HYPNOTHERAPY SESSION (JAN. 15, 1996) —
TAPE #49, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell Bell
V: David Botsford (clinical hypnotherapist)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SOME TAPES WERE TRANSCRIBED OUT OF SEQUENCE AT VARIOUS TIMES AS THEY CONTAINED COMMENTARY I WANTED TO INCLUDE IN MY MANUSCRIPT WHEN I BEGAN MAKING SUBMISSIONS. THESE TAPES ARE #49, 50, 54, 56 [SIDE #1], 121 AND 133 [SIDE #2]. THE TIMING DETERMINES WHICH SPELLING WAS USED FOR THE NAME OF ‘MIGHAEL’ OR ‘MICHAEL.’)
Q: I never really plan (“YEAH”) what I’m going to say after I turn on the tape recorder. Obviously, you can see there (“EHH”) are about 1,200 pages. (“YOU KNOW”) Since I came back from Oklahoma I’ve been (“TRAN”) transcribing and taping interviews.
V: Ummm.
Q: So (“THE”) you really can’t plan. (“GO” “I’D SAY”) So (“I THINK” “WELL”) the usual — okay. On the way over I (“TURN”) turned on the radio and the songs were “Tears in Heaven” by Eric Clapton. (“UM-HUH”) Um-huh. And “From a Distance” sung by Bette Midler. And it was funny. rom my unique perspective — (“WHICH”) is a humorous perspective usually. As I heard “From a Distance” I was thinking, “Honey, you wish.”
V: (laughs) (“GOOD”)
Q: Because (“NO”) we’re, like, inside God and He is watching everything we do individually. And people say that but they don’t believe it. (“BUT YOU KNOW IF”) If they did they wouldn’t do some of the naughty things that they do. (“CORRECT”) Right?
V: Exactly. (“EHH”)
Q: Today I was reading in the Sunday newspaper an article about the director of (“GOOD”) “On the Waterfront.” What’s his name again?
V: Kazan.
Q: Right. Elia Kazan. And just because he revealed some names to the House Un-American Activities Committee (“HE”) people aren’t giving him awards and accolades for his work. So basically they’re judging him, (“I MEAN”) which is one of the themes in my book — that we really can’t judge others. He said he was doing what he felt was his patriotic duty. And if everyone had done that, there wouldn’t have been a big problem. Maybe he’s right. You can’t rewrite history but who am I and who are they to condemn him for doing something that he believed in? Right? He didn’t break any laws.
V: Of course. (“YEAH”)
Q: So that was interesting and — oh, I went to see “Martha,” (“YEAH”) the Fassbinder film (“OH GOOD”) at the American Cinematheque screening. (“IT WAS”) Well, see, one of the themes of my book is that you can find symbols and parallels — and (“IT”) I don’t even know what the right word is — toward the second coming.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WHILE I WAS TRANSCRIBING THIS TAPE [the typed word] symbols APPEARED ON MY COMPUTER SCREEN.)
(“YOU KNOW” “OH WHAT”)
Q: Whatever you want to call — I don’t think the second coming is the right description either. It’s just basically ‘Son of Man’ — God proving Himself through me.
V: Ummm.
Q: So, anyway, this movie, “Martha” — (“UMMM”) I was (“SHHHIT”) talking to my friends a little bit but they didn’t really want me to interview them anymore so it’s very hard to interview them. It’s very sad when you go to a dinner party and (“LIKE”) one of your best friends says, “Oh, I don’t want to sit next to him. I know him.” (“I MEAN”) It’s because he’s freaked by the phenomena. (“BUT SOME”) But there are always people who aren’t afraid. So it was fine. (“BUT”) It just is funny. You would think he would want to be on my good side.
V: (small laugh)
Q: I don’t know. It’s bizarre. (“I MEAN”) It’s a — (“MARTHA”) okay. The film — I mean it’s hard to put into words. My relationship with Michael who is like God’s alter-ego (“UM-HUH”) or maybe the archangel Michael. I haven’t really figured that out. (“BUT”) Because (“YOU KNOW IT”) I know that God works through people’s subconscious mind, which includes the angels and aliens and what-have-you.
V: Ummm.
Q: But I’m not quite sure who is the Entity who does things to me like kisses me in dreams (“UM-HUH”) and floats feathers down to my friends. (“UH-HUH” “AND”) And things like that. Today, for example, I was going to get (“THESE”) this book copied for you and other people. And my jacket fell down. So I knew to put on my jacket. (“WELL I”) Actually it took longer than I thought so it was dark by the time I got my copies. (“SO”) Thank you, Michael. I mean people don’t understand it really is like a marriage. (“YOU KNOW IT REALLY IS”) And that’s why this movie, “Martha” — it’s basically about (“THE”) a woman named Martha, who’s like a virgin living with her alcoholic mother and meets the love of her life in a chance meeting. The way it’s so cinematically presented, the meeting comes across as this fateful encounter. (“WHICH”) It reminded me of when I was in Oklahoma and I found this Entity who’d been waiting for me. You know? (“EH IH” “SO”) For this movie (“AND PLUS” “MM MM”) Margit Carstensen played Martha and, of course, both her name and the character’s name begin with M — A — R. And my name begins with M — A — R. Mark. And the film just captured the emotional truth (“CORRECT”) of my relationship with Michael far better than I could ever express in words. Everything was planned — like there’s a big lion (“CORRECT”) on the stairway.
