TELEPHONE INTERVIEW — TAPE #30, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Russell BellI: Marie Todd (friend)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TRANSCRIBED UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS DURING THE INITIAL PART OF THIS TAPE SIDE AND OCCASIONALLY THEREAFTER.)
I: What’s going on?
Q: Well, I just got back from my photo shoot with Timothy and (“I”) going to the gym. So I ended (“END”) up interviewing Timothy. (“SO IT’S LIKE I’M”) I’m now beginning tape #30 so I have all these tapes with all these spirit voices.
I: Oh wow. I bet that was a trip — interviewing him.
Q: Oh yeah. It was. (“UH-HUH”) Well, it’s so funny because whenever I’m with him it seems like Michael’s much more active. The cat was chasing something in the room. (“IT WAS”) It’s not like a cat invents a toy. (“IT’S LIKE SO”) I think Michael was playing with the cat. (“NO MEAT”)
I: Well, I think so too because (“I THINK”) sometimes I think cats are tuned into that.
Q: Right. I sort of just jokingly —
I: Because you know how sometimes they’ll just dart in some weird direction or whatever.
Q: Well, I know that Michael can talk to birds and give them moral support like He does to people in need. He knows every language. (“AND SO”) And I was kidding (“TO”) to Timothy. I said, “I think cats and dolphins are the most elevated life forms on the planet.” (“YOU KNOW”) He has an adorable black cat. (“I AM”) Whenever we’re together, there’s a lot (“THERE’S”) more psychic energy. It’s almost like (“THAT”) those movies like —
I: With you and Timothy?
Q: Yeah. Like “Village of the Damned” and “Children of the Damned.” (“WHERE LIKE”) Like where two people who are both very psychic come together. (“UH-HUH”)
I: Well, yeah. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: Oh my goodness. (“PSY”) And I think you’re psychic too so (“UH-HUH”) maybe they should put all three of us in a room and see what happens.
I: Oh, honestly. (“YEAH”)
Q: Do you have anything new going on?
I: Well, actually, I want Timothy to do some new photos of me. (“HE”)
Q: Do you know he accidentally cuts himself before he takes the photos and magic seems to happen. So (“YOU KNOW”) it’s really weird. And I also interviewed Cheryl and Allison at Paramount so that was interesting.
I: Oh, I bet.
Q: Remember the time when I heard Diana when she was washing her coffee cup say, “She’s a wicked witch and I hate her”? Well, Cheryl says she’s a witch but I don’t think she’s very wicked. (“WICKED”) But she does say that she’s a witch. I think she just means she’s psychic. But you just never know, I guess. Anyway, (“SO”) it’s very (“WELL”) interesting. I don’t know how to interpret (“ALL THIS”) what’s going on around me. I just sort of report it in my transcripts and let people make up their own minds about things. (“THAT’S IT”) I must say (“IT”) it must be very challenging to be an executive like Allison or Cheryl at a big studio. I mean their offices were literally filled with gifts.
I: I bet.
Q: It’s hard to be generous — I mean (“UH-HUH”) it’s hard to give back to society as much as you get from society when you (“GIVE ME”) are in those positions of power. It’s like — (“A IT’S”) it’s a challenge I would never want to have.
I: I guess.
Q: And who knows why they have it in this lifetime? (“NOBODY” “TAPE” “YOU KNOW” “ME” “HOW DOES IT FEEL”) I don’t know. (“UM-HUH”) It’s weird.
I: Maybe they were on the other side of it in another lifetime.
Q: Exactly. Or because they might have done something naughty they have big challenges to overcome in this lifetime to earn Michael’s love. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: There’s really no difference between them and people who are working (“I”) for the minimum wage. (“UH-HUH” “YOU’RE GREAT” “YEAH”) So it’s just (“TEN”) like how do you prove love to someone? (“TICK”) To Michael or to God? If you have a lot you have a lot more proving to do. That’s why I’m really grateful that (“MAYBE”) maybe it’s not so bad I didn’t sell all those scripts. Because they just would have changed them and made them into shitty movies, anyway. (“YEAH”)
Q: And there’s enough shitty movies out there. (“SO ANY”) Do you have any phenomena or strange stories to report? You said you had something (“INTERESTING TO”) to tell me (“KNOW ON THE”) on the message you left. (“I DON’T”)
I: I’m just disgusted, disgusted and more disgusted.
