INTERVIEW — TAPE #5, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Gordon Russell (interviewer)
M: Maxine Mc Wethy (the mother)
W: Bill Mc Wethy (Maxine's husband)
T: Twyla Eller (daughter)
B: Brenda Bell (daughter)
K: Kim Carrell (daughter)
S: Steve Eller (Twyla's husband)
Y: Megan Eller (Twyla's daughter)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS TAPE WAS TRANSCRIBED IN LATE DECEMBER 1995, A TIME WHEN I WAS STILL GAINING EXPERTISE IN WORKING WITH DIFFERENT TRANSCRIBING MACHINES AND TAPE RECORDERS TO DETERMINE WHICH ONES PRESENTED THE UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS MOST CLEARLY. THIS SIDE BEGINS WITH INTERVIEW PARTICIPANTS INTERACTING LIKE NEAR-DELIRIOUS INHABITANTS OF A DREAM. TWYLA LAUGHS EERILY. MY THOUGHTS ARE FOCUSED ON MICHAEL AS I EAGERLY ACKNOWLEDGE EACH POSSIBLE INDICATION OF HIS PRESENCE. BILL IS MUMBLING OMINOUSLY ABOUT WHAT HAPPENED TO A TRIBE OF INDIANS — THEN THE SUBJECT SUDDENLY CHANGES AND SO DOES THE MOOD WITH MAXINE CHEERFULLY SOUNDING LIKE ONE OF THOSE GOOD-NATURED MOTHERS YOU SEE IN TV COMMERCIALS.)
Q: I heard that noise that you heard.
W: And before it got done it wiped out the whole afflicted tribe. (“HMM”) It’s still not right.
M: You know the little red brake lights in the back of the car?
T: (laughs)
K: He tore that off —
T: To the dash — you know the brake light?
K: — when we were going to the cemetery one night.
T: Remember that time we were going out to Jane’s Bridge and all your stuff in the car started on fire. We got back here and it was just fine — it was like overheating. (“NO”) It was fine.
S: The lady who always takes us home.
T. Shut up. You like to tell everybody the ice cream story.
S: No, I love it. No — the pudding —
M: Yeah, and that’s fun! (“NO”)
S: Twyla took two pudding cups with us in that car and she opened one, didn’t eat all of it and we were riding down the road and all of a sudden that stuff was going everywhere. You couldn’t — everywhere.
M: I had it in my hair. (“EVERYWHERE”) It was ridiculous.
S: And then she opened the other pudding cup and started to eat it.
T: Shut up. (“SHUT UP”)
S: What was funny — because I was driving and you could humor her — I mean you see, hear special effects where someone gets hit or something.
M: Schmack.
S: Schmack. Just like that. You could hear that. And I looked and she had one right on her forehead. He threw that one right in the middle of her forehead.
M: The lid of a cup. (“HUH” “AND IT WAS SO SMALL”)
Q: Do you remember what you were talking about at the time or anything?
T: How about when Lucia went and bought that present?
M: (laughs)
S: Yeah. (laughs) That’s funny.
M: He had it all over the floor.
Q: But why did he do that? What was his motivation? (“THIS WASN’T”) Was he mad at something you said?
M: I think that was E.T. because he acted more destructive than Michael.
T: He has a split personality. It’s different. (“NO”)
W: There’s Sarah. Sarah is —
M: He’s got all them written down.
T: Ricky, Nicky, Grandpa . . .
Q: Do you see these as aliens (“UH-HUH”) too? (“NO”) Or do you see these as spirits?
W: I see them more as spirits than aliens.
T: You see how he sits there and shakes? He does that all the time.
W: This whole side’s dead now.
T: Well, don’t mention that word around here.
Q: It doesn’t look dead, though.
T: It is.
W: It is.
Q: It’s just dead to you?
W: Yes.
M: It stays cold. It’s not real cold now, but it stays cold . . .
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I WAS UNABLE TO TRANSCRIBE THIS PORTION BECAUSE THE TAPE JAMMED HERE IN MY TAPE RECORDER AFTER I RETURNED HOME FROM OLAHOMA AND ATTEMPTED TO PLAY THIS PORTION FOR MY FRIEND LARRY WHEN I WAS TALKING TO HIM ON THE TELEPHONE.)
(“STRANGE”)
W: And sometimes my old leg gets jumping.
Q: Well, you can move it, at least. (“YOU KNOW — YOU KNOW”)
W: But I’ve got (“PSSST”) to where —
Q: It’s getting better?
W: — as long as I use it, the more I use it the better I’m getting.
T: You still drink a lot of water?
W: (small laugh) When they give me water.
M: They bring ice water twice a day.
T: That’s bull because up in Ada they were always coming in and giving me ice water.
M: You remember that Hale Robinson who (“YAPHET”) was down there? Kathleen Wendell was talking about that over at Edna’s yesterday. Before he died down there in that nursing home she said he was bragging about everything they done. (“BEFORE HE DIED”)
T: Makes you wonder, huh? He was such a good person too.
W: They’ve got a bed in there that I’m sleeping on that was made in 1966. One of these old manuals.
T: Shahalee. You’d think they’d get some new stuff.
W: And the back railing is completely gone off of it so if you don’t watch what you’re doing, you’re going to end up falling onto the floor.
T: Golly.
W: And when you get inside that thing —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SPIRIT BREATHING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE, FOLLOWED BY DISTINCT WAR SOUNDS OVERLAPPING BILL’S SPEECH. AS WITH THE OTHER UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS, WE HEARD NOTHING AT THE TIME OF THE INTERVIEW. MEGAN BEGINS CRYING.)
W: — and get the railing up it’s impossible to get the railing back down again for one person.
T: She fell off the couch? Somebody pushed her off it. Get the wagon. She was like a truck walking in here again. (laughs)
S: She felt like I did when I first got up.
Q: Maybe she was visited by Michael’s mother.
W: Of course, I know you’re not looking for that kind of thing but — (“NO”)
Q: But you know they love babies. (“VERY RARE”) She seems scared. Anyway.
W: There’s a story that’s down in Coalgate. (“DOWN IN COALGATE”) There, in the library in the Coal County Historical Magazine is the story about the life of my Uncle Bill.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MORE BATTLE SOUNDS OVERLAP BILL’S SPEECH.)
(“HEY” “KILL ME”)
W: We have a copy of that here somewhere, I think. (“MIKE” “CUTE” “TAKE IT” “TICKER” “GIVE” “MEGAN” “A MESS”)
Q: Is it related in some way to —
W: Could be. You never know. It goes way back there. My dad was born at Ten Mile Island in Kentucky. (“STILL WONDER SEEING” “CONNECT THE ROPE”)
Q: Well, you know, (“MARK” “GRIN”) one of the (“PSSST”) project’s —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TRY TO CLEAR MY THROAT AND EVENTUALLY COUGH.)
(“PRESSURE” “SOMEONE CAN USE IT” “STOP”)
Q: Carrots always get stuck in my throat for some reason. (“I DON’T UNDERSTAND IT”) One of the stories that had to do with the Bell family in the 19th century — (“YEAH” “YEAH THE”) There was a —
W: That’s what Mama was saying.
Q: — very famous poltergeist case. (“YEAH” “PRESSURING” “BIG TIME” “DON’T DO THAT”) Since there were some Bells (“YOU KNOW” “YEAH” “WHO HAVEN’T SEEN THEIR LIFE INSURANCE MONEY” “MOMMY”)
Y: Papa. (“WHAT”)
Q: What’s your family name again?
W: Mc Wethy. (“BACK UP” “THAT WRITE”)
Q: Is that Scottish ancestry? (“I CAN’T BELIEVE IT”)
W: Indian-Dutch-Irish.
