INTERVIEW — TAPE #2, SIDE #2
This is a detail from a family photo with several anomalous aspects, including a tripod-like formation behind the vehicle. Below is shown a photo of a bird gravel cryptogram.
Q: Mark Gordon Russell (interviewer)
M: Maxine Mc Wethy (the mother)
T: Twyla Eller (daughter)
K: Kim Carrell (daughter)
Y: Megan Eller (Twyla's daughter)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS SIDE BEGINS WITH TWYLA SPEAKING AND MEGAN CRYING IN THE BACKGROUND.)
T: They said, “This is a freelance writer.”
K: Megan, here’s your mama.
T: He came and he looked at everybody and said, “Well, they’re not crazy.” Later on they told us he was really a psychiatrist. His name was David. He was nice. He was from Stillwater, Oklahoma. They shouldn’t have even lied.
Q: It’s the cart pulling the horse. You don’t start off that way. They’re just desperate and in a frantic rush.
T: They shouldn’t have said he was a freelance writer. They should have said, “He’s curious. He wants to come and visit you.” (“UH-HUH”) Don’t lie. (“BUT THEY DON’T HAVE ENOUGH”)
Q: But they don’t have enough information to reach any fast conclusions. (“RUSH”) Unbelievable.
T: Back here it’s not like that. (“WHAT GOOD”)
Q: What good can come of bad? (“WHEN”) When it begins with this crazy rush to get poltergeist aspects? (“UH-HUH”) They’ll just imitate previous spook stories. That doesn’t do anybody any good. What is innately true will (“OP”) come out in the long term. How do you view life (“WHEN”) now that you know these things are possible?
T: I don’t know now.
Q: Do you think that there is — there was a Jesus?
T: Yeah.
Q: Are you sure that there was a Jesus?
T: Yeah. I was never one who believed in evolution.
Q: The alternative to evolution is divine beginning. (“WE — BUT” “I”) You can believe in both. There’s no reason why you can’t believe in a little bit of evolution. I personally think it’s a little bit of both. (“OOOHHH”)
T: You never know.
Q: What do you think about having children around here? You don’t live here but obviously there were children who lived here while this was going on. They never were in danger or —
T: No. I never felt like they were in danger. If anything, it was protecting them. It seemed like nothing ever hit them. I mean rocks could be flying a million (“YEAH”) at a time and they’d never get hit.
Q: Have you ever seen any aspects of your own personality in this other entity?
T: Yeah. A lot.
Q: That’s scary because one of the classic theories is a splinter of the consciousness (“UH-HUH”) of the teenager splinters off and creates a separate entity. Do you see that happening?
T: Yeah. They asked me, “Do you see yourself?” I said, “Yeah, because if anything ever happened to Michael I’d just die. Or if he ever went away. He’s always told us he didn’t want “Unsolved Mysteries” to come here because they’d suck him out of the attic. That’s exactly what he told us and we said, “We will not get ‘Unsolved Mysteries.’ We don’t even like them.”
Q: Well, “Encounters” will do the same thing. (“YEAH”) (laughs)
T: We didn’t care for them either.
Q: What about “Sightings”? The same thing?
T: Yeah.
Q: I can’t even tell them apart. Those shows are so contrived because they have to produce one every week. There’s another show now too. “The Unbelievable”? No. (“IT’S THAT”) The one hosted by that “L.A. Law” star? I remember. “The Extraordinary.”
T: There’s one called “The Other Side.”
Q: That talk show.
T: Well, it was the host of that show who came here. She’s a coordinator of “Put
It To The Test.”
Q: I only saw her once but I thought, “Oh my God, this woman has nothing upstairs at all.” (“IS SHE”) The guy who used to host “The Other Side” I thought had some credibility.
T: This Dana Fleming. She’s a very pretty woman.
Q: There have been so many people trying to use you for their own purposes.
T: They put so much pressure on me.
Q: It’s comic.
T: They wanted me to make Michael do something and I cannot make him do something unless he wants to do it.
Q: And this isn’t giving him any motivation, is it? The fact that they’re being pushy.
T: It pisses him off. It makes him mad when they treat me that way. And he would do stuff just to get them away from me.
Q: But he’ll do it in a way that doesn’t give them anything. Why should he give them any proof?
T: When he did something in front of the camera, the camera’s batteries (“UMM”) went dead. They left here as believers but they expected too much.
Q: They were probably believers to begin with or they wouldn’t have come out. The Bell Witch would always (“YOU KNOW I”) know right away if someone was a believer or didn’t believe.
T: Michael has told us several times, “I DON’T HAVE TO PROVE MYSELF TO ANYBODY.” (“THAT’S RIGHT” “HAND” “LIKE”)
Q: Just like Jesus Christ doesn’t have to prove himself to anybody either. So your quandary is sort of mankind’s quandary but in a much more focused situation in terms of dealing with what is unknowable. (“HAAH”) In terms of your religious background, you’re probably just like me. You’re sort of Christian but you don’t really practice any — (“ANY”)
T: Church of Christ. (“CAUSE IT’S”) And not the Church of Christ of Later Day Saints.
Q: There’s not a lot of rituals there, are there?
T: They’re pretty strict. There’s no musical instruments.
Q: No musical instruments?
T: They sing a cappella.
Q: That’s sort of bizarre. (“UM-HUH — UM-HUH” “WHAT”) What source of sin is there in musical instruments? (“I DON’T”) Does your whole family go to church? (“UH-OH”)
T: Yeah. It goes back to one of them Bible verses: “Sing and to make melody in your heart. Not make melody with musical instruments.” (“OH GOD”)
Q: There are also the Amish —
T: Did Mama tell you we’ve been more or less kicked out of church because of all this? Because they don’t believe in this stuff? (“IS IT”)
Q: Isn’t that ridiculous? They allow alcoholism and smoking and all those things. (laughs)
T: If you’ve seen a ghost (“KNEW IT”) they think you should be quiet about it. (“THAT’S LIKE”)
Q: They’re presuming that this proves evil as opposed to proving good. (“YOU KNOW”) I don’t get that. How can someone project evil into something? (“DON’T”) It just shows you how limited their scope is. (mock Southern evangelical dialect) Church of Christ! Do you go to church on Sundays?
T: We don’t go any more.
Q: After being kicked out.
T: More or less.
Q: See? Now that’s another important aspect of your story.
T: That’s not Christian.
Q: In your hour of biggest need your church abandons you because you have something that scares them.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I AM GLANCING THROUGH THE PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE TABLE.)
T: He was the main producer. Eric Schultz.
