INTERVIEW / TELEPHONE INTERVIEW — TAPE #25, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
D: Justine Hempe, Dictaphone sales representative
L: Larry Garrison (friend)
Q: I’m speaking to my Dictaphone representative, Justine Hempe, who is one of the few people that I know who actually saw the special. So what did you think of the special?
D: I found it to be very interesting. It was interesting that they decided to put it to the test because in the past I’ve always been semi-interested in things of the paranormal. I have an open mind about it and I believe that it does occur. (“UM-HUH”) It was nice to see a ‘legitimate’ television newscast put it to the test and — (“THE CASE”)
Q: Did you notice that the Entity’s name was Michael?
D: Actually, I don’t recall that. (“YOU PROBABLY DIDN’T”)
Q: You started watching after it had already began.
D: Yeah, I did. (“DID”)
Q: Well, did any of the phenomena impress you that you saw?
D: I was impressed. I actually (“WANT”) left it believing that “yeah, that happened.” But, like I said, I’m not entirely skeptical about that.
Q: What do you think it is? (“SAFEWAY”) Do you think it’s an angel? A poltergeist? A spirit? An alien?
D: I would just have to say spirit.
Q: Spirit. (“YES”)
D: Because from what I’ve read about spirits they might at one moment kind of be an angel and one moment be (“RIGHT”) kind of a poltergeist. So I’d have to say spirit.
Q: Right.
D: With a changing face. (“PERHAPS”) Hopefully not.
Q: Well, you’re very open-minded. So, of course, my book is about it. I am the focus of that phenomena in Oklahoma. (“UM-HUH”)
D: Um-huh.
Q: So that’s what my book is about.
D: Oh, excellent. (“SO”) I’m looking forward to reading it.
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder as the song “How Deep Is Your Love?” plays on the radio) Do you hear what’s playing on the radio? Michael’s been playing this song a lot recently. And there are all kinds of parallels. The Paramount connection. The love connection. [2020 Update: Obviously not every song one hears is meaningful in a metaphysical way in regard to synchronicity; however, this song seems important to consider by everyone in a general way concerning letting 'God' work through oneself to help people in need or our planet ecologically.]
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEW IS WITH MY FRIEND LARRY GARRISON.)
Q: I’m speaking to Larry Garrison who I worked with at Paramount. I was the senior publicist staff writer and he was the junior publicist staff writer. Since then — well, what units have you done? I know you did “Fire in the Sky.” And you just did —
L: “Poltergeist: The Legacy” based on the films of the ’80s and “The Limbic Region” for MGM with Edward Olmos and George Dzundza.
Q: What’s the story line in one sentence.
L: “The Limbic Region”?
Q: Yeah.
L: An obsessive cop is pursuing a serial killer and ultimately brings about his own demise, I guess you could say.
Q: Okay. (“RICHER”)
L: A psychological cat-and-mouse thriller.
Q: Oh my goodness.
L: (laughs)
Q: So, of course, during that period when I came back from Oklahoma and had to deal with a lot of phenomena I’m sure you got some of the most memorable phone calls so what was your response to my calls? What were some of the good lines? If you can remember them — not word-for-word but just —
L: You mean as far as what you told me about your experiences? Well, I can definitely tell that you were completely overwhelmed by your experience at that point.
Q: Right.
L: You know, I think you were partly elated at everything you saw and partly terrorized by it. But, certainly, I had the sense that you were overwhelmed by it and were just trying to keep up with all the thoughts that you were having without having them overtake you.
Q: I was trying to make sense of it all, I think.
L: Right. Exactly. I mean I could imagine it must just have been a truly astonishing experience. And to get a handle on it and try to bring that back to normal life — obviously this is a very tall order. And you were definitely extremely stressed I could tell from your voice — very stressed out and really —
Q: You know me pretty well.
L: Yeah, I think so. And definitely your behavior was out of character. It had to be due to some quite extraordinary experience that you had.
Q: I think that some of my friends might have even thought that I was possessed. And I might have thought I was possessed. I mean angel-possessed not demon-possessed. I don’t believe there is a Devil.
L: Well, I don’t know if I would say you were possessed. Certainly, you were overtaken by all the thoughts and the feelings that you were having. Maybe your nervous system was just stimulated beyond the point of —
Q: (small laugh)
L: — you no longer being able to (small laugh) — (“TO”) to behave normally because you’d seen something very abnormal.
Q: Do you remember any lines?
L: I don’t know if I specifically remember exactly what you said but I remember you told me a lot of things about the character —
Q: You can be honest.
L: No, I’m just trying to think. I don’t remember exactly. I know you were telling me a lot of things that Michael the entity had said to you and some of the things that he was doing —
Q: Oh no no no no no no — you mean that I heard on the tapes because He never spoke to me. He never said anything to me. I mean it’s not like voices in my head.
L: It was stuff that you tape-recorded, right?
Q: Right. (“SOUNDS LIKE”)
L: You know — whatever was being made in the house at the time.
Q: Because, then, it would be a lot easier if He did talk to me. (“BUT”) Like He does to the family in Oklahoma.
L: Did you take some pictures or anything?
Q: Yeah. (“YEAH” “REMEM”) You never came by to see them.
L: Yeah, you’d mentioned them.
Q: I think you didn’t want to see them.
L: I was a little nervous about it, (small laugh) actually. I wanted to wait until you calmed down and see when — (“CAUSE”) I thought as high strung as you were over it, if it freaked me out then, well, we’ll both go out —
Q: The funny thing is I do remember talking to you about immediately drawing a parallel between my fainting, Allison’s fainting and the one time that you fainted when you took the drug in Amsterdam.
L: Right. But (“ME”) I’m not sure I would draw a parallel to all those experiences necessarily.
Q: Did you hear today who had a fainting attack?
L: Michael Jackson.
Q: Yeah. Notice his name is Michael?
L: (laughs) Ooh, that is a little bizarre. So, yeah, I just remember it was quite an overwhelming thing for you and I thought you were probably going to write a real brilliant treatise about it because —
Q: Wait, I remember — weren’t you the one to whom I gave the line about “The Fly”?
L: I don’t know. What was it?
Q: Okay, (“OH”) well, I really could feel the psychic energy coming out of me so I really thought I was changing into an alien or something. (“HMM”)
L: No, you didn’t really share that with me.
Q: Maybe that was my brother Michael. But I know I did tell you the Jesus aspect.
L: Yeah. And I remember you were in the throws of a real frenzied writing —
Q: Well, I thought I had three weeks to transcribe Testament and if I didn’t finish it on time the world would come to an end. (“UH-HUH”)
L: Yeah. Boy, talk about your deadlines. (laughs) (“TALK ABOUT”) That’s a serious deadline.
Q: Right. Exactly. (“SO”)
L: But, you know, I think as you’ve calmed down from the experience (“UM-HUH”) and maybe put it in a better perspective, the work that you’re trying to accomplish has probably changed a little bit.
Q: Yeah. (“YOU KNOW”)
L: I still think what you’re going to write will be tremendous and very enlightening. (“IT”) Probably a benefit to a lot of people. Particularly people who’ve had similar experiences.