Q: What Indian background is that?
W: As far as I know on my dad’s side (“UM-HUH”) it’s supposed to be Cherokee. I’ve never really researched his side. I tried to research my mother’s side because I definitely know she was Indian. (INDIAN CRY) She was a mad one. (“HIS MOTHER”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN BEGINS CRYING AGAIN AND DOESN’T STOP FOR SOME TIME, MAKING SOME OF THE CONVERSATION HARDER TO HEAR.)
W: . . . and so I knew the tragedy of this side of the family. (“HMM INTERESTING”)
( . . . )
(“OKAY”)
Q: . . . seeing the one called E.T. or known as E.T. (“YOU KNOW”) in terms of throwing things and what-have-you?
W: Have I had any interaction with E.T.? (“YEAH”) Yeah. (“TERRIBLE”)
Q: Did he throw something at you or something?
W: He used to tear up my bed and sheets all the time.
T: (laughs) Yeah, he did.
W: Continually in the bedroom. (“BUT AND”)
Q: Did E.T. take the sheets away?
W: The eggs would come out of this — but not this refrigerator; this is a new one — when we used to have a little model a little bit older than that near the door. (“HELLO” “GREAT” “SARAH CAME BY”) They would come out of the refrigerator, go through this kitchen, go through the living room, make a right, go down a little ways, make another left, then go (“OH GOD”) into the bedroom and then splat on the big mirror in the bedroom.
Q: And how fast would this — (“WOULD THIS GO”) pretty fast or — (“PSST”)
W: I wouldn’t —
Q: Was somebody carrying it or —
W: You could almost make it out (“BOLUA”) in certain instances that it was not happening but (“NO”) it was the biggest egg they got when it was over. And there would be no kids there and no reason for it. (“WELL”)
Q: Well, the path alone (small laugh) — the path alone is very —
W: The path alone.
( . . . )
W: . . . I’ll get lonely in — (“HELL”)
( . . . )
(“FOR RIGHT NOW BUT”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: BILL DEMONSTRATES THE PATH OF THE EGGS AS MEGAN CONTINUES CRYING.)
W: It would make another turn right here.
Q: Oh my God. (“YEAH SEE” “THIS IS”)
W: It would have to make a turn here.
Q: Oh gee.
W: It would make a turn here. And then it would end up splattered all over this big mirror. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Is this the room you were staying in or —
W: Yeah. (“WHO”)
Q: Oh I see. (“NO” “I MEAN INT”) Have you conversed (“NO”) with it?
W: Yeah, I’ve talked to him.
Q: What was the most memorable thing he ever said to you?
W: Well, he gave me this padlock I’ve got with me here.
Q: Right.
W: This one here.
Q: What did he say was the reason for it?
W: He just got me a present, he said.
Q: Is this a bell?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I SEE THE CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT THAT MAXINE TOLD ME ABOUT EARLIER.)
Q: That must be the one that used to hang up in the living room. (“RIGHT”)
W: That’s the one that used to hang up in the hallway in there.
Q: Right.
W: And here’s that Mc Wethy story. Read it —
Q: Oh great.
W: — when you get a chance.
Q: Okay, I’ll read it right now.
W: Alright. (“STOP AND READ IT”)
Q: I was wondering. In these cases — maybe I should ask you real quick. Has the spirit ever struck you?
W: Sometimes I’ll be sound asleep and suddenly it’s just like someone slapped me.
Q: In certain cases, the man of the family (“YEAH”) gets the worst treatment.
W: Yeah.
Q: Do you tell them about everything or do you keep it from them?
W: Do you see this boxed (“RIGHT”) springs and mattress? Time after time, he’s turned that upside down. He’s set them up just like that. ([LOUD] “YEAH”) Without disturbing the cover on it. (“SO” “GOOD DAY”) And that’s how it’s been. You know about the attic? (“THEY’VE BEEN UP IN THE ATTIC”)
Q: Yes, I do know. (“BOY”)
( . . . )
W: . . . when he’d get done playing with them in the attic, they would come sailing back to the floor in the kitchen. (“WELL THAT’S VERY INTERESTING”)
Q: In one poltergeist case, a drum kept incessantly beating in a house. Morning, noon and night, it would beat beat beat.
W: I’d like to take him down to the Hall of Records . . . (“OH”) One particular time I remember him being with us was once when we were out riding around on a Sunday afternoon and we stopped at the country store in Tupelo. All the kids wanted pop so I jokingly said to him, “Okay, what do you want?” And he said, “GET ME A SPRITE.” So I got him one. I brought it back. I set it on the dashboard between the front seat and the back seat. Then, I popped the top on it and set it on the seat there in back. I could hear him slurping that pop down. The first thing you know (“HM HM HM HM”) there’s that much of that pop gone. (“WHAT YOU GET IS A DIAL TONE”)
Q: In other cases that’s happened. People have seen liquids vanish into the air. (“BUT AT LEAST HE”) So he’s nice to you? I mean, it isn’t like — (“IN SOME CASES”) the father gets (“A LOT OF IT”) the worst treatment. (“MISCHIEF”)
W: He’s hit me with a rock sitting down (“YEAH”) at that kitchen table.
Q: But he’s hit other people with rocks though too.
W: Other people have gotten the same thing. (“YEAH”)
Q: So there’s nothing unusual that you have witnessed. (“THROW A ROCK”)
W: He hasn’t really picked on me . . .
Q: That’s good. That’s good.
W: . . . bad guy or anything. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Well, there was one case where — (“HE LIKED ME”) I mean, luckily, this is not one of those cases where the spirit tries to take possession of one of the people in the family. (“RIGHT”) Like in some cases. (“YEAH” “THEY’RE LIKE YEAH”) Like the Bell Witch and the father of the family. (“THE BELLS”) People could see his (BRAY) face quiver and — (“LIKE”) like — (“SOUNDS REAL SHARP” “YOU KNOW”) you know, his shoes kept being pulled off. (“YEAH” “HUSH INSIDE” “WELL HE HAS A BROTHER” “HITLER YOU KNOW” “BASICALLY” “HE HAS” “LET’S GO BATMAN” “THE STATUE” “I KNOW” “YOUR” “YEAH REALLY”)
Y: Mama.
S: Mama’s outside. Come on. (“OH MY GOODNESS”)
( . . . )
(“LIVED IN CAPETOWN”)
Q: I have some things that I’m going to take with me and then bring back after I have some photocopies made.
W: There’s a painting (“FAME”) by a famous artist. For us, anyway. A local artist. (“I THINK CANAL”) Bill Avanzini painted a portrait of this particular person whose story you’ll read and the artist won the first prize blue ribbon for it. He has portraits of my uncle hanging in his art gallery in Coalgate. (“WELL IT’S GOOD THAT YOU KNOW YOU CAN”)
Q: It’s good to keep track of families and ancestry and all that.
W: I did trace down my grandmother and my grandfather on the Mc Wethy side of the family. I found where they both were put to rest. Her maiden name was Missouri Bear so there’s definitely an Indian relationship. He never told Mother that. (“UM-HUH” “TIMES”)
Q: Times sure have changed, haven’t they?
W: Yeah.
Q: That’s great. (“OH I DON’T WANT TO PUT IN SOME” “OUIJA” “PUT SOME” “GOOD” “YEAH”)
( . . . )
(“IT’S INTERESTING WHAT THE LIKE”)
Q: Have you ever seen the furry objects or — well, what are those things?
W: We’ve never been able to ascertain that. They’re fur-like items — what do they call that? (“THING”) I’ve seen movies of it, tapes of it. They call them — well, what is that? They turn into little balls and they eat, (“EAT”) procreate and stuff.
