to Buddha and I’m getting all these — (“AND”) and like “The Last Supper,” this old — I think it (“MI”) Michelangelo or something. But — so it’s like you know He’s definitely proving His existence through me and I’m just — I’m now trying to get people to help me with this assignment of proving that He exists. For example, one of the things I realized is there are a lot of people in my life with the name ‘son’ in it and there are a lot of like big stars, for example, (“WHO”) who share the name Michael as in the Archangel Mighael; and have the word ‘son’ in it. (“LIKE”) Michael Jackson, Magic Johnson —
H: Is that your phone?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: HOLLY APPARENTLY NOTICED UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS AND THESE CAN BE HEARD ON THE MICROCASSETTES. THERE IS NO WAY THAT THEY COULD BE CAUSED BY THE LISTENING DEVICE.)
Q: No.
H: Oh okay. I just hear a lot of clicking.
Q: Oh okay. Well that might be my tape recorder.
H: Oh. (“BUT”)
Q: Magic Johnson — well you can name all the — there are so many ‘sons’ that are (“YOU KNOW”) big and famous right now. So, anyway, (“IF YOU”) I don’t have — I can’t find that symbol.
H: Well you know what? If you find —
Q: If you could just give my name to some people over there and have them do some — and see and have — just tell them that I really think that I am the Son of Man. And see if they can —
H: Well Mark can I pray for you before we hang up?
Q: Sure, you can — yeah. I need your help. Trust me.
H: And one other thing —
Q: Pray for me to get an agent and a publisher.
H: (small laugh) Okay. One of the things that I was going to suggest to you is when you’re reading this book —
Q: Yeah, I’ve read it.
H: Okay — is that afterwards that you take one of the four gospels like either Matthew, Mark, Luke or John —
Q: Well my name is Mark so —
H: Okay take Mark and read it all the way through. And as you have questions write them down. (“NO” “AA”)
Q: Well I don’t really have — I take the book on a whole as a book of being faith. The one thing that really pisses me off about the Holy Bible is that it isn’t very funny. So, of course, my book is going to be very humorous because this isn’t something that I ever planned on. I mean I was thirty-nine years old (“BEF” “I WAS”) — thirty-nine years old before I realized that God was living with me. He basically made up this poltergeist chronology. (“I”) I thought I was going to buy (“TH”) the rights to a poltergeist story in Oklahoma and it turned out (“TH”) the Angel Mighael had planned the whole thing. So this is what my book is about.
H: Okay. (“BUT”)
Q: It’s like I’m trying to let people in the world know that I’m here just because I think that’s what the Son of Man should be trying to do. (“SO”)
H: Well let me ask you another —
Q: I mean I’ve contacted the Mormon church about the names project.
H: Oh yeah, they’re very good at having a lot of information.
Q: Yeah. Because I just think it’s so weird that like my mother’s name is King and Russell (Arms) is like major heraldic symbol with a big lion and I’m Leo the lion as like in the Sphinx was originally a lion before the pharaoh carved his face in it. I mean basically the Angel has let me know a lot of truths of mankind. He doesn’t talk to me. (“BUT”) When I do interviews with people He talks on my interviews and reveals secrets of nature.
H: Mark?
Q: Yeah?
H: Did you grow up in any particular church denomination? Did you ever —
Q: Well I would go to Sunday school once in a while. Like I would go to the Church of the Brethren and the Nazarene — just sort of non-denominational once in a while when my parents wanted to get me out of the house.
H: Have you — I don’t know exactly where you live but —
Q: I live in Echo Park right across from the Angelus Temple.
H: Oh yeah. I know somebody who goes to that particular church. But I was going to say there are a lot of —
Q: Well now I’ve been —
H: — movie industry people and writers and actors that go to a church in Studio City called In His Presence.
Q: Oh really?
H: Yeah. I have a couple friends —
Q: Well I go to the Philosophical Research Center.
H: Pardon?
Q: The Angel Mighael has sort of channeled through — (“YOU KNOW”) basically He — have you seen the movie “12 Monkeys”?
H: No I haven’t.