I: Well, I was selected for a car commercial and I did (“IT’S SOMETHING I DO”) what I said I was never going to do. I said I was never going to do any more temp work. I did it this past week and I always pay attention to my messages on my pager. (“AND ALL”) You know. (“YEAH”) All of that. Well, (“WE HATE”) I didn’t have my pager on and I’m running this stupid paper around places. (“THIS I NEED”) And I realize (“JAMAICA” “COME SEE” “YOU’LL DO ALRIGHT”) probably an hour and a half later that I had a series of pages on my pager. The number and the 911 after it and whatever else. So I lost the gig. (“SO WHAT”)
Q: Oh no.
I: They went with somebody else. (“YEAH”) Yeah.
Q: Oh my God. Because I know you always —
I: So, needless to say —
Q: — have your beeper with you and everything.
I: That’s why. And I was (“YOU’RE RIGHT”) in an atmosphere that I said I was not going to be in. I went against my instinct and went through, “Oh, go work — suffer for chump change.” So I mean I should have been doing the cliched ‘sit home and wait for the phone to ring.’
Q: Marie, well first of all, I don’t know if I told you this before —
I: I’m disgusted.
Q: — but what you have to do—it works for me—is every night before you go to sleep, say, “I surrender my life and my will to God.”
I: Oh, I do but the thing is I’m just not at all into this little suffer scene.
Q: Well, neither am I.
I: You know, I’m, like, fucking sick of it all.
Q: Well, you know, that’s what I — see, I think — (“YEAH”)
I: And I got to — last week, I auditioned for Amy Sobo, who’s a huge commercial casting director. And she does independent features and CD-ROM. And this girl and I did this killer scene. And she was really nice and I talked to her afterward: “I took a couple classes at the conservatory last week. I’ve done all sorts of things.” Or whatever. And I’m well-experienced and well-rehearsed and it’s like “It’s my fucking turn” to have those jobs too.
Q: It is.
I: And I went against my own instincts. And my friend, Michael from Tennessee, the keyboard player, told me, (“THAT HE”) “I don’t think you should do that job.” And I said, “Well, what am I going to do? Sit around here and grovel and feel sorry for myself? Or wait for the phone to ring?” Or this or that or the other. And that’s what I should have been doing. And the same day that I lost that gig, outside of the building where I was working at lunchtime — where I would have been walking, there was a drive-by shooting. (“LET”)
Q: Let me explain one thing to you. Michael, the Entity, definitely speaks to each of us through the subconscious minds of others. So you really have to listen to whoever it is you’re speaking to. Because sometimes —
I: Oh, I’m a good listener.
Q: Well, I know (“BUT WHEN YOU’RE”) but when your friend ‘Michael’ — get it? Michael?
Q: When ‘Michael’ told you this (“UM-HUH”) you should have listened to him. (“UM-HUH”)
I: I know. (“THAT’S”)
Q: You see, I think (“THE O”) the original Jesus must have really done something that Michael didn’t approve of to end up on that (“CRU”) cross. He must have blown it.
I: Oh yeah — yeah, I get it. (“SO”)
Q: I don’t want to blow it. So I really listen (“TO”) — I try to listen to everybody.
I: But the thing is I think I’m a decent listener. Not in the sense of just being able to follow a conversation. I mean (“YEAH”) I can listen and gain something out of listening to somebody speak that I don’t even agree with what they say or feel the same way, but I will learn something from their point-of-view or I might change my mind.
Q: Marie, you are the nicest person I know so if you (“YOU KNOW”) can blow it, anyone can.
