INTERVIEW — TAPE #47, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
S: Blaine Stoddard (party acquaintance)
U: James Ulmer (friend in California)
B: Michael Paul Russell (my brother in California)
F: Franc Tausch (Ekeloes), party acquaintance
M: Mark Gill, party acquaintance
W: Walt Shifler, party acquaintance
T: Ted (friend in California)
C: Claude Benatar, party acquaintance
A: Adriaan Arends, party acquaintance
Q: Okay, so here we are in Blaine’s bathroom.
S: Reading “Desiderata.”
Q: At the bottom it says, “Found at Old St. Paul’s Church, Baltimore,” dated 1692. And I understand no one knows who the true author was.
S: I’ll read.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: BLAINE READS “DESIDERATA” AS FOLLOWS. ON THE TAPE, SPIRIT MESSAGES CAN BE HEART AFTER ‘HEROISM” [“BE”], “SHOULD” [“WHAT WE”], “TO BE” [“TALENT”], “DREAMS” [“BUT”] AND “WORLD” [“I”]. I LATER ADDED THE AUTHOR’S NAME AND COPYRIGHT INFORMATION.)
S: Reading “Desiderata.”
Q: At the bottom it says, “Found at Old St. Paul’s Church, Baltimore,” dated 1692. And I understand no one knows who the true author was.
S: I’ll read.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: BLAINE READS “DESIDERATA” AS FOLLOWS. ON THE TAPE, SPIRIT MESSAGES CAN BE HEART AFTER ‘HEROISM” [“BE”], “SHOULD” [“WHAT WE”], “TO BE” [“TALENT”], “DREAMS” [“BUT”] AND “WORLD” [“I”]. I LATER ADDED THE AUTHOR’S NAME AND COPYRIGHT INFORMATION.)
Go placidly amid the noise and the haste and remember what peace there may be in silence. As far as possible without surrender be on good terms with all persons. Speak your truth quietly and clearly; and listen to others, even the dull and ignorant; they too have their story. Avoid loud and aggressive persons, they are vexatious to the spirit. If you compare yourself with others you may become vain and bitter; for always there will be greater and lesser persons than yourself. Enjoy your achievements as well as your plans. Keep interested in your own career, however humble; it is a real possession in the changing fortunes of time. Exercise caution in your business affairs; for the world is full of trickery. But let this not blind you to what virtue there is; many persons strive for high ideals; and everywhere life is full of heroism. Be yourself. Especially do not feign affection. Neither be cynical about love; for in the face of all aridity and disenchantment it is as perennial as the grass. Take kindly the counsel of the years, gracefully surrendering the things of youth. Nurture strength of spirit to shield you in sudden misfortune. But do not distress yourself with imaginings. Many fears are borne of fatigue and loneliness. Beyond a wholesome discipline, be gentle with yourself. You are a child of the universe no less than the trees and the stars; you have a right to be here. And whether or not it is clear to you, no doubt the universe is unfolding as it should. Therefore be at peace with God, whatever you conceive Him to be. And whatever your labors and aspirations, in the noisy confusion of life keep peace with your soul. With all its sham, drudgery and broken dreams, it is still a beautiful world. Be cheerful. Strive to be happy.
MAX EHRMANN
© 1927 by Max Ehrmann. All rights reserved.Copyright renewed 1954 by Bertha K. Ehrmann.Reprinted by permission Robert L. Bell, Melrose, Mass. 02176
MAX EHRMANN
© 1927 by Max Ehrmann. All rights reserved.Copyright renewed 1954 by Bertha K. Ehrmann.Reprinted by permission Robert L. Bell, Melrose, Mass. 02176
Q: Well, it sounds like God wrote it, no matter who He was channeling through at the time.
S: It’s inspired. (“WHO”) Whoever happened to have been the channel, it is definitely a —
Q: Did you go to Old St. Paul’s Church?
S: No. (“NO”) This was actually inherited from an aunt of mine who’s very special to me. She had it in her bathroom in New York and I inherited it when she passed away.
Q: Do you know where the original is? What museum?
S: That’s a good question. I really don’t know. (“I SEE”) That would be a good thing to find out. (“YEAH”) I’m sure we could call that church and they would tell us. It may be there at the church framed or something.
Q: Of course, if I ever see it at an antique store I’ll just pick one up.
S: Of course.
( . . . )
S: I have my little guardian angel. Angelyne. In the poster with an unobstructed view from apartment 10-H. (small laugh)
Q: She’s blowing you a kiss.
S: She sure is.
( . . . )
F: Hi. My name is Franc. My hobbies are — no, I’m just kidding. The symbol — Ekeloes means oak leaves. The oak. I actually just took that name on about a year ago. It was my mother’s maiden name. And I did not know that much about it. I only knew I wanted to get rid of my father’s last name and I wanted to take on my mother’s maiden name which was from Sweden.
Q: And what was his name?
F: His name was Tausch. And I wanted to (“OUT”) take on — like which means borrowing, trading — (“ABUSE”)
Q: Spell that.
F: T — A — U — S — C — H.
U: (laughs) (“VAULT”) That’s a Jewish symbol. (“MAR”)
F: S — H — I — T. But, (small laugh) like, (“STAY”) equals S — H — I — T. (“RIGHT NOW”) Anyway, so I took on my mother’s maiden name. I just knew that it’s beautiful like oak leaves. (“BEAUTIFUL — BEAUTIFUL”) I’m an immortalist, meaning, like, physical immortality. (“SOME”)
Q: Right. (“INHABIT US”)
F: And then, (“ALL OF ME”) I did not know (“THE DOW” or “THE TAO” “SOME”) that much about it. I knew the name was beautiful. (“SENT”) The next thing I know (“BEAUTY MARKS”) is a friend of mine tells me, (“I”) “Listen” — (“APPARENT TREE”) this is actually not a weird story. (“REPAIR”) This is just like (“UM-HUH”) talking about my name (“SAY”) and it’s not —
Q: They’re all weird stories. (“THEY’RE ALL WEIRD”)
U: Well, to him everything’s weird. (“WHAT IS D — YOUR STATE” “LIKE THE KISS” “LIKE THE KI[SS]”)
F: There you go. (“LISTEN”) Am I going to end up in your book? (“REWARD”) Anyway, so, (“BELL WITCH” “LET’S GO” “D THIR[D]” “IT’S SONY”) the next day, a friend of mine tells me, “Did you know that the meaning of the name is oak leaves, which are immortal?” (“FUN”) And she’s not an immortalist at all. (“MY BOOK”) She knows I am an immortalist but she doesn’t know anything about the whole scene. She said, “Did you know that oak leaves are immortal? They are the last leafs to fall from the tree.” (“ARE THE HOLY”)
Q: So before you took the name (“SO IT’S LIKE”) you didn’t even know that when you took the name.
F: No. (“ZZ”) I didn’t know that.
U: (laughs)
F: I just knew that I wanted to take my mother’s maiden name.
U: (claps once) (“THE WATER” “WHAT DO YOU MEAN”)
F: And the next thing I said —
Q: My mother’s maiden name was King, by the way. (“FRANC YOU’RE GAY”)
F: Oh, and aren’t you a king? (“YES”)
Q: Leo the lion.
F: Is Leo your first name?
Q: No. My astrological sign is Leo.
F: Alrighty. (“WHO CARES”) I’m a Scorpio. (“WATCHES” “AHHHHHH” “FOR”) The next thing I know is that another friend tells me, (“IS”) “Did you know not only are they the last leaves to fall from the tree, therefore being immortal, but did you know that it takes them seven years to dissolve in the ground?” (“THE LION KING”) I guess other leaves falling from the trees are just sort of dissolving. Oak leaves are (“FIVE”) just there for seven years. (“GOOD”) The next thing is (“SOME GUY”) I’m getting a car. (“STOP”) I’m getting this beautiful 1964 Cadillac Coup de Ville. Beautiful. (“OH”) I call him the Black Beauty. (“GET OUT”) She’s too beautiful. A lot of chrome and all the spiel. (“HIS MONEY” “TO MARK” “LISTEN”) I mean my name would be oak leaves in English. (“SET YOUR MIND”) The license plate is 2OKV and then three numbers. (“YEAH”) Not really weird — it’s just I love this name so much. (“I SHOT M” “NEIL” “OH THAT’S WHEN”)
Q: What were the three numbers? Do you remember? (“I NEED THIS” “HHH” “LOVE”)
F: Actually I don’t, to tell you the truth.
Q: Any sevens in it?
F: Yes, there’s a seven in it (“I LOVE”) but I (“I HELD LADY”) just can’t — (“YES”) this is like — (“YOU”) it was just when I discovered — (“THROUGH ME”)
Q: And you’re an actor. (“NO”) What (“WHA[T] — HOW”) recent films have you been in?
F: I was in a French Canadian/German co-production in Germany, which is to be released next year; a series that I starred in —
Q: Entitled? What was the title?
F: I only know the working title.
Q: That’s okay. Fine. (“FOR”) I’m sure it has a symbolic meaning. So (“OKAY”) tell me what it is.