V: Umm. (“HUH”)
Q: There were pictures of Jesus in the background. There’s a last supper frame. (“OR”) What looks like the last supper. Just to show you how completely uncanny Michael can be — (“I WAS JUST”) earlier I had been very emotional about my relationship with Michael. Sometimes I get that way. It’s like “Why did he choose me (“UM-HUH”) unless this whole thing is a figment of my imagination.” (“NO”)
V: (laughs)
Q: I mean it’s like ‘boo-hoo’ — (“HUA”) and I cry, you know. And I read a poem once where basically it said, “Your tears terrorize me.” (“OOOHHHH”) So He finds ways to express what He’s feeling. (“TOO”) Because the boundaries of time and space mean nothing to Him. (“OOOHHHH”) So this movie is a German TV movie made in 1973 but it expresses the emotional truth of our own relationship. (“OOOHHHH”) And, in fact, (“SO”) during the movie I was starting to remember back (“SOME”) my emotions from the day and I started crying inside the theatre. (“UM-HUH” “AT”) At that exact time the couple in the movie entered a house and there was a crying statue. And my friend James who was sitting next to me saw this crying statue, turned to me, saw me crying just like the statue, and it was a very weird moment. I mean it’s like God is always making movies for Himself and He does have — (“A”) bizarre sense of humor.
V: Ummm.
Q: I mean Depeche Mode calls it a sick sense of humor but that’s just because it’s hard for us to understand. (“UM-HUH”) So, basically, (“BUT”) what my book is doing is recommending other sources as background sources and materials to better express the truth of my book. Throughout history, there have always been certain people that God has chosen to give voice to certain truths. Like Shakespeare, Dickens, Emily Dickinson and people like that. I think Laurie Anderson is the most recent one who He really did a lot of His work through. (“NO”) So I would recommend her CDS and albums to people (“UM-HUH”) because there’s a lot of cryptograms and a lot of interesting biblical — (“WHEN DO YOU”) are you familiar with her work? (“OH REALLY”)
V: Yes.
Q: Did you hear her new album “Bright Red”?
V: I’ve heard of it. I haven’t actually heard it yet.
Q: Well, for example, there’s one time where she talks about “the hairy ones will dance there.” Well, it’s a very interesting portion of the Bible because if you check (“YOU KNOW”) each different translation. It’s something (“DIFF”) totally different in each translation. And there are many cryptograms throughout her works because God, working through her subconscious mind, is revealing certain truths. Like He is all the time in pop songs, in poems, (“CORRECT”) in books, in movies.
V: Ummm.
Q: And then He basically takes people to certain movies and books that He thinks spiritually they need to see or read. (“SEE”) Everything is planned in advance. So people won’t all decide to go to the same restaurant at the same time. (“YOU KNOW IT’S”) Everything is carefully planned. However, emotionally, it hasn’t been experienced yet. So it’s still very interest (“TING”) — for Him, obviously. I mean there are some unplanned things, I guess. (“THE THING” “IT’S HARD TO”) It’s hard for me to understand that aspect of it. (“BUT”) It would seem to me that everything was pretty well planned in order for me to cry at the same time you see a crying statue at the screening of a movie — (“OH”) actually a TV movie that hasn’t even been released in the United States before. (“OOOHH” “TOO” “AND PLUS LIKE”) See, that means everything that happens to you is carefully planned. Like, for example, today I went to Bookstar because it took longer to get my photocopies back than I planned. And so I just bought a few sale books. I bought — let’s see. What is this? The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered by — the sale sticker is covering up their names. Oh. Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise. And it says “The First Complete Translation and (“THEIR) Interpretation of 50 Key Documents Withheld for Over 35 Years.” So I had to get this. I glanced through and I did see some mentions of Jesus which surprised me —
V: Mmmmmm.
Q: — because I had heard (“THAT”) that there had been no mention of him in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I didn’t really see any mention here either but there was one interesting parallel and that concerned Judas. Or Thomas. One of them. And they were talking about a twin. And also about (“HIS” “A BRO”) a mention of either a brother and/or twin as one of the disciples.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 261 AS FOLLOWS.)
Q: I never really plan (“YEAH”) what I’m going to say after I turn on the tape recorder. Obviously, you can see there (“EHH”) are about 1,200 pages. (“YOU KNOW”) Since I came back from Oklahoma I’ve been (“TRAN”) transcribing and taping interviews.
V: Ummm.
Q: So (“THE”) you really can’t plan. (“GO” “I’D SAY”) So (“I THINK” “WELL”) the usual — okay. On the way over I (“TURN”) turned on the radio and the songs were “Tears in Heaven” by Eric Clapton. (“UM-HUH”) Um-huh. And “From a Distance” sung by Bette Midler. And it was funny. rom my unique perspective — (“WHICH”) is a humorous perspective usually. As I heard “From a Distance” I was thinking, “Honey, you wish.”