Q: Well this is sort of a very religious movie because it has to do with the subconscious mind — God channeling through subconscious minds. But basically I was led to go to this church called the Philosophical Research Society in — on Los Feliz.
H: Is that like Pasadena?
Q: No, it’s right here in L.A. (“II — IT’S”) You know — right in L.A. It’s near me actually. And like this next weekend they’re having something on reincarnation. (“I”) Actually I’m not — you know when I — this first start(ed) — happened and I had the burning bushes and everything I thought I was — “Oh my God, I’m the reincarnation of Jesus. (“BUT”) It turns out that I’m not. I did find an Egyptian medallion of the god (Amun-)Ra who was also named Bel-Marduk. So I think I’m actually the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk.
H: Well I was just going to suggest —
Q: Because some people say that (“I”) the Dead Sea Scrolls prove that there was no — (“YOU KN” “VER”) there’s very few little physical proof of Jesus’s existence. So some people think that the Jesus story, a lot of it, was based on Bel-Marduk, a myster(ium) — (“YOU KNOW”) a pre(-Christian) mysterium play about the life of Bel-Marduk.
H: Well I have to admit a lot of what you’re talking about is out of my league but —
Q: It’s out of my league. It’s out of everyone’s league.
H: But what I was going to tell you that if you’re ever interested in going somewhere to worship or to learn where there are a lot of people in the same industry as you, I —
Q: Well I’m not in it right (now) — anymore really. Now I’m writing my book full-time.
H: Well I was just going to recommend —
Q: But you know . . .
H: . . . interested at some point in time, you want to check it out. The church called In His Presence.
Q: Is that where you go?
H: No. No, that’s not where I go.
Q: Well why wouldn’t you recommend me the church where you go?
H: Well I would if I thought that was something (“CAUSE”) —
Q: The people you —
H: — you’d be interested in. And I just was — you know what? One of the things we do in Jews for Jesus because we’re not a church is we try to recommend churches that would be of interest to people. Like where they’re coming from? I just thought this would be something that you’d be interested in.
Q: Okay. And let me recommend a book for you by Mark Twain. It’s Letters From The Earth by Mark Twain.
H: Okay.
Q: Definitely channeled material from the God.
H: Alrighty.
Q: It’s like a lost holy book of the Bible. But, anyway, (“LIKE”) somebody told me when I called —
H: Mark.
Q: Yeah.
H: I’m sorry. I need to go. But —
Q: Okay, right. But I’m just saying that if you could ask, though, that other — the gentleman there who’s like an expert on Jewish handwriting — just what that symbol meant —
H: Well I need to know what page it was on.
Q: Yeah, okay, I’m looking right now. I’m trying — I’m turning through my book and . . .
H: . . . call back —
Q: Okay.
H: — you’re welcome to.
Q: Okay, I think I have — I did keep your number so I will.
H: Okay.
Q: Okay, great.
H: Alright.
Q: Thank you.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I WAS REFERRING TO HEBREW CHARACTERS—INDICATING SOME FORM OF SIGN—THAT WERE INCLUDED IN THE ARTICLE “THE PROMISED CHILD,” BY EFRAIM GOLDSTEIN, ON PAGE 28 OF THE JEWS FOR JESUS 1995 PUBLICATION A MESSIANIC LOOK AT CHRISTMAS AND HANUKKAH. THE FOLLOWING WAS RECORDED AT THE SCOTTISH-THEMED TAM O’SHANTER INN RESTAURANT IN THE LOS FELIZ AREA. AS USUAL IN TRANSCRIBING, I INCLUDE ONLY SPIRIT MESSAGES THAT I CAN HEAR CLEARLY AND IN THIS CASE DIFFERENTIATE FROM THE AMBIENT ROOM CONVERSATION.)
B: So Mark —
Q: I’m sorry I’m late. Just as I was about to leave, I got a call from Jews for Jesus.
U: Mark okay fine — no.
Q: No, I know. I’m just telling you.