Q: Let me think. (“OH YOU MEAN LIKE IN LIKE”) I remember seeing a “Star Trek” episode that had little Tribbles in it. Was it like that? Those little furry things? (“THE BRITISH”) Did you ever see “Star Trek?”
W: Yeah, it was more like that. (“NO” “I DON’T REMEMBER”) They’re like those furballs and they’re about four to six inches big.
Q: Do you see a head on them?
W: They roll.
Q: They’re just like (“BOAT”) round furballs?
W: Like a furball.
Q: (laughing) God, that’s unusual. (“UM-HUH” “I”) They mentioned a psychic woman once came here and said, “This place doesn’t seem haunted to me.” And then her little girl said, “Look, Mommy, a rat.” And there was no rat. It was one of the furballs. (“YEAH”) So that was sort of ironic. (“BEING THE”)
W: There’s no reason why there should be that magnetic kind of force placed around Twyla and all.
Q: Yeah. (“YOU LEFT IT”) How often does that force come? (“MINUTES”) I mean you don’t always feel it? (“IT’S”)
W: It’s always there. (“IT IS” “OH RIGHT THAT’S RIGHT”) Every time you put a meter near her.
Q: I saw them do that on the TV show tape. In the earlier Bell case some people actually felt a magnetic force (“YEAH”) with their hand.
W: I have seen the back of Maxine’s hair stand straight up.
Q: But why? (“JUST BE FROM THE”) From the force or —
W: The force of it. (“MMM MM”) Then, after a while, her hair would lay back down. It was just like somebody had gone through her hair with their hand. Her hair would be standing straight up.
Q: How often does it throw things? Today while I was here it was throwing things. Does it do that every day? I’m surprised that it hasn’t thrown anything recently. Maybe Twyla has to be here for that to happen.
W: There have been times when weeks have gone by with really nothing much other than weird things happening but we can’t figure out how they’re related. I don’t want to say anything bad about Michael unless I can really feel in my own mind he’s bad.
Q: What do you think of the other entities, though? Do you think it’s just Michael pretending to be other entities? Or do you think there really are other entities?
W: I think there are Michael-related entities and phantoms going on that we don’t really pay that much attention to. Sometimes when he doesn’t get your attention — (“THEN”) things start happening. Did she tell you about the little bites out of the hamburger and all that kind of stuff?
Q: I’m just reading about that right now in this clipping.
W: Our neighbor didn’t want it put in the newspaper or anything. (“BUT”) He once said he was hungry and she made him a tuna sandwich. (“BONE”) We found bites taken out of it.
Q: There’s so much happening. (“BUT IT’S JUST YOU KNOW WITH”) There have even been UFOs. There’s such a wide range of events. (“SAFE MEASURE”)
W: Did she tell you about the time she took Michael or E.T. or whatever he was calling himself that time—I believe it was E.T.—to the ballpark?
Q: She mentioned it. I’m just trying to — (“YEAH I — I — HOW WOULD — E — YEAH”) I’ve heard some of those stories. It’s just amazing. (“YOU KNOW”) They told me there was one time when many spirits visited from the burned-down orphanage or something. (“YEAH” “WHAT”) What do you think is (“THE MO”) the most spooky thing that ever — (“THAT YOU”) that you, yourself, experienced?
W: Alright. I’ll tell you the most spooky thing. To me, the most heart-rending part of it that I can really ascertain. (“WHEN I HAD A”) I had a cross and it had holy water in it. (“OOOH”) A souvenir (“YEAH”) filled from a hole in Wyoming. I had it on a chain, put it around Twyla’s neck. It disappeared. Then we found it in another part of the house — (“UM-HUH”) the chain one place and the heart in another. We picked it up, brought it back in here and put them back together. At the same time this was going on, we were in the kitchen. She went back (“HMMM”) to the bedroom and it disappeared again. So it come back this time and the chain was broken. I took this big safety pin here and just pinned it on her blouse. When they were going with the neighbor, Frieda Severe, toward Dayton it disappeared on her chest with the windows rolled up. There’s no way it could’ve gotten out of the car when it disappeared. (“UM-HUH” “WHAT IT”)
Q: You’ve heard it speak too. (“YOU KNOW” “YEAH BUT” “COKE’S UP”) You know.
W: I’ve been caught in conversations. He’s carried on conversations. (“WHAT — WHAT ARE”)
Q: What are some of the things he said? (“I’M”)
W: Well, we were laying in the bedroom— my bedroom—and one night he started telling me about things that happened to me when I was a child. And then he told Maxine about things that happened to her when she was a child — (“YEAH” “AND SO”)
Q: Like what? Do you remember any specific thing?
W: He told me about a red wagon I had. (“I NEED YOUR HEART” “BRO”)
My brother-in-law J. R. Perry gave it to me way back when I was five years old. (“REALLY” “WELL I WOULD DO WHAT THEY SAY”)
Q: He said, ‘Remember that wagon?’ (“YEAH”) Or did he make any statement about it?
W: He said, “DO YOU REMEMBER THE RED WAGON (“UM-HUH”) RALPH GAVE YOU WHEN YOU WERE A BABY?”
Q: Um-huh.
W: You never know his next speech. I think I was living in Stonewall at the time.
Q: What did you say? You said, “Yeah.”
W: I remember the place. (“RIGHT” “SO” “I”) Like I said, there’s been so much that has happened that I can’t really tie it all in. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: They told me that people have had a lot of conversations with (“YOU KNOW WITH THE”) the spirit.
W: Well, they have. (“IT’S”)
Q: It’s amazing. (“GO GET YOUR HANDS ON”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: BILL AND I GO OUTSIDE WHERE THE OTHERS ARE.)
W: Is Maxine out here?
M: Yeah.
K: Yeah.
T: We’re out here.
S: We’ll get you some chairs.
K: And he went in the bar and they went in there without him. (“SIT” [LOUD] “NO”)
B: And all of them in that bar ran over to the other one.
K: Yeah, they took off.
T: (laughs)
M: They did. (“KUTLEU”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS WORD, PRONOUNCED LIKE ‘KOOTLOO,’ IS AN ACQUAINTANCE OF MINE WHO IS A TURKISH FILM DIRECTOR I MET AT ONE OF MY FRIEND JAMES’S PARTIES.)
( . . . )
M: This combination lock. (“YEAH”) I was going to tell you about that today because it’s right in there. (“UM-HUH”)
Q: Yeah. Bill showed it to me.
M: We went to Coalgate one time and you were in the front seat, weren’t you? And he told Bill, “I’VE GOT YOU SOMETHING, BILL.” And he said — (“WHAT”) “What is it?” (“AND HE”) — or “Where is it?” And he said, “UNDER THE SEAT.” And Bill thumped under the seat and it was a (“HEY”) combination lock.
T: Did you hear him?
K: I heard something but I don’t . . . (“KNOW WHAT”)
M: Sit down over here, Mark.
Q: It seemed like a meow. (“WHAT ELSE IS NEW” “HE WON’T HURT YOU ALL”)
T: It’s Kim’s kids hollering. (“ME AND TWYLA” “MARIJUANA” “REHAB”)
Q: I heard that too. It sounded like the meow again.
T: Yeah. (“YOU SEE THAT” “I KNOW”)
Q: I’m beginning to recognize (“HIS” “THE”) the noise now. So yeah. (“OH YES”)
W: So them owls — the way they were doing that — that one night.
T: There were too many of them. (“WAS WAY OUT”)
M: We told him about that too.
W: It was as if they were talking. (“HOPE SO”) It was just like they were —
T: Are you getting Brenda a chair? (“YEAH”)
W: — various people (“OKAY”) talking back and forth. (“I DON’T EXPECT YOU TO”)
S: I know. (laughs)
T: (laughs) (“YEAH I REMEMBER ABOUT THAT” “MURDER”)
Y: Mom.