I: And what makes me so mad is the fact — I mean if I had a good reason — if I was out at some extreme party or just way out — you know what I mean? I don’t (“WHA”) have an excuse. My excuse is I was where I should never be anymore.
Q: Okay, well you just have to put it aside. You’ve learned your lesson. You’ve got to now put it aside and just concentrate — now I cheat a little every night when I say —
I: I mean I say that too. It’s just like I’m fucking fed up.
Q: No, Marie. You have to mean that. You can’t just say it. You have to mean it.
I: Oh, I do. I mean I don’t say anything (“WELL DON’T”) I don’t mean.
Q: But if you mean it, you would live your life like that instead of going against your own better instincts.
Q: So you just have to listen to your intuition and listen to other people who might be channeling Michael. Especially when they’re named Michael and they’re from Tennessee. And just go with the flow. I cheat a little at night. (“UM”) I say, “I surrender my life and my will and my love and my soul” — and whatever. It goes on for a while. It gets really tedious. ([TRYING TO VOMIT]: “HUHH”) And it seems to work.
I: Well, that’s what’s important.
Q: Well, don’t beat yourself up over this.
I: I know but the thing was it’s not that I think I’m a diva and I’ve got star syndrome. That’s not it.
Q: Look at it this way — you had this lesson to learn and now you’ve learned it. Sometimes we have to learn it several times before it sticks. (“NONE”) Like me driving on the freeway.
I: Yeah. But I’m just angst-ridden.
Q: So now when did you want to come by?
I: What’s good for you? I can come by during the day on Sunday.
Q: Well, the PRS is having a Christmas party between eleven and twelve. If you want to go to that, maybe that would be fun. I think my brother’s going to go too but I don’t know. (“YOU KNOW YOU KNOW USUALLY I’M”) I’m usually here transcribing or whatever. (“UM”) So — (“I JUST COULD I”) I wanted to see you some time so I can give you your present. (“WAIT”) So anytime is good for you? Do you want to come maybe before I leave (“TTT TO THE”) to the PRS? (“THE NOW”)
I: Now where is it? (“HMM”)
Q: Los Feliz — where we went that time.
I: Oh yeah.
Q: They’re having a Christmas party this time. Do you want to go?
I: Why not? (“SO THE”) I don’t have any plans for (“OKAY”) that morning. I mean I should have another experience. (“OKAY”)
Q: So why don’t you come by around ten-ish and then we can trade gifts and do the usual Christmas stuff.
Q: By the way, regarding your friend Debbie who works for Mark Rydell? Wasn’t it funny when (“SHHH”) you gave her my script to read, “Wonder of the World,” and then, when she wanted to read it, it had disappeared?
Q: It’s like she had her chance.
I: Oh I know.
Q: It’s like half of Hollywood has had their fucking chance.
I: Oh that’s — I understand.
Q: And now I’m going to become a celebrity and everyone’s going to want to make my scripts. And I’m going to be able to choose, hopefully. If not, I don’t really care. Doesn’t that sound rather blasé?
I: No, I think being able to choose is the position to be in.
Q: But, see, I feel that my book is such a good expression of who I am that I don’t really need the fulfillment of film but I have these fabulous scripts that are much better than anything you see out there. So I’d be glad (“YOU KNOW”) to sell them. I’m looking at it philosophically.
Q: So, anyway, everything’s going very well. (“UM” “THERE’S JUST”) There’s so much phenomena that happens I can’t even remember it all. It just happens so much. For example, at Timothy’s studio the door locked. (“YOU KNOW”) And he never locks the door. The door locked. I mean just little things like that happen constantly.
I: Oh wow. (“UM”) So what did he take pictures of?
Q: The Declaration of Independence; the George Washington painting — and that probably is an original too. The more I think about it the more I think it probably is. And (“OH”) the Kostabi piece so I’ll have it for the publishers of my book. He ended up taking a few pictures of me too because (“NO”) he just gets carried away like that. (“YEAH”)
I: Well, right, but not only that (“A PIC”) your picture will be in the book too.