U: I don’t want —
( . . . )
Q: So I just explained to James and Michael why I was late. I’m actually asking these people for help even though I know no one will ever believe me. So it’s like (“AT LEAST”) at least I don’t have to feel like I’m not being forthright about this. (“BLIP”) So, anyway, I’m now writing a tell-all book about Hollywood (“YES”) because I think this is going to be very good karma for the industry (“BEAU” or “BOW” “GREAT”) because every movie made is a miracle (“I HOPE”) and every miracle made is a movie. So Michael’s going to tell me — we’re going to talk about famous stories and gossip without naming names and Michael’s got something very interesting to tell me. Some rumors he heard from some people recently.
B: There’s a certain CEO at a major studio who’s married (“CAL”) and thrives on his image as being a family man. This same said being rents cars and tours —
U: Back alleys.
B: — back alleys behind Drake’s looking for fresh young boys.
Q: In leather.
U: In the days when they could do that.
B: Also, he was caught by his own — one of his assistants at a male porno theatre jerking another dude off next to him in the stall.
Q: You heard that too?
B: Yes. Tom. Remember?
Q: Who?
B: A Tom. His last name will not be known.
Q: Is that the one who was working with you at the theatre? (“MIGHAEL or MICHAEL LOVES YOU”)
B: No no. (“NO” “THIS WAS”) He used to work for the same executive at (“FINE”) — at a certain ‘P’ studio.
Q: Okay.
U: (laughs)
Q: I wonder which one that is.
B: Anyway —
Q: There’s only one. (“MICHAEL” “FUN”)
B: I went to a dinner party once and everybody at the dinner party had a story about this same said person. About his notorious goings-on in gay bars. He would come up to people and introduce himself as a traveling salesman named Eric. And everybody knew who he was and they would play along just to see the pretentiousness go on and on. And everybody had bizarre stories about him.
U: Does his kids know about this?
B: God only knows. (“NO AND”)
Q: Didn’t you say that Garrison had a run-in with him?
B: Oh yeah. Garrison, who was an accountant at a movie (studio), was once followed home by him. And this executive came on to him and wanted to go up to his room and do him but it was not to be. (waitress says something)
U: Oh thank you.
Q: Keep going.
U: That’s all.
( . . . )
Q: But what about Jay? Didn’t Jay have an almost-run-in too? No? You said he had.
B: I don’t remember.
Q: Jay.
B: Which one?
Q: The studio executive. Did you — you had a run-in.
B: Jay?
Q: Jay Marc.
B: I don’t remember.
Q: Oh my God — I just said his last name. You were telling me that Jay had had a run-in with him. (“NO”) Didn’t he tell you that? (“I”)
U: I thought so.
Q: Exactly.
U: I don’t remember the specifics.
Q: James just said — James is my witness. Two against one. (“YES”)
U: No . . .
Q: So (or “SO”) —
B: I don’t remember. (“NO”)
Q: I’m just saying in terms of the studio executive — of course you know my Angel is named Mighael. Might the studio executive have something in common with my Angel, James?
U: They both got their wings clipped.
Q: Well I think that’s a good ending for my tape.
B: They both have a perverse mind.
Q: Well I can vouch for that. Trust me on this one. (“BUT”) Do you think Mighael likes kinky gay sex? I mean you saw (“THE”) that Hun comic. (“NO”)
B: Yes.
Q: We’re just running — we’re just going to go until we run out of tape because it’s almost winding down. (“NO PERHAPS” “COME ON” “RED”)
U: It might be telling you something right there.
Q: What other scandals do you know? Recently? (“PUT THE MATTER”)
U: I know of one where two studio execs at a male — (“HO”) gay male party — there were naked waiters — half-naked waiters serving hors d’oeuvres and as I (“WAS”) went — pushed in this crowded party I noticed there was a little activity happening in a back room. In a side room. And I looked closer. I saw a lot of Warner Bros. executives — some very big people gathered around one of these bronzed and sweating youths who was lying horizontal on the thing naked except for a G-string. And there was this glorious line of coke going from the tip of his nostril to the tip of his pee-pee. And there was a few very, very wealthy and very well-known executives who were taking turns rolling up a hundred dollar bill and sniffing a few inches of coke. And the lucky one got the last bit which went right down to the pee-pee. (“BUT UM”)
Q: Now but these — these people are out though, right? A lot of executives aren’t out in Hollywood.