Q: Well, I was maybe trying to draw all these parallels. I’m not quite doing it so (“YOU’RE WICK”) recklessly as I was.
L: Well, back then, everything was just pouring out of you so fast it was all you could do to keep up with it.
Q: I really should apologize for calling you and asking you about your father (“IF THAT IF HIS SICK”) if his illness was undiagnosed because this is scary for someone to do.
L: Yeah.
Q: When you’re dealing with the unknown.
L: Well, it’s alright. (“HOW”)
Q: How is he now?
L: He’s doing better, you know. I think his condition is pretty stable.
Q: What cancer did you say it was?
L: It’s a very rare form. I actually forget what it’s called. I should probably find out but —
Q: Do you remember in the publicity department at Paramount it seemed like the department had more than its share of sicknesses. Like Diana had MS and John Brogna had cancer of the liver. Mardi Marans had a brain tumor. Various other people had cancer. (“YOU KNOW”) Not lethal cancers but —
L: I think a lot of people there worked under a lot of stress for many years.
Q: Right.
L: And I think stress is very dehabilitating. I think they’ve pretty much proven that a high level of stress will weaken your immune system and make you susceptible to a lot of illnesses and in this day and age it’s probably —
Q: Do you remember how Allison was always misplacing her keys?
L: No, not really.
Q: You don’t. Well, you — (“UH-HUH”) you weren’t as close to Allison as I was.
L: Stress can make you forgetful. It can do a lot of damaging things. I think most of those people don’t realize how much stress they’re really under.
Q: Right. (“RIGHT” “UH-HUH”)
L: It’s not until they get sick that —
Q: Remember also Carol Sewell giving birth to her baby three months premature?
L: Oh yeah.
Q: Well, that’s really weird. (“UH-HUH”)
L: Yeah, that’s a bad thing. (“WELL THAT”)
Q: Well, that’s not bad — I mean (“BECAUSE OF IT”) you know — (“SHHHHHH”) the baby is fine.
L: That’s pretty rare, isn’t it? For a baby born three months premature to even survive?
Q: With the eyes open.
L: Or just at all. How much did it weigh when it was born?
Q: I don’t remember exactly. But I know that her bill was over a million (“UH-HUH”) dollars.
L: Oh my God. (“PLEASE”)
Q: In comparison, my bill when I (“DAMN”) went away to the mental institution for five days was like $5,000 and Blue Cross isn’t paying it. (small laugh)
L: They’re not?
Q: No.
L: How come?
Q: Even though it wasn’t my idea. It was my friends’. That’s what I’m trying to find out because I know that there was a review process so it wasn’t as if they had a policy in place from the very start. They’ve never given me anything in writing. (“SO I”)
L: I think it’s common, isn’t it? For a lot of insurance policies to cover —
Q: Well, there’s a lot of skullduggery going on. (“UH-HUH”) Because they’re not being honest. The way this whole thing has been handled — there’s a lot going on behind the scenes. (“THAT”)
L: Which is no great surprise when you’re dealing with insurance companies. Their whole game plan is basically to cheat people out of money. (laughs)
Q: Right. The whole thing is set up for that very reason, probably. (“RIGHT”) Well, anyway, I did tape (“YOU KNOW IF YOU”) my conversation with my insurance agent. Now that I’m remembering back, I recall them going through a long review process so it isn’t something that was standard to deny it. It wasn’t something they did automatically, which is what my insurance agent had the gall to say. (“YEAH”) He said that they only pay a limited amount for these types of things but then there wouldn’t have been such a long, intense review process. So something definitely is going on.
L: Well, I hope you’re able to get to the bottom of it. It just irks me that people pay good money for their insurance and then when they need benefits they’re not provided. You know, what’s the point? (“YEAH”)
Q: So do you have any questions or anything?
L: No. Not really. Not at this point. (“OKAY”) I’m just anxious to see your book when you’re finished with it because it’s going to be great.
Q: I think everyone is. It’s like everyone can’t wait.
L: (laughs) It’s nice, isn’t it? Working on a project where there’s a lot of anticipation.
Q: Well, it’s definitely going to have a lot of humor in it. I think people are going to understand the humor. (“BUT”) My one concern is that only I will think it’s funny.
L: I think everyone who writes something they think is funny has that fear. A comic telling a joke thinks, “What if I’m (“YOU KNOW”) the only one in the room that thinks this is funny?” (“WELL”)
Q: And, by the way, this is going to sound sort of like I’m losing it again —
L: (small laugh)
Q: — but you remember my trunk that I keep all my press kits in?
L: Yeah.
Q: You remember it pretty vividly, don’t you? Because you looked at it pretty closely.
L: I’ve seen it several times, I believe.
Q: Guess what it might be. It might be an artifact because I measured it precisely. The Ark of the Covenant.
L: Well, I don’t think you have the actual Ark of the Covenant, if that’s what you mean.
Q: I’m just saying that the dimensions are exactly the same as in the book of Exodus and it’s possible. (“OH”)
L: Well, what’s interesting is this poltergeist movie that I’m working on — it deals with sepulchers. You know — chests. Much smaller than that one but five chests that, according to the story, contain the demonic souls that were captured by the Druid priests many centuries ago. And part of the story evolves — it’s like a Pandora’s box.
Q: I’ve had dreams (“BLOOD”) about Druids.
L: Really? (“YEAH”)
Q: Have you?
L: No. (laughs) Frankly, I didn’t even know what the Druids were. I knew they were some religious sect of priests or something like that but I didn’t have much knowledge about that.
Q: Have you had any Stonehenge dreams?
L: No.
Q: Any dreams?
L: I very, very rarely remember my dreams. It’s usually only when it’s a nightmare that wakes me up in the middle night that I remember.
Q: Like what? (“JUST”) What was the nightmare? (“YOU”)
L: Ummm — and not only necessarily like really terrible things but just, you know, let’s see. Maybe being in a car accident or (“YOU KNOW” ~) being pursued. Like the classic running on the beach scene.
Q: Okay. So nothing paranormal.
L: Yeah, nothing too weird. And it’s a rare occurrence when I have a nightmare. But I wish I could remember more dreams. It’s kind of like getting to watch a movie every night. (“BUT”) You know, I rarely do. (“DON’T LET ME”)
Q: And, by the way, I recently bought another antique and I’ll show it to you if you ever get to come by. It might be the original Declaration of Independence.
L: You’re kidding.
Q: No. I’m not. (“BUT”) And I took it to the Huntington Library. I took it to Butterfield & Butterfield. It’s like they won’t even consider the possibility. (“BUT”)
L: But that’s another story. Well, that’s pretty amazing then. Do you know how much money that would be worth if that was the original?
Q: Yeah. Um-huh.
L: Jeese. You could produce your own movie.
Q: I called up my photographer I usually work with to schedule a photography session for it but since I told him that he was the reincarnation of Merlin during my ‘overwhelmed’ period, it seems like his wife is sort of protecting him from me.
L: (laughs)
Q: So it will be interesting to see if I end up going to him or not.
L: Well, you know, anybody that has a truly revolutionary thought or idea is shunned by people (“YEAH”) because we live in the norm. We like things to be normal and customary. When something’s different, we by nature reject it so everyone who’s had a brilliant breakthrough in any aspect of life has been scorned.