V: (laughs) (“GOOD”)
Q: Because (“NO”) we’re, like, inside God and He is watching everything we do individually. And people say that but they don’t believe it. (“BUT YOU KNOW IF”) If they did they wouldn’t do some of the naughty things that they do. (“CORRECT”) Right?
V: Exactly. (“EHH”)
Q: Today I was reading in the Sunday newspaper an article about the director of (“GOOD”) “On the Waterfront.” What’s his name again?
V: Kazan.
Q: Right. Elia Kazan. And just because he revealed some names to the House Un-American Activities Committee (“HE”) people aren’t giving him awards and accolades for his work. So basically they’re judging him, (“I MEAN”) which is one of the themes in my book — that we really can’t judge others. He said he was doing what he felt was his patriotic duty. And if everyone had done that, there wouldn’t have been a big problem. Maybe he’s right. You can’t rewrite history but who am I and who are they to condemn him for doing something that he believed in? Right? He didn’t break any laws.
V: Of course. (“YEAH”)
Q: So that was interesting and — oh, I went to see “Martha,” (“YEAH”) the Fassbinder film (“OH GOOD”) at the American Cinematheque screening. (“IT WAS”) Well, see, one of the themes of my book is that you can find symbols and parallels — and (“IT”) I don’t even know what the right word is — toward the second coming.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WHILE I WAS TRANSCRIBING THIS TAPE [the typed word] symbols APPEARED ON MY COMPUTER SCREEN.)
(“YOU KNOW” “OH WHAT”)
Q: Whatever you want to call — I don’t think the second coming is the right description either. It’s just basically ‘Son of Man’ — God proving Himself through me.
V: Ummm.
Q: So, anyway, this movie, “Martha” — (“UMMM”) I was (“SHHHIT”) talking to my friends a little bit but they didn’t really want me to interview them anymore so it’s very hard to interview them. It’s very sad when you go to a dinner party and (“LIKE”) one of your best friends says, “Oh, I don’t want to sit next to him. I know him.” (“I MEAN”) It’s because he’s freaked by the phenomena. (“BUT SOME”) But there are always people who aren’t afraid. So it was fine. (“BUT”) It just is funny. You would think he would want to be on my good side.
V: (small laugh)
Q: I don’t know. It’s bizarre. (“I MEAN”) It’s a — (“MARTHA”) okay. The film — I mean it’s hard to put into words. My relationship with Michael who is like God’s alter-ego (“UM-HUH”) or maybe the archangel Michael. I haven’t really figured that out. (“BUT”) Because (“YOU KNOW IT”) I know that God works through people’s subconscious mind, which includes the angels and aliens and what-have-you.
V: Ummm.
Q: But I’m not quite sure who is the Entity who does things to me like kisses me in dreams (“UM-HUH”) and floats feathers down to my friends. (“UH-HUH” “AND”) And things like that. Today, for example, I was going to get (“THESE”) this book copied for you and other people. And my jacket fell down. So I knew to put on my jacket. (“WELL I”) Actually it took longer than I thought so it was dark by the time I got my copies. (“SO”) Thank you, Michael. I mean people don’t understand it really is like a marriage. (“YOU KNOW IT REALLY IS”) And that’s why this movie, “Martha” — it’s basically about (“THE”) a woman named Martha, who’s like a virgin living with her alcoholic mother and meets the love of her life in a chance meeting. The way it’s so cinematically presented, the meeting comes across as this fateful encounter. (“WHICH”) It reminded me of when I was in Oklahoma and I found this Entity who’d been waiting for me. You know? (“EH IH” “SO”) For this movie (“AND PLUS” “MM MM”) Margit Carstensen played Martha and, of course, both her name and the character’s name begin with M — A — R. And my name begins with M — A — R. Mark. And the film just captured the emotional truth (“CORRECT”) of my relationship with Michael far better than I could ever express in words. Everything was planned — like there’s a big lion (“CORRECT”) on the stairway.
V: Umm. (“HUH”)
Q: There were pictures of Jesus in the background. There’s a last supper frame. (“OR”) What looks like the last supper. Just to show you how completely uncanny Michael can be — (“I WAS JUST”) earlier I had been very emotional about my relationship with Michael. Sometimes I get that way. It’s like “Why did he choose me (“UM-HUH”) unless this whole thing is a figment of my imagination.” (“NO”)
V: (laughs)
Q: I mean it’s like ‘boo-hoo’ — (“HUA”) and I cry, you know. And I read a poem once where basically it said, “Your tears terrorize me.” (“OOOHHHH”) So He finds ways to express what He’s feeling. (“TOO”) Because the boundaries of time and space mean nothing to Him. (“OOOHHHH”) So this movie is a German TV movie made in 1973 but it expresses the emotional truth of our own relationship. (“OOOHHHH”) And, in fact, (“SO”) during the movie I was starting to remember back (“SOME”) my emotions from the day and I started crying inside the theatre. (“UM-HUH” “AT”) At that exact time the couple in the movie entered a house and there was a crying statue. And my friend James who was sitting next to me saw this crying statue, turned to me, saw me crying just like the statue, and it was a very weird moment. I mean it’s like God is always making movies for Himself and He does have — (“A”) bizarre sense of humor.
V: Ummm.
