TELEPHONE INTERVIEW / THERAPY SESSION — TAPE #18, SIDE #1
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Q: Mark Russell Bell
F: Fiona Manning (friend)
P: therapist
Q: I think my listening device is working now. When I saw you last and we went to lunch, that book I found at Crown called Love’s Awakening by Dhara Star Zyir with Marilyn Painter — turned out to be exactly what I needed at the time. It’s a channeled book so it really crystallized a lot of things. It took my experience and put it on a level that I, myself, could understand and maybe that other people can understand in terms of how it relates to me and to them and to each of us. You just can’t be afraid of these things. It’s all about letting go of personal ego.
F: You should read a book called Mary’s Message to the World. Have you heard about it?
Q: No.
F: It’s a wonderful book but, basically, this housewife in the Midwest started channeling the Virgin Mary. At first, she thought she was having delusions and then she started to get very scared of it and basically said to her when she realized it was the Virgin Mary, “Look, I’m not Catholic. I don’t believe in you. Why don’t you talk to someone Catholic who does?” And Mary said to her, “Well I’m not Catholic either.” And this housewife realized that the Virgin Mary had a wonderful sense of humor so she wrote this incredible book. The woman’s name is Annie Kirkwood and she channeled the Virgin Mary through a series of months where she was given messages about what is coming up for the planet. I really believe a lot of the prophecies.
Q: I think the Virgin Mary is an energy source. Don’t you?
F: Well, it’s all an energy source but I really believe she was channeling her because this woman is not a very educated woman. I don’t think she was someone who’d read a lot of books that have been channeled. So it’s not like she’s gotten it from other sources. Since that book’s been published, a lot of things that were in there are coming up in other books so I really do believe it’s accurate channeling.
Q: So what do you think is going on with me?
F: With you?
Q: Yeah. Just what’s your impression?
F: I don’t know that you’re getting a lot of good influences. I think sometimes you are but some of the things you’re telling me are very destructive.
Q: Sometimes I interpret them incorrectly.
F: I think that’s true too but I also think you really want to believe it too. There’s nothing wrong with that so I think you’re looking for signs all the time. My mother died when I was six years old and my life changed dramatically after that time. I think I was probably psychic from that point on. Maybe I was when I was born but I was very aware of being psychic at about the age of seven, I would say. But I was scared of it. Unlike you, I was — maybe you were scared of it, I don’t know, but I was very scared because it made me feel different. It made me feel weird. I didn’t like the messages I was getting and I’ve since learned to live with it and to work with it. But because I’ve lived with it all my life and have worked with my mother all my life, some of the things you’re telling me —
Q: Well, I’m kind of working with my Father — at least that’s one level of looking at Him. There’s a definite Father/son-type relationship.
F: You’re talking about Michael? The entity?
Q: Right. But He’s really ‘God Consciousness.’ Right?
F: I don’t know that he is.
Q: I know. That’s why I’m writing my book. You know?
F: I know. (“OOOCH”) What concerns me is that he’s a boy that was murdered by his mother. Is that right?
Q: That’s just one aspect of Him. He can be anything (“YEAH”) at any moment.
F: But on a spiritual level anyone who has murdered or has committed suicide — who has any kind of unfinished business like that — (“UM-HUH”)
Q: But that’s just one of the many spirits —
F: But I’m just explaining to you they’re lesser energies.
Q: Right. And see, that’s where I’m most confused.
F: They will lie to you and he has lied to you too. You have to admit that. They will tell you anything.
Q: Well, see, I don’t know the difference between — for example, there’s the archangel Michael and then there’s Michael the eight-year-old boy; then there’s reincarnation; then there’s the Great Creator. I don’t know how they all fit into one another but I think that the Great Creator is sort of guiding all the various forms of His energy to bring about whatever He wants to bring about.
F: What I think is important is that if the message feels good — feels so positive —
Q: It does. Yes, it does.
F: Then work with it. But they have told you negative things. They have told you strange things that really don’t make sense. (“WHAT”)
Q: What do you think is negative?
F: I think throwing things at you like sharp objects and stuff is evil.
Q: But it didn’t hurt me. It was symbolic.
F: Yes. That’s not a good entity.
Q: No, but it was symbolic.
F: My mother would never throw things at me.
Q: — it was more to indicate ‘I’m here.’
F: But they don’t do that. I mean a good energy does not throw sharp objects or any object. It really doesn’t. You’re dealing with a mischievous — people call them poltergeist but you’re basically dealing with a mischievous entity.
Q: Do you remember the time the magnet flew off the refrigerator when I was talking to you?
F: Yeah.
Q: What was your feeling at the time?
F: Well, see, stuff like that happens to me a lot because my mother is with me. And when I’m feeling alone I get very depressed like anyone. Strange things do happen here. I’ve learned to live with it. And every time it happens I’m surprised. I don’t know why I am because I deal with this all day long as a reader.
Q: Do you actually hear voices or are the messages intuitive?
F: I hear her when I’m doing readings because she helps me in my reading.
Q: I mean do you hear words or is it more like an impression?
F: I get pictures from my readings.
Q: You get thought pictures.
F: I feel like I’m watching a movie. Sometimes I hear words. She gives me names or whatever.
Q: But do you hear the actual names?
F: Yes.
Q: And is it internalized or externalized of your brain?
F: It’s inside. So when it first used to happen I used to think, “Oh, where the hell is that coming from?” I really didn’t know what it was. And I realized it was her. I guess when it first happened I didn’t want to acknowledge it. But then I realized that unless I worked with it my life would never be complete. And I realized that she had a purpose for me that may not have been the purpose that I wanted. So at some point I was forced to make enormous changes in my life. Just like you’ve been forced to. Because when I first met you ten years ago I was being forced to get out of my life as a journalist — a career that I’d wanted all my life. I was forced to go into complete poverty, illness — I almost died. And I didn’t know why. It was because I was not walking with Spirit. And when I first got into it I explored everything. I was interested in ghosts and witches and the occult — anything to do with that. My interest in this subject has evolved a lot since then.
Q: It’s interesting that we were brought together.
F: Well, you and I have always had a very strong interest in the bizarre. Probably you’ve had more of an interest in the bizarre than I have. I’ve always been interested in any book or story or movie that had to do with haunting.