Q: He’s probably scarier than Michael. (laughs)
T: He’s so conceited. (“YEAH”)
Q: Oh, look. There’s the egg photo. Is that what happened to Eric?
T: No, that’s a friend.
Q: That’s funny.
T: There are people that still come out on a regular basis to talk to Michael. We can get some people up here right now if you want to talk to them.
Q: Oh, I would love to talk to him.
T: He talks to them like he talks to us. Like we’re talking. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Really? (“DITTO” “TONE OF VOICE”) But I don’t know if he would let me interview him.
T: If he got to know you I bet he would. He has to get to know you. And he’s already done stuff in front of you which surprises me because usually he don’t do it that quick. But he’s a good judge of character. (“UH-HUH” “HE CRIES LIKE”)
Q: It’s amazing. (“OOOHHH”) I don’t get it. It’s unfathomable. (“BUT YOU KNOW”) I don’t know if it’s that we’re not supposed to know what’s going on — (“OR IF THEY DON’T”) or maybe they don’t even know. Maybe they don’t know.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AT ONE POINT IN THE INTERVIEW MEGAN COMES OVER AND HITS ME.)
(“OWWWWWW”)
T: (to Megan) Don’t hit.
Q: That’s okay. Feels good.
T: If she hits you in the nose it won’t feel good. (small laugh)
Q: Well, It’s worth it, though. Isn’t it?
T: Yeah, they are.
Q: A cute little girl like this? Even though, unfortunately, our society isn’t structured in a way that permits many people to be good parents. You paint ceramic sculptures at home. That’s perfect for someone with kids.
T: I don’t want to leave her and it takes two incomes. (“UM-HUH”)
Q: You can teach her the values you want her to have. (“I — I”)
T: I can whup her butt when I need to whup her butt. And it needs to be whupped all the time.
Q: (small laugh) That would be considered abuse in our time. People are so screwed up.
T: I got my butt whupped when I was little. I turned out to be pretty good. Did you get spanked when you were little?
Q: Well, I didn’t mind that but my parents fought with one another. My father threw my mother against the floor and things like that.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A BREAK, WE BEGIN DISCUSSING BILL’S CONDITION AGAIN.)
T: He don’t want to eat. He don’t want to drink.
Q: They can’t.
T: I swear. I’ll show you. He drank.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS UNATTRIBUTED RECORDING INTERFERENCE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE. TWYLA SHOWS ME A LARGE GLASS.)
(“OKAY”)
T: Every ten minutes Mama would fill this up and he would drink it.
Q: There was an incident in the Bell case where somebody once saw a pitcher levitate, pour out, and the contents vanish into the air.
T: Maybe it’s not even going into him. (“OR IT COULD WORK”)
Q: Or it could be going out of his stomach.
T: He is dehydrated.
Q: They have the power to take it out of your stomach. (“UH-HUH”) If they have unlimited powers to do what they want there is nothing that they couldn’t do.
T: Maybe he’s being punished.
Q: It’s sort of obvious, isn’t it?
T: It’s like if God isn’t going to do it or hadn’t done it —
Q: Well, yeah, but a lot of people do bad things and never get punished. It’s just certain events can make it possible.
T: It’s like they just hate me though. (“WELL THAT’S JUST PART OF IT”)
Q: Well, that’s just part of what’s going on, isn’t it, though?
T: Yeah.
Q: Because if that was all it was, you wouldn’t feel, “Oh my God, why me?”
T: I do. I feel that way. You don’t know how many problems I have had from my husband. He’ll whup their ass if they talk bad about me now but do you know how many problems I’ve had with this? I’ve been threatened.
Q: Well, I have a feeling that eventually it will be over. (“IF THIS”) If this really is as similar to the Bell case as it has been so far, after Bill dies is when the main haunting ends. (“YOU” “OKAY”) The Bell spirit would say it’s main reason for being there was to kill the father. The bad father.
T: What did the bad father do?
Q: No one knows. Some people have conjectured that there was abuse going on.
T: Like molestation?
Q: Right. (“BUT”) No one knows. That might not even be true.
T: I feel more sane after all this has happened to me than I did before I even believed in ghosts and aliens. And I think people that don’t believe in this or who aren’t at least open-minded are the crazy ones. (“WELL”) Isn’t that crazy? I think you should at least be (“IT’S”) open-minded.
Q: It’s based on your experience. (“KEYS”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I NOTICE THAT THE CHILDREN HAVE SOME KEYS.)
Q: Are these keys of yours? You don’t want them to get lost.
T: Oh, they’re just playing with them. They don’t really go to anything. (“WHO KNOWS”)
Q: There are no easy answers and that’s what makes me so frustrated with a lot of these ‘psychic investigators’ who have already decided what is going on here. (“YEAH”) They’re just looking for evidence that will confirm what they want. (“WHO”) Some of the things that have happened don’t even involve you.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS RUNNING AROUND THE ROOM YELLING.)
Q: You can’t be causing what the other people are experiencing. I’s really quite convoluted.
T: You think you got it almost figured out and something blows your mind.
Q: If the phenomena was just happening in your presence it would be a relief. But it’s more than that.
T: It’s just more happens when I am here in this house.
Q: So you might be some kind of (“CAUSE YOU KNOW”) power source for it.
T: Yeah. (“AND — BUT IT — I DON’T THINK”)
Q: All I can say is that in all the accounts I’ve read it’s always weather-boarded houses, whatever that means. (“YOU ARE”) It’s usually a young girl and not a young boy.
T: That’s what (“THAT WAS”) Barry Taff says. (“CORRECT”) Usually girls at puberty. (“BUT GIRLS”) Girls who’ve suffered abuse.
Q: There have been older ones though too. (“CORRECT”)
T: They asked me if I get headaches a lot or feel sick. (“NO”)
Q: It might be drawing from you without you being aware of it. It could happen at night when you’re asleep.
T: Sometimes I would find rocks in my bed when I would wake up in the middle of the night as if something was with me. I would wake up (“WHOOPS”) and find rocks and gravel in my bed. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: Betsy Bell and the other children in her family had their hair almost pulled out of their heads.
T: That happened here. (“NO BUT”)
Q: It was virulent when it first started. Before that, they heard scratching like this.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I DEMONSTRATE THE SOUND HERE.)
(“YEAH”)
Q: Scratching noises all around the house. (“AND THEN”) Then, the hair pulling started. (“YOU — THERE WAS”) So, you said there was hair-pulling here too?
T: Yeah. A lot.
Q: Was this early (“NO”) or consistent?
T: Not real early. (“BUT” “UHHH”) At night it’s worse. Sometimes you don’t hear him and a day or a week will go by. Then, he’s just wild all day. It depends. It may depend on my belief.