Q: One other little thing I should share with you. This is going to sound a little paranoid but I think that the CIA is definitely following me.
L: Really?
Q: Yeah. I mean that’s okay. I don’t mind it. I mean they probably believe the phenomena more than my friends do.
L: (laughs) Well, you know what they say: “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.”
Q: Well, I’m not paranoid though. I just don’t know why they can’t be open about it. I mean I’d be glad to answer any questions that they have. (“YEAH”)
L: Do you know — you should have a chat with Frank. Remember my friend Frank? He went through a similar thing where he was having what he considered brilliant revelations but a lot of his paranoia (“UM-HUH”) — not that you have — but his was from his drug use. (“WELL”)
Q: Well, I’m not paranoid, though. I mean I hope they are following me. In fact, one of them I think’s cute. (“NO”)
L: Well, how do you know they’re following? What gives you the idea that they’re following?
Q: Okay, for example, I go to the gym at all these different times. There’s this one guy who’s always there at exactly the right time. And, anyway, it’s very involved but one time I took a sneaky route to the locker room and he almost jumped on top of me. [2020 Update: I don't know what was going on with the guy at the gym yet nothing else happened after that incident.]
L: Really?
Q: Yeah.
L: Well, what makes you think he’s in the CIA?
Q: I don’t — well, my phone. I hear the strange noises. I mean sometimes I hear Michael on the phone but these are like clicking noises and hang-ups and wrong numbers constantly. (“YEAH”) Once in a while I’ll see a state-of-the-art van or an old truck. (“WITH BLOOD”) This is a residential section and there are these huge trucks parked outside my condominium complex all the time. In fact, you know who would be a good person if — (“YOU KNOW”) you might talk to your father about this because I’d be glad if he has any question. I mean, Smiley’s People is one of my favorite books.
L: Oh, yeah. Yeah. (“NO”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I HAVEN’T READ THE BOOK BUT WAS MAKING A POINT.)
L: Well, I’ll broach the question with him.
Q: I mean if he did work with UFOS, he might have some questions for me.
L: Yeah, I’ll see. I’ll ask him. You know he’s never been one to talk much. But, at this point, it probably wouldn’t hurt to ask him a few questions and see if in fact there’s somebody interested in what you’re doing and wants to find out about it — it would be well in the realm of possibilities something like that could be going on.
Q: I remember working on “Fire in the Sky” with you — I mean I talked to all these UFO experts.
L: Yeah, you never know. (“YEAH”) I’ve always said, “I know enough to know that I don’t know anything, (laughs) basically.” I don’t reject anything out of hand.
Q: Well, I had a missing time experience in Oklahoma. I mean that’s why I have hundreds of pages transcribed of interviews done in a two and a half day period. Single-spaced.
L: That was amazing. That was truly a prodigious output (“YOU KNOW”) and you had to be possessed by an incredible — (“PATH”)
Q: Oh Larry —
L: — source of energy.
Q: — you used the word ‘possessed.’
L: Yeah. And being possessed is not an altogether bad thing.
Q: I think I was possessed by the Holy Ghost or God because nothing bad happened. It wasn’t like the movie “The Exorcist.” (“YOU KNOW”) I mean only good things happened because of it. But I’m just scared what (“YOU KNOW”) other people will think. I mean there were some weird things going on in Alhambra. The guy in the bed next to me was howling like in “The Exorcist.” (“UH-HUH”)
L: (laughs)
Q: So I told him he was snoring. I woke him up and said, “You’re snoring.”
L: Yeah. Rather than say, “Excuse me, but you’re howling like a human coyote,” which might have upset him a little bit.
Q: Well, exactly. Because I think that (“YOU KNOW”) the Entity does work through people’s subconscious minds. So I don’t know if He does that through your mind or — well, He does because that time you told me about how the soul inside of us lives different life periods simultaneously. Remember when you said that?
L: Yeah. That’s one of my theories. (“WHICH I”) That could very well be. I’m not sure. It’s something I’ve thought about.
Q: Did you read about it somewhere?
L: No. It’s just kind of an idea that I had.
Q: See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. (“YEAH”)
L: But, you know, other people may have had the same thought or same idea. I’ve just never heard it expressed or seen it written before.
Q: If you think that’s true that must mean you believe in reincarnation.
L: Yeah — or not even necessarily reincarnation — (“OR JUST SOME”) maybe the idea that the soul exists forever. And that — yeah, I guess you could say maybe that’s reincarnation. It assumes another physical form, perhaps. Or it just exists in all phases of time and all time. For example, the soul is not necessarily going to come back at a later time. (“IT”) I’m living at a later time right now and I only become aware of it at a later date. It’s hard to explain.
Q: That one time that you did have — (“WINTHROP”) what was that drug you took in Amsterdam called?
L: Well, we took a delightful combination of drugs.
Q: Right. But there’s a word for it. (“AND”) Speedball or something?
L: Well, a lot of times if you do some heroin and then you smoke pot it takes the rough edges out of it but it can also kill you because if you do too much of it, it can really hamper your nervous system.
Q: Were you the only one who had an attack that night?
L: We were all doing it but I think I was doing a little bit more and my body’s very sensitive.
Q: And what happened when you had it? Did you see like a light or what was it?
L: No, I just became conscious that I was trying to cross my arms and I wasn’t sure why. But I just had the feeling that if I completed the crossing motion that I was going to die. And so I was really struggling to keep my arms from doing it. And then I realized I was trying to make the sign of the cross like we used to do in Catholic church. And that’s when I realized, “Uh-oh, I’m sort of knocking on heaven’s door at the moment.” And I just fought to live because I was thinking of my dad being sick and that this would be something that would have probably killed him so I just remember it being a real intense struggle to try to hold onto consciousness — to not slip into a coma or whatever else it might have been after that point. And it was just very, very fatiguing to keep struggling because it would come in waves. I would sort of (“KUNG”) get it together. Then, another wave would come.
Q: Did you feel like there was a spiritual being there with you? Or some presence? (“AHHHHHHH”)
L: Ummmmmm. Yeah, well I felt like there was an area that I was going to enter into. I didn’t really see a light. And I didn’t necessarily feel this warmth of God or anything like that, which made it just fine. (laughs)
Q: Well, why did you use the word warmth?
L: Well, when you think of God you think of a real warm, loving bright place. I didn’t feel any of that.
Q: I mean but I haven’t been telling you about warmth because in my book I talk a lot about the warmth I’ve been feeling.
L: Oh, well that’s — I think we just —
Q: But that isn’t something that I mentioned to you.
L: Yeah. Or just the fact that we identify warmth with love and caring and things like that.
Q: See, that’s — (“THAT THAT’S”) the Entity that is here in my condo with me — His name is Michael. He’s the Oklahoma Entity and I think He’s an angel. The archangel, probably, from the book of Revelation. And He’s a warmth that is around me. (“YEAH”)
Q: By the way, I remember you once told me you had an out-of-the-body experience.
L: Right.
Q: Quickly tell me about that.