Q: The one thing I should let you know is that I am convinced in my own mind that this wonderful loving form of intelligence that I call Michael because it’s easier for me —
F: Right. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: — is encompassing the spirit of an eight-year-old boy; encompassing the archangel; encompassing God — and They have always been in my life. It was like a warmth in my life that would help lead me to these various research assignments.
F: Right. But the only real way to connect with them is through meditation.
Q: Right.
F: And I also think that writing is one way. But I have learned. I completely communicate with my mother on a spiritual level so you’re going to go through a lot of changes in the way you communicate with the entity and the kind of information it gives you. Because what is going to happen shortly which it isn’t doing now is that it will give you very clear messages about helping humanity. The reason they choose you is because you can educate. I remember when I got the idea for Truelove it happened because I was suicidal. And I got a very clear idea of why I had to write this book. I realized that a lot of women felt the way I did — a lot of people. I’m a woman so I wrote it from a woman’s point-of-view. In your case, you’ve always had a very strong interest in this whole area. You’ve had a very strong interest in visions and prophecies and all of that stuff.
Q: But I never saw any evil in it, though.
F: No, but what I’m saying is some of the things they’ve told you don’t make any sense. And I’ve read your transcript. What you’re going to have to start doing —
Q: Well, the transcript was still very rough when you saw it. It’s much better now because it took me a while to become accustomed to distinguish the voices.
F: That’s exactly what I’m saying.
Q: And now they are very clear to me.
F: Exactly. What I read —
Q: Clearer.
F: — what you showed me wasn’t jelling but I realized you needed to differentiate between what you wanted to hear and what it’s there to tell you.
Q: I couldn’t distinguish Michael’s voice or voices from my own voice until around the third time I went through the tapes. And even now I’m never really sure where I begin and where Michael begins because of the way He works.
F: It just takes time because this is a different form of communication and you have to learn this. It may take you a year. It may take you a month. I don’t know. But not everything He tells you is the truth.
Q: Oh, I know that.
F: Because they’re dead doesn’t mean they’re perfect. And you have to look at what he’s telling you as well. Until he starts giving you your purpose — whatever your message is to the world. Until you start getting that, it won’t be completely clear. But nine times out of ten when you’re first dealing with this stuff, they tell you what you want to hear. Does that make sense?
Q: Too much.
F: What happens is you have to be absolutely honest with yourself and say, “I really need your help. I really need you to be honest with me.” And they stop doing that. I think once you surround yourself with your highest power and you ask for your highest good and for your guide to help you, the energy you know as Michael will leave. Because I don’t think he’s the one that’s there to teach you. I just think he was your connection.
Q: Well, I haven’t been getting any television messages or computer messages recently. I’m trying to think what the last manifestation was — well, of course, I think God manifests Himself in everything.
F: Sure, but you’re going to get very strong messages in your dreams. And at some point I think you’re going to have to get together with a good channeler and learn to channel for yourself. Not on your own, though.
Q: Well, I did find a great channeler. I had an hour session with a channeler.
F: You should learn how to do it yourself ( “YES”) because they have strong messages for you. But in the beginning you really don’t get good information.
Q: Well, I just want to trust my own intuition, though, too.
F: In the beginning we really can confuse ourselves. I know I did. But that’s part of the process. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just getting to the next point.
Q: Have you had any phenomena recently? (“YOU KNOW”) It doesn’t matter if it’s related to my story or not.
F: Well, I have experiences everyday because this is what I do for a living. But I have to say that everything that comes to me are usually to help other people. They’re not for my own benefit. So I consider it a real gift that I get to help people. I know I make a big difference in a lot of people’s lives because they tell me that everyday. That is when you know that you’re getting, first of all, good information and when you know you’re making an impact when other people tell you that.
Q: Until I went to Oklahoma I sort of dismissed psychics in general as people who just wanted to make a buck. The joke was really on me because now I accept maybe too much of it. I’m very wary but, for example, when I went to the Expo and I did meet that channeler I knew she was very sincere. I did go back to see her. I knew she was very talented. This book that I mentioned to you, Love’s Awakening, does address some of these things.
F: You need to do some reading now too. Not just writing. I really think you need to read Mary’s Message to the World. There are some books called the Kryon books you need to read too because I think what you’re getting — just from the (“WHAT”) bit that I read of your book — they’re trying to tell you about this shift that’s coming in world awareness.
Q: Oh, definitely — that’s exactly it.
F: And I think these books will help you as well. You’re definitely channeling some kind of entity but it’s been clouded with a lot of other stuff so what you have to learn is how to protect yourself from the negative influences.
Q: I am doing that too.
F: Do you know how to white light yourself?
Q: No.
F: You have to do this every day. When you first wake up — do it in the morning. And do it at night before you go to bed. Completely surround yourself by white light. For everybody the visualization process is different.
Q: Are you doing your dishes while you’re telling me this?
F: Sorry?
Q: It sounds like you’re doing your dishes or something.
F: Yeah. I’m just trying to get this done because I have to keep looking at it.
Q: It’s great that you’re giving me this profound advice while doing something so common as the dishes.
F: What I was going to tell you is — for every single person how they visualize is very personal. But, for me, I visualize myself standing in a room under a white spotlight and the spotlight stops at the top of my head and goes all the way around me. It goes under my feet, down my back, everywhere — and it completely protects me. It really works. When you’re doing your book you are very open — you, yourself, I’m talking about now. So you’re going to be open to all kinds of influences — good and bad. I’m more afraid of people than I am of the spirit world. I think you have enough good energy around you that you’re not going to be hurt by lesser energies. But the thing you have to tell yourself everyday too is: “With this activity, it is my intention to fully connect with my highest spiritual wisdom.” And then there’s a very sincere prayer —
Q: And give myself over to His will.
F: No.
Q: I mean to the Creator’s will or God’s will.
F: Well.
Q: Not ‘Michael’ but God.
F: I don’t like that because it’s kind of like you have no —
Q: Not entirely but just — I don’t know.
F: I think you have to be open to being in control of this.
Q: Well, I feel in control.
F: I don’t know that your worries are over.
Q: What do you mean?
