INTERVIEW — TAPE #57, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
D: Diana Widom, friend
R: radio commentator
Q: So I was just telling Diana last night I had sort of a strange dream but I forgot it right away. The only thing I can remember is that I was seeing very quick images of alien faces and crop circle formations. It was just very, very quick. And plus (“I’D”) I’d found out recently that one of my friends (“HAS A”) had “a disability” that I didn’t know had a disability so I had a (“DR[EAM]”) dream about interacting with her and trying to figure out what her disability is. (“I DON’T THINK SHE”) Because I don’t think she has a disability but it’s interesting that (“SHE HAS A PERC”) her perception is that she has a disability in our crazy society. So I was just asking Diana if she had any famous scandals or (“KNEW ANY”) strange experiences in her background. And what she said was very interesting — about remembering.
D: I think Mark asked me if I have had any psychic communication through dreams or living or whatever. I am firmly of the belief that I have psychic information channeling through me all the time. Every psychic reading I’ve ever had (“HAS”) hit on the point you must write things down and I never have. My mother died in August — (“OH I”) Oh I know a psychic incident (“OKAY”) that happened to me very recently. (“I”) In my study in my house, there are several cupboards and in these cupboards I have folders that have various names on them. I was trying to file some papers away in the appropriate folder and it fell out of my hands. Everything kept falling out of my hands (“SSS”) — so weird. And I started crying and I said, “Daddy,” who’s dead — my father, who I adored. He’s been dead for nine years. I said, “Daddy, I can’t do this. You have to help me. Are you here? Are you here? Show me a sign.” And the next thing I knew was that a letter in Daddy’s handwriting flipped out of some folder I was looking at and landed at my feet. And in it it was a letter that he had written to me giving me some very good advice on various subjects. And it ended with, “I love you. I love you. I love you. Daddy.” — which was so weird. I mean that is a weird psychic experience —
Q: Definitely.
D: — that has happened to me — which tells me that his entity is around somewhere (“TRAP”) probably listening to us right now.
Q: Oh, I’m sure. We’ll probably hear him on the tape. (“BOO”)
D: Probably hear him on the tape. Are you there?! “To laugh!” (“SPEAK UP”) Anyway, that was one psychic experience that I had. (“WITH ME”)
Q: That was Diana, by the way.
D: Yes, that was me.
Q: For transcribing later on.
D: Yes, that was me. In the muted — (“[V]O[I]CE”) altered voice. So that is a recent psychic incident (“THE SAD”) I absolutely had. My sister, Charlotte, has actually seen a physical reincarnation of Daddy, which I will describe. She was on holiday in Hawaii and she was sitting down by the edge of the sea. And the beautiful white harbor — kind of like a harbor cove kind of thing. I don’t know which island it was on. I think Kauai but it might not have been. He saw a beautiful white sailboat that came towards her and pulled up at the dock. And Daddy got off. She actually saw him — come over to her and (he) kissed her. And I haven’t ever actually seen my mother or my father. (“BUT”) I’ve certainly heard them about the place. I mean they are around. I mean this letter sliding out is a perfect example. (“YOU KNOW”) I know in the worst parts of my illness when I’m in extreme discomfort and (“NO”) I get very angry with myself — (“BECAUSE”) basically, I’ve lost the use or the feeling in both hands. (“UM”) I get very angry when I drop something or spill something or fall down, (“NO”) which happens to me all the time. Um, and then I have to stop and take a deep breath and try and calm myself down and think, “This is happening to you for a reason. What’s the reason?” And I think part of the reason (“IF”) apart from the fact this life strongly relates to a past life from the time of Christ that a psychic told me about. I think part of the reason that I have this disease is to learn patience. I never had any patience. In fact, one of my early boyfriends in New York wrote me a sign that said “livid forever” because I was so — I’m so “livid about this” — I’m so “livid about that.”
Q: Who was your first husband, by the way?
D: Arnold Shulman. He’s a screenwriter and producer — successful, I think.
Q: “Tucker.”
D: He wrote “Tucker.” He also wrote “And The Band Played On” for HBO. (“LIE” “HE”) He’s a very lovely man. He’s twenty years older than I am. And I don’t regret my marriage to him at all. We didn’t have a horrible divorce. It was fine. Everything is fine and now I love him dearly and (“WE SEE”) he lives — (“IN SAN”)
Q: Deborah Rosen used to be married to a journalist for the Los Angeles Times.
D: Yeah. She did.
Q: What’s his name again? (“I REMEMBER”)
D: Patrick something. She was married but obviously he wasn’t going to get her anywhere where she wanted to go so — even though — anyway, I shouldn’t say — I shouldn’t comment on other people’s relationships because I don’t know anything about theirs.
Q: People love that kind of thing, though.
D: Yeah, I know.
Q: Like Julia Phillips’s book — did you ever read You’ll Never Eat Lunch in This Town Again?
D: I did. (“LOVED IT”)
Q: And The Andy Warhol Diaries? (“I LOVED IT”)
D: Right.
Q: Do you know any of the great gossip — (“YOU DON’T HAVE TO”) you don’t have to name names or anything.
D: The great gossip. Let me think if I know any great gossip. Actually, I do know some great gossip. When I was working in the publicity department for Warner Bros. in the early ’70s or late ’60s, I did something that I shouldn’t have done. I wasn’t 100% truthful about something and the director of the film — I was led up the garden path by a journalist from Time who shall be nameless. And so I told him my opinion of this director’s film.
Q: (laughs)
D: The next thing I know the director’s on the phone saying, “I’m going to come up there and I’m going to throw you out of the window.” And this was, like, on the 22nd floor of a building in New York. So, you know, I’ve learned that you can’t always speak honestly to people. You think you can trust people. You can’t. I think it’s better — (“I MEAN”) this was a major director and I gave my honest opinion to this journalist from Time as to what I thought of the director’s film. Well, it so happened that the journalist from Time and the director — (“WERE”) very great personal friends. He told the director and so the director called me up. (“AND SAID”) And so I realized the traps for the unwary. And another time, working with Time and Newsweek — I was the magazine contact for Warner Bros. in New York again around the same period of time — the late ’60s, early ’70s. I was trying to maneuver different publicity in Time and Newsweek and so I told a lie to one of them — Newsweek, I guess — (“THAT”) this was on the Stanley Kubrick film “A Clockwork Orange”: I didn’t have the art because of some things in the lab or something when, in fact, it was really over at Time magazine. Then, I’ll never forget this. It stuck with me always. The reporter from Newsweek called me up and said, “God damn — We need a tape recorder to talk to you” —
Q: Ohh.
D: — which was just — I’ve never forgotten her saying that to me. So it was so awful and, again, I was trying to be clever but not wicked. I wasn’t trying to be wicked but, you know, these things are taken so seriously by journalists in Hollywood. Especially from these two magazines — Time and Newsweek, which have enmity to the death. They have to be the first out with something.
Q: They’re so powerful too.
D: And they’re so powerful. They can make or break a film — a review can make or break a film, a spread can make or break a film. And that was [the] time when I got caught out in an actual lie, which I was not in the habit of doing but I was just up against it in this case and I wanted to do the best I could for the film. And I was doing the best I could — I thought. And I was working for Warner Bros. — not for Time or Newsweek so I was doing the thing Warner Bros. would want me to do for Stanley Kubrick but not the thing that Newsweek would want me to do (“AS”) opposed to Time. (“SO”)
Q: What do you think, too, by the way, (“I MEAN”) because we’ve both worked “with” Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson on “Dead Again.”
D: Yes. Right.
Q: And you’re probably friends with them.
D: Not really because I think they’re the kind of people that — well, to start with, as you know, Emma Thompson is divorcing Kenneth Branagh.
Q: Right. (“YEAH” “SO”)
D: Or has divorced him.
Q: A big surprise.
D: Which was a big surprise — (“FOR”) reasons that he —
Q: She won’t talk about that.
D: No. (“BUT”) I have heard rumors that it’s because Ken’s gay — or not. I don’t know. (“MAYBE”)
Q: We all hear those rumors constantly —
D: Yes.
