TELEPHONE INTERVIEW — TAPE #21, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell
L: Ellen Russell (my mother in California)
I: Marie Todd (friend)
B: Bill Robinson, National Business Insurance Agency
A: Ted (friend)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE UNATTRIBUTED SOUND OF A HEARTBEAT CONTINUES TO BE HEARD, OVERLAPPING, ON THIS TAPE SIDE.)
Q: I’m speaking to my mother, Ellen.
L: Are you going to tape?
Q: Yeah, I’m taping it.
L: Oh.
Q: As always. But what was I going to ask you? (“OH”) So what did you think when I told you that my chest was the Ark of the Covenant?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: CONCLUDES ON THE TAPE HERE.)
Q: Do you think it’s possible?
L: No. I mean in your mind anything is possible. I mean who am I to say what it is? I don’t know what it is and to me it was a beautiful chest.
Q: Well, I have a call in to Sotheby’s. You know. So we’ll see about there. (“YOU KNOW”)
L: Mark, it was a lovely old chest. It had been (sighs) papered inside with —
Q: What about the dome? The domed top?
L: Well, most chests have tops. It’s a chest.
Q: Can I read you something? This is from a book called One Hundred Thousand Years of Man’s Unknown History by Robert Charroux.
L: Oh, like he’d know.
Q: There’s one chapter that is called “The Ark of the Covenant: an Electric Condenser?” And it says, “Even today, no one knows the exact nature of the phenomenon called electricity, though it is as old as the world which it may have engendered,” — (“I HOPE”) I hope — my listening device malfunctions sometimes so I hope it’s working.
L: Well, he’s wrong right there.
Q: Let me just read it first and then you can give me your comments.
L: Because everybody knows now — well, most intelligent people know where electricity comes from and how it’s created.
Q: Okay, well let me go ahead and just explain —
L: And how it —
Q: But I just started. That was the first line. (“YEAH HARDLY”) Just listen for a moment. I know that’s hard. ” — and Moses was able to harness it in the Ark of the Covenant. Maurice Denis-Papin believes that the Ark of the Covenant, which was said to contain the tables of the law, Aaron’s rod and a vase filled with manna, was some sort of electric chamber capable of producing powerful discharges, probably on the order of five to seven hundred volts. The twenty-fifth chapter of Exodus tells how the Lord gave Moses very specific instructions for building the Ark. “It was made of shittim wood and lined with gold inside and out (the exact principle of an electric condenser: two conductors separated by insulation), with a gold crown around it. The Ark remained in a dry region, where the natural magnetic field normally reaches five to six hundred volts per vertical meter. Perhaps it contained batteries similar to those that were found in the Bagdad Museum; the gold crown would then have served to charge the batteries or the condenser. The Ark was placed in the keeping of the Levites, who were the only ones allowed to touch it. They carried it by means of two wooden poles overlaid with gold, each one fitting into two of the gold rings attached to the corners, so conduction took place with a natural ground. The condenser (or battery) thus discharged without danger to the carriers. Insulated, the Ark sometimes had a fiery halo, and if anyone was rash enough to touch it then, he received a powerful jolt (electric shock) that was terrifying to the uninitiated. When David brought it to his palace from Abinadab’s house, a tragic accident occurred. The Ark was placed in a new oxcart driven by Abinadab’s son Uzzah. And when they came to Nachon’s floor threshing, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it, for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against —”
L: Okay. Alright.
Q: “— Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died —”
L: Well, wasn’t that nice?
Q: “— by the ark of God” (II Samuel 6: 6-7).”
L: Well, wasn’t that nice of God to smote him for doing nothing. First of all —
Q: “Was Uzzah killed by an electric shock?”
L: Well, don’t ask me. I wasn’t there and neither was the author.
Q: Let me just explain one more —
L: First of all —
Q: — thing and then you can talk.
L: Tell me where were they —
Q: One more thing. (“AND HOW”)
L: Alright.
Q: “It is not unreasonable to attribute superior knowledge to Moses. The Acts of the Apostles state that he was instructed in the wisdom of the Egyptians, which means he was given the education reserved for the sacerdotal classes, and that education covered a very broad range of scientific knowledge. In architecture, astronomy and medicine, particularly, the Egyptians could have vied with our modern scientists, and sometimes even surpassed them.”
L: Who —
Q: You have to remember that (“YOU KNOW”) the Egyptian empire was around a lot longer than the United States.
L: No kidding. That surprises me.
Q: I mean it’s like two hundred years against five thousand years. (“WELL I”)
L: Since he’s gone back a hundred thousand years, (“UH-HUH”) Mark, it doesn’t (sighs) — first of all, the only thing I really know is what I read in the Bible about the Ark and don’t — (“HEAT UP”) why doesn’t he talk about Solomon in there — (“ABOUT”) who built Solomon’s huge temple (“IN”) in which to house the Ark? Did he mention that at all?
Q: I don’t recall. I haven’t researched that.
L: Do you know who Solomon was?
Q: I wrote the press kit for the movie “Congo” but —
L: No, I’m talking about Solomon.
Q: Right.
L: From Israel. Solomon. The wisdom of Solomon. So Solomon, you know, of the one thousand or two thousand wives. You know, Solomon was the great whatever from the Bible. So during Solomon’s time he built this — it’s called Solomon’s Temple. And do you know why he put it there? (“WHO” “WISHED TO BUILD IT”) It was to house this Ark to hold the Ten Commandments.
Q: So how did it get it all the way over to L.A.?
L: Which?
Q: The Ark.
L: I don’t think it did. Do you know what the Ark today could be?
Q: What?
L: It’s like when you go to the market and they give you a plastic bag. That’s what the Ark today could be. It could be representative of that. A paper bag. (“MEANS SO MUCH”)
Q: Okay. Well, I just wanted to see what your reaction was because it’s fun to get people’s responses. By the way, are you going to watch that special tomorrow?
L: I’ll think about that. But, Mark, first of all —
Q: Let me turn off the tape recorder and then you can tell me.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MY MOTHER CALLS ME BACK A FEW MINUTES AFTER OUR FIRST CONVERSATION. THERE IS A BRIEF LISTENING DEVICE MALFUNCTION AFTER I GO TO MY UPSTAIRS PHONE.)