T: Want Daddy to bring you one? (“SEE DADDY’S BASIC”)
M: Somebody — (“THE THEATRE”) some Indians out here —
S: We’re oddballs, Twyla.
M: — told us if one of the owls calls your name — (“WHO WHO WHO WHO” “OUHOUHOUHOUHOUHOUH”) that it was good luck.
Q: Oh good.
T: (laughs) (“TELL HER THE” “I SAW TWINS OLDER” “THERE’S PROBABLY SOME OTHER”)
S: I was told that if they called your name that’s bad luck. (YODEL)
Q: Yeah, it means you’re going to (“DIE”) — that’s what I read (“YEAH”) once. (“WELL MAYBE” “I’M GLAD”)
S: No, wait a minute. That was Sioux.
B: He never told us that. (“IT WAS GOOD LUCK”)
S: That was Sioux. (“YEAH”) Of course, they’re my family Indians so they’re cool.
Q: It depends on what culture. (“PIE” “YEAH”)
M: Those Indian guys that night told us it was good luck.
S: Have you ever heard of Styguinea? (“WELL GREAT” “WE GOT A STYGUINEA” “WE TOLD HIM THAT”)
Q: Probably for the Indians it was good luck and for, let’s say, Scottish or Irish people maybe it’s bad luck, depending on where —
T: That’s what we are, isn’t it? Scottish and Irish.
M: We’re Scottish. (“WELL SEE THAT’S WHERE”)
Q: I think the Scottish culture is the most predominant with these types of things. (“LARRY” “MMM” “HMM” “BOY”)
T: I forgot to take you to the cemetery.
Q: Like banshees and things.
T: Why didn’t you tell (“WELL”) me to take you to the cemetery?
Q: Are we going there tomorrow? (“WE WILL” “YEAH” “I MEAN YOU KNOW”)
W: It’s better to do it at night, though.
Q: Well.
M: “Well.” (laughs) I don’t think he wants to go tonight.
T: He wasn’t scared, though.
R: Oh yeah. Let’s go.
T: He really wasn’t scared. (“YEAH I KNOW I”)
Q: But those things don’t scare me and we did have visits. (“HE WAS KNOCKING AROUND”) Where we did go there were visits. (“HE’S SO —”)
T: Yes, but more happens. (” — HAPPY” “YEAH — HH — HH”) Something happens when you’re scared.
S: I love to go. (“AMERICA” “IT’S FUN” “SUCK” “WELL” “I LOVE THIS GAME”)
Q: Maybe tomorrow if you feel like it we’ll go.
T: (laughs) (“I’M SCARED TONIGHT” “BUT I THINK WE’LL BE THERE THEN”)
W: You’ll really enjoy it. (“THEY WON’T”) When you get back, I can guarantee you, Mike, you’ll be a believer.
T: He already is. (“OH I”)
Q: Oh I already am.
R: And every hair on your head will be standing up. (“BUBBLE”)
M: They opened the attic today, he and Twyla, and Twyla was taking pictures and a penny came out of the attic. (“OH”) And then he got hit with a nail.
T: And wasps flew at — (tongue-tied) thru at — (small laugh) (“HE ASKED FLEW IT”)
Q: The wasps. (“IT”)
S: Did you get hit with an egg yet?
Q: I was more scared of the wasp than I was —
W: Big new moon too.
K: That’s a —
T: Well, that’s a — (“FULL MOON”)
K: — full moon.
T: — full moon.
W: It’s a full moon. Any activity tonight will be heavy. (“YEAH ME”)
S: Maybe go in the living room and shut off the lights.
M: Yeah, that’s what we need to do. (“WHAT’S GOING ON”)
T: No, we don’t. (“UH”)
M: Party pooper.
Q: But you know when you hear that mewing noise or meowing noise — (“IT’S ALL LIKE”) I heard it when it was coming from over here somewhere.
W: There are wild cats around here. (“YEAH BUT”)
M: It’s not a wild cat.
Q: It’s not. No.
M: It’s right over there.
B: You can tell the difference. (“OUT IN THE CAR”)
Q: It’s the same one I heard before. So that’s why I — (“IT’S ILLEG” “NO”)
B: I can tell the difference. (“YEAH I CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE”)
Q: I’m beginning — I already (“YEAH”) can tell the difference.
M: Yeah.
Q: But what if it is (MEOW) some kind (“WHAT IF IT”) — do you think it can take the form of an animal (“AND DO”) and make that noise? (“YEAH”)
K: Gee, I don’t know.
B: It’s possible. (“UM-HUH” “HE”)
S: They can do just about anything else.
T: You should hear the similarities (“YOU KNOW”) in that (“YEAH”) Bell case. The poltergeist. That other one — when? (“UH-HUH”) In the 17th century?
Q: Nineteenth. (“OH” “KIM” “AROUND”) Actually, (“EAR[LY]” “NO ME”) early 19th: 1817 — (“OW”) to 1828.
Y: No. (“DON’T WANT TO CRY” “WE’RE BACK FROM THE GRAVE”)
( . . . )
(“YEAH” “YEAH” “HEY”)
S: I said, “Do you have (“OKAY”) a still —”
( . . . )
(“KILL” )
Q: The cellar. (“YEAH” “FOR THE DEAD”) That’s where he (“NO”) said he died. (“MAAAA” “I GUESS” “NO”)
( . . . )
(“JUST LIKE A DUCK”)
M: . . . her and Vicky. He led her and Vicky (“WITH A BILLY GOAT” “WHO I USED TO KNOW AS CINDY”) and said that a woman made love in it. Remember that?
Q: Who said that?
T: Michael.
Q: He said there was a woman buried there?
M: Yeah. Her and Vicky dug the grave up and found a brand new earring.
K: We had the cops here and everything. They took the earring from Mom.
M: Well, they started digging with their hands.
T: Michael — (“SAID IT TO”) that she came from Oklahoma City and some people killed her and buried her there for a while. Then, they came back and got her.
Q: But they never found her?
T: And there was a earring. (“HE HAS NOW”)
B: And it was new like —
K: Yeah, it wasn’t — (“HE WAS ARRESTED” “IT WAS A BLACK”)
M: It was a black square one with gold on it.
Q: This is exactly like something that happened in the Bell Witch case.
M: Again?
Q: The witch said (“HA HA”) that there was a buried treasure out here and after they dug all day and it wasn’t there he laughed. (“AND I SAID”) “I JUST FOOLED YOU. THERE REALLY WASN’T ANY TREASURE THERE.”
T: Oh gosh.
S: That sounds about like him, (“OOOOHHH”) don’t it? (“IT IS”)
W: He pulled the same trick here. (“OH SHIII” “YEAH” “OOHOOHA” “HE TRUE” “THAT MUST BE THE BODY”) He truthfully pulled the same trick here.
Q: Really?
W: There’ve been various places out in the yard over here.
M: “YOU HAVE TO DIG.” (“BUT NOT FOR MONEY”)
B: He said, “LIKE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS.” And then he left. (“BERTHA” “WHITE WHEEL” “WAS — WAS TWYLA” “HELL GO”)
M: He was sitting there laughing at us probably.
Q: Was Twyla around at the time?
K: Yep. (“SHE LIVED HERE” “I MEAN”)
Q: I’m sure some of these things happened too when she wasn’t there.
T: Yeah. (“BUT SHE’S AND I IT’S” )
Q: It’s interesting. I (“DON’T”) — who knows how it works? (“WHO KNOW I KNOW” “HO HO HO GOD”)
S: I think we need to take our friends out to the cemetery.