Q: Really? Now that’s (“SEE THAT’S WHAT’S”) what needs to be gone into a little bit.
T: Like when I’m mad — (“I’M MAD”) when somebody makes me mad or hurts my feelings, then he’s hurt, he’s mad. (“SEE WHAT”)
Q: What I have to do — and it will be hard to work nonstop on this because it’s very grueling work (“BUT”) — is set up the various areas of the phenomena and then see how they relate. (“YES”) The main thing is just telling your story point out.
T: You wouldn’t have to use our exact names?
Q: What? (“TELL US”)
T: Tell our —
Q: Nothing. There are no rules. (“WHAT”)
T: Really? (“WHAT”)
Q: The first thing that we have to know is what the alternatives are.
T: With Steve being a police officer, you know? (“OH NO”) You understand? (“YEAH” “I READ”)
Q: The case that inspired The Exorcist came out recently (“OH”) in book form. Taking out the more sensational elements of the accounts enabled a fabulously successful novel and film. (“UH-HUH” “IT’S TO MAKE”) It’s always an alternative to do. In your case, you don’t need to do that. You know why? Because there are enough fascinating things that have gone on.
T: Oh gosh. (“YEAH”) You just wait until tonight.
Q: You appreciate them. You don’t try to change them. And then later on you discuss them and you say, “Do we need to keep this?”
T: Like the funny things — just hilarious (“RIGHT”) things have happened.
Q: It’s a matter of getting the facts down and having someone (“YOU KNOW”) with good taste to know what should stay in. (“YOU KNOW”) You know? (“BUT YOU DON’T WANT TO HAVE A DRY”) You don’t want a dry book that lists just what happened. (“YOU WANT IT”)
T: There were things that we told LMNO and they told us, “Oh, well don’t mention that. Don’t say that.” And these things happened. They didn’t want to know about it. “Well, we don’t need to know about that.” It’s the truth. You know?
Q: It’s only going to be about fifteen minutes on a TV show. (“WELL THAT’S GOOD” “IF”) This special probably will get you a lot of attention.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TURN THE TAPE RECORDER BACK ON WHEN TWYLA MENTIONS THAT MICHAEL ONCE BAKED THE FAMILY A CAKE. SOON, I TELL TWYLA ABOUT A 17TH CENTURY CASE THAT ALSO FEATURED A CAKE.)
Q: What kind of cakes did Michael bake you?
T: Just plain, yellow cake.
Q: They first thought Hieronyma was possessed. She kept feeling kisses. (“UH-HUH”) The voice came back and she felt somebody invisible kissing her cheek.
T: Oh mercy.
Q: They thought she was possessed so they exorcised her. This particular poltergeist pretended to be lovesick, weeping and moaning, trying to seduce her. It wanted to seduce her.
T: Oh my goodness.
Q: Then, it appeared to her. It assumed the shape of a small man with golden hair, flaxen beard, green eyes and dressed in Spanish attire. Can you believe it?
T: Yeah.
Q: Yet only she could see him. No one else could see him. As she was seeing him, other people could not see him.
T: That’s weird.
Q: And then he took away things like her silver cross and jewelry.
Y: Da-da.
Q: From inside safes he would take things from her.
T: He’s taken crosses from me. And a necklace. (“TAKE” “YEAH”)
Q: He would beat her (“WHEN SHE WOULDN’T”) when she wouldn’t have sex with him.
Y: Hi, Kim.
K: Hi, baby.
Q: One time he snatched away her daughter and left her on the edge of a gutter but she was never harmed. He would take the kids away sometimes.
T: Oh my goodness. That would be crazy.
Q: I guess I shouldn’t have told you about that. (small laugh) (“JESUS” “YOU CAN TELL HER TO COME IN”) It once built a wall around her bed. (“INSIDE HER BED”) It built a wall and then took it away mysteriously. This was like a big wall that no one could move.
T: Oh my gosh.
Q: (big exhale) (“PLEASE SAVE SOME DEADBEAT” “SO”) I’m pretty clear on the family now. The three daughters and Mom and Dad.
T: There are four daughters.
K: I was also living here when this first started.
T: Were you?
K: I was living in the back, remember?
Q: Was there anyone else? (“UH-HUH”)
K: Heather.
T: See, I didn’t remember that. (“SO” “THIS WAS IN SEPTEMBER”)
K: Yeah, I was in the back. (“HOW OLD”)
Q: How old were you at the time when it first started?
K: Twyla was eighteen. I turned twenty-three.
Q: Twyla, Marla, Brenda, Kim, Mom and Dad. And anyone else?
K: My husband.
Q: Your husband was there too? What was his name?
K: Steve. (“STEVE”)
Q: And he was about the same age?
K: He was the same age I was. (“AND THAT’S ALL”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I HEARD THIS SPIRIT VOICE THE FIRST TIME I LISTENED TO THE TAPE AND SOON REALIZED IT SIGNIFIED THAT ONLY THE EIGHT FAMILY MEMBERS WERE TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY PROFITS FROM THE RESULTING FILM AND BOOK, KEEPING IN MIND BOTH TWYLA’S AND KIM’S HUSBANDS ARE NAMED STEVE.)
Q: You saw the same thing they did.
T: In May.
Q: The rocks.
K: We thought it was kids.
T: Cops thought it was kids doing it.
K: You could hear them running. You could hear them running and there was nobody there. (“YEAH”)
T: Of course, you’re going to think it’s kids with a rock and slingshot.
K: You can take off from here in a car in broad daylight and they just cover your car with rocks (“AND THEN”) all of a sudden again.
Q: The three bottles that burst open was one of the earlier events. Were there any other early events like that?
K: Not that I can think of. The rocks were the main thing
Q: What was the first thing it said that you remember hearing?
K: I wasn’t living here at the time that it started talking, though.
Q: So you moved out.
K: I didn’t hear it for a long time (“RIGHT”) but what we heard were growling noises. (“THAT’S”)
Q: That’s interesting. Growling.
K: Heather and I heard it the other night when we were sitting in there. And only the other day.
T: He thought he heard a growl earlier.
Q: I thought I heard a growl but it might have been something moving somehow or somewhere.
K: You hear it once in a while in here. Me and Heather were sitting right there on the couch and Bill was in the bed. Mama went to town. That baby’s growl was loud. (“DID IT BITE” “NOBODY’S BABY”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A BREAK I TURN ON THE TAPE RECORDER AGAIN WHEN KIM MENTIONS AN ODD OCCURRENCE WHERE A FAMILY ACQUAINTANCE SPOKE TO TWYLA ABOUT THE ORPHANAGE THAT BURNT DOWN AND, SOON AFTER THAT, HAD NO RECOLLECTION OF THE INCIDENT.)