Q: I mean Depeche Mode calls it a sick sense of humor but that’s just because it’s hard for us to understand. (“UM-HUH”) So, basically, (“BUT”) what my book is doing is recommending other sources as background sources and materials to better express the truth of my book. Throughout history, there have always been certain people that God has chosen to give voice to certain truths. Like Shakespeare, Dickens, Emily Dickinson and people like that. I think Laurie Anderson is the most recent one who He really did a lot of His work through. (“NO”) So I would recommend her CDS and albums to people (“UM-HUH”) because there’s a lot of cryptograms and a lot of interesting biblical — (“WHEN DO YOU”) are you familiar with her work? (“OH REALLY”)
V: Yes.
Q: Did you hear her new album “Bright Red”?
V: I’ve heard of it. I haven’t actually heard it yet.
Q: Well, for example, there’s one time where she talks about “the hairy ones will dance there.” Well, it’s a very interesting portion of the Bible because if you check (“YOU KNOW”) each different translation. It’s something (“DIFF”) totally different in each translation. And there are many cryptograms throughout her works because God, working through her subconscious mind, is revealing certain truths. Like He is all the time in pop songs, in poems, (“CORRECT”) in books, in movies.
V: Ummm.
Q: And then He basically takes people to certain movies and books that He thinks spiritually they need to see or read. (“SEE”) Everything is planned in advance. So people won’t all decide to go to the same restaurant at the same time. (“YOU KNOW IT’S”) Everything is carefully planned. However, emotionally, it hasn’t been experienced yet. So it’s still very interest (“TING”) — for Him, obviously. I mean there are some unplanned things, I guess. (“THE THING” “IT’S HARD TO”) It’s hard for me to understand that aspect of it. (“BUT”) It would seem to me that everything was pretty well planned in order for me to cry at the same time you see a crying statue at the screening of a movie — (“OH”) actually a TV movie that hasn’t even been released in the United States before. (“OOOHH” “TOO” “AND PLUS LIKE”) See, that means everything that happens to you is carefully planned. Like, for example, today I went to Bookstar because it took longer to get my photocopies back than I planned. And so I just bought a few sale books. I bought — let’s see. What is this? The Dead Sea Scrolls Uncovered by — the sale sticker is covering up their names. Oh. Robert Eisenman and Michael Wise. And it says “The First Complete Translation and (“THEIR) Interpretation of 50 Key Documents Withheld for Over 35 Years.” So I had to get this. I glanced through and I did see some mentions of Jesus which surprised me —
V: Mmmmmm.
Q: — because I had heard (“THAT”) that there had been no mention of him in the Dead Sea Scrolls. And I didn’t really see any mention here either but there was one interesting parallel and that concerned Judas. Or Thomas. One of them. And they were talking about a twin. And also about (“HIS” “A BRO”) a mention of either a brother and/or twin as one of the disciples.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE PARAGRAPH IN QUESTION CAN BE FOUND ON PAGE 261 AS FOLLOWS.)
The zodiacal dimension of the notation ‘twins’ is in a certain sense reinforced by the name in Aramaic of one of the astronomical zodiacal signs mentioned in this text, Thomiah, i.e. Gemini. This in turn relates to the name of another of the disciples of Jesus, with regard to whom the ‘brother’ signification is prominent as well, Judas Thomas/’Thomas the Twin’.
Q: So me having a twin brother is sort of déjà vu.
V: Exactly. (“AT LEAST ON”)
Q: On a symbolic energy level. I mean I’m not going around and saying I’m the reincarnation of Jesus any more. You know? Thank goodness. And so I also bought a pretty little book: A Book of Psalms, which I haven’t read in a long time. Because my Bible is so little, it’s hard to read so I thought I would get this one. It’s just a very nice edition that was only $7.
V: Mmmm.
Q: You want to get one too. (“BUT” “BUY PROBABLY”) At that price. (“YES”) And look at — can you pronounce the title?
V: Bhagavad-Gita. Yes, of course. (“YEAH” “SO I”)
Q: It’s something I never really — (“UH” “YOU KNOW”) I glanced through it before. But this seemed like a very pretty little book, um, you know, so I got that. (“LIKE”) On the back it says:
V: Exactly. (“AT LEAST ON”)
Q: On a symbolic energy level. I mean I’m not going around and saying I’m the reincarnation of Jesus any more. You know? Thank goodness. And so I also bought a pretty little book: A Book of Psalms, which I haven’t read in a long time. Because my Bible is so little, it’s hard to read so I thought I would get this one. It’s just a very nice edition that was only $7.
V: Mmmm.
Q: You want to get one too. (“BUT” “BUY PROBABLY”) At that price. (“YES”) And look at — can you pronounce the title?
V: Bhagavad-Gita. Yes, of course. (“YEAH” “SO I”)
Q: It’s something I never really — (“UH” “YOU KNOW”) I glanced through it before. But this seemed like a very pretty little book, um, you know, so I got that. (“LIKE”) On the back it says:
Worn-out garments Are shed by the body: Worn-out bodies Are shed by the dweller Within the body. New bodies are donned By the dweller, like garments. Not wounded by weapons, Not burned by fire, Not dried by the wind, Not wetted by water: Such is the Atman, Not dried, not wetted, Not burned, not wounded, Innermost element, Everywhere, always, Being of beings, Changeless, eternal, For ever and ever.