(“WELL WHO GOES THIS”)
L: . . . sounds like I’m in Asia again. No, but (“NO IT’S LIKE”) it’s not really important. I just wanted to say that we used to live in Pasadena and they built a new Church of the Nazarine and it was on Sierra Madre Boulevard. I’m sure you remember. You were still in high school at the time I believe. And when they built that — the Nazarines are very religious people — and they built it to specifications — inside where all the people sit. I don’t know what it’s called. But they built it in the dimensions in cubits to Solomon’s Temple. So if you want to know more about Solomon’s Temple and the Ark you should call the Church of the Nazarine in Pasadena. I’m sure they have a lot of very well-researched people there that could tell you. They’re very religious.
Q: I also sent a copy of that book about The House of Russell to the Mormon church. They have that names project and everything.
L: The Mormon church has the what? (“IT’S SOMETHING”)
Q: It’s called the Names Project. It’s too hard to describe but (“NO IT’S NOT FAIR”) my names are quite interesting with Russell and King in the mix.
L: Well, what does that have to do with AIDS?
Q: With what?
L: I thought you said AIDS? I thought you said it had (“RIGHT”) something to do with the AIDS?
Q: No.
L: What did you say?
Q: The Names Project. (“NO”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY FRIEND MARIE.)
Q: I just wanted to get your response. You know my trunk that I keep all my press kits in?
I: Right. In your living room.
Q: Guess what it is.
I: I don’t know.
Q: The Ark of the Covenant.
I: Oh my goodness.
Q: I mean you’ve seen it. You’re religious.
I: Did you know that when you bought it?
Q: Of course not. But I measured it and everything. I mean can you believe it? I mean you’ve seen it.
I: Yeah. How did you find that out?
Q: I measured it and everything. The thought just kind of occurred to me.
I: Wow.
Q: Yeah. So I’ve decided I’m going to keep all the money for myself. I’m just kidding. No, I’m going to probably give it all to charity. And I’m even going to ask Sotheby’s to maybe donate their money to charity too. Once they verify it and everything. So I have a call out to them now and I’ll let you know what happens. By the way, how was that movie you saw this weekend?
I: “Toy Story”? It’s hysterical. I like the funhouse too. The funhouse is in the old Hollywood Masonic Temple that’s next to the El Capitan Theatre. Well, have three live shows.
Q: The only question I have is do you think this movie was intended to sell toys?
I: No. I just think it’s about a lot of different types of characters and over time the Cowboy, the spaceman, the animals — it’s like a past/present/future toys thing. That’s how I interpret it, anyway.
Q: I guess there’s a little good and a little bad in everything, if you know what I mean.
I: Oh, yes, but the thing is there’s a little moral in the story about these two characters vying for positioning throughout the movie and then at the end they realized they have to save each other. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: My goodness. What a metaphor for our time.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY INSURANCE AGENT.)
Q: Hi, Bill.
B: Yes.
Q: I’m doing a book on my recent experiences. I want to include this information in it so I’m taping this. So now what did Blue Cross say?
B: You’re taping this conversation?
Q: Yeah.
B: I’m not prepared to have a discussion taped.
Q: I just have to get it straight for my own records in terms of how to respond to Blue Cross.
B: Well, there’s nothing to respond to. If you like, I’ll send you a written letter.
Q: Well, of course I’ll need verification. Blue Cross hasn’t given me any information at all.
B: Well, either that or maybe you weren’t listening.
Q: What do you mean? Listening? Because we have to send things in writing.
B: You’re asking — all I’m —
Q: Do you know how many employees there are at Blue Cross?
B: So what does that have to do with this?
Q: Every single one of them is telling me something different.
B: I don’t think so. Let me tell you how it is.
Q: Fine. I wish someone would.
B: The literature, the policies —
Q: All I know is that I have $1,000 deductible on my insurance.
B: Do you want me to explain this?
Q: Yes.
B: Okay. Yes, you have $1,000 deductible. Before you had this four-day hospitalization you had used up about $514 of your $1,000 deductible in other medical bills.
Q: Well, what were those?
B: I have no idea but you already had other bills already.
Q: That’s not true.
B: Don’t argue. It works against you otherwise.
Q: No, I’m just telling you — the ambulance, though, was part of the same place. That was their ambulance service that they sent. No one — I didn’t request the ambulance service. They did that, themselves.
B: Who’s they?
Q: CPC Alhambra.
B: The hospital. I don’t know the name of a hospital.
Q: Well, it’s CPC Alhambra.
B: Well, let me put it in a different way.
Q: Okay.
B: You have a $1,000 deductible.
Q: Right.
B: By the time Blue Cross processed the $6,000 bill from the hospital, they had already processed claims and approved and applied a $514 amount of services to your $1,000 deductible.
Q: Maybe that was for my therapy sessions because in order for me to get out of the hospital I had to be seeing a psychiatrist.
B: That could be it. That’s not germane to the issue at hand of the unpaid hospital bill. But when they received the hospital bill they had already approved and applied $514 of claims against your $1,000 deductible. You’d met half of your deductible already. Now there’s a $6,100 claim from the hospital which is kind of like over — like $1,537 a day or something in the hospital which itself is the crux of the problem. It’s an outrageous amount and your plan allows a maximum of $175 a day total paid benefits for being hospitalized for mental or nervous disorders. Their terminology not mine. As do all health plans do not have an open-ended (“YES”) payment.
Q: The gentleman who came to me that night, though — he took my Blue Cross card then. I didn’t even want to go. It was my friends’ idea. I mean I never would have agreed to go if I thought that I had to pay everything myself.
B: See, in my estimation and my perspective these kinds of facilities are a scam and there have been proven examples of it in any case. They have to know better and to know that no health plan has unlimited benefits for hospitalization for mental/nervous; rather they’re very limited benefits.
Q: Do you know that they were medicating me there too even though it was against my wishes? They were giving me a hallucinogenic drug?
B: That doesn’t sound appropriate but I’m not —
Q: I know.
B: — qualified to —
Q: That’s what I’m saying. I mean I could still be there in that state.
B: But they have to know better so that when they take someone in and verify coverage — because you have a Blue Cross card and they call to verify your coverage —
Q: Right. That’s what they did. They did that.
B: It’s convenient, perhaps, for them to say, “Oh, we verified your coverage but they have to know that if they’re charging $1,500 a day, which is what it works out to me — four days for $6,000. Then they have to know that no health plan in the world is going to pay half of that.
Q: I’m unemployed at the moment. So what can they do if I refuse to pay the bill which I definitely feel is not appropriate?
B: I agree it’s not appropriate. What can they do? I don’t know. I mean they —
Q: They can’t attach my wages.