Q: — about everyone just about.
D: That’s the first rumor you’ve heard. “Oh, well, he or she is gay or a lesbian. I mean that’s it.” That’s a rumor. Or “They’re on drugs” — which —
Q: Right.
D: — too often —
Q: It’s true. (“IT’S TRUE”)
D: — it’s true. So that’s sad but the business — (“THAT MARK”)
Q: Who cares? (“WELL”)
D: But the thing is I do believe that this business — this movie business was created as a framework to test out certain people and see if they could pass their own personal test.
Q: Right.
D: That they had set for themselves on the other side —
Q: Exactly.
D: — where you were Don Simpson or Jodie Foster and Emma Thompson or whatever. Kenneth Branagh — whatever. (“YES”) So they’re working things out (“EVERYONE”) through the movie business. (“IT” “THROUGH”)
Q: If everyone in Hollywood was honest and open about their sexual preference, no one would have to worry.
D: Well, I think we’re moving closer to that. I honestly do. I really don’t think it matters so much anymore. (“BUT”)
Q: My angel, Mighael, who is your angel too apparently, said He was gay.
D: Right. Well, it does — (“ALL”) because ‘gay’ —
Q: And He’s like a Major Angel.
D: Well, ‘gay’ (“YOU KNOW”) – then stop and think, “Well, what does gay mean? Gay means you prefer to have sex with your own sex. (“BUT”) It’s an all-encompassing thing. I mean what’s ‘gay’ to you has another aspect to me.
Q: Well, He let me know what ‘gay’ meant. (“MO[THER]”) In His own inimitable way. (“GRAY” “UH-HUH”)
D: What it is. I have — (“SOME OF MY BE[ST]” “NO”) a lot of my best friends happen to be gay. (“AS”) I just love that sensibility and I feel very at home with that sensibility. I mean maybe I’m latently gay myself. I don’t think so. I haven’t had any indication that I am but, anyway, (“WHATEV”) for whatever reason all the people (“NO”) that I really love a lot turn out to be either gay or lesbian. And (“AA”) I think we’re moving closer to a period in Hollywood now where it can be accepted. It’s alright to come out. And I think the public figures who have been in the news —
Q: Everybody knows that these people are gay.
D: Gay. (“JUST DON’T”)
Q: They just don’t — the unwritten law. Everyone knows (“WHO”) ‘so and so is really gay’ but —
D: But now that we’ve come past the ’30s and Hedda and Louise, gossiping and all that kind of thing, why not? I mean it’s fine to say you’re whoever you are.
Q: Whatever works.
D: Whatever works. I mean do what feels right for you.
Q: But give back, too, to society.
D: Yes. (“GIVE US”) Give something back. If you do what’s right for you, you’re going to feel much more comfortable with yourself and about yourself. And, inevitably, you’ll be in a position where you are giving back to society, I think. (“IF”) If Mark is asking the question, “Who’s gay and who isn’t?” We’ve both come to the conclusion who cares.
Q: Right. (“AND YOU KNOW I’M”)
D: And I am saying that I think the time is coming or has come in Hollywood when you can say that you are without fear or favor.
Q: You also worked with O. J. Simpson. What was your impression of Mr. Simpson?
D: I didn’t work that closely with him. I did work with him on “The Naked Gun” films. (“BUT”) The O. J. that I know was just a sweet, dear person. (“NO”) No hang-ups of any kind. I might be the only person in Los Angeles that you can talk to about the O. J. Simpson trial and get a clear perspective because I didn’t listen to one word that was said about it. And I did not become an O. J. junkie and turn the television on as so many did.
Q: Well, I can’t (“TURN MY”) — I couldn’t watch.
D: Well, you couldn’t watch it because you can’t watch television. (“SO LE[T]” “BUT”)
Q: He turns it off real quick.
D: Can you read newspapers?
Q: Yes, I can.
D: So you can read about what this juror ‘A’ said and what juror —
Q: I watched a little bit of it when it first started. (“WHY”)
D: Well, I didn’t watch any of it and I don’t really know if he killed or he didn’t kill her. At this date she’s dead. So to a certain extent — (“EXCEPT”)
Q: What about (“FAM”) demonic possession? Have you considered that? (“NO”)
D: No. (“IT’S NOT THAT”) I do believe in demonic possession but somehow he doesn’t make it. He doesn’t cut it. Doesn’t seem to me —
Q: But drugs can alter someone’s consciousness — but it’s like, symbolically, demonic possession.
D: Yes. I suppose so. If you look at it from that point of view — from the “drug” point of view. I suppose you could say that he was demonically possessed.
Q: Maybe it was like a lesson for mankind, I think. This whole thing. Some kind of lesson for mankind. Remember the angel pins prominent in the newspapers?
D: Yes. Right. I do remember. (“IT WAS”)
Q: Very — (“THERE WAS”) definite symbols that something more was going on than meets the eye here.
D: Well, I think there was but (“I WENT”) I don’t know what it was. And I probably never will know what it is. (“WELL MY”)
Q: Another theme of my books is not to be judgmental. So only God can judge O. J.
D: Right. Well, I don’t judge him. If he killed her, (“YOU KNOW”) I don’t judge him either. You know. I mean let he who is without sin cast the first stone I mean is basically what it is. So none —
Q: Thank you. Even at Deborah Rosen.
D: Even at Deborah Rosen. So, anyway, I don’t think there’s anybody that we know, dear, (“WHO WAS”) able to cast the first stone. Basically, I just blank it out of my consciousness. It happened over there. In fact, it was my mother’s birthday and we were driving out along the 10 freeway to Santa Monica. We saw all these helicopters circling and circling. We didn’t realize they were news helicopters. That was the evening that they found out (“THEY FOUND”) and even then I just didn’t want to know. I just turned — click — as soon as anything about — I wouldn’t read it in the newspaper. I wouldn’t watch it on television. I wouldn’t get into endless discussions about did he/didn’t he. Because he is working out some of his own karma — (“IN”) if he did it or he didn’t do it. And so who am I to get between him and his karma?
Q: By the way, I notice you have some Michelangelo works on your wall.
D: Right. I don’t know why. I just like them. (“SO I” “BOUGHT THEM”)
Q: Did you get that? Michael — angel — o? (“OH M[Y]”)
D: Oh my God. So I do.
Q: And who is that — is that the playwright?
D: Yes. George Bernard Shaw. (“YEAH”) It’s an actual (“LOVE”) letter. A fan wrote to him and sent him a play. And it’s really hysterical. I have to read it.
Q: Well, I’m the all-time “Pygmalion” story.
D: What’s the all-time “Pygmalion” story?
Q: My story is like the all-time “Pygmalion” story.
D: In what respect? I don’t get that.
Q: Well, Him grooming me to become his P.R. person.
D: “The rain in Spain” — etc.
Q: Exactly. (“THIS” “NOW”) Except I haven’t (“I’M”) been to a linguist. (“TEACHER”)
D: I’m wobbling over to this George Bernard Shaw letter, which was written to a young playwright. And it says: “The dialogue and character are not half bad but you had better read ‘Hamlet.’ There, the dialogue and character are pretty good but Shakespeare doesn’t kill them all until the end of the last act. If he had killed them at the end of the first ten minutes, the public would have demanded its money back.” And then he’s giving advice to this young playwright: “You might, then, study Hindel Wakes”—who was a writer—”to find out how to get plenty of work out of Lancashire factory people”—that’s what Hindel Wakes wrote about—”without ridiculously slaughtering them all instead of letting them go quietly home to bed. Unless you cannot only invent characters but give them plenty to do for at least two hours, you are (“MORE”) no use to the theatre. Try, if you can, make three acts of this and cut out the corpses.” And it’s signed G. B. S.
Q: That’s funny.
D: So that’s really funny. I love that. (“THAT’S LIKE”)
Q: Oh, that’s probably worth a lot of money. (“M”) You must have a lot of insurance.
D: Well, we do.
Q: These are other beautiful things.
D: But these are just little things. (“THIS”)
Q: They remind you of England.
