1999 INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST —
TAPE #533, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell Bell
R: recorded telephone message voice
S: Susan, Environmental Affairs Commission
E: Environmental Information Center hotline representative
V: Solid Resources City-Wide Recycling Division message voice
A: City-Wide Recycling Division lab attendant
T: Tim McNamara, City-Wide Recycling Division recorded message
L: Ellen Russell
G: Grace Earhart
Q: So I thought I would interview Grace, my new manager because she’s been so good to me, letting me move in so quickly under adverse circumstances. I just got some keys from her, which I’m going to have duplicated so she’s just been so very helpful. In fact, I asked her about beginning recycling here, which is something I mentioned to her once before, and I’m going to help research how we can start doing recycling. Anyway, in terms of reincarnation in my estimations and what people believe, I think you can always tell if someone’s correct or not. I know I’ve been way off sometimes and — I mean you don’t really know. Again, it’s another mystery. (“BUT”) Sometimes you do know. In this case, I don’t really know. I just know that it was no accident (“THAT”) this was the place I moved into. I needed someplace large with lots of closet room, on the ground floor for my mother, and what else? Well it’s hard finding spacious apartments in L.A. with lots of closet space. Let’s face it. And the valley is very hot yet this one is cool on the first ground floor since hot air rises. There’s a fan in my bedroom/office. We can keep the windows open and bugs don’t get in. There are lots of cats in the complex that come and visit.
( . . . )
Q: So my brother just called me and Steve has convinced him that he should go to a sleep disorder clinic tomorrow night. He has snored periodically. I don’t know how bad it is. I know I’ve been with him on vacations when he has snored and people say I snore sometimes too. Anyway, he’s going to some big medical clinic, which is the last place I would go. He has insurance, he says, which is even more of a reason not to go because all they care about is making money. But, anyway, he didn’t check out (what’s) available holistically first so we’ll see what happens. So I might as well document my efforts regarding beginning recycling here at the apartment complex. It’s something that I’ve been meaning to do but I’ve been so busy with the new tapes and what-have-you that I haven’t had a chance until now.
( . . . )
Q: Environmental Affairs has 666 in the number.
R: We’re sorry. You have dialed a number which cannot be reached from your calling area.
Q: Isn’t that ridiculous? I’m in the valley and, of course, L.A. government is supposed to take care of the valley but I can’t call the 800 number from here. No wonder we want to secede.
( . . . )
S: Environmental Affairs Commission office. This is Susan.
Q: Hi, I was wondering if you could help me — refer me where to go. I live in the valley. (“AND WE”) We want to begin recycling in our apartment complex. We wanted to know where to call.
S: Oh let me give you our hotline. It’s . . . (listening device malfunction)
E: Environmental Information Center.
Q: Hi, I’m living in the valley and our apartment complex wants to begin recycling. (“N”) We were wondering who we could call to get more details.
E: For recycling information, let me get you that number. . . . (listening device malfunction)
Q: Sure.
E: Sir?
Q: Yeah.
E: For information about starting a recycling program for apartment buildings, you would call the city of Los Angeles Public Works Integrated Solid Waste Management office. And the number is (213) 847-1444.
Q: Okay, thank you.
E: You’re welcome.
( . . . )
V: Thank you for calling the Solid Resources City-Wide Recycling Division. Our office is open from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. If you have questions regarding curbside collection, bulky item pick-up or information on the blue bins, please call 1-800-773-2489. The City-Wide Recycling Division provides information and various publications on commercial and office recycling, apartment recycling, the AP939, organic recycling, and household hazardous waste. Please press 03 to reach a lab attendant or you may leave your name, telephone number and a brief message. Please speak slowly and clearly. Once again, thank you for calling —
V: Please hold while your call is being transferred.
A: Good morning. City-Wide Recycling Division.
Q: Yes, I’m calling from . . . the valley and my apartment complex wanted to begin recycling and I was wondering is this the right number or is that 773 number the one we call?
A: Well what it is — are you guys more than four units, sir?
Q: Yes.
A: Okay, the city actually doesn’t service more than four units but we do over here is help you guys maybe set up a program, give you some information, technical assistance.
Q: Okay.
A: Are you interested in that — (“WELL”) you know, just finding out maybe what you can do or?
Q: Well before I was living in Echo Park and we had a separate bin for plastic recyclables and cans. And then I moved to Santa Monica and we had newspaper-only — and this here is — even — pretty — the same size complex. I think there are a hundred units are so. And so — in terms of — we would like to have a separate canister for the —
A: Yeah, I understand. I can transfer you over to the person that can help you out with this — see what they can do.
Q: Okay.
A: Okay? One moment. (“K”)
T: Hi. You’ve reached the office of Tim McNamara. I can’t answer the phone right now so leave your name and number and I’ll call you back as soon as I can. Thanks for calling.