T: Go ahead baby. (“NO” “MARK”)
M: Twyla, take Mark out —
T: He don’t want to go out there.
M: You don’t?
Q: Well, we’ll be there tomorrow. (“MAYBE IF — IF TOMORROW”) If there’s a compelling reason maybe tomorrow night —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE SOUND OF A HEARTBEAT BEGINS TO BE HEARD, OVERLAPPING, AND BECOMES LOUDER THROUGH THE END OF THIS TAPE SIDE.)
Q: — we’ll go. (“IT’S NOT” “BUT YOU KNOW I — I”) We had lots of experiences when we went out to the bridge and the cellar. (“I MEAN YOU KNOW” “YOU HAVE TO WORK TOWARD IT” “FAITH”)
Q: I heard that noise that you heard.
W: And before it got done it wiped out the whole afflicted tribe. (“HMM”) It’s still not right.
M: You know the little red brake lights in the back of the car?
T: (laughs)
K: He tore that off —
T: To the dash — you know the brake light?
K: — when we were going to the cemetery one night.
T: Remember that time we were going out to Jane’s Bridge and all your stuff in the car started on fire. We got back here and it was just fine — it was like overheating. (“NO”) It was fine.
S: The lady who always takes us home.
T. Shut up. You like to tell everybody the ice cream story.
S: No, I love it. No — the pudding —
M: Yeah, and that’s fun! (“NO”)
S: Twyla took two pudding cups with us in that car and she opened one, didn’t eat all of it and we were riding down the road and all of a sudden that stuff was going everywhere. You couldn’t — everywhere.
M: I had it in my hair. (“EVERYWHERE”) It was ridiculous.
S: And then she opened the other pudding cup and started to eat it.
T: Shut up. (“SHUT UP”)
S: What was funny — because I was driving and you could humor her — I mean you see, hear special effects where someone gets hit or something.
M: Schmack.
S: Schmack. Just like that. You could hear that. And I looked and she had one right on her forehead. He threw that one right in the middle of her forehead.
M: The lid of a cup. (“HUH” “AND IT WAS SO SMALL”)
Q: Do you remember what you were talking about at the time or anything?
T: How about when Lucia went and bought that present?
M: (laughs)
S: Yeah. (laughs) That’s funny.
M: He had it all over the floor.
Q: But why did he do that? What was his motivation? (“THIS WASN’T”) Was he mad at something you said?
M: I think that was E.T. because he acted more destructive than Michael.
T: He has a split personality. It’s different. (“NO”)
W: There’s Sarah. Sarah is —
M: He’s got all them written down.
T: Ricky, Nicky, Grandpa . . .
Q: Do you see these as aliens (“UH-HUH”) too? (“NO”) Or do you see these as spirits?
W: I see them more as spirits than aliens.
T: You see how he sits there and shakes? He does that all the time.
W: This whole side’s dead now.
T: Well, don’t mention that word around here.
Q: It doesn’t look dead, though.
T: It is.
W: It is.
Q: It’s just dead to you?
W: Yes.
M: It stays cold. It’s not real cold now, but it stays cold . . .
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I WAS UNABLE TO TRANSCRIBE THIS PORTION BECAUSE THE TAPE JAMMED HERE IN MY TAPE RECORDER AFTER I RETURNED HOME FROM OLAHOMA AND ATTEMPTED TO PLAY THIS PORTION FOR MY FRIEND LARRY WHEN I WAS TALKING TO HIM ON THE TELEPHONE.)
(“STRANGE”)
W: And sometimes my old leg gets jumping.
Q: Well, you can move it, at least. (“YOU KNOW — YOU KNOW”)
W: But I’ve got (“PSSST”) to where —
Q: It’s getting better?
W: — as long as I use it, the more I use it the better I’m getting.
T: You still drink a lot of water?
W: (small laugh) When they give me water.
M: They bring ice water twice a day.
T: That’s bull because up in Ada they were always coming in and giving me ice water.
M: You remember that Hale Robinson who (“YAPHET”) was down there? Kathleen Wendell was talking about that over at Edna’s yesterday. Before he died down there in that nursing home she said he was bragging about everything they done. (“BEFORE HE DIED”)
T: Makes you wonder, huh? He was such a good person too.
W: They’ve got a bed in there that I’m sleeping on that was made in 1966. One of these old manuals.
T: Shahalee. You’d think they’d get some new stuff.
W: And the back railing is completely gone off of it so if you don’t watch what you’re doing, you’re going to end up falling onto the floor.
T: Golly.
W: And when you get inside that thing —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SPIRIT BREATHING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE, FOLLOWED BY DISTINCT WAR SOUNDS OVERLAPPING BILL’S SPEECH. AS WITH THE OTHER UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS, WE HEARD NOTHING AT THE TIME OF THE INTERVIEW. MEGAN BEGINS CRYING.)
W: — and get the railing up it’s impossible to get the railing back down again for one person.
T: She fell off the couch? Somebody pushed her off it. Get the wagon. She was like a truck walking in here again. (laughs)
S: She felt like I did when I first got up.
Q: Maybe she was visited by Michael’s mother.
W: Of course, I know you’re not looking for that kind of thing but — (“NO”)
Q: But you know they love babies. (“VERY RARE”) She seems scared. Anyway.
W: There’s a story that’s down in Coalgate. (“DOWN IN COALGATE”) There, in the library in the Coal County Historical Magazine is the story about the life of my Uncle Bill.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MORE BATTLE SOUNDS OVERLAP BILL’S SPEECH.)
(“HEY” “KILL ME”)
W: We have a copy of that here somewhere, I think. (“MIKE” “CUTE” “TAKE IT” “TICKER” “GIVE” “MEGAN” “A MESS”)
Q: Is it related in some way to —
W: Could be. You never know. It goes way back there. My dad was born at Ten Mile Island in Kentucky. (“STILL WONDER SEEING” “CONNECT THE ROPE”)
Q: Well, you know, (“MARK” “GRIN”) one of the (“PSSST”) project’s —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TRY TO CLEAR MY THROAT AND EVENTUALLY COUGH.)
(“PRESSURE” “SOMEONE CAN USE IT” “STOP”)
Q: Carrots always get stuck in my throat for some reason. (“I DON’T UNDERSTAND IT”) One of the stories that had to do with the Bell family in the 19th century — (“YEAH” “YEAH THE”) There was a —
W: That’s what Mama was saying.
Q: — very famous poltergeist case. (“YEAH” “PRESSURING” “BIG TIME” “DON’T DO THAT”) Since there were some Bells (“YOU KNOW” “YEAH” “WHO HAVEN’T SEEN THEIR LIFE INSURANCE MONEY” “MOMMY”)
Y: Papa. (“WHAT”)
Q: What’s your family name again?
W: Mc Wethy. (“BACK UP” “THAT WRITE”)
Q: Is that Scottish ancestry? (“I CAN’T BELIEVE IT”)
W: Indian-Dutch-Irish.
Q: What Indian background is that?
W: As far as I know on my dad’s side (“UM-HUH”) it’s supposed to be Cherokee. I’ve never really researched his side. I tried to research my mother’s side because I definitely know she was Indian. (INDIAN CRY) She was a mad one. (“HIS MOTHER”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN BEGINS CRYING AGAIN AND DOESN’T STOP FOR SOME TIME, MAKING SOME OF THE CONVERSATION HARDER TO HEAR.)
W: . . . and so I knew the tragedy of this side of the family. (“HMM INTERESTING”)
( . . . )
(“OKAY”)
Q: . . . seeing the one called E.T. or known as E.T. (“YOU KNOW”) in terms of throwing things and what-have-you?
W: Have I had any interaction with E.T.? (“YEAH”) Yeah. (“TERRIBLE”)
Q: Did he throw something at you or something?