F: Because you’re new at it.
Q: I know I’m new at it but that’s another reason why I don’t want to too much reading into these esoteric fields because (“YOU KNOW”) there’s no end to the amount of documented phenomena that’s available. Christine La Monte, who works with Michael, was telling me to read about these books that had been channeled through dead aliens or something. There are just so many different books out there.
F: And some good books, though. Some of them aren’t good. Some of them are good. The three Kryon books are very significant books. I would recommend them to anyone that’s getting into the work you’re getting into.
Q: I always recommend Zechariah Sitchin’s books.
F: Which book?
Q: Remember that page I told you to read? The one about Bel-Marduk. Apparently, I’m close to his energy — the energy of Bel-Marduk who was also the god (Amun-)Ra. In fact, didn’t we see that movie together?
F: “Stargate”?
Q: Right. “Stargate” with Kurt Russell. After talking to the channeler, it seems I’m close to the energy of Bel-Marduk. In most mythological books they just call him Marduk. And my name is Mark. So that’s sort of funny.
F: You’re getting a lot of influence. It’s not just from one.
Q: It’s not just from one. Do you think there’s like a Father/son relationship here? When I was in Alhambra, you brought me the poetry book and that autobiography by Robert Evans. It had this letter in it from a Dad to his son and it seemed like it was a very generalized letter that could be relating to me from my spiritual Father. It’s just something to think about because if He is influencing people’s subconscious minds — maybe this was one of the ways He helped me in my hour of need when I was in purgatory. I needed something to sustain me other than what was going on around me because that was changing at every moment. So I needed some love that I knew would be there for me. And that strange letter really gave it to me. In another part of the book there was a sentence that began “Wild! Women . . .” which reminded me of “Wild Woman,” the original title of my screenplay “Wonder of the World.” Plus, that other book that you brought — the poetry book —
F: Well, actually, I didn’t bring the books. Michael did.
Q: Right. Do you remember which one it was? I mean there were a couple poetry books. There was a paperback collection of Auden’s poems.
F: W. H. Auden. That’s right.
Q: There was some poems in there that really helped me.
F: Oh, I’m glad to hear it.
Q: But there was also one in that Poetry for Pleasure (anthologized by Ian Parsons) with a few gay sexual double entendres —
F: Oh really?
Q: — that aroused my deepest sexual fantasies. You know? My gay tendencies don’t include sodomy, which is something that I would never want to have happen to me. Nor would I ever want to do that. Some people who are preoccupied with that I think are just following the example of gay porno films. In my case, it’s just that I want this intimacy with some kind of male energy source — I guess because my father was divorced and what have you. Or maybe it’s because I’m so much in love with my spiritual Father. But, of course, when you say things like this people see it as something very dirty.
F: Well, I don’t see it as being dirty and I totally understand it. I think that on some level you’ve always been afraid of physical intimacy. So it makes total sense to me that you would choose a non-physical entity to fall in love with. I do the same thing except that —
Q: There are parallels between that book you wrote, Truelove, and my own life.
F: Absolutely. That’s totally valid, you know — a person that doesn’t exist. I totally understand that.
Q: And I see Him as — I see the Spirit as (“BEING”) the power of true love.
F: But that’s exactly who Frank is. In my mind, it’s a combination of entities and it’s very hard to explain that. I know you understand that but how do you explain that to people that don’t understand the concept of good and evil; and who don’t understand the concept of Spirit? Because in my mind God is Spirit. Not a person.
Q: I agree.
F: But it’s this ball of energy that I can’t even describe how He looks.
Q: Exactly.
F: But He is the most inherently good thing in the world.
Q: Right. That’s why I want Mark Kostabi to sell me this painting so I can have it on the cover of the book. He’s done a lot of spiritual beings. He’s done a lot of really interesting Postmodern works. It’d be neat if this works out. When I met him at the gallery reception, it was so funny because I was worried that he was going to ask for too much money so I said, “Well, you know, I drive a 1985 Mazda and I’m not going to make any money off the book.” Hopefully, he isn’t going to ask for too much money. I don’t think he is because I do think that he sees the connection here.
F: I think you should wait until you’ve made your deal, though. Only because you don’t pay for the rights to something that you haven’t used yet.
Q: When I asked the channeler about it Michael said that this would be the ideal painting for my book. It’s expensive but it’s worth the price.
F: I think you should get it. If you want to get it now and go for it — if you’ve got the money, do it.
Q: I do. I do. I do.
F: But listen. This has been interesting. I have to go but I’m glad we spoke. And you should get into meditation, sweetie.
Q: I’ve tried that — it’s just that —
F: It’s hard, I know. Just keep trying.
Q: — it’s like I never stop meditating. Because I’ve had so much of this going on that it’s like I’m always meditating at every moment. And I try to stop that.
F: Okay, but whenever you’re doing this kind of work just remember to white light yourself. Because it only lets completely good things come to you. And you’ll notice a new clarity in your work. You really will.
Q: I do feel more clear. Each day I feel a little bit more clear.
F: Good. (“THANK”)
Q: Well, anyway, thank you very much. Have a good day.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY PSYCHIC PSYCHIATRIST IN HER PENTHOUSE OFFICE.)
P: Let me ask you something. Are you taping this to get the content of our session or taping it to hear Michael’s voice?
Q: To get the content because, as you know, Michael only says a few words here and there —
P: Yeah.
Q: — so it’s very ambiguous to begin with. However, when I do interviews, I’ve been recording them at the faster play because it’s easier to hear the voice that way. I’ve interviewed my brother, his friend James, my friend Fiona —
P: For what purpose?
Q: Well, they’ve all witnessed little bits of the phenomena.
P: Oh, I see what you’re saying. But I’m wondering what your primary motivation is in terms of how obsessed you are about finding Michael in your tapes.
Q: That’s my problem. I’ve already found Michael and —
P: But you keep looking for more evidence and you keep —
Q: It’s just that through my interviews I’m able to articulate my feelings so when I play this back later it really sinks in because when I talk I don’t really have time to think. I just sort of speak off the top of my head. (“IT”) When I taped the last therapy session, it was more to organize my thoughts than to hear Michael. I could care less what Michael has to say because I even think that there’s a bad Michael and a good Michael. Like there’s this whispery voice which I’ve mentioned to you a few times. It seems to being saying things that — if there’s a dark side of Michael, it’s the low-pitched, whispery voice. So it’s helping me. Everything is helping me.