Q: Yes, please call Mark Russell Bell at (gives number). I was referred to you to find out about getting some help beginning a recycling program at my apartment complex here in the valley. (“SO”) Please call me, Tim. Thank you. Bye-bye. (gives number)
( . . . )
Q: I overheard on the TV set today when my mom was watching and I was getting breakfast that there was a new study done that resulted in beef being found to be no worse for one than chicken based upon whether or not (“WHAT”) the rest of your diet consisted of. I mean I don’t remember the exact words so — what a joke that was and then the commentator said that the test had been funded by something with the word cattle or beef in the association or something or other. So I was — went on the Internet to find out more information but I couldn’t find this particular news release. But it just confirmed everything I’ve been saying in these investigative journalist tapes. Of course, does anybody really believe those things I mean? Of course, the TV shows look for these types of ‘beneficial’ news stories — at least beneficial in terms or ratings. Something that makes people feel good about whatever stupid things they happen to be doing rather than, let’s say, something horrendous about the beef industry which, of course, that’s all it is because then they’d lose advertising. And people don’t want to be reminded. They’d rather see something more titillating. So they lose ratings. I mean it’s just all so obvious but no one cares.
( . . . )
Q: So I must say I do feel bad sometimes when I am the psycho bitch from hell [on one occasion this was a bumper sticker seen in traffic]. (“BUT”) Based upon the way things have been going, that’s exactly what our society needs.
( . . . )
Q: So I’m here at the dialysis clinic picking my mother up.
( . . . )
Q: My mother’s weighing out (not her weight). What’s the weight?
L: Forty-eight . . .
Q: Is that good or bad or —
L: Good. No, when I came in I was fifty point . . .
Q: I overheard her say she didn’t like a certain person.
L: Oh yeah, I heard her say that too. On her shift.
Q: We live in such a society (of) so many self-occupied people.
L: She’s the one I had that time . . .
Q: . . . What?
L: Slow. But she was better today.
Q: But it seems like there are some people who are more aware of the other people and some people are just so preoccupied by themselves. They’re rude and nasty all the time to everyone and people don’t like that. It just really makes you wonder. (“EACH”) Each relationship that we have and encounter —
L: Everybody in dialysis is rude and nasty.
Q: Yeah. Especially under heightened situations. It just makes you wonder.
L: . . . filled out my Medi-Cal card.
Q: See now that’s nice. You like everyone there, don’t you?
L: . . . Sure.
Q: Was that Dr. Singh I saw who came out?
L: No. That was some other doctor.
Q: Dr. Singh is young and nice-looking. (“O K”)
L: Oh here we are. Oh it —
( . . . )
G: This is — (“SO”)
Q: As it turns out, Grace had a visit.
G: Yeah. From the holy one. (“FROM”)
Q: From the Lord.
G: From the Lord. The Lord came. It was on a nice, quiet evening. Sometimes you just — feel like — you’re just there and your mind —
Q: Now did you see — (“YEAH”)
G: — becomes, like, blank. Nothing is going on and then all of a sudden — it’s like when you have a lot of troubles and you’re seeking for some answer but it’s not going to help. And this particular night He came. The Lord. I call Him Y’shua HaMeschiach. And when He appeared He didn’t walk like we regularly see somebody walking. He also appeared in my room. I was taking my children to say good night. It was the nighttime. I remember it very clearly. It was about 8:00/8:30 in the nighttime. So I sat at my — I had those nice canopy beds — you know, for my little girl. And as I was placing her on the bed, I just sat on the right hand side of the bed . . . (“NO”) you just — your mind just doesn’t think of anything. It’s just blank. And all of a sudden he appeared but I was not scared. Most of the people would say, “You become fearful or something?” I wasn’t scared. I was very happy.
Q: What did you see? I mean how did He manifest?
G: Just like a person. Beautiful person about I would say —
Q: Male or female or you couldn’t tell?
G: Well He — He was a male, of course. I knew. He was . . . and that’s not because of the sandals. It was (“RI”) the build, strong, and the robe — the white robe that glittered. The beauty of the light.
Q: Incandescent?
G: He was — the most important thing to me was the crown that He was wearing. (phone rings) Anyway.
Q: Oh okay.
( . . . )
G: The crown that he was wearing is not like the crowns that we see — like when we see . . . kings. You know, the crowns that are on the top of the heads. This was within the head and it was built of beautiful (“LI”) circles of light. (“N”) My desire was to stand up—because I was sitting—and look into the light. But I just was amazed —
Q: Why this night, though? Why at this time?
G: Well that’s a thing for us to find out. For him to know and for us to find out. (“RI”)
Q: You did not choose it. (“HE”) He chose it.
G: I — no — I have no idea why this night. But I love —
Q: How long ago was it?
G: That was in summer of 1982. Beautiful night and, anyway —
Q: I don’t think time is the same for Him that is it for us.
G: Of course not. His time. (laughs)
Q: I think He can go back and forth any way He wants.
G: But originally you were asking — the word reincarnation you were using that word —
Q: Reincarnation.
G: — with religion. I believe that when you and I understand the real life and receive — which God holds his Son, which is Jesus Christ, Y’shua HaMechiach—and for you to be talking like that is very strange—but is the reality of the beginning and the ending when He is pleased, He reveals to us Him. And He wants to reveal Him to us. We have to know Him and we know Him by the scriptures. (“NO”) We have to learn things and I personally want to receive such a thing because we — you know the Jewish people believe in prosperity. Most of the people that I know — they want to be poor. We do not believe in that. When Jesus came, he came — (“LI” “WE”) like poor . . .
Q: Thank you very(much) — thank you.
G: (small laugh)
Q: Thank you for that.
