INTERVIEW — TAPE #3, SIDE #1
Q: Mark Gordon Russell (interviewer)
M: Maxine Mc Wethy (the mother)
T: Twyla Eller (daughter)
B: Brenda Bell (daughter)
K: Kim Carrell (daughter)
F: Marla Ward (nicknamed Fae; daughter)
Y: Megan Eller (Twyla's daughter)
E: Eric Carrell (one of Kim's sons, age 4)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SOON AFTER PLACING A NEW CASSETTE INSIDE MY TAPE RECORDER, MEGAN COMES OVER TO ME AND CLOBBERS ME WITH HER BAG OF CHEESE PUFFS.)
Q: Oow!
M: He don’t want to play, goddamn it. (laughs) Is Michael behind you? You’re sure throwing that awful strong.
Q: She’s as bad as Michael. I guess the question is where do we draw the line in terms of where the phenomena begins and ends? (“I GUESS”) So what are some more things you can remember it saying in terms of its predictions?
M: I don’t remember.
Q: You probably don’t remember key words because it talks so much.
T: Uh-huh.
M: Except I don’t remember him predicting anything except about Paramount Pictures.
Q: But we were talking earlier about some other things he predicted like the incident involving the flat tire.
M: Did you tell him about letting the air out of Frieda’s tire out here?
T: Mama, I’ve had so much.
M: I know it. There’s so much. (“SOUNDS GOOD”)
Q: Once I know what’s going on I can sort of zero in on the main area of what’s happening if anyone can. I was just telling her a few of the (“YOU KNOW”) anecdotes from some of the other cases throughout history. There are lots of interesting parallels. People like her were once accused of being witches.
M: Did you tell him about the organ that time in my room? I was out there pulling weeds outside this window one day and she hollered at me to come in. My organ was sitting in there (“NICE”) and he had it turned on. He had a pot of flowers sitting there and that organ was just going BLUUUOOONNNAAA. And it had a bunch of Teddy Bears laying on the bed. It scared me to death. I said, “Oh my gosh. That’s just like a funeral.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A BRIEF HIATUS I TURN THE TAPE RECORDER BACK ON WHEN MAXINE BEGINS TALKING ABOUT BEING OSTRACIZED FROM HER CHURCH.)
M: It hurt me pretty bad. (“WHAT AN”)
Q: What an indictment of society. That’s ignorance.
T: Like you said. At the time when you should need them the most.
M: Well, Kevin came out here — the preacher.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN BEGINS YELLING AGAIN.)
(“SHUT UP”)
M: (to Megan) Oh, hush. (to Eric) Don’t you dare. You’ve been doing that all day. Don’t hit her.
R: Come out here.
T: Frieda told me about it. The first time.
M: The preacher came out here and I was here by myself that day. And he started in on me. He said, “You should have talked to the church about it.” I said, “Kevin, I tried to.” I even took some pictures that he drew of himself to the church. They just looked at me like —
Q: Michael drew a picture of himself?
M: Yeah.
T: Um-huh.
Q: What did he look like? A little alien or something?
T: Just like an alien.
M: Yeah. There were just three hairs sticking up on his head. So I just said to him —
T: I can draw one.
M: — but I don’t know.
Q: Yeah, draw one. Where are my pens? So they don’t want you going to church anymore?
M: No, that’s not correct. I could go back to church. In fact, my sister’s been praying for me to come back. And all the rest of them. I’m going to when everything settles down. Like I told the girls, “I had a dream last night.”
F: Mama, what’s your —
M: I’m busy. (“YOU WERE BUSY THAT NIGHT WERE YOU”) “I can’t ever remember a dream I dreamed but last night I remember. I was in the church. Then they were having the invitation and I was thinking I need to go up and be restored.” (“PHEW”)
Q: Really?
M: But I didn’t. And I couldn’t remember anything else. (“IS THAT REALLY”) That was all the dream. (“YEAH”) Michael drew Fae the whole body one time and she couldn’t bear it.
M: Yeah. That’s the face he drew.
Q: It’s good. He’s a good cartoonist.
M: We used to write grocery lists and every time he’d put pork chops at the bottom of it. And he was left-handed because the writing was kind of slanted.
Q: How does it talk? Does it talk very much like a regular person?
T: Uh-uh.
Q: No?
T: The sound of it isn’t.
Q: The sound isn’t but its mannerisms —
T: He sounds like Mickey Mouse. (“MICKEY MOUSE”)
M: I wish I could find that tape. I don’t know what I’ve done with it.
Q: You said that you heard it on one of my tapes so I can listen to that later when its quiet. (“BUT USUALLY THEY”) Other poltergeist voices were usually described as very high-pitched and metallic. I don’t know what the metallic-sounding aspect is. That’s how they described it. They couldn’t tell if it was a man or a woman.
T: Megan, stop it. You’ve been nothing but —
Q: Terrible twos.
M: Hey, you turned off the air conditioner.
T: — trouble all day
Q: Terrible twos. (“WHOH” “YOU THINK”) I think as soon as she has a better command of English it will get better.
T: Oh gosh.
Q: (small laugh) She’s more of a problem than the spook.
Y: (sounds like) I did not.
M: (to Megan) Sit down.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE SLAPS MEGAN’S REAR.)
M: You’re going to fall. (“CAUSE”) Well — (“I RECKON”)
Q: (overlapping) Toy’s cute. Even Michael would like this toy. It would remind him of his UFO.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A PROMINENT SPIRIT WHINE CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
(“IT SUCKS”)
( . . . )
B: Me, Mama and Twyla were in the living room. I was sitting on the floor and something came scooting across the floor toward me.
Q: A furry thing?
B: I couldn’t see it.
M: We’ve seen furry things.
B: I just heard it fly across the carpet before me. (“NO”)
T: People told us about a house in Ada where there were some people found dead years and years ago. And they couldn’t figure out why they were dead. Later on, the house was being torn down and they found furry black balls underneath the house just everywhere. It looked like what we’ve seen — scattered everywhere. Strange.
Q: But what were they, though?
T: They don’t know.
Q: Were they animals or were they something sewn together?
T: Skin or something. I think that’s what scared them. Makes you wonder. (“IT DOES”)
Q: It does but — when people start hearing these things (“YOU KNOW”) it’s easy to be put off in terms of how to make sense of it all. (“BUT”) It does take time. You should keep a diary. And (“AND WHEN IT”) when it says things you should write down what it says. Or just sit down one day and try to —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS THE SOUND OF AN OBJECT FALLING ON THE TAPE HERE THAT WE DIDN’T NOTICE DURING THE INTERVIEW.)
Q: — remember the various things it has said over the years. (“WILL IT”) Will it talk later? Tonight? Will it ever talk with anyone while I’m here?
T: It could.
Q: Could we ask it to talk with us now?
