INTERVIEW — TAPE #32, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell Bell
I: Marie Todd (friend)
B: Michael Paul Russell (my twin brother)
Y: Andy Gevanthor (friend in California)
(“DEFINITELY” “YOU’LL” “ROTISSERIE”)
Q: So, Marie, real quick. I did remember to tell you to watch the special, but you didn’t because?
I: Yes, you did. And I was out and I forgot to set the VCR and I must see yours because it made me sick that I missed it.
Q: So we’re at Le Belle Epoque, where else? (“DON’T MENTION IT”) And the last time we were here there was this man at the table next to ours who, all the time we were there, was reading a newspaper after finishing eating. (“FINE”) We had waited a long time for the table. And he was very intent on listening to our conversation so, of course, I thought he probably was a CIA agent. And then when I got back to my car, do you remember what happened, Marie? (“VERY ACCURATE”) My (“GOOD”) front panel?
I: Your tape player or something (“THERE WAS”) was —
Q: It was loose.
I: — there were loose wires or whatever but this individual was, I just thought — (“SURE” “GO” “GO”) “Go get a life, bud.” (laughs)
Q: Right. (“WE’LL HANDLE IT”) But he looked — (“LOOKS LIKE” “DID HE”) did he look like Secret Service to you?
B: (overlapping) Well, I’m sure it was an interesting conversation that he was overhearing.
I: Oh, yeah. (“THAT’S WHY”) (laughs)
B: I’d be listening too.
( . . . )
B: So Wednesday night I was at the Beverly Hilton. (“I WAS HAPPY”) That was the night (“HAD”) I did my Christmas cards. (“WHAT”) While I was (“PEACE” “BUTTHOLE”) entombed in my hotel suite, (“LOCATED” “NINE O-FIVE”) at 11:30 I was (“I”) going to bed. I had to get up at 3:30 a.m. (“BASKET” “SON”) I noticed the light was flashing. (“I KNOW” “GOT YA”) So I called down (“TAG”) and there was (“MARK” “LOVE”) a basket for me. (“YOU KNOW”) I went downstairs. I said, (“GO TELL” “THERE’S A”) “I was told (“WHAT”) there’s a basket for me.” (“I” “NICE PAIR OF GOBLETS”) The concierge said, “No, there’s (“ONE”) nothing for you here. (“RON”) It must (“THEY MUST”) have already been (“WELL”) delivered to your room.” (“UH-HUH”) I went back upstairs. There was nothing there. (“RIGHT” “OH YEAH”) So I just didn’t think anything more of it. (“HE TOOK IT HOME WITH HIM”)
I: Right, you figure they got the (“LAWYER”) wrong number.
B: I didn’t know what to — (“WHY”) I just said, “I got to get up at 3:30” (“UH-HUH”) and let it go. (“OKAY”) And so Jonathan called me yesterday. (“BURGUNDY”) He said, “Michael, did you like the basket I sent you (“WHOLE LOT OF FIRE”) on Wednesday evening?” (“YOU’RE BAD” “TO ASK”) I said, “Oh, were you the one? Well, the strangest thing happened.” (“IT WAS VERY VERY STRANGE”) I was called and they said they had a basket but I never got it. (“AND HE WAS”) Anyway, he had made a special Golden Globe basket (“FOR”) with (“DONE THAT”) a Golden Globe in little chocolates or something. (“WHO GOT IT” “NOT” “HE’S GOT HIS WHOLE” “UH-HUH”) And so I never got it. (“THERE COME”) Isn’t that weird?
I: And you were even called to come there. (“NOBODY”)
Q: Do you think that Michael took it? (“HUH”)
B: I don’t know. (“NO”) I don’t know if Michael exists. (“YOU’LL BE SORRY MIKE TO DO THAT” “YEAH BUT YOU”)
I: Someone took it.
Q: Didn’t you also find some magazines that you hadn’t seen for a long time recently? (“NO” “RIGHT” “YEAH ACTUALLY”) Yes or no?