F: . . . (it’s) a German title which means ‘Head Over Heels.’ That might even be the title. I don’t know. Like ‘head over heels” — (“YEAH”) (snaps fingers) (“LIKE VICK”)
Q: By the way, that was — (“THE”)
F: It was directed by Niki Müllerschön. (“IT WAS”)
Q: — the actor snapped his fingers and not ‘my’ Entity, Mighael. (“JUST”) That’s just for my transcription notes. (“FOR LOVE” “KEN”) He loves — (“PHOTO”) there’s a few sounds He really likes. (“UM”) Like in — (“AA”) anyway, that’s one of them. (“THOSE”)
F: Alrighty. (“NN”) Niki Müllerschön is the director — (“I COME” “I” “WHO NE”) who, after he finished this movie, moved to the Pacific Palisades. He’s a German director and now he has two American movie deals up his sleeve. And then my series premiered December 11th on European television — RTL.
Q: What’s it called?
F: It’s called “Scheidungsgricht,” which means ‘Divorce Court’ / ‘Court of Divorce,’ in which I’m a divorce lawyer. And before that I had my own TV show on Premiere Television in Europe for three years which was “Kino ’93” and “Kino ’94.”
Q: “K — I — N — O”?
F: N — O. There you go. On Premiere Television. (“YEAH”)
Q: I’m surprised it isn’t “K — E — N — O.”
F: (laughs) And, well, how did we actually —
Q: Speaking of games of chance.
F: Right.
Q: An actor’s career is a game of chance. (“A”)
F: Why — where does Keno come in there?
Q: Well, it’s a gambling game.
F: Oh, okay. (“HOUSE”) There you go.
Q: Keno. Somebody else can explain Keno. (small laugh)
F: Are you an immortalist?
Q: I’m sure I am. I’m everything else so I might as well be that too. Well, let’s just say I’m beginning to suspect I’m the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk.
F: Of whom?
Q: Bel-Marduk. The god (Amun-)Ra. I found this old Egyptian pendant and it has a picture of me dressed up like (“RIGHT”) the god (Amun-)Ra.
F: Oh my goodness. (“YA”)
Q: Yeah. (“BY BOAT” “DON’T”)
F: Think (“VERY WELL”) of us as gods. (“OUT HERE”)
Q: That’s embarrassing.
F: From one god to another, come on.
Q: What god are you?
F: I’m just the — I would say — not a specific god. I just know that God resides (“YEAH”) within me.
Q: Well, that’s true for everyone. (“THAT”)
F: Well, most people are not aware of that. This is why all the shit is going on.
Q: Exactly.
F: If people were aware of that I don’t think that there would be any wars, any starvation, any injustice — any shit going on.
Q: That’s one of the themes of my book.
F: Which is? Which one?
Q: The theme you just mentioned is one of the themes of my book.
F: Wow. Alright. Perfect. I’ll see you at the Bodhi Tree, I guess.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE BODHI TREE IS A WELL-KNOWN METAPHYSICAL BOOKSTORE IN WEST LOS ANGELES.)
F: But physical mortality, which is my favorite topic of the moment next to the HIV myth. You know that sex and HIV have nothing to do with AIDS, right? I mean that’s, like, one of the things —
Q: You’re talking to someone who volunteers on the Southern California HIV/AIDS Hotline so — (“NO”)
F: Oh my God, are you working for APLA? These guys are suppressing the truth.
Q: The Hotline is separate from APLA. (“HAVE” “BUT” “SO”)
F: What kind of hotline?
Q: It’s an HIV hotline. However — you can give the ‘alternative’ (“PAINFUL” “OKAY”) belief but do it very quickly.
F: Well, this is really true and important to do things quickly because I’m really serious here. But I mean the — (“YOU KNOW”) first of all, you know Peter Duesberg? He’s one of the main scientists and micro-virologists. He works out of the University of Berkeley and he discovered years and years ago when Gallo said that HIV is causing AIDS — he said that this is —
U: Now this is getting interesting.
F: — a hoax. This is absolutely not true. I don’t believe in Gallo. I believe in Duesberg. How can you not? Have you known anybody who died of AIDS who did not take AZT or ddI? You probably haven’t. Maybe if that person died of a —
Q: Actually, I do.
U: Well, yeah, if they took AZT they could still die of AIDS.
F: Well, then did that person — (“LOOK”) did you know AZT was a drug that was out in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s? They shelved it because people were dying from it. (“I KNOW”) And it has a label — a warning —
U: Marianne Sagebrecht sent me a 50-page (“MARK”) thing about how AZT kills leukocytes, the white blood cells. And it’s true.
F: It’s the terminator. What AZT does —
U: But —
F: — it goes into your body and it terminates every single cell there is. It does not know whether to —
U: No no no no, it’s not —
F: No, this is exactly what’s going on. (“THIS IS LIKE”)
U: Now mixed with 3TC — AZT and 3TC create a reaction which the body selects as a major pressure to select the 3TC. It’s the one hope now. It’s a combination therapy. So AZT — even if you’re (“GO”) immune to it — if it kills you — with the combination of 3TC it’s a lot less harmful and it stops more of the virus.
F: It still (“NOT WORKING”) causes all kinds of cancer (“WHAT” “I AGREE”) because it causes basically, if you read the labels and if you get a label it might be interesting for you to do. (“START LOOKING AT”) A label from the manufacturers — (“FOR ENOUGH WAIVERS”) of the side effects. All the side effects are the diseases known as AIDS. People that are tested HIV-positive are being put on light dosages of AZT and the shit begins to hit the fan because at first they feel great and then the decay starts and I give them two to four years and these people are out of here.
U: But when you add the protease inhibitors?
F: What?
U: Okay, now — AZT is one of what are called nucleoside analogues / reverse transcriptase inhibitors, which only work when the virus is outside the cell — when it’s infected the cell lining. What the protease inhibitors are a whole new family of drugs which actually stop the virus once it’s infected the cells.
F: That brings us to the next step, which is —
U: Which does not kill like AZT does.
F: Right. However, HIV is found to be a totally harmless virus. And people that are dying of AIDS — and I’m not saying — I didn’t write this. There were big books in my —
U: I know.
F: What do you mean “I know”? I could have written it — could have discovered it.
U: Because I know you didn’t write it.
F: But I mean — okay.
U: I don’t believe an actor can write. (“THIS”) I’m sorry, I just —
F: That is unbelievable —
U: I’m telling you . . .
F: (joking) I’m out of here! Cancel! (“RIGHT — I”) Okay.
Q: But do you realize you’re scaring a lot of people? (“NO”)
F: No, I’m not. The truth can never scare people. The truth may scare companies like Boehringer and —
U: Wellcome.
F: — like Hoffmann-La Roche. And like all these people. (“LOS AN[GELES]”)
Q: But you’re not saying that people should not practice safe sex.
F: All I know is that sex produces life. And I don’t see any — I mean you are a product of sex. (“NO BUT”) These are products of sex. I’m a product of sex.
Q: But, obviously, HIV is virus-related so there is a virus in there somewhere.
F: Yes, but what I’m trying to get at here is that the people who die of AIDS and who obviously have the zillions of AIDS viruses in their body, when they look for the virus in their bodies they can not find them and not a single case of any person who has died of AIDS (“SHOE” “CARE” “AND EACH”) has there been a sufficient amount — a little bit here and there — but a sufficient amount that could actually kill you. Plus, if the virus multiplies the way that Gallo and all these people say that it does —
Q: Well, more research needs to be done.
F: No, there’s a — I’m just trying to get this all in there in five minutes.
Q: My friend Sam didn’t take any drugs and he had HIV and he died of it.
F: Alright. What did he die of?
Q: One of the opportunistic infections.
F: Which is what?
Q: Kaposi’s sarcoma.
F: See, this is the whole thing. Before AIDS, people would die of anything — like leukemia or whatever. And it was leukemia. Now, with HIV, it’s leukemia and HIV is AIDS. Before that, it was — leukemia is leukemia. Now, people die of skin cancer — now when they have HIV it’s skin cancer and HIV equals AIDS.
U: But this is different than before. This is not like dying of leukemia. You’re saying this is just a substitute death for leukemia. (“IT”) No, it’s an additional death.
F: Howev(er) — yeah, right, but if — if I may just say this. (“DORIS” “THEY” “THEY BEAT”) Particular things that have been going on in the last ten years, which is when most people have died, has also been an effect of people who were at that time in the ’70s and ’80s taking a lot of drugs. (“UM”) This is why most homosexual people are affected (“CAUCASIAN”) because in those scenes people took a lot of poppers, which is (“IT”) responsible for Kaposi’s — (“THAT’S”)
Q: This has been a good discussion. (“DUESBERG”) But let me just bring it to a conclusion really quick. (“SOFT” “PORN” “PAST MOVIE”)
F: Can I just say Peter Duesberg — read his stuff. (“PICK”)
Q: No. (“NEW”) No. (“N Y R”) The best person to call for information is the HIV/AIDS Hotline because —
F: Well, who’s behind it? (“WE”) APLA?
Q: No no no no. It’s affiliated with APLA but it’s separate.
F: Who’s behind it?
Q: It’s its own entity. But let me just tell you real quick. If you want to worry about something, have you been to a dentist recently? (“WE DID”)
F: No.
Q: When’s the last time you saw a dentist?
F: Hmm. (speaking with teeth clenched) I’m not really sure.
U: (small laugh)
Q: Never?
F: Dentists are unemployed if they have to come to my teeth so —
U: Well, are you talking about gums? Bleeding gums? (“PERFECT”) What? (“WHAT I’M SAY”)
Q: I’m just saying it has come to my attention that dentists might be passing on — (“WELL”)
U: Well, that one girl in Florida. (“H I V”)
Q: No. That was unsubstantiated. (“SHE WAS LYING”)
U: Well, she was twenty-one.