B: They could take it to court — they could attach — well, there’s no wages to attach.
Q: Right.
B: So they can’t get blood out of a turnip and it seems foolish to hire a lawyer to defend you in something like this.
Q: I just think I’m going to ignore it and tell them to go fly a kite. You know what I do? My own rule of thumb is to treat everyone like Jesus because you can’t go wrong that way. You know?
B: Well, just treat everyone as you’d like to be treated. Period.
Q: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying.
B: But their claim went in and for some reason that I do not understand — but it doesn’t make a difference for me to try to — and to investigate it further. The $6,148 billed amount — Blue Cross seems to have taken a $1,474 adjustment to it and because they do have some contractual arrangement with the hospital apparently — and that’s the point I’m not clear on. But never — so that either way you don’t owe $1,474 of that $6,000 bill but they can only approve it and pay $700, which is four days times $175 a day, Blue Cross’s maximum benefit in that facility. Or any such facility like that.
Q: I mean what’s the use of having a deductible? I don’t understand it. I thought I was protected after that.
B: If you were in the hospital for cancer, serious auto accident or whatever in a regular medical hospital, it would pay and if it were a network hospital it’ll pay all of the daily room and board and all of the other costs in the hospital. You pay very little. Mental/nervous benefits are ones that are uniquely different and serious —
Q: You know, I’ve had Blue Cross for around fifteen years through my own policy and for approximately four years through the Motion Picture Health and Welfare plan. I only used it once during that entire time when I had an infected cyst on my neck and that was the only thing up until now.
B: That’s not a Blue Cross plan. It’s administered by Blue Cross. It’s an entertainment industry guild plan.
Q: I mean it’s different but what I’m still saying is the company was still Blue Cross.
B: Only because Blue Cross for that plan didn’t determine the benefits — they just process and pay the benefits. I do happen to know —
Q: I know but I’ve been paying and supporting Blue Cross all this time and then, finally, when I have a problem they don’t meet their end of the bargain.
B: That’s not the point. (“IT IS SO”)
Q: The point is I thought I was covered. I thought I was insured. But I’m not insured.
B: Well, you absolutely are but as I — I can assure —
Q: Well, no. Having a $1,000 deductible means to me I have $1,000 to pay and they pay the rest.
B: No, that’s never been the case.
Q: Well, what is the case?
B: Other than mental/nervous and drug and alcohol disorders, there’s a $1,000 deductible and the plans pays 80% of the next $10,000 in bills and you pay 20%.
Q: Well, see, they haven’t given me anything in writing. I just keep getting copies —
B: You have that in writing in the literature when I sold you the plan and you have that in —
Q: No, I mean I — I’m telling you (“PFFFT”) in the recent letters they don’t define anything. They just send me copies of their correspondence with CPC Alhambra and it says “Do not pay this bill” blah blah blah. I don’t read every — I mean that was an eighty-page booklet you gave me.
B: You’re jumping from one element of this problem to another element of this problem.
Q: No, the problem is the health care system in America. That’s the problem.
B: Well, I can’t address that tonight with you in this discussion.
Q: No, of course not. But I’m just saying (“OH JUST”) will you just do me one favor and tell them to please put everything in writing because I want to pass it on to my attorney.
B: I don’t expect to talk to Blue Cross again on this matter.
Q: Well, they have to then — well, fine. If I don’t get anything in writing I’m just — what can I do? I need something in writing.
B: You have an explanation in benefits —
Q: I need verification.
B: — that was sent to you — (“THAT SHIP”)
Q: Benefits? I haven’t had any benefits.
B: They pay —
Q: I want all my money back. That’s all. Isn’t that — (“THAT WILL BE AN INCONVENIENCE”) they can pay me back all the money I’ve been putting in to Blue Cross over the years and I’ll be glad to pay my bills.
B: The problem is with the hospital and how they treated you and how they misled you — (“THAT’S”)
Q: Exactly.
B: Not with Blue Cross.
Q: Well, that’s certainly criminal too if you ask me.
B: I’m sorry that you don’t remember when you got the plan that no, it doesn’t pay all of your bills 100% once you’ve gone past the deductible.
Q: Well, no, I don’t care about that. I just — what do you mean when I go past the deductible? (“YOU PAY”)
B: Once you pass the deductible of a thousand dollars, it pays 80% of the bills and you still pay 20%.
Q: So is that what under these circumstances I’m doing now? I’m paying 20% of everything over the $1,000 deductible?
B: No, because you don’t have (“AYAMHUH”) you — (sighs) (“UH-HUH”) everything you’ve sent —
Q: You can see why it’s confusing for me, can’t you? You can see why it is confusing for me?
B: There’s mental and nervous benefits and there’s everything else. Everything you —
Q: I didn’t ask to go where I went.
B: Well, that’s not Blue Cross’s fault.
Q: It’s not my fault either.
B: Well, blame your friends then.
Q: Yeah, but they’re not going to pay it.
B: Blue Cross — no health plan covers very much towards mental/nervous benefits —
Q: Well, then, the hospital should’ve known that before accepting me.
B: I agree and it’s their failure to clarify that: “We’ve verified your coverage but we don’t think Blue Cross will pay much of the bill. You’ll have to pay the rest.” They didn’t tell you that. And that’s a major problem on the hospital’s part in my mind.
Q: Well, I hope they like turnips.
B: But your plan would pay a great majority of any other medical bills. Mental/nervous or drug or alcohol abuse are the four —
Q: Do you have any other insurance companies other than Blue Cross? I really think that I don’t want to work with Blue Cross any more.
B: Well, with the episode you just had you won’t be able to get any other individual coverage on an application basis because it would cause you to be declined.
Q: Oh my goodness.
B: Group coverage wouldn’t be a problem but individual coverage would be.
Q: Wow. I didn’t realize that.
B: Being in a mental facility for four days, although it’s a short period of time and so recent would almost certainly disqualify you from being eligible for any other individual plan. And there’s no other individual plan that would pay any better benefits, whether it’s Blue Shield or John Alden or whatever you —
Q: So what is the amount that I’m supposed to pay? Do you know that?
B: Yes, I do, but other than having some serious negotiations with the hospital because they have no right to collect anywhere near the full amount from you and they got a $213 check from Blue Cross which is not much, admittedly, because they approved $700 and applied $486 of that $700 to the rest of your deductible and you now met this year’s $1,000 deductible. And they paid the balance of the $700, which is $213, so taking just that off the hospital’s bill and this almost-$1,500 amount that is an adjustment that’s apparently appropriate to take, your net balance owed is $4,445 of the $6,148 billed.