D: This is my parents’. I wanted it. It was one of the only things I wanted.
Q: Did you get my Christmas card, by the way?
D: I did. Thank you. I didn’t send this year because I can’t write.
Q: No. Oh I know. (“NO”) But I’m glad you got it. (“SO”)
D: I got it. (“YES”) I just love it. (kisses) That is one of my mother’s paintings . . . she gave me for my birthday.
Q: Oh she did this herself?
D: No, she didn’t do it herself. (“OKAY”) This is a painting — (“SHE”)
Q: One that she owned. I see.
D: It’s not valuable or anything but I love Victorian weddings in a chapel.
Q: Well, you never know. (“YOU NEVER KNOW”) I bought a beautiful painting recently not for very much money but it had a bell in it. And I have a feeling it’s (“IT’S BY”) by one of the great masters. I also have the Ark of the Covenant, it turns out. (“WATCH ME”) The original Ark of the Covenant.
D: How can you have that?
Q: I bought it at an antique store. I didn’t know what it was at the time. I wanted something to keep my press kits in. And it just turns out that it fits the exact dimensions of the Ark of the Covenant.
D: Gosh.
Q: No, I know. (“I’M GOING TO GIVE”) I’m going to give the money to charity if anyone ever believes me.
D: Wow. (“I ALSO HA[VE]”)
Q: I also have — (“THE”) you’re not going to believe it either. I also have the Holy Grail. I know.
D: Get in touch with Steven Spielberg. (“WHEN YOU HA[D]” “REALLY” “WELL”) If anyone has money to spend — (“BUT SEE”)
Q: But, again, God is proving His existence. This is how He’s doing it. (“GO BUY”) He’s having me go out and buy these antiques for cheap —
D: Right. (“WHICH ARE THE ACTUAL”)
Q: — that are turning out to be the actual —
D: So what does the Holy Grail look like? Is it just a simple clay cup or is it a — (“WELL I”)
Q: I’m having a photo made of it so maybe we’ll get together again once (“YOU WILL”) I get my photos back.
D: Before you leave, I want to make a lunch date with you and also show you the photographs from Versailles.
Q: Okay, great. (“SO MY”) My book — (“I”) it just mortifies me when I talk because I want to say something that’s close to what God would want to say if He was speaking to people and I don’t know what that is because He’s got very different moods. It’s like we all have conflicting emotions. We all feel different things at different times. Love. Hate. Happiness. Anger. (“SO”) These all are true so — (“I’M TRY” “HOPE”) I just hope I’m trying to be a good listener and to raise certain points and pretty much state the things I know to be the most truthful. So I guess where I get into trouble is when you get into the darker side of life in terms of illness, death and people losing their loved ones. (“SO IT’S LIKE”) For some reason, people blame those on God. (“BUT THEY FORGET”) They forget to thank Him for the good things they have in life. (“MY”)
D: I’ll never blame anything on God because I don’t think God’s got the remotest thing to do with people dying. I mean when it’s your time and you decide you don’t want to be (“ANYMORE”) here anymore, you go. So I wouldn’t even think of involving God in that decision as far as death is concerned.
Q: That’s interesting. (“I”)
D: I don’t think He says, ‘Come in, number forty-seven. Your time is up.’ (“I MEAN I”) I think the entity make his own decision when it’s going to go. (“BUT”) With my own parents, (“THEY ON”) one died at home and one died at a very nice hospital. Santa Monica Hospital. And my father, who died at home — I know the day that he died, I remember leaning over him —(“HE WAS”) sort of slipped into a coma at that point — and saying to him, “I’ll look after Mummy. I’ll look after Charlotte. Don’t worry. It’s okay. You can go now if you want to.” And that very night he died. (“I’M”) I said a similar thing to my mother and she died at three o’clock in the morning afterwards. (“I MEAN”) It’s as if you’re waiting. You’re just holding on and you’re just waiting for some kind of permission. (“I THINK”)
Q: I think a lot of people spend most of their life finding ways to be in denial of death by either working too hard or taking drugs or drinking alcohol or having sex — (“JUST”) something to take their minds off this big question of God and their own mortality. (“SO”) It’s an interesting thing to think about. I keep telling my brother not to work so late.
D: What’s Michael doing now?
Q: Well, he’s working at Rogers & Cowan with Chris La Monte.
D: Oh, I didn’t know that. (“I”)
Q: In fact, I interviewed her (“FOR MY”) for my book too. What do you think of Chris La Monte?
D: I don’t know Chris La Monte so I can’t give you any opinion. (“SHE’S”)
Q: She’s very psychic, it turns out. So she thinks the final battle of good and evil is going to take place on the silver screen, which is an interesting concept. But she loves movies so this would be her symbolic interpretation. I don’t really know what the (“SSS”) final battle between good and evil — what dimensions it will take. If it will be done on a symbolic level or if it takes place in each person every day. Probably, I guess that’s up to God (“TO DE”) to decide but we are approaching the end of the millennium.
D: And all the signs are here for (“YOU KNOW”) apocalypse. I mean fires, floods, famines. You know. I mean I’m just —
Q: And now me. (“I’M SICK”) I’m Son of Man. Do you know anything about Son of Man? Well, it’s like another one of the prophecies fulfilled. I didn’t know I was Son of Man until (“AFTER”) coming back from Oklahoma. So I am fulfilling those prophecies. For a little while, I thought I was Mabus but one of the entities said, “NO” — I’m not. So that’s good because he was like ‘the third Antichrist.’
D: Oh dear. (“SO” “THANK”)
Q: Thank goodness I’m not Mabus even though I really did think I was because that was an anagram in my name. (“SO THAT’S”) This is what my second book is about, I guess. If you can, since my book is so important and you know me so well and I’m very nice, maybe you’ll call Sherry Lansing. Just tell her (that).
D: I don’t think it means anything. I would.
Q: I know.
D: I’d do it in a flash but I just think I’m so far removed.
Q: She probably wouldn’t return your call.
D: Well, she probably would because I think she does return all calls but the thing is I feel so far removed from that world.
Q: I’m just trying to get my message out and —
D: I know.
Q: The manuscript is with a vice president there at Paramount.
D: See what happens. (“TEACH ME”) Keep me posted.
Q: Okay, I will. (“I WILL BE”)
D: I feel very funny about calling her.
Q: Okay. (“YOU KNOW” “I MEAN”)
D: I’ve gone past that. Stay here just a second. What did I do with my cane? Did I bring it in here? No.
( . . . )
Q: So Mighael just took Diana’s cane but then gave it back. He’s always doing things like this. What do you think of that, Diana?
D: Well, I think it’s pretty extraordinary because I know that it wasn’t there a second ago and then Mark said, “Look in your usual corner and you’ll find that it’s there.”
Q: So I’m so used to Him now — His ways. (“IS NOT”)
D: In there where —
( . . . )
Q: Diana is showing me her beautiful photographs taken at Versailles. (“WHERE”) I’ve been there too. She’s wearing her beautiful dress. And also, I must say, she’s always had a skin pigmentation problem. I’ve always had sort of bad skin. (“BUT I DON’T”) It doesn’t really bother me.
D: You’ve got beautiful skin now.
Q: Well, my face — yeah.
D: Yeah, you have. (“BUT”)
Q: But see you’re not self-conscious of it at all, which is great. What is this? Is this what Michael Jackson has? Discoloration?
D: Yes. Well, so he says but I can’t believe that he has vitiligo all over his body. I mean if you look —
Q: It’s so even on him.
D: Of course it is. And that’s not the way it works.
Q: It’s not what it is. (“YEAH”)
D: I mean if you look on my hand — and see that it’s not even. But I don’t know what he’s done to himself. He’s done something.
Q: There’s a drug you can take that lightens your skin.
D: Is there?
Q: Yeah. I saw that in “Tales From The City.” Did you see that?
D: No, I didn’t but Chet loved it. (“NO” “I”)
Q: It might have been the book’s sequel — no, I think it was the first book in the series. Models apparently do that a lot. (“ONE”)
D: That’s outside the Musee D’Orsay, which used to be a train station in Paris and it’s now a museum. And here we are at the Louvre.