Q: So it was meant for me to buy this and read this right now. What does ‘Atman’ mean as in “Such is the Atman”? I don’t know. (“I’LL UM”)
V: I’ve read the Bhagavad-Gita.
Q: But that one word is probably not a translatable word. I mean that’s probably one word that (“TTTTTTT” “BUT”) — people who (“PRA”) are in this religion (“PROB”) probably would know what that means.
V: Ummm.
Q: But, anyway, I really (“SHOULD”) should take the time to learn more about all the other religions, I guess. Because my book’s theme is that there is only one religion, which is love. And the only way you can express love is by helping your fellow man. There’s really no other true expression of love because God is in each one of us. I hope my book isn’t becoming repetitive. I also got another book: New Poems of Emily Dickinson (William H. Shurr, editor, with Anna Dunlap & Emily Grey Shurr). So I’m very interested in reading that because (“DO IT”) her voice is very much like God’s voice. (“I MEAN”) There are a few poets that especially make me feel like that. (“YOU KNOW”) And she’s definitely one of those. (“WHAT WOULD”) Do you have any poets that you think are the closest to expressing the sentiments of the Creator or God? (“ALL OF THEM”)
V: There are several, really. Well, I’ve always been a great fan of Milton. And it’s interesting how “Paradise Lost” (“HE”) manages to recreate the full concept of God and Satan. And yet in such a way in which Satan actually comes off almost as a heroic figure. (“AAAAAAA”) Who else is there who really touches the divine?
Q: Are you going to say Blake?
V: Well, of course. He has —
Q: (laughs)
V: — such a powerful way in which (“YOU KNOW”) he describes things such as a tiger: (“NO”) “Tiger! Tiger! Burning bright In the forests of the night, (“YEAH”) What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful symmetry? . . . Did He who made the lamb make thee?” You may remember that he wrote a poem about the lamb as well — comparing the tiger to the lamb, remarking on how the same Divinity created both these creatures.
Q: Exactly.
V: Yeah. Split.
Q: The lamb — (“YES” “EXACTLY”) the lamb is an image of Christ or the Christ energy and so is the lion.
V: Quite so. (“UM”)
Q: I’m trying to figure out how the lamb relates to me. I don’t know. (“I DON’T KNOW”)
V: Ummm. (“BUT UM”)
Q: Another book (“AND I”) I’ve been reading (“OV”) the last few weeks is this Letters from the Earth, uncensored writings by Mark Twain. You definitely have to read this.
V: Yes.
Q: I was reading it with James a little bit before the movie started. And we were talking about flies and there was a fly in the movie. It was just (“YOU KNOW UN”) very unusual. It was so funny. My friend Andy gave this to me as a Christmas present and it begins basically with:
V: I’ve read the Bhagavad-Gita.
Q: But that one word is probably not a translatable word. I mean that’s probably one word that (“TTTTTTT” “BUT”) — people who (“PRA”) are in this religion (“PROB”) probably would know what that means.
V: Ummm.
Q: But, anyway, I really (“SHOULD”) should take the time to learn more about all the other religions, I guess. Because my book’s theme is that there is only one religion, which is love. And the only way you can express love is by helping your fellow man. There’s really no other true expression of love because God is in each one of us. I hope my book isn’t becoming repetitive. I also got another book: New Poems of Emily Dickinson (William H. Shurr, editor, with Anna Dunlap & Emily Grey Shurr). So I’m very interested in reading that because (“DO IT”) her voice is very much like God’s voice. (“I MEAN”) There are a few poets that especially make me feel like that. (“YOU KNOW”) And she’s definitely one of those. (“WHAT WOULD”) Do you have any poets that you think are the closest to expressing the sentiments of the Creator or God? (“ALL OF THEM”)
V: There are several, really. Well, I’ve always been a great fan of Milton. And it’s interesting how “Paradise Lost” (“HE”) manages to recreate the full concept of God and Satan. And yet in such a way in which Satan actually comes off almost as a heroic figure. (“AAAAAAA”) Who else is there who really touches the divine?
Q: Are you going to say Blake?
V: Well, of course. He has —
Q: (laughs)
V: — such a powerful way in which (“YOU KNOW”) he describes things such as a tiger: (“NO”) “Tiger! Tiger! Burning bright In the forests of the night, (“YEAH”) What immortal hand or eye Could frame thy fearful symmetry? . . . Did He who made the lamb make thee?” You may remember that he wrote a poem about the lamb as well — comparing the tiger to the lamb, remarking on how the same Divinity created both these creatures.
Q: Exactly.
V: Yeah. Split.
Q: The lamb — (“YES” “EXACTLY”) the lamb is an image of Christ or the Christ energy and so is the lion.
V: Quite so. (“UM”)
Q: I’m trying to figure out how the lamb relates to me. I don’t know. (“I DON’T KNOW”)
V: Ummm. (“BUT UM”)
Q: Another book (“AND I”) I’ve been reading (“OV”) the last few weeks is this Letters from the Earth, uncensored writings by Mark Twain. You definitely have to read this.