Q: What about the ambulance?
B: I doubt that’s in this billing but I have no idea.
Q: I mean, so I have to pay —
B: The ambulance was probably — was the ambulance —
Q: I have to pay the ambulance as well?
B: Did the ambulance have the hospital’s name on it or was it a private ambulance?
Q: It was a private ambulance but it was ordered by the hospital because my friends didn’t order it.
B: Then, it still could be part of this bill or it could be separate and I have no idea how to answer that question.
Q: Okay.
B: But I don’t suggest that it’s fair that the hospital expect you to pay even $4,445 given the circumstances that they misled you to believe that everything was going to be covered.
Q: Oh boy. Okay, well —
B: And, again, if you had a medical problem of illness or injury and were admitted to Cedars or UCLA Medical Center or whatever — not a mental problem — it would be covered far more completely than has been the case here. But it is because it’s a mental/nervous treatment that in hospitalization for that the benefit is as stated up front and back and all along the way. And any other such policy $175 a day versus this hospital trying to bill you over $1,500 a day. First off, I can’t imagine for the life of me how they could justify that cost level of services. I mean it’s clearly outrageous in my mind.
Q: Um-huh.
B: Most (“BUT MORSE”) beyond that it’s that they led you to believe it was all going to be covered.
Q: Right. They did. Yeah. I mean I thought I was going to a resort in Palm Springs. I wouldn’t have minded paying for that.
B: So there are some serious issues in how the hospital didn’t handle you correctly in admitting you and informing you of what charges were going to be yours. And they’ve been around for a while. I have to assume they have to know better. This is — you’re not the first patient —
Q: So what should I do?
B: Well, I’d first just call the hospital and lay this ball directly in their doorstep. Otherwise, you’ll have to find a pro bono attorney such as the Gay Community Services Center provides — who you talk to, to see if they want to take on a case to have an attorney contact the hospital and say, “Hey, back off.”
Q: Okay. Well, thank you very much for your patience. I know you must get a lot of these calls. Especially with HIV and everything.
B: Indeed. But as unfair as this situation looks, the unfairness is almost entirely on the part of the hospital and Blue Cross’s only unfairness is what they stated upfront in the literature on the policy is they don’t pay very much for mental/nervous disorders. Nor does any other plan. That may not be fair but they’ve said it all along.
Q: So the fault — I think the fault, maybe — well, I don’t know. All I know is that if you’re sick or you’re perceived as sick you have to be treated.
B: But mental/nervous —
Q: It’s not up to you.
B: Well, yeah, but mental/nervous disorders are much more subjective and are —
Q: Wait, one more question. I didn’t even sign my correct name on all of my documentation. Does that make a difference? I signed Mark Russell Bell which really isn’t my real name under the policy. Does that make a difference?
B: No. They processed the claim as under your policy which is issued under your —
Q: Yeah, but the name I signed was not the name on the policy.
B: Wait a minute. Hospital documents or something?
Q: Yeah.
B: It didn’t effect how much they paid on the claim.
Q: No, I know, but I’m just saying I signed a name that isn’t even on my Blue Cross card. On everything I signed upon admission I signed Mark Russell Bell.
B: Well, it may effect further whether the hospital will collect anything from you but it doesn’t effect that Blue Cross processed the claim and paid what little they were able — they were allowed — obligated to pay.
Q: Well, I hope the aliens enjoyed filming it all because at least somebody had a good time.
B: Okay, sir.
Q: Okay, bye.
B: Bye-bye.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY FRIEND TED WHO IS DESIGNATED AS ‘A.’)
Q: I’m calling you because I wanted you to repeat that story you mentioned at dinner about seeing your brother.
A: Of seeing my brother in a dream?
Q: Yeah.
A: Okay. After my brother passed away — (“UM-HUH”) it was July 10th. May 24th was when he passed away. It was on July 10th in the early hours of the morning because when I got up I noticed it was around the same time when he passed away.
Q: Um-huh.
A: I dreamt that I saw him. He was smiling, looking at me and saying, “You know, I’m not really dead.” I just kind of like saw him standing with a little bit of haze or something but smiling and then telling me, “You know, I’m not really dead.” So, of course, I started to cry. I felt bad because I thought he was dead, you know? I said that he was dead when I was by his bed. I pronounced him dead in the sense that I said, “Oh, he’s gone.” So I was thinking, “Oh my God. I made a mistake.” And then he was smiling. And then he was saying, “You know, I’m really not dead at all.” He said, “I’m an angel.” And then he got onto this bicycle. He was smiling and he got on his bicycle and he just bicycled away. And I saw him going down cobbled streets or something like — it could be streets back in Malaysia or in America. It’s like a mixed sort of a thing, you know? And then I just burst out into tears. (“UM-HUH”) And he went away. So, basically, that was the first dream I had of him where I clearly saw him because during one or two other dreams I felt his presence but I couldn’t see him. You understand? I felt like he’s back.
Q: So are you sure this was a dream?
A: Yeah.
Q: You can visit some amazing places in your dreams.
A: I suppose but it was just a good sort of dream of him. (“BUT”)
Q: Since he died of AIDS, you must have been very upset. So did this help you in terms of dealing with his loss?
A: Well, yeah, it did. And I feel he’s in a better place. Of course, I miss him. I feel sad when I go places and think of him. When I go to L.A. I think of him and I reminisce.
Q: So he’s still with you in some ways?
A: Yeah, he’s still with me. He’ll always be with me. (“BUT”) But I miss him dearly because we are a close family and I kind of took care of him in a way. (“UM-HUH”) Since he came here, I was responsible for him in the initial stages. So I feel special in that sense. But the dream really helped a lot.
Q: So he was saying good-bye?
A: Yeah. Exactly. And it was a beautiful dream, though. (“AND I’LL”) On other occasions I have dreamt of him off and on but that first dream was very important because that was a dream where he said, “I’m an angel. I’m not really dead.”
Q: Right.
A: So that was really something amazing. And I remember the date was July 10th. May 24th was when he passed away so that’s quite some time before he came to me in my dream.
Q: Right.
A: So — (“WELL THERE’S NO”)
Q: Time doesn’t exist in that dimension.
A: Yeah. Exactly.
Q: Once somebody visited me in a dream before he passed away.