L: I was in high school. It was around Thanksgiving. I was watching a play. Suddenly I just felt my whole body — what I thought was my whole body — rise up to the top of the auditorium. And I’m looking down over at everybody and probably hovered there for maybe five to ten seconds (“ONLY”) and then I just kind of slipped right back down. I had literally thought that by some freak phenomenon of nature my whole body had risen up. And I remember being very scared to look around because I thought mouths would be agape — everyone was going to be staring at me. Think of the (small laugh) — “This dude just rose up to the top. He’s possessed or something.” And then I looked around and nobody was staring at me and I thought, “Wow. Could it be that no one just saw me rise to the top of this auditorium?” (small laugh) It was really a strange feeling and that’s when I realized that my body hadn’t moved at all. It was just my soul or something that had just suddenly elevated out of my body for that short time. And it came right back down. I was just really surprised that no one was staring at me and had seen me do that. So it was a very weird experience. It’s the only time that it’s ever happened to me. And it hasn’t happened since.
Q: By the way, in one of my conversations with Marie, we were talking about you. And I mentioned that you had gone to school with another certain singer.
L: Garth Brooks?
Q: And, of course, I said, “Well, I think that (“THAT”) Larry is more talented —”
L: (laughs)
Q: “— than Garth Brooks.”
L: Well, thanks. I like to think so. (“RIGHT”)
Q: And Marie said, “I should hope so.” (“YEAH”)
L: Well, you know, Garth’s not bad. And he does what he does pretty well.
Q: But why do you think, though, that he’s a big success and you just haven’t been able to get anywhere with your music career?
L: Well, (“ZIG”) I think a lot of things — timing. Luck factors into just about everything we do. Things just have to fall into place. I think there are people who possess the same abilities and desire as others but chance and circumstance just don’t pan out for them as much. But also he was probably very focused and much more determined than I was.
Q: You seemed pretty determined to me. (“YEAH YEAH HE”) Your demo was pretty good too.
L: Yeah, I mean we did things. I mean, his manager even listened to our song. And I think maybe our sound wasn’t just quite up to snuff.
Q: No, I think it was. I think it was probably just not meant to be.
L: Yeah, it could just be that simple. It just wasn’t meant to be.
Q: Maybe it was some kind of lesson.
L: We got up there. We had our shot. We worked hard at it. We had people listen to it. Nothing really came of it. But, in his case, he must have done the right thing. He went to Nashville where his sound would be more well-received.
Q: But did you go to Nashville?
L: We never did. Maybe we should have. Looking back, maybe that would have been a better avenue for us than LA.
Q: Well, it’s funny because the original Bell Witch case happened just outside of Nashville.
L: Really?
Q: It was right on the banks of the Red River. And where I went in Oklahoma, the Red River is also in that area too.
L: Oh, yeah, that’s the border between Oklahoma and Texas. You were very close to it.
Q: Exactly. But I don’t know yet if the family is direct ancestors or not; or just (“YOU KNOW”) from the same basic family tree. But it’s interesting that the Red River — I guess it’s like the Red Sea. It’s almost (“YEAH”) like a parallel with the Red Sea.
L: Could be. Could be some correlation there. (“HMM”)
Q: The Red River. The Red Sea. (“THAT TIME YOU KNOW”) Wait, who was the one — remember, I was having all these impressions that all these people that I knew were actually reincarnations of famous people. Like I won’t say who they were — but Deborah Rosen I thought was the reincarnation of someone. And I thought Fiona was the reincarnation of someone. I mean it’s just interesting. What did you think when I said those things?
L: Well, I don’t know. (“IT’S SPACE”)
Q: Now, I think it’s more like they’re just close to their energy. They’re more like symbols. It’s almost like our life at Paramount — everything that happened at Paramount is a symbol or parallel to a biblical event. So it’s not like I’m the actual reincarnation; it’s more like I’m the contemporary symbol because I — (“FUCK YEAH”) let’s face it — the Christ story does seem to be more fairy tale than actuality.
L: Well, I happen to believe in it in a literal sense but (“IT”) it may have different meanings for different people. Maybe people derive from it what it is that they’re supposed to.
Q: Right. Metaphorically — I mean there are a lot of metaphors.
L: Certainly, there’s a lot of metaphor in the Bible. I mean it’s (“HMM”) riddled with it. So maybe the metaphor is the message for a lot of people.
Q: You know what? I think my tape ran out a while ago. Oh no it’s still going.
L: Oh, I forgot you were taping it.
Q: Yeah, but it’s funny because one of the really uncanny things about these interviews that I’ve been doing is that they always seem to end at a punctuation mark, which (“CA”) you can’t plan. (“YOU KNOW”) When an interview is going, you can’t much plan how an interview goes from A to B to C; much less how it will end.
L: Right.
Q: And sometimes the tape sides end on some sort of uncanny truth that really makes you wonder just how planned life can be.
L: Well, I fundamentally believe that everything affects everything. Every single occurrence that happens in the world affects something else and in a way, kind of like the “Star Wars” thing, there really is a force — an energy that people feed off of it and then in turn contribute to, negative and positive. There’s really just no such thing as an isolated accident or activity in the world. In some way, everything you do will have an effect on somebody or something else. Even if it’s not something that you can clearly see. (“I”) I do believe that it’s a ripple effect. And if you have that kind of philosophy, then you realize (“THAT THERE’S” “YOU KNOW”) everything matters. Everything you do every day in some sense matters. And the things that you think are the most significant may not be. The things that you think are the most insignificant may be the most important things. Not just to yourself but to other people. (“INNOCENT”) So I guess what it is I’m saying is there’s no such thing as trivial behavior or activities because they have an effect on something else of a much greater consequence.
Q: By the way, there’s this book called Messages from Michael and the woman in it who experienced the phenomenon was said also to be a publicist and her last name is Lansing. (“NO”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ACCORDING TO SHEPHERD HOODWIN’S SEPTEMBER 1996 MICHAEL NEWSLETTER, SARAH CHAMBERS, THE FIRST MICHAEL CHANNEL, WAS FICTIONALIZED AS ‘JESSICA LANSING’ IN THE YARBRO BOOKS.)
L: Wow. That’s pretty spooky. Well, her first name wasn’t Michael, was it? What was the book called?
Q: Messages from Michael. I mean there’s a whole series of books but it’s ironic the given last name is the same as Sherry Lansing’s. I think this woman’s living in San Francisco and is a publicist. (“YOU KNOW AND UM”) Anyway, the synchronicity, as you were talking about, seems to be pretty far-reaching.
L: Yeah, but then again also bear in mind that when you’re looking for similarities they’re much easier to find. You can find little correlations in a lot of things. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re telling you something. Sometimes they’re just coincidences. I mean you can say, “Well, Lansing and Paramount” but maybe her name might have been something else. There could be somebody else at Paramount with that name.
Q: Well, isn’t that the theme of the movie “Forrest Gump”? That life is a little bit planned and a little bit chance?
L: Absolutely. I think that’s pretty much it. We’re right down the middle, you know?
Q: Did you see the movie “Seven”?
L: Yeah. (“AND”) I wasn’t real impressed with it, actually. It was alright. (“WELL WILL”)
Q: Say it in a nutshell what the movie’s about.