P: Why was that helping you? To constantly look for his voices?
Q: I’m not constantly looking for his voices but it’s just that I can recognize some of the most frequent ones.
P: I’m just wondering in terms of you getting on with your life to something else.
Q: Well, I am.
P: You’re doing other things —
Q: Yeah.
P: — but you’re still thinking a lot about this.
Q: Well, you know what? This weekend I found a really valuable book that crystallized a lot of things that I had been thinking about. It was published in 1987. The name of it is Love’s Awakening by Dhara Star Zyir with Marilyn Painter. (“THIS”) On the cover it says, “How to contact your inner guidance and use it to change your life.” It’s out of print, though, because I was trying to get extra copies to give to my friends and couldn’t find them anywhere. It ends with the usual sentiments:
F: You should read a book called Mary’s Message to the World. Have you heard about it?
Q: No.
F: It’s a wonderful book but, basically, this housewife in the Midwest started channeling the Virgin Mary. At first, she thought she was having delusions and then she started to get very scared of it and basically said to her when she realized it was the Virgin Mary, “Look, I’m not Catholic. I don’t believe in you. Why don’t you talk to someone Catholic who does?” And Mary said to her, “Well I’m not Catholic either.” And this housewife realized that the Virgin Mary had a wonderful sense of humor so she wrote this incredible book. The woman’s name is Annie Kirkwood and she channeled the Virgin Mary through a series of months where she was given messages about what is coming up for the planet. I really believe a lot of the prophecies.
Q: I think the Virgin Mary is an energy source. Don’t you?
F: Well, it’s all an energy source but I really believe she was channeling her because this woman is not a very educated woman. I don’t think she was someone who’d read a lot of books that have been channeled. So it’s not like she’s gotten it from other sources. Since that book’s been published, a lot of things that were in there are coming up in other books so I really do believe it’s accurate channeling.
Q: So what do you think is going on with me?
F: With you?
Q: Yeah. Just what’s your impression?
F: I don’t know that you’re getting a lot of good influences. I think sometimes you are but some of the things you’re telling me are very destructive.
Q: Sometimes I interpret them incorrectly.
F: I think that’s true too but I also think you really want to believe it too. There’s nothing wrong with that so I think you’re looking for signs all the time. My mother died when I was six years old and my life changed dramatically after that time. I think I was probably psychic from that point on. Maybe I was when I was born but I was very aware of being psychic at about the age of seven, I would say. But I was scared of it. Unlike you, I was — maybe you were scared of it, I don’t know, but I was very scared because it made me feel different. It made me feel weird. I didn’t like the messages I was getting and I’ve since learned to live with it and to work with it. But because I’ve lived with it all my life and have worked with my mother all my life, some of the things you’re telling me —
Q: Well, I’m kind of working with my Father — at least that’s one level of looking at Him. There’s a definite Father/son-type relationship.
F: You’re talking about Michael? The entity?
Q: Right. But He’s really ‘God Consciousness.’ Right?
F: I don’t know that he is.
Q: I know. That’s why I’m writing my book. You know?
F: I know. (“OOOCH”) What concerns me is that he’s a boy that was murdered by his mother. Is that right?
Q: That’s just one aspect of Him. He can be anything (“YEAH”) at any moment.
F: But on a spiritual level anyone who has murdered or has committed suicide — who has any kind of unfinished business like that — (“UM-HUH”)
Q: But that’s just one of the many spirits —
F: But I’m just explaining to you they’re lesser energies.
Q: Right. And see, that’s where I’m most confused.
F: They will lie to you and he has lied to you too. You have to admit that. They will tell you anything.
Q: Well, see, I don’t know the difference between — for example, there’s the archangel Michael and then there’s Michael the eight-year-old boy; then there’s reincarnation; then there’s the Great Creator. I don’t know how they all fit into one another but I think that the Great Creator is sort of guiding all the various forms of His energy to bring about whatever He wants to bring about.
F: What I think is important is that if the message feels good — feels so positive —
Q: It does. Yes, it does.
F: Then work with it. But they have told you negative things. They have told you strange things that really don’t make sense. (“WHAT”)
Q: What do you think is negative?
F: I think throwing things at you like sharp objects and stuff is evil.
Q: But it didn’t hurt me. It was symbolic.
F: Yes. That’s not a good entity.
Q: No, but it was symbolic.
F: My mother would never throw things at me.
Q: — it was more to indicate ‘I’m here.’
F: But they don’t do that. I mean a good energy does not throw sharp objects or any object. It really doesn’t. You’re dealing with a mischievous — people call them poltergeist but you’re basically dealing with a mischievous entity.
Q: Do you remember the time the magnet flew off the refrigerator when I was talking to you?
F: Yeah.
Q: What was your feeling at the time?
F: Well, see, stuff like that happens to me a lot because my mother is with me. And when I’m feeling alone I get very depressed like anyone. Strange things do happen here. I’ve learned to live with it. And every time it happens I’m surprised. I don’t know why I am because I deal with this all day long as a reader.
Q: Do you actually hear voices or are the messages intuitive?
F: I hear her when I’m doing readings because she helps me in my reading.
Q: I mean do you hear words or is it more like an impression?
F: I get pictures from my readings.
Q: You get thought pictures.
F: I feel like I’m watching a movie. Sometimes I hear words. She gives me names or whatever.
Q: But do you hear the actual names?
F: Yes.
Q: And is it internalized or externalized of your brain?
F: It’s inside. So when it first used to happen I used to think, “Oh, where the hell is that coming from?” I really didn’t know what it was. And I realized it was her. I guess when it first happened I didn’t want to acknowledge it. But then I realized that unless I worked with it my life would never be complete. And I realized that she had a purpose for me that may not have been the purpose that I wanted. So at some point I was forced to make enormous changes in my life. Just like you’ve been forced to. Because when I first met you ten years ago I was being forced to get out of my life as a journalist — a career that I’d wanted all my life. I was forced to go into complete poverty, illness — I almost died. And I didn’t know why. It was because I was not walking with Spirit. And when I first got into it I explored everything. I was interested in ghosts and witches and the occult — anything to do with that. My interest in this subject has evolved a lot since then.
