INTERVIEW — TAPE #53, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell I: Marie Todd (friend in California)P: unnamed NRG screening participantB: Michael Paul Russell (my twin brother in California)D: Doug Mueller (certified personal fitness trainer)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AT THE TIME THIS WAS RECORDED, I THOUGHT THE TAPE RECORDER HAD BEEN RECORDING WHILE MARIE AND I WERE WATCHING THE FILM. I LATER DETERMINED THAT IT HAD BEEN SET ON PLAY.)
Q: Well, Marie, the tape recorder was running during the movie by accident so I was doing something illegal —
I: Wait. Where are we going?
Q: — I was taping a movie that you’re not supposed to tape but — well, you saw what I wrote. Do you remember what I wrote? I basically said that “It’s uncanny how bad some movies are — positively supernatural. My only reaction is that God looks forward to being with Sherry Lansing for all eternity. (“HE MADE” “DOGGY” “IS NOT AS”) This movie is not as good as ‘Seven’ or ’12 Monkeys.'”
I: It’s a cable movie.
Q: And I only gave it three 6s. Do you think that Wayne will call Sherry after and tell her about this?
I: The — who?
Q: Wayne Rogers. They used to date. They used to be an item.
I: Well, I don’t understand what you mean. Was he there or something?
Q: Well, he was the executive producer of the film so he probably was there. Anyway, (“BUT”) on the way out, by the way, I went to one of the producers and I said, “Great movie.” (“UH-HUH”) Just to show you that I can be very charming. (“AND”) You know? When I want to be.
Q: Well, let’s go to my car. (“CAUSE I” “WE HAVE TO”) We have to drop off my manuscript.
Q: At least try. Make an effort. You know?
I: It’s cold.
Q: It’s very cold. (“HUH HUH”) And wearing this goddamn T-shirt doesn’t make it much warmer. Actually, I’m wearing something underneath it so it isn’t that cold. Mighael’s probably saying ‘You nut’ right now. Where did I park? Oh, there I am. See over there?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I KNEW THAT THE BATTERIES WERE WEAK BEFORE I HAD ACCIDENTALLY LEFT THE TAPE RECORDER PLAYING DURING THE FILM SO I TURNED IT OFF AND ON IN INTERLUDES TO CONSERVE WHAT POWER WAS LEFT.)
Q: Hold the tape recorder for me (“WHILE”) while I — (“GET MY” “WHO DOES”) well, what do you think, Marie?
Q: Of the movie? What did you think?
I: Well, I — (“YOU KNOW I”) I usually like those kind of movies. I just don’t think there were enough characters in the movie. That’s why it was slow. Or weren’t enough actors in it. (“WH”)
I: It was too sparse. It was an empty film.
Q: Well, yeah, but how do they make movies like this? I mean who would have thought that this script was good? Who would have thought the direction was good? How do these movies get made?
I: I know. Who directed it?
Q: How do they happen?
I: On a low budget. (“I MEAN”)
Q: But sometimes brilliant, superb masterpieces are made on low budgets. Have you always wondered why certain directors make wonderful movies with no money and others don’t? Maybe it’s just God. (“NO”)
I: It’s just style. (“MAYBE IN”)
Q: No, but any —
I: Style. Different people — different styles —
Q: Yeah, but what is style?
I: Well, if you’re going to have lots of special effects or if you’re going to have —
P: You don’t have any jumper cables, do you?
P: Jumper cables?
Q: Jumper cables. No, I’m sorry.
I: No, I don’t have any. Sorry.
Q: Mighael has been very busy tonight. (“SO MARIE”) Was He tickling your hair like He was tickling my hair during the movie? (“NO”) You didn’t feel anything?
I: No. Nothing.
Q: It’s very light. (“YOU”) You really have to get used to it.
I: No, I would — (laughs) believe me. If somebody was messing with my hair (“WELL”) or my head, I would know.
Q: Okay. (“DAD” or “DEAD”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I WASN’T SURE IF THESE COMMENTS WOULD BE AUDIBLE BECAUSE THE SECTION I PLAYED BACK SEEMED HARD TO HEAR SO I CALLED MARIE TO FURTHER DOCUMENT THE EVENTS OF THE EVENING WHILE THEY WERE STILL FRESH IN OUR MINDS.)