Q: You know, I’ve been in all (“WHEN”) these same places, I must say.
D: Looking absolutely beautiful. I love what I. M. Pei the architect did with his triangle. I think it’s a huge success. That’s my darling aunt who lives just outside Brighton.
Q: Okay, well, thank you for your interview today.
D: Well, thank you.
Q: Is there anything you would like to add, as I always say at the end of the interviews? (phone rings)
D: Probably. But I can’t think what it is. But I’m just about —
Q: Let’s see who this is on the phone. It’s always interesting to see. I bet his name is Michael. (“EH”)
D: Hello? Yes. Annie, darling, can I call you back in about ten minutes? I’m just saying good-bye to a friend who’s leaving and — okay, darling. Bye. It wasn’t. It was somebody called Ann.
Q: It wasn’t this time.
D: No. (“SON OF BOB”) That is really weird, though. That cane. Because I know that cane wasn’t there when I looked before to find it.
Q: Exactly.
D: Now we’ll probably have to go down to where you have your book so we can find a lunch date that works. I’m doing weights now, Mark. I’m working out.
Q: Good for you. So I’ll continue praying for you.
D: Please do. (“I’M”)
Q: I told Mighael, “Why don’t you just cure Diana (“AS”) to prove your existence — just make an exception in her case.” But I don’t think He will.
D: He probably won’t. (“I HAVE TO GO”)
Q: I’ve done that a few times with people and He never did.
D: No, I have to go through the thing. (“YES”) It’s not there now. (“UPSTAIRS”) I know where you are now but you were not there a minute ago. That’s so weird. (“YEAH”)
Q: Well, that happens all the time. (“BUT I”) I think it happens to everybody. Not just when I’m there but it happens to everybody (“OR I MISS IT”) all the time.
D: It probably does. (“I NEVER”)
Q: It’s like in your car when you see your gas tank looks like it’s empty and then all of a sudden it goes up a notch.
D: Yes.
Q: You’ve had that?
D: No, I haven’t. I can understand them and they’re (all around) about the place.
Q: Well, all kinds of little things, I think, go on all the time.
D: All right, darling. (“SO”) Let —
( . . . )
(“YES”)
Q: In Diana’s entry hall, there is this beautiful object of art that has two — storks? (“MAYBE STORKS”)
D: What that is — is (“F” “PRESS”) not actually —
Q: It’s new. It looks new. (“NO” “ACTUALLY” “IT IS”)
D: — looks like wood — (“I LOVE YOU”) looks like iron or brass but it isn’t. It’s carved out of wood and it’s Frank Lloyd Wright’s plan for Telesson.
Q: And what is Telesson?
D: His workplace where he worked and where he taught. (“MY”) Students came to have him — (“SETH”)
Q: Is this a one-of-a-kind piece?
D: I don’t think it can be. Chet bought it. I think there must be more than this around. But I just loved it so much.
Q: I love it too. I don’t know what are the symbolic ramifications but I bet there are many.
D: Probably, yes.
Q: And this is a —
D: This is done by somebody who actually died of AIDS — a beautiful, wonderful man.
Q: It’s beautiful.
D: It is. It was one of his earlier works because I can show you some of his later works. But this is called “Hong Kong Eats” and it’s a mixed media kind of thing. (“AA”) A friend of mine who’s also gay — (“SHE’S” “WILLIS”) a great friend of his — or a lesbian, I (“SA[Y]”) should say — took me down to his studio in downtown L.A. and I walked through the door and I saw that. And I thought, “I must have that.” It’s probably worth (“THOU” “ENOUGH”) hundreds — well, thousands of dollars now (“I’M”) because the artist’s name is Bill Gatewood. (“AND HE’S”)
Q: Wow. (“HE’S QUITE”) So when you bought it, you didn’t know.
D: No. And he then moved up to San Francisco and lived and worked and ultimately died there. And I’ve got several of his things around the place. (“HAD SOME”) Here. He does do various kimonos.
Q: Oh yes.
D: . . . makes beautiful gold and then he signs them William Gatewood. This is the Lotus Kimono.
Q: Wow, that’s beautiful. And so now he’s a big name artist.
D: Well, he’s dead. (“SO I DOUBT BUT HE “) Probably.
Q: So his artwork is famous.
D: But he was recognized. (“BY”)
Q: Do you know Mark Kostabi? He’s doing the cover for my book.
D: No.
Q: He’s a Postmodernist.
D: Oh, I’d love to see how he’s designing it. (“I’LL BRING A PICTURE OF”)
Q: I’ll bring a picture of it to you — (“WHEN I HAVE”)
D: You know what it’s going to be already?
Q: Oh yeah. I have it at home. (“OH” “BOY” “BUT”) See, I think that God channels through our subconscious minds which art pieces we have.
D: Right.
Q: So he channeled through your mind — that’s why you said when you saw this, “I have to have this.”
D: Yes.
Q: When I saw the Ark of the Covenant, I said, “I have to have this.”
D: And you bought it. I know.
Q: I also have this (“ONE”) beautiful — I’ll bring you other photos — but I also have this beautiful “The Last Supper.” It looks like it’s from the Renaissance. (“WOW”) And I paid (“LIKE”) $30 for it.
D: Wow. (“I’LL BRING” “MAYBE”) You’re getting together all of your various documents and beautiful things.
Q: I’ll bring pictures of them (“FOR ALL” “O”) for all. And I’ve seen your beautiful things. I already know what beautiful things you have.
D: And then I have my blue and white collection dating from 1742.
Q: When I was a child, we had a blue and white collection. (“BUT IT WASN’T'”) They weren’t as nice as these. These are beautiful.
D: A lot of them were destroyed in the earthquake.
Q: Ahhhhhh.
D: Unfortunately.
Q: So these are the ones you have left.
D: So these are the only ones I have left.
Q: They’re beautiful. And your house is a work of art. Did Chet design this house?
D: Yes, he did.
Q: And he’s a famous architect. (“YEAH”)
D: Well, he’s the president of the National — (“I”)
Q: What’s his last name? (“WIDOM”)
D: Widom.
Q: Oh, right. No wonder.
D: What’s my name?!
Q: What was your original name?
D: Solomon.
Q: Oh my God.
D: And then it was —
Q: As in “King Solomon’s Mines.”
D: Exactly. That’s the way Charlotte and I always identified ourselves to people when they haven’t got our names. (“SO”) You know — (‘LIKE THE”) like the mines.
Q: Well, in front of the — it’s funny in terms of Bible parallels. Solomon. Ark of the Covenant. New Age Jesus.
D: It’s all very bound up together. (CUEs begin) (“OKAY”)
Q: Well, we’re almost done taping this interview so Diana was a very important person for my book because she got two whole sides of a cassette. So I’m going to let Mighael (“NO”) add His thoughts if He wants to give any. Or if you want to add any thoughts really quick. Do you have anything to sum up?
D: Not really. I’m just happy that I’ll be seeing you for lunch next week.
Q: And I’m always happy to see you.
D: (And) that you’re in my life.
Q: I’m going to pray for you. (kiss) Heal Diana. Heal Diana. Love heals all.
D: Love heals all. (“I’LL SEE” “IT DD”)
Q: I’ll see you later.
D: Bye-bye, darling. I’ll see you next week.
Q: And what is the style of this house? (“WHAT YOU”) What do you call this — (“I DON’T KNOW” “HOUSE” “HOW DO YOU”)
D: Modern — something. (“I DON’T KNOW”)
Q: Postmodern?
D: It’s got a style but I don’t know what it is. Who knows?
Q: And there’s no crime in this area.
D: No. Luckily there isn’t. And those are two missals that we have. (“ONE”)
Q: What are these? Ohhh.
D: On the door. One of them is my grandmother’s and one somebody else — (“THIS IS”) a friend gave us this one.
Q: Wow. (“SO I HAVE TWO” “THAT’S”) That’s wonderful. (“I LOVE”) I love symbols and (“WHY”) spirituality in life. (“GREAT MEANING”)
D: Great meaning.