T: Tonight?
Q: Or even now? I mean (“WHAT — WHAT”) it doesn’t really do that, does it?
T: Not on command.
Q: Right. Just when he wants to. (“THAT’S ONE WAY OF SAYING IT”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: KIM’S HUSBAND, STEVEN, AND MAXINE’S SON’S CHILDREN, HOLLI AND JERRY, ENTER.)
T: Hi, Holli.
M: Hi, Holli.
L: I have to read . . .
T: Hi, Jerry.
M: That bird should settle down, tonight. (AHHHHHH” “HI HOLLY”)
M: Ahhhhhh.
K: (to her shirtless husband and nephew) I swear. You all came in naked?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WE AGAIN BEGIN DISCUSSING THE VISITATION OF THE OWLS.)
Q: How many of them were there again?
T: I don’t know, but (“YOU COULD”) there are some bushes across here back in the woods. You could see their eyes and hear them hooting. Just hoot hoot hoot hoot hoot hoot all over. And then I went to Brenda’s room in the back where those buildings are. There was one on the clothesline and it flew off across — (“SO EITHER THEY WERE”)
Q: Either they were migrating or they were some —
T: It might have just been when they stopped to rest.
Q: — kind of omen. Did anything strange happen that day? Was there any cataclysmic event that happened in the area?
T: It was pretty wild later on that night, though, I think. (“ABOUT THE GUN”)
Q: When did you first realize this is a problem that isn’t going away?
T: When they started throwing inside of the house. We knew that wasn’t oil, gas, kids.
M: We thought it was over with. (“UH-HUH”)
T: That’s when we knew it was something bigger. (“NOT THIS WEEKEND”)
Q: Usually it starts outside and then it comes inside?
T: Yeah.
Q: That’s true. (“IS — IS THAT FACT”) For most cases. (“ALL THE SAME ONE”) But the one thing that you haven’t had (“WHICH”) — I’ve seen in so many other cases ([GERMAN] “JA WOHL”) — is the sighting of strange animals other than the (“AHH”) little black furballs.
M: Well, the animals went wild out here. It —
T: No. Seeing strange animals.
M: Except for that dog. Dead dog.
T: The dog that never dies. (small laugh) Nine-lived dog.
Q: And apparitions. No one’s ever seen apparitions.
T: Not really. I’ve seen a little girl and a little boy with milky blonde hair in a hospital gown.
M: I did too. One night, Twyla and a bunch of kids from Ada (“YEAH”) went riding around. And me and Desireé, her little oldest girl, were here. And Bill was back there in bed. Me and Desireé were in here by ourselves and I heard something outside. I shut that door and locked it. And I don’t know why I went over here to the window and looked out but you could see the head of this little old kid going right around the whole house, though. (“NO”)
T: I know.
M: That freaked me out.
Q: Did it resemble the photo (“UH-HUH”) here of the ones in the window? (“NO”)
M: No.
Q: Did it resemble this photo of the faces in the window?
M: No. I just saw the head of it. It was blonde-headed.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I INDICATE TWYLA’S DRAWING.)
M: It didn’t look nothing like that. (“BUT IT”)
Q: But there was another photo I saw once that looked amazingly like this. I’m just trying to remember. I think it was on one of those shows like “The Extraordinary” or something.
M: I didn’t see its face. I just saw the little blonde head.
Q: And what do you think? (“DO YOU THINK IT WAS”) One of the orphanage stunts?
M: I think it must have been because there’s more kids who saw that.
T: They’re in hospital gowns.
M: Yeah? (“WHAT DID HE LOOK LIKE”) Well, I didn’t see that.
T: Nobody’s seen the same thing already.
M: I just saw the top of his head going around.
T: It’s always a rainy night.
M: I didn’t see the clothes.
T: Maybe they died on a rainy night. I don’t know. You never know.
Q: Maybe he’s living here.
M: That might have something to do with it. (“SO”)
Q: What do you think its objective is? Or their objective?
M: I can’t even think right now.
T: LMNO kept asking “What do you think?” I don’t know. Don’t ask me if I know because I don’t.
Q: Well, it seems (“YEAH”) I have to get some good information. (“YEAH”) When you start thinking about it, (“YOU GET”) some good information has come out. I just haven’t had time to go over all the information yet. (“I’M JUST”) I’m just trying to put it together in terms of the gamut of events. (“HMM”) You know?
M: Remember that time all those stuffed toys in there had been placed on the bed as if they were watching that big old ball game? (“YEAH”) She told me to come in there and look. She found it first. They had a blanket stretched over the bed. They had that game at the head of the bed and at the foot of the bed (“OOOOOOH”) they had all these Teddy Bears sitting there and watching it. That was strange. (“THERE’S”)
Q: Well, there’s so many strange things.
M: It’s like little kids playing. (“BUT YOU KNOW”)
Q: As I was saying to Twyla, (“YOU KNOW”) there’s enough room upstairs in your attic that you don’t really know what’s going on up here.
M: Did you tell him about them hammering up there one time? We asked them what they were doing. They said, “WE’RE ADDING ON.”
T: They need to add on.
Q: What are they adding on?
M: I don’t know.
T: More rooms for the family, I suppose.
Q: What is up there?
M: But he was hammering up there.
Q: There must be something going on up there.
T: It’s so hot up there.
M: And all that fiberglass.
T: Makes you wonder if Saturn’s so hot. Maybe that’s why they like it. (“REMEMBER WHEN IT USED TO” “BUT THERE’S”)
Q: The minute we opened the attic door it threw a penny.
T: Mama, I was taking a picture for him. (“TRUE”)
Q: There must be something more going on.
M: I bet the attic is full of them upstairs.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: METALLIC-SOUNDING SPIRIT GIGGLING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
Q: I do too. (“YOU”)
T: You’re both so crazy.
M: (laughs)
Q: No.
T: Come on.
M: It’s weird.
T: Are we stupid and crazy?
Q: What about the other Bell case?
T: I would never have believed these things could happen. I would have laughed at people who said this stuff.
M: I know it.
T: That’s another reason why I think maybe they’re here — to make people believe.
M: That’s possible because we would never have believed.
T: I never believed in ghosts. Never. I didn’t believe in anything.
Q: But even the photograph of the transparent faces in the window (“YOU KNOW”) isn’t enough to convert somebody who doesn’t believe in it.
M: Everybody that has looked at that — it has spooked them. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: But the faces aren’t obviously human although you can see the eyes and the nose.
M: How many can you find in there?
T: I see three.
M: Somebody came up with five.
Q: Well, it looks like —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS THE SOUND OF AN OBJECT FALLING ON THE TAPE HERE THAT WE DIDN’T NOTICE DURING THE INTERVIEW.)
Q: — even here there are some.
M: Yeah.