G: But He — we were expecting somebody in royalty. But it was written that he will come riding a little pony. It was written. It was established — the way. We knew when all these things and how and everything but we didn’t want to receive him because he didn’t come the way we wanted him. We wanted to see him . . .
Q: . . . So did you feel that this presence was the king of the angels?
G: No. (“WAS IT IN”) . . . I believe that He is God Himself. The visit — why He visited me I have no idea but I’m glad He did. Anyway, the beauty of that visit. He not only blessed me. (“AND”) You and I will not understand, you know, the way that these things happen . . . but I knew what He was talking about. (“YEAH”) He enlightened my mind to understand.
Q: Did you see picture images or just feelings?
G: No no no, I saw the Person Himself. (“YEAH”)
Q: No, right, but I mean how did He (communicate) —
G: And you didn’t see His face because of the beauty of the light of the crown that I told you about.
Q: So He didn’t say anything but by telepathy, perhaps, you had some feelings?
G: Yeah. I would say what we call telepathy — yeah. I did have feelings. (“YEAH”) We talked to each other and it was with a sense of peace. And you were talking about love. He is love. It was just like refreshing your self of the beauty . . .
Q: You know, it’s so funny, when I began my journey and my investigation into all forms of spirituality — this is probably the most difficult area because of — (someone enters). Oh, let me turn —
( . . . )
Q: So, anyway, (“LIKE”) this has — (“BEEN”) has been the most difficult portion of my work because there are all these various — what’s the right word? Sort of mystical books like Urantia and all these strange channeled books.
G: (This) is not a mystical — this is beauty, this is life. (“WELL”) It’s like all peace —
Q: But they seem to be saying — and also (“LIKE”) there’s, like, the Gnostic gospels and all this — (“N”) it’s something that I didn’t want to believe at first and my mind is open to it now that the Great Creator and then (“LIKE”) the Angel Mighael or Something which was almost like a Son type of God — and, of course, this was the Holy Ghost who interacted with Jesus — sort of an unseen Force. And (“SO”) so I’ve been investigating this in various other cultures. Of course, you have the —
G: Have you ever read the book yourself?
Q: Which one? The Bible?
G: The Bible.
Q: Yeah.
G: The Torah you’ve read? I mean it’s just —
Q: Yes — no, I know.
G: — the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Q: That’s what — see, that’s probably where, in terms of my understanding now, I am open to the fact that, perhaps, the Christ God — I mean there is — there are — there is more than one God. (“BUT”)
G: . . . is One. There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. (“THEY”)
Q: Right.
G: Yeah. But it’s only one God and He was manifested in different ways.
Q: Right.
G: So Yahweh which is Jehovah — the Great Jehovah had a need of blessing us and there was no men in this world.
Q: But that’s what I’m not trying to put into words because like there is the Oneness — I mean God the Great Creator and there’s only One. But then —
G: Well then there is a purpose like in our lives we have purpose and you have places where you are sent to, to do certain things. Well the same thing happened with Him. He wanted to bless us so greatly. I mean He has more desire in blessing us than what we ever think of. And there was no way to find a man that was a person to hear Him directly and obey Him so He Himself came in the flesh, which is Jesus Christ. And He did His — He finished His work. He did what He needed to do. I don’t know if you understand this but in the Jewish tradition in order for you to have . . . we make covenants and God told us what to do like bring a lamb to sacrifice a lamb for the forgiveness of sins. Things like that. Okay, I don’t even know if you even understand what I’m talking about but we understand . . . there is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood.
Q: You mean Jewish people in general or —
G: Yes. He . . .
Q: I think everyone’s Jewish. I think if you go back far enough like everyone is probably Jewish.
G: Yeah. (Or “YEAH”) We are because of the root — we came from there but people don’t understand. They like to fight because they — like I say, people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. There is only one bloodline and that’s the Jewish blood.
Q: Do you believe in Adam and Eve?
G: Well I believe what God said. So He says like in — the Jewish people — we have to have a lamb every year to forgive our sins, to cleanse ourselves and things like that — atonement and every thing like that. That was a shadow of things to come. When Y’shua HaMechiach, when Jesus Christ came to this world, He was or is the perfect lamb. He was sacrificed for us so we don’t have to have no more atonement. He is the perfect blood. That is what people don’t understand. If we understand the blood, the Word — (“OY”)
Q: You might not need it.
G: And the name of Jesus.
Q: But what about all those rich people who say that they’re Christians? I mean what about them?
G: What do you mean?
Q: You know — like all the rich people. (“LIKE”) You know — all the movie stars and multi-millionaires.
G: Oh they claim to be one thing —
Q: Destroying the environment and all that. You know, they say that they’re Christian and they even, like, participate in fundraisers —
G: Well there is no possibility for us to say this one and this one is not. We have to know them by their works. (“RIGHT”) We know them by their works.
Q: Oh I agree.
G: And that what I say — so the perfect lamb was sacrificed, which is Y’shua HaMechiach, Jesus Christ. And all of us — you — I don’t know what kind of background you have but you have the right to come in through Him because He’s the mediator between God and Man. He’s in-between everything. No one else . . . so the Father is home. (“YEAH”) He sends His Son to do His work for us to come in. We receive. We understand that He is Life so if we receive Jesus we cannot die anymore. He’s life.