Q: I’m just trying to kill time to end this.
D: You finished it. That tape is over. Out. Cut. It’s a wrap.
Q: Thank you.
D: Bye, darling. I’ll see you next week.
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) I just turned on the religious channel.
R: . . . all those things talked about.
Q: 99.5.
R: Love and hate and jealousy —
D: I think Mark asked me if I have had any psychic communication through dreams or living or whatever. I am firmly of the belief that I have psychic information channeling through me all the time. Every psychic reading I’ve ever had (“HAS”) hit on the point you must write things down and I never have. My mother died in August — (“OH I”) Oh I know a psychic incident (“OKAY”) that happened to me very recently. (“I”) In my study in my house, there are several cupboards and in these cupboards I have folders that have various names on them. I was trying to file some papers away in the appropriate folder and it fell out of my hands. Everything kept falling out of my hands (“SSS”) — so weird. And I started crying and I said, “Daddy,” who’s dead — my father, who I adored. He’s been dead for nine years. I said, “Daddy, I can’t do this. You have to help me. Are you here? Are you here? Show me a sign.” And the next thing I knew was that a letter in Daddy’s handwriting flipped out of some folder I was looking at and landed at my feet. And in it it was a letter that he had written to me giving me some very good advice on various subjects. And it ended with, “I love you. I love you. I love you. Daddy.” — which was so weird. I mean that is a weird psychic experience —
Q: Definitely.
D: — that has happened to me — which tells me that his entity is around somewhere (“TRAP”) probably listening to us right now.
Q: Oh, I’m sure. We’ll probably hear him on the tape. (“BOO”)
D: Probably hear him on the tape. Are you there?! “To laugh!” (“SPEAK UP”) Anyway, that was one psychic experience that I had. (“WITH ME”)
Q: That was Diana, by the way.
D: Yes, that was me.
Q: For transcribing later on.
D: Yes, that was me. In the muted — (“[V]O[I]CE”) altered voice. So that is a recent psychic incident (“THE SAD”) I absolutely had. My sister, Charlotte, has actually seen a physical reincarnation of Daddy, which I will describe. She was on holiday in Hawaii and she was sitting down by the edge of the sea. And the beautiful white harbor — kind of like a harbor cove kind of thing. I don’t know which island it was on. I think Kauai but it might not have been. He saw a beautiful white sailboat that came towards her and pulled up at the dock. And Daddy got off. She actually saw him — come over to her and (he) kissed her. And I haven’t ever actually seen my mother or my father. (“BUT”) I’ve certainly heard them about the place. I mean they are around. I mean this letter sliding out is a perfect example. (“YOU KNOW”) I know in the worst parts of my illness when I’m in extreme discomfort and (“NO”) I get very angry with myself — (“BECAUSE”) basically, I’ve lost the use or the feeling in both hands. (“UM”) I get very angry when I drop something or spill something or fall down, (“NO”) which happens to me all the time. Um, and then I have to stop and take a deep breath and try and calm myself down and think, “This is happening to you for a reason. What’s the reason?” And I think part of the reason (“IF”) apart from the fact this life strongly relates to a past life from the time of Christ that a psychic told me about. I think part of the reason that I have this disease is to learn patience. I never had any patience. In fact, one of my early boyfriends in New York wrote me a sign that said “livid forever” because I was so — I’m so “livid about this” — I’m so “livid about that.”
Q: Who was your first husband, by the way?
D: Arnold Shulman. He’s a screenwriter and producer — successful, I think.
Q: “Tucker.”
D: He wrote “Tucker.” He also wrote “And The Band Played On” for HBO. (“LIE” “HE”) He’s a very lovely man. He’s twenty years older than I am. And I don’t regret my marriage to him at all. We didn’t have a horrible divorce. It was fine. Everything is fine and now I love him dearly and (“WE SEE”) he lives — (“IN SAN”)
Q: Deborah Rosen used to be married to a journalist for the Los Angeles Times.
D: Yeah. She did.
Q: What’s his name again? (“I REMEMBER”)
D: Patrick something. She was married but obviously he wasn’t going to get her anywhere where she wanted to go so — even though — anyway, I shouldn’t say — I shouldn’t comment on other people’s relationships because I don’t know anything about theirs.
Q: People love that kind of thing, though.
D: Yeah, I know.
Q: Like Julia Phillips’s book — did you ever read You’ll Never Eat Lunch in This Town Again?
D: I did. (“LOVED IT”)
Q: And The Andy Warhol Diaries? (“I LOVED IT”)
D: Right.
Q: Do you know any of the great gossip — (“YOU DON’T HAVE TO”) you don’t have to name names or anything.
D: The great gossip. Let me think if I know any great gossip. Actually, I do know some great gossip. When I was working in the publicity department for Warner Bros. in the early ’70s or late ’60s, I did something that I shouldn’t have done. I wasn’t 100% truthful about something and the director of the film — I was led up the garden path by a journalist from Time who shall be nameless. And so I told him my opinion of this director’s film.
Q: (laughs)
D: The next thing I know the director’s on the phone saying, “I’m going to come up there and I’m going to throw you out of the window.” And this was, like, on the 22nd floor of a building in New York. So, you know, I’ve learned that you can’t always speak honestly to people. You think you can trust people. You can’t. I think it’s better — (“I MEAN”) this was a major director and I gave my honest opinion to this journalist from Time as to what I thought of the director’s film. Well, it so happened that the journalist from Time and the director — (“WERE”) very great personal friends. He told the director and so the director called me up. (“AND SAID”) And so I realized the traps for the unwary. And another time, working with Time and Newsweek — I was the magazine contact for Warner Bros. in New York again around the same period of time — the late ’60s, early ’70s. I was trying to maneuver different publicity in Time and Newsweek and so I told a lie to one of them — Newsweek, I guess — (“THAT”) this was on the Stanley Kubrick film “A Clockwork Orange”: I didn’t have the art because of some things in the lab or something when, in fact, it was really over at Time magazine. Then, I’ll never forget this. It stuck with me always. The reporter from Newsweek called me up and said, “God damn — We need a tape recorder to talk to you” —
Q: Ohh.
D: — which was just — I’ve never forgotten her saying that to me. So it was so awful and, again, I was trying to be clever but not wicked. I wasn’t trying to be wicked but, you know, these things are taken so seriously by journalists in Hollywood. Especially from these two magazines — Time and Newsweek, which have enmity to the death. They have to be the first out with something.
Q: They’re so powerful too.
D: And they’re so powerful. They can make or break a film — a review can make or break a film, a spread can make or break a film. And that was [the] time when I got caught out in an actual lie, which I was not in the habit of doing but I was just up against it in this case and I wanted to do the best I could for the film. And I was doing the best I could — I thought. And I was working for Warner Bros. — not for Time or Newsweek so I was doing the thing Warner Bros. would want me to do for Stanley Kubrick but not the thing that Newsweek would want me to do (“AS”) opposed to Time. (“SO”)
Q: What do you think, too, by the way, (“I MEAN”) because we’ve both worked “with” Kenneth Branagh and Emma Thompson on “Dead Again.”
D: Yes. Right.
Q: And you’re probably friends with them.
D: Not really because I think they’re the kind of people that — well, to start with, as you know, Emma Thompson is divorcing Kenneth Branagh.
Q: Right. (“YEAH” “SO”)
D: Or has divorced him.
Q: A big surprise.
D: Which was a big surprise — (“FOR”) reasons that he —
Q: She won’t talk about that.
D: No. (“BUT”) I have heard rumors that it’s because Ken’s gay — or not. I don’t know. (“MAYBE”)
Q: We all hear those rumors constantly —
D: Yes.
Q: — about everyone just about.
D: That’s the first rumor you’ve heard. “Oh, well, he or she is gay or a lesbian. I mean that’s it.” That’s a rumor. Or “They’re on drugs” — which —
Q: Right.