T: (overlapping) Yeah. Um-huh. Some people might say it’s a trick.
Q: Or it’s a coincidence.
M: But look at this.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE AGAIN SHOWS ME THE PHOTO WITH THE APPARITION OF THE LITTLE GIRL WITH BRAIDS.)
M: Inside the van there’s an apparition of a black guy with a head band on.
T: I can’t see him.
M: See the head band?
K: I don’t believe it.
M: Or a dark person. I can’t tell which. There was nobody in the van when we took the picture.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE PHOTO IS OLD WITH RED SPOTS YET THIS FAINT IMAGE CAN BE DISTINGUISHED.)
Q: This brings another parallel.
( . . . )
Q: There’s a book that’s been written on that subject. (“ARE YOU SURE”)
T: I’ve never heard of that.
Q: So it’s going to be hard to put this together. I’m going to separate the accounts into various sections, outline each one and then try to relate them all. Of course, you also have to write down the key (“RUSSELL”) dramatic events in your own lives, you know. You have to determine what those were. (“RIGHT”)
T: Um-huh.
Q: You should probably work on a timeline of events. In fact, we should be working on a rough timeline right now (“AAHHHHH”) even though I know you’re awfully tired. Do you want to rest, maybe? (“OH RIGHT”)
T: I’m okay. I’m just — (“OH”)
Q: I don’t know why but I have lots of energy. This is like a vacation for me. ([TRYING TO VOMIT] “HUHH”)
Q: This is great.
M: I’m glad something happened.
Q: I saw the table move.
T: You’ve never seen any (“HUH”) poltergeist activity before, have you?
Q: No. I’ve never been looking either. (laughs) (“NO”)
M: We got somebody up there in the attic that throws stuff. (laughs) (“HA HA”)
Q: Imagine putting up with that heat. It’s amazing but some people will be convinced that this is a hoax.
M: Yeah.
Q: Unbelievable.
M: Some people thought we had wires hooked up out here. (“IS IT — HERE — HERE WE GO”)
T: Oh, like we’d have the brain (“NO”) power to do something like that.
M: Everybody has checked this house out.
B: No — we were brilliant.
M: And they knew it. (“YEAH”) Well, I wouldn’t know how to do that.
T: Even LMNO had people come out here and test. (“OKAY NOW THIS IS”)
Q: Before they researched what they’re dealing with here.
M: We wouldn’t have enough sense to do anything like that, anyway. I wouldn’t. (S) I know Brenda wouldn’t. (laughs)
B: Thanks a lot.
Q: Reality’s different for everybody, anyway, you know?
M: A lot of people ask us, “How can you live out here? I couldn’t live out here for nothing.”
Q: I studied one case where they decided to leave and the poltergeist just followed. They saw a table walking behind them so they just turned around and went back.
M: He said he would (“WHO”) if we moved. (“SO”)
Q: That’s what they say.
T: “Why don’t you move? Why don’t you move?”
M: I said, “It ain’t bothering me.” (“SO”)
T: I moved out of this house. (small laugh) (“I’VE ENJOY”)
M: I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve had a lot of fun.
Q: I’m going to do a time frame and I’m just going to list all the important family events not having to do with the poltergeist happenings. Since June 1990.
T: Do you know how many friends we’ve made from this? Hundreds of friends that still come over.
M: Did you tell him about Colin Boyd of KADH radio station?
T: No, Mother, I don’t — I can’t handle —
M: He was out here sitting on the couch one night and she had a big old bottle of stuff in the bathroom (“NO”) that she died her hair blonde with.
T: Bleach.
M: He’s black-haired and it hit him.
T: (laughs)
M: That left a big old red spot on him. (“OH THAT’S GREAT”)
B: He’s never been back up. (“YEAH”)
M: Michael got two of my shoes from the bedroom and hit him twice.
Q: Shhhhhh. (“OKAY”)
M: One once and one a little while later. That was weird.
Q: In L.A. you’d probably have a lawsuit. God.
K: There’s even a doctor who comes down here and speaks to him. And two nurses.
Q: What kind of a doctor? (“HE’S THIS”)
K: This doctor that works with the Indians out at the hospital. Dr. Murphy. Dr. Hilton also used to come out here.
Q: We’ll have to just wait and see if we hear him again. Is this part of your normal day-to-day life? These little things that keep happening? It doesn’t really overwhelm your life. It’s just sort of an aspect of it.
M: Yeah.
E: You want to go outside? Can Megan go outside?
T: Are you going to watch her?
E: Yeah. I always do.
T: Alright. Don’t let her down out of your sight.
E: I won’t. Jump down.
T: E.T. is crazy about the “E.T.” movie.
Q: Oh, did he see that?
T: He loves “E.T.” He cries.
Q: Was he crying as he watched “E.T.”?
T: Yeah. He just hated it when they captured it.
Q Oh, this is so freaky.
M: That is a good movie although it’s bad. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: It’s good but it’s so corny, though. What would somebody who says that they’re from Saturn say about this obvious Hollywood concoction?
T: Yeah, really. Somebody’s really warped.
Q: With the glowing heart and everything? I mean come on. Did it have anything to say about those things?
T: No.
Q: It didn’t? I would think it would have credibility problems with the plot. (laughs) (“YEAH REALLY”) I did too. Actually, I think E.T. was an android robot (“NO”) being recharged when the UFO came. ([‘E.T.’] “THAT’S IT”) It was like a humanoid — you know, part being.
M: I think it’s basically a kid’s movie.
Q: Yeah, but a lot of people did research on it. They didn’t want it to be too literal. Some people think those E.T.s — those aliens with big eyes are robots. They don’t think they’re living beings but robots for other beings.
T: Yeah. You never know. (“SO LET’S SEE”)
Q: So what major things have happened in your family since June 1990 not having anything to do with the phenomena? What year were you married and things like that?
T: When was I married?
Q: This started happening in June 1990. Who was in the house from that time on?
T: Oh gosh. (“THINGS LIKE THAT”)
Q: I know it’s hard to remember but (“SEE THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE GOING”) that’s what you’re going to have to do in order for this at some point to become a book and a film. (“YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE”) At some point, you’re going to have to really be clear on A – B – C – D – E. You don’t have to be clear on every detail but just in general terms. What concrete things can you remember? Major things like someone living in the house moving from the house and things like that. It’s hard because you were not really paying attention. I probably couldn’t do that about my own life. Having this activity around you might help you remember certain oc — (“CASIONS” “WE’RE OVER HERE” “NOW LOOK AT”)
( . . . )
(“SO WHAT WAS”)
Q: What’s worse? The kids or the poltergeist?
M: (laughs)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TWYLA HAS JUST BEEN TOLD ABOUT SOME APPARENT DEFECATION BEING FOUND ON THE WALL IN THE LIVING ROOM WITH MEGAN BEING THE PRIME SUSPECT.)