Q: Yes? (“NO”)
Q: You don’t have to say what kind of magazines they were. But they mysteriously disappeared for a while, right? (“WELL YOU ALREADY KNOW”)
B: I hadn’t seen them in ages but I wasn’t aware of them.
Q: But you were aware that you found them again.
B: Um-huh. (“MICKEY MANTLE” “MIKE”) I was cleaning out the closet because I redid the closets. (“ON THE CLOCK”) Anyway, it’s no big deal.
Q: And, Marie, somebody gave you a gift? (“REAL DIAMONDS”) A piece of jewelry? (“NOW” “I’LL BE” “YEAH I KNOW”)
I: A rhinestone star. (“HE’LL TAKE IT BACK” “YOU PUSHED IT” “IT’S JUST”) It’s priceless.
Q: Michael, don’t take this one. (“AT YOUR SINK”)
B: (to Marie) Are you dating? (“YOU” “WAS”)
( . . . )
B: You’re going to have a hunchback. Anyway, (“WHY” “I HOPE I DO”) James Ulmer was at (“KILL”) a festival. (“PAUSE ON THAT”) I forget which one. Cannes. Venice. Berlin. One of those (“HURRY”) big festivals.
B: And he interviewed Mark Rydell. (“WITH A PEN”) And Mark Rydell badmouthed (“PRESIDENT”) the Wiensteins (“CRAWL”) and said they had (“OO OOOO OO O”) no taste in films. (“HE’S GOT”) And that (“THE”) they weren’t making (“BECAUSE YOU KNOW I MEAN”) his project blah blah blah. (“POODLE”) Anyway, James printed it. (“OH WOW” “OKAY” “WHAT” “THE FALLOUT”) The Wiensteins were so mad — “I WANT” “WHEN DID THIS HAPPEN”) Harvey was so furious at Mark Rydell that he put the project in turnaround.
I: (gasps) (“GOOD”)
B: And Mark Rydell called James and said, (“BRING —” “NO” “— MORE THAN THAT”) “I deserved it. I said it. (“AND YOU”) I mean I can’t (“PROBLEM”) blame you for writing it. It’s my mistake.”
Q: And by the way, Michael, thank you for telling David Lynch about “Wonder of the World.” It was a nice try. (“FORREST GUMP”)
B: David Lynch? (“WE KNOW”)
Q: Remember at the Venice Film Festival?
B: Right. (“ONLY AN HOUR”)
Q: You tried to sell one of my scripts. (“I’D CALL”)
Q: You talked to him briefly about it. (“REALLY”)
I: Oh cool.
B: I did.
Q: Right. Well, that’s good. Thank you for trying.
B: You’re welcome. (“UH-HUH” “I WORK”) You know, that’s a — (“I THINK IT’S A WONDERFUL SCRIPT” “GAY” “AND WHEN ITS”) I don’t think it’s right for Roger Birnbaum, I must say. I think it’s right for Stan Winston.
Q: Oh, I think Stan Winston definitely has to do the make-up. (“BUT I”)
B: And (“STAY THERE”) it’s getting to the point where I can get it to him. (“MAYBE” “HOW’S SCULLY”) He just put us on (“HI”) hiatus. But I mean with him (“NO”) you’ve got to be very careful. (“DID YOU”) Know what happened at Paramount with Stan?
B: Oh, this is another great thing (“PUT”) for your book.
B: They’re doing two horror movies (“PAPA”) and Stan’s doing (“THERE’S A LOT OF”) the special effects (“BOW TIE”) on both projects. (“WELL” “DUE”) Well, due to — (“HE”) he had a little problem with the director of publicity there.
Q: Which one? Carol?
B: No. Carol’s at Fox.
Q: Oh, the new one?