L: Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman are detectives on the trail of a serial killer.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #25, SIDE #2 ENDS HERE.)
D: I found it to be very interesting. It was interesting that they decided to put it to the test because in the past I’ve always been semi-interested in things of the paranormal. I have an open mind about it and I believe that it does occur. (“UM-HUH”) It was nice to see a ‘legitimate’ television newscast put it to the test and — (“THE CASE”)
Q: Did you notice that the Entity’s name was Michael?
D: Actually, I don’t recall that. (“YOU PROBABLY DIDN’T”)
Q: You started watching after it had already began.
D: Yeah, I did. (“DID”)
Q: Well, did any of the phenomena impress you that you saw?
D: I was impressed. I actually (“WANT”) left it believing that “yeah, that happened.” But, like I said, I’m not entirely skeptical about that.
Q: What do you think it is? (“SAFEWAY”) Do you think it’s an angel? A poltergeist? A spirit? An alien?
D: I would just have to say spirit.
Q: Spirit. (“YES”)
D: Because from what I’ve read about spirits they might at one moment kind of be an angel and one moment be (“RIGHT”) kind of a poltergeist. So I’d have to say spirit.
Q: Right.
D: With a changing face. (“PERHAPS”) Hopefully not.
Q: Well, you’re very open-minded. So, of course, my book is about it. I am the focus of that phenomena in Oklahoma. (“UM-HUH”)
D: Um-huh.
Q: So that’s what my book is about.
D: Oh, excellent. (“SO”) I’m looking forward to reading it.
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder as the song “How Deep Is Your Love?” plays on the radio) Do you hear what’s playing on the radio? Michael’s been playing this song a lot recently. And there are all kinds of parallels. The Paramount connection. The love connection. [2020 Update: Obviously not every song one hears is meaningful in a metaphysical way in regard to synchronicity; however, this song seems important to consider by everyone in a general way concerning letting 'God' work through oneself to help people in need or our planet ecologically.]
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING INTERVIEW IS WITH MY FRIEND LARRY GARRISON.)
Q: I’m speaking to Larry Garrison who I worked with at Paramount. I was the senior publicist staff writer and he was the junior publicist staff writer. Since then — well, what units have you done? I know you did “Fire in the Sky.” And you just did —
L: “Poltergeist: The Legacy” based on the films of the ’80s and “The Limbic Region” for MGM with Edward Olmos and George Dzundza.
Q: What’s the story line in one sentence.
L: “The Limbic Region”?
Q: Yeah.
L: An obsessive cop is pursuing a serial killer and ultimately brings about his own demise, I guess you could say.
Q: Okay. (“RICHER”)
L: A psychological cat-and-mouse thriller.
Q: Oh my goodness.
L: (laughs)
Q: So, of course, during that period when I came back from Oklahoma and had to deal with a lot of phenomena I’m sure you got some of the most memorable phone calls so what was your response to my calls? What were some of the good lines? If you can remember them — not word-for-word but just —
L: You mean as far as what you told me about your experiences? Well, I can definitely tell that you were completely overwhelmed by your experience at that point.
Q: Right.
L: You know, I think you were partly elated at everything you saw and partly terrorized by it. But, certainly, I had the sense that you were overwhelmed by it and were just trying to keep up with all the thoughts that you were having without having them overtake you.
Q: I was trying to make sense of it all, I think.
L: Right. Exactly. I mean I could imagine it must just have been a truly astonishing experience. And to get a handle on it and try to bring that back to normal life — obviously this is a very tall order. And you were definitely extremely stressed I could tell from your voice — very stressed out and really —
Q: You know me pretty well.
L: Yeah, I think so. And definitely your behavior was out of character. It had to be due to some quite extraordinary experience that you had.
Q: I think that some of my friends might have even thought that I was possessed. And I might have thought I was possessed. I mean angel-possessed not demon-possessed. I don’t believe there is a Devil.
L: Well, I don’t know if I would say you were possessed. Certainly, you were overtaken by all the thoughts and the feelings that you were having. Maybe your nervous system was just stimulated beyond the point of —
Q: (small laugh)
L: — you no longer being able to (small laugh) — (“TO”) to behave normally because you’d seen something very abnormal.
Q: Do you remember any lines?
L: I don’t know if I specifically remember exactly what you said but I remember you told me a lot of things about the character —
Q: You can be honest.
L: No, I’m just trying to think. I don’t remember exactly. I know you were telling me a lot of things that Michael the entity had said to you and some of the things that he was doing —
Q: Oh no no no no no no — you mean that I heard on the tapes because He never spoke to me. He never said anything to me. I mean it’s not like voices in my head.
L: It was stuff that you tape-recorded, right?
Q: Right. (“SOUNDS LIKE”)
L: You know — whatever was being made in the house at the time.
Q: Because, then, it would be a lot easier if He did talk to me. (“BUT”) Like He does to the family in Oklahoma.
L: Did you take some pictures or anything?
Q: Yeah. (“YEAH” “REMEM”) You never came by to see them.
L: Yeah, you’d mentioned them.
Q: I think you didn’t want to see them.
L: I was a little nervous about it, (small laugh) actually. I wanted to wait until you calmed down and see when — (“CAUSE”) I thought as high strung as you were over it, if it freaked me out then, well, we’ll both go out —
Q: The funny thing is I do remember talking to you about immediately drawing a parallel between my fainting, Allison’s fainting and the one time that you fainted when you took the drug in Amsterdam.
L: Right. But (“ME”) I’m not sure I would draw a parallel to all those experiences necessarily.
Q: Did you hear today who had a fainting attack?
L: Michael Jackson.
Q: Yeah. Notice his name is Michael?
L: (laughs) Ooh, that is a little bizarre. So, yeah, I just remember it was quite an overwhelming thing for you and I thought you were probably going to write a real brilliant treatise about it because —
Q: Wait, I remember — weren’t you the one to whom I gave the line about “The Fly”?
L: I don’t know. What was it?
Q: Okay, (“OH”) well, I really could feel the psychic energy coming out of me so I really thought I was changing into an alien or something. (“HMM”)
L: No, you didn’t really share that with me.
Q: Maybe that was my brother Michael. But I know I did tell you the Jesus aspect.
L: Yeah. And I remember you were in the throws of a real frenzied writing —
Q: Well, I thought I had three weeks to transcribe Testament and if I didn’t finish it on time the world would come to an end. (“UH-HUH”)
L: Yeah. Boy, talk about your deadlines. (laughs) (“TALK ABOUT”) That’s a serious deadline.
Q: Right. Exactly. (“SO”)
L: But, you know, I think as you’ve calmed down from the experience (“UM-HUH”) and maybe put it in a better perspective, the work that you’re trying to accomplish has probably changed a little bit.
Q: Yeah. (“YOU KNOW”)
L: I still think what you’re going to write will be tremendous and very enlightening. (“IT”) Probably a benefit to a lot of people. Particularly people who’ve had similar experiences.
Q: Well, I was maybe trying to draw all these parallels. I’m not quite doing it so (“YOU’RE WICK”) recklessly as I was.
L: Well, back then, everything was just pouring out of you so fast it was all you could do to keep up with it.