A: Oh, really?
Q: Yeah. Sam — Mike’s and my friend Sam.
Q: I’m speaking to my mother, Ellen.
L: Are you going to tape?
Q: Yeah, I’m taping it.
L: Oh.
Q: As always. But what was I going to ask you? (“OH”) So what did you think when I told you that my chest was the Ark of the Covenant?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: CONCLUDES ON THE TAPE HERE.)
Q: Do you think it’s possible?
L: No. I mean in your mind anything is possible. I mean who am I to say what it is? I don’t know what it is and to me it was a beautiful chest.
Q: Well, I have a call in to Sotheby’s. You know. So we’ll see about there. (“YOU KNOW”)
L: Mark, it was a lovely old chest. It had been (sighs) papered inside with —
Q: What about the dome? The domed top?
L: Well, most chests have tops. It’s a chest.
Q: Can I read you something? This is from a book called One Hundred Thousand Years of Man’s Unknown History by Robert Charroux.
L: Oh, like he’d know.
Q: There’s one chapter that is called “The Ark of the Covenant: an Electric Condenser?” And it says, “Even today, no one knows the exact nature of the phenomenon called electricity, though it is as old as the world which it may have engendered,” — (“I HOPE”) I hope — my listening device malfunctions sometimes so I hope it’s working.
L: Well, he’s wrong right there.
Q: Let me just read it first and then you can give me your comments.
L: Because everybody knows now — well, most intelligent people know where electricity comes from and how it’s created.
Q: Okay, well let me go ahead and just explain —
L: And how it —
Q: But I just started. That was the first line. (“YEAH HARDLY”) Just listen for a moment. I know that’s hard. ” — and Moses was able to harness it in the Ark of the Covenant. Maurice Denis-Papin believes that the Ark of the Covenant, which was said to contain the tables of the law, Aaron’s rod and a vase filled with manna, was some sort of electric chamber capable of producing powerful discharges, probably on the order of five to seven hundred volts. The twenty-fifth chapter of Exodus tells how the Lord gave Moses very specific instructions for building the Ark. “It was made of shittim wood and lined with gold inside and out (the exact principle of an electric condenser: two conductors separated by insulation), with a gold crown around it. The Ark remained in a dry region, where the natural magnetic field normally reaches five to six hundred volts per vertical meter. Perhaps it contained batteries similar to those that were found in the Bagdad Museum; the gold crown would then have served to charge the batteries or the condenser. The Ark was placed in the keeping of the Levites, who were the only ones allowed to touch it. They carried it by means of two wooden poles overlaid with gold, each one fitting into two of the gold rings attached to the corners, so conduction took place with a natural ground. The condenser (or battery) thus discharged without danger to the carriers. Insulated, the Ark sometimes had a fiery halo, and if anyone was rash enough to touch it then, he received a powerful jolt (electric shock) that was terrifying to the uninitiated. When David brought it to his palace from Abinadab’s house, a tragic accident occurred. The Ark was placed in a new oxcart driven by Abinadab’s son Uzzah. And when they came to Nachon’s floor threshing, Uzzah put forth his hand to the ark of God, and took hold of it, for the oxen shook it. And the anger of the Lord was kindled against —”
L: Okay. Alright.
Q: “— Uzzah; and God smote him there for his error; and there he died —”
L: Well, wasn’t that nice?
Q: “— by the ark of God” (II Samuel 6: 6-7).”
L: Well, wasn’t that nice of God to smote him for doing nothing. First of all —
Q: “Was Uzzah killed by an electric shock?”
L: Well, don’t ask me. I wasn’t there and neither was the author.
Q: Let me just explain one more —
L: First of all —
Q: — thing and then you can talk.
L: Tell me where were they —
Q: One more thing. (“AND HOW”)
L: Alright.
Q: “It is not unreasonable to attribute superior knowledge to Moses. The Acts of the Apostles state that he was instructed in the wisdom of the Egyptians, which means he was given the education reserved for the sacerdotal classes, and that education covered a very broad range of scientific knowledge. In architecture, astronomy and medicine, particularly, the Egyptians could have vied with our modern scientists, and sometimes even surpassed them.”
L: Who —
Q: You have to remember that (“YOU KNOW”) the Egyptian empire was around a lot longer than the United States.
L: No kidding. That surprises me.
Q: I mean it’s like two hundred years against five thousand years. (“WELL I”)
L: Since he’s gone back a hundred thousand years, (“UH-HUH”) Mark, it doesn’t (sighs) — first of all, the only thing I really know is what I read in the Bible about the Ark and don’t — (“HEAT UP”) why doesn’t he talk about Solomon in there — (“ABOUT”) who built Solomon’s huge temple (“IN”) in which to house the Ark? Did he mention that at all?
Q: I don’t recall. I haven’t researched that.
L: Do you know who Solomon was?
Q: I wrote the press kit for the movie “Congo” but —
L: No, I’m talking about Solomon.
Q: Right.
L: From Israel. Solomon. The wisdom of Solomon. So Solomon, you know, of the one thousand or two thousand wives. You know, Solomon was the great whatever from the Bible. So during Solomon’s time he built this — it’s called Solomon’s Temple. And do you know why he put it there? (“WHO” “WISHED TO BUILD IT”) It was to house this Ark to hold the Ten Commandments.
Q: So how did it get it all the way over to L.A.?
L: Which?
Q: The Ark.
L: I don’t think it did. Do you know what the Ark today could be?
Q: What?
L: It’s like when you go to the market and they give you a plastic bag. That’s what the Ark today could be. It could be representative of that. A paper bag. (“MEANS SO MUCH”)
Q: Okay. Well, I just wanted to see what your reaction was because it’s fun to get people’s responses. By the way, are you going to watch that special tomorrow?
L: I’ll think about that. But, Mark, first of all —
Q: Let me turn off the tape recorder and then you can tell me.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MY MOTHER CALLS ME BACK A FEW MINUTES AFTER OUR FIRST CONVERSATION. THERE IS A BRIEF LISTENING DEVICE MALFUNCTION AFTER I GO TO MY UPSTAIRS PHONE.)
(“WELL WHO GOES THIS”)
L: . . . sounds like I’m in Asia again. No, but (“NO IT’S LIKE”) it’s not really important. I just wanted to say that we used to live in Pasadena and they built a new Church of the Nazarine and it was on Sierra Madre Boulevard. I’m sure you remember. You were still in high school at the time I believe. And when they built that — the Nazarines are very religious people — and they built it to specifications — inside where all the people sit. I don’t know what it’s called. But they built it in the dimensions in cubits to Solomon’s Temple. So if you want to know more about Solomon’s Temple and the Ark you should call the Church of the Nazarine in Pasadena. I’m sure they have a lot of very well-researched people there that could tell you. They’re very religious.