Q: Well, I know but this was impromptu. I mean I didn’t even shave around my beard today.
I: But that’s what makes better pictures. (“DIP”) Some of the most famous and most interesting pictures are like that because they’re natural. (“WELL”)
Q: Especially with Timothy behind the camera. (“A[FTER]”) After pricking his finger — “PRICK.” (“SOMETIMES YOU KNOW”) On the tapes, Michael says, “PRICK.” And I think that’s the meaning. Also, what’s interesting too I that I was listening to one of my old tapes. In an interview with the director of “The Crying Game,” Neil Jordan, (“AND OF COURSE MICHAEL’S”) He talks more on this one than most of my (“OTHER”) tapes. (“I GUESS IT’S”) I guess He knew I’d find it eventually. (“BUT”) It’s funny. (“WHAT”) Sometimes in these interviews sometimes when (“YEAH”) the letters bel appear, people say (“THE WOR”) the word without saying the ‘bel’ portion and don’t even know it. Isn’t that funny? (“I MEAN IT JUST”) It just shows His complete control of people’s subconscious minds. (“NO”)
I: Good grief.
Q: Exactly. It’s very hard to express in my book. That’s why I’m taping this call. (“JUST”) To sort of help organize my thoughts. (“YOU KNOW SO”) You know, I just think it’s more fun that way. (“BUT AN”) But, anyway, I really look forward to seeing you. Come by at 10 a.m. (“SO”) I don’t know.
I: I’m going horseback riding in the morning so —
Q: That’s what you do every week.
I: My ritual. (small laugh) (“RIGHT”)
Q: We all need rituals. (“I REALLY”)
I: That’s been my ritual.
Q: I really lost it with my shrink this week because (“YOU KNOW”) she doesn’t give me a set appointment every week. It’s always (“AAA”) when is it best for me to come in for her. And I had to say, “Well, listen, I have two hours on Tuesday and Thursday for the Hotline which is pretty well set at this point. Then I have the gym. And I’m very flexible with the gym but it has to be sometime in the day. (“BECAUSE IT”) It takes (“TWO”) two and a half — two to three hours including the time driving to her office. Plus, there’s nothing wrong with me.
I: But not only that, your whole world and your whole week doesn’t revolve around going to the damn shrink. (“IT”) You know. And people (“ANOTHER GIRL”) that need them the most don’t have anyone that they can honestly express themselves (“WELL SEE”) to and not be afraid about losing their job or (“RIGHT” “FLEXING”) a divorce.
Q: The problem with it is I like speaking to her because she’s been very helpful for me in the early stages. It’s just that she still doesn’t believe in Michael. You know? She’s still totally closed-minded about it and I really need someone now who can help me deal with the bigger questions. (“RATHER THAN JUST”) We’re still at stage one. She still doesn’t even believe He exists when every day in front of all my friends — (“LIKE”) when I was with Allison. (“IT JUST”) You know, everyone tells me about their experiences with angels. It’s like she must be the only one on the planet who hasn’t had something bizarre happen to her and she’s psychic.
I: Well, it’s not even that. She’s into denial. I mean —
Q: But I’m so tired of helping other people with their denial.
I: I understand, but (“ONE OF EIGHT”) one of the professions that so many people are really getting down on recently is the whole shrink scene.
Q: That’s because they charge a lot more money than the therapists who don’t have (“YOU KNOW”) the ‘Dr.’ in front of their names. They don’t charge as much.
I: I’ve heard a lot of conversation with different people about this and it’s to the point of being almost laughable.
Q: Well, it is.
I: Some of it.
Q: It’s like she’s still discouraging me from writing my book when she knows it is my passion in life.
I: Well, (“NO”) what can you do with somebody that’s been giving you self-denial about what it is that you know how to do best? Not everybody gets to be a freelance publicist. I mean do you know how many people that would be (“DYING”) — give their right arm to get to do that?