Q: I really should apologize for calling you and asking you about your father (“IF THAT IF HIS SICK”) if his illness was undiagnosed because this is scary for someone to do.
L: Yeah.
Q: When you’re dealing with the unknown.
L: Well, it’s alright. (“HOW”)
Q: How is he now?
L: He’s doing better, you know. I think his condition is pretty stable.
Q: What cancer did you say it was?
L: It’s a very rare form. I actually forget what it’s called. I should probably find out but —
Q: Do you remember in the publicity department at Paramount it seemed like the department had more than its share of sicknesses. Like Diana had MS and John Brogna had cancer of the liver. Mardi Marans had a brain tumor. Various other people had cancer. (“YOU KNOW”) Not lethal cancers but —
L: I think a lot of people there worked under a lot of stress for many years.
Q: Right.
L: And I think stress is very dehabilitating. I think they’ve pretty much proven that a high level of stress will weaken your immune system and make you susceptible to a lot of illnesses and in this day and age it’s probably —
Q: Do you remember how Allison was always misplacing her keys?
L: No, not really.
Q: You don’t. Well, you — (“UH-HUH”) you weren’t as close to Allison as I was.
L: Stress can make you forgetful. It can do a lot of damaging things. I think most of those people don’t realize how much stress they’re really under.
Q: Right. (“RIGHT” “UH-HUH”)
L: It’s not until they get sick that —
Q: Remember also Carol Sewell giving birth to her baby three months premature?
L: Oh yeah.
Q: Well, that’s really weird. (“UH-HUH”)
L: Yeah, that’s a bad thing. (“WELL THAT”)
Q: Well, that’s not bad — I mean (“BECAUSE OF IT”) you know — (“SHHHHHH”) the baby is fine.
L: That’s pretty rare, isn’t it? For a baby born three months premature to even survive?
Q: With the eyes open.
L: Or just at all. How much did it weigh when it was born?
Q: I don’t remember exactly. But I know that her bill was over a million (“UH-HUH”) dollars.
L: Oh my God. (“PLEASE”)
Q: In comparison, my bill when I (“DAMN”) went away to the mental institution for five days was like $5,000 and Blue Cross isn’t paying it. (small laugh)
L: They’re not?
Q: No.
L: How come?
Q: Even though it wasn’t my idea. It was my friends’. That’s what I’m trying to find out because I know that there was a review process so it wasn’t as if they had a policy in place from the very start. They’ve never given me anything in writing. (“SO I”)
L: I think it’s common, isn’t it? For a lot of insurance policies to cover —
Q: Well, there’s a lot of skullduggery going on. (“UH-HUH”) Because they’re not being honest. The way this whole thing has been handled — there’s a lot going on behind the scenes. (“THAT”)
L: Which is no great surprise when you’re dealing with insurance companies. Their whole game plan is basically to cheat people out of money. (laughs)
Q: Right. The whole thing is set up for that very reason, probably. (“RIGHT”) Well, anyway, I did tape (“YOU KNOW IF YOU”) my conversation with my insurance agent. Now that I’m remembering back, I recall them going through a long review process so it isn’t something that was standard to deny it. It wasn’t something they did automatically, which is what my insurance agent had the gall to say. (“YEAH”) He said that they only pay a limited amount for these types of things but then there wouldn’t have been such a long, intense review process. So something definitely is going on.
L: Well, I hope you’re able to get to the bottom of it. It just irks me that people pay good money for their insurance and then when they need benefits they’re not provided. You know, what’s the point? (“YEAH”)
Q: So do you have any questions or anything?
L: No. Not really. Not at this point. (“OKAY”) I’m just anxious to see your book when you’re finished with it because it’s going to be great.
Q: I think everyone is. It’s like everyone can’t wait.
L: (laughs) It’s nice, isn’t it? Working on a project where there’s a lot of anticipation.
Q: Well, it’s definitely going to have a lot of humor in it. I think people are going to understand the humor. (“BUT”) My one concern is that only I will think it’s funny.
L: I think everyone who writes something they think is funny has that fear. A comic telling a joke thinks, “What if I’m (“YOU KNOW”) the only one in the room that thinks this is funny?” (“WELL”)
Q: And, by the way, this is going to sound sort of like I’m losing it again —
L: (small laugh)
Q: — but you remember my trunk that I keep all my press kits in?
L: Yeah.
Q: You remember it pretty vividly, don’t you? Because you looked at it pretty closely.
L: I’ve seen it several times, I believe.
Q: Guess what it might be. It might be an artifact because I measured it precisely. The Ark of the Covenant.
L: Well, I don’t think you have the actual Ark of the Covenant, if that’s what you mean.
Q: I’m just saying that the dimensions are exactly the same as in the book of Exodus and it’s possible. (“OH”)
L: Well, what’s interesting is this poltergeist movie that I’m working on — it deals with sepulchers. You know — chests. Much smaller than that one but five chests that, according to the story, contain the demonic souls that were captured by the Druid priests many centuries ago. And part of the story evolves — it’s like a Pandora’s box.
Q: I’ve had dreams (“BLOOD”) about Druids.
L: Really? (“YEAH”)
Q: Have you?
L: No. (laughs) Frankly, I didn’t even know what the Druids were. I knew they were some religious sect of priests or something like that but I didn’t have much knowledge about that.
Q: Have you had any Stonehenge dreams?
L: No.
Q: Any dreams?
L: I very, very rarely remember my dreams. It’s usually only when it’s a nightmare that wakes me up in the middle night that I remember.
Q: Like what? (“JUST”) What was the nightmare? (“YOU”)
L: Ummm — and not only necessarily like really terrible things but just, you know, let’s see. Maybe being in a car accident or (“YOU KNOW” ~) being pursued. Like the classic running on the beach scene.
Q: Okay. So nothing paranormal.
L: Yeah, nothing too weird. And it’s a rare occurrence when I have a nightmare. But I wish I could remember more dreams. It’s kind of like getting to watch a movie every night. (“BUT”) You know, I rarely do. (“DON’T LET ME”)
Q: And, by the way, I recently bought another antique and I’ll show it to you if you ever get to come by. It might be the original Declaration of Independence.
L: You’re kidding.
Q: No. I’m not. (“BUT”) And I took it to the Huntington Library. I took it to Butterfield & Butterfield. It’s like they won’t even consider the possibility. (“BUT”)
L: But that’s another story. Well, that’s pretty amazing then. Do you know how much money that would be worth if that was the original?
Q: Yeah. Um-huh.
L: Jeese. You could produce your own movie.
Q: I called up my photographer I usually work with to schedule a photography session for it but since I told him that he was the reincarnation of Merlin during my ‘overwhelmed’ period, it seems like his wife is sort of protecting him from me.
L: (laughs)
Q: So it will be interesting to see if I end up going to him or not.
L: Well, you know, anybody that has a truly revolutionary thought or idea is shunned by people (“YEAH”) because we live in the norm. We like things to be normal and customary. When something’s different, we by nature reject it so everyone who’s had a brilliant breakthrough in any aspect of life has been scorned.
Q: One other little thing I should share with you. This is going to sound a little paranoid but I think that the CIA is definitely following me.
L: Really?