B: No. The other one. (“SHE’LL BE MAD E I” “SHOULD BE”)
Q: Eileen? (“UH-HUH”)
B: Eileen. (“SHE’LL BE FAIR”) Well, when they announced the project in the trades, they talked about (“NO”) Stan. They were not supposed to publicize Stan’s involvement in the film. (“RIGHT”) Because Stan Winston was pissed that Digital Domain wasn’t going — (“IT”) they’re doing the creature effects and then another effects house got to do the post-production. And so Stan was pissed and said, “You cannot publicize my involvement.” Well, Eileen fucked up (“DO THIS DO THAT” “BARRY”) and did a press announcement mentioning the special effects house. I think it’s VIFX. (“BOUGHT”) And Stan (“AS” “NO”) was so furious to read about it (“UH-UH”) that he isn’t doing any publicity for either Paramount movie period.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: EILEEN IS ONE OF THE MANY PEOPLE I KNOW WHO HAVE EITHER “SON,” “MAN” OR “EL” IN THEIR FIRST OR LAST NAME. WHILE TRANSCRIBING AND RECHECKING THE FOLLOWING SPIRIT MESSAGE REPEATEDLY, IT CONTINUOUSLY CHANGED FROM THE FORMER TO THE LATTER AND BACK AGAIN.)
(“WAIT FOR OPEN” “UH-OH” “NOT A SMART”)
I: That’s horrible.
B: Eileen blamed it on the publicist (“BUT”) but it was her (“MY”) mistake.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: NEWS RELEASES ARE APPROVED BY FILMMAKERS AND OTHER STUDIO EXECUTIVES SO MISTAKES USUALLY CANNOT BE THE FAULT OF ANY ONE INDIVIDUAL.) Q: Oh my God. My book is becoming a tell-all book about Hollywood!
B: Shhh. (“NO I’M NOT”)
( . . . )
(“GAY” “DIME” “LISTEN TO THIS”)
B: Well, it was an interesting story about Arnie, an attorney friend of mine (“IF I’D BEEN”) who lives in Santa Barbara. (“LOVE THE WAY” “MAKE LITTLE CHANGE”) Arnie was married for a while and then he decided he was gay and was a little separated — cut off from his feelings. (“BUT UM” “GREAT LIAR”) A close friend of his who was equally career-obsessed, as Arnie is, (“YEAH” “UM-HUM”) had AIDS (“FROM WHAT”) and passed away. (“MARK’S GOT IT ON TAPE”) And in the last few weeks of his life, Arnie was there for him. (“LIKE HELL HE WAS”) And right before he died, he said something very interesting to Arnie. He said, “You know, Arnie, all we are here to do is give (“UM-HUH”) and receive love.” (“BUT HE DIDN’T”) He said it (“OOAA”) simply and then died. (“NOW WE’RE OUT OF . . .” “SPRINGTIME”)
I: Those were his dying words. (“WHO ALL BROUGHT YOU HERE”)
( . . . )
B: In Hollywood everyone is career-oriented. Their personal lives suffer in the ’90s.
Q: Why? To make stinking shitty movies.
I: No, it’s not about the movies. It’s about the social condition. And the movies come from the social condition of the times. (“I HAVE TO MAKE A PHONE CALL”) And I think, with all that disease in the world and paranoia, everybody’s social life everywhere is stymied because of it.
B: The fear factor. I think we’re in this life (“COME THROUGH”) to overcome our fear. (“THAT’S WHAT IF”)
I: Oh, yeah. (“TIL THERE ARE ABSOLUTELY NO MORE JEWS”)
B: And to give and receive love. (“NO FOR —” [PHONETIC] “HEIH” “— MAMA”)
( . . . )
Q: We finished lunch and we’re leaving and we just happened to talk about when Marie and I first met, which was working at the Ruth Webb Agency. (“KING ARTHUR” “LOOK AT”) And I just remembered something. Ruth used to have weird fainting spells too (“YEAH”) where she would pass out. Do you remember that, Marie?
I: Yes, I do. (“THIS IS THE LAST”)
B: This is the last recording.
I: This is the last (laughs) recording. (“MICHAEL” “BUILDING” “NO”)
B: Michael, is this the last recording? (“YOU KNOW I’M THINKING” “YOU’RE STUCK WITH ME YOU’RE THINKING”)
I: Yes. (“YEAH” “COME”)
Q: But all those great Hollywood stories that we know from our years in the industry. About Jodie Foster and people like that. We’ll never get the chance to tell them to anyone. (“NO” “NOW AND THEN” “NO”)
B: Michael wants it that way.