U: Some of those were. But not — not at that point . . . (“MEAN LIKE”)
Q: For example, like who are some of the studio executives who everyone knows are gay and it’s no big deal? I think that these people are commendable people.
U: David Geffen.
Q: David Geffen —
U: Who was at that party.
Q: — Scott Rudin —
B: Chris Pula.
Q: Where’s Chris Pula now?
B: New Line — head of marketing.
Q: Oh right. Anyone else? (“YOU CAN THINK OF”)
B: Scott Rudin.
Q: I guess Blaise Noto at Paramount. He’s open about his sexuality.
B: Scott Rudin.
Q: Right. We’ve said his name a few times. Let’s see — who else? (“ROY BOB”)
Who else?
B: Mark Russell.
U: Amy Schifler.
Q: Who?
U: Claudia Eller’s lover.
Q: Oh okay. (“OH RIGHT”)
B: Leslie Belzberg.
Q: Belzberg? Oh my God. There’s a definite —
B: Leslie Belzberg, remember? John Landis’s associate.
Q: Let’s see — who else? I keep remembering people too, Michael, with the name ‘son’ in them. Like when I was working at Ruth Webb — Kathryn Grayson —
B: What about Goodson?
Q: Who?
B: Mark Goodson. Who did “Jeopardy.”
U: Mark Goodson — Goodson Todman (Productions).
Q: Exactly — no — and then there’s also a lot of people who have ‘man’ in it.
U: Goodson Todman — son man. Son of Man.
Q: Listen — Dody Goodman.
U: Life is a gameshow.
Q: Man — Dody Goodman. Kathryn Grayson.
U: But that’s a typical English . . .
Q: Joan’s husband Rodger Gibson.
B: Sonny Skies. Sonny Skies.
Q: Sonny Bono.
U: (chuckling) Mark is looking and (“NO”) raising his eyes
Q: I mean it’s true. It’s true. So come on, James; Michael, come on — what are some other executives that are out or some other good scandals? Real quick. I still have a little bit of tape left.
U: Val Kilmer.
Q: Is he gay?
B: Who?
Q: Val Kilmer?
U: I have it on very good authority from a friend — an acquaintance who ran a masseur agency — that three times he was called over to Val’s place to do some — let’s just say deep tissue work.
Q: Did you hear that rumor that he was doing it with Robin during the making of “Batman”?
U: I’m not surprised.
Q: Did you hear that Michael? About Batman and Robin doing it?
B: Yes, of course.
Q: Where did you hear it from?
B: Joel. Oops. I mean a certain director around town.
Q: Are you kidding?
U: (laughs) Stop — “oh Joel — oops. I mean —” (laughs) That was good, Arf.
Q: Michael, we worked with —
U: That’s the best one yet. It was so fake.
Q: Michael — we worked with him on “Cousins.”
U: Arf has a huge smile on his face . . .
B: Oh please.
Q: Who else can we talk about tonight? Real quick. There’s a little bit of tape left. Come on, Michael. You know all the dirt.
B: There’s so much dirt, I can’t see straight.
Q: Come on. (“WELL”)
B: Why? What do you want to know?
U: Ahh.
Q: Hurry.
B: Richard Gere . . .
U: Dilly-Poo.
Q: What?
U: Barry Diller.
Q: Richard Gere went to the Moscow Film Festival —
U: And every morning he was found with his lover at 7:30 working out in the gym and let’s just say they weren’t just sweating over the isometric machines.
Q: Which gym was this?
U: In the hotel in Moscow.
Q: Oh really?
U: Yes. Inna saw them.
Q: But he’s out, though.
U: No, he’s not.
Q: Barry Diller?
U: No, Richard Gere. (“OH”)
Q: I thought you said Barry Diller.
U: No, that was before. Barry Diller was known to be — he put the glory holes in Paramount’s bathrooms. You know that.
Q: Right. And the sun decks. (“DID’N”) Wasn’t that roof a cruisy area, Michael? (“KIND”) Weren’t you ever approached by someone? Oh wait — “The Hunt For Red October.” The star who did it in the men’s gym?
B: Alec Baldwin.
Q: Michael, no — you’re not naming names. (“YOU’RE”) We’re not naming names.