T: When did she do that? She never had poop on her fingers.
M: Have you changed her today?
T: Yeah. I just changed her when you were here. (to me) Did she have any poo-poo on her fingers that you’ve seen?
Q: Not that I’ve seen. I would notice that real quick. (“WASN’T ME — I DON’T SEE ANYTHING”) You don’t think it was her?
T: She never had it on her finger like that.
Q: Was it any kind of drawing?
M: It was just all over the wall right in there. ([ECHO] “OKAY”) I need to get that off the wall.
Q: You never know with this — you know?
T: It wasn’t my kid. I’ll tell you that right now.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: HOLLI AND ERIC ENTER.)
E: Her ponytail holder’s got her.
M: You want me to take her back?
E: No, I want you to get her down.
M: Well, Holli, you’re too big to be on his neck.
Q: (small laugh)
L: I’ll get down.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS MAKING NOISE AGAIN.)
Q: Shhhhhh. (“OH NOT AGAIN”)
M: You’re hot, Holli. You better stay in. (“HUH”)
Y: No. No. No.
M: Yes. Yes.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS TO CRY AGAIN.)
T: (to Megan, giving her something to play with) Don’t put it in your mouth now. I’m going to watch you. (“SHE DID IT”)
Q: She already did it.
T: Megan. (“SPOIL”) Get it out of your mouth. (“OH THAT’S GONNA HURT” “OH GOD”)
Q: Oh God. (“THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLE”) You don’t need to go back to a hospital.
M: I can’t run no more. (“SHHHHHH” “HAAH” “OH” “YOU CAN COME IN THERE”)
B: When is Steve getting back?
T: Not soon enough. (“NEVER SEEN SOME FALL OFF”)
Q: What about Halloween? Has anything ever happened on Halloween? (“YES” “THOSE”) That’s a time of the year when things especially seem to happen.
B: We thought it would but it didn’t happen. (“BUT THEN”) The first year after we thought it would.
Q: (to entity) You should just come here so I can ask you (“WHAT CAN YOU DO”) about the things that have happened. He probably wouldn’t say, though. (“OOH”)
M: We’ve tried to ask him things. (“I THINK”)
Q: You said people come to visit him to converse with him.
M: Yeah.
Q: So he does have long conversations sometimes. (“UM-HUH YEAH” “I JUST — IT’S HARD”)
M: We had an Ada newspaper box (“UM-HUH”) out there by the road. Didn’t you walk out there with me that day when we found this big old rat that somebody had cut the head off before putting its body in the mailbox?
B: Didn’t even put stamps on it.
M: (laughs)
Q: That’s probably what happened.
T: Another time they pulled it up and threw it in the ditch.
M: I think (“IT WAS YOU”) I know who must have done that.
Q: When this story hits the TV shows, you’re going to have a lot of problems like that. You really need, maybe, to have a publicist or someone.
M: Well, nothing else has bothered me so that won’t either.
Q: You never know what kind of crazies are out there. Just be careful.
M: I get as crazy as they are. (laughs)
Q: Yeah, but (“YOU KNOW”) sometimes its useful to make a lot of money for the kids’ security. (“WHERE DO YOU GET SECURE”) Oh gosh. (“WELL I GUESS YOU’VE GOT ONE”) One thing that’s good for you is that you live so faraway from —
T: I’ve got security. I live with security. I have my own security.
Q: Well, yeah. But who wants to put up with all that nonsense? So much nonsense. Like dead rats in newspaper boxes.
E: She dodoed.
K: Huh?
E: She dodoed.
K: Wait a minute — wait a minute — wait a minute —
E: Megan dodoed.
T: Were there markings on the wall?
K: Yes.
E: Nuh-uh.
T: She’ll never do that. I’ve never seen her do that.
Y: Pop. Grandpa.
E: One time I got water thrown all over me.
Q: Michael threw water on you? What were you doing that made him mad?
E: Nothing.
T: You’ve had a rough night, Jerry. Didn’t get enough sleep, did you?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WE AGAIN DISCUSS BILL’S CONDITION.)
Q: A lot of people who do that though don’t get punished. A lot of people get —
(“GET AWAY WITH MURDER”)
T: That’s true.
E: (at refrigerator spilling something) Yahhhhh.
Q: That’s right but when you think about it, like we all actually do it sometimes ([ECHO] S) — like, you know, O. J. and people like that. (“UM-HUH”)
E: Can I have any pop?
T: You’ll get it somewhere.
Q: Yeah. It’s like —
E: May I have any lemonade?
( . . . )
Q: That’s when it started? When Desireé was two?
T: When what started?
Q: How does that fit in with the timeline?
T: I think there’s a relationship. (“OH NO”)
Q: How old were you when you had Desireé?
T: Sixteen. (“SIXTEEN”)
Q: Very young.
T: Um-huh. (“SHE’S SEVEN AND-A-HALF” “THAT’S”)
Q: That’s quite a challenge to take on. (“RIGHT”)
T: Oh, I’m telling you.
Q: That’s good but you couldn’t even consider abortion?
T: No, I wouldn’t.
Q: Right, no, I applaud you, listen. (“RIGHT” “WOULD HAVE ADOPTED”) Did you ever think about putting the baby up for adoption?
T: Uh-uh.
Q: That’s fine. You had a very supportive family.
T: A very non-prejudiced family.
Q: I think that (“YOU KNOW”) adoption is always an alternative to abortion.
T: Yeah, that’s true.
Q: People just don’t consider that. (“YEAH THAT’S RIGHT”) Those babies get good homes. Those people who want the children take care of them. Sometimes when these young girls have babies who don’t have a good family like you I think it would be best for everyone concerned if the baby was put up for adoption.
T: Yeah.
Q: It’s different with you because you had a supportive family. (“SINCE YOU KNOW”) It’s very important to trying to be clear on this so you met Desireé’s father in high school? How old were you when you met him? Twelve? (“OBVIOUSLY”) Or maybe you just went to school together all your life, probably.
T: I met him when I was almost fifteen. (“BECAUSE”)
Q: The story that comes out of all this will be just as much about your life as it is about (“RIGHT”) the strange aspects. All the aspects — even the funny aspects are important. (“BLOOD”) Let me just make sure I have some of the correct details for an overview. What year were you born? I’m not good at math.
T: 1972. (“SEVENTY-TWO”)
Q: What’s your birthday?
T: March 16th. (“HERE”) What? (“WHO’S THAT”)
Q: Okay, and so (“YOU MAKE IT”) you gave birth at sixteen. (“DOUBLE CHECK” “DO NO”) Was he a supportive dad?
T: He still is.
Q: That’s good. (“WEIRD”)
T: She’s with him now.
R: (surprising me) Puogh!
M: You said you were going to tell him some stuff.