V: Yes.
Q: I was reading it with James a little bit before the movie started. And we were talking about flies and there was a fly in the movie. It was just (“YOU KNOW UN”) very unusual. It was so funny. My friend Andy gave this to me as a Christmas present and it begins basically with:
The Creator sat upon the throne, thinking. Behind Him stretched the illimitable continent of heaven, steeped in a glory of light and color; before Him rose the black night of space, like a wall. His mighty bulk towered rugged and mountain-like into the zenith, and His divine head blazed there like a distant sun. At His feet stood three colossal figures, diminished to extinction, almost, by contrast—archangels—their heads level with His ankle-bone.
(“AND UM”)
Q: Anyway, basically He creates the universe, I guess. (“UH-HUH” “AND THE”) The archangels there are revealed to be Satan, Gabriel and Michael. So, after my own experience with Michael, being (“GIVE”) given this book on Christmas about the angel Michael was especially confusing.
V: (laughs)
Q: (laughs) Because (“YOU KNOW RIGHT WHEN I”) whenever I begin thinking that Michael is the same thing as God something like this happens. (“FAINT”) So I can’t figure out — and then recently I had (“YOU KNOW” “UH-UH”) a dream where He kissed me. And (“I KNOW”) I think it was a Michael kiss and not a God kiss. (“NO”) So I’m trying to figure out if I’m the soulmate for God —
V: Ummm.
Q: — or for Michael. That’s a big question for me.
V: Sure.
Q: My tape didn’t stop turning. (“I MEAN I”) Sometimes if He doesn’t want me talking about a certain subject I find out later on when I’m transcribing that the tape wasn’t turning at that moment or, for some reason, what I thought I said is gone. Even though with one example I said of this recently on one of my journal recordings I think I was mistaken.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: HOWEVER, THIS VERY JOURNAL ENTRY THAT I REMEMBER MAKING IS MISSING.)
(“DEFINITELY” “BUT THERE ARE MANY”)
Q: But there are many cases of that. It’s just very hard for me to remember. Like sometimes the batteries will die. (“AND SOME”) You know what (“ALL OF A SUDDEN”) I noticed? Recently there haven’t been any noises being made by this machine like it did. Remember the first time I taped here? (“NO IDEA”) It was making a lot of noises, wasn’t it?
V: Ummm.
Q: It didn’t make any noises at all tonight.
V: Excellent.
Q: Well, what does that mean? Does that mean, (“THEN”) before, Michael was making it make those noises? Or is He suppressing the tape recorder from making those noises now?
V: Quite possibly. (“I KNOW I”)
Q: See, there are so many different ifs, ands or buts. Oh, I must say something else that was funny. When I left the last session — God knows when I’ll have time to transcribe it to hear what Michael has to say — I realized (“UM-HUH”) the name of the restaurant across the way — what is it?
V: Well, there are several. Across the road from here?
Q: No. Right here in the complex.
V: Oh, the Normandy — and the Paradise.
Q: The Paradise?
V: Yes.
Q: Paradise?
V: Ahhh. (small laugh)
Q: So another one of the themes of my book. Plus, (“IN THE PAR”) as I was leaving I realized that I had parked right in the space where there was this big, like, spear coming through the wall. Are you familiar with that parking space?
V: Yes.
Q: Where there’s, like, a pipe coming out or something? ([WOODY WOODPECKER] “HA HA HA HA” “THAT’S WOODEN” “IT WAS”) It said symbolically — I thought, “Oh my God — it’s like ‘the spear of destiny.'” (“I MEAN”) It’s like everything weird or uncanny has touched my life. It’s like everywhere I go I see black cats. I mean it’s just so funny to me. Or white cats.
V: Ummm.
Q: Like when I was in Alhambra I saw a white cat and the way it was moving it was like in a dream. Plus I stopped going to movies and TV shows except for this weekend. And after you stop doing that, something very strange happens. It becomes even more clear than (“EVER”) ever that life is a movie. And that every aspect is a movie. (“NO”) So, tomorrow, my friend Marie invited me to go see “12 Monkeys,” which is not the movie I would want to go see if it were left to me. But it’s obviously (“THE”) the movie that Michael or God wants me to see because that’s why He channeled through Marie to invite me to see that movie. She also invited me to “Carrington” but I couldn’t go (“BECAUSE I’M”) because of my therapy session tonight.
V: Oh, well, there’s always tomorrow. (small laugh)
Q: Exactly. So (“BUT IT”) it’s an interesting give-and-take-type (“SIT”) situation.
V: Sure. (“SO UM”)
Q: So that’s pretty much where I am at the moment. He basically said for me to call Sherry, Don and Barry. So I called my friend Don Levy. I’m going to call Sherry Lansing tomorrow and (“I WILL”) I thought it was Barry London but then I spoke to Don’s wife, she immediately said it was another Barry — Barry Diller, who just went to Savoy Pictures. He used to work at Paramount too. (“BUT UM”) So, anyway, I’ll do that. And also (“MM”) He told me to (“TO GIVE HIM THE BOOK”) to give my book to Sherry. And I knew that (“AT”) He meant Sherri Spillane who is a friend of mine. Do you know who Sherri Spillane is?