(“THIS IS A”)
Q: This reminds me of another parallel to another case where it was another black man. This was the case that inspired the movie “Poltergeist” (“UH-UH”) where a black man appeared and told them that (“YOU KNOW THIS IS”) this area was an Indian burial ground.
T: Yeah, we’ve heard that too. (“BUT THEN”) People have told us that too.
Q: But then he disappeared strangely.
T: This old man’s name is Jack Williams. (“BUT HE COULD HAVE”)
Q: It could have been some entity assuming his appearance (“AT LEAST IF YOU”) if you consider the other stories. So we have the rumors of a burnt-down orphanage started by a black man. Who saw the black man?
T: Me. I wasn’t living here at the time. I was living in Coalgate.
Q: This is interesting because of the black man. I mean (“BLACK”) symbolism. Do you mean Negro (“NO”) or do you mean just very dark complexion?
T: Negro. Black. African American.
Q: You know, there are certain Spaniards and people that have really dark complexions. (“OKAY”)
T: Black.
Q: So this probably (“DANIEL”) was a legitimate misunderstanding and not part of the phenomena. What other proof is there about the orphanage other than the burnt pennies and things that you’ve found? (“BURNT”)
T: Burnt dinnerware.
Q: Are there any other legends in the area? (“UH-HUH”) Maybe the bigfoot might be one.
T: Legends?
Q: Like strange experiments being done at the mental hospital. You know? (laughs) No. Okay. (“NO”)
K: The only other weird legends around here are about the Devil worshipers.
Q: Oh my God. We have that too? How did that legend begin? (“DAMN”)
T: That’s really not a legend. That’s the truth.
K: Well, when I was five years old the cattlemen were finding dead cows in the pastures around here. There was something coming here that would chop the tops of the trees off even. (“MAN”) The very top of the trees. It would drain the blood and take the genitals off their cows.
Q: Oh, that still goes on. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: That was on the news the other day.
K: Yeah, I know. They couldn’t figure out how the top of the trees got chopped off like that. (“WHAT” “VEERED”)
Q: The spaceship? (small laugh) Right? The spaceship? But they think the Devil worshipers are doing it. (“SEE THAT’S WHAT THEY USUALLY THINK”) They usually blame it on some evil agent of the supernatural (“NOT REALLY”) when these things (“MIGHT”) might have been the work of aliens. (“MIGHT”) They might want to assign an evil to it because they don’t understand it. (“BUT”) So what are these Devil worshipers? Is that their only evidence? Or did they find desecrations at a church or something like that?
K: There were dead animals, pentagrams and things like that. Dolls.
Q: What do you mean — pentagrams? Drawn in the cows’ flesh?
K: No. I think it was just drawn in the ground or whatever.
T: We have a park up in Ada — Wintersnip Park. There’s an amphitheater that used to be a big long stairs and they’ve been seen down in there at night. You don’t go to the park at night. That’s theirs. There’s chanting around the fire.
Q: You mean actual Devil worshipers?
T: Yeah. Actual. (“HUH”)
Q: I can’t believe everything going on like this. You have Devil worshipers?
T: There are crazy people in the world.
Q: I know but (“YOU JUST”) you have so many different gothic ingredients thrown in.
T: Anything that you can imagine. The only thing missing are dinosaurs.
Q: They’ll probably dig one of them up one of these days.
K: There’ll probably be one found tomorrow.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: KIM’S SON, ERIC, COMES OVER TO THE TABLE.)
T: You little sweetie. Your hair is just as white as snow.
K: Yours was this blonde too when you were that little, wasn’t it?
T: It’s real blonde. That picture of me he keeps. (reacts) Oh baby. (“GOSH”) I was about to pull his hair back and I pulled that scab back.
K: The other day there was a baby that fell out of a window.
T: (gasps) Really?
K: It’s about a seven-story window and his diaper saved him.
T: Oh yeah.
K: You heard about that? The diaper exploded.
T: The air through it.
K: It didn’t explode. It kind of made like a —
T: Parachute.
K: — parachute ride.
T: Yeah, I heard that. That’s remarkable. I also heard about a baby falling out of a window and being caught by a man.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TURN THE TAPE RECORDER BACK ON AS WE BEGIN DISCUSSING ONE OF THE FAMILY’S PHOTOS IN WHICH THE APPARITION OF A CHILD CAN BE SEEN IN THE BACKGROUND.)
T: The little girl has braids. She’s wearing old-fashioned clothes like on “Little House on the Prairie.” We found her back there. Mama noticed that.
K: From years ago.
T: She’s right there.
Q: Oh, I see. (“BACK”) So even back then.
T: Even back then something was strange.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I NOTICE ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH.)
Q: Oh my goodness. Did it do this once here?
T: Yeah. That’s with bird gravel.
Q: Oh my God. That’s really unbelievable. That’s so unbelievable I can’t even believe it.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT ONE I LOOK AT IS TOO FAINT TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS BOOK.) [2021 UPDATE: IT NOW MAY BE SEEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CHAPTER TRANSCRIPT TAPE #6 SIDE #1.]
Q: Which one is this again? Is there anything going on in this one?
T: There are little kids in the cellar door. See the cellar door? There’s a little boy. You have to look real good. And there’s a little boy with overalls right in there.
K: There was nobody in the cellar at the time.
Q: You have quite a collection of these. How did you find the photo with the red eyes in the background?
T: We started going through old pictures to see if there was anything unusual.
Q: Every one of these is the type of photo that they love to feature on those unexplained shows.
T: The photo of the girl with braids could be explainable.
Q: I don’t think so because I’ve seen this exact apparition before. (“AGAIN”) I’ve seen this exact apparition with other people in a photo on one of those shows. (“YEAH”) I watch them. I don’t really like them. Everything about them is intended to spook people. (“DID YOU”) Did you keep the negatives of any of these photos? You should because people are going to want you to prove that you didn’t fake them. They’ll eventually want to see the negatives.
T: I don’t know if we have the negatives or not.
Q: I’m just saying that’s what they would want to see later on. (“YOU MIGHT”) Don’t throw any negatives away. (“THIS IS UN”) This is unbelievable. It’s like in every photo there’s something strange.
T: I’ll be glad when Daddy gets back so he can watch Megan. I rely on him. (“OOOH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A HIATUS I FIND MY MISPLACED TAPE RECORDER AS MAXINE AND I DISCUSS BILL FURTHER.)
M: Did you find it?
Q: Yeah.
M: He’s wanting to kill himself.
Q: Really? (“YEAH”) Is it the pain? Is it painful?