Q: It’s interesting that we were brought together.
F: Well, you and I have always had a very strong interest in the bizarre. Probably you’ve had more of an interest in the bizarre than I have. I’ve always been interested in any book or story or movie that had to do with haunting.
Q: The one thing I should let you know is that I am convinced in my own mind that this wonderful loving form of intelligence that I call Michael because it’s easier for me —
F: Right. (“YOU KNOW”)
Q: — is encompassing the spirit of an eight-year-old boy; encompassing the archangel; encompassing God — and They have always been in my life. It was like a warmth in my life that would help lead me to these various research assignments.
F: Right. But the only real way to connect with them is through meditation.
Q: Right.
F: And I also think that writing is one way. But I have learned. I completely communicate with my mother on a spiritual level so you’re going to go through a lot of changes in the way you communicate with the entity and the kind of information it gives you. Because what is going to happen shortly which it isn’t doing now is that it will give you very clear messages about helping humanity. The reason they choose you is because you can educate. I remember when I got the idea for Truelove it happened because I was suicidal. And I got a very clear idea of why I had to write this book. I realized that a lot of women felt the way I did — a lot of people. I’m a woman so I wrote it from a woman’s point-of-view. In your case, you’ve always had a very strong interest in this whole area. You’ve had a very strong interest in visions and prophecies and all of that stuff.
Q: But I never saw any evil in it, though.
F: No, but what I’m saying is some of the things they’ve told you don’t make any sense. And I’ve read your transcript. What you’re going to have to start doing —
Q: Well, the transcript was still very rough when you saw it. It’s much better now because it took me a while to become accustomed to distinguish the voices.
F: That’s exactly what I’m saying.
Q: And now they are very clear to me.
F: Exactly. What I read —
Q: Clearer.
F: — what you showed me wasn’t jelling but I realized you needed to differentiate between what you wanted to hear and what it’s there to tell you.
Q: I couldn’t distinguish Michael’s voice or voices from my own voice until around the third time I went through the tapes. And even now I’m never really sure where I begin and where Michael begins because of the way He works.
F: It just takes time because this is a different form of communication and you have to learn this. It may take you a year. It may take you a month. I don’t know. But not everything He tells you is the truth.
Q: Oh, I know that.
F: Because they’re dead doesn’t mean they’re perfect. And you have to look at what he’s telling you as well. Until he starts giving you your purpose — whatever your message is to the world. Until you start getting that, it won’t be completely clear. But nine times out of ten when you’re first dealing with this stuff, they tell you what you want to hear. Does that make sense?
Q: Too much.
F: What happens is you have to be absolutely honest with yourself and say, “I really need your help. I really need you to be honest with me.” And they stop doing that. I think once you surround yourself with your highest power and you ask for your highest good and for your guide to help you, the energy you know as Michael will leave. Because I don’t think he’s the one that’s there to teach you. I just think he was your connection.
Q: Well, I haven’t been getting any television messages or computer messages recently. I’m trying to think what the last manifestation was — well, of course, I think God manifests Himself in everything.
F: Sure, but you’re going to get very strong messages in your dreams. And at some point I think you’re going to have to get together with a good channeler and learn to channel for yourself. Not on your own, though.
Q: Well, I did find a great channeler. I had an hour session with a channeler.
F: You should learn how to do it yourself ( “YES”) because they have strong messages for you. But in the beginning you really don’t get good information.
Q: Well, I just want to trust my own intuition, though, too.
F: In the beginning we really can confuse ourselves. I know I did. But that’s part of the process. There’s nothing wrong with it. It’s just getting to the next point.
Q: Have you had any phenomena recently? (“YOU KNOW”) It doesn’t matter if it’s related to my story or not.
F: Well, I have experiences everyday because this is what I do for a living. But I have to say that everything that comes to me are usually to help other people. They’re not for my own benefit. So I consider it a real gift that I get to help people. I know I make a big difference in a lot of people’s lives because they tell me that everyday. That is when you know that you’re getting, first of all, good information and when you know you’re making an impact when other people tell you that.
Q: Until I went to Oklahoma I sort of dismissed psychics in general as people who just wanted to make a buck. The joke was really on me because now I accept maybe too much of it. I’m very wary but, for example, when I went to the Expo and I did meet that channeler I knew she was very sincere. I did go back to see her. I knew she was very talented. This book that I mentioned to you, Love’s Awakening, does address some of these things.
F: You need to do some reading now too. Not just writing. I really think you need to read Mary’s Message to the World. There are some books called the Kryon books you need to read too because I think what you’re getting — just from the (“WHAT”) bit that I read of your book — they’re trying to tell you about this shift that’s coming in world awareness.
Q: Oh, definitely — that’s exactly it.
F: And I think these books will help you as well. You’re definitely channeling some kind of entity but it’s been clouded with a lot of other stuff so what you have to learn is how to protect yourself from the negative influences.
Q: I am doing that too.
F: Do you know how to white light yourself?
Q: No.
F: You have to do this every day. When you first wake up — do it in the morning. And do it at night before you go to bed. Completely surround yourself by white light. For everybody the visualization process is different.
Q: Are you doing your dishes while you’re telling me this?
F: Sorry?
Q: It sounds like you’re doing your dishes or something.
F: Yeah. I’m just trying to get this done because I have to keep looking at it.
Q: It’s great that you’re giving me this profound advice while doing something so common as the dishes.
F: What I was going to tell you is — for every single person how they visualize is very personal. But, for me, I visualize myself standing in a room under a white spotlight and the spotlight stops at the top of my head and goes all the way around me. It goes under my feet, down my back, everywhere — and it completely protects me. It really works. When you’re doing your book you are very open — you, yourself, I’m talking about now. So you’re going to be open to all kinds of influences — good and bad. I’m more afraid of people than I am of the spirit world. I think you have enough good energy around you that you’re not going to be hurt by lesser energies. But the thing you have to tell yourself everyday too is: “With this activity, it is my intention to fully connect with my highest spiritual wisdom.” And then there’s a very sincere prayer —
Q: And give myself over to His will.
