INTERVIEW — TAPE #1, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Gordon Russell (interviewer)
M: Maxine Mc Wethy (the mother)
T: Twyla Eller (daughter)
B: Brenda Bell (daughter)
K: Kim Carrell (daughter)
F: Marla Ward (nicknamed Fae; daughter, age 38)
R: Jerry Bell (grandson)
J: Billy Joe Mc Wethy (Maxine's stepson)
H: Heather Bell (Kim's daughter, age 11)
Y: Megan Eller (Twyla's daughter)
T: My mother has seen its hand.
M: I’ve grabbed a hold of him.
T: You can feel him but you just can’t see him.
Q: What does he feel like?
M: It felt like a big old wrist. I couldn’t even put my hands all the way around it.
Q: Did you feel fingers?
M: No. It was a wrist it felt like. He screamed so I turned him lose. He didn’t want nobody to help me grab him.
T: (laughs)
Q: The way the house is structured you don’t have any space in-between the outside walls and inside walls?
M: Uh-uh.
Q: You have the paneling but no hollow areas underneath or anything?
M: I’ve grabbed him twice.
T: Uh-huh.
M: And he gets up under the covers and you can see a head come up under the covers.
Q: A head?
M: You can’t see it.
T: It’s a tiny head.
Q: Like in the photo?
T: It’s a little alien-shaped head.
Q: Notice you said the word alien.
T: That’s what I think it is.
M: He tore the covers off of me and Twyla one night. We put them back. Then, he curled up under the covers.
J: What about that red cloud?
M: In Tupelo.
Q: Red cloud?
T: A whole bunch of us saw a huge red cloud.
Q: I’ve always wondered if poltergeist cases tied-in with extra-terrestrials.
T: I’ve heard people say