M: He hurts all over he says. (“UH-UH”) He’s had a light stroke in this arm and they can’t take his blood pressure.
Q: He’s had a lot to deal with. (“WRONG”)
M: Yeah.
T: They said, “This is a freelance writer.”
K: Megan, here’s your mama.
T: He came and he looked at everybody and said, “Well, they’re not crazy.” Later on they told us he was really a psychiatrist. His name was David. He was nice. He was from Stillwater, Oklahoma. They shouldn’t have even lied.
Q: It’s the cart pulling the horse. You don’t start off that way. They’re just desperate and in a frantic rush.
T: They shouldn’t have said he was a freelance writer. They should have said, “He’s curious. He wants to come and visit you.” (“UH-HUH”) Don’t lie. (“BUT THEY DON’T HAVE ENOUGH”)
Q: But they don’t have enough information to reach any fast conclusions. (“RUSH”) Unbelievable.
T: Back here it’s not like that. (“WHAT GOOD”)
Q: What good can come of bad? (“WHEN”) When it begins with this crazy rush to get poltergeist aspects? (“UH-HUH”) They’ll just imitate previous spook stories. That doesn’t do anybody any good. What is innately true will (“OP”) come out in the long term. How do you view life (“WHEN”) now that you know these things are possible?
T: I don’t know now.
Q: Do you think that there is — there was a Jesus?
T: Yeah.
Q: Are you sure that there was a Jesus?
T: Yeah. I was never one who believed in evolution.
Q: The alternative to evolution is divine beginning. (“WE — BUT” “I”) You can believe in both. There’s no reason why you can’t believe in a little bit of evolution. I personally think it’s a little bit of both. (“OOOHHH”)
T: You never know.
Q: What do you think about having children around here? You don’t live here but obviously there were children who lived here while this was going on. They never were in danger or —
T: No. I never felt like they were in danger. If anything, it was protecting them. It seemed like nothing ever hit them. I mean rocks could be flying a million (“YEAH”) at a time and they’d never get hit.
Q: Have you ever seen any aspects of your own personality in this other entity?
T: Yeah. A lot.
Q: That’s scary because one of the classic theories is a splinter of the consciousness (“UH-HUH”) of the teenager splinters off and creates a separate entity. Do you see that happening?
T: Yeah. They asked me, “Do you see yourself?” I said, “Yeah, because if anything ever happened to Michael I’d just die. Or if he ever went away. He’s always told us he didn’t want “Unsolved Mysteries” to come here because they’d suck him out of the attic. That’s exactly what he told us and we said, “We will not get ‘Unsolved Mysteries.’ We don’t even like them.”
Q: Well, “Encounters” will do the same thing. (“YEAH”) (laughs)
T: We didn’t care for them either.
Q: What about “Sightings”? The same thing?
T: Yeah.
Q: I can’t even tell them apart. Those shows are so contrived because they have to produce one every week. There’s another show now too. “The Unbelievable”? No. (“IT’S THAT”) The one hosted by that “L.A. Law” star? I remember. “The Extraordinary.”
T: There’s one called “The Other Side.”
Q: That talk show.
T: Well, it was the host of that show who came here. She’s a coordinator of “Put
It To The Test.”
Q: I only saw her once but I thought, “Oh my God, this woman has nothing upstairs at all.” (“IS SHE”) The guy who used to host “The Other Side” I thought had some credibility.
T: This Dana Fleming. She’s a very pretty woman.
Q: There have been so many people trying to use you for their own purposes.
T: They put so much pressure on me.
Q: It’s comic.
T: They wanted me to make Michael do something and I cannot make him do something unless he wants to do it.
Q: And this isn’t giving him any motivation, is it? The fact that they’re being pushy.
T: It pisses him off. It makes him mad when they treat me that way. And he would do stuff just to get them away from me.
Q: But he’ll do it in a way that doesn’t give them anything. Why should he give them any proof?
T: When he did something in front of the camera, the camera’s batteries (“UMM”) went dead. They left here as believers but they expected too much.
Q: They were probably believers to begin with or they wouldn’t have come out. The Bell Witch would always (“YOU KNOW I”) know right away if someone was a believer or didn’t believe.
T: Michael has told us several times, “I DON’T HAVE TO PROVE MYSELF TO ANYBODY.” (“THAT’S RIGHT” “HAND” “LIKE”)
Q: Just like Jesus Christ doesn’t have to prove himself to anybody either. So your quandary is sort of mankind’s quandary but in a much more focused situation in terms of dealing with what is unknowable. (“HAAH”) In terms of your religious background, you’re probably just like me. You’re sort of Christian but you don’t really practice any — (“ANY”)
T: Church of Christ. (“CAUSE IT’S”) And not the Church of Christ of Later Day Saints.
Q: There’s not a lot of rituals there, are there?
T: They’re pretty strict. There’s no musical instruments.
Q: No musical instruments?
T: They sing a cappella.
Q: That’s sort of bizarre. (“UM-HUH — UM-HUH” “WHAT”) What source of sin is there in musical instruments? (“I DON’T”) Does your whole family go to church? (“UH-OH”)
T: Yeah. It goes back to one of them Bible verses: “Sing and to make melody in your heart. Not make melody with musical instruments.” (“OH GOD”)
Q: There are also the Amish —
T: Did Mama tell you we’ve been more or less kicked out of church because of all this? Because they don’t believe in this stuff? (“IS IT”)
Q: Isn’t that ridiculous? They allow alcoholism and smoking and all those things. (laughs)
T: If you’ve seen a ghost (“KNEW IT”) they think you should be quiet about it. (“THAT’S LIKE”)
Q: They’re presuming that this proves evil as opposed to proving good. (“YOU KNOW”) I don’t get that. How can someone project evil into something? (“DON’T”) It just shows you how limited their scope is. (mock Southern evangelical dialect) Church of Christ! Do you go to church on Sundays?
T: We don’t go any more.
Q: After being kicked out.
T: More or less.
Q: See? Now that’s another important aspect of your story.
T: That’s not Christian.
Q: In your hour of biggest need your church abandons you because you have something that scares them.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I AM GLANCING THROUGH THE PHOTOGRAPHS ON THE TABLE.)
T: He was the main producer. Eric Schultz.
Q: He’s probably scarier than Michael. (laughs)
T: He’s so conceited. (“YEAH”)
Q: Oh, look. There’s the egg photo. Is that what happened to Eric?
T: No, that’s a friend.
Q: That’s funny.
T: There are people that still come out on a regular basis to talk to Michael. We can get some people up here right now if you want to talk to them.
Q: Oh, I would love to talk to him.