Q: Probably the only area where I would sort of differ with what you’ve said is in terms of Jesus. I mean —
G: In what way?
Q: Just basically that I believe that he was a Christed one and, of course, like there are different civilizations — (“BUT”) I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness or anything but I really do think that this Power that came into his life — you know, the Holy Ghost —
G: He’s here with us. He’s my best friend.
Q: But I feel that this is, like, the true Son Energy as opposed to just the man Jesus. I believe that there’ve been many Christed ones.
G: I believe when you refer to energy, you’re actually referring to life because there is no life without Him. He’s Life. And He — there’s no darkness in Him.
Q: I think — (“YES HE’S” “SEE I’M”) everything you say I agree with but (or “BUT”) I see this more as an Angelic Son — I don’t see this (“JUST AS”) — like Jesus of Nazareth I believe was just one incarnation of (“YEAH”) this Energy.
G: And what is it that makes you believe that?
Q: Well that’s what my —
G: That’s a question.
Q: That’s what my whole book is about. I mean there’s just so much documentation.
G: You see in the beginning there was Jesus and Jesus is God. And before Him there was no one else. He’s the Creator of all things (“MY” “YEAH”) because He chose —
Q: See, I think we get too trapped into words because — I mean, of course, each of us are God too but —
G: In a way.
Q: Yeah. In a way.
G: In a way. (small laugh)
Q: So I mean, again, it’s like it’s so hard to deal with — I think that’s why the book is so good.
G: We can use an example. (“NO” “I DON’T KNOW”) In my case, I am a mother and wife and I have children. And mothers and fathers I believe that we always wish that our children will obey and do what we think is better for them. But they have to make their choices. Well it’s the same thing with us. We are grown people and we have to make a choice. We either chose the path of life or light or the path of darkness. (“NO”)
Q: And that’s another good point. When you say to honor they mother and thy father — and you honor thy children as well —
G: So you see how it applies?
Q: You don’t do that by giving them anything they want.
G: That’s right.
Q: You do that by not giving them things that they want when it’s not good for them.
G: You make choices.
Q: And that’s where our society I think right now really —
G: Yeah, most of the people say, “Oh well I’m going to be able to give this. I need this and the children are going to do this, you know?” But it’s not true. Obedience — obedience is the one thing that . . .
Q: I know. (“SO LIKE”) Like would you ever let your kid have those horrible computer games where the characters kill one another?
G: I know. Violence.
Q: I mean my — this is ridiculous.
G: It is.
Q: And cellular phones? Why do kids need to have cellular phones in school?
G: Well this is the reason why we see so much violence.
Q: Plus I know from reading on the Internet that it does cause cancer. Brain tumors. People who — it does interfere with the brain waves. The cellular phones.
G: The pressures that they have to go through, you know?
Q: Yeah — status.
G: Or they want to . . . (“HOW OLD ARE YOUR”)
Q: How old are your kids?
G: My children? I have a daughter who is 23.
Q: Oh good.
G: My son will be twenty-one.
Q: So your done?
G: And I have a thirteen-year-old —
Q: Uh-oh.
G: He’s going to be thirteen years old. (laughs)
Q: At this time it’s, like, so difficult. (groans)
G: Yeah. (or “YEAH”) But, you know, technology is . . .
Q: I want to ask you about reincarnation, though, in terms of do you think — have you ever had any dreams or any feelings (“LIKE”) that maybe you did live somewhere else?
G: I have never had any dreams or feelings of living in someplace else or being someone else.
Q: What are you afraid of? Like are you afraid of water of flying?
G: I have no fears.
Q: You have no fears, okay.
G: And there is something of the thing I told you — if you do not have understanding, you cannot receive knowledge. When you receive the Holy One, which is called Y’shua HaMechiach, Jesus Christ, Whatever you have named the Lord.
Q: What about the Angel Mighael?
G: You cannot receive them because they were not sacrificed to us. They are to help us. All the angels help us. I’m not going to say they’re not but the only One that we are to actually receiveth Him, which is Jesus. He is life. So my life started when I started understanding that reality of Him.
Q: So this Entity — (“THAT”) when it manifested to you, it looked — with the beard — it looked like Jesus Christ?
G: No no no, I’ m not saying that because of that, that I am the way that I am —
Q: No, I know but —
G: I say understanding what He is and receiving Him as God is what has created in me the peace, the joy that can — nobody can take away that. (“YEAH”) And the understanding and knowing — you wor(ship) — we worship only one God, okay? And God — understanding, it makes you complete because you don’t have to wonder here and there. He is, He was and He will be.
Q: But I just want to be clear on the visitation because last night on “Dateline NBC” there was an alien —
G: Visitation?
Q: — looked sort of like this (indicating my T-shirt) —
G: Oh really?
Q: — appearing to a computer industry millionaire. And he saw an alien who spoke to him. So —
G: Well let me tell you what I believe in regards to that. I don’t believe there are aliens, so to speak, but I believe there are demons and they can manifest the same way — in the spiritual way that we know things. If you — let me give you an example. Let’s say that you are into the occult, that you want to learn more about such things. And they have a right to come over and join you because there’s a call that you join in. Now if I want to join the call of life, they’re going to join me because I’m seeking them, okay? So there are only two kingdoms. The kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light.