D: — too often —
Q: It’s true. (“IT’S TRUE”)
D: — it’s true. So that’s sad but the business — (“THAT MARK”)
Q: Who cares? (“WELL”)
D: But the thing is I do believe that this business — this movie business was created as a framework to test out certain people and see if they could pass their own personal test.
Q: Right.
D: That they had set for themselves on the other side —
Q: Exactly.
D: — where you were Don Simpson or Jodie Foster and Emma Thompson or whatever. Kenneth Branagh — whatever. (“YES”) So they’re working things out (“EVERYONE”) through the movie business. (“IT” “THROUGH”)
Q: If everyone in Hollywood was honest and open about their sexual preference, no one would have to worry.
D: Well, I think we’re moving closer to that. I honestly do. I really don’t think it matters so much anymore. (“BUT”)
Q: My angel, Mighael, who is your angel too apparently, said He was gay.
D: Right. Well, it does — (“ALL”) because ‘gay’ —
Q: And He’s like a Major Angel.
D: Well, ‘gay’ (“YOU KNOW”) – then stop and think, “Well, what does gay mean? Gay means you prefer to have sex with your own sex. (“BUT”) It’s an all-encompassing thing. I mean what’s ‘gay’ to you has another aspect to me.
Q: Well, He let me know what ‘gay’ meant. (“MO[THER]”) In His own inimitable way. (“GRAY” “UH-HUH”)
D: What it is. I have — (“SOME OF MY BE[ST]” “NO”) a lot of my best friends happen to be gay. (“AS”) I just love that sensibility and I feel very at home with that sensibility. I mean maybe I’m latently gay myself. I don’t think so. I haven’t had any indication that I am but, anyway, (“WHATEV”) for whatever reason all the people (“NO”) that I really love a lot turn out to be either gay or lesbian. And (“AA”) I think we’re moving closer to a period in Hollywood now where it can be accepted. It’s alright to come out. And I think the public figures who have been in the news —
Q: Everybody knows that these people are gay.
D: Gay. (“JUST DON’T”)
Q: They just don’t — the unwritten law. Everyone knows (“WHO”) ‘so and so is really gay’ but —
D: But now that we’ve come past the ’30s and Hedda and Louise, gossiping and all that kind of thing, why not? I mean it’s fine to say you’re whoever you are.
Q: Whatever works.
D: Whatever works. I mean do what feels right for you.
Q: But give back, too, to society.
D: Yes. (“GIVE US”) Give something back. If you do what’s right for you, you’re going to feel much more comfortable with yourself and about yourself. And, inevitably, you’ll be in a position where you are giving back to society, I think. (“IF”) If Mark is asking the question, “Who’s gay and who isn’t?” We’ve both come to the conclusion who cares.
Q: Right. (“AND YOU KNOW I’M”)
D: And I am saying that I think the time is coming or has come in Hollywood when you can say that you are without fear or favor.
Q: You also worked with O. J. Simpson. What was your impression of Mr. Simpson?
D: I didn’t work that closely with him. I did work with him on “The Naked Gun” films. (“BUT”) The O. J. that I know was just a sweet, dear person. (“NO”) No hang-ups of any kind. I might be the only person in Los Angeles that you can talk to about the O. J. Simpson trial and get a clear perspective because I didn’t listen to one word that was said about it. And I did not become an O. J. junkie and turn the television on as so many did.
Q: Well, I can’t (“TURN MY”) — I couldn’t watch.
D: Well, you couldn’t watch it because you can’t watch television. (“SO LE[T]” “BUT”)
Q: He turns it off real quick.
D: Can you read newspapers?
Q: Yes, I can.
D: So you can read about what this juror ‘A’ said and what juror —
Q: I watched a little bit of it when it first started. (“WHY”)
D: Well, I didn’t watch any of it and I don’t really know if he killed or he didn’t kill her. At this date she’s dead. So to a certain extent — (“EXCEPT”)
Q: What about (“FAM”) demonic possession? Have you considered that? (“NO”)
D: No. (“IT’S NOT THAT”) I do believe in demonic possession but somehow he doesn’t make it. He doesn’t cut it. Doesn’t seem to me —
Q: But drugs can alter someone’s consciousness — but it’s like, symbolically, demonic possession.
D: Yes. I suppose so. If you look at it from that point of view — from the “drug” point of view. I suppose you could say that he was demonically possessed.
Q: Maybe it was like a lesson for mankind, I think. This whole thing. Some kind of lesson for mankind. Remember the angel pins prominent in the newspapers?
D: Yes. Right. I do remember. (“IT WAS”)
Q: Very — (“THERE WAS”) definite symbols that something more was going on than meets the eye here.
D: Well, I think there was but (“I WENT”) I don’t know what it was. And I probably never will know what it is. (“WELL MY”)
Q: Another theme of my books is not to be judgmental. So only God can judge O. J.
D: Right. Well, I don’t judge him. If he killed her, (“YOU KNOW”) I don’t judge him either. You know. I mean let he who is without sin cast the first stone I mean is basically what it is. So none —
Q: Thank you. Even at Deborah Rosen.
D: Even at Deborah Rosen. So, anyway, I don’t think there’s anybody that we know, dear, (“WHO WAS”) able to cast the first stone. Basically, I just blank it out of my consciousness. It happened over there. In fact, it was my mother’s birthday and we were driving out along the 10 freeway to Santa Monica. We saw all these helicopters circling and circling. We didn’t realize they were news helicopters. That was the evening that they found out (“THEY FOUND”) and even then I just didn’t want to know. I just turned — click — as soon as anything about — I wouldn’t read it in the newspaper. I wouldn’t watch it on television. I wouldn’t get into endless discussions about did he/didn’t he. Because he is working out some of his own karma — (“IN”) if he did it or he didn’t do it. And so who am I to get between him and his karma?
Q: By the way, I notice you have some Michelangelo works on your wall.
D: Right. I don’t know why. I just like them. (“SO I” “BOUGHT THEM”)
Q: Did you get that? Michael — angel — o? (“OH M[Y]”)
D: Oh my God. So I do.
Q: And who is that — is that the playwright?
D: Yes. George Bernard Shaw. (“YEAH”) It’s an actual (“LOVE”) letter. A fan wrote to him and sent him a play. And it’s really hysterical. I have to read it.
Q: Well, I’m the all-time “Pygmalion” story.
D: What’s the all-time “Pygmalion” story?
Q: My story is like the all-time “Pygmalion” story.
D: In what respect? I don’t get that.
Q: Well, Him grooming me to become his P.R. person.
D: “The rain in Spain” — etc.
Q: Exactly. (“THIS” “NOW”) Except I haven’t (“I’M”) been to a linguist. (“TEACHER”)
D: I’m wobbling over to this George Bernard Shaw letter, which was written to a young playwright. And it says: “The dialogue and character are not half bad but you had better read ‘Hamlet.’ There, the dialogue and character are pretty good but Shakespeare doesn’t kill them all until the end of the last act. If he had killed them at the end of the first ten minutes, the public would have demanded its money back.” And then he’s giving advice to this young playwright: “You might, then, study Hindel Wakes”—who was a writer—”to find out how to get plenty of work out of Lancashire factory people”—that’s what Hindel Wakes wrote about—”without ridiculously slaughtering them all instead of letting them go quietly home to bed. Unless you cannot only invent characters but give them plenty to do for at least two hours, you are (“MORE”) no use to the theatre. Try, if you can, make three acts of this and cut out the corpses.” And it’s signed G. B. S.
Q: That’s funny.
D: So that’s really funny. I love that. (“THAT’S LIKE”)
Q: Oh, that’s probably worth a lot of money. (“M”) You must have a lot of insurance.
D: Well, we do.
Q: These are other beautiful things.
D: But these are just little things. (“THIS”)
Q: They remind you of England.
D: This is my parents’. I wanted it. It was one of the only things I wanted.
Q: Did you get my Christmas card, by the way?
D: I did. Thank you. I didn’t send this year because I can’t write.
Q: No. Oh I know. (“NO”) But I’m glad you got it. (“SO”)
D: I got it. (“YES”) I just love it. (kisses) That is one of my mother’s paintings . . . she gave me for my birthday.