T: He talks to them like he talks to us. Like we’re talking. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Really? (“DITTO” “TONE OF VOICE”) But I don’t know if he would let me interview him.
T: If he got to know you I bet he would. He has to get to know you. And he’s already done stuff in front of you which surprises me because usually he don’t do it that quick. But he’s a good judge of character. (“UH-HUH” “HE CRIES LIKE”)
Q: It’s amazing. (“OOOHHH”) I don’t get it. It’s unfathomable. (“BUT YOU KNOW”) I don’t know if it’s that we’re not supposed to know what’s going on — (“OR IF THEY DON’T”) or maybe they don’t even know. Maybe they don’t know.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AT ONE POINT IN THE INTERVIEW MEGAN COMES OVER AND HITS ME.)
(“OWWWWWW”)
T: (to Megan) Don’t hit.
Q: That’s okay. Feels good.
T: If she hits you in the nose it won’t feel good. (small laugh)
Q: Well, It’s worth it, though. Isn’t it?
T: Yeah, they are.
Q: A cute little girl like this? Even though, unfortunately, our society isn’t structured in a way that permits many people to be good parents. You paint ceramic sculptures at home. That’s perfect for someone with kids.
T: I don’t want to leave her and it takes two incomes. (“UM-HUH”)
Q: You can teach her the values you want her to have. (“I — I”)
T: I can whup her butt when I need to whup her butt. And it needs to be whupped all the time.
Q: (small laugh) That would be considered abuse in our time. People are so screwed up.
T: I got my butt whupped when I was little. I turned out to be pretty good. Did you get spanked when you were little?
Q: Well, I didn’t mind that but my parents fought with one another. My father threw my mother against the floor and things like that.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A BREAK, WE BEGIN DISCUSSING BILL’S CONDITION AGAIN.)
T: He don’t want to eat. He don’t want to drink.
Q: They can’t.
T: I swear. I’ll show you. He drank.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS UNATTRIBUTED RECORDING INTERFERENCE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE. TWYLA SHOWS ME A LARGE GLASS.)
(“OKAY”)
T: Every ten minutes Mama would fill this up and he would drink it.
Q: There was an incident in the Bell case where somebody once saw a pitcher levitate, pour out, and the contents vanish into the air.
T: Maybe it’s not even going into him. (“OR IT COULD WORK”)
Q: Or it could be going out of his stomach.
T: He is dehydrated.
Q: They have the power to take it out of your stomach. (“UH-HUH”) If they have unlimited powers to do what they want there is nothing that they couldn’t do.
T: Maybe he’s being punished.
Q: It’s sort of obvious, isn’t it?
T: It’s like if God isn’t going to do it or hadn’t done it —
Q: Well, yeah, but a lot of people do bad things and never get punished. It’s just certain events can make it possible.
T: It’s like they just hate me though. (“WELL THAT’S JUST PART OF IT”)
Q: Well, that’s just part of what’s going on, isn’t it, though?
T: Yeah.
Q: Because if that was all it was, you wouldn’t feel, “Oh my God, why me?”
T: I do. I feel that way. You don’t know how many problems I have had from my husband. He’ll whup their ass if they talk bad about me now but do you know how many problems I’ve had with this? I’ve been threatened.
Q: Well, I have a feeling that eventually it will be over. (“IF THIS”) If this really is as similar to the Bell case as it has been so far, after Bill dies is when the main haunting ends. (“YOU” “OKAY”) The Bell spirit would say it’s main reason for being there was to kill the father. The bad father.
T: What did the bad father do?
Q: No one knows. Some people have conjectured that there was abuse going on.
T: Like molestation?
Q: Right. (“BUT”) No one knows. That might not even be true.
T: I feel more sane after all this has happened to me than I did before I even believed in ghosts and aliens. And I think people that don’t believe in this or who aren’t at least open-minded are the crazy ones. (“WELL”) Isn’t that crazy? I think you should at least be (“IT’S”) open-minded.
Q: It’s based on your experience. (“KEYS”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I NOTICE THAT THE CHILDREN HAVE SOME KEYS.)
Q: Are these keys of yours? You don’t want them to get lost.
T: Oh, they’re just playing with them. They don’t really go to anything. (“WHO KNOWS”)
Q: There are no easy answers and that’s what makes me so frustrated with a lot of these ‘psychic investigators’ who have already decided what is going on here. (“YEAH”) They’re just looking for evidence that will confirm what they want. (“WHO”) Some of the things that have happened don’t even involve you.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS RUNNING AROUND THE ROOM YELLING.)
Q: You can’t be causing what the other people are experiencing. I’s really quite convoluted.
T: You think you got it almost figured out and something blows your mind.
Q: If the phenomena was just happening in your presence it would be a relief. But it’s more than that.
T: It’s just more happens when I am here in this house.
Q: So you might be some kind of (“CAUSE YOU KNOW”) power source for it.
T: Yeah. (“AND — BUT IT — I DON’T THINK”)
Q: All I can say is that in all the accounts I’ve read it’s always weather-boarded houses, whatever that means. (“YOU ARE”) It’s usually a young girl and not a young boy.
T: That’s what (“THAT WAS”) Barry Taff says. (“CORRECT”) Usually girls at puberty. (“BUT GIRLS”) Girls who’ve suffered abuse.
Q: There have been older ones though too. (“CORRECT”)
T: They asked me if I get headaches a lot or feel sick. (“NO”)
Q: It might be drawing from you without you being aware of it. It could happen at night when you’re asleep.
T: Sometimes I would find rocks in my bed when I would wake up in the middle of the night as if something was with me. I would wake up (“WHOOPS”) and find rocks and gravel in my bed. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: Betsy Bell and the other children in her family had their hair almost pulled out of their heads.
T: That happened here. (“NO BUT”)
Q: It was virulent when it first started. Before that, they heard scratching like this.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I DEMONSTRATE THE SOUND HERE.)
(“YEAH”)
Q: Scratching noises all around the house. (“AND THEN”) Then, the hair pulling started. (“YOU — THERE WAS”) So, you said there was hair-pulling here too?
T: Yeah. A lot.
Q: Was this early (“NO”) or consistent?
T: Not real early. (“BUT” “UHHH”) At night it’s worse. Sometimes you don’t hear him and a day or a week will go by. Then, he’s just wild all day. It depends. It may depend on my belief.
Q: Really? Now that’s (“SEE THAT’S WHAT’S”) what needs to be gone into a little bit.
T: Like when I’m mad — (“I’M MAD”) when somebody makes me mad or hurts my feelings, then he’s hurt, he’s mad. (“SEE WHAT”)
Q: What I have to do — and it will be hard to work nonstop on this because it’s very grueling work (“BUT”) — is set up the various areas of the phenomena and then see how they relate. (“YES”) The main thing is just telling your story point out.