Q: Oh, hi, Marie.
Q: So, anyway, I mean I just quickly — (“LISTENED”) you know, quickly listened through part of the tape while the batteries were weak.
Q: So I just put in some new batteries. (“IN” “BUT UM”) The last thing that you could hear before I turned off the tape was just one word from Mighael: ‘Good.’
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I REACHED A DIFFERENT CONCLUSION UPON LISTENING TO THE TAPE WITH MY DICTAPHONE TAPE RECORDER AND COUNTER SPY SHOP EARPHONES.)
I: Oh, great.
Q: And it was one of the more alien or robotic voices.
I: Oh wow. (“SO”)
Q: But the thing is, though, I don’t know what happened but (“YOU KNOW”) I started the evening at the beginning of A side —
I: And then that tape changed. I have somebody on the other line. Can I call you back? (“OH OKAY”)
I: Okay, bye. (“K BYE”)
( . . . )
I: Hi, Mark.
Q: Hi. So, basically, (“WHAT I’M”) what I’m going to do is — I mean I started the night at the beginning of side A.
Q: And then when the movie started, I thought I had turned it off. (“WELL”) But it was dark so (“I — I”) I don’t know what happened. Actually, I regretted turning it off because as soon as I had turned it off, there was that joker and there was the bells sound effect. Do you remember that?
I: Um-huh. (“SO WHAT’S O[NE]”)
Q: So one possibility is that I didn’t turn it off and I (“PUT IT ON”) put it on play by accident. And since the tape was blank I just didn’t hear it. And it didn’t make any beeping noises or anything. But, still, that doesn’t explain how (“WHEN I”) afterwards how it got to side B so obviously somehow Mighael got it out of the machine and this machine does have a lock device. (“SO YOU — YOU KNOW”) So, basically, He would have had to have it — (“TO HAVE”)
I: No, I don’t believe He operates on human terms.
Q: No, right. That’s what I’m saying.
I: He could turn the tape without opening or unlocking or whatever else. That’s like —
I: I mean I’m not an authority but I believe with that genre of being they don’t do things the mechanical way we do.
Q: Right. When I was in Oklahoma —
I: It’s beyond that. (“RIGH[T]”)
Q: — Maxine’s chair, which was made out of wood, bent inward. (“UH-HUH”) So there’s something molecular here going on.
Q: He didn’t have to take it out of the tape recorder. It just changed within the tape recorder. My tape recorder doesn’t have an automatic reverse. You definitely have to take the tape out and put it back in — humanly. Of course, Mighael can do whatever He wants. (“SO”) I guess I put it on play by accident and He knew that I didn’t know. What was that noise in the background just now?
I: Oh, that was just me. I hit something against a bowl.
Q: Okay. Well, I hear a lot of those noises on my tapes so I always ask. But now what did you think when the film started and there was no sound? Did you know immediately that it was Mighael? Or do you wonder?
I: I wonder. I mean I wouldn’t say it wasn’t. If I wasn’t there with you I wouldn’t have thought about that. Because I would have just thought it was some technical bullshit — (“UM-HUH”) what happened.
Q: And then afterwards as I was taping, those people came up and asked for jumper cables. So that was funny. It’s all symptomatic of the same phenomena, which is basically God proving His existence through me so I can write about these things.
I: It’s funny, though, with batteries. I remember when I lived over on Las Palmas by Melrose there. (“THE”) There was once or twice where over half the cars on the same street had dead batteries. And we all joked that it was vampire night or something the night before. Because there were people all over both sides of the street whose cars wouldn’t start.
Q: So thank you — when we went over to the admin building — (“YOU KNOW”) I know how Paramount operates. I know that the cleaning people leave the doors open and all the lights are on and everything so I knew I would be able to leave the book there with no problems. (“BUT”) You mentioned you did see that one woman (“STARE”) giving me the eye. (“SO DO YOU THINK”) Who do you think that was? (“OR” “YOU KNOW”) You have no idea?
I: I don’t know but she just had this real mean face and these extremely pursed lips and, like, (small laugh) weird eye expression and I just thought —
Q: Well, how would you interpret what she was saying with her face?