Q: Oh good.
M: So go ahead and tell him.
R: The same stuff happened to me that did to everybody else.
Q: What’s your relation to —
M: He’s my grandson. My oldest grand kid. (“IS THAT RIGHT”)
T: He’s my brother’s son.
Q: Oow!
M: He don’t want to play, goddamn it. (laughs) Is Michael behind you? You’re sure throwing that awful strong.
Q: She’s as bad as Michael. I guess the question is where do we draw the line in terms of where the phenomena begins and ends? (“I GUESS”) So what are some more things you can remember it saying in terms of its predictions?
M: I don’t remember.
Q: You probably don’t remember key words because it talks so much.
T: Uh-huh.
M: Except I don’t remember him predicting anything except about Paramount Pictures.
Q: But we were talking earlier about some other things he predicted like the incident involving the flat tire.
M: Did you tell him about letting the air out of Frieda’s tire out here?
T: Mama, I’ve had so much.
M: I know it. There’s so much. (“SOUNDS GOOD”)
Q: Once I know what’s going on I can sort of zero in on the main area of what’s happening if anyone can. I was just telling her a few of the (“YOU KNOW”) anecdotes from some of the other cases throughout history. There are lots of interesting parallels. People like her were once accused of being witches.
M: Did you tell him about the organ that time in my room? I was out there pulling weeds outside this window one day and she hollered at me to come in. My organ was sitting in there (“NICE”) and he had it turned on. He had a pot of flowers sitting there and that organ was just going BLUUUOOONNNAAA. And it had a bunch of Teddy Bears laying on the bed. It scared me to death. I said, “Oh my gosh. That’s just like a funeral.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A BRIEF HIATUS I TURN THE TAPE RECORDER BACK ON WHEN MAXINE BEGINS TALKING ABOUT BEING OSTRACIZED FROM HER CHURCH.)
M: It hurt me pretty bad. (“WHAT AN”)
Q: What an indictment of society. That’s ignorance.
T: Like you said. At the time when you should need them the most.
M: Well, Kevin came out here — the preacher.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN BEGINS YELLING AGAIN.)
(“SHUT UP”)
M: (to Megan) Oh, hush. (to Eric) Don’t you dare. You’ve been doing that all day. Don’t hit her.
R: Come out here.
T: Frieda told me about it. The first time.
M: The preacher came out here and I was here by myself that day. And he started in on me. He said, “You should have talked to the church about it.” I said, “Kevin, I tried to.” I even took some pictures that he drew of himself to the church. They just looked at me like —
Q: Michael drew a picture of himself?
M: Yeah.
T: Um-huh.
Q: What did he look like? A little alien or something?
T: Just like an alien.
M: Yeah. There were just three hairs sticking up on his head. So I just said to him —
T: I can draw one.
M: — but I don’t know.
Q: Yeah, draw one. Where are my pens? So they don’t want you going to church anymore?
M: No, that’s not correct. I could go back to church. In fact, my sister’s been praying for me to come back. And all the rest of them. I’m going to when everything settles down. Like I told the girls, “I had a dream last night.”
F: Mama, what’s your —
M: I’m busy. (“YOU WERE BUSY THAT NIGHT WERE YOU”) “I can’t ever remember a dream I dreamed but last night I remember. I was in the church. Then they were having the invitation and I was thinking I need to go up and be restored.” (“PHEW”)
Q: Really?
M: But I didn’t. And I couldn’t remember anything else. (“IS THAT REALLY”) That was all the dream. (“YEAH”) Michael drew Fae the whole body one time and she couldn’t bear it.
M: Yeah. That’s the face he drew.
Q: It’s good. He’s a good cartoonist.
M: We used to write grocery lists and every time he’d put pork chops at the bottom of it. And he was left-handed because the writing was kind of slanted.
Q: How does it talk? Does it talk very much like a regular person?
T: Uh-uh.
Q: No?
T: The sound of it isn’t.
Q: The sound isn’t but its mannerisms —
T: He sounds like Mickey Mouse. (“MICKEY MOUSE”)
M: I wish I could find that tape. I don’t know what I’ve done with it.
Q: You said that you heard it on one of my tapes so I can listen to that later when its quiet. (“BUT USUALLY THEY”) Other poltergeist voices were usually described as very high-pitched and metallic. I don’t know what the metallic-sounding aspect is. That’s how they described it. They couldn’t tell if it was a man or a woman.
T: Megan, stop it. You’ve been nothing but —
Q: Terrible twos.
M: Hey, you turned off the air conditioner.
T: — trouble all day
Q: Terrible twos. (“WHOH” “YOU THINK”) I think as soon as she has a better command of English it will get better.
T: Oh gosh.
Q: (small laugh) She’s more of a problem than the spook.
Y: (sounds like) I did not.
M: (to Megan) Sit down.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE SLAPS MEGAN’S REAR.)
M: You’re going to fall. (“CAUSE”) Well — (“I RECKON”)
Q: (overlapping) Toy’s cute. Even Michael would like this toy. It would remind him of his UFO.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A PROMINENT SPIRIT WHINE CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
(“IT SUCKS”)
( . . . )
B: Me, Mama and Twyla were in the living room. I was sitting on the floor and something came scooting across the floor toward me.
Q: A furry thing?
B: I couldn’t see it.
M: We’ve seen furry things.
B: I just heard it fly across the carpet before me. (“NO”)
T: People told us about a house in Ada where there were some people found dead years and years ago. And they couldn’t figure out why they were dead. Later on, the house was being torn down and they found furry black balls underneath the house just everywhere. It looked like what we’ve seen — scattered everywhere. Strange.
Q: But what were they, though?
T: They don’t know.
Q: Were they animals or were they something sewn together?
T: Skin or something. I think that’s what scared them. Makes you wonder. (“IT DOES”)
Q: It does but — when people start hearing these things (“YOU KNOW”) it’s easy to be put off in terms of how to make sense of it all. (“BUT”) It does take time. You should keep a diary. And (“AND WHEN IT”) when it says things you should write down what it says. Or just sit down one day and try to —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS THE SOUND OF AN OBJECT FALLING ON THE TAPE HERE THAT WE DIDN’T NOTICE DURING THE INTERVIEW.)
Q: — remember the various things it has said over the years. (“WILL IT”) Will it talk later? Tonight? Will it ever talk with anyone while I’m here?
T: It could.
Q: Could we ask it to talk with us now?
T: Tonight?
Q: Or even now? I mean (“WHAT — WHAT”) it doesn’t really do that, does it?
T: Not on command.
Q: Right. Just when he wants to. (“THAT’S ONE WAY OF SAYING IT”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: KIM’S HUSBAND, STEVEN, AND MAXINE’S SON’S CHILDREN, HOLLI AND JERRY, ENTER.)