Q: She was lying. No, she didn’t know. It was a strain that was loose in that particular community.
U: Oh.
M: She claimed to be a virgin.
Q: She didn’t know.
U: Ohh. Oh, that’s interesting. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Well, say that again. (“C” “SHE’S”)
U: What was her name? Karen something?
M: According to “Sixty Minutes,” she was a total slut before any of that ever happened.
Q: And what’s your name again?
M: My name’s Mark. (“YEAH” “K” “HER”) What was her name?
Q: K or a C?
U: Yeah, uh-huh. I remember.
M: It wasn’t Karen.
U: She was twenty-two or twenty-three when she died.
M: Kimberly Bergalis.
U: Kimberly Bergalis.
F: Well, that’s one case. Plus this is once again all the media behind this. This stuff you will not hear on the primetime news which is sponsored by all thebig pharmaceutical industries. You will not hear about it. If you read Peter Duesberg’s books —
Q: Well, I don’t know about Peter Duesberg but if you want good information call (“WHY”) the Southern California HIV/AIDS Hotline. (“HOW IS”)
F: Peter Duesberg is the author of two recent books on the HIV myth. And then you can also get other books, such as AIDS Incorporated by John Rappoport. And (“THE”) those are (“PP”) great authors to read.
Q: Well, I don’t know about how good they are but I have to say a lot of people who don’t know what they’re doing call and leave harassing (“HEATER”) messages to the people working at the Hotline or they call and they hang up. (“TAKE ANOTHER”) Please do not do this. (“THEY”) This hotline is an outlet for people in the community who really need help. (“FOR”) So every time (“THAT PERSON”) one of these radicals does this it’s very, very bad and damaging and not good karma. (“NO HERE WE ALL ARE SON”)
( . . . )
W: Do I really have to? (“JUST”)
Q: For me. Make it easy.
W: Okay. My name is Walt Shifler. My mom passed away on February 1st, 1994. However, prior to that, December of ’93, (“OKAY”) I had (“A”) come across or arrived to a book known as Embraced By The Light by Betty J. Eadie who had experienced an after-death experience. And I found it to help me through the passing of my mom who I was very close to (“GO NOW”) and what on (“MY”) — and I only read part of it once I first purchased it. However, after the passing of my mom, I read the book and it helped me to further understand the — (“I GET”) if you want to call it the process or life and death or cycle or whatever (“NO”) of our own mortality.
Q: And have you had any airplane experiences? (“CAN HANDLE THIS”)
W: No. (“DO LO[VE]”)
Q: No. Okay. (“S FAIR” “CONAN” “UM”) And any dreams about your mom or —
W: A few. When I was sitting there talking to her. We were sitting on a table (“NO”) and whatnot. But I really don’t recall what we were speaking there of and —
Q: I’ve had that happen too where I’ve had dreams. You can’t remember them. (“I”)
W: I remember it. This situation. But I really don’t remember the (“YEAH”) specific details of what we were speaking of there.
Q: That’s what happened to me once when my angel and I were discussing whether or not to have sex.
W: Oh really?
Q: And as soon as I woke up I could not remember what we said.
W: Really?
Q: (laughs) (“BE MY” “PARK” “PALM”) So that’s interesting.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE ARE FIVE DIFFERENT “YES” OR “YEAH”S ON TAPE THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO ATTRIBUTE PRECEDING AND FOLLOWING MY COMMENT.)
(“SO”)
W: Well, this is Walt again. And I was overnighting the other evening in Portland, Oregon (“I STILL DON’T LOVE YOU”) when on one of — (“B”) Showtime or Cinemax or HBO, the movie (“SSS SSS”) “Stargate” played. (“THAT’S RIGHT”) I did not go to see it when it (“COME ON”) was promoted or whatever. I knew of it but I really did not (“N”) know any details, (“I LOVE YOU” “THERE” “LAZY”) you know, (“MOM”) of the movie. (“I CAN GO WITH HIM”) But I really (“BELIEF”) found it interesting — (“MOSS” “THE BILL”) the way that they found this transport system between different worlds or galaxies. (“DIDN’T TURN OUT TO BE”) And when they arrived on the other side of the galaxy (“NO” “THERE”) they found a similar civilization as though we were truly planted here on planet Earth.
Q: Do you believe that? (“OR FROM” “UM”)
W: I will say this. I don’t necessarily believe that we evolved from primates but I do believe, however, there is a possibility that we were planted here. Yes. (“WELL PLUS”) We were placed here.
Q: Egypt lasted a long time. So if there is such a thing as reincarnation you probably had a life in Egypt at one point. (“THIRTY-NINE”)
W: Possibly. (“COME HERE”) But I really found that interesting. (“MARK KOSTABI” “FOR A” “CREDIBLE”) And to see (“FIRST TIME”) that — the fact (“YES”) that the Giza (“YOU”) Pyramid (“MONDAY” “WHAT IF THEY COME”) and (“MY BELATED”) that part of Egypt — (“ELIOT”) and the fact that — (“FRONTIER”) —
Q: Mighael is tickling me (“UM-HUH”) on my ear.
W: Really? (“BECAU[SE]”)
Q: If he tickles you, say something.
W: I will. (“BUT UM”)
Q: Well, you know in that movie (“PRESS”) the god Ra — (“FREE”) another name for him (“LESS”) was Bel-Marduk.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS INTERVIEW WAS DONE BEFORE I REALIZED THAT ZECHARIA SITCHIN’S MENTION OF RA IN HIS BOOK PROBABLY REFERS TO THE GOD AMUN-RA.)
W: Really?
Q: And I found a picture of the god (Amun-)Ra that looks just like me.
W: Wow. I really didn’t appreciate the actor that portrayed (“YOU KNOW”) Ra in that movie but — (“YOU’RE REALLY” “NICE”) he was kind of —
Q: What was his name? Jaye Davidson from “The Crying Game”?
W: Right. But (“GETTING TO KNOW YOU I”) I just found that was interesting that they didn’t cast a different character — someone like a Yul Brynner-type. (“OR”) You know, just (“I LO[VE]”) a real tyrannical person. But I found it real interesting — the fact that there is this possibility. (“NO — I HURRY”) And then, subconsciously, that (“A FEW WEEKS AGO”) there is some truth to the (“YOU LIKE [F]ALLING ASLEEP”) the entire film that (“LASSO” “MAYBE”) there is such a thing.
Q: Well, the next time I see you I’ll bring this pendant I have. It looks just like me. (“JAMAICA”) Just like me. (“I’M ENROLLED” “NO”) I don’t know what it means. (“HE TOOK THIS”) I don’t know if it means I’m the reincarnation (“ONLY THIS”) or if I’m close to his energy but the fact that I look so much like him —
W: Um-huh.
Q: — makes me think that reincarnation is a definite possibility.
W: Right. (“ANOTHER” “NO”) You know, some cultures on Earth believe that. (“FOR HOW MANY” “MOVIES”)
Q: Exactly. (“YEAH” “WHETHER WE”) Well, thank you (“NO”) for this interview.
W: You’re welcome.
Q: Do you have any other strange experiences or memories?
W: At this moment no.
Q: No, okay.
W: That I can think of.
( . . . )
W: I will have to tell you this. (“OH”) The other evening I (“NO”) thought — you know, Ted, who is our house guest, (“LAW OF DESIRE”) was coming into the apartment. (“THAT WILL BE DECIDED BY YOU”) However, it was not him. (“DID YOU NEED YOUR KEY” “ME”) But I awoke and I smelled my mom’s perfume (“GOOD”) in my bedroom. (“I’M TRYING TO SEE” “STRAIGHT THROUGH”) And it awoke me. And I was calling out for this houseguest, Ted, who was staying here. I said, “Ted, is that you?” (“I” “I’M A LEADER”) And no response. (“AND THE PERFECT” “I — I” “CAROL” “SOON” “TO ME” “BUT I GUESS” “WHAT DO THEY” “E O” “SORRY”) There was this (“LOVE”) fragrance (“YEAH”) that my mom — (“SO MANY”)
Q: Weren’t you glad (“I”) to be visited by (“T”) by her?
W: Well, (“I”) I think it was. And also I will tell this. (“LOVELY” “GO” “ME” “F”) The following day, (“IN IN IN”) my window — we’re on the tenth floor (“THIS AREA”) here in (“SO IT’S IN THE ONLY”) urban Los Angeles. (“AND AND” “SAY THAT” “NO” “YOUR”) This little feather (“THERE’S NO SOUL”) comes (“R Z PENIS” “EXPERIENCE NOT NECESSARILY DIFFERENT” “NO”) floating (“FIRES”) in through my window (“LOVE YOU”) and lands right on my bed as I’m sitting there. And I had no idea who the feather belonged to.
Q: Well, what’s so funny (“I”) about this is that (“I’M A STATE POL[ICE]”) when I was angry at (“HE” “HE I”) Mighael one day, (“A” “I’M A” “LISTEN”) I said — (“DID” “READ — READ THOSE”) well, I said two things. I said, (“PROBABLY NOT”) “Michael, (“WE TRY” “REMEMBER YOU”) I want to see (“HEY”) feathers if you’re really an angel.” (“YOU’RE JUST LIKE I” “REPAIR”)
W: Wow.
Q: And then I also said (“LETTER”) one time when I was mad at Him, (“THERE IS”) “Mighael, I’m going to pull out your white feathers by their black roots.” (“OH IT IS”)
W: It was white. (“L”) It was a little white feather.