Q: I also sent a copy of that book about The House of Russell to the Mormon church. They have that names project and everything.
L: The Mormon church has the what? (“IT’S SOMETHING”)
Q: It’s called the Names Project. It’s too hard to describe but (“NO IT’S NOT FAIR”) my names are quite interesting with Russell and King in the mix.
L: Well, what does that have to do with AIDS?
Q: With what?
L: I thought you said AIDS? I thought you said it had (“RIGHT”) something to do with the AIDS?
Q: No.
L: What did you say?
Q: The Names Project. (“NO”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY FRIEND MARIE.)
Q: I just wanted to get your response. You know my trunk that I keep all my press kits in?
I: Right. In your living room.
Q: Guess what it is.
I: I don’t know.
Q: The Ark of the Covenant.
I: Oh my goodness.
Q: I mean you’ve seen it. You’re religious.
I: Did you know that when you bought it?
Q: Of course not. But I measured it and everything. I mean can you believe it? I mean you’ve seen it.
I: Yeah. How did you find that out?
Q: I measured it and everything. The thought just kind of occurred to me.
I: Wow.
Q: Yeah. So I’ve decided I’m going to keep all the money for myself. I’m just kidding. No, I’m going to probably give it all to charity. And I’m even going to ask Sotheby’s to maybe donate their money to charity too. Once they verify it and everything. So I have a call out to them now and I’ll let you know what happens. By the way, how was that movie you saw this weekend?
I: “Toy Story”? It’s hysterical. I like the funhouse too. The funhouse is in the old Hollywood Masonic Temple that’s next to the El Capitan Theatre. Well, have three live shows.
Q: The only question I have is do you think this movie was intended to sell toys?
I: No. I just think it’s about a lot of different types of characters and over time the Cowboy, the spaceman, the animals — it’s like a past/present/future toys thing. That’s how I interpret it, anyway.
Q: I guess there’s a little good and a little bad in everything, if you know what I mean.
I: Oh, yes, but the thing is there’s a little moral in the story about these two characters vying for positioning throughout the movie and then at the end they realized they have to save each other. (“UH-HUH”)
Q: My goodness. What a metaphor for our time.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY INSURANCE AGENT.)
Q: Hi, Bill.
B: Yes.
Q: I’m doing a book on my recent experiences. I want to include this information in it so I’m taping this. So now what did Blue Cross say?
B: You’re taping this conversation?
Q: Yeah.
B: I’m not prepared to have a discussion taped.
Q: I just have to get it straight for my own records in terms of how to respond to Blue Cross.
B: Well, there’s nothing to respond to. If you like, I’ll send you a written letter.
Q: Well, of course I’ll need verification. Blue Cross hasn’t given me any information at all.
B: Well, either that or maybe you weren’t listening.
Q: What do you mean? Listening? Because we have to send things in writing.
B: You’re asking — all I’m —
Q: Do you know how many employees there are at Blue Cross?
B: So what does that have to do with this?
Q: Every single one of them is telling me something different.
B: I don’t think so. Let me tell you how it is.
Q: Fine. I wish someone would.
B: The literature, the policies —
Q: All I know is that I have $1,000 deductible on my insurance.
B: Do you want me to explain this?
Q: Yes.
B: Okay. Yes, you have $1,000 deductible. Before you had this four-day hospitalization you had used up about $514 of your $1,000 deductible in other medical bills.
Q: Well, what were those?
B: I have no idea but you already had other bills already.
Q: That’s not true.
B: Don’t argue. It works against you otherwise.
Q: No, I’m just telling you — the ambulance, though, was part of the same place. That was their ambulance service that they sent. No one — I didn’t request the ambulance service. They did that, themselves.
B: Who’s they?
Q: CPC Alhambra.
B: The hospital. I don’t know the name of a hospital.
Q: Well, it’s CPC Alhambra.
B: Well, let me put it in a different way.
Q: Okay.
B: You have a $1,000 deductible.
Q: Right.
B: By the time Blue Cross processed the $6,000 bill from the hospital, they had already processed claims and approved and applied a $514 amount of services to your $1,000 deductible.
Q: Maybe that was for my therapy sessions because in order for me to get out of the hospital I had to be seeing a psychiatrist.
B: That could be it. That’s not germane to the issue at hand of the unpaid hospital bill. But when they received the hospital bill they had already approved and applied $514 of claims against your $1,000 deductible. You’d met half of your deductible already. Now there’s a $6,100 claim from the hospital which is kind of like over — like $1,537 a day or something in the hospital which itself is the crux of the problem. It’s an outrageous amount and your plan allows a maximum of $175 a day total paid benefits for being hospitalized for mental or nervous disorders. Their terminology not mine. As do all health plans do not have an open-ended (“YES”) payment.
Q: The gentleman who came to me that night, though — he took my Blue Cross card then. I didn’t even want to go. It was my friends’ idea. I mean I never would have agreed to go if I thought that I had to pay everything myself.
B: See, in my estimation and my perspective these kinds of facilities are a scam and there have been proven examples of it in any case. They have to know better and to know that no health plan has unlimited benefits for hospitalization for mental/nervous; rather they’re very limited benefits.
Q: Do you know that they were medicating me there too even though it was against my wishes? They were giving me a hallucinogenic drug?
B: That doesn’t sound appropriate but I’m not —
Q: I know.
B: — qualified to —
Q: That’s what I’m saying. I mean I could still be there in that state.
B: But they have to know better so that when they take someone in and verify coverage — because you have a Blue Cross card and they call to verify your coverage —
Q: Right. That’s what they did. They did that.
B: It’s convenient, perhaps, for them to say, “Oh, we verified your coverage but they have to know that if they’re charging $1,500 a day, which is what it works out to me — four days for $6,000. Then they have to know that no health plan in the world is going to pay half of that.
Q: I’m unemployed at the moment. So what can they do if I refuse to pay the bill which I definitely feel is not appropriate?
B: I agree it’s not appropriate. What can they do? I don’t know. I mean they —
Q: They can’t attach my wages.
B: They could take it to court — they could attach — well, there’s no wages to attach.