Q: See, when I was a little boy, I did — I sort of called — I had a seance once where I called the spirits.
G: Uh-huh. (“BUT”) Oh so you were involved in the occult?
Q: Well no — (“JUST”) you know, I just had — just that one time I had a little seance.
G: Playing.
Q: Right.
G: Uh-huh. (“CALL”)
Q: But I only — I didn’t call demons, I just called spirits and it turned out (“IT WAS REALLY NOT”) that it was not an evil force. I mean I think most people project evil into them.
G: Do you ever see them?
Q: Well what happened is there was this little, like, tornado that occurred. (“RIGHT AT THAT TI[ME]” “WHAT”) I said —
( . . . )
Q: So my brother just called me and Steve has convinced him that he should go to a sleep disorder clinic tomorrow night. He has snored periodically. I don’t know how bad it is. I know I’ve been with him on vacations when he has snored and people say I snore sometimes too. Anyway, he’s going to some big medical clinic, which is the last place I would go. He has insurance, he says, which is even more of a reason not to go because all they care about is making money. But, anyway, he didn’t check out (what’s) available holistically first so we’ll see what happens. So I might as well document my efforts regarding beginning recycling here at the apartment complex. It’s something that I’ve been meaning to do but I’ve been so busy with the new tapes and what-have-you that I haven’t had a chance until now.
( . . . )
Q: Environmental Affairs has 666 in the number.
R: We’re sorry. You have dialed a number which cannot be reached from your calling area.
Q: Isn’t that ridiculous? I’m in the valley and, of course, L.A. government is supposed to take care of the valley but I can’t call the 800 number from here. No wonder we want to secede.
( . . . )
S: Environmental Affairs Commission office. This is Susan.
Q: Hi, I was wondering if you could help me — refer me where to go. I live in the valley. (“AND WE”) We want to begin recycling in our apartment complex. We wanted to know where to call.
S: Oh let me give you our hotline. It’s . . . (listening device malfunction)
E: Environmental Information Center.
Q: Hi, I’m living in the valley and our apartment complex wants to begin recycling. (“N”) We were wondering who we could call to get more details.
E: For recycling information, let me get you that number. . . . (listening device malfunction)
Q: Sure.
E: Sir?
Q: Yeah.
E: For information about starting a recycling program for apartment buildings, you would call the city of Los Angeles Public Works Integrated Solid Waste Management office. And the number is (213) 847-1444.
Q: Okay, thank you.
E: You’re welcome.
( . . . )
V: Thank you for calling the Solid Resources City-Wide Recycling Division. Our office is open from 8 a.m. to 5 p.m. If you have questions regarding curbside collection, bulky item pick-up or information on the blue bins, please call 1-800-773-2489. The City-Wide Recycling Division provides information and various publications on commercial and office recycling, apartment recycling, the AP939, organic recycling, and household hazardous waste. Please press 03 to reach a lab attendant or you may leave your name, telephone number and a brief message. Please speak slowly and clearly. Once again, thank you for calling —
V: Please hold while your call is being transferred.
A: Good morning. City-Wide Recycling Division.
Q: Yes, I’m calling from . . . the valley and my apartment complex wanted to begin recycling and I was wondering is this the right number or is that 773 number the one we call?
A: Well what it is — are you guys more than four units, sir?
Q: Yes.
A: Okay, the city actually doesn’t service more than four units but we do over here is help you guys maybe set up a program, give you some information, technical assistance.
Q: Okay.
A: Are you interested in that — (“WELL”) you know, just finding out maybe what you can do or?
Q: Well before I was living in Echo Park and we had a separate bin for plastic recyclables and cans. And then I moved to Santa Monica and we had newspaper-only — and this here is — even — pretty — the same size complex. I think there are a hundred units are so. And so — in terms of — we would like to have a separate canister for the —
A: Yeah, I understand. I can transfer you over to the person that can help you out with this — see what they can do.
Q: Okay.
A: Okay? One moment. (“K”)
T: Hi. You’ve reached the office of Tim McNamara. I can’t answer the phone right now so leave your name and number and I’ll call you back as soon as I can. Thanks for calling.
Q: Yes, please call Mark Russell Bell at (gives number). I was referred to you to find out about getting some help beginning a recycling program at my apartment complex here in the valley. (“SO”) Please call me, Tim. Thank you. Bye-bye. (gives number)
( . . . )
Q: I overheard on the TV set today when my mom was watching and I was getting breakfast that there was a new study done that resulted in beef being found to be no worse for one than chicken based upon whether or not (“WHAT”) the rest of your diet consisted of. I mean I don’t remember the exact words so — what a joke that was and then the commentator said that the test had been funded by something with the word cattle or beef in the association or something or other. So I was — went on the Internet to find out more information but I couldn’t find this particular news release. But it just confirmed everything I’ve been saying in these investigative journalist tapes. Of course, does anybody really believe those things I mean? Of course, the TV shows look for these types of ‘beneficial’ news stories — at least beneficial in terms or ratings. Something that makes people feel good about whatever stupid things they happen to be doing rather than, let’s say, something horrendous about the beef industry which, of course, that’s all it is because then they’d lose advertising. And people don’t want to be reminded. They’d rather see something more titillating. So they lose ratings. I mean it’s just all so obvious but no one cares.