I: I don’t know what she was saying. I just know she was talking to some man and she just had this excessively angry expression on her face. (“WELL WHAT WAS I”) Do you know how when somebody purses their face up that it looks like a prune? (“RIGHT”) Do you know what I mean? When I turned around —
I: — I saw that. I was, like, “Hieuww, it scared me.”
Q: Almost like a wicked witch or something. Right?
I: Yeah. (“BUT ANY”) I mean I don’t know who it was. I mean it’s probably somebody like way too important for some, like, you know, nobody like me but that’s beside — position has nothing to do with it. She looked frightening. (“WOULD HAVE”) She (“I”) scared me! (laughs)
Q: (laughs) Well, the ironic thing here is that I was all ready to say, “I’m looking for Judith Russell — my cousin, Judith Russell.” (“IT’S JUST” “ISN’T IT”) Isn’t it too much of a coincidence that Sherry’s assistant is named Judith Russell?
I: Well, do you know who that is? (“I MEAN”)
Q: Well, I know her last name is Russell.
I: I know but have you met her? (“I DON’T”)
Q: I think I spoke to her when I called the other day.
I: No. But I mean have you met her before on the lot or —
Q: I don’t think so.
I: Does Allison know her? Or somebody?
Q: I’m sure Allison knows her.
I: Just ask her. Find out where she’s from. (“YEAH”)
Q: Well, I know she’s a Russell. (“SO”) We’re from the same bloodline. So, anyway, we had an interesting night. I think I’m just going to leave that (“TA”) tape side blank (“JUST” “AS A”) just as a proof (“THAT”) something happened.
I: You know, I don’t think you even need your tapes to have to prove anything. Your book speaks for itself —
I: — and you aren’t going to court (“WELL I”) yet.
Q: Well, I know that you were a little concerned about what I wrote about the film. I mean what did you think basically? Do you think I went over the line?
Q: But I didn’t really threaten her.
I: No. But all the symbols and all the psychosis were there to make somebody freak out on it. (“WHAT IF” “WILL”) I mean I’m no authority about (“RIGHT”) anything but just looking at it from —
Q: But you don’t think I did anything against the law?
I: No, I don’t — (“THINK ANY”) that (“A”) ‘against the law’ isn’t it. There are just ways of discrediting yourself.
Q: But it’s one way of getting somebody to read something. Wouldn’t you say?
I: I don’t know. (“BUT”)
Q: Well, all I know is —
I: But all I know is that —
Q: Well, God — (“DID IT”)
I: I understand but (“YEAH”) what I’m trying to say (“RIGH[T]”) is I’ve been involved in a lot of creative projects in many different ways —
I: — that were really good and this and that and the other and the thing is there’s a part of people going over a line and when you cross over a line you thoroughly discredit yourself and it doesn’t matter what you have, what you’ve done, whatever else — it’s dismissed.
Q: But the point —
I: I’m not saying (“RIGHT”) anything I did —
Q: No, I know.
I: — was dismissed. I just know from spinning in a lot of different circles in the music business and the film industry — and this and that and the other and having temporary jobs in the regular world too. I mean there are just ways of discrediting (“RIGH[T]”) yourself and you can’t go — and I’m not telling you what to do.
Q: No, I know. (“BUT”)
I: You cannot go around making statements like that and doing those kind of markings and things and then expecting people to take what you’re saying seriously because they’ll trash it.
Q: But I didn’t sign my name to the sheet, though.
I: No, I understand that.
Q: Right. (“BUT YOU THINK THEY WOULD”)
I: But I’m just saying —
Q: You think they’ll be able to figure it out?
I: Well, I don’t think — well, she’s got there’s this, like, wacked-out and with the 6s all they’re going to say is —
Q: Well, that’s what my — (“THOUGHT”)
I: — is that you’re like some wacked-out, Satanic whatever —
Q: Well, I am.
I: — crazed person.
Q: No — not Satanic.
I: And then she’s got —
Q: No, I’m the ‘Antichrist.’ I can use 6s.
I: I know that you say that and —
Q: (small laugh)
I: — Michael (the Entity) says that or whatever else but that’s not what I’m talking about.
Q: No, I know.
I: I’m talking about how it would be received — or when you’re talking about on a media-level sense —
Q: Well, let me just explain. I know.