V: Well, I know the name.
Q: She’s and Ruth Webb are the cover story in the Reader (“THIS”) this week. (“SH”) Because she and Ruth have been (“HA”) handling these famous — I don’t even know — (“WHAT THIS”) celebrities or anticelebrities, if you will — recently. So it’s an interesting choice (“AS AN A”) for an agent. I really enjoy working with her. So I’ll go ahead and follow through and give her the book.
V: Great.
Q: I can’t remember (“WHO THEY”) who they’re handling right now. (“UMMMMMM” “BECAUSE I’M TERR”) I just am not good with names today. But Tonya Harding was a client. I don’t think they handle her anymore. And what’s his name? Bobbitt?
V: Ummm.
Q: The one (“WHOSE”) whose wife sliced off his —
V: Oh, yes. Bobbitt. Yes. (“HA HA HA HA”)
Q: What’s his name?
V: Yeah. Bobbitt was the name — I forget his first name. (“YEAH” “HIS”)
Q: But it reminds me too a character in Crowned Heads by Thomas Tryon (“TOM TRYON”) had the same name. I think. Anyway. Um. What’s that noise? Oh, a siren in the distance. (“IT’S INTER”) It’s almost like sound effects in a movie.
V: (laughs)
Q: (laughs) (“TAFF” “NEWS” “ESPEC”)
V: Well, real life is a movie, isn’t it?
Q: Yeah, exactly. (“NEWS” “SO UM”) It’s just amazing. The CDS I have with me today are some of the same ones I had last time. (“EXCEPT I HAVE” “OH THE”) Well, there’s the score for “Until The End Of The World.” That has a lot of interesting songs on it. I especially like “Calling All Angels” performed by Jane Siberry (“AND”) with k. d. Lang. (“UM-HUH” “THEY”) There are also songs performed by Depeche Mode, Julee Cruise, Lou Reed, R.E.M., Elvis Costello, U2, Nick Cave and the Bad Seeds, Patti Smith and Fred Smith, Talking Heads, Neneh Cherry, Crime & The City Solution, Can, T-Bone Burnett and Daniel Lanois. (“I MEAN”) Who would not buy this CD? (“AND IT WASN’T A”)
Q: It wasn’t big. That’s another one of the themes of my book. The mystery of why (“THERE ARE”) certain people become famous and rich and successful and others who are just as talented don’t. (“IT’S BECAU”) It’s sort of ‘in the stars’ so to speak. (“NO”) It’s like a big giant clock (“THAT’S S”) slowly counting down. Tick-tock. Tick-tock. Tick-tock. To what — we don’t really — (“KNOW”)
V: Ummm. (“ME AN”)
Q: That’s another one of the themes of my book. (“IS”) God really isn’t an angry God. He isn’t really a loving God. He’s definitely a funny God. (“YEAH”) And He’s definitely — in some way He’s definitely a — oh, what’s the word — I just had the word right on the tip of my tongue and it’s gone. (“IT” “YOU KNOW”) God really controls (“WHEN”) when we remember things and when we don’t. Oh. Ambivalent. God is a very ambivalent God. See the movie “Martha.” You’ll understand what I mean. A lot of truths about my relationship with Him came out in that movie. I mean (“THE JUST”) it (“WAS EXPR”) perfectly expressed things except I did not try to escape Him the way this character does in the movie. Thank goodness. (“WELL”) You really can’t escape him. Frankly. (“YES”) But I don’t think Fassbinder knew when he was doing the movie that this was a metaphor for God (“NO”) even though Martha says “My God” more than she calls her husband by his name in the movie. (“SO”) He probably thought (“HAH”) it was just funny to have a crying statue but actually these all have very interesting meanings. (“ESPECIALLY”) Especially where my book is concerned. That’s another thing. I’m very self- conscious when I know I’m working on my book. Like right now I’m very self-conscious so I’m sort of now living my book. It’s almost like I’m always performing to try to bring my book up to date. (“UH”)
V: Ummm. (“OOHHHHH”)
Q: I mean it’s just so weird. Well, I know I’m living a movie. So I’m living a book and living a movie. (“I READ”) I read somewhere recently in a poem or something that I’m “not missing anything.” Because I used to worry that I’m missing going out and being amongst nature and things like that. There aren’t many good movies that have been made this year — I don’t really feel like I’m missing any important movies. I (“REALLY”) think I saw the find of the year by going to see “Martha.” So I don’t know. I just feel very, very good. So before I start taping the other side of this cassette, we’ll have a half-hour break and I can tell you a much more honest — (“NUT”) much more crazy series of impressions that I wouldn’t dare record.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I WAS BEING HUMOROUS. THE IMPRESSION I WOULD LIKE TO GIVE IS THAT SILENT BEWILDERMENT AND EXPRESSING NONSENSE IS SOMEHOW CLOSER TO THE TRUTH OF THE CONFUSING EMOTIONS I TRY TO EXPLAIN AND RATIONALIZE IN WORDS.)
Q: So (“BUT”) what’s your impression, though, of all this that you’re hearing? (“I MEAN”) Just (“WHAT HE”) what’s your impression?