( . . . )
Q: So I must say I do feel bad sometimes when I am the psycho bitch from hell [on one occasion this was a bumper sticker seen in traffic]. (“BUT”) Based upon the way things have been going, that’s exactly what our society needs.
( . . . )
Q: So I’m here at the dialysis clinic picking my mother up.
( . . . )
Q: My mother’s weighing out (not her weight). What’s the weight?
L: Forty-eight . . .
Q: Is that good or bad or —
L: Good. No, when I came in I was fifty point . . .
Q: I overheard her say she didn’t like a certain person.
L: Oh yeah, I heard her say that too. On her shift.
Q: We live in such a society (of) so many self-occupied people.
L: She’s the one I had that time . . .
Q: . . . What?
L: Slow. But she was better today.
Q: But it seems like there are some people who are more aware of the other people and some people are just so preoccupied by themselves. They’re rude and nasty all the time to everyone and people don’t like that. It just really makes you wonder. (“EACH”) Each relationship that we have and encounter —
L: Everybody in dialysis is rude and nasty.
Q: Yeah. Especially under heightened situations. It just makes you wonder.
L: . . . filled out my Medi-Cal card.
Q: See now that’s nice. You like everyone there, don’t you?
L: . . . Sure.
Q: Was that Dr. Singh I saw who came out?
L: No. That was some other doctor.
Q: Dr. Singh is young and nice-looking. (“O K”)
L: Oh here we are. Oh it —
( . . . )
G: This is — (“SO”)
Q: As it turns out, Grace had a visit.
G: Yeah. From the holy one. (“FROM”)
Q: From the Lord.
G: From the Lord. The Lord came. It was on a nice, quiet evening. Sometimes you just — feel like — you’re just there and your mind —
Q: Now did you see — (“YEAH”)
G: — becomes, like, blank. Nothing is going on and then all of a sudden — it’s like when you have a lot of troubles and you’re seeking for some answer but it’s not going to help. And this particular night He came. The Lord. I call Him Y’shua HaMeschiach. And when He appeared He didn’t walk like we regularly see somebody walking. He also appeared in my room. I was taking my children to say good night. It was the nighttime. I remember it very clearly. It was about 8:00/8:30 in the nighttime. So I sat at my — I had those nice canopy beds — you know, for my little girl. And as I was placing her on the bed, I just sat on the right hand side of the bed . . . (“NO”) you just — your mind just doesn’t think of anything. It’s just blank. And all of a sudden he appeared but I was not scared. Most of the people would say, “You become fearful or something?” I wasn’t scared. I was very happy.
Q: What did you see? I mean how did He manifest?
G: Just like a person. Beautiful person about I would say —
Q: Male or female or you couldn’t tell?
G: Well He — He was a male, of course. I knew. He was . . . and that’s not because of the sandals. It was (“RI”) the build, strong, and the robe — the white robe that glittered. The beauty of the light.
Q: Incandescent?
G: He was — the most important thing to me was the crown that He was wearing. (phone rings) Anyway.
Q: Oh okay.
( . . . )
G: The crown that he was wearing is not like the crowns that we see — like when we see . . . kings. You know, the crowns that are on the top of the heads. This was within the head and it was built of beautiful (“LI”) circles of light. (“N”) My desire was to stand up—because I was sitting—and look into the light. But I just was amazed —
Q: Why this night, though? Why at this time?
G: Well that’s a thing for us to find out. For him to know and for us to find out. (“RI”)
Q: You did not choose it. (“HE”) He chose it.
G: I — no — I have no idea why this night. But I love —
Q: How long ago was it?
G: That was in summer of 1982. Beautiful night and, anyway —
Q: I don’t think time is the same for Him that is it for us.
G: Of course not. His time. (laughs)
Q: I think He can go back and forth any way He wants.
G: But originally you were asking — the word reincarnation you were using that word —
Q: Reincarnation.
G: — with religion. I believe that when you and I understand the real life and receive — which God holds his Son, which is Jesus Christ, Y’shua HaMechiach—and for you to be talking like that is very strange—but is the reality of the beginning and the ending when He is pleased, He reveals to us Him. And He wants to reveal Him to us. We have to know Him and we know Him by the scriptures. (“NO”) We have to learn things and I personally want to receive such a thing because we — you know the Jewish people believe in prosperity. Most of the people that I know — they want to be poor. We do not believe in that. When Jesus came, he came — (“LI” “WE”) like poor . . .
Q: Thank you very(much) — thank you.
G: (small laugh)
Q: Thank you for that.
G: But He — we were expecting somebody in royalty. But it was written that he will come riding a little pony. It was written. It was established — the way. We knew when all these things and how and everything but we didn’t want to receive him because he didn’t come the way we wanted him. We wanted to see him . . .
Q: . . . So did you feel that this presence was the king of the angels?
G: No. (“WAS IT IN”) . . . I believe that He is God Himself. The visit — why He visited me I have no idea but I’m glad He did. Anyway, the beauty of that visit. He not only blessed me. (“AND”) You and I will not understand, you know, the way that these things happen . . . but I knew what He was talking about. (“YEAH”) He enlightened my mind to understand.
Q: Did you see picture images or just feelings?
G: No no no, I saw the Person Himself. (“YEAH”)
Q: No, right, but I mean how did He (communicate) —
G: And you didn’t see His face because of the beauty of the light of the crown that I told you about.