I: — on a sales-level sense. Because people can’t — I don’t care what you have —
Q: Okay, but listen listen listen real quick.
I: No, but let me finish something.
I: If you discredit yourself it doesn’t matter what you have because people won’t spend. And when they won’t spend then you have a failure. And it can be a great piece of work.
Q: Okay. First of all, but I wrote her the first letter way back on November 27th. I never got a response.
I: Well, you can’t expect to.
Q: No, I know, but I’m — (“SAY”)
I: Hey, I’ve written things to all sorts of people and didn’t get responses. (“BUT I”) Nobody cares.
Q: No, that’s what I’m saying. I have nothing to lose. (“NO”)
I: Oh, I know that. But I’m just talking about — you do have something to lose. You have a lot to lose.
Q: Well, I’ll risk it.
I: I understand.
Q: Life is about taking risks.
I: Mark, my whole life has been a risk.
Q: Right. I know.
I: Okay? (“WELL SEE”) I shouldn’t even (“YEAH”) technically still be here. But the point of what I mean by it is you’re very attached to your material, which any artist that’s in a creative project becomes. If you weren’t attached to your material something would be wrong. But there’s a point when the material’s done and you’ve got to release yourself from your material and deal with it on another level. You’re still very attached to your material.
Q: No, I know. Well let me just explain real quick.
I: And that’s normal.
Q: You’ve been doing a lot of explaining. Let me just explain real quick. (“IT WAS JUST”) It seemed fateful to me to have the opportunity to go onto the Paramount lot at this specific time and I didn’t even know then that (“THAT”) Wayne Rogers was the producer of the film. It just seemed like —
I: Exec. producer.
Q: Right. Well, whatever. (“BUT THE”) But the point, though, is that God told me to get my book to Sherry. I thought it was Sherri Spillane but I got two messages to give my book to Sherry so now I’m thinking it was Sherri Spillane and Sherry Lansing because there were two —
I: Well, no, maybe it was just Sherry Lansing and Sherri Spillane has nothing to do with it.
Q: That’s possible. (“BECAUSE SHERRI”)
I: Because you’ve got to look at this in another sense too. (“YOU DO[N’T]”) I mean getting wacked-out is one way of getting attention. But it’s also — so much of that has gone on recently that people are (“BUT YOU DON’T”) discrediting it.
Q: But there was my —
I: That still doesn’t mean that you need Sherri Spillane. (“BUT”)
Q: No, I know. It doesn’t mean that. I mean maybe —
I: You know?
Q: It’s all — (“INTERPRETABLE”) I mean I don’t know which Sherry the voice really means. Sherry Spillane has not called me back since I spoke to her when she was doing the breakdown submissions. So maybe you’re right. Maybe both (“SWEE”) times it was Sherry Lansing that the voice meant.
I: Yeah. And Sherri Spillane may have nothing to do with it because the big gamble is with them. And I’m not saying it to be mean. (“BUT”) Let’s face it, they’re basically a flaked-out agency. You need someone that’s much more above that. (“YEAH”)
Q: That’s true. (“I HAVE TO”) I have to (“REALLY”) carefully consider — (“I MEAN YOU’VE GOT TO” “THE NEXT STEP”)
I: You’ve got to look because — (“WELL”)
Q: I guess it will depend upon if I get it back —
I: The only way —
Q: — from Sherry Lansing or not.
I: No, but (“I MEAN”) you have to think in a high literary sense. And I don’t know that Ruth Webb and Sherri Spillane are capable of that. And I’m not to be quoted on this and please do not be recording this right now. Because I don’t want this to be on —
Q: Okay, I’ll turn it off.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TURNED OFF THE TAPE RECORDER AND THEN RECORDED MY STATEMENTS WITHOUT USING THE LISTENING DEVICE. THE TRANSCRIPT DOESN’T INDICATE THE MANY PAUSES. I LEFT THIS PORTION IN TO SHOW HOW INDIVIDUALS CONCERN THEMSELVES ABOUT OFFENDING OTHERS EVEN IF WHO THEY’RE TALKING ABOUT HAVE NEVER SHOWN ANY CONCERN ABOUT THEIR OWN REPUTATION. RUTH AND SHERRI HAVE PROVEN THEY HAVE A SENSE OF HUMOR ABOUT THEIR NOTORIOUS ENTERPRISE. THE COVER PHOTO ON THE JANUARY 12TH, 1996 LOS ANGELES READER SHOWS THEM DRESSED IN RED AND RUTH, SEATED, IS EVEN DISPLAYING A RED GARTER.)