Q: What? (“MICHAEL” “CALL” “LET THE PEOPLE EVALUATE” “MICHAEL” “UM-HUH” “THEIR LIVES”)
I: Their lives are revealed through their movies. (“OBVIOUSLY” “SO”)
Q: So what if we know good gossip about Whitney Houston? (“UH-HUH”) We won’t (“WE”) — it won’t be in this book. (“JAKE AND LOUISE” “RIGHT”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS PORTION OF TAPE WAS RECORDED IN THE CAR.)
I: It just makes sense that Christmas Eve would be the end of it because Christmas Day is a big —
B: It’s the birth.
I: It’s the birth of Christ. So that’s everything right there. (“IT’S A FRIEN”)
B: When you said, “This is the last message” — (“POINTING”)
Q: No. I said, —
Q: — “This is the last recording” —
I: You said, “This is the last recording.”
Q: — meaning at the restaurant, though. (“UH-HUH”)
I: No, you didn’t say —
B: You didn’t say that.
I: — at the restaurant. You said, “This is —”
B: Mark, just play it back. You’ll see. It’ll become clear.
I: “— the last recording.” And it would make sense after you heard those three speakers today and tomorrow is Christmas Day.
B: And the Arnie deathbed message.
I: It’s Christmas Eve. You hit the finale. (“NO”)
B: Exactly. The birth of Christ —
I: That’s it.
B: — is the end of your book.
Q: You mean the birth of a New Age Christ. (“TTT”)
I: Whatever label you want to use is immaterial. It’s to mark —
I: — it’s Christmas Day.
Q: Well, see, now —
I: Don’t you think?
Q: I want to make it crystal clear to everyone. I do not know if I am the reincarnation of Jesus Christ. There’s no way anyone (“NO”) can know that. I’m not deluded. I don’t know that.
B: Well, but there’s a duality. (“URRUUGH”) It’s — (“THERE’S BEEN”) there’s been a duality dealing with Christ in your book.
Q: Right. (“SO”) Not duality. Duality isn’t a good word in that context.
B: What’s the word? Not duality but the synchronicity. (“CYBER”)
B: Exactly. And you must admit that Christ has been a very big symbol in your book.
Q: Well, I’m not saying I am the reincarnation —
B: No, I’m not saying that but you see —
Q: I just want to make it very clear.
B: — it’s a reoccurring symbol.
Q: I am the ‘Son of Man’ — not Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ was a very nice fairy tale, probably —
Q: — based upon the Bel-Marduk (“ONE” “NO”) resurrection story.
B: Right. But that’s been a recurring theme in events.
Q: Right. (“UHHH”) The first one was Bel-Marduk. So it’s only fitting that the final resurrection story is Mark Russell Bell who is also known as the Son of Man. Is this a good finishing for my book?
I: It’s Christmas Eve. Yes, it is. I mean it just ended and you know how there are always things in threes.
B: (singing) “Silver bells.”
I: And also how with —
B: (singing) “Silver bells.”
I: — you know the three pyramids. There were three of us at the restaurant. You said, “This is the last recording.”
B: I — we both got chills, Mark.
I: Yes. And we looked at each other right in the eye (“EXACTLY”) as you said that. We reacted before any words were said.
B: And you didn’t even get it. (“SHUT UP”)
I: Because it just fell out of your mouth. And, then, Michael, were you —
Q: I was probably channeling.
I: Yes, and when he repeated it back to you, you were a nervous wreck. (“NO”) “Weellll, noooooo, Idon’twanttosoundlikethisyeeeuuueeeuuu.”
Q: Well, that’s because tomorrow, Christmas, I’m going to be with two Mormons. I’m sure they’re going to have all kinds of — ([OVERLAPPING] “I’M SURE THEY’RE GOING TO HAVE ALL KINDS OF”)
B: Well, it wasn’t meant to be.
I: And that’s the end. (“NO”) You know the Mormons will get their turn too another day.
Q: Okay, well what I’m going to do is I’m going to let this tape side run out in my bag to see if Michael has anything He wants to add. And then I’ll come and get my bag later.