F: No.
Q: I mean to the Creator’s will or God’s will.
F: Well.
Q: Not ‘Michael’ but God.
F: I don’t like that because it’s kind of like you have no —
Q: Not entirely but just — I don’t know.
F: I think you have to be open to being in control of this.
Q: Well, I feel in control.
F: I don’t know that your worries are over.
Q: What do you mean?
F: Because you’re new at it.
Q: I know I’m new at it but that’s another reason why I don’t want to too much reading into these esoteric fields because (“YOU KNOW”) there’s no end to the amount of documented phenomena that’s available. Christine La Monte, who works with Michael, was telling me to read about these books that had been channeled through dead aliens or something. There are just so many different books out there.
F: And some good books, though. Some of them aren’t good. Some of them are good. The three Kryon books are very significant books. I would recommend them to anyone that’s getting into the work you’re getting into.
Q: I always recommend Zechariah Sitchin’s books.
F: Which book?
Q: Remember that page I told you to read? The one about Bel-Marduk. Apparently, I’m close to his energy — the energy of Bel-Marduk who was also the god (Amun-)Ra. In fact, didn’t we see that movie together?
F: “Stargate”?
Q: Right. “Stargate” with Kurt Russell. After talking to the channeler, it seems I’m close to the energy of Bel-Marduk. In most mythological books they just call him Marduk. And my name is Mark. So that’s sort of funny.
F: You’re getting a lot of influence. It’s not just from one.
Q: It’s not just from one. Do you think there’s like a Father/son relationship here? When I was in Alhambra, you brought me the poetry book and that autobiography by Robert Evans. It had this letter in it from a Dad to his son and it seemed like it was a very generalized letter that could be relating to me from my spiritual Father. It’s just something to think about because if He is influencing people’s subconscious minds — maybe this was one of the ways He helped me in my hour of need when I was in purgatory. I needed something to sustain me other than what was going on around me because that was changing at every moment. So I needed some love that I knew would be there for me. And that strange letter really gave it to me. In another part of the book there was a sentence that began “Wild! Women . . .” which reminded me of “Wild Woman,” the original title of my screenplay “Wonder of the World.” Plus, that other book that you brought — the poetry book —
F: Well, actually, I didn’t bring the books. Michael did.
Q: Right. Do you remember which one it was? I mean there were a couple poetry books. There was a paperback collection of Auden’s poems.
F: W. H. Auden. That’s right.
Q: There was some poems in there that really helped me.
F: Oh, I’m glad to hear it.
Q: But there was also one in that Poetry for Pleasure (anthologized by Ian Parsons) with a few gay sexual double entendres —
F: Oh really?
Q: — that aroused my deepest sexual fantasies. You know? My gay tendencies don’t include sodomy, which is something that I would never want to have happen to me. Nor would I ever want to do that. Some people who are preoccupied with that I think are just following the example of gay porno films. In my case, it’s just that I want this intimacy with some kind of male energy source — I guess because my father was divorced and what have you. Or maybe it’s because I’m so much in love with my spiritual Father. But, of course, when you say things like this people see it as something very dirty.
F: Well, I don’t see it as being dirty and I totally understand it. I think that on some level you’ve always been afraid of physical intimacy. So it makes total sense to me that you would choose a non-physical entity to fall in love with. I do the same thing except that —
Q: There are parallels between that book you wrote, Truelove, and my own life.
F: Absolutely. That’s totally valid, you know — a person that doesn’t exist. I totally understand that.
Q: And I see Him as — I see the Spirit as (“BEING”) the power of true love.
F: But that’s exactly who Frank is. In my mind, it’s a combination of entities and it’s very hard to explain that. I know you understand that but how do you explain that to people that don’t understand the concept of good and evil; and who don’t understand the concept of Spirit? Because in my mind God is Spirit. Not a person.
Q: I agree.
F: But it’s this ball of energy that I can’t even describe how He looks.
Q: Exactly.
F: But He is the most inherently good thing in the world.
Q: Right. That’s why I want Mark Kostabi to sell me this painting so I can have it on the cover of the book. He’s done a lot of spiritual beings. He’s done a lot of really interesting Postmodern works. It’d be neat if this works out. When I met him at the gallery reception, it was so funny because I was worried that he was going to ask for too much money so I said, “Well, you know, I drive a 1985 Mazda and I’m not going to make any money off the book.” Hopefully, he isn’t going to ask for too much money. I don’t think he is because I do think that he sees the connection here.
F: I think you should wait until you’ve made your deal, though. Only because you don’t pay for the rights to something that you haven’t used yet.
Q: When I asked the channeler about it Michael said that this would be the ideal painting for my book. It’s expensive but it’s worth the price.
F: I think you should get it. If you want to get it now and go for it — if you’ve got the money, do it.
Q: I do. I do. I do.
F: But listen. This has been interesting. I have to go but I’m glad we spoke. And you should get into meditation, sweetie.
Q: I’ve tried that — it’s just that —
F: It’s hard, I know. Just keep trying.
Q: — it’s like I never stop meditating. Because I’ve had so much of this going on that it’s like I’m always meditating at every moment. And I try to stop that.
F: Okay, but whenever you’re doing this kind of work just remember to white light yourself. Because it only lets completely good things come to you. And you’ll notice a new clarity in your work. You really will.
Q: I do feel more clear. Each day I feel a little bit more clear.
F: Good. (“THANK”)
Q: Well, anyway, thank you very much. Have a good day.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE NEXT RECORDED CONVERSATION IS WITH MY PSYCHIC PSYCHIATRIST IN HER PENTHOUSE OFFICE.)
P: Let me ask you something. Are you taping this to get the content of our session or taping it to hear Michael’s voice?
Q: To get the content because, as you know, Michael only says a few words here and there —
P: Yeah.
Q: — so it’s very ambiguous to begin with. However, when I do interviews, I’ve been recording them at the faster play because it’s easier to hear the voice that way. I’ve interviewed my brother, his friend James, my friend Fiona —
P: For what purpose?
Q: Well, they’ve all witnessed little bits of the phenomena.
P: Oh, I see what you’re saying. But I’m wondering what your primary motivation is in terms of how obsessed you are about finding Michael in your tapes.