Q: Right. Well, let me just explain that (“YOU KNOW”) my response to the — everyone is entitled to their own response to the film. (“BUT”) When I put (“SI[X]”) “666” down, that’s what I was giving — (“THEY” “IT SAID”) 1 through 5 (“AND YOU KNOW”) and 5 being worse. I put down a 6 because I thought it was worse than a 5. And I did that in both of the two sections. (“AND THEN”) And then at the end, instead of grading each particular actor or whatever, I just gave the whole thing a 6. So that was my evaluation of the film. Well, we’ll see. I don’t think they’ll throw it away. (“THEY PROBABLY” “NO”) No, I know. (“BUT I’M JUST SAYING THAT”) I said my two favorite scenes were the ones with the joker with the bell sound effects and at the end with the Silver Bell Chapel scene. (“SO IT WOULD BE) It wouldbe easy for them to figure out Mark Russell Bell. If you heard someone tell you that they were married, Mighael told you that they were married. Well, I know. But I didn’t say that they were married. Remember the movie “Married To It”? Well, the title is cute. “Married to It.” (“CUTE”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I LATER CALLED MY MOTHER TO ASK HER IF SHERRY HAD EVER BEEN MARRIED TO WAYNE ROGERS AND SHE SAID THEY HADN’T BEEN. THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY BROTHER.)
Q: I had lunch with Don Levy. (“A[ND]”) And (“HIS”) he is the publicist handling the Academy campaign for Columbia. Is it true that —
B: He is?
Q: Yeah. You know that. (“GOD”)
B: I didn’t know that.
Q: So were you happy with the results of the Screen Actors Guild nominees?
B: I haven’t heard them yet.
Q: Oh really? (“I” “I” “DDD”)
B: Was it today?
Q: Yeah. I don’t think Jonathan (“PR”) Pryce was nominated.
B: You’re kidding? (“I TH”)
Q: Well, that’s what Don said.
B: Well, then, he wouldn’t lie.
Q: Is that a big upset?
B: Well, he wasn’t nominated for the Globe either.
Q: Oh, I see. (“WELL HOW”) That’s strange, isn’t it?
B: I think he deserves to win. (“YOU KNOW I”) I don’t understand. (“HOW COULD HE NOT”)
Q: How could he not be nominated?
B: Did you see the film?
B: Anyway, (“BUT HE I MEAN”) I don’t understand. I don’t get it either.
Q: Is it that SAG members — (“OR FOREIGN”) the HFPA members haven’t seen the film?
B: Well, I thought the Foreign Press received the cassettes too late.
Q: Is that what it was?
B: What I think it was. (“YEAH”)
Q: But many must have (“SEEN”) been to the screening of it? A big movie like that? Big director? (“I” “I”) Big names? (“NO”)
B: Who knows? How’s Don doing?
Q: Oh fine. (“AWFUL I TOLD”) I filled him in on the details.
Q: What do you mean, “Uh-oh”?
B: So — you didn’t tell him about Michael?
Q: Of course. Mighael. Mabus. (“CAUSE OF IT”)
B: They always — (“MMM”) everybody you tell that to — they think you’re out of your fucking mind. You know that.
Q: Well, that’s okay.
B: Well, I know but — you know. (“BE A” “YOU KNOW I” “GUESS WHAT I”)
Q: Guess what I did tonight?
B: People are going to start talking about you in Hollywood.
Q: That’s okay. I want them to talk.
B: You do?
Q: I need the publicity. (“MY”) I went into Sherry Lansing’s office and I left my book for her on her desk.
B: What book?
Q: Testament. (“O” “YOU KNOW THE”) I printed out the first 1,300 unedited pages. (“AND”) The voices on my cassettes said, “GIVE SHERRY THE BOOK.” Well, now I’m thinking it’s Sherry Lansing and not Sherri Spillane so I just left the book on her desk in the Administration Building. Isn’t that funny? I also went to see a screening on the lot. (“SO”)
B: Which one?