Q: Yeah. I mean that’s okay. I don’t mind it. I mean they probably believe the phenomena more than my friends do.
L: (laughs) Well, you know what they say: “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they’re not after you.”
Q: Well, I’m not paranoid though. I just don’t know why they can’t be open about it. I mean I’d be glad to answer any questions that they have. (“YEAH”)
L: Do you know — you should have a chat with Frank. Remember my friend Frank? He went through a similar thing where he was having what he considered brilliant revelations but a lot of his paranoia (“UM-HUH”) — not that you have — but his was from his drug use. (“WELL”)
Q: Well, I’m not paranoid, though. I mean I hope they are following me. In fact, one of them I think’s cute. (“NO”)
L: Well, how do you know they’re following? What gives you the idea that they’re following?
Q: Okay, for example, I go to the gym at all these different times. There’s this one guy who’s always there at exactly the right time. And, anyway, it’s very involved but one time I took a sneaky route to the locker room and he almost jumped on top of me. [2020 Update: I don't know what was going on with the guy at the gym yet nothing else happened after that incident.]
L: Really?
Q: Yeah.
L: Well, what makes you think he’s in the CIA?
Q: I don’t — well, my phone. I hear the strange noises. I mean sometimes I hear Michael on the phone but these are like clicking noises and hang-ups and wrong numbers constantly. (“YEAH”) Once in a while I’ll see a state-of-the-art van or an old truck. (“WITH BLOOD”) This is a residential section and there are these huge trucks parked outside my condominium complex all the time. In fact, you know who would be a good person if — (“YOU KNOW”) you might talk to your father about this because I’d be glad if he has any question. I mean, Smiley’s People is one of my favorite books.
L: Oh, yeah. Yeah. (“NO”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I HAVEN’T READ THE BOOK BUT WAS MAKING A POINT.)
L: Well, I’ll broach the question with him.
Q: I mean if he did work with UFOS, he might have some questions for me.
L: Yeah, I’ll see. I’ll ask him. You know he’s never been one to talk much. But, at this point, it probably wouldn’t hurt to ask him a few questions and see if in fact there’s somebody interested in what you’re doing and wants to find out about it — it would be well in the realm of possibilities something like that could be going on.
Q: I remember working on “Fire in the Sky” with you — I mean I talked to all these UFO experts.
L: Yeah, you never know. (“YEAH”) I’ve always said, “I know enough to know that I don’t know anything, (laughs) basically.” I don’t reject anything out of hand.
Q: Well, I had a missing time experience in Oklahoma. I mean that’s why I have hundreds of pages transcribed of interviews done in a two and a half day period. Single-spaced.
L: That was amazing. That was truly a prodigious output (“YOU KNOW”) and you had to be possessed by an incredible — (“PATH”)
Q: Oh Larry —
L: — source of energy.
Q: — you used the word ‘possessed.’
L: Yeah. And being possessed is not an altogether bad thing.
Q: I think I was possessed by the Holy Ghost or God because nothing bad happened. It wasn’t like the movie “The Exorcist.” (“YOU KNOW”) I mean only good things happened because of it. But I’m just scared what (“YOU KNOW”) other people will think. I mean there were some weird things going on in Alhambra. The guy in the bed next to me was howling like in “The Exorcist.” (“UH-HUH”)
L: (laughs)
Q: So I told him he was snoring. I woke him up and said, “You’re snoring.”
L: Yeah. Rather than say, “Excuse me, but you’re howling like a human coyote,” which might have upset him a little bit.
Q: Well, exactly. Because I think that (“YOU KNOW”) the Entity does work through people’s subconscious minds. So I don’t know if He does that through your mind or — well, He does because that time you told me about how the soul inside of us lives different life periods simultaneously. Remember when you said that?
L: Yeah. That’s one of my theories. (“WHICH I”) That could very well be. I’m not sure. It’s something I’ve thought about.
Q: Did you read about it somewhere?
L: No. It’s just kind of an idea that I had.
Q: See, that’s exactly what I’m talking about. (“YEAH”)
L: But, you know, other people may have had the same thought or same idea. I’ve just never heard it expressed or seen it written before.
Q: If you think that’s true that must mean you believe in reincarnation.
L: Yeah — or not even necessarily reincarnation — (“OR JUST SOME”) maybe the idea that the soul exists forever. And that — yeah, I guess you could say maybe that’s reincarnation. It assumes another physical form, perhaps. Or it just exists in all phases of time and all time. For example, the soul is not necessarily going to come back at a later time. (“IT”) I’m living at a later time right now and I only become aware of it at a later date. It’s hard to explain.
Q: That one time that you did have — (“WINTHROP”) what was that drug you took in Amsterdam called?
L: Well, we took a delightful combination of drugs.
Q: Right. But there’s a word for it. (“AND”) Speedball or something?
L: Well, a lot of times if you do some heroin and then you smoke pot it takes the rough edges out of it but it can also kill you because if you do too much of it, it can really hamper your nervous system.
Q: Were you the only one who had an attack that night?
L: We were all doing it but I think I was doing a little bit more and my body’s very sensitive.
Q: And what happened when you had it? Did you see like a light or what was it?
L: No, I just became conscious that I was trying to cross my arms and I wasn’t sure why. But I just had the feeling that if I completed the crossing motion that I was going to die. And so I was really struggling to keep my arms from doing it. And then I realized I was trying to make the sign of the cross like we used to do in Catholic church. And that’s when I realized, “Uh-oh, I’m sort of knocking on heaven’s door at the moment.” And I just fought to live because I was thinking of my dad being sick and that this would be something that would have probably killed him so I just remember it being a real intense struggle to try to hold onto consciousness — to not slip into a coma or whatever else it might have been after that point. And it was just very, very fatiguing to keep struggling because it would come in waves. I would sort of (“KUNG”) get it together. Then, another wave would come.
Q: Did you feel like there was a spiritual being there with you? Or some presence? (“AHHHHHHH”)
L: Ummmmmm. Yeah, well I felt like there was an area that I was going to enter into. I didn’t really see a light. And I didn’t necessarily feel this warmth of God or anything like that, which made it just fine. (laughs)
Q: Well, why did you use the word warmth?
L: Well, when you think of God you think of a real warm, loving bright place. I didn’t feel any of that.
Q: I mean but I haven’t been telling you about warmth because in my book I talk a lot about the warmth I’ve been feeling.
L: Oh, well that’s — I think we just —
Q: But that isn’t something that I mentioned to you.
L: Yeah. Or just the fact that we identify warmth with love and caring and things like that.
Q: See, that’s — (“THAT THAT’S”) the Entity that is here in my condo with me — His name is Michael. He’s the Oklahoma Entity and I think He’s an angel. The archangel, probably, from the book of Revelation. And He’s a warmth that is around me. (“YEAH”)
Q: By the way, I remember you once told me you had an out-of-the-body experience.
L: Right.
Q: Quickly tell me about that.