Q: Did it have a black root? (laughs)
W: No, not that I remember. (“YOU GOT”)
Q: I don’t really — (“CALLING” “S”)
W: I kept it. (“THAT’S RIGHT”) And then either the next day or the day after (“EXCUSE ME”) was yesterday. I just floated it out the window and it floated down.
Q: Did you ever see the movie “Forrest Gump”? (“SUNDAY”)
W: No, (“WHAT IF”) I’ve not seen that movie at all. (“BROUGHT WITH US” “REPORT” “AA” “TOGETHER”)
Q: See it.
W: Okay.
( . . . )
U: The night before Fassbinder died he was with Regina and Wolfe (“HOTE[L]”) at their (“UM”) dinner party. (“YEAH”) And he was already under the influence. That’s all I know. And actually he was staying with Regina and Wolfe. (“LET ME GO OUT THERE AND BUY”) It wasn’t a dinner party. (“HE DIDN’T TALK ABOUT IT”) He was absent — (“NO”) he was actually staying with them — (“N I” “THEY’LL BE BACK”) staying there — crashing at (“BY HIMSELF” “A” “E”) Wolfe’s pad. (“MICHAEL” or “MIGHAEL”) So make of that what you will. (“SON”) But it was just a day before he died.
Q: A day before?
U: Yeah. He died (“WHY”) of a drug overdose but not in their house. (“WATCH THAT UH BOOK” “EREWHON” [SINGING] “BELL” “WAY”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I PASSED AROUND THE TAPE RECORDER AS AN EXPERIMENT TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY WITHOUT BEING ASKED ANY PARTICULAR QUESTION.)
(“YEAH”)
B: We’re very fortunate to be here for a wonderful evening with a wonderful host and very nice dinner conversation.
T: Well, I’m looking to find someone that’ll enrich my life and complete it. My life is not complete right now. I have wonderful family, wonderful friends and a great life but what’s missing is a partner. And I hope that comes true (“NO”) with all the help of my dear, wonderful, loving friends that are here tonight.
U: Do you love yourself? (“TED”)
T: Well. Claude. Yes.
C: Well, Claude is here visiting wonderful friends he hasn’t been seeing in many years and meeting new friends too. I live in Montreal and I hope I get some visit there anytime. Everybody’s welcome. (“OH SIGH”)
F: I’m ready for dessert.
U: Bonsoir, monsieur.
?: He’s your brother. (“GO GUY” “TED” “REALLY” “NOTHING FROM NOTHING” “UM I OWE”)
T: Do you want more? (“MY PARTS” “NO HE HASN’T” “THAT”)
A: Pleasant evening here and it’s nice to meet some old friends and some new friends.
U: E equals MC cubed. (“OUT” “SEE” “LOS ANGELES”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WHILE I WAS TRANSCRIBING THIS PART OF THE TAPE ON AUGUST 10TH THERE WAS A MASSIVE POWER OUTAGE IN CALIFORNIA AND SIX OTHER STATES FROM AN “UNKNOWN CAUSE.”)
Q: What’s your name because my book’s about names.
A: Adriaan spelled the Dutch way. (“MUCH BETTER THAN YOU THINK”)
Q: And your last name? (“ANN MURRAY” “OO”)
A: Arends.
?: Ooooooo. (“NOW THEN”)
U: Why don’t you just change it to one A? (“YOU GET UM” “SO YOU CAN NOTICE”)
Q: And your friend’s (“I GET UPSET”) last name? (“NO”) I didn’t get his last name before.
A: Mark Gill.
Q: Not to be confused with the other Mark Gill.
A: With a K. (“SOUND SMART” “OOPS”)
U: Oh, this is M — A — R — C? (“NO” “VERY GOOD”)
A: M — A — R — K. (“I KNOW IT’S”)
U: But the other Mark Gill is with a K too. (“LOOM”)
A: Yeah. (“AS” “SSS” “UM-HUH” “I CURE ANYTHING”)
Q: So they’re both Ks.
U: They’re spelled the same. (“OUR HOUSE” “AND IT’S MY”)
Q: Well, isn’t that what is (“C”) known as the doppelgänger? (“NO”)
U: But one is a — the reverse. (“BAD AREA”) The doppelgänger is what is (“LAY”) the reverse of the other. It’s the shadow. A doppelgänger is actually a shadow. Henry James used it a lot (“L E”) in his writing.
Q: Well, it’s the same thing, isn’t it? (“I”)
U: It’s not the exact same person. (“IN LOVE”) No, it’s a shadow of the entity.
Q: Well, this can be seen as a shadow. (“THIS PERSON”)
U: It’s the dark shadow. (“DRIVING” “AROUND”) Like Hyde would be a doppelgänger of (“DOCTOR”) Jekyll. (“I’M SORRY SORR[Y SO]RR[Y]” “SEE ME” “THEY”)
Q: Now would be (“THEY SHARE”) a good time about Marianne and Venus.
F: Like somebody who looks exactly like you.
U: Yeah, right. (“PLOT” “SEX” “CLINIC”)
Q: James, (“I” “THEN”) explain real quick about Marianne and Venus. (“OH HE’S” “SAY WHO”)
U: Somebody couldn’t wait. (“LOOK” “I DON’T”) (laughs) (“MAYA KOYO” “US”) Excuse me — (“TIME”) a flight attendant — not a steward. (“IT’S DARK” “GAY”) Spill something on me.
Q: James, it’s still recording. (“WHAT”) Real quick, tell about Marianne (“IF I”) and Venus. (“PUT IT IN” “DO IT” “F”)
U: Venus. Oh, Venus on the half shell. That was for the American Express commercial. (“THAT”) They spent five hours on a lake in Munich shooting that with Annie Leibovitz shooting it and Marianne (“AS YOUR”) having to distribute all of her (“LL”) rather hefty girth — zaftig frame over this shell that almost sank three times while they were trying to distribute her. Finally, they decided to cement it on to the sand so that she would have no problem.
Q: So she’s channeling Venus.
U: Possibly.
Q: She’s very close to the energy of Venus.
U: Yes, (“BBB”) And they’ve got this long Brunhilda-like hair streaming down her nether lands — nether regions — but are also called the nether lands in Shakespeare. Anyway. And it was very, very Brunhilda-(“HOW HE”)type — very Wagnerian pictures. Very interesting. (“YOUR GUESS”)
( . . . )
A: There, you’ve got (“F LEE”) three different cemeteries: one for the Roman Catholic — (“ONCE AGAIN”)
Q: Name your name and the city again. (“GRAB YOUR HAT” “HEY YOU”)
A: It’s in Aruba in the Dutch Antilles in the Caribbean. (“WAIT TO GET”) and they’ve got (“THROUGH THE” “HURT REAL”) a grave site, of course, (“I”) for the Roman Catholics (“HYSTERICAL”) and then that’s the predominant (“YES EGO”) religion (“WHAT LED”) there; and then one for the Protestants (“I PAY”) and one (“YES”) for the rest, I guess. (“YEAH” “OH MY”) Very similar to the grave sites of New Orleans. (“ABSURD”) It’s all above ground. (“I KNOW” “WHERE DO YOU LIVE”) So you’ve got (“NO”) a family condominium (“LEATHER”) and so they do recycle (“N”) because you run basically out of space over time but, to the point, when you go and pay your respects (“I’M FINE” “YOU LIVE” “VISA”) to the dead, (“BATTLE”) you would go to the (“THERE WERE”) stone on this condominium (“SINCE WE”) facade and knock three times to kind of wake the dead up — that you’re there and you want to (“LET ME DIE” “DO WE ALLOW”) communicate (“VARIOUS SAY”) with them. (“DID I”) You know — somehow spiritually or (“SINCE WE”) whatever the case may be. So you just kind of go through and just one two three. (“NIECE” “BELL”)
Q: There’s a lot of raps on my (“DIE”) cassettes of my interviews that the spirits do the rapping. So rapping has always gone hand in hand with the spirit world.
A: Oh really? Oh.
Q: And give me your name again too so (“THERE WAS”) when I transcribe it later on I can link up your name. (“AA”)
A: Adriaan Arends. (“OH RIGHT” “UM-HUH” “K” “BAD TATTOO” “A R”)
Q: Did you know any of your ancestors? (“I Q” “RED”) Or your mother’s maiden name? (“LIKE A MOVIE” “PROBLEM” “LOOKING IN”)
A: My mother’s maiden name (“DRY”) is Smith. (“LIKE O” “OH YOU’RE KIDDING”) Her father’s from Houston, Texas — (“MOVIE”) one of the first oil-riggers (“BAY HOT WOOD” “I MUST BE GAY”) down in Aruba because of the lake. (“TOO MANY” “LIGHT”) Maracaibo oil. (“A” “DO” “TOSS THE DIME”) Quant (“TT” “LISTEN”) — La Clay, (“MINUTE” “THAN”) which is French. I’m half French. (“YOKO” “OKAY”) I think that’s it. Arends. La Clay. (“WE MEET” “NOVEMBER”) Quant. (“TT”) And Smith. (“NOISE”)
Q: Wow.
A: Um-huh. (“YOU SHOULD” “FAE WELL NOW”)
Q: You should go back further and (“NEIGHBOR”) try to see what (“SOME”) you can find about your family tree. (“GENERAL” “DRESS”)
A: Yeah. Actually my dad has done so. And the family — (“GOES”) actually about six generations ago (“CELEBRATE” “MOBY”) one of eleven brothers from Holland (“ELLEN” “DIE”) crossed the Atlantic on a schooner and sailed into Aruba. Now the last name Arends (“I”) is like what Smith is (“WHY ARE YOU”) or Jones is here (“WE”) in the states. (“FACE” “I SEE”)
A lot of the locals have that name.