Q: It’s called (“EASY”) “Easy Money” with Roy Scheider. I guess it’s a cable film. But guess who produced it?
Q: Wayne Rogers. (“SO”) I gave the film three 6s and I said, “It’s uncanny how bad some movies are — positively supernatural. The only thing I can say is that God looks forward to being with Sherry Lansing for all eternity. Kiss kiss kiss kiss kiss kiss kiss (ending with a heart symbol). (“ME”) Not as good as ‘Seven’ or ’12 Monkeys.'” (“OH”)
B: That’s funny.
Q: Uh-huh. Isn’t that funny? (“AND SO”) Marie thought I had crossed the line this time. (“YES”)
B: Mark, I don’t know. Terrible — I don’t want you to end up back in that institution. (“OH”)
Q: Oh, I also said my favorite scenes were “The opening scene where there’s a joker and bell sound effects; and at the very end when they get married at the Silver Bell Chapel.” And where it said “Worst scenes,” I wrote “Every other one.” (laughs)
B: Oh no.
Q: What do you mean, “Oh no”?
B: They don’t know it’s you, though.
Q: Well, no, they don’t but (“YOU CAN”) my pseudonym in my book is Mark Russell Bell. I mean it doesn’t take a genius to figure that one out. Right? (“A” “AND YOU KNOW THESE”) These screenings are supposed to be non-industry.
B: I know. (“SO ANYWAY”)
Q: It’s just too funny for words. But obviously it was fate that I’d be there. Right?
Q: I mean how else could I have just happened to go to a movie produced by Wayne Rogers?
Q: Was he ever married to Sherry Lansing?
B: Yes. (“YOU KNOW THAT W[AS]” “THAT’S ONE OF THINGS”)
Q: Some weird things happened tonight. Marie said that I had told her that they were married and I never told her that. So, obviously, Mighael told her they were married and later on when she said, “Well, you told me they were married.” (“I[T]”) It was Mighael who told her that. He spoke to her like he spoke to your receptionist that time when He said — (“WELL I’M”)
B: I’m at Canter’s to eat dinner. I’m starving. So I’ll talk to you later.
Q: Okay. (“WAIT WILL WAS THERE”) Was there anything else I was going to tell you? I guess that’s all for right now.
Q: Oh. And Mighael kept touching my hair during the movie. He just can’t (“TAKE HIS”) keep His hands off me. (“OKAY”) Is that real love or not?
B: I don’t know.
Q: Okay. (“BYE”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS INEXPLICABLE PHENOMENA ON DISPLAY IN “MONEY PLAYS” WITH AN INSERT OF A SPINNING DICE. THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEW IS WITH PHYSICAL TRAINER DOUG MUELLER.)
Q: Oh hi, Doug?
D: Oh, it’s Mark.
Q: It’s Mark calling back. Excuse my cold.
D: Oh, you sound so bad.
Q: I know. Now does one come in — by the way, I thought I would do one of my famous conversations for my book talks with you. (“OH”)
D: Oh, okay.
Q: Because I’m dying to have you in my next book.
D: Oh, okay.
Q: I hope I’m not too literal about that.
Q: But, anyway, I just checked my statement and Bally’s — (“I MEAN STILL”) they’re still — everything’s fine in terms of — it seems like the money that I was credited has still been credited to me and —
D: It was credited to you?
Q: Yeah, it was credited to me and they haven’t reneged on it or anything.
D: Okay. So you do have that?
D: Okay, good. (“WHICH IS”)
Q: Actually, that’s very good — hello?
Q: Oh, it’s just my my listening device is making some weird noises. It’s very, very good for them.
Q: Because Blue Cross, who really treated me terribly — when I was listening to one of my interviews where I was complaining about Blue Cross, I said, like, “Well, why are they doing this?”
Q: And the Entity on one of my tapes said because, “THEY KNOW THEY’RE DAMNED.”
D: Oh wow.
Q: So it’s like people who are not level with other people are damned.
Q: So (“ANYWAY SO”) that’s good for people to know.
D: Okay. (“BUT NO WAIT”)
Q: Real quick, now this whole thing (“YOU KNOW”) regarding that sexual abuse stuff —
Q: That was very weird, wasn’t it?