T: Hi, Holli.
M: Hi, Holli.
L: I have to read . . .
T: Hi, Jerry.
M: That bird should settle down, tonight. (AHHHHHH” “HI HOLLY”)
M: Ahhhhhh.
K: (to her shirtless husband and nephew) I swear. You all came in naked?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WE AGAIN BEGIN DISCUSSING THE VISITATION OF THE OWLS.)
Q: How many of them were there again?
T: I don’t know, but (“YOU COULD”) there are some bushes across here back in the woods. You could see their eyes and hear them hooting. Just hoot hoot hoot hoot hoot hoot all over. And then I went to Brenda’s room in the back where those buildings are. There was one on the clothesline and it flew off across — (“SO EITHER THEY WERE”)
Q: Either they were migrating or they were some —
T: It might have just been when they stopped to rest.
Q: — kind of omen. Did anything strange happen that day? Was there any cataclysmic event that happened in the area?
T: It was pretty wild later on that night, though, I think. (“ABOUT THE GUN”)
Q: When did you first realize this is a problem that isn’t going away?
T: When they started throwing inside of the house. We knew that wasn’t oil, gas, kids.
M: We thought it was over with. (“UH-HUH”)
T: That’s when we knew it was something bigger. (“NOT THIS WEEKEND”)
Q: Usually it starts outside and then it comes inside?
T: Yeah.
Q: That’s true. (“IS — IS THAT FACT”) For most cases. (“ALL THE SAME ONE”) But the one thing that you haven’t had (“WHICH”) — I’ve seen in so many other cases ([GERMAN] “JA WOHL”) — is the sighting of strange animals other than the (“AHH”) little black furballs.
M: Well, the animals went wild out here. It —
T: No. Seeing strange animals.
M: Except for that dog. Dead dog.
T: The dog that never dies. (small laugh) Nine-lived dog.
Q: And apparitions. No one’s ever seen apparitions.
T: Not really. I’ve seen a little girl and a little boy with milky blonde hair in a hospital gown.
M: I did too. One night, Twyla and a bunch of kids from Ada (“YEAH”) went riding around. And me and Desireé, her little oldest girl, were here. And Bill was back there in bed. Me and Desireé were in here by ourselves and I heard something outside. I shut that door and locked it. And I don’t know why I went over here to the window and looked out but you could see the head of this little old kid going right around the whole house, though. (“NO”)
T: I know.
M: That freaked me out.
Q: Did it resemble the photo (“UH-HUH”) here of the ones in the window? (“NO”)
M: No.
Q: Did it resemble this photo of the faces in the window?
M: No. I just saw the head of it. It was blonde-headed.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I INDICATE TWYLA’S DRAWING.)
M: It didn’t look nothing like that. (“BUT IT”)
Q: But there was another photo I saw once that looked amazingly like this. I’m just trying to remember. I think it was on one of those shows like “The Extraordinary” or something.
M: I didn’t see its face. I just saw the little blonde head.
Q: And what do you think? (“DO YOU THINK IT WAS”) One of the orphanage stunts?
M: I think it must have been because there’s more kids who saw that.
T: They’re in hospital gowns.
M: Yeah? (“WHAT DID HE LOOK LIKE”) Well, I didn’t see that.
T: Nobody’s seen the same thing already.
M: I just saw the top of his head going around.
T: It’s always a rainy night.
M: I didn’t see the clothes.
T: Maybe they died on a rainy night. I don’t know. You never know.
Q: Maybe he’s living here.
M: That might have something to do with it. (“SO”)
Q: What do you think its objective is? Or their objective?
M: I can’t even think right now.
T: LMNO kept asking “What do you think?” I don’t know. Don’t ask me if I know because I don’t.
Q: Well, it seems (“YEAH”) I have to get some good information. (“YEAH”) When you start thinking about it, (“YOU GET”) some good information has come out. I just haven’t had time to go over all the information yet. (“I’M JUST”) I’m just trying to put it together in terms of the gamut of events. (“HMM”) You know?
M: Remember that time all those stuffed toys in there had been placed on the bed as if they were watching that big old ball game? (“YEAH”) She told me to come in there and look. She found it first. They had a blanket stretched over the bed. They had that game at the head of the bed and at the foot of the bed (“OOOOOOH”) they had all these Teddy Bears sitting there and watching it. That was strange. (“THERE’S”)
Q: Well, there’s so many strange things.
M: It’s like little kids playing. (“BUT YOU KNOW”)
Q: As I was saying to Twyla, (“YOU KNOW”) there’s enough room upstairs in your attic that you don’t really know what’s going on up here.
M: Did you tell him about them hammering up there one time? We asked them what they were doing. They said, “WE’RE ADDING ON.”
T: They need to add on.
Q: What are they adding on?
M: I don’t know.
T: More rooms for the family, I suppose.
Q: What is up there?
M: But he was hammering up there.
Q: There must be something going on up there.
T: It’s so hot up there.
M: And all that fiberglass.
T: Makes you wonder if Saturn’s so hot. Maybe that’s why they like it. (“REMEMBER WHEN IT USED TO” “BUT THERE’S”)
Q: The minute we opened the attic door it threw a penny.
T: Mama, I was taking a picture for him. (“TRUE”)
Q: There must be something more going on.
M: I bet the attic is full of them upstairs.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: METALLIC-SOUNDING SPIRIT GIGGLING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
Q: I do too. (“YOU”)
T: You’re both so crazy.
M: (laughs)
Q: No.
T: Come on.
M: It’s weird.
T: Are we stupid and crazy?
Q: What about the other Bell case?
T: I would never have believed these things could happen. I would have laughed at people who said this stuff.
M: I know it.
T: That’s another reason why I think maybe they’re here — to make people believe.
M: That’s possible because we would never have believed.
T: I never believed in ghosts. Never. I didn’t believe in anything.
Q: But even the photograph of the transparent faces in the window (“YOU KNOW”) isn’t enough to convert somebody who doesn’t believe in it.
M: Everybody that has looked at that — it has spooked them. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: But the faces aren’t obviously human although you can see the eyes and the nose.
M: How many can you find in there?
T: I see three.
M: Somebody came up with five.
Q: Well, it looks like —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS THE SOUND OF AN OBJECT FALLING ON THE TAPE HERE THAT WE DIDN’T NOTICE DURING THE INTERVIEW.)
Q: — even here there are some.
M: Yeah.
T: (overlapping) Yeah. Um-huh. Some people might say it’s a trick.
Q: Or it’s a coincidence.
M: But look at this.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE AGAIN SHOWS ME THE PHOTO WITH THE APPARITION OF THE LITTLE GIRL WITH BRAIDS.)
M: Inside the van there’s an apparition of a black guy with a head band on.
T: I can’t see him.
M: See the head band?
K: I don’t believe it.