Q: So He didn’t say anything but by telepathy, perhaps, you had some feelings?
G: Yeah. I would say what we call telepathy — yeah. I did have feelings. (“YEAH”) We talked to each other and it was with a sense of peace. And you were talking about love. He is love. It was just like refreshing your self of the beauty . . .
Q: You know, it’s so funny, when I began my journey and my investigation into all forms of spirituality — this is probably the most difficult area because of — (someone enters). Oh, let me turn —
( . . . )
Q: So, anyway, (“LIKE”) this has — (“BEEN”) has been the most difficult portion of my work because there are all these various — what’s the right word? Sort of mystical books like Urantia and all these strange channeled books.
G: (This) is not a mystical — this is beauty, this is life. (“WELL”) It’s like all peace —
Q: But they seem to be saying — and also (“LIKE”) there’s, like, the Gnostic gospels and all this — (“N”) it’s something that I didn’t want to believe at first and my mind is open to it now that the Great Creator and then (“LIKE”) the Angel Mighael or Something which was almost like a Son type of God — and, of course, this was the Holy Ghost who interacted with Jesus — sort of an unseen Force. And (“SO”) so I’ve been investigating this in various other cultures. Of course, you have the —
G: Have you ever read the book yourself?
Q: Which one? The Bible?
G: The Bible.
Q: Yeah.
G: The Torah you’ve read? I mean it’s just —
Q: Yes — no, I know.
G: — the Old Testament and the New Testament.
Q: That’s what — see, that’s probably where, in terms of my understanding now, I am open to the fact that, perhaps, the Christ God — I mean there is — there are — there is more than one God. (“BUT”)
G: . . . is One. There is the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. (“THEY”)
Q: Right.
G: Yeah. But it’s only one God and He was manifested in different ways.
Q: Right.
G: So Yahweh which is Jehovah — the Great Jehovah had a need of blessing us and there was no men in this world.
Q: But that’s what I’m not trying to put into words because like there is the Oneness — I mean God the Great Creator and there’s only One. But then —
G: Well then there is a purpose like in our lives we have purpose and you have places where you are sent to, to do certain things. Well the same thing happened with Him. He wanted to bless us so greatly. I mean He has more desire in blessing us than what we ever think of. And there was no way to find a man that was a person to hear Him directly and obey Him so He Himself came in the flesh, which is Jesus Christ. And He did His — He finished His work. He did what He needed to do. I don’t know if you understand this but in the Jewish tradition in order for you to have . . . we make covenants and God told us what to do like bring a lamb to sacrifice a lamb for the forgiveness of sins. Things like that. Okay, I don’t even know if you even understand what I’m talking about but we understand . . . there is no forgiveness of sin without the shedding of blood.
Q: You mean Jewish people in general or —
G: Yes. He . . .
Q: I think everyone’s Jewish. I think if you go back far enough like everyone is probably Jewish.
G: Yeah. (Or “YEAH”) We are because of the root — we came from there but people don’t understand. They like to fight because they — like I say, people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. There is only one bloodline and that’s the Jewish blood.
Q: Do you believe in Adam and Eve?
G: Well I believe what God said. So He says like in — the Jewish people — we have to have a lamb every year to forgive our sins, to cleanse ourselves and things like that — atonement and every thing like that. That was a shadow of things to come. When Y’shua HaMechiach, when Jesus Christ came to this world, He was or is the perfect lamb. He was sacrificed for us so we don’t have to have no more atonement. He is the perfect blood. That is what people don’t understand. If we understand the blood, the Word — (“OY”)
Q: You might not need it.
G: And the name of Jesus.
Q: But what about all those rich people who say that they’re Christians? I mean what about them?
G: What do you mean?
Q: You know — like all the rich people. (“LIKE”) You know — all the movie stars and multi-millionaires.
G: Oh they claim to be one thing —
Q: Destroying the environment and all that. You know, they say that they’re Christian and they even, like, participate in fundraisers —
G: Well there is no possibility for us to say this one and this one is not. We have to know them by their works. (“RIGHT”) We know them by their works.
Q: Oh I agree.
G: And that what I say — so the perfect lamb was sacrificed, which is Y’shua HaMechiach, Jesus Christ. And all of us — you — I don’t know what kind of background you have but you have the right to come in through Him because He’s the mediator between God and Man. He’s in-between everything. No one else . . . so the Father is home. (“YEAH”) He sends His Son to do His work for us to come in. We receive. We understand that He is Life so if we receive Jesus we cannot die anymore. He’s life.
Q: Probably the only area where I would sort of differ with what you’ve said is in terms of Jesus. I mean —
G: In what way?
Q: Just basically that I believe that he was a Christed one and, of course, like there are different civilizations — (“BUT”) I’m not a Jehovah’s Witness or anything but I really do think that this Power that came into his life — you know, the Holy Ghost —
G: He’s here with us. He’s my best friend.
Q: But I feel that this is, like, the true Son Energy as opposed to just the man Jesus. I believe that there’ve been many Christed ones.
G: I believe when you refer to energy, you’re actually referring to life because there is no life without Him. He’s Life. And He — there’s no darkness in Him.