Q: Right.
B: So they can’t get blood out of a turnip and it seems foolish to hire a lawyer to defend you in something like this.
Q: I just think I’m going to ignore it and tell them to go fly a kite. You know what I do? My own rule of thumb is to treat everyone like Jesus because you can’t go wrong that way. You know?
B: Well, just treat everyone as you’d like to be treated. Period.
Q: Exactly. That’s what I’m saying.
B: But their claim went in and for some reason that I do not understand — but it doesn’t make a difference for me to try to — and to investigate it further. The $6,148 billed amount — Blue Cross seems to have taken a $1,474 adjustment to it and because they do have some contractual arrangement with the hospital apparently — and that’s the point I’m not clear on. But never — so that either way you don’t owe $1,474 of that $6,000 bill but they can only approve it and pay $700, which is four days times $175 a day, Blue Cross’s maximum benefit in that facility. Or any such facility like that.
Q: I mean what’s the use of having a deductible? I don’t understand it. I thought I was protected after that.
B: If you were in the hospital for cancer, serious auto accident or whatever in a regular medical hospital, it would pay and if it were a network hospital it’ll pay all of the daily room and board and all of the other costs in the hospital. You pay very little. Mental/nervous benefits are ones that are uniquely different and serious —
Q: You know, I’ve had Blue Cross for around fifteen years through my own policy and for approximately four years through the Motion Picture Health and Welfare plan. I only used it once during that entire time when I had an infected cyst on my neck and that was the only thing up until now.
B: That’s not a Blue Cross plan. It’s administered by Blue Cross. It’s an entertainment industry guild plan.
Q: I mean it’s different but what I’m still saying is the company was still Blue Cross.
B: Only because Blue Cross for that plan didn’t determine the benefits — they just process and pay the benefits. I do happen to know —
Q: I know but I’ve been paying and supporting Blue Cross all this time and then, finally, when I have a problem they don’t meet their end of the bargain.
B: That’s not the point. (“IT IS SO”)
Q: The point is I thought I was covered. I thought I was insured. But I’m not insured.
B: Well, you absolutely are but as I — I can assure —
Q: Well, no. Having a $1,000 deductible means to me I have $1,000 to pay and they pay the rest.
B: No, that’s never been the case.
Q: Well, what is the case?
B: Other than mental/nervous and drug and alcohol disorders, there’s a $1,000 deductible and the plans pays 80% of the next $10,000 in bills and you pay 20%.
Q: Well, see, they haven’t given me anything in writing. I just keep getting copies —
B: You have that in writing in the literature when I sold you the plan and you have that in —
Q: No, I mean I — I’m telling you (“PFFFT”) in the recent letters they don’t define anything. They just send me copies of their correspondence with CPC Alhambra and it says “Do not pay this bill” blah blah blah. I don’t read every — I mean that was an eighty-page booklet you gave me.
B: You’re jumping from one element of this problem to another element of this problem.
Q: No, the problem is the health care system in America. That’s the problem.
B: Well, I can’t address that tonight with you in this discussion.
Q: No, of course not. But I’m just saying (“OH JUST”) will you just do me one favor and tell them to please put everything in writing because I want to pass it on to my attorney.
B: I don’t expect to talk to Blue Cross again on this matter.
Q: Well, they have to then — well, fine. If I don’t get anything in writing I’m just — what can I do? I need something in writing.
B: You have an explanation in benefits —
Q: I need verification.
B: — that was sent to you — (“THAT SHIP”)
Q: Benefits? I haven’t had any benefits.
B: They pay —
Q: I want all my money back. That’s all. Isn’t that — (“THAT WILL BE AN INCONVENIENCE”) they can pay me back all the money I’ve been putting in to Blue Cross over the years and I’ll be glad to pay my bills.
B: The problem is with the hospital and how they treated you and how they misled you — (“THAT’S”)
Q: Exactly.
B: Not with Blue Cross.
Q: Well, that’s certainly criminal too if you ask me.
B: I’m sorry that you don’t remember when you got the plan that no, it doesn’t pay all of your bills 100% once you’ve gone past the deductible.
Q: Well, no, I don’t care about that. I just — what do you mean when I go past the deductible? (“YOU PAY”)
B: Once you pass the deductible of a thousand dollars, it pays 80% of the bills and you still pay 20%.
Q: So is that what under these circumstances I’m doing now? I’m paying 20% of everything over the $1,000 deductible?
B: No, because you don’t have (“AYAMHUH”) you — (sighs) (“UH-HUH”) everything you’ve sent —
Q: You can see why it’s confusing for me, can’t you? You can see why it is confusing for me?
B: There’s mental and nervous benefits and there’s everything else. Everything you —
Q: I didn’t ask to go where I went.
B: Well, that’s not Blue Cross’s fault.
Q: It’s not my fault either.
B: Well, blame your friends then.
Q: Yeah, but they’re not going to pay it.
B: Blue Cross — no health plan covers very much towards mental/nervous benefits —
Q: Well, then, the hospital should’ve known that before accepting me.
B: I agree and it’s their failure to clarify that: “We’ve verified your coverage but we don’t think Blue Cross will pay much of the bill. You’ll have to pay the rest.” They didn’t tell you that. And that’s a major problem on the hospital’s part in my mind.
Q: Well, I hope they like turnips.
B: But your plan would pay a great majority of any other medical bills. Mental/nervous or drug or alcohol abuse are the four —
Q: Do you have any other insurance companies other than Blue Cross? I really think that I don’t want to work with Blue Cross any more.
B: Well, with the episode you just had you won’t be able to get any other individual coverage on an application basis because it would cause you to be declined.
Q: Oh my goodness.
B: Group coverage wouldn’t be a problem but individual coverage would be.
Q: Wow. I didn’t realize that.
B: Being in a mental facility for four days, although it’s a short period of time and so recent would almost certainly disqualify you from being eligible for any other individual plan. And there’s no other individual plan that would pay any better benefits, whether it’s Blue Shield or John Alden or whatever you —
Q: So what is the amount that I’m supposed to pay? Do you know that?
B: Yes, I do, but other than having some serious negotiations with the hospital because they have no right to collect anywhere near the full amount from you and they got a $213 check from Blue Cross which is not much, admittedly, because they approved $700 and applied $486 of that $700 to the rest of your deductible and you now met this year’s $1,000 deductible. And they paid the balance of the $700, which is $213, so taking just that off the hospital’s bill and this almost-$1,500 amount that is an adjustment that’s apparently appropriate to take, your net balance owed is $4,445 of the $6,148 billed.