Q: Okay, well nice meeting you.
A: Nice to meet you, too.
( . . . )
F: What do you want to talk about?
Q: What’s this religion? What’s your religion? (“BLOOD”) That you mentioned just a moment ago?
F: Well, actually my religion is not a religion (“A”) but, more, spirituality. Since I am not into any religion (“RIGHT”) that is manmade —
Q: Right. (“NEW”)
F: — but rather into spirituality, which I see the source of every religion. See, there’s spirituality and there’s God. And I love God. I really do. (“LOVE YOU”) But in all of (“I HEAR”) aspects. (“YOU’RE NI[CE]”) I meditate. I pray every morning. (“YOU’RE GOOD”) Every night. (“I”)
Q: I have a feeling you’re going to do very well in Los Angeles.
F: (laughs) People keep on saying that. (“NO”) But I mean I like — when I pray in the morning — when I meditate (“YOU”) I get Jesus, Shiva, Krishna, Buddha, (“SING”) Bhãva, (“ART”) Hanuman, Ganesh — like the whole spiel. I just want to make sure I got it all covered. I mean, like, everything. (“HE LIKES ME”)
Q: And where do you go to church on Sundays?
F: Sundays I like to go to Agape, which is a Science of Mind religious science church. It has nothing to do with Scientology. Everybody in L.A. knows about it. (“NEAR”) It’s more the Louise Hay/Marianne Williamson tradition that uses Science of Mind and Course in Miracles (“I”) kind of —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #47, SIDE #2 ENDS HERE.)
S: It’s inspired. (“WHO”) Whoever happened to have been the channel, it is definitely a —
Q: Did you go to Old St. Paul’s Church?
S: No. (“NO”) This was actually inherited from an aunt of mine who’s very special to me. She had it in her bathroom in New York and I inherited it when she passed away.
Q: Do you know where the original is? What museum?
S: That’s a good question. I really don’t know. (“I SEE”) That would be a good thing to find out. (“YEAH”) I’m sure we could call that church and they would tell us. It may be there at the church framed or something.
Q: Of course, if I ever see it at an antique store I’ll just pick one up.
S: Of course.
( . . . )
S: I have my little guardian angel. Angelyne. In the poster with an unobstructed view from apartment 10-H. (small laugh)
Q: She’s blowing you a kiss.
S: She sure is.
( . . . )
F: Hi. My name is Franc. My hobbies are — no, I’m just kidding. The symbol — Ekeloes means oak leaves. The oak. I actually just took that name on about a year ago. It was my mother’s maiden name. And I did not know that much about it. I only knew I wanted to get rid of my father’s last name and I wanted to take on my mother’s maiden name which was from Sweden.
Q: And what was his name?
F: His name was Tausch. And I wanted to (“OUT”) take on — like which means borrowing, trading — (“ABUSE”)
Q: Spell that.
F: T — A — U — S — C — H.
U: (laughs) (“VAULT”) That’s a Jewish symbol. (“MAR”)
F: S — H — I — T. But, (small laugh) like, (“STAY”) equals S — H — I — T. (“RIGHT NOW”) Anyway, so I took on my mother’s maiden name. I just knew that it’s beautiful like oak leaves. (“BEAUTIFUL — BEAUTIFUL”) I’m an immortalist, meaning, like, physical immortality. (“SOME”)
Q: Right. (“INHABIT US”)
F: And then, (“ALL OF ME”) I did not know (“THE DOW” or “THE TAO” “SOME”) that much about it. I knew the name was beautiful. (“SENT”) The next thing I know (“BEAUTY MARKS”) is a friend of mine tells me, (“I”) “Listen” — (“APPARENT TREE”) this is actually not a weird story. (“REPAIR”) This is just like (“UM-HUH”) talking about my name (“SAY”) and it’s not —
Q: They’re all weird stories. (“THEY’RE ALL WEIRD”)
U: Well, to him everything’s weird. (“WHAT IS D — YOUR STATE” “LIKE THE KISS” “LIKE THE KI[SS]”)
F: There you go. (“LISTEN”) Am I going to end up in your book? (“REWARD”) Anyway, so, (“BELL WITCH” “LET’S GO” “D THIR[D]” “IT’S SONY”) the next day, a friend of mine tells me, “Did you know that the meaning of the name is oak leaves, which are immortal?” (“FUN”) And she’s not an immortalist at all. (“MY BOOK”) She knows I am an immortalist but she doesn’t know anything about the whole scene. She said, “Did you know that oak leaves are immortal? They are the last leafs to fall from the tree.” (“ARE THE HOLY”)
Q: So before you took the name (“SO IT’S LIKE”) you didn’t even know that when you took the name.
F: No. (“ZZ”) I didn’t know that.
U: (laughs)
F: I just knew that I wanted to take my mother’s maiden name.
U: (claps once) (“THE WATER” “WHAT DO YOU MEAN”)
F: And the next thing I said —
Q: My mother’s maiden name was King, by the way. (“FRANC YOU’RE GAY”)
F: Oh, and aren’t you a king? (“YES”)
Q: Leo the lion.
F: Is Leo your first name?
Q: No. My astrological sign is Leo.
F: Alrighty. (“WHO CARES”) I’m a Scorpio. (“WATCHES” “AHHHHHH” “FOR”) The next thing I know is that another friend tells me, (“IS”) “Did you know not only are they the last leaves to fall from the tree, therefore being immortal, but did you know that it takes them seven years to dissolve in the ground?” (“THE LION KING”) I guess other leaves falling from the trees are just sort of dissolving. Oak leaves are (“FIVE”) just there for seven years. (“GOOD”) The next thing is (“SOME GUY”) I’m getting a car. (“STOP”) I’m getting this beautiful 1964 Cadillac Coup de Ville. Beautiful. (“OH”) I call him the Black Beauty. (“GET OUT”) She’s too beautiful. A lot of chrome and all the spiel. (“HIS MONEY” “TO MARK” “LISTEN”) I mean my name would be oak leaves in English. (“SET YOUR MIND”) The license plate is 2OKV and then three numbers. (“YEAH”) Not really weird — it’s just I love this name so much. (“I SHOT M” “NEIL” “OH THAT’S WHEN”)
Q: What were the three numbers? Do you remember? (“I NEED THIS” “HHH” “LOVE”)
F: Actually I don’t, to tell you the truth.
Q: Any sevens in it?
F: Yes, there’s a seven in it (“I LOVE”) but I (“I HELD LADY”) just can’t — (“YES”) this is like — (“YOU”) it was just when I discovered — (“THROUGH ME”)
Q: And you’re an actor. (“NO”) What (“WHA[T] — HOW”) recent films have you been in?
F: I was in a French Canadian/German co-production in Germany, which is to be released next year; a series that I starred in —
Q: Entitled? What was the title?
F: I only know the working title.
Q: That’s okay. Fine. (“FOR”) I’m sure it has a symbolic meaning. So (“OKAY”) tell me what it is.
F: . . . (it’s) a German title which means ‘Head Over Heels.’ That might even be the title. I don’t know. Like ‘head over heels” — (“YEAH”) (snaps fingers) (“LIKE VICK”)
Q: By the way, that was — (“THE”)
F: It was directed by Niki Müllerschön. (“IT WAS”)
Q: — the actor snapped his fingers and not ‘my’ Entity, Mighael. (“JUST”) That’s just for my transcription notes. (“FOR LOVE” “KEN”) He loves — (“PHOTO”) there’s a few sounds He really likes. (“UM”) Like in — (“AA”) anyway, that’s one of them. (“THOSE”)
F: Alrighty. (“NN”) Niki Müllerschön is the director — (“I COME” “I” “WHO NE”) who, after he finished this movie, moved to the Pacific Palisades. He’s a German director and now he has two American movie deals up his sleeve. And then my series premiered December 11th on European television — RTL.
Q: What’s it called?
F: It’s called “Scheidungsgricht,” which means ‘Divorce Court’ / ‘Court of Divorce,’ in which I’m a divorce lawyer. And before that I had my own TV show on Premiere Television in Europe for three years which was “Kino ’93” and “Kino ’94.”
Q: “K — I — N — O”?
F: N — O. There you go. On Premiere Television. (“YEAH”)
Q: I’m surprised it isn’t “K — E — N — O.”
F: (laughs) And, well, how did we actually —
Q: Speaking of games of chance.
F: Right.
Q: An actor’s career is a game of chance. (“A”)
F: Why — where does Keno come in there?
Q: Well, it’s a gambling game.
F: Oh, okay. (“HOUSE”) There you go.
Q: Keno. Somebody else can explain Keno. (small laugh)
F: Are you an immortalist?
Q: I’m sure I am. I’m everything else so I might as well be that too. Well, let’s just say I’m beginning to suspect I’m the reincarnation of Bel-Marduk.
F: Of whom?
Q: Bel-Marduk. The god (Amun-)Ra. I found this old Egyptian pendant and it has a picture of me dressed up like (“RIGHT”) the god (Amun-)Ra.
F: Oh my goodness. (“YA”)
Q: Yeah. (“BY BOAT” “DON’T”)
F: Think (“VERY WELL”) of us as gods. (“OUT HERE”)
Q: That’s embarrassing.