Q: I know.
I: Plus the studios and projects you’ve worked on. So what kind of a professional person (“IIH”) are you going to for help that’s (“TRY”) inducing denial in what your gift is. (“WELL I’M PUPPET” “YOU’RE A GIFT MARK”) You’re a gifted writer regardless of whatever it is you’re going to write.
Q: Well, I gave her the rough draft of the first 300 pages of my book. (“YOU KNOW”) With the spirit voices and everything.
I: So you’ve got somebody that’s passing judgement or has total tunnel vision because they refuse to accept you and what your interests are. (“WELL IT”) And I’m not talking about this Michael situation. I’m just talking about what your personal gift is in life and it’s writing. You’ve been making a living writing for a long time now.
Q: Actually, transcribing — (“LIKE”) for example, this format is the same thing as EPK press kit interviews. (“NO”) I’ve done a lot of interviews over the years so I’m sort of doing the same thing I was doing when I was on staff at Paramount but I —
I: Oh, I know that. And it’s all second nature. (“SO”)
Q: I mean so this is really what I should be doing right now. And, well, let’s see what her response is. I think the big problem is Barry Taff keeps calling her and reminding her what a nutcase I am when he hasn’t even taken the time to go to lunch with me.
I: Now who’s calling her?
Q: Well, this Barry Taff character who I spoke to a few times over the phone. (“U”)
I: Who is he?
Q: He’s a mutual friend. He’s a parapsychologist who went out and interviewed the family. And I think he’s upset because —
I: He’s upset that you got a story and he didn’t.
I: I mean let’s get to the bottom line of the matter here.
Q: Right. (“UH-HUH”)
I: You know, it’s all about, “Oh, you figured out how to do it and how to present it and it’s going to make money.” And somebody like that can’t stand to hear that they didn’t have the intelligence or the know-how to do that. (“WE”) And that woman’s got problems too because if she can’t deal with creative people — everybody knows you don’t deny a creatively gifted person what it is that they do best. (“WELL THANK”) Unless you’re trying to squelch them into their little place in the world. A lot of those people that are in those kind of positions really, you know, have to mindfuck everybody. (“UM-HUH” “BUT THE”)
Q: The thing you said about Barry, though, it’s not like even I was (“MORE OF A G”) smarter than he was or something. It’s just that I was blessed with this experience and he wasn’t.
I: Well, that’s it. That’s what I meant.
Q: It’s not like I figured out — I wasn’t more clever than him. (“OR SOMETHING”)
I: Well, I don’t mean it in a clever sense. I mean in the sense of as a writer. (“MY”) You were gifted. Plus, not only that, you’ve been doing that on those press kits and everything else for years.
Q: So I paid my dues. (“IT WOULD”)
I: But not only that it’s as though that was your training ground.
I: I mean that’s what led you up to it. I’ve known you a long time. Take it back one step farther. When you were an agent, you always wrote little publicity blurbs—about a few lines or whatever—that clued-in a casting director about the type of person and character you were submitting clients for. Concisely. That’s the type of stuff that allows people to be able to understand. And that guy probably doesn’t have the ability to make people understand the subject matter.
Q: I think he’s a little bit scared of the subject matter. Especially after working on the film “The Entity.” (“YOU KNOW ALSO REMEMBER” “DDD HAH HAH UM”) Remember when I booked John Carradine in “Peggy Sue Got Married” and I worked a little bit with your friend Debbie Leonard?
I: Oh yeah.
Q: How is she by the way?
I: She’s doing okay. She’s still working for Mark Rydell. And they’re supposed to maybe be doing a movie with HBO on something that went on with Lindbergh or whatever. Some period piece.
Q: Oh really? The kidnapping? (“THE LIN”)
I: Yeah. (“OH THAT”)
Q: Well, that should be interesting. (“I MEAN I LIKE”) Some of those HBO films are better than a lot of the films you see in theatres. Like “Citizen X” and — well there’ve just been so many of them.