M: Or a dark person. I can’t tell which. There was nobody in the van when we took the picture.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE PHOTO IS OLD WITH RED SPOTS YET THIS FAINT IMAGE CAN BE DISTINGUISHED.)
Q: This brings another parallel.
( . . . )
Q: There’s a book that’s been written on that subject. (“ARE YOU SURE”)
T: I’ve never heard of that.
Q: So it’s going to be hard to put this together. I’m going to separate the accounts into various sections, outline each one and then try to relate them all. Of course, you also have to write down the key (“RUSSELL”) dramatic events in your own lives, you know. You have to determine what those were. (“RIGHT”)
T: Um-huh.
Q: You should probably work on a timeline of events. In fact, we should be working on a rough timeline right now (“AAHHHHH”) even though I know you’re awfully tired. Do you want to rest, maybe? (“OH RIGHT”)
T: I’m okay. I’m just — (“OH”)
Q: I don’t know why but I have lots of energy. This is like a vacation for me. ([TRYING TO VOMIT] “HUHH”)
Q: This is great.
M: I’m glad something happened.
Q: I saw the table move.
T: You’ve never seen any (“HUH”) poltergeist activity before, have you?
Q: No. I’ve never been looking either. (laughs) (“NO”)
M: We got somebody up there in the attic that throws stuff. (laughs) (“HA HA”)
Q: Imagine putting up with that heat. It’s amazing but some people will be convinced that this is a hoax.
M: Yeah.
Q: Unbelievable.
M: Some people thought we had wires hooked up out here. (“IS IT — HERE — HERE WE GO”)
T: Oh, like we’d have the brain (“NO”) power to do something like that.
M: Everybody has checked this house out.
B: No — we were brilliant.
M: And they knew it. (“YEAH”) Well, I wouldn’t know how to do that.
T: Even LMNO had people come out here and test. (“OKAY NOW THIS IS”)
Q: Before they researched what they’re dealing with here.
M: We wouldn’t have enough sense to do anything like that, anyway. I wouldn’t. (S) I know Brenda wouldn’t. (laughs)
B: Thanks a lot.
Q: Reality’s different for everybody, anyway, you know?
M: A lot of people ask us, “How can you live out here? I couldn’t live out here for nothing.”
Q: I studied one case where they decided to leave and the poltergeist just followed. They saw a table walking behind them so they just turned around and went back.
M: He said he would (“WHO”) if we moved. (“SO”)
Q: That’s what they say.
T: “Why don’t you move? Why don’t you move?”
M: I said, “It ain’t bothering me.” (“SO”)
T: I moved out of this house. (small laugh) (“I’VE ENJOY”)
M: I’ve enjoyed it. I’ve had a lot of fun.
Q: I’m going to do a time frame and I’m just going to list all the important family events not having to do with the poltergeist happenings. Since June 1990.
T: Do you know how many friends we’ve made from this? Hundreds of friends that still come over.
M: Did you tell him about Colin Boyd of KADH radio station?
T: No, Mother, I don’t — I can’t handle —
M: He was out here sitting on the couch one night and she had a big old bottle of stuff in the bathroom (“NO”) that she died her hair blonde with.
T: Bleach.
M: He’s black-haired and it hit him.
T: (laughs)
M: That left a big old red spot on him. (“OH THAT’S GREAT”)
B: He’s never been back up. (“YEAH”)
M: Michael got two of my shoes from the bedroom and hit him twice.
Q: Shhhhhh. (“OKAY”)
M: One once and one a little while later. That was weird.
Q: In L.A. you’d probably have a lawsuit. God.
K: There’s even a doctor who comes down here and speaks to him. And two nurses.
Q: What kind of a doctor? (“HE’S THIS”)
K: This doctor that works with the Indians out at the hospital. Dr. Murphy. Dr. Hilton also used to come out here.
Q: We’ll have to just wait and see if we hear him again. Is this part of your normal day-to-day life? These little things that keep happening? It doesn’t really overwhelm your life. It’s just sort of an aspect of it.
M: Yeah.
E: You want to go outside? Can Megan go outside?
T: Are you going to watch her?
E: Yeah. I always do.
T: Alright. Don’t let her down out of your sight.
E: I won’t. Jump down.
T: E.T. is crazy about the “E.T.” movie.
Q: Oh, did he see that?
T: He loves “E.T.” He cries.
Q: Was he crying as he watched “E.T.”?
T: Yeah. He just hated it when they captured it.
Q Oh, this is so freaky.
M: That is a good movie although it’s bad. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: It’s good but it’s so corny, though. What would somebody who says that they’re from Saturn say about this obvious Hollywood concoction?
T: Yeah, really. Somebody’s really warped.
Q: With the glowing heart and everything? I mean come on. Did it have anything to say about those things?
T: No.
Q: It didn’t? I would think it would have credibility problems with the plot. (laughs) (“YEAH REALLY”) I did too. Actually, I think E.T. was an android robot (“NO”) being recharged when the UFO came. ([‘E.T.’] “THAT’S IT”) It was like a humanoid — you know, part being.
M: I think it’s basically a kid’s movie.
Q: Yeah, but a lot of people did research on it. They didn’t want it to be too literal. Some people think those E.T.s — those aliens with big eyes are robots. They don’t think they’re living beings but robots for other beings.
T: Yeah. You never know. (“SO LET’S SEE”)
Q: So what major things have happened in your family since June 1990 not having anything to do with the phenomena? What year were you married and things like that?
T: When was I married?
Q: This started happening in June 1990. Who was in the house from that time on?
T: Oh gosh. (“THINGS LIKE THAT”)
Q: I know it’s hard to remember but (“SEE THAT’S WHAT YOU’RE GOING”) that’s what you’re going to have to do in order for this at some point to become a book and a film. (“YOU’RE GOING TO HAVE”) At some point, you’re going to have to really be clear on A – B – C – D – E. You don’t have to be clear on every detail but just in general terms. What concrete things can you remember? Major things like someone living in the house moving from the house and things like that. It’s hard because you were not really paying attention. I probably couldn’t do that about my own life. Having this activity around you might help you remember certain oc — (“CASIONS” “WE’RE OVER HERE” “NOW LOOK AT”)
( . . . )
(“SO WHAT WAS”)
Q: What’s worse? The kids or the poltergeist?
M: (laughs)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TWYLA HAS JUST BEEN TOLD ABOUT SOME APPARENT DEFECATION BEING FOUND ON THE WALL IN THE LIVING ROOM WITH MEGAN BEING THE PRIME SUSPECT.)
T: When did she do that? She never had poop on her fingers.
M: Have you changed her today?
T: Yeah. I just changed her when you were here. (to me) Did she have any poo-poo on her fingers that you’ve seen?