D: Oh, it’s still upsetting me.
Q: You know what I think happened, don’t you?
D: What’s that?
Q: The Entity, through the subconscious minds of the other people, did this for whatever reasons.
D: Who knows? (“YEAH REALLY” “EXAC”)
Q: But this is what It does all the time to manipulate me to do what It wants.
D: Yeah. Exactly.
Q: So (“I MEAN”) they might think that they really meant this.
D: Uh-huh. (“BUT”)
Q: No. (“THEY DIDN’T”) I mean it was really channeling.
D: Yeah. Exactly. (“SO I MEAN I”)
Q: But, anyway, I wanted to interview you for my book because you’re so nice.
D: Oh, well, thank you. (“AND YOU”)
Q: And you’ve been such a big help for me.
D: Oh that makes me feel good. (“I MEAN”)
Q: Many of the things you said to me during our training sessions — you know, it was like a second therapist.
Q: But one who was much nicer.
D: (small laugh)
Q: No. Really.
D: That makes me feel good.
Q: Exactly. (“AN[D]”) Even when I told you some of the surprising things which anyone would have trouble believing.
Q: Like the fact that your DAM tattoo could signify that you’re the reincarnation of Nostradamus.
D: Yeah. Exactly. (“PLAIN”)
Q: What was your thought when you heard that?
D: I thought, “Well, it could be.” (“YOU KNOW” “IT’S LIKE”) It’s like, you know, I never doubt anything.
D: You know, who am I? I’m just a very simple-minded individual. (“YEAH”) And I’m here for such a short time, who am I to question anything, you know?
Q: And also now your ancestry — could that be traced back to Nostradamus’s ancestry?
D: Of what ancestry was Nostradamus?
Q: I’m really not sure. (“CAUSE IF”)
D: (Mine is) German and Polish.
Q: I’m really not sure. That’s a good question. I mean I really don’t have time to research everybody. (“GERMAN”)
D: German, Polish and English. (“AN IT” “AND”)
Q: Before then who knows?
D: Excuse me? (“I AM”)
Q: And before then who knows where your ancestors were?
D: Exactly. (“EXAC”)
Q: So it’s very interesting to think about.
Q: Because I keep meeting people and they keep telling me who they’re the reincarnation of. I sort of guessed yours. (“I MEAN”) People come up to me — (“AND THERE” “IM”) I’m meeting all these famous people.
Q: And I’m not telling them. They’re telling me.
D: Isn’t that neat?
Q: Yeah. It’s neat. So I’m just saying have you had any strange experiences or dreams or anything that might lead you to think that this is true?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS A MOMENTARY LISTENING DEVICE MALFUNCTION ON THE TAPE HERE.)
D: . . . my dreams right now. You know? I don’t know.
Q: Throughout your life, (“THOUGH”) have you ever had any — (“WH”) what’s the strangest thing that’s ever happened to you?
D: Probably the one that I remember the most was that incident with may parents. (“YEAH”) When I said after their death that they were in the church with me. That was really probably the thing that stands out in my mind the most. (“AND YOU SMELLED”)
Q: What did you smell — or something?
D: No, it’s like I felt them
Q: Oh, you just felt their presence?
D: It’s like I never ever had that feeling before and it’s like (“THEY CA[ME]”) they came to the church and because I was in the back pew they were standing right behind me. And they it’s like they put their hands on my shoulder and just stayed there and sang the songs and did that. And then after the ceremony it’s like (“WERE THIS BOOK”) you get the feeling as if they’re just saying, “Okay, now we can say good-bye.” Because when they left they didn’t — (“THEY HAD GONE OUT”) they were going to my grandmother’s for her birthday and they crossed a railroad track and were hit by a train. (“SO”) There were no good-byes, no nothing. It was just like they left and they were gone.
Q: Do you know that I can’t tell you how many friends and acquaintances over the years have had relatives die very suddenly.
D: Uh-huh. (“I MEAN BEFORE AN[D]”)
Q: Before they knew me or when they knew me. It’s just like it’s not so much that bad things happen to people because they meet me or because they know me it’s just that since I’m at the center of the synchronicity (“THAT”) it’s just more noticeable (“A N”) strange things happen.