I: I liked this one a whole bunch. I think I know what the name of it is. Scott Glenn was in it and he played this FBI dude that was in, I think, Utah researching some case.
Q: Not serial killers again?
I: The one with the witches and witchcraft. (“AND”)
Q: Was this another movie about serial killers?
I: I saw it this past year on HBO. It might have been called “Slaughter of the Innocent.”
Q: Definitely another “Silence of the Lambs”-type movie.
I: And they had a boat. And he was married and had a little boy. I’ve got this call coming in. Let me call you back.
( . . . )
Q: So, Marie, who was that on the other line?
I: Oh, it was one of my friends from my riding class.
Q: And anything interesting? (“OY”)
I: To chat. (“YOU KNOW I WAS”)
Q: You know I was thinking about what you were talking about earlier and how Michael talks through the subconscious minds of people. Today, at the photo session, Timothy said to me, “You’re funny.” (“AND”) I knew it was Michael speaking to me through Timothy’s subconscious mind because that’s something that I say every once in a while. I first said it in the car in Oklahoma. (“AND YOU KNOW”) Once in a while I’ll say that when He does something. I’ll just say, “Michael, you’re funny.” Because I really don’t know what else to say. (“AND” “IT — IT”) I’m sure that puzzled Timothy as well because — (“UH-HUH”) anyway, so he used that expression (“TO-DDD-AYY”) today. And I knew it was Michael telling me (“UH-HUH”) that I was funny. Which means something else. (“YEAH LIKE”) Words take on a much larger meaning.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A VOICE I ATTRIBUTE TO RADIO INTERFERENCE CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE SAYING, “HOW EXCITING.”)
Q: So you didn’t know I was taping when we started this conversation. You probably wouldn’t have said some of the things you did if you had.
I: I probably wouldn’t have said a lot of things.
Q: Right. (small laugh) But I am sneaky; (“I’M”) you know, I’m not the reincarnation of Nixon. (“BUT UM”) It’s just that people are much more open when they don’t know they’re being recorded. And with a lot of the people I’ve recorded (“I’VE”) I’ve been very careful to tell them that I’m recording. “EXCEPT FOR LIKE”) In some cases, like the family in Oklahoma, they know I’m always recording. (“AND UM”) And, you know, people like you who I’ve interviewed a lot in the past should know better. But (“ME”) I don’t know. I find people are guarded (“WHEN”) when they’re being recorded.
I: Well, it’s because too then (“OVER THE”) all of a sudden whatever they think or say has to become a fucking testimony to the world. That’s why. (“OH BUT LOOK AT IT”)
Q: But look at it this way. I mean I would have no book if I worried about what I was going to say.
I: Well, it’s not worrying about what you’re going to say, it’s just —
Q: I mean there’d be no new Testament for mankind if I was going to worry about what I said or wanted to make sure I was politically correct. (“JUST LOOK AT”) Just look at it this way. If God or Michael or Whatever/Whoever had chosen Warren Beatty to write the new Testament, it would be (“LIKE”) a couple paragraphs long. At best. (“AND HE WAS”) Remember, he was in “Heaven Can Wait.” That was a Paramount film. And “Reds” — that was a Paramount film. I mean there’s a definite Paramount tie-in here. So I don’t know.
I: Well, my friend Nancy who called while you were on the phone with me works over at Paramount.
Q: Oh really? And isn’t that interesting she just happened to call at that moment?
I: Well, I called her and she returned the phone call. (“OF MINE”)
Q: But, still, it’s (“III”) interesting. I mean I can tell when people call me, for example, it’s almost like Michael’s orchestrating when they call. It’s (“YOU KNOW I MEAN”) really interesting. For example, I wanted — (“YOU KNOW”) you know, I made a painting for you. (“UM” “YYY”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #30, SIDE #1 ENDS HERE.)