B: A certain man who’s married to an actress who was in “9 Weeks.”
U: (laughs) A little more subtle, please.
Q: Right. I’m trying to think.
U: Alright, Mark, quit while you’re ahead. (“BUT”)
Q: You know when you think of all the people with the name ‘man’ or ‘son’ in them — (“LIKE”) Nicole Kidman — I mean it just makes you nuts. (“THERE ARE SO MANY”)
B: What?
U: Because ‘man’ is a typical ending for a name . . .
Q: Yes but there seems to be more of them —
U: There is.
Q: — in Hollywood.
U: No, there are not. You go to England, you find hundreds of them.
B: Did you hear about the new movie (“DANCE”) Fox is making called “Son of Man”?
Q: No. Is that true? You’re lying.
B: Wouldn’t that be funny if there was.
Q: That’s my movie.
B: “Son of Man.”
Q: That’s my movie and it’s a Paramount production. I hope. If Sherry Lansing —
U: If Sherry Lansing has anything to do with it, it won’t.
Q: If Sherry Lansing gets her — gets off her back long enough and stops servicing those producers and reads my script, maybe I’ll have a film deal there.
U: Cut.
Q: No.
B: Back to back . . .
Q: No — (“YOU DON’T”) you don’t — you have to remember, James. I never cut my tapes because you remember what happened (“WHEN”) when I try to edit my tapes, Mighael gets very mad. (“HOR MOVIE” or “WHORE MOVIE”) And He can really be a bitch. Like in the Laurie Anderson song? And so can I. That’s why I’m doing this book. And I can’t wait to interview Fiona.
U: Stick around til Thursday night. I got a date with Fi-fi.
Q: Really?
U: Yeah. In the evening. I’m going to take her to a movie too.
Q: Oh okay, well if you want —
B: Guess what I’m seeing Thursday night?
U: What?
B: “The Grass Harp.” Charley Matthau’s film. AFI.
U: Oh really?
Q: I remember meeting him when he was doing that science fiction film at Cannon.
I met him. It’s like I’ve met everyone at some point or other. It’s so weird.
B: Have you ever met yourself?
Q: What do you mean?
U: Have you met yourself?
Q: I did on my medallion. That little picture of me on the medallion.
U: No, have you spiritually met yourself?
Q: Yes. Mighael is my Soulmate. The Angel Mighael is my Soulmate.
B: (singing) “I’ve never been to me —” What was that song? “I’ve been to — I’ve never been to me.” Remember that song? “I’ve Never Been To Me.”
U: No.
B: That song?
Q: Who sung it?
B: I don’t know. Some maudlin singer.
U: (singing) “I love me. I love me. I’m wild about myself. I love me. I love me. My picture’s on my shelf. I’ll take me to the movie show. Well I’ve met myself.”
Q: Who wrote this song or who sung this song?
U: My mommy used to sing it to me. (“AND”)
Q: She really knew who she was singing to. (“OH” “BECAUSE”)
U: When I was looking in the mirror being vain as a child she would sing that to me.
Q: Positively hedonistic.
B: What about “You’re So Vain”?
Q: I’ve already talked about that.
U: “I’m bleeding,” he said vainly.
B: (singing) “I bet you think this song is about Mighael.”
Q: No about me.
U: Okay, that’s it. Over — done — finish.
Q: No, it’s still got a little bit to go.
U: Phallic, thrusting umbrella looming from that lady’s purse.
Q: James, you have only one thing on your mind.
U: Pointed very cleverly at the man next to her. I think that woman is actually a gay man.
B: . . . just moved.
Q: What moved?
B: This dark figure of —
U: You’re right it did.
B: — moved. See, the suck in of bagpipes?
U: Oh my God. I’ll bet that’s our spirit — the leprechaun. (“OUT”)
B: It really comes alive at night when the lights are off . . .
U: One of those things — it does look like one of those things from “Night Gallery.”
Q: James, Michael — look at the lion on the wall. (“HELP ME”) There’s a lion on the wall as we speak. And there’s a crown on the milk jar.
B: There’s a bell.
Q: Where’s the bell? Do you see a bell?
U: Let me just see.
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