T: You wouldn’t have to use our exact names?
Q: What? (“TELL US”)
T: Tell our —
Q: Nothing. There are no rules. (“WHAT”)
T: Really? (“WHAT”)
Q: The first thing that we have to know is what the alternatives are.
T: With Steve being a police officer, you know? (“OH NO”) You understand? (“YEAH” “I READ”)
Q: The case that inspired The Exorcist came out recently (“OH”) in book form. Taking out the more sensational elements of the accounts enabled a fabulously successful novel and film. (“UH-HUH” “IT’S TO MAKE”) It’s always an alternative to do. In your case, you don’t need to do that. You know why? Because there are enough fascinating things that have gone on.
T: Oh gosh. (“YEAH”) You just wait until tonight.
Q: You appreciate them. You don’t try to change them. And then later on you discuss them and you say, “Do we need to keep this?”
T: Like the funny things — just hilarious (“RIGHT”) things have happened.
Q: It’s a matter of getting the facts down and having someone (“YOU KNOW”) with good taste to know what should stay in. (“YOU KNOW”) You know? (“BUT YOU DON’T WANT TO HAVE A DRY”) You don’t want a dry book that lists just what happened. (“YOU WANT IT”)
T: There were things that we told LMNO and they told us, “Oh, well don’t mention that. Don’t say that.” And these things happened. They didn’t want to know about it. “Well, we don’t need to know about that.” It’s the truth. You know?
Q: It’s only going to be about fifteen minutes on a TV show. (“WELL THAT’S GOOD” “IF”) This special probably will get you a lot of attention.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TURN THE TAPE RECORDER BACK ON WHEN TWYLA MENTIONS THAT MICHAEL ONCE BAKED THE FAMILY A CAKE. SOON, I TELL TWYLA ABOUT A 17TH CENTURY CASE THAT ALSO FEATURED A CAKE.)
Q: What kind of cakes did Michael bake you?
T: Just plain, yellow cake.
Q: They first thought Hieronyma was possessed. She kept feeling kisses. (“UH-HUH”) The voice came back and she felt somebody invisible kissing her cheek.
T: Oh mercy.
Q: They thought she was possessed so they exorcised her. This particular poltergeist pretended to be lovesick, weeping and moaning, trying to seduce her. It wanted to seduce her.
T: Oh my goodness.
Q: Then, it appeared to her. It assumed the shape of a small man with golden hair, flaxen beard, green eyes and dressed in Spanish attire. Can you believe it?
T: Yeah.
Q: Yet only she could see him. No one else could see him. As she was seeing him, other people could not see him.
T: That’s weird.
Q: And then he took away things like her silver cross and jewelry.
Y: Da-da.
Q: From inside safes he would take things from her.
T: He’s taken crosses from me. And a necklace. (“TAKE” “YEAH”)
Q: He would beat her (“WHEN SHE WOULDN’T”) when she wouldn’t have sex with him.
Y: Hi, Kim.
K: Hi, baby.
Q: One time he snatched away her daughter and left her on the edge of a gutter but she was never harmed. He would take the kids away sometimes.
T: Oh my goodness. That would be crazy.
Q: I guess I shouldn’t have told you about that. (small laugh) (“JESUS” “YOU CAN TELL HER TO COME IN”) It once built a wall around her bed. (“INSIDE HER BED”) It built a wall and then took it away mysteriously. This was like a big wall that no one could move.
T: Oh my gosh.
Q: (big exhale) (“PLEASE SAVE SOME DEADBEAT” “SO”) I’m pretty clear on the family now. The three daughters and Mom and Dad.
T: There are four daughters.
K: I was also living here when this first started.
T: Were you?
K: I was living in the back, remember?
Q: Was there anyone else? (“UH-HUH”)
K: Heather.
T: See, I didn’t remember that. (“SO” “THIS WAS IN SEPTEMBER”)
K: Yeah, I was in the back. (“HOW OLD”)
Q: How old were you at the time when it first started?
K: Twyla was eighteen. I turned twenty-three.
Q: Twyla, Marla, Brenda, Kim, Mom and Dad. And anyone else?
K: My husband.
Q: Your husband was there too? What was his name?
K: Steve. (“STEVE”)
Q: And he was about the same age?
K: He was the same age I was. (“AND THAT’S ALL”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I HEARD THIS SPIRIT VOICE THE FIRST TIME I LISTENED TO THE TAPE AND SOON REALIZED IT SIGNIFIED THAT ONLY THE EIGHT FAMILY MEMBERS WERE TO PARTICIPATE IN ANY PROFITS FROM THE RESULTING FILM AND BOOK, KEEPING IN MIND BOTH TWYLA’S AND KIM’S HUSBANDS ARE NAMED STEVE.)
Q: You saw the same thing they did.
T: In May.
Q: The rocks.
K: We thought it was kids.
T: Cops thought it was kids doing it.
K: You could hear them running. You could hear them running and there was nobody there. (“YEAH”)
T: Of course, you’re going to think it’s kids with a rock and slingshot.
K: You can take off from here in a car in broad daylight and they just cover your car with rocks (“AND THEN”) all of a sudden again.
Q: The three bottles that burst open was one of the earlier events. Were there any other early events like that?
K: Not that I can think of. The rocks were the main thing
Q: What was the first thing it said that you remember hearing?
K: I wasn’t living here at the time that it started talking, though.
Q: So you moved out.
K: I didn’t hear it for a long time (“RIGHT”) but what we heard were growling noises. (“THAT’S”)
Q: That’s interesting. Growling.
K: Heather and I heard it the other night when we were sitting in there. And only the other day.
T: He thought he heard a growl earlier.
Q: I thought I heard a growl but it might have been something moving somehow or somewhere.
K: You hear it once in a while in here. Me and Heather were sitting right there on the couch and Bill was in the bed. Mama went to town. That baby’s growl was loud. (“DID IT BITE” “NOBODY’S BABY”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A BREAK I TURN ON THE TAPE RECORDER AGAIN WHEN KIM MENTIONS AN ODD OCCURRENCE WHERE A FAMILY ACQUAINTANCE SPOKE TO TWYLA ABOUT THE ORPHANAGE THAT BURNT DOWN AND, SOON AFTER THAT, HAD NO RECOLLECTION OF THE INCIDENT.)
(“THIS IS A”)
Q: This reminds me of another parallel to another case where it was another black man. This was the case that inspired the movie “Poltergeist” (“UH-UH”) where a black man appeared and told them that (“YOU KNOW THIS IS”) this area was an Indian burial ground.