F: From one god to another, come on.
Q: What god are you?
F: I’m just the — I would say — not a specific god. I just know that God resides (“YEAH”) within me.
Q: Well, that’s true for everyone. (“THAT”)
F: Well, most people are not aware of that. This is why all the shit is going on.
Q: Exactly.
F: If people were aware of that I don’t think that there would be any wars, any starvation, any injustice — any shit going on.
Q: That’s one of the themes of my book.
F: Which is? Which one?
Q: The theme you just mentioned is one of the themes of my book.
F: Wow. Alright. Perfect. I’ll see you at the Bodhi Tree, I guess.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE BODHI TREE IS A WELL-KNOWN METAPHYSICAL BOOKSTORE IN WEST LOS ANGELES.)
F: But physical mortality, which is my favorite topic of the moment next to the HIV myth. You know that sex and HIV have nothing to do with AIDS, right? I mean that’s, like, one of the things —
Q: You’re talking to someone who volunteers on the Southern California HIV/AIDS Hotline so — (“NO”)
F: Oh my God, are you working for APLA? These guys are suppressing the truth.
Q: The Hotline is separate from APLA. (“HAVE” “BUT” “SO”)
F: What kind of hotline?
Q: It’s an HIV hotline. However — you can give the ‘alternative’ (“PAINFUL” “OKAY”) belief but do it very quickly.
F: Well, this is really true and important to do things quickly because I’m really serious here. But I mean the — (“YOU KNOW”) first of all, you know Peter Duesberg? He’s one of the main scientists and micro-virologists. He works out of the University of Berkeley and he discovered years and years ago when Gallo said that HIV is causing AIDS — he said that this is —
U: Now this is getting interesting.
F: — a hoax. This is absolutely not true. I don’t believe in Gallo. I believe in Duesberg. How can you not? Have you known anybody who died of AIDS who did not take AZT or ddI? You probably haven’t. Maybe if that person died of a —
Q: Actually, I do.
U: Well, yeah, if they took AZT they could still die of AIDS.
F: Well, then did that person — (“LOOK”) did you know AZT was a drug that was out in the ’40s, ’50s and ’60s? They shelved it because people were dying from it. (“I KNOW”) And it has a label — a warning —
U: Marianne Sagebrecht sent me a 50-page (“MARK”) thing about how AZT kills leukocytes, the white blood cells. And it’s true.
F: It’s the terminator. What AZT does —
U: But —
F: — it goes into your body and it terminates every single cell there is. It does not know whether to —
U: No no no no, it’s not —
F: No, this is exactly what’s going on. (“THIS IS LIKE”)
U: Now mixed with 3TC — AZT and 3TC create a reaction which the body selects as a major pressure to select the 3TC. It’s the one hope now. It’s a combination therapy. So AZT — even if you’re (“GO”) immune to it — if it kills you — with the combination of 3TC it’s a lot less harmful and it stops more of the virus.
F: It still (“NOT WORKING”) causes all kinds of cancer (“WHAT” “I AGREE”) because it causes basically, if you read the labels and if you get a label it might be interesting for you to do. (“START LOOKING AT”) A label from the manufacturers — (“FOR ENOUGH WAIVERS”) of the side effects. All the side effects are the diseases known as AIDS. People that are tested HIV-positive are being put on light dosages of AZT and the shit begins to hit the fan because at first they feel great and then the decay starts and I give them two to four years and these people are out of here.
U: But when you add the protease inhibitors?
F: What?
U: Okay, now — AZT is one of what are called nucleoside analogues / reverse transcriptase inhibitors, which only work when the virus is outside the cell — when it’s infected the cell lining. What the protease inhibitors are a whole new family of drugs which actually stop the virus once it’s infected the cells.
F: That brings us to the next step, which is —
U: Which does not kill like AZT does.
F: Right. However, HIV is found to be a totally harmless virus. And people that are dying of AIDS — and I’m not saying — I didn’t write this. There were big books in my —
U: I know.
F: What do you mean “I know”? I could have written it — could have discovered it.
U: Because I know you didn’t write it.
F: But I mean — okay.
U: I don’t believe an actor can write. (“THIS”) I’m sorry, I just —
F: That is unbelievable —
U: I’m telling you . . .
F: (joking) I’m out of here! Cancel! (“RIGHT — I”) Okay.
Q: But do you realize you’re scaring a lot of people? (“NO”)
F: No, I’m not. The truth can never scare people. The truth may scare companies like Boehringer and —
U: Wellcome.
F: — like Hoffmann-La Roche. And like all these people. (“LOS AN[GELES]”)
Q: But you’re not saying that people should not practice safe sex.
F: All I know is that sex produces life. And I don’t see any — I mean you are a product of sex. (“NO BUT”) These are products of sex. I’m a product of sex.
Q: But, obviously, HIV is virus-related so there is a virus in there somewhere.
F: Yes, but what I’m trying to get at here is that the people who die of AIDS and who obviously have the zillions of AIDS viruses in their body, when they look for the virus in their bodies they can not find them and not a single case of any person who has died of AIDS (“SHOE” “CARE” “AND EACH”) has there been a sufficient amount — a little bit here and there — but a sufficient amount that could actually kill you. Plus, if the virus multiplies the way that Gallo and all these people say that it does —
Q: Well, more research needs to be done.
F: No, there’s a — I’m just trying to get this all in there in five minutes.
Q: My friend Sam didn’t take any drugs and he had HIV and he died of it.
F: Alright. What did he die of?
Q: One of the opportunistic infections.
F: Which is what?
Q: Kaposi’s sarcoma.
F: See, this is the whole thing. Before AIDS, people would die of anything — like leukemia or whatever. And it was leukemia. Now, with HIV, it’s leukemia and HIV is AIDS. Before that, it was — leukemia is leukemia. Now, people die of skin cancer — now when they have HIV it’s skin cancer and HIV equals AIDS.
U: But this is different than before. This is not like dying of leukemia. You’re saying this is just a substitute death for leukemia. (“IT”) No, it’s an additional death.
F: Howev(er) — yeah, right, but if — if I may just say this. (“DORIS” “THEY” “THEY BEAT”) Particular things that have been going on in the last ten years, which is when most people have died, has also been an effect of people who were at that time in the ’70s and ’80s taking a lot of drugs. (“UM”) This is why most homosexual people are affected (“CAUCASIAN”) because in those scenes people took a lot of poppers, which is (“IT”) responsible for Kaposi’s — (“THAT’S”)
Q: This has been a good discussion. (“DUESBERG”) But let me just bring it to a conclusion really quick. (“SOFT” “PORN” “PAST MOVIE”)
F: Can I just say Peter Duesberg — read his stuff. (“PICK”)
Q: No. (“NEW”) No. (“N Y R”) The best person to call for information is the HIV/AIDS Hotline because —
F: Well, who’s behind it? (“WE”) APLA?
Q: No no no no. It’s affiliated with APLA but it’s separate.
F: Who’s behind it?
Q: It’s its own entity. But let me just tell you real quick. If you want to worry about something, have you been to a dentist recently? (“WE DID”)
F: No.
Q: When’s the last time you saw a dentist?
F: Hmm. (speaking with teeth clenched) I’m not really sure.
U: (small laugh)
Q: Never?
F: Dentists are unemployed if they have to come to my teeth so —
U: Well, are you talking about gums? Bleeding gums? (“PERFECT”) What? (“WHAT I’M SAY”)
Q: I’m just saying it has come to my attention that dentists might be passing on — (“WELL”)
U: Well, that one girl in Florida. (“H I V”)
Q: No. That was unsubstantiated. (“SHE WAS LYING”)
U: Well, she was twenty-one.
Q: She was lying. No, she didn’t know. It was a strain that was loose in that particular community.
U: Oh.
M: She claimed to be a virgin.
Q: She didn’t know.
U: Ohh. Oh, that’s interesting. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Well, say that again. (“C” “SHE’S”)
U: What was her name? Karen something?
M: According to “Sixty Minutes,” she was a total slut before any of that ever happened.
Q: And what’s your name again?
M: My name’s Mark. (“YEAH” “K” “HER”) What was her name?
Q: K or a C?
U: Yeah, uh-huh. I remember.
M: It wasn’t Karen.
U: She was twenty-two or twenty-three when she died.
M: Kimberly Bergalis.
U: Kimberly Bergalis.
F: Well, that’s one case. Plus this is once again all the media behind this. This stuff you will not hear on the primetime news which is sponsored by all thebig pharmaceutical industries. You will not hear about it. If you read Peter Duesberg’s books —
Q: Well, I don’t know about Peter Duesberg but if you want good information call (“WHY”) the Southern California HIV/AIDS Hotline. (“HOW IS”)
F: Peter Duesberg is the author of two recent books on the HIV myth. And then you can also get other books, such as AIDS Incorporated by John Rappoport. And (“THE”) those are (“PP”) great authors to read.
Q: Well, I don’t know about how good they are but I have to say a lot of people who don’t know what they’re doing call and leave harassing (“HEATER”) messages to the people working at the Hotline or they call and they hang up. (“TAKE ANOTHER”) Please do not do this. (“THEY”) This hotline is an outlet for people in the community who really need help. (“FOR”) So every time (“THAT PERSON”) one of these radicals does this it’s very, very bad and damaging and not good karma. (“NO HERE WE ALL ARE SON”)
( . . . )
W: Do I really have to? (“JUST”)
Q: For me. Make it easy.