Q: Not that I’ve seen. I would notice that real quick. (“WASN’T ME — I DON’T SEE ANYTHING”) You don’t think it was her?
T: She never had it on her finger like that.
Q: Was it any kind of drawing?
M: It was just all over the wall right in there. ([ECHO] “OKAY”) I need to get that off the wall.
Q: You never know with this — you know?
T: It wasn’t my kid. I’ll tell you that right now.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: HOLLI AND ERIC ENTER.)
E: Her ponytail holder’s got her.
M: You want me to take her back?
E: No, I want you to get her down.
M: Well, Holli, you’re too big to be on his neck.
Q: (small laugh)
L: I’ll get down.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS MAKING NOISE AGAIN.)
Q: Shhhhhh. (“OH NOT AGAIN”)
M: You’re hot, Holli. You better stay in. (“HUH”)
Y: No. No. No.
M: Yes. Yes.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS TO CRY AGAIN.)
T: (to Megan, giving her something to play with) Don’t put it in your mouth now. I’m going to watch you. (“SHE DID IT”)
Q: She already did it.
T: Megan. (“SPOIL”) Get it out of your mouth. (“OH THAT’S GONNA HURT” “OH GOD”)
Q: Oh God. (“THAT WOULD BE TERRIBLE”) You don’t need to go back to a hospital.
M: I can’t run no more. (“SHHHHHH” “HAAH” “OH” “YOU CAN COME IN THERE”)
B: When is Steve getting back?
T: Not soon enough. (“NEVER SEEN SOME FALL OFF”)
Q: What about Halloween? Has anything ever happened on Halloween? (“YES” “THOSE”) That’s a time of the year when things especially seem to happen.
B: We thought it would but it didn’t happen. (“BUT THEN”) The first year after we thought it would.
Q: (to entity) You should just come here so I can ask you (“WHAT CAN YOU DO”) about the things that have happened. He probably wouldn’t say, though. (“OOH”)
M: We’ve tried to ask him things. (“I THINK”)
Q: You said people come to visit him to converse with him.
M: Yeah.
Q: So he does have long conversations sometimes. (“UM-HUH YEAH” “I JUST — IT’S HARD”)
M: We had an Ada newspaper box (“UM-HUH”) out there by the road. Didn’t you walk out there with me that day when we found this big old rat that somebody had cut the head off before putting its body in the mailbox?
B: Didn’t even put stamps on it.
M: (laughs)
Q: That’s probably what happened.
T: Another time they pulled it up and threw it in the ditch.
M: I think (“IT WAS YOU”) I know who must have done that.
Q: When this story hits the TV shows, you’re going to have a lot of problems like that. You really need, maybe, to have a publicist or someone.
M: Well, nothing else has bothered me so that won’t either.
Q: You never know what kind of crazies are out there. Just be careful.
M: I get as crazy as they are. (laughs)
Q: Yeah, but (“YOU KNOW”) sometimes its useful to make a lot of money for the kids’ security. (“WHERE DO YOU GET SECURE”) Oh gosh. (“WELL I GUESS YOU’VE GOT ONE”) One thing that’s good for you is that you live so faraway from —
T: I’ve got security. I live with security. I have my own security.
Q: Well, yeah. But who wants to put up with all that nonsense? So much nonsense. Like dead rats in newspaper boxes.
E: She dodoed.
K: Huh?
E: She dodoed.
K: Wait a minute — wait a minute — wait a minute —
E: Megan dodoed.
T: Were there markings on the wall?
K: Yes.
E: Nuh-uh.
T: She’ll never do that. I’ve never seen her do that.
Y: Pop. Grandpa.
E: One time I got water thrown all over me.
Q: Michael threw water on you? What were you doing that made him mad?
E: Nothing.
T: You’ve had a rough night, Jerry. Didn’t get enough sleep, did you?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WE AGAIN DISCUSS BILL’S CONDITION.)
Q: A lot of people who do that though don’t get punished. A lot of people get —
(“GET AWAY WITH MURDER”)
T: That’s true.
E: (at refrigerator spilling something) Yahhhhh.
Q: That’s right but when you think about it, like we all actually do it sometimes ([ECHO] S) — like, you know, O. J. and people like that. (“UM-HUH”)
E: Can I have any pop?
T: You’ll get it somewhere.
Q: Yeah. It’s like —
E: May I have any lemonade?
( . . . )
Q: That’s when it started? When Desireé was two?
T: When what started?
Q: How does that fit in with the timeline?
T: I think there’s a relationship. (“OH NO”)
Q: How old were you when you had Desireé?
T: Sixteen. (“SIXTEEN”)
Q: Very young.
T: Um-huh. (“SHE’S SEVEN AND-A-HALF” “THAT’S”)
Q: That’s quite a challenge to take on. (“RIGHT”)
T: Oh, I’m telling you.
Q: That’s good but you couldn’t even consider abortion?
T: No, I wouldn’t.
Q: Right, no, I applaud you, listen. (“RIGHT” “WOULD HAVE ADOPTED”) Did you ever think about putting the baby up for adoption?
T: Uh-uh.
Q: That’s fine. You had a very supportive family.
T: A very non-prejudiced family.
Q: I think that (“YOU KNOW”) adoption is always an alternative to abortion.
T: Yeah, that’s true.
Q: People just don’t consider that. (“YEAH THAT’S RIGHT”) Those babies get good homes. Those people who want the children take care of them. Sometimes when these young girls have babies who don’t have a good family like you I think it would be best for everyone concerned if the baby was put up for adoption.
T: Yeah.
Q: It’s different with you because you had a supportive family. (“SINCE YOU KNOW”) It’s very important to trying to be clear on this so you met Desireé’s father in high school? How old were you when you met him? Twelve? (“OBVIOUSLY”) Or maybe you just went to school together all your life, probably.
T: I met him when I was almost fifteen. (“BECAUSE”)
Q: The story that comes out of all this will be just as much about your life as it is about (“RIGHT”) the strange aspects. All the aspects — even the funny aspects are important. (“BLOOD”) Let me just make sure I have some of the correct details for an overview. What year were you born? I’m not good at math.
T: 1972. (“SEVENTY-TWO”)
Q: What’s your birthday?
T: March 16th. (“HERE”) What? (“WHO’S THAT”)
Q: Okay, and so (“YOU MAKE IT”) you gave birth at sixteen. (“DOUBLE CHECK” “DO NO”) Was he a supportive dad?
T: He still is.
Q: That’s good. (“WEIRD”)
T: She’s with him now.
R: (surprising me) Puogh!
M: You said you were going to tell him some stuff.
Q: Oh good.
M: So go ahead and tell him.
R: The same stuff happened to me that did to everybody else.
Q: What’s your relation to —
M: He’s my grandson. My oldest grand kid. (“IS THAT RIGHT”)
T: He’s my brother’s son.