I: And what was the name of that restaurant?
Q: Le Belle Epoque.
B: Oh, Mark. That’s just too good. And, Mark, you even said that — you remember this? You said, (“NO”) “This is a good way to end my book.” Remember?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A PORTION OF THE TAPE SIDE HAS NO DISCERNABLE SPIRIT MESSAGES YET MANY UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS.)
(“RUSSELL” “OF” “OF TIME”)
( . . . )
Q: So I guess this is the ending of my first book. I have plenty of time and room on the tape for Michael to speak if He so wishes to, but I have a feeling he doesn’t. So I think it is suitable to end it on Christmas Eve. (“BECAUSE”) For me, every day is like Christmas, anyway. So ‘The End.’
I: This is it.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I DECIDED TO USE THE REST OF THE TAPE AND BEGAN RECORDING AGAIN ON THE WAY TO OUR MOTHER’S APARTMENT.)
B: Today is the last day of the writing of the book. Mark has finished but now it’s my turn to finish. And in the car is Andrew Gevanthor —
B: — who’s had many psychic experiences. He used to teach TM and studied with — (“WHO”) who was it, Andy?
Y: Maharishi Mahesh Yogi.
B: Maharishi in India. So he has very much psychic power. So, Andy, talk about the supernatural experiences that have happened to you. (“WHERE’S”)
Q: And about that book you gave me for Christmas.
B: And explain about the book you got Mark for Christmas.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MICHAEL GIVES ANDY THE TAPE RECORDER AS I DRIVE.)
B: Here, take it.
Y: I don’t want to take it.
Y: (whines/mutters) Idonwan (“THAT’S OKAY”)
B: I — yeah. (“IT’S TOO HARD”) You have to talk into it.
Y: Well, the book is called Letters from the Earth by Mark Twain. It’s the uncensored writings — or censored writings, I think — unpublished censored writings of Mark Twain. And the first section I’ve read is a series of letters written by the gods about life on Earth. And the first one that really got me hooked into it talks about how human beings spend about an hour and a half (“NO”) a week in church and they hate it. And they get really tired going to church. And they hate singing hymns yet they do it but they get tired. And they hate each other. And they hate anybody who’s different from them. Yet their idea of heaven that they’re so stridently trying to get into is (“A”) a heaven where they’re in church all day long, they sing hymns all day long and everybody is the same. All the different people are there with them and they love everybody. So Mark Twain is talking about how — (“THE”) the difference between the reality, which they like — they like the reality — and their idea of heaven, which is completely different. And, basically, just using it in order to support the argument that they’re really stupid on Earth. And the whole notion that the Bible is just complete fantasy and, logically, most of what goes on in the Bible couldn’t possibly have happened due to the laws of physics.
Q: Except the Ark of the Covenant.
Y: Which is sitting in Mark Russell’s living room waiting to be sold at auction at Sotheby’s. Now I’ll return this back to Michael. Michael — (“WAIT NO”)
Q: Real quick, tell us something about the maharishi.
Y: The maharishi is an enlightened man. He probably came to Earth to (“UH-UH”) help Earth’s evolution. And his idea is to get as many people meditating — doing TM as possible. That’s it. (“BUT”)
Q: What was your experience like with him? (“I MEAN DID”) How long was it? Did you get anything out of it?
Y: I got a lot out of it. And I (“WOOD”) spent a couple years off and on with him.
Y: And I started — I taught at the TM Center. I helped run the TM Center in San Francisco and only initiated — meaning taught TM to — I don’t know how many people. (“YOU MET”) Thirty or forty people.
Q: Is TM good?
Y: TM is a very, very powerful technique.
B: Was that a salaried position?
B: How did you make a living?
Y: I got paid a very small amount — just basically enough to live on. And I lived in the Center and my rent was very low.
Q: So what are — what’s your overall feelings about religion and God?
Y: Well, you know, religion comes from Latin words that mean ‘return to self,’ so my overall feeling about religion is that a religious pursuit is very important. There are many organized religions in the world. Most of them are just economic systems to suppress people. (“BUT”) In their true, pure form, if they help people pursue higher levels and then in the moving to a new relationship with their higher self, their lower self and help them understand their position in the world — and in relation to their evolution and their future incarnations. Then, I think it’s positive.