W: Okay. My name is Walt Shifler. My mom passed away on February 1st, 1994. However, prior to that, December of ’93, (“OKAY”) I had (“A”) come across or arrived to a book known as Embraced By The Light by Betty J. Eadie who had experienced an after-death experience. And I found it to help me through the passing of my mom who I was very close to (“GO NOW”) and what on (“MY”) — and I only read part of it once I first purchased it. However, after the passing of my mom, I read the book and it helped me to further understand the — (“I GET”) if you want to call it the process or life and death or cycle or whatever (“NO”) of our own mortality.
Q: And have you had any airplane experiences? (“CAN HANDLE THIS”)
W: No. (“DO LO[VE]”)
Q: No. Okay. (“S FAIR” “CONAN” “UM”) And any dreams about your mom or —
W: A few. When I was sitting there talking to her. We were sitting on a table (“NO”) and whatnot. But I really don’t recall what we were speaking there of and —
Q: I’ve had that happen too where I’ve had dreams. You can’t remember them. (“I”)
W: I remember it. This situation. But I really don’t remember the (“YEAH”) specific details of what we were speaking of there.
Q: That’s what happened to me once when my angel and I were discussing whether or not to have sex.
W: Oh really?
Q: And as soon as I woke up I could not remember what we said.
W: Really?
Q: (laughs) (“BE MY” “PARK” “PALM”) So that’s interesting.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE ARE FIVE DIFFERENT “YES” OR “YEAH”S ON TAPE THAT ARE DIFFICULT TO ATTRIBUTE PRECEDING AND FOLLOWING MY COMMENT.)
(“SO”)
W: Well, this is Walt again. And I was overnighting the other evening in Portland, Oregon (“I STILL DON’T LOVE YOU”) when on one of — (“B”) Showtime or Cinemax or HBO, the movie (“SSS SSS”) “Stargate” played. (“THAT’S RIGHT”) I did not go to see it when it (“COME ON”) was promoted or whatever. I knew of it but I really did not (“N”) know any details, (“I LOVE YOU” “THERE” “LAZY”) you know, (“MOM”) of the movie. (“I CAN GO WITH HIM”) But I really (“BELIEF”) found it interesting — (“MOSS” “THE BILL”) the way that they found this transport system between different worlds or galaxies. (“DIDN’T TURN OUT TO BE”) And when they arrived on the other side of the galaxy (“NO” “THERE”) they found a similar civilization as though we were truly planted here on planet Earth.
Q: Do you believe that? (“OR FROM” “UM”)
W: I will say this. I don’t necessarily believe that we evolved from primates but I do believe, however, there is a possibility that we were planted here. Yes. (“WELL PLUS”) We were placed here.
Q: Egypt lasted a long time. So if there is such a thing as reincarnation you probably had a life in Egypt at one point. (“THIRTY-NINE”)
W: Possibly. (“COME HERE”) But I really found that interesting. (“MARK KOSTABI” “FOR A” “CREDIBLE”) And to see (“FIRST TIME”) that — the fact (“YES”) that the Giza (“YOU”) Pyramid (“MONDAY” “WHAT IF THEY COME”) and (“MY BELATED”) that part of Egypt — (“ELIOT”) and the fact that — (“FRONTIER”) —
Q: Mighael is tickling me (“UM-HUH”) on my ear.
W: Really? (“BECAU[SE]”)
Q: If he tickles you, say something.
W: I will. (“BUT UM”)
Q: Well, you know in that movie (“PRESS”) the god Ra — (“FREE”) another name for him (“LESS”) was Bel-Marduk.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS INTERVIEW WAS DONE BEFORE I REALIZED THAT ZECHARIA SITCHIN’S MENTION OF RA IN HIS BOOK PROBABLY REFERS TO THE GOD AMUN-RA.)
W: Really?
Q: And I found a picture of the god (Amun-)Ra that looks just like me.
W: Wow. I really didn’t appreciate the actor that portrayed (“YOU KNOW”) Ra in that movie but — (“YOU’RE REALLY” “NICE”) he was kind of —
Q: What was his name? Jaye Davidson from “The Crying Game”?
W: Right. But (“GETTING TO KNOW YOU I”) I just found that was interesting that they didn’t cast a different character — someone like a Yul Brynner-type. (“OR”) You know, just (“I LO[VE]”) a real tyrannical person. But I found it real interesting — the fact that there is this possibility. (“NO — I HURRY”) And then, subconsciously, that (“A FEW WEEKS AGO”) there is some truth to the (“YOU LIKE [F]ALLING ASLEEP”) the entire film that (“LASSO” “MAYBE”) there is such a thing.
Q: Well, the next time I see you I’ll bring this pendant I have. It looks just like me. (“JAMAICA”) Just like me. (“I’M ENROLLED” “NO”) I don’t know what it means. (“HE TOOK THIS”) I don’t know if it means I’m the reincarnation (“ONLY THIS”) or if I’m close to his energy but the fact that I look so much like him —
W: Um-huh.
Q: — makes me think that reincarnation is a definite possibility.
W: Right. (“ANOTHER” “NO”) You know, some cultures on Earth believe that. (“FOR HOW MANY” “MOVIES”)
Q: Exactly. (“YEAH” “WHETHER WE”) Well, thank you (“NO”) for this interview.
W: You’re welcome.
Q: Do you have any other strange experiences or memories?
W: At this moment no.
Q: No, okay.
W: That I can think of.
( . . . )
W: I will have to tell you this. (“OH”) The other evening I (“NO”) thought — you know, Ted, who is our house guest, (“LAW OF DESIRE”) was coming into the apartment. (“THAT WILL BE DECIDED BY YOU”) However, it was not him. (“DID YOU NEED YOUR KEY” “ME”) But I awoke and I smelled my mom’s perfume (“GOOD”) in my bedroom. (“I’M TRYING TO SEE” “STRAIGHT THROUGH”) And it awoke me. And I was calling out for this houseguest, Ted, who was staying here. I said, “Ted, is that you?” (“I” “I’M A LEADER”) And no response. (“AND THE PERFECT” “I — I” “CAROL” “SOON” “TO ME” “BUT I GUESS” “WHAT DO THEY” “E O” “SORRY”) There was this (“LOVE”) fragrance (“YEAH”) that my mom — (“SO MANY”)
Q: Weren’t you glad (“I”) to be visited by (“T”) by her?
W: Well, (“I”) I think it was. And also I will tell this. (“LOVELY” “GO” “ME” “F”) The following day, (“IN IN IN”) my window — we’re on the tenth floor (“THIS AREA”) here in (“SO IT’S IN THE ONLY”) urban Los Angeles. (“AND AND” “SAY THAT” “NO” “YOUR”) This little feather (“THERE’S NO SOUL”) comes (“R Z PENIS” “EXPERIENCE NOT NECESSARILY DIFFERENT” “NO”) floating (“FIRES”) in through my window (“LOVE YOU”) and lands right on my bed as I’m sitting there. And I had no idea who the feather belonged to.
Q: Well, what’s so funny (“I”) about this is that (“I’M A STATE POL[ICE]”) when I was angry at (“HE” “HE I”) Mighael one day, (“A” “I’M A” “LISTEN”) I said — (“DID” “READ — READ THOSE”) well, I said two things. I said, (“PROBABLY NOT”) “Michael, (“WE TRY” “REMEMBER YOU”) I want to see (“HEY”) feathers if you’re really an angel.” (“YOU’RE JUST LIKE I” “REPAIR”)
W: Wow.
Q: And then I also said (“LETTER”) one time when I was mad at Him, (“THERE IS”) “Mighael, I’m going to pull out your white feathers by their black roots.” (“OH IT IS”)
W: It was white. (“L”) It was a little white feather.
Q: Did it have a black root? (laughs)
W: No, not that I remember. (“YOU GOT”)
Q: I don’t really — (“CALLING” “S”)
W: I kept it. (“THAT’S RIGHT”) And then either the next day or the day after (“EXCUSE ME”) was yesterday. I just floated it out the window and it floated down.
Q: Did you ever see the movie “Forrest Gump”? (“SUNDAY”)
W: No, (“WHAT IF”) I’ve not seen that movie at all. (“BROUGHT WITH US” “REPORT” “AA” “TOGETHER”)
Q: See it.
W: Okay.
( . . . )
U: The night before Fassbinder died he was with Regina and Wolfe (“HOTE[L]”) at their (“UM”) dinner party. (“YEAH”) And he was already under the influence. That’s all I know. And actually he was staying with Regina and Wolfe. (“LET ME GO OUT THERE AND BUY”) It wasn’t a dinner party. (“HE DIDN’T TALK ABOUT IT”) He was absent — (“NO”) he was actually staying with them — (“N I” “THEY’LL BE BACK”) staying there — crashing at (“BY HIMSELF” “A” “E”) Wolfe’s pad. (“MICHAEL” or “MIGHAEL”) So make of that what you will. (“SON”) But it was just a day before he died.
Q: A day before?
U: Yeah. He died (“WHY”) of a drug overdose but not in their house. (“WATCH THAT UH BOOK” “EREWHON” [SINGING] “BELL” “WAY”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I PASSED AROUND THE TAPE RECORDER AS AN EXPERIMENT TO SEE WHAT PEOPLE WOULD SAY WITHOUT BEING ASKED ANY PARTICULAR QUESTION.)
(“YEAH”)
B: We’re very fortunate to be here for a wonderful evening with a wonderful host and very nice dinner conversation.