Q: Oh she did this herself?
D: No, she didn’t do it herself. (“OKAY”) This is a painting — (“SHE”)
Q: One that she owned. I see.
D: It’s not valuable or anything but I love Victorian weddings in a chapel.
Q: Well, you never know. (“YOU NEVER KNOW”) I bought a beautiful painting recently not for very much money but it had a bell in it. And I have a feeling it’s (“IT’S BY”) by one of the great masters. I also have the Ark of the Covenant, it turns out. (“WATCH ME”) The original Ark of the Covenant.
D: How can you have that?
Q: I bought it at an antique store. I didn’t know what it was at the time. I wanted something to keep my press kits in. And it just turns out that it fits the exact dimensions of the Ark of the Covenant.
D: Gosh.
Q: No, I know. (“I’M GOING TO GIVE”) I’m going to give the money to charity if anyone ever believes me.
D: Wow. (“I ALSO HA[VE]”)
Q: I also have — (“THE”) you’re not going to believe it either. I also have the Holy Grail. I know.
D: Get in touch with Steven Spielberg. (“WHEN YOU HA[D]” “REALLY” “WELL”) If anyone has money to spend — (“BUT SEE”)
Q: But, again, God is proving His existence. This is how He’s doing it. (“GO BUY”) He’s having me go out and buy these antiques for cheap —
D: Right. (“WHICH ARE THE ACTUAL”)
Q: — that are turning out to be the actual —
D: So what does the Holy Grail look like? Is it just a simple clay cup or is it a — (“WELL I”)
Q: I’m having a photo made of it so maybe we’ll get together again once (“YOU WILL”) I get my photos back.
D: Before you leave, I want to make a lunch date with you and also show you the photographs from Versailles.
Q: Okay, great. (“SO MY”) My book — (“I”) it just mortifies me when I talk because I want to say something that’s close to what God would want to say if He was speaking to people and I don’t know what that is because He’s got very different moods. It’s like we all have conflicting emotions. We all feel different things at different times. Love. Hate. Happiness. Anger. (“SO”) These all are true so — (“I’M TRY” “HOPE”) I just hope I’m trying to be a good listener and to raise certain points and pretty much state the things I know to be the most truthful. So I guess where I get into trouble is when you get into the darker side of life in terms of illness, death and people losing their loved ones. (“SO IT’S LIKE”) For some reason, people blame those on God. (“BUT THEY FORGET”) They forget to thank Him for the good things they have in life. (“MY”)
D: I’ll never blame anything on God because I don’t think God’s got the remotest thing to do with people dying. I mean when it’s your time and you decide you don’t want to be (“ANYMORE”) here anymore, you go. So I wouldn’t even think of involving God in that decision as far as death is concerned.
Q: That’s interesting. (“I”)
D: I don’t think He says, ‘Come in, number forty-seven. Your time is up.’ (“I MEAN I”) I think the entity make his own decision when it’s going to go. (“BUT”) With my own parents, (“THEY ON”) one died at home and one died at a very nice hospital. Santa Monica Hospital. And my father, who died at home — I know the day that he died, I remember leaning over him —(“HE WAS”) sort of slipped into a coma at that point — and saying to him, “I’ll look after Mummy. I’ll look after Charlotte. Don’t worry. It’s okay. You can go now if you want to.” And that very night he died. (“I’M”) I said a similar thing to my mother and she died at three o’clock in the morning afterwards. (“I MEAN”) It’s as if you’re waiting. You’re just holding on and you’re just waiting for some kind of permission. (“I THINK”)
Q: I think a lot of people spend most of their life finding ways to be in denial of death by either working too hard or taking drugs or drinking alcohol or having sex — (“JUST”) something to take their minds off this big question of God and their own mortality. (“SO”) It’s an interesting thing to think about. I keep telling my brother not to work so late.
D: What’s Michael doing now?
Q: Well, he’s working at Rogers & Cowan with Chris La Monte.
D: Oh, I didn’t know that. (“I”)
Q: In fact, I interviewed her (“FOR MY”) for my book too. What do you think of Chris La Monte?
D: I don’t know Chris La Monte so I can’t give you any opinion. (“SHE’S”)
Q: She’s very psychic, it turns out. So she thinks the final battle of good and evil is going to take place on the silver screen, which is an interesting concept. But she loves movies so this would be her symbolic interpretation. I don’t really know what the (“SSS”) final battle between good and evil — what dimensions it will take. If it will be done on a symbolic level or if it takes place in each person every day. Probably, I guess that’s up to God (“TO DE”) to decide but we are approaching the end of the millennium.
D: And all the signs are here for (“YOU KNOW”) apocalypse. I mean fires, floods, famines. You know. I mean I’m just —
Q: And now me. (“I’M SICK”) I’m Son of Man. Do you know anything about Son of Man? Well, it’s like another one of the prophecies fulfilled. I didn’t know I was Son of Man until (“AFTER”) coming back from Oklahoma. So I am fulfilling those prophecies. For a little while, I thought I was Mabus but one of the entities said, “NO” — I’m not. So that’s good because he was like ‘the third Antichrist.’
D: Oh dear. (“SO” “THANK”)
Q: Thank goodness I’m not Mabus even though I really did think I was because that was an anagram in my name. (“SO THAT’S”) This is what my second book is about, I guess. If you can, since my book is so important and you know me so well and I’m very nice, maybe you’ll call Sherry Lansing. Just tell her (that).
D: I don’t think it means anything. I would.
Q: I know.
D: I’d do it in a flash but I just think I’m so far removed.
Q: She probably wouldn’t return your call.
D: Well, she probably would because I think she does return all calls but the thing is I feel so far removed from that world.
Q: I’m just trying to get my message out and —
D: I know.
Q: The manuscript is with a vice president there at Paramount.
D: See what happens. (“TEACH ME”) Keep me posted.
Q: Okay, I will. (“I WILL BE”)
D: I feel very funny about calling her.
Q: Okay. (“YOU KNOW” “I MEAN”)
D: I’ve gone past that. Stay here just a second. What did I do with my cane? Did I bring it in here? No.
( . . . )
Q: So Mighael just took Diana’s cane but then gave it back. He’s always doing things like this. What do you think of that, Diana?
D: Well, I think it’s pretty extraordinary because I know that it wasn’t there a second ago and then Mark said, “Look in your usual corner and you’ll find that it’s there.”
Q: So I’m so used to Him now — His ways. (“IS NOT”)
D: In there where —
( . . . )
Q: Diana is showing me her beautiful photographs taken at Versailles. (“WHERE”) I’ve been there too. She’s wearing her beautiful dress. And also, I must say, she’s always had a skin pigmentation problem. I’ve always had sort of bad skin. (“BUT I DON’T”) It doesn’t really bother me.
D: You’ve got beautiful skin now.
Q: Well, my face — yeah.
D: Yeah, you have. (“BUT”)
Q: But see you’re not self-conscious of it at all, which is great. What is this? Is this what Michael Jackson has? Discoloration?
D: Yes. Well, so he says but I can’t believe that he has vitiligo all over his body. I mean if you look —
Q: It’s so even on him.
D: Of course it is. And that’s not the way it works.
Q: It’s not what it is. (“YEAH”)
D: I mean if you look on my hand — and see that it’s not even. But I don’t know what he’s done to himself. He’s done something.
Q: There’s a drug you can take that lightens your skin.
D: Is there?
Q: Yeah. I saw that in “Tales From The City.” Did you see that?
D: No, I didn’t but Chet loved it. (“NO” “I”)
Q: It might have been the book’s sequel — no, I think it was the first book in the series. Models apparently do that a lot. (“ONE”)
D: That’s outside the Musee D’Orsay, which used to be a train station in Paris and it’s now a museum. And here we are at the Louvre.
Q: You know, I’ve been in all (“WHEN”) these same places, I must say.
D: Looking absolutely beautiful. I love what I. M. Pei the architect did with his triangle. I think it’s a huge success. That’s my darling aunt who lives just outside Brighton.
Q: Okay, well, thank you for your interview today.