Q: Cheryl’s going to start her own church. Andy, why don’t you start your own church?
Y: Because there are enough churches in the world. The only thing I think is (“IMPOR”) important for me to do is to help enliven the world in some way. By doing small good deeds. And on an individual level. That’s what I think I am here to do. (“YES”) And I do. And so what else, Mark? (“WELL THAT’S”)
Q: Anything else you want to say? Any other weird experiences? Angels? Aliens?
Y: I’ve seen angels. (“YES”)
B: You’ve seen angels?
Y: You never knew that, Michael?
Y: Oh yeah. I was on this course for six months in Spain in the winter. And I was sitting up and meditating in my bed at night. It was very cold and windy. And I (“WAS”) — my eyes were closed and all of a sudden I got a blinding flash of light. I thought a light was shining in my face. I opened my eyes and it was dark in the room but I closed my eyes again and it was bright light as if I was looking into the sun. And I opened my eyes again and it was dark. And I closed my eyes again and it was light. And from that point on, my perception has changed completely. And that was about twenty years ago. (“I WAS”) And it still gave me certain experiences that I’ve never lost from that point on — that have grown. But right after that time I remember opening my eyes and looking and seeing that it’s dark. But I saw four or five angels (“TAKE”) spinning around. They were like discs of light spinning in sort of like an elliptical shape spinning and spinning around in the air. And when I looked more closely I could see sort of the figure of angels. But they weren’t crystal clear. It was more (“IF THEY”) as if they were just on a background of very intense golden light. So, yeah, that was my experience with angels.
( . . . )
Q: . . . interesting?
Y: Well, I’ve always been intuitive and sensitive to people’s vibes and to situations but recently, the past year and a half, I’ve been experiencing psychic abilities. They’ve sort of been coming to me. (“CERTAIN”) I’ve been getting pieces of knowledge that have been proven to be true. But now I’ve been gradually able to tap into certain kinds of knowledge. For example, Michael Russell and I were in a (“PA”) Palm Springs hotel. We were sharing a room and I was reading and he came in from the pool. And then, a little while later, we were going out to dinner. He couldn’t find his keys and I said, “They’re in the pool.” And he said, “No, I brought them in.” I said, “Were they in your pocket in the pool?” He said, “Yeah, but I used them after I got out of the pool.” So we tore apart the room looking and couldn’t find them but I said, “No, they’re in the pool.” And I saw where they were under water. And finally we went outside and they were exactly where I’d seen them.
B: Yeah, that’s a true story. (“AND”)
Q: And that time on the yacht when you went to (“GET IN”) get in line and you met those friends. (“BUDDIES”)
Y: What yacht?
Q: Remember? I mean on your cruise. (“THE TWO”) Two guys from Chicago? (“REMEMBER WE WERE”)
B: Remember we went down to pick our table and the only other gay couple on board was there?
Y: Oh, they were standing right behind us. Yeah.
B: That’s pretty amazing.
Y: Well, that was meant to be. I play a game where I walk into my building and I just wonder (“MY”) where (“I”) — which elevator is going to come because there are three elevators. And usually I know which elevator will come before I push the button.
B: Well, I’ve seen Andy being psychic. (“HE”) I’ve seen him react like he knows something before it happens because I can see that in his eyes.
Q: Well, please tell, Andy, what are your thoughts about Son of Man?
Y: Who’s Son of Man?
B: But there are some times you jump to the wrong conclusion. Sometimes Andy will jump to the wrong conclusion where he thinks something is the truth and it isn’t. (“SO”) So — (“BUT THAT WAS WITH”) that’s one thing you’ve got to be careful of.
Q: But on the cruise, (“WHAT HAP”) explain that a little bit better.
B: Well, we spent the ten-day cruise with another couple from Chicago. It was meant to be. (“MO”) 95% of the people on board were in their sixties, seventies and eighties. Retired. (“NINETY-NINE PER CENT”) 99%