V: It sounds that you’re coming up with different interpretations of things — searching for different meanings. The great thing is you have an open mind and that you’re willing to explore everything, explore what’s going on out there. And you’re actually willing to change your beliefs, change things that don’t fit and this is the mark of a person who’s moving towards achieving great things in life.
Q: The mark of a person?
V: Quite so. (laughs)
Q: I think you’re channeling.
V: (laugh) You thought of that one. (“UH-HUH”) And, basically, you can find that this process of being open to new conceptions — open to ideas — will help you to really achieve those things that are most important to you.
Q: One of the things I did notice, though, when I was transcribing our first hypnotherapy session — you were saying about how other people (“ARE”) have had even more vivid experiences with God. He said, “NO.”
V: Really?
Q: So I’ve had the most vivid experience of God.
V: Well, that’s a great achievement.
Q: Of anyone in the history of the world.
V: Well, that’s great. (laughs)
Q: (laughs) (“UM-HUH”) It’s great but it really makes me wonder what’s going on.
V: Ummm.
Q: I mean it’s like when you think of the odds of (“A ABBA A”) being the exact person that this happens to. It really makes you think, “It can’t possibly (“BE”) be true. (“I MEAN IT JUST” “UHHH”) It just can’t be true.” I mean you know — why wouldn’t He just choose Tom Cruise and make His job a whole lot easier?
V: (laughs)
Q: (laughs) Tom Cruise has enough fun anyway. (“WHO DOES”) Well, he’s into Scientology, I guess. (“A J” “THIS”) L.A. is the capitol for all these religious and pseudo-religious (“UM YOU KNOW”) experiences.
V: Oh yes. (“IT’S”)
Q: It’s so perfect that I would be living in Los Angeles. (“EVEN THOUGH”) I must say I forgot to bring my medallion (“THAT I”) that I found. (“HMMM”) My Egyptian medallion? Did I tell you about that last time?
V: Yes.
Q: I forgot to bring that in but (“THE THING”) it looked exactly like me and it probably shows the god (Amun-)Ra. I think that maybe I really am the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk. Which I guess means I’m getting back into my — I mean people would say that was a — well, what’s the word again? (“WHEN”) Delusion. Because this is somebody who really lived and there’s no way really of knowing if I was him or not.
V: Ummm.
Q: But I admit that. I’m just saying I have a medallion that looks exactly like me as the god (Amun-)Ra. I have no actual memory of that. (“BUT”) It’s weird that it looks just like me (“AND I”) and I actually found this at an antique store that was a few blocks away from my condo. So (“SO”) instead of going around and telling people I’m the reincarnation of Jesus Christ, I’m only telling you (“UM-HUH”) and a few other people that I’m the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk, who might actually be the source for all of the other resurrection myths (“UM-HUH”) throughout all the other cultures of the world. Such as Jesus — (“AND I’M SURE YOU CAN LIT”) you know, rattle off ten others. (“BUT UM”) Of course, the big one is the Jesus story because of the importance in the world today. (“HMM”) And I did go to a channeler and the channeler said that there was some physical substantiation for that so I think that there really was a Jesus who lived. I just don’t really think that it was me right now. Even though I did hear Jesus say that one time, “Father, I have waited so long.” Which makes me wonder too. I mean could I be channeling Jesus? Or could I be channeling Michael? (“OKAY”) Well, I know I’m channeling Michael. (“BUT”) Could Jesus have been channeling Michael? I think so. I think the Holy Ghost is Michael. So — (“SO”) but I don’t know exactly. (“NO”) The reincarnation (“A[I]R”) area I would like to explore more — (“TO FIND OUT” “TO FUCK”) try to find out if I really am the reincarnation of the people that I seem to be the (“REIN”) reincarnation of: Julia Pastrana, Catherine Cadiere and Bel-Marduk. (“UMMM”) So thank goodness (“THAT” “BEL-MARDUK”) when you say it — (“THAT YOU’RE THE”) the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk doesn’t push people’s buttons the way it does when you say, “I’m the reincarnation of Jesus Christ.”
V: Ummm.
Q: So what do you think about that? If you were the reincarnation of somebody, who do you — just off the (“CUFF OF YOUR”) top of your head — (“LIKE” “WHO WOULD YOU”) say that you were the reincarnation of?
V: When I was a lot younger I used to think I was the reincarnation of Richard the Third, who was an English king of the fifteenth century.
Q: And why?
V: He was accused of committing all sorts of murders. You may know about Shakespeare’s play.
Q: Oh definitely.
V: There’s been a dramatic recent film of the play —
Q: I’ve seen them all. (“RIGHT”)
V: — in which he’s accused of killing his young nephews and various other relatives and people in order to achieve political power. Nevertheless, the historical record indicates it’s very unlikely he committed these killings and these murders were blamed on him afterwards. When Henry Tudor became the king of England, they blamed Richard the Third for all these things which he had supposedly done and he was supposedly a hunchback and evil-looking when in fact this is not historically accurate, you know.
Q: Have you seen any pictures of him? I bet he looks just like you.
V: Well, that’s what I thought at the time. There are a number of portraits of Richard the Third from his own time.
Q: Wait, whoops. (“I”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #49, SIDE #1 ENDS HERE.)