T: Well, I’m looking to find someone that’ll enrich my life and complete it. My life is not complete right now. I have wonderful family, wonderful friends and a great life but what’s missing is a partner. And I hope that comes true (“NO”) with all the help of my dear, wonderful, loving friends that are here tonight.
U: Do you love yourself? (“TED”)
T: Well. Claude. Yes.
C: Well, Claude is here visiting wonderful friends he hasn’t been seeing in many years and meeting new friends too. I live in Montreal and I hope I get some visit there anytime. Everybody’s welcome. (“OH SIGH”)
F: I’m ready for dessert.
U: Bonsoir, monsieur.
?: He’s your brother. (“GO GUY” “TED” “REALLY” “NOTHING FROM NOTHING” “UM I OWE”)
T: Do you want more? (“MY PARTS” “NO HE HASN’T” “THAT”)
A: Pleasant evening here and it’s nice to meet some old friends and some new friends.
U: E equals MC cubed. (“OUT” “SEE” “LOS ANGELES”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WHILE I WAS TRANSCRIBING THIS PART OF THE TAPE ON AUGUST 10TH THERE WAS A MASSIVE POWER OUTAGE IN CALIFORNIA AND SIX OTHER STATES FROM AN “UNKNOWN CAUSE.”)
Q: What’s your name because my book’s about names.
A: Adriaan spelled the Dutch way. (“MUCH BETTER THAN YOU THINK”)
Q: And your last name? (“ANN MURRAY” “OO”)
A: Arends.
?: Ooooooo. (“NOW THEN”)
U: Why don’t you just change it to one A? (“YOU GET UM” “SO YOU CAN NOTICE”)
Q: And your friend’s (“I GET UPSET”) last name? (“NO”) I didn’t get his last name before.
A: Mark Gill.
Q: Not to be confused with the other Mark Gill.
A: With a K. (“SOUND SMART” “OOPS”)
U: Oh, this is M — A — R — C? (“NO” “VERY GOOD”)
A: M — A — R — K. (“I KNOW IT’S”)
U: But the other Mark Gill is with a K too. (“LOOM”)
A: Yeah. (“AS” “SSS” “UM-HUH” “I CURE ANYTHING”)
Q: So they’re both Ks.
U: They’re spelled the same. (“OUR HOUSE” “AND IT’S MY”)
Q: Well, isn’t that what is (“C”) known as the doppelgänger? (“NO”)
U: But one is a — the reverse. (“BAD AREA”) The doppelgänger is what is (“LAY”) the reverse of the other. It’s the shadow. A doppelgänger is actually a shadow. Henry James used it a lot (“L E”) in his writing.
Q: Well, it’s the same thing, isn’t it? (“I”)
U: It’s not the exact same person. (“IN LOVE”) No, it’s a shadow of the entity.
Q: Well, this can be seen as a shadow. (“THIS PERSON”)
U: It’s the dark shadow. (“DRIVING” “AROUND”) Like Hyde would be a doppelgänger of (“DOCTOR”) Jekyll. (“I’M SORRY SORR[Y SO]RR[Y]” “SEE ME” “THEY”)
Q: Now would be (“THEY SHARE”) a good time about Marianne and Venus.
F: Like somebody who looks exactly like you.
U: Yeah, right. (“PLOT” “SEX” “CLINIC”)
Q: James, (“I” “THEN”) explain real quick about Marianne and Venus. (“OH HE’S” “SAY WHO”)
U: Somebody couldn’t wait. (“LOOK” “I DON’T”) (laughs) (“MAYA KOYO” “US”) Excuse me — (“TIME”) a flight attendant — not a steward. (“IT’S DARK” “GAY”) Spill something on me.
Q: James, it’s still recording. (“WHAT”) Real quick, tell about Marianne (“IF I”) and Venus. (“PUT IT IN” “DO IT” “F”)
U: Venus. Oh, Venus on the half shell. That was for the American Express commercial. (“THAT”) They spent five hours on a lake in Munich shooting that with Annie Leibovitz shooting it and Marianne (“AS YOUR”) having to distribute all of her (“LL”) rather hefty girth — zaftig frame over this shell that almost sank three times while they were trying to distribute her. Finally, they decided to cement it on to the sand so that she would have no problem.
Q: So she’s channeling Venus.
U: Possibly.
Q: She’s very close to the energy of Venus.
U: Yes, (“BBB”) And they’ve got this long Brunhilda-like hair streaming down her nether lands — nether regions — but are also called the nether lands in Shakespeare. Anyway. And it was very, very Brunhilda-(“HOW HE”)type — very Wagnerian pictures. Very interesting. (“YOUR GUESS”)
( . . . )
A: There, you’ve got (“F LEE”) three different cemeteries: one for the Roman Catholic — (“ONCE AGAIN”)
Q: Name your name and the city again. (“GRAB YOUR HAT” “HEY YOU”)
A: It’s in Aruba in the Dutch Antilles in the Caribbean. (“WAIT TO GET”) and they’ve got (“THROUGH THE” “HURT REAL”) a grave site, of course, (“I”) for the Roman Catholics (“HYSTERICAL”) and then that’s the predominant (“YES EGO”) religion (“WHAT LED”) there; and then one for the Protestants (“I PAY”) and one (“YES”) for the rest, I guess. (“YEAH” “OH MY”) Very similar to the grave sites of New Orleans. (“ABSURD”) It’s all above ground. (“I KNOW” “WHERE DO YOU LIVE”) So you’ve got (“NO”) a family condominium (“LEATHER”) and so they do recycle (“N”) because you run basically out of space over time but, to the point, when you go and pay your respects (“I’M FINE” “YOU LIVE” “VISA”) to the dead, (“BATTLE”) you would go to the (“THERE WERE”) stone on this condominium (“SINCE WE”) facade and knock three times to kind of wake the dead up — that you’re there and you want to (“LET ME DIE” “DO WE ALLOW”) communicate (“VARIOUS SAY”) with them. (“DID I”) You know — somehow spiritually or (“SINCE WE”) whatever the case may be. So you just kind of go through and just one two three. (“NIECE” “BELL”)
Q: There’s a lot of raps on my (“DIE”) cassettes of my interviews that the spirits do the rapping. So rapping has always gone hand in hand with the spirit world.
A: Oh really? Oh.
Q: And give me your name again too so (“THERE WAS”) when I transcribe it later on I can link up your name. (“AA”)
A: Adriaan Arends. (“OH RIGHT” “UM-HUH” “K” “BAD TATTOO” “A R”)
Q: Did you know any of your ancestors? (“I Q” “RED”) Or your mother’s maiden name? (“LIKE A MOVIE” “PROBLEM” “LOOKING IN”)
A: My mother’s maiden name (“DRY”) is Smith. (“LIKE O” “OH YOU’RE KIDDING”) Her father’s from Houston, Texas — (“MOVIE”) one of the first oil-riggers (“BAY HOT WOOD” “I MUST BE GAY”) down in Aruba because of the lake. (“TOO MANY” “LIGHT”) Maracaibo oil. (“A” “DO” “TOSS THE DIME”) Quant (“TT” “LISTEN”) — La Clay, (“MINUTE” “THAN”) which is French. I’m half French. (“YOKO” “OKAY”) I think that’s it. Arends. La Clay. (“WE MEET” “NOVEMBER”) Quant. (“TT”) And Smith. (“NOISE”)
Q: Wow.
A: Um-huh. (“YOU SHOULD” “FAE WELL NOW”)
Q: You should go back further and (“NEIGHBOR”) try to see what (“SOME”) you can find about your family tree. (“GENERAL” “DRESS”)
A: Yeah. Actually my dad has done so. And the family — (“GOES”) actually about six generations ago (“CELEBRATE” “MOBY”) one of eleven brothers from Holland (“ELLEN” “DIE”) crossed the Atlantic on a schooner and sailed into Aruba. Now the last name Arends (“I”) is like what Smith is (“WHY ARE YOU”) or Jones is here (“WE”) in the states. (“FACE” “I SEE”)
A lot of the locals have that name.
Q: Okay, well nice meeting you.
A: Nice to meet you, too.
( . . . )
F: What do you want to talk about?
Q: What’s this religion? What’s your religion? (“BLOOD”) That you mentioned just a moment ago?
F: Well, actually my religion is not a religion (“A”) but, more, spirituality. Since I am not into any religion (“RIGHT”) that is manmade —
Q: Right. (“NEW”)
F: — but rather into spirituality, which I see the source of every religion. See, there’s spirituality and there’s God. And I love God. I really do. (“LOVE YOU”) But in all of (“I HEAR”) aspects. (“YOU’RE NI[CE]”) I meditate. I pray every morning. (“YOU’RE GOOD”) Every night. (“I”)
Q: I have a feeling you’re going to do very well in Los Angeles.
F: (laughs) People keep on saying that. (“NO”) But I mean I like — when I pray in the morning — when I meditate (“YOU”) I get Jesus, Shiva, Krishna, Buddha, (“SING”) Bhãva, (“ART”) Hanuman, Ganesh — like the whole spiel. I just want to make sure I got it all covered. I mean, like, everything. (“HE LIKES ME”)
Q: And where do you go to church on Sundays?
F: Sundays I like to go to Agape, which is a Science of Mind religious science church. It has nothing to do with Scientology. Everybody in L.A. knows about it. (“NEAR”) It’s more the Louise Hay/Marianne Williamson tradition that uses Science of Mind and Course in Miracles (“I”) kind of —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #47, SIDE #2 ENDS HERE.)