W: He used to tear up my bed and sheets all the time.
T: (laughs) Yeah, he did.
W: Continually in the bedroom. (“BUT AND”)
Q: Did E.T. take the sheets away?
W: The eggs would come out of this — but not this refrigerator; this is a new one — when we used to have a little model a little bit older than that near the door. (“HELLO” “GREAT” “SARAH CAME BY”) They would come out of the refrigerator, go through this kitchen, go through the living room, make a right, go down a little ways, make another left, then go (“OH GOD”) into the bedroom and then splat on the big mirror in the bedroom.
Q: And how fast would this — (“WOULD THIS GO”) pretty fast or — (“PSST”)
W: I wouldn’t —
Q: Was somebody carrying it or —
W: You could almost make it out (“BOLUA”) in certain instances that it was not happening but (“NO”) it was the biggest egg they got when it was over. And there would be no kids there and no reason for it. (“WELL”)
Q: Well, the path alone (small laugh) — the path alone is very —
W: The path alone.
( . . . )
W: . . . I’ll get lonely in — (“HELL”)
( . . . )
(“FOR RIGHT NOW BUT”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: BILL DEMONSTRATES THE PATH OF THE EGGS AS MEGAN CONTINUES CRYING.)
W: It would make another turn right here.
Q: Oh my God. (“YEAH SEE” “THIS IS”)
W: It would have to make a turn here.
Q: Oh gee.
W: It would make a turn here. And then it would end up splattered all over this big mirror. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Is this the room you were staying in or —
W: Yeah. (“WHO”)
Q: Oh I see. (“NO” “I MEAN INT”) Have you conversed (“NO”) with it?
W: Yeah, I’ve talked to him.
Q: What was the most memorable thing he ever said to you?
W: Well, he gave me this padlock I’ve got with me here.
Q: Right.
W: This one here.
Q: What did he say was the reason for it?
W: He just got me a present, he said.
Q: Is this a bell?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I SEE THE CHRISTMAS ORNAMENT THAT MAXINE TOLD ME ABOUT EARLIER.)
Q: That must be the one that used to hang up in the living room. (“RIGHT”)
W: That’s the one that used to hang up in the hallway in there.
Q: Right.
W: And here’s that Mc Wethy story. Read it —
Q: Oh great.
W: — when you get a chance.
Q: Okay, I’ll read it right now.
W: Alright. (“STOP AND READ IT”)
Q: I was wondering. In these cases — maybe I should ask you real quick. Has the spirit ever struck you?
W: Sometimes I’ll be sound asleep and suddenly it’s just like someone slapped me.
Q: In certain cases, the man of the family (“YEAH”) gets the worst treatment.
W: Yeah.
Q: Do you tell them about everything or do you keep it from them?
W: Do you see this boxed (“RIGHT”) springs and mattress? Time after time, he’s turned that upside down. He’s set them up just like that. ([LOUD] “YEAH”) Without disturbing the cover on it. (“SO” “GOOD DAY”) And that’s how it’s been. You know about the attic? (“THEY’VE BEEN UP IN THE ATTIC”)
Q: Yes, I do know. (“BOY”)
( . . . )
W: . . . when he’d get done playing with them in the attic, they would come sailing back to the floor in the kitchen. (“WELL THAT’S VERY INTERESTING”)
Q: In one poltergeist case, a drum kept incessantly beating in a house. Morning, noon and night, it would beat beat beat.
W: I’d like to take him down to the Hall of Records . . . (“OH”) One particular time I remember him being with us was once when we were out riding around on a Sunday afternoon and we stopped at the country store in Tupelo. All the kids wanted pop so I jokingly said to him, “Okay, what do you want?” And he said, “GET ME A SPRITE.” So I got him one. I brought it back. I set it on the dashboard between the front seat and the back seat. Then, I popped the top on it and set it on the seat there in back. I could hear him slurping that pop down. The first thing you know (“HM HM HM HM”) there’s that much of that pop gone. (“WHAT YOU GET IS A DIAL TONE”)
Q: In other cases that’s happened. People have seen liquids vanish into the air. (“BUT AT LEAST HE”) So he’s nice to you? I mean, it isn’t like — (“IN SOME CASES”) the father gets (“A LOT OF IT”) the worst treatment. (“MISCHIEF”)
W: He’s hit me with a rock sitting down (“YEAH”) at that kitchen table.
Q: But he’s hit other people with rocks though too.
W: Other people have gotten the same thing. (“YEAH”)
Q: So there’s nothing unusual that you have witnessed. (“THROW A ROCK”)
W: He hasn’t really picked on me . . .
Q: That’s good. That’s good.
W: . . . bad guy or anything. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Well, there was one case where — (“HE LIKED ME”) I mean, luckily, this is not one of those cases where the spirit tries to take possession of one of the people in the family. (“RIGHT”) Like in some cases. (“YEAH” “THEY’RE LIKE YEAH”) Like the Bell Witch and the father of the family. (“THE BELLS”) People could see his (BRAY) face quiver and — (“LIKE”) like — (“SOUNDS REAL SHARP” “YOU KNOW”) you know, his shoes kept being pulled off. (“YEAH” “HUSH INSIDE” “WELL HE HAS A BROTHER” “HITLER YOU KNOW” “BASICALLY” “HE HAS” “LET’S GO BATMAN” “THE STATUE” “I KNOW” “YOUR” “YEAH REALLY”)
Y: Mama.
S: Mama’s outside. Come on. (“OH MY GOODNESS”)
( . . . )
(“LIVED IN CAPETOWN”)
Q: I have some things that I’m going to take with me and then bring back after I have some photocopies made.
W: There’s a painting (“FAME”) by a famous artist. For us, anyway. A local artist. (“I THINK CANAL”) Bill Avanzini painted a portrait of this particular person whose story you’ll read and the artist won the first prize blue ribbon for it. He has portraits of my uncle hanging in his art gallery in Coalgate. (“WELL IT’S GOOD THAT YOU KNOW YOU CAN”)
Q: It’s good to keep track of families and ancestry and all that.
W: I did trace down my grandmother and my grandfather on the Mc Wethy side of the family. I found where they both were put to rest. Her maiden name was Missouri Bear so there’s definitely an Indian relationship. He never told Mother that. (“UM-HUH” “TIMES”)
Q: Times sure have changed, haven’t they?
W: Yeah.
Q: That’s great. (“OH I DON’T WANT TO PUT IN SOME” “OUIJA” “PUT SOME” “GOOD” “YEAH”)
( . . . )
(“IT’S INTERESTING WHAT THE LIKE”)
Q: Have you ever seen the furry objects or — well, what are those things?
W: We’ve never been able to ascertain that. They’re fur-like items — what do they call that? (“THING”) I’ve seen movies of it, tapes of it. They call them — well, what is that? They turn into little balls and they eat, (“EAT”) procreate and stuff.
Q: Let me think. (“OH YOU MEAN LIKE IN LIKE”) I remember seeing a “Star Trek” episode that had little Tribbles in it. Was it like that? Those little furry things? (“THE BRITISH”) Did you ever see “Star Trek?”
W: Yeah, it was more like that. (“NO” “I DON’T REMEMBER”) They’re like those furballs and they’re about four to six inches big.
Q: Do you see a head on them?
W: They roll.
Q: They’re just like (“BOAT”) round furballs?
W: Like a furball.
Q: (laughing) God, that’s unusual. (“UM-HUH” “I”) They mentioned a psychic woman once came here and said, “This place doesn’t seem haunted to me.” And then her little girl said, “Look, Mommy, a rat.” And there was no rat. It was one of the furballs. (“YEAH”) So that was sort of ironic. (“BEING THE”)
W: There’s no reason why there should be that magnetic kind of force placed around Twyla and all.