D: Well, thank you.
Q: Is there anything you would like to add, as I always say at the end of the interviews? (phone rings)
D: Probably. But I can’t think what it is. But I’m just about —
Q: Let’s see who this is on the phone. It’s always interesting to see. I bet his name is Michael. (“EH”)
D: Hello? Yes. Annie, darling, can I call you back in about ten minutes? I’m just saying good-bye to a friend who’s leaving and — okay, darling. Bye. It wasn’t. It was somebody called Ann.
Q: It wasn’t this time.
D: No. (“SON OF BOB”) That is really weird, though. That cane. Because I know that cane wasn’t there when I looked before to find it.
Q: Exactly.
D: Now we’ll probably have to go down to where you have your book so we can find a lunch date that works. I’m doing weights now, Mark. I’m working out.
Q: Good for you. So I’ll continue praying for you.
D: Please do. (“I’M”)
Q: I told Mighael, “Why don’t you just cure Diana (“AS”) to prove your existence — just make an exception in her case.” But I don’t think He will.
D: He probably won’t. (“I HAVE TO GO”)
Q: I’ve done that a few times with people and He never did.
D: No, I have to go through the thing. (“YES”) It’s not there now. (“UPSTAIRS”) I know where you are now but you were not there a minute ago. That’s so weird. (“YEAH”)
Q: Well, that happens all the time. (“BUT I”) I think it happens to everybody. Not just when I’m there but it happens to everybody (“OR I MISS IT”) all the time.
D: It probably does. (“I NEVER”)
Q: It’s like in your car when you see your gas tank looks like it’s empty and then all of a sudden it goes up a notch.
D: Yes.
Q: You’ve had that?
D: No, I haven’t. I can understand them and they’re (all around) about the place.
Q: Well, all kinds of little things, I think, go on all the time.
D: All right, darling. (“SO”) Let —
( . . . )
(“YES”)
Q: In Diana’s entry hall, there is this beautiful object of art that has two — storks? (“MAYBE STORKS”)
D: What that is — is (“F” “PRESS”) not actually —
Q: It’s new. It looks new. (“NO” “ACTUALLY” “IT IS”)
D: — looks like wood — (“I LOVE YOU”) looks like iron or brass but it isn’t. It’s carved out of wood and it’s Frank Lloyd Wright’s plan for Telesson.
Q: And what is Telesson?
D: His workplace where he worked and where he taught. (“MY”) Students came to have him — (“SETH”)
Q: Is this a one-of-a-kind piece?
D: I don’t think it can be. Chet bought it. I think there must be more than this around. But I just loved it so much.
Q: I love it too. I don’t know what are the symbolic ramifications but I bet there are many.
D: Probably, yes.
Q: And this is a —
D: This is done by somebody who actually died of AIDS — a beautiful, wonderful man.
Q: It’s beautiful.
D: It is. It was one of his earlier works because I can show you some of his later works. But this is called “Hong Kong Eats” and it’s a mixed media kind of thing. (“AA”) A friend of mine who’s also gay — (“SHE’S” “WILLIS”) a great friend of his — or a lesbian, I (“SA[Y]”) should say — took me down to his studio in downtown L.A. and I walked through the door and I saw that. And I thought, “I must have that.” It’s probably worth (“THOU” “ENOUGH”) hundreds — well, thousands of dollars now (“I’M”) because the artist’s name is Bill Gatewood. (“AND HE’S”)
Q: Wow. (“HE’S QUITE”) So when you bought it, you didn’t know.
D: No. And he then moved up to San Francisco and lived and worked and ultimately died there. And I’ve got several of his things around the place. (“HAD SOME”) Here. He does do various kimonos.
Q: Oh yes.
D: . . . makes beautiful gold and then he signs them William Gatewood. This is the Lotus Kimono.
Q: Wow, that’s beautiful. And so now he’s a big name artist.
D: Well, he’s dead. (“SO I DOUBT BUT HE “) Probably.
Q: So his artwork is famous.
D: But he was recognized. (“BY”)
Q: Do you know Mark Kostabi? He’s doing the cover for my book.
D: No.
Q: He’s a Postmodernist.
D: Oh, I’d love to see how he’s designing it. (“I’LL BRING A PICTURE OF”)
Q: I’ll bring a picture of it to you — (“WHEN I HAVE”)
D: You know what it’s going to be already?
Q: Oh yeah. I have it at home. (“OH” “BOY” “BUT”) See, I think that God channels through our subconscious minds which art pieces we have.
D: Right.
Q: So he channeled through your mind — that’s why you said when you saw this, “I have to have this.”
D: Yes.
Q: When I saw the Ark of the Covenant, I said, “I have to have this.”
D: And you bought it. I know.
Q: I also have this (“ONE”) beautiful — I’ll bring you other photos — but I also have this beautiful “The Last Supper.” It looks like it’s from the Renaissance. (“WOW”) And I paid (“LIKE”) $30 for it.
D: Wow. (“I’LL BRING” “MAYBE”) You’re getting together all of your various documents and beautiful things.
Q: I’ll bring pictures of them (“FOR ALL” “O”) for all. And I’ve seen your beautiful things. I already know what beautiful things you have.
D: And then I have my blue and white collection dating from 1742.
Q: When I was a child, we had a blue and white collection. (“BUT IT WASN’T'”) They weren’t as nice as these. These are beautiful.
D: A lot of them were destroyed in the earthquake.
Q: Ahhhhhh.
D: Unfortunately.
Q: So these are the ones you have left.
D: So these are the only ones I have left.
Q: They’re beautiful. And your house is a work of art. Did Chet design this house?
D: Yes, he did.
Q: And he’s a famous architect. (“YEAH”)
D: Well, he’s the president of the National — (“I”)
Q: What’s his last name? (“WIDOM”)
D: Widom.
Q: Oh, right. No wonder.
D: What’s my name?!
Q: What was your original name?
D: Solomon.
Q: Oh my God.
D: And then it was —
Q: As in “King Solomon’s Mines.”
D: Exactly. That’s the way Charlotte and I always identified ourselves to people when they haven’t got our names. (“SO”) You know — (‘LIKE THE”) like the mines.
Q: Well, in front of the — it’s funny in terms of Bible parallels. Solomon. Ark of the Covenant. New Age Jesus.
D: It’s all very bound up together. (CUEs begin) (“OKAY”)
Q: Well, we’re almost done taping this interview so Diana was a very important person for my book because she got two whole sides of a cassette. So I’m going to let Mighael (“NO”) add His thoughts if He wants to give any. Or if you want to add any thoughts really quick. Do you have anything to sum up?
D: Not really. I’m just happy that I’ll be seeing you for lunch next week.
Q: And I’m always happy to see you.
D: (And) that you’re in my life.
Q: I’m going to pray for you. (kiss) Heal Diana. Heal Diana. Love heals all.
D: Love heals all. (“I’LL SEE” “IT DD”)
Q: I’ll see you later.
D: Bye-bye, darling. I’ll see you next week.
Q: And what is the style of this house? (“WHAT YOU”) What do you call this — (“I DON’T KNOW” “HOUSE” “HOW DO YOU”)
D: Modern — something. (“I DON’T KNOW”)
Q: Postmodern?
D: It’s got a style but I don’t know what it is. Who knows?
Q: And there’s no crime in this area.
D: No. Luckily there isn’t. And those are two missals that we have. (“ONE”)
Q: What are these? Ohhh.
D: On the door. One of them is my grandmother’s and one somebody else — (“THIS IS”) a friend gave us this one.
Q: Wow. (“SO I HAVE TWO” “THAT’S”) That’s wonderful. (“I LOVE”) I love symbols and (“WHY”) spirituality in life. (“GREAT MEANING”)
D: Great meaning.
Q: I’m just trying to kill time to end this.
D: You finished it. That tape is over. Out. Cut. It’s a wrap.
Q: Thank you.
D: Bye, darling. I’ll see you next week.
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) I just turned on the religious channel.
R: . . . all those things talked about.
Q: 99.5.
R: Love and hate and jealousy —
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