Q: What about the ambulance?
B: I doubt that’s in this billing but I have no idea.
Q: I mean, so I have to pay —
B: The ambulance was probably — was the ambulance —
Q: I have to pay the ambulance as well?
B: Did the ambulance have the hospital’s name on it or was it a private ambulance?
Q: It was a private ambulance but it was ordered by the hospital because my friends didn’t order it.
B: Then, it still could be part of this bill or it could be separate and I have no idea how to answer that question.
Q: Okay.
B: But I don’t suggest that it’s fair that the hospital expect you to pay even $4,445 given the circumstances that they misled you to believe that everything was going to be covered.
Q: Oh boy. Okay, well —
B: And, again, if you had a medical problem of illness or injury and were admitted to Cedars or UCLA Medical Center or whatever — not a mental problem — it would be covered far more completely than has been the case here. But it is because it’s a mental/nervous treatment that in hospitalization for that the benefit is as stated up front and back and all along the way. And any other such policy $175 a day versus this hospital trying to bill you over $1,500 a day. First off, I can’t imagine for the life of me how they could justify that cost level of services. I mean it’s clearly outrageous in my mind.
Q: Um-huh.
B: Most (“BUT MORSE”) beyond that it’s that they led you to believe it was all going to be covered.
Q: Right. They did. Yeah. I mean I thought I was going to a resort in Palm Springs. I wouldn’t have minded paying for that.
B: So there are some serious issues in how the hospital didn’t handle you correctly in admitting you and informing you of what charges were going to be yours. And they’ve been around for a while. I have to assume they have to know better. This is — you’re not the first patient —
Q: So what should I do?
B: Well, I’d first just call the hospital and lay this ball directly in their doorstep. Otherwise, you’ll have to find a pro bono attorney such as the Gay Community Services Center provides — who you talk to, to see if they want to take on a case to have an attorney contact the hospital and say, “Hey, back off.”
Q: Okay. Well, thank you very much for your patience. I know you must get a lot of these calls. Especially with HIV and everything.
B: Indeed. But as unfair as this situation looks, the unfairness is almost entirely on the part of the hospital and Blue Cross’s only unfairness is what they stated upfront in the literature on the policy is they don’t pay very much for mental/nervous disorders. Nor does any other plan. That may not be fair but they’ve said it all along.
Q: So the fault — I think the fault, maybe — well, I don’t know. All I know is that if you’re sick or you’re perceived as sick you have to be treated.
B: But mental/nervous —
Q: It’s not up to you.
B: Well, yeah, but mental/nervous disorders are much more subjective and are —
Q: Wait, one more question. I didn’t even sign my correct name on all of my documentation. Does that make a difference? I signed Mark Russell Bell which really isn’t my real name under the policy. Does that make a difference?
B: No. They processed the claim as under your policy which is issued under your —
Q: Yeah, but the name I signed was not the name on the policy.
B: Wait a minute. Hospital documents or something?
Q: Yeah.
B: It didn’t effect how much they paid on the claim.
Q: No, I know, but I’m just saying I signed a name that isn’t even on my Blue Cross card. On everything I signed upon admission I signed Mark Russell Bell.
B: Well, it may effect further whether the hospital will collect anything from you but it doesn’t effect that Blue Cross processed the claim and paid what little they were able — they were allowed — obligated to pay.
Q: Well, I hope the aliens enjoyed filming it all because at least somebody had a good time.
B: Okay, sir.
Q: Okay, bye.
B: Bye-bye.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY FRIEND TED WHO IS DESIGNATED AS ‘A.’)
Q: I’m calling you because I wanted you to repeat that story you mentioned at dinner about seeing your brother.
A: Of seeing my brother in a dream?
Q: Yeah.
A: Okay. After my brother passed away — (“UM-HUH”) it was July 10th. May 24th was when he passed away. It was on July 10th in the early hours of the morning because when I got up I noticed it was around the same time when he passed away.
Q: Um-huh.
A: I dreamt that I saw him. He was smiling, looking at me and saying, “You know, I’m not really dead.” I just kind of like saw him standing with a little bit of haze or something but smiling and then telling me, “You know, I’m not really dead.” So, of course, I started to cry. I felt bad because I thought he was dead, you know? I said that he was dead when I was by his bed. I pronounced him dead in the sense that I said, “Oh, he’s gone.” So I was thinking, “Oh my God. I made a mistake.” And then he was smiling. And then he was saying, “You know, I’m really not dead at all.” He said, “I’m an angel.” And then he got onto this bicycle. He was smiling and he got on his bicycle and he just bicycled away. And I saw him going down cobbled streets or something like — it could be streets back in Malaysia or in America. It’s like a mixed sort of a thing, you know? And then I just burst out into tears. (“UM-HUH”) And he went away. So, basically, that was the first dream I had of him where I clearly saw him because during one or two other dreams I felt his presence but I couldn’t see him. You understand? I felt like he’s back.
Q: So are you sure this was a dream?
A: Yeah.
Q: You can visit some amazing places in your dreams.
A: I suppose but it was just a good sort of dream of him. (“BUT”)
Q: Since he died of AIDS, you must have been very upset. So did this help you in terms of dealing with his loss?
A: Well, yeah, it did. And I feel he’s in a better place. Of course, I miss him. I feel sad when I go places and think of him. When I go to L.A. I think of him and I reminisce.
Q: So he’s still with you in some ways?
A: Yeah, he’s still with me. He’ll always be with me. (“BUT”) But I miss him dearly because we are a close family and I kind of took care of him in a way. (“UM-HUH”) Since he came here, I was responsible for him in the initial stages. So I feel special in that sense. But the dream really helped a lot.
Q: So he was saying good-bye?
A: Yeah. Exactly. And it was a beautiful dream, though. (“AND I’LL”) On other occasions I have dreamt of him off and on but that first dream was very important because that was a dream where he said, “I’m an angel. I’m not really dead.”
Q: Right.
A: So that was really something amazing. And I remember the date was July 10th. May 24th was when he passed away so that’s quite some time before he came to me in my dream.
Q: Right.
A: So — (“WELL THERE’S NO”)
Q: Time doesn’t exist in that dimension.
A: Yeah. Exactly.
Q: Once somebody visited me in a dream before he passed away.
A: Oh, really?
Q: Yeah. Sam — Mike’s and my friend Sam.