Q: Yeah. (“YOU LEFT IT”) How often does that force come? (“MINUTES”) I mean you don’t always feel it? (“IT’S”)
W: It’s always there. (“IT IS” “OH RIGHT THAT’S RIGHT”) Every time you put a meter near her.
Q: I saw them do that on the TV show tape. In the earlier Bell case some people actually felt a magnetic force (“YEAH”) with their hand.
W: I have seen the back of Maxine’s hair stand straight up.
Q: But why? (“JUST BE FROM THE”) From the force or —
W: The force of it. (“MMM MM”) Then, after a while, her hair would lay back down. It was just like somebody had gone through her hair with their hand. Her hair would be standing straight up.
Q: How often does it throw things? Today while I was here it was throwing things. Does it do that every day? I’m surprised that it hasn’t thrown anything recently. Maybe Twyla has to be here for that to happen.
W: There have been times when weeks have gone by with really nothing much other than weird things happening but we can’t figure out how they’re related. I don’t want to say anything bad about Michael unless I can really feel in my own mind he’s bad.
Q: What do you think of the other entities, though? Do you think it’s just Michael pretending to be other entities? Or do you think there really are other entities?
W: I think there are Michael-related entities and phantoms going on that we don’t really pay that much attention to. Sometimes when he doesn’t get your attention — (“THEN”) things start happening. Did she tell you about the little bites out of the hamburger and all that kind of stuff?
Q: I’m just reading about that right now in this clipping.
W: Our neighbor didn’t want it put in the newspaper or anything. (“BUT”) He once said he was hungry and she made him a tuna sandwich. (“BONE”) We found bites taken out of it.
Q: There’s so much happening. (“BUT IT’S JUST YOU KNOW WITH”) There have even been UFOs. There’s such a wide range of events. (“SAFE MEASURE”)
W: Did she tell you about the time she took Michael or E.T. or whatever he was calling himself that time—I believe it was E.T.—to the ballpark?
Q: She mentioned it. I’m just trying to — (“YEAH I — I — HOW WOULD — E — YEAH”) I’ve heard some of those stories. It’s just amazing. (“YOU KNOW”) They told me there was one time when many spirits visited from the burned-down orphanage or something. (“YEAH” “WHAT”) What do you think is (“THE MO”) the most spooky thing that ever — (“THAT YOU”) that you, yourself, experienced?
W: Alright. I’ll tell you the most spooky thing. To me, the most heart-rending part of it that I can really ascertain. (“WHEN I HAD A”) I had a cross and it had holy water in it. (“OOOH”) A souvenir (“YEAH”) filled from a hole in Wyoming. I had it on a chain, put it around Twyla’s neck. It disappeared. Then we found it in another part of the house — (“UM-HUH”) the chain one place and the heart in another. We picked it up, brought it back in here and put them back together. At the same time this was going on, we were in the kitchen. She went back (“HMMM”) to the bedroom and it disappeared again. So it come back this time and the chain was broken. I took this big safety pin here and just pinned it on her blouse. When they were going with the neighbor, Frieda Severe, toward Dayton it disappeared on her chest with the windows rolled up. There’s no way it could’ve gotten out of the car when it disappeared. (“UM-HUH” “WHAT IT”)
Q: You’ve heard it speak too. (“YOU KNOW” “YEAH BUT” “COKE’S UP”) You know.
W: I’ve been caught in conversations. He’s carried on conversations. (“WHAT — WHAT ARE”)
Q: What are some of the things he said? (“I’M”)
W: Well, we were laying in the bedroom— my bedroom—and one night he started telling me about things that happened to me when I was a child. And then he told Maxine about things that happened to her when she was a child — (“YEAH” “AND SO”)
Q: Like what? Do you remember any specific thing?
W: He told me about a red wagon I had. (“I NEED YOUR HEART” “BRO”)
My brother-in-law J. R. Perry gave it to me way back when I was five years old. (“REALLY” “WELL I WOULD DO WHAT THEY SAY”)
Q: He said, ‘Remember that wagon?’ (“YEAH”) Or did he make any statement about it?
W: He said, “DO YOU REMEMBER THE RED WAGON (“UM-HUH”) RALPH GAVE YOU WHEN YOU WERE A BABY?”
Q: Um-huh.
W: You never know his next speech. I think I was living in Stonewall at the time.
Q: What did you say? You said, “Yeah.”
W: I remember the place. (“RIGHT” “SO” “I”) Like I said, there’s been so much that has happened that I can’t really tie it all in. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: They told me that people have had a lot of conversations with (“YOU KNOW WITH THE”) the spirit.
W: Well, they have. (“IT’S”)
Q: It’s amazing. (“GO GET YOUR HANDS ON”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: BILL AND I GO OUTSIDE WHERE THE OTHERS ARE.)
W: Is Maxine out here?
M: Yeah.
K: Yeah.
T: We’re out here.
S: We’ll get you some chairs.
K: And he went in the bar and they went in there without him. (“SIT” [LOUD] “NO”)
B: And all of them in that bar ran over to the other one.
K: Yeah, they took off.
T: (laughs)
M: They did. (“KUTLEU”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS WORD, PRONOUNCED LIKE ‘KOOTLOO,’ IS AN ACQUAINTANCE OF MINE WHO IS A TURKISH FILM DIRECTOR I MET AT ONE OF MY FRIEND JAMES’S PARTIES.)
( . . . )
M: This combination lock. (“YEAH”) I was going to tell you about that today because it’s right in there. (“UM-HUH”)
Q: Yeah. Bill showed it to me.
M: We went to Coalgate one time and you were in the front seat, weren’t you? And he told Bill, “I’VE GOT YOU SOMETHING, BILL.” And he said — (“WHAT”) “What is it?” (“AND HE”) — or “Where is it?” And he said, “UNDER THE SEAT.” And Bill thumped under the seat and it was a (“HEY”) combination lock.
T: Did you hear him?
K: I heard something but I don’t . . . (“KNOW WHAT”)
M: Sit down over here, Mark.
Q: It seemed like a meow. (“WHAT ELSE IS NEW” “HE WON’T HURT YOU ALL”)
T: It’s Kim’s kids hollering. (“ME AND TWYLA” “MARIJUANA” “REHAB”)
Q: I heard that too. It sounded like the meow again.
T: Yeah. (“YOU SEE THAT” “I KNOW”)
Q: I’m beginning to recognize (“HIS” “THE”) the noise now. So yeah. (“OH YES”)
W: So them owls — the way they were doing that — that one night.
T: There were too many of them. (“WAS WAY OUT”)
M: We told him about that too.
W: It was as if they were talking. (“HOPE SO”) It was just like they were —
T: Are you getting Brenda a chair? (“YEAH”)
W: — various people (“OKAY”) talking back and forth. (“I DON’T EXPECT YOU TO”)
S: I know. (laughs)
T: (laughs) (“YEAH I REMEMBER ABOUT THAT” “MURDER”)
Y: Mom.
T: Want Daddy to bring you one? (“SEE DADDY’S BASIC”)
M: Somebody — (“THE THEATRE”) some Indians out here —
S: We’re oddballs, Twyla.
M: — told us if one of the owls calls your name — (“WHO WHO WHO WHO” “OUHOUHOUHOUHOUHOUH”) that it was good luck.
Q: Oh good.
T: (laughs) (“TELL HER THE” “I SAW TWINS OLDER” “THERE’S PROBABLY SOME OTHER”)
S: I was told that if they called your name that’s bad luck. (YODEL)
Q: Yeah, it means you’re going to (“DIE”) — that’s what I read (“YEAH”) once. (“WELL MAYBE” “I’M GLAD”)
S: No, wait a minute. That was Sioux.