T: Yeah, we’ve heard that too. (“BUT THEN”) People have told us that too.
Q: But then he disappeared strangely.
T: This old man’s name is Jack Williams. (“BUT HE COULD HAVE”)
Q: It could have been some entity assuming his appearance (“AT LEAST IF YOU”) if you consider the other stories. So we have the rumors of a burnt-down orphanage started by a black man. Who saw the black man?
T: Me. I wasn’t living here at the time. I was living in Coalgate.
Q: This is interesting because of the black man. I mean (“BLACK”) symbolism. Do you mean Negro (“NO”) or do you mean just very dark complexion?
T: Negro. Black. African American.
Q: You know, there are certain Spaniards and people that have really dark complexions. (“OKAY”)
T: Black.
Q: So this probably (“DANIEL”) was a legitimate misunderstanding and not part of the phenomena. What other proof is there about the orphanage other than the burnt pennies and things that you’ve found? (“BURNT”)
T: Burnt dinnerware.
Q: Are there any other legends in the area? (“UH-HUH”) Maybe the bigfoot might be one.
T: Legends?
Q: Like strange experiments being done at the mental hospital. You know? (laughs) No. Okay. (“NO”)
K: The only other weird legends around here are about the Devil worshipers.
Q: Oh my God. We have that too? How did that legend begin? (“DAMN”)
T: That’s really not a legend. That’s the truth.
K: Well, when I was five years old the cattlemen were finding dead cows in the pastures around here. There was something coming here that would chop the tops of the trees off even. (“MAN”) The very top of the trees. It would drain the blood and take the genitals off their cows.
Q: Oh, that still goes on. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: That was on the news the other day.
K: Yeah, I know. They couldn’t figure out how the top of the trees got chopped off like that. (“WHAT” “VEERED”)
Q: The spaceship? (small laugh) Right? The spaceship? But they think the Devil worshipers are doing it. (“SEE THAT’S WHAT THEY USUALLY THINK”) They usually blame it on some evil agent of the supernatural (“NOT REALLY”) when these things (“MIGHT”) might have been the work of aliens. (“MIGHT”) They might want to assign an evil to it because they don’t understand it. (“BUT”) So what are these Devil worshipers? Is that their only evidence? Or did they find desecrations at a church or something like that?
K: There were dead animals, pentagrams and things like that. Dolls.
Q: What do you mean — pentagrams? Drawn in the cows’ flesh?
K: No. I think it was just drawn in the ground or whatever.
T: We have a park up in Ada — Wintersnip Park. There’s an amphitheater that used to be a big long stairs and they’ve been seen down in there at night. You don’t go to the park at night. That’s theirs. There’s chanting around the fire.
Q: You mean actual Devil worshipers?
T: Yeah. Actual. (“HUH”)
Q: I can’t believe everything going on like this. You have Devil worshipers?
T: There are crazy people in the world.
Q: I know but (“YOU JUST”) you have so many different gothic ingredients thrown in.
T: Anything that you can imagine. The only thing missing are dinosaurs.
Q: They’ll probably dig one of them up one of these days.
K: There’ll probably be one found tomorrow.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: KIM’S SON, ERIC, COMES OVER TO THE TABLE.)
T: You little sweetie. Your hair is just as white as snow.
K: Yours was this blonde too when you were that little, wasn’t it?
T: It’s real blonde. That picture of me he keeps. (reacts) Oh baby. (“GOSH”) I was about to pull his hair back and I pulled that scab back.
K: The other day there was a baby that fell out of a window.
T: (gasps) Really?
K: It’s about a seven-story window and his diaper saved him.
T: Oh yeah.
K: You heard about that? The diaper exploded.
T: The air through it.
K: It didn’t explode. It kind of made like a —
T: Parachute.
K: — parachute ride.
T: Yeah, I heard that. That’s remarkable. I also heard about a baby falling out of a window and being caught by a man.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I TURN THE TAPE RECORDER BACK ON AS WE BEGIN DISCUSSING ONE OF THE FAMILY’S PHOTOS IN WHICH THE APPARITION OF A CHILD CAN BE SEEN IN THE BACKGROUND.)
T: The little girl has braids. She’s wearing old-fashioned clothes like on “Little House on the Prairie.” We found her back there. Mama noticed that.
K: From years ago.
T: She’s right there.
Q: Oh, I see. (“BACK”) So even back then.
T: Even back then something was strange.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I NOTICE ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH.)
Q: Oh my goodness. Did it do this once here?
T: Yeah. That’s with bird gravel.
Q: Oh my God. That’s really unbelievable. That’s so unbelievable I can’t even believe it.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT ONE I LOOK AT IS TOO FAINT TO BE INCLUDED IN THIS BOOK.) [2021 UPDATE: IT NOW MAY BE SEEN AT THE BEGINNING OF THE CHAPTER TRANSCRIPT TAPE #6 SIDE #1.]
Q: Which one is this again? Is there anything going on in this one?
T: There are little kids in the cellar door. See the cellar door? There’s a little boy. You have to look real good. And there’s a little boy with overalls right in there.
K: There was nobody in the cellar at the time.
Q: You have quite a collection of these. How did you find the photo with the red eyes in the background?
T: We started going through old pictures to see if there was anything unusual.
Q: Every one of these is the type of photo that they love to feature on those unexplained shows.
T: The photo of the girl with braids could be explainable.
Q: I don’t think so because I’ve seen this exact apparition before. (“AGAIN”) I’ve seen this exact apparition with other people in a photo on one of those shows. (“YEAH”) I watch them. I don’t really like them. Everything about them is intended to spook people. (“DID YOU”) Did you keep the negatives of any of these photos? You should because people are going to want you to prove that you didn’t fake them. They’ll eventually want to see the negatives.
T: I don’t know if we have the negatives or not.
Q: I’m just saying that’s what they would want to see later on. (“YOU MIGHT”) Don’t throw any negatives away. (“THIS IS UN”) This is unbelievable. It’s like in every photo there’s something strange.
T: I’ll be glad when Daddy gets back so he can watch Megan. I rely on him. (“OOOH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AFTER A HIATUS I FIND MY MISPLACED TAPE RECORDER AS MAXINE AND I DISCUSS BILL FURTHER.)
M: Did you find it?
Q: Yeah.
M: He’s wanting to kill himself.
Q: Really? (“YEAH”) Is it the pain? Is it painful?
M: He hurts all over he says. (“UH-UH”) He’s had a light stroke in this arm and they can’t take his blood pressure.
Q: He’s had a lot to deal with. (“WRONG”)
M: Yeah.