Q: It’s not a question of good or bad (“EXACTLY”) or undeserved things. (“O” “UNDESERVED”) It’s just that God has a plan.
Q: And His plan is being revealed through me. When I was working at Slade, Grant, Hartman and Hartman, a public relations firm, the receptionist there — (“I THINK”) I think her name was Rebecca — and she always wore (“OR”) glasses that looked just like the ones worn by Patricia Hitchcock in “Strangers On A Train.” One day while I was working there, Rebecca learned that her father had been run over by a train.
Q: So that was another train incident that was very shocking and very upsetting. In terms of ancestry names, I guess Mueller doesn’t really have any kind of meaning that one can see right away.
D: Mueller means — I think it is like miller. (“NO”) And what it might mean is that’s what you did — that we were millers at one time.
Q: And what are millers? (“NO THEY” )
D: That work on a mill. (“YOU KNOW LIKE”) Like back in the old days it would be guys that (“DID THE”) crushed the flour, (“MADE”) made wheat and stuff into flour and stuff.
Q: Well, there must be some kind of symbolism there. But (“WHAT”) now the funny thing too is one of the things that Mighael revealed to me was the fact that people who have had delusions and (“YOU KNOW LIKE HEAR”) heard voices all through history, you know, like really did hear voices. I mean like God was speaking to them to make them feel deluded or whatever. He hasn’t spoken to me but these are all impressions that I’ve been able to realize just from (“YOU KNOW” “MY DAY”) day-to-day life.
Q: So for a while He was making me think that you were in the Secret Service.
D: Oh really?
D: Wow. (“I — I — I”)
Q: At any time were you in the Secret Service?
D: No. I had a brother-in-law who was a Narc back in the ’60s. But that’s the only thing. (“AND MY”) My brother, who worked for the air force, had to have special classification (“YOU KNOW”) because he was working on a radar station.
Q: Uh-oh. UFOs (“THOU”) involved?
D: Excuse me?
Q: Do you think he might have had any UFO experiences?
D: He may have because he worked at a (“RA[DAR]”) radar station in Cambria. (“WHICH”) And he was al(so) — (“PLAY”) classified. He had to have top clearance. That’s the closest experience I’ve had. But I’ve never been involved in. (“IS HE”)
Q: Is he your older brother?
Q: And when was this? How long ago?
D: In the ’60s.
Q: Were you living with him at the time? (“WHAT IF YOU”)
D: I’ve spent summers with him.
Q: When he was working there?
Q: Well, you could have had some kind of (“EXPER”) out-of-the-body experience. (“WHEN” “B”) You could have had an abduction, basically.
D: I could have. (“N”)
Q: They could have done some genetic engineering to (“MA”) even make you in the first place.
D: That’s true.
Q: Because (“THEY KN”) they know — they guide us into our careers and jobs. (“LIKE”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #53, SIDE #2 ENDS HERE. THEY KNEW THE UNKNOWN  BY MARTIN EBON CHRONICLES THE SUPERNATURAL EXPERIENCES OF SUCH FAMOUS PEOPLE AS VICTOR HUGO, WHOSE COMMUNICATION WITH SPIRITS IS CHRONICLED IN CHEZ VICTOR HUGO: LE TABLES TOURNANTES DES JERSEY . THE FOLLOWING IS A MESSAGE ATTRIBUTED TO SHAKESPEARE’S SPIRIT.)
I saw Cervantes once. He greeted me and spoke to me thus: Poet, what do you think of Don Quixote? and Moliere, who was passing by, said: He is the same man as Don Juan. And I said: He is the same man as Hamlet. Don Quixote doubts, Hamlet doubts. Don Quixote seeks, Don Juan seeks, Hamlet seeks. Don Quixote weeps, Don Juan laughs, Hamlet smiles, all three suffer. In the skull Hamlet holds in his hand, there is your tear, O Cervantes; there is your laughter, O Molière. The skeleton of doubt grimaces beneath the beauty of all three of our works. We created the drama, God finishes it. Look at the sky: it is the final act. The tombstone which opens our souls is the curtain rising on the dénoument. Applaud, Cervantes! Applaud, Molière! Applaud, Shakespeare! God is making His entrance upon the stage.