Q: That’s my problem. I’ve already found Michael and —
P: But you keep looking for more evidence and you keep —
Q: It’s just that through my interviews I’m able to articulate my feelings so when I play this back later it really sinks in because when I talk I don’t really have time to think. I just sort of speak off the top of my head. (“IT”) When I taped the last therapy session, it was more to organize my thoughts than to hear Michael. I could care less what Michael has to say because I even think that there’s a bad Michael and a good Michael. Like there’s this whispery voice which I’ve mentioned to you a few times. It seems to being saying things that — if there’s a dark side of Michael, it’s the low-pitched, whispery voice. So it’s helping me. Everything is helping me.
P: Why was that helping you? To constantly look for his voices?
Q: I’m not constantly looking for his voices but it’s just that I can recognize some of the most frequent ones.
P: I’m just wondering in terms of you getting on with your life to something else.
Q: Well, I am.
P: You’re doing other things —
Q: Yeah.
P: — but you’re still thinking a lot about this.
Q: Well, you know what? This weekend I found a really valuable book that crystallized a lot of things that I had been thinking about. It was published in 1987. The name of it is Love’s Awakening by Dhara Star Zyir with Marilyn Painter. (“THIS”) On the cover it says, “How to contact your inner guidance and use it to change your life.” It’s out of print, though, because I was trying to get extra copies to give to my friends and couldn’t find them anywhere. It ends with the usual sentiments:
PRAISE TO THE CREATOR
OM
OM
Q: “OPEN YOUR HEART, TRUST YOUR INNER KNOWING, SURRENDER TO GOD’S WILL AND TAKE A RISK IN MOVING FORWARD ON YOUR SPIRITUAL PATH.” Some of the truths in the books are familiar ones: “GOD IS. . . . WE ARE A KALEIDOSCOPE OF CONSCIOUSNESS. . . .GOD CHOOSES THE HIEROPHANTS, NOT MAN. . . . FIND ME IN YOUR HEARTS. BE STILL AND KNOW THAT I AM. . . . FOCUS ON THE POSITIVE. PRAY, READ UPLIFTING LITERATURE, WATCH UPLIFTING MOVIES WHICH HAVE A HIGHER SPIRITUAL MESSAGE, LISTEN TO POSITIVE RADIO PROGRAMS AND MUSIC, AND ONLY ASSOCIATE WITH POSITIVE, OPTIMISTIC, AND SURRENDERED PEOPLE.” So this was very good for me.
P: Have you gone through the whole book?
Q: Yeah. Since this book is so important to me, I would like to read a few things to you and see what your take is on them.
P: Sure.
Q: Because I highlighted some of the parts. “We searched alone for the connection home . . .” This is talking about America since, I guess, the ’50s. ” . . . invented our own ritual to fill the emptiness. Religion seemed only a shadow . . . We knew reality was elsewhere and as children we spoke this truth in our innocence.” (“I HAVEN’T”) Did you ever see that Ingmar Bergman movie “The Ritual”?
P: No.
Q: It was symbolic. The three characters in this television drama represented the ego, the super-ego and the id.
P: Oh really? When was it released?
Q: “The Ritual” was first televised in Sweden in 1969. I saw it when I was a student at USC. I think it’s available on video. It seems right up your alley.
P: Um-huh.
Q: Anyway — ” . . . we denied the expression of our Selves, repressed the female aspect . . .” You know, some of these sentiments recall the messages of the ’60s ‘Love Generation’ but then it gets more specific: “IF YOU ARE READING THIS, YOU ARE BEING CALLED HOME. THE TIME HAS COME TO CLAIM YOUR INHERITANCE, YOUR BIRTHRIGHT. YOU HAVE DONE GOOD WORK, MY CHILD, —” This is a channeled book, by the way.
P: Oh yes. That’s what I thought. (“YEAH”)
Q: “— PREPARING THE WAY. AS YOU HAVE INCREASINGLY CLEARED OUT THE INTELLECTUAL AND EMOTIONAL BRAIN-WASHING THAT YOU HAVE COLLECTED DURING YOUR PERIOD OF EARTH EGO-INCARNATIONS, SO HAVE I FILLED YOU INCREASINGLY WITH MYSELF. . . . NOW THE WORLD AS YOU ALWAYS KNEW IT SHOULD BE IS HERE: A WORLD OF JOYOUS FRIENDS AND FAMILY, LOVE TIES, AND CREATIVE EXPRESSION IN YOUR DAILY WORK. . . . FOR EVERYONE IN HUMAN FORM, UNTIL THEY WAKE UP, REALITY IS FOCUSED ON SURVIVAL AND FLIGHT FROM PAIN AND FEAR. . . .THEY PRETEND TO BE SOPHISTICATED AND CIVILIZED BUT ACTUALLY IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS WHERE THEIR EGO TAPES ARE, EVERYONE IS A FRIGHTENED LITTLE CHILD FOCUSED ON ANIMAL SURVIVAL AND FEELING UNLOVED, UNWANTED AND UNCARED FOR. THESE FEELINGS, THIS EXPERIENCE, THIS FALSE REALITY ARE DENIED AND THEN PROJECTED OUT ONTO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ON THE CONCEPT OF THE ‘OTHERS.’ THE VICTIMS OF POVERTY, CRIME, THE HUNGRY, THE HOMELESS — THOSE ‘OTHERS’ LIVE IN AN UNLOVED WORLD BUT ‘I’ DON’T. . . . THE FLAVOR AND CONTENT OF THIS MONEY TAPE” — and then it goes into a specific example — “IS BASED ON YOUR FAMILY LIFE, YOUR CHILDHOOD TAPES, YOUR CULTURAL TAPES. AND THE TRUTH IS THAT MONEY IS A MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD JUST AS EVERYTHING IS, AND IT CAN BE USED CORRECTLY OR INCORRECTLY. IT CAN BE USED FOR THE WILL OF GOD OR IT CAN BE USED OUT OF SELF WILL. AND EVENTUALLY WE WON’T NEED IT. IT’S A TOOL.” What do you think so far?
P: I think it’s good.