L: I was in high school. It was around Thanksgiving. I was watching a play. Suddenly I just felt my whole body — what I thought was my whole body — rise up to the top of the auditorium. And I’m looking down over at everybody and probably hovered there for maybe five to ten seconds (“ONLY”) and then I just kind of slipped right back down. I had literally thought that by some freak phenomenon of nature my whole body had risen up. And I remember being very scared to look around because I thought mouths would be agape — everyone was going to be staring at me. Think of the (small laugh) — “This dude just rose up to the top. He’s possessed or something.” And then I looked around and nobody was staring at me and I thought, “Wow. Could it be that no one just saw me rise to the top of this auditorium?” (small laugh) It was really a strange feeling and that’s when I realized that my body hadn’t moved at all. It was just my soul or something that had just suddenly elevated out of my body for that short time. And it came right back down. I was just really surprised that no one was staring at me and had seen me do that. So it was a very weird experience. It’s the only time that it’s ever happened to me. And it hasn’t happened since.
Q: By the way, in one of my conversations with Marie, we were talking about you. And I mentioned that you had gone to school with another certain singer.
L: Garth Brooks?
Q: And, of course, I said, “Well, I think that (“THAT”) Larry is more talented —”
L: (laughs)
Q: “— than Garth Brooks.”
L: Well, thanks. I like to think so. (“RIGHT”)
Q: And Marie said, “I should hope so.” (“YEAH”)
L: Well, you know, Garth’s not bad. And he does what he does pretty well.
Q: But why do you think, though, that he’s a big success and you just haven’t been able to get anywhere with your music career?
L: Well, (“ZIG”) I think a lot of things — timing. Luck factors into just about everything we do. Things just have to fall into place. I think there are people who possess the same abilities and desire as others but chance and circumstance just don’t pan out for them as much. But also he was probably very focused and much more determined than I was.
Q: You seemed pretty determined to me. (“YEAH YEAH HE”) Your demo was pretty good too.
L: Yeah, I mean we did things. I mean, his manager even listened to our song. And I think maybe our sound wasn’t just quite up to snuff.
Q: No, I think it was. I think it was probably just not meant to be.
L: Yeah, it could just be that simple. It just wasn’t meant to be.
Q: Maybe it was some kind of lesson.
L: We got up there. We had our shot. We worked hard at it. We had people listen to it. Nothing really came of it. But, in his case, he must have done the right thing. He went to Nashville where his sound would be more well-received.
Q: But did you go to Nashville?
L: We never did. Maybe we should have. Looking back, maybe that would have been a better avenue for us than LA.
Q: Well, it’s funny because the original Bell Witch case happened just outside of Nashville.
L: Really?
Q: It was right on the banks of the Red River. And where I went in Oklahoma, the Red River is also in that area too.
L: Oh, yeah, that’s the border between Oklahoma and Texas. You were very close to it.
Q: Exactly. But I don’t know yet if the family is direct ancestors or not; or just (“YOU KNOW”) from the same basic family tree. But it’s interesting that the Red River — I guess it’s like the Red Sea. It’s almost (“YEAH”) like a parallel with the Red Sea.
L: Could be. Could be some correlation there. (“HMM”)
Q: The Red River. The Red Sea. (“THAT TIME YOU KNOW”) Wait, who was the one — remember, I was having all these impressions that all these people that I knew were actually reincarnations of famous people. Like I won’t say who they were — but Deborah Rosen I thought was the reincarnation of someone. And I thought Fiona was the reincarnation of someone. I mean it’s just interesting. What did you think when I said those things?
L: Well, I don’t know. (“IT’S SPACE”)
Q: Now, I think it’s more like they’re just close to their energy. They’re more like symbols. It’s almost like our life at Paramount — everything that happened at Paramount is a symbol or parallel to a biblical event. So it’s not like I’m the actual reincarnation; it’s more like I’m the contemporary symbol because I — (“FUCK YEAH”) let’s face it — the Christ story does seem to be more fairy tale than actuality.
L: Well, I happen to believe in it in a literal sense but (“IT”) it may have different meanings for different people. Maybe people derive from it what it is that they’re supposed to.
Q: Right. Metaphorically — I mean there are a lot of metaphors.
L: Certainly, there’s a lot of metaphor in the Bible. I mean it’s (“HMM”) riddled with it. So maybe the metaphor is the message for a lot of people.
Q: You know what? I think my tape ran out a while ago. Oh no it’s still going.
L: Oh, I forgot you were taping it.
Q: Yeah, but it’s funny because one of the really uncanny things about these interviews that I’ve been doing is that they always seem to end at a punctuation mark, which (“CA”) you can’t plan. (“YOU KNOW”) When an interview is going, you can’t much plan how an interview goes from A to B to C; much less how it will end.
L: Right.
Q: And sometimes the tape sides end on some sort of uncanny truth that really makes you wonder just how planned life can be.
L: Well, I fundamentally believe that everything affects everything. Every single occurrence that happens in the world affects something else and in a way, kind of like the “Star Wars” thing, there really is a force — an energy that people feed off of it and then in turn contribute to, negative and positive. There’s really just no such thing as an isolated accident or activity in the world. In some way, everything you do will have an effect on somebody or something else. Even if it’s not something that you can clearly see. (“I”) I do believe that it’s a ripple effect. And if you have that kind of philosophy, then you realize (“THAT THERE’S” “YOU KNOW”) everything matters. Everything you do every day in some sense matters. And the things that you think are the most significant may not be. The things that you think are the most insignificant may be the most important things. Not just to yourself but to other people. (“INNOCENT”) So I guess what it is I’m saying is there’s no such thing as trivial behavior or activities because they have an effect on something else of a much greater consequence.
Q: By the way, there’s this book called Messages from Michael and the woman in it who experienced the phenomenon was said also to be a publicist and her last name is Lansing. (“NO”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ACCORDING TO SHEPHERD HOODWIN’S SEPTEMBER 1996 MICHAEL NEWSLETTER, SARAH CHAMBERS, THE FIRST MICHAEL CHANNEL, WAS FICTIONALIZED AS ‘JESSICA LANSING’ IN THE YARBRO BOOKS.)
L: Wow. That’s pretty spooky. Well, her first name wasn’t Michael, was it? What was the book called?
Q: Messages from Michael. I mean there’s a whole series of books but it’s ironic the given last name is the same as Sherry Lansing’s. I think this woman’s living in San Francisco and is a publicist. (“YOU KNOW AND UM”) Anyway, the synchronicity, as you were talking about, seems to be pretty far-reaching.
L: Yeah, but then again also bear in mind that when you’re looking for similarities they’re much easier to find. You can find little correlations in a lot of things. That doesn’t necessarily mean that they’re telling you something. Sometimes they’re just coincidences. I mean you can say, “Well, Lansing and Paramount” but maybe her name might have been something else. There could be somebody else at Paramount with that name.
Q: Well, isn’t that the theme of the movie “Forrest Gump”? That life is a little bit planned and a little bit chance?
L: Absolutely. I think that’s pretty much it. We’re right down the middle, you know?
Q: Did you see the movie “Seven”?
L: Yeah. (“AND”) I wasn’t real impressed with it, actually. It was alright. (“WELL WILL”)
Q: Say it in a nutshell what the movie’s about.
L: Brad Pitt and Morgan Freeman are detectives on the trail of a serial killer.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #25, SIDE #2 ENDS HERE.)