B: He never told us that. (“IT WAS GOOD LUCK”)
S: That was Sioux. (“YEAH”) Of course, they’re my family Indians so they’re cool.
Q: It depends on what culture. (“PIE” “YEAH”)
M: Those Indian guys that night told us it was good luck.
S: Have you ever heard of Styguinea? (“WELL GREAT” “WE GOT A STYGUINEA” “WE TOLD HIM THAT”)
Q: Probably for the Indians it was good luck and for, let’s say, Scottish or Irish people maybe it’s bad luck, depending on where —
T: That’s what we are, isn’t it? Scottish and Irish.
M: We’re Scottish. (“WELL SEE THAT’S WHERE”)
Q: I think the Scottish culture is the most predominant with these types of things. (“LARRY” “MMM” “HMM” “BOY”)
T: I forgot to take you to the cemetery.
Q: Like banshees and things.
T: Why didn’t you tell (“WELL”) me to take you to the cemetery?
Q: Are we going there tomorrow? (“WE WILL” “YEAH” “I MEAN YOU KNOW”)
W: It’s better to do it at night, though.
Q: Well.
M: “Well.” (laughs) I don’t think he wants to go tonight.
T: He wasn’t scared, though.
R: Oh yeah. Let’s go.
T: He really wasn’t scared. (“YEAH I KNOW I”)
Q: But those things don’t scare me and we did have visits. (“HE WAS KNOCKING AROUND”) Where we did go there were visits. (“HE’S SO —”)
T: Yes, but more happens. (” — HAPPY” “YEAH — HH — HH”) Something happens when you’re scared.
S: I love to go. (“AMERICA” “IT’S FUN” “SUCK” “WELL” “I LOVE THIS GAME”)
Q: Maybe tomorrow if you feel like it we’ll go.
T: (laughs) (“I’M SCARED TONIGHT” “BUT I THINK WE’LL BE THERE THEN”)
W: You’ll really enjoy it. (“THEY WON’T”) When you get back, I can guarantee you, Mike, you’ll be a believer.
T: He already is. (“OH I”)
Q: Oh I already am.
R: And every hair on your head will be standing up. (“BUBBLE”)
M: They opened the attic today, he and Twyla, and Twyla was taking pictures and a penny came out of the attic. (“OH”) And then he got hit with a nail.
T: And wasps flew at — (tongue-tied) thru at — (small laugh) (“HE ASKED FLEW IT”)
Q: The wasps. (“IT”)
S: Did you get hit with an egg yet?
Q: I was more scared of the wasp than I was —
W: Big new moon too.
K: That’s a —
T: Well, that’s a — (“FULL MOON”)
K: — full moon.
T: — full moon.
W: It’s a full moon. Any activity tonight will be heavy. (“YEAH ME”)
S: Maybe go in the living room and shut off the lights.
M: Yeah, that’s what we need to do. (“WHAT’S GOING ON”)
T: No, we don’t. (“UH”)
M: Party pooper.
Q: But you know when you hear that mewing noise or meowing noise — (“IT’S ALL LIKE”) I heard it when it was coming from over here somewhere.
W: There are wild cats around here. (“YEAH BUT”)
M: It’s not a wild cat.
Q: It’s not. No.
M: It’s right over there.
B: You can tell the difference. (“OUT IN THE CAR”)
Q: It’s the same one I heard before. So that’s why I — (“IT’S ILLEG” “NO”)
B: I can tell the difference. (“YEAH I CAN TELL THE DIFFERENCE”)
Q: I’m beginning — I already (“YEAH”) can tell the difference.
M: Yeah.
Q: But what if it is (MEOW) some kind (“WHAT IF IT”) — do you think it can take the form of an animal (“AND DO”) and make that noise? (“YEAH”)
K: Gee, I don’t know.
B: It’s possible. (“UM-HUH” “HE”)
S: They can do just about anything else.
T: You should hear the similarities (“YOU KNOW”) in that (“YEAH”) Bell case. The poltergeist. That other one — when? (“UH-HUH”) In the 17th century?
Q: Nineteenth. (“OH” “KIM” “AROUND”) Actually, (“EAR[LY]” “NO ME”) early 19th: 1817 — (“OW”) to 1828.
Y: No. (“DON’T WANT TO CRY” “WE’RE BACK FROM THE GRAVE”)
( . . . )
(“YEAH” “YEAH” “HEY”)
S: I said, “Do you have (“OKAY”) a still —”
( . . . )
(“KILL” )
Q: The cellar. (“YEAH” “FOR THE DEAD”) That’s where he (“NO”) said he died. (“MAAAA” “I GUESS” “NO”)
( . . . )
(“JUST LIKE A DUCK”)
M: . . . her and Vicky. He led her and Vicky (“WITH A BILLY GOAT” “WHO I USED TO KNOW AS CINDY”) and said that a woman made love in it. Remember that?
Q: Who said that?
T: Michael.
Q: He said there was a woman buried there?
M: Yeah. Her and Vicky dug the grave up and found a brand new earring.
K: We had the cops here and everything. They took the earring from Mom.
M: Well, they started digging with their hands.
T: Michael — (“SAID IT TO”) that she came from Oklahoma City and some people killed her and buried her there for a while. Then, they came back and got her.
Q: But they never found her?
T: And there was a earring. (“HE HAS NOW”)
B: And it was new like —
K: Yeah, it wasn’t — (“HE WAS ARRESTED” “IT WAS A BLACK”)
M: It was a black square one with gold on it.
Q: This is exactly like something that happened in the Bell Witch case.
M: Again?
Q: The witch said (“HA HA”) that there was a buried treasure out here and after they dug all day and it wasn’t there he laughed. (“AND I SAID”) “I JUST FOOLED YOU. THERE REALLY WASN’T ANY TREASURE THERE.”
T: Oh gosh.
S: That sounds about like him, (“OOOOHHH”) don’t it? (“IT IS”)
W: He pulled the same trick here. (“OH SHIII” “YEAH” “OOHOOHA” “HE TRUE” “THAT MUST BE THE BODY”) He truthfully pulled the same trick here.
Q: Really?
W: There’ve been various places out in the yard over here.
M: “YOU HAVE TO DIG.” (“BUT NOT FOR MONEY”)
B: He said, “LIKE A BUNCH OF IDIOTS.” And then he left. (“BERTHA” “WHITE WHEEL” “WAS — WAS TWYLA” “HELL GO”)
M: He was sitting there laughing at us probably.
Q: Was Twyla around at the time?
K: Yep. (“SHE LIVED HERE” “I MEAN”)
Q: I’m sure some of these things happened too when she wasn’t there.
T: Yeah. (“BUT SHE’S AND I IT’S” )
Q: It’s interesting. I (“DON’T”) — who knows how it works? (“WHO KNOW I KNOW” “HO HO HO GOD”)
S: I think we need to take our friends out to the cemetery.
T: Go ahead baby. (“NO” “MARK”)
M: Twyla, take Mark out —
T: He don’t want to go out there.
M: You don’t?
Q: Well, we’ll be there tomorrow. (“MAYBE IF — IF TOMORROW”) If there’s a compelling reason maybe tomorrow night —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE SOUND OF A HEARTBEAT BEGINS TO BE HEARD, OVERLAPPING, AND BECOMES LOUDER THROUGH THE END OF THIS TAPE SIDE.)
Q: — we’ll go. (“IT’S NOT” “BUT YOU KNOW I — I”) We had lots of experiences when we went out to the bridge and the cellar. (“I MEAN YOU KNOW” “YOU HAVE TO WORK TOWARD IT” “FAITH”)