Q: Good. Okay. “TRUE LIFE, TRUE EXPRESSION AND CREATIVITY, WHICH IS GOD, THREATENS THE EGO . . . THE EGO . . . WILL TELL YOU TO WORK FROM NINE TO FIVE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IN A JOB YOU DON’T LIKE, SAVE THE MONEY YOU’RE SO AFRAID SOMEONE WILL TAKE AWAY, GET OLD, BE MISTREATED, AND DIE.”
P: (small laugh)
Q: (small laugh) “THE WHOLE THOUGHT THAT NO ONE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU AND THAT YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR SURVIVAL IS EGO. THERE IS A LOVING GOD TO TAKE CARE OF YOU. . . . OF COURSE, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN YOUR LIFE IS A PERFECTLY PLANNED LESSON BY THE UNIVERSE TO HELP YOU RELEASE YOURSELF FROM YOUR BONDAGE AND TO RETURN HOME. THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS. THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES. EVERYTHING IS PERFECT. . . . WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING ON EARTH IS THE RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS AS PLANETARY STEWARD. YOU ARE LIVING —”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #18, SIDE #1 ENDS HERE.)
P: Have you gone through the whole book?
Q: Yeah. Since this book is so important to me, I would like to read a few things to you and see what your take is on them.
P: Sure.
Q: Because I highlighted some of the parts. “We searched alone for the connection home . . .” This is talking about America since, I guess, the ’50s. ” . . . invented our own ritual to fill the emptiness. Religion seemed only a shadow . . . We knew reality was elsewhere and as children we spoke this truth in our innocence.” (“I HAVEN’T”) Did you ever see that Ingmar Bergman movie “The Ritual”?
P: No.
Q: It was symbolic. The three characters in this television drama represented the ego, the super-ego and the id.
P: Oh really? When was it released?
Q: “The Ritual” was first televised in Sweden in 1969. I saw it when I was a student at USC. I think it’s available on video. It seems right up your alley.
P: Um-huh.
Q: Anyway — ” . . . we denied the expression of our Selves, repressed the female aspect . . .” You know, some of these sentiments recall the messages of the ’60s ‘Love Generation’ but then it gets more specific: “IF YOU ARE READING THIS, YOU ARE BEING CALLED HOME. THE TIME HAS COME TO CLAIM YOUR INHERITANCE, YOUR BIRTHRIGHT. YOU HAVE DONE GOOD WORK, MY CHILD, —” This is a channeled book, by the way.
P: Oh yes. That’s what I thought. (“YEAH”)
Q: “— PREPARING THE WAY. AS YOU HAVE INCREASINGLY CLEARED OUT THE INTELLECTUAL AND EMOTIONAL BRAIN-WASHING THAT YOU HAVE COLLECTED DURING YOUR PERIOD OF EARTH EGO-INCARNATIONS, SO HAVE I FILLED YOU INCREASINGLY WITH MYSELF. . . . NOW THE WORLD AS YOU ALWAYS KNEW IT SHOULD BE IS HERE: A WORLD OF JOYOUS FRIENDS AND FAMILY, LOVE TIES, AND CREATIVE EXPRESSION IN YOUR DAILY WORK. . . . FOR EVERYONE IN HUMAN FORM, UNTIL THEY WAKE UP, REALITY IS FOCUSED ON SURVIVAL AND FLIGHT FROM PAIN AND FEAR. . . .THEY PRETEND TO BE SOPHISTICATED AND CIVILIZED BUT ACTUALLY IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS WHERE THEIR EGO TAPES ARE, EVERYONE IS A FRIGHTENED LITTLE CHILD FOCUSED ON ANIMAL SURVIVAL AND FEELING UNLOVED, UNWANTED AND UNCARED FOR. THESE FEELINGS, THIS EXPERIENCE, THIS FALSE REALITY ARE DENIED AND THEN PROJECTED OUT ONTO OTHER PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ON THE CONCEPT OF THE ‘OTHERS.’ THE VICTIMS OF POVERTY, CRIME, THE HUNGRY, THE HOMELESS — THOSE ‘OTHERS’ LIVE IN AN UNLOVED WORLD BUT ‘I’ DON’T. . . . THE FLAVOR AND CONTENT OF THIS MONEY TAPE” — and then it goes into a specific example — “IS BASED ON YOUR FAMILY LIFE, YOUR CHILDHOOD TAPES, YOUR CULTURAL TAPES. AND THE TRUTH IS THAT MONEY IS A MANIFESTATION OF THE SPIRIT OF GOD JUST AS EVERYTHING IS, AND IT CAN BE USED CORRECTLY OR INCORRECTLY. IT CAN BE USED FOR THE WILL OF GOD OR IT CAN BE USED OUT OF SELF WILL. AND EVENTUALLY WE WON’T NEED IT. IT’S A TOOL.” What do you think so far?
P: I think it’s good.
Q: Good. Okay. “TRUE LIFE, TRUE EXPRESSION AND CREATIVITY, WHICH IS GOD, THREATENS THE EGO . . . THE EGO . . . WILL TELL YOU TO WORK FROM NINE TO FIVE FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE IN A JOB YOU DON’T LIKE, SAVE THE MONEY YOU’RE SO AFRAID SOMEONE WILL TAKE AWAY, GET OLD, BE MISTREATED, AND DIE.”
P: (small laugh)
Q: (small laugh) “THE WHOLE THOUGHT THAT NO ONE WILL TAKE CARE OF YOU AND THAT YOU HAVE TO FIGHT FOR YOUR SURVIVAL IS EGO. THERE IS A LOVING GOD TO TAKE CARE OF YOU. . . . OF COURSE, EVERYTHING THAT HAPPENS IN YOUR LIFE IS A PERFECTLY PLANNED LESSON BY THE UNIVERSE TO HELP YOU RELEASE YOURSELF FROM YOUR BONDAGE AND TO RETURN HOME. THERE ARE NO ACCIDENTS. THERE ARE NO COINCIDENCES. EVERYTHING IS PERFECT. . . . WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING ON EARTH IS THE RE-ESTABLISHMENT OF CHRIST CONSCIOUSNESS AS PLANETARY STEWARD. YOU ARE LIVING —”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TAPE #18, SIDE #1 ENDS HERE.)