Q: I think — (“YES HE’S” “SEE I’M”) everything you say I agree with but (or “BUT”) I see this more as an Angelic Son — I don’t see this (“JUST AS”) — like Jesus of Nazareth I believe was just one incarnation of (“YEAH”) this Energy.
G: And what is it that makes you believe that?
Q: Well that’s what my —
G: That’s a question.
Q: That’s what my whole book is about. I mean there’s just so much documentation.
G: You see in the beginning there was Jesus and Jesus is God. And before Him there was no one else. He’s the Creator of all things (“MY” “YEAH”) because He chose —
Q: See, I think we get too trapped into words because — I mean, of course, each of us are God too but —
G: In a way.
Q: Yeah. In a way.
G: In a way. (small laugh)
Q: So I mean, again, it’s like it’s so hard to deal with — I think that’s why the book is so good.
G: We can use an example. (“NO” “I DON’T KNOW”) In my case, I am a mother and wife and I have children. And mothers and fathers I believe that we always wish that our children will obey and do what we think is better for them. But they have to make their choices. Well it’s the same thing with us. We are grown people and we have to make a choice. We either chose the path of life or light or the path of darkness. (“NO”)
Q: And that’s another good point. When you say to honor they mother and thy father — and you honor thy children as well —
G: So you see how it applies?
Q: You don’t do that by giving them anything they want.
G: That’s right.
Q: You do that by not giving them things that they want when it’s not good for them.
G: You make choices.
Q: And that’s where our society I think right now really —
G: Yeah, most of the people say, “Oh well I’m going to be able to give this. I need this and the children are going to do this, you know?” But it’s not true. Obedience — obedience is the one thing that . . .
Q: I know. (“SO LIKE”) Like would you ever let your kid have those horrible computer games where the characters kill one another?
G: I know. Violence.
Q: I mean my — this is ridiculous.
G: It is.
Q: And cellular phones? Why do kids need to have cellular phones in school?
G: Well this is the reason why we see so much violence.
Q: Plus I know from reading on the Internet that it does cause cancer. Brain tumors. People who — it does interfere with the brain waves. The cellular phones.
G: The pressures that they have to go through, you know?
Q: Yeah — status.
G: Or they want to . . . (“HOW OLD ARE YOUR”)
Q: How old are your kids?
G: My children? I have a daughter who is 23.
Q: Oh good.
G: My son will be twenty-one.
Q: So your done?
G: And I have a thirteen-year-old —
Q: Uh-oh.
G: He’s going to be thirteen years old. (laughs)
Q: At this time it’s, like, so difficult. (groans)
G: Yeah. (or “YEAH”) But, you know, technology is . . .
Q: I want to ask you about reincarnation, though, in terms of do you think — have you ever had any dreams or any feelings (“LIKE”) that maybe you did live somewhere else?
G: I have never had any dreams or feelings of living in someplace else or being someone else.
Q: What are you afraid of? Like are you afraid of water of flying?
G: I have no fears.
Q: You have no fears, okay.
G: And there is something of the thing I told you — if you do not have understanding, you cannot receive knowledge. When you receive the Holy One, which is called Y’shua HaMechiach, Jesus Christ, Whatever you have named the Lord.
Q: What about the Angel Mighael?
G: You cannot receive them because they were not sacrificed to us. They are to help us. All the angels help us. I’m not going to say they’re not but the only One that we are to actually receiveth Him, which is Jesus. He is life. So my life started when I started understanding that reality of Him.
Q: So this Entity — (“THAT”) when it manifested to you, it looked — with the beard — it looked like Jesus Christ?
G: No no no, I’ m not saying that because of that, that I am the way that I am —
Q: No, I know but —
G: I say understanding what He is and receiving Him as God is what has created in me the peace, the joy that can — nobody can take away that. (“YEAH”) And the understanding and knowing — you wor(ship) — we worship only one God, okay? And God — understanding, it makes you complete because you don’t have to wonder here and there. He is, He was and He will be.
Q: But I just want to be clear on the visitation because last night on “Dateline NBC” there was an alien —
G: Visitation?
Q: — looked sort of like this (indicating my T-shirt) —
G: Oh really?
Q: — appearing to a computer industry millionaire. And he saw an alien who spoke to him. So —
G: Well let me tell you what I believe in regards to that. I don’t believe there are aliens, so to speak, but I believe there are demons and they can manifest the same way — in the spiritual way that we know things. If you — let me give you an example. Let’s say that you are into the occult, that you want to learn more about such things. And they have a right to come over and join you because there’s a call that you join in. Now if I want to join the call of life, they’re going to join me because I’m seeking them, okay? So there are only two kingdoms. The kingdom of darkness and the kingdom of light.
Q: See, when I was a little boy, I did — I sort of called — I had a seance once where I called the spirits.
G: Uh-huh. (“BUT”) Oh so you were involved in the occult?
Q: Well no — (“JUST”) you know, I just had — just that one time I had a little seance.
G: Playing.
Q: Right.
G: Uh-huh. (“CALL”)
Q: But I only — I didn’t call demons, I just called spirits and it turned out (“IT WAS REALLY NOT”) that it was not an evil force. I mean I think most people project evil into them.
G: Do you ever see them?
Q: Well what happened is there was this little, like, tornado that occurred. (“RIGHT AT THAT TI[ME]” “WHAT”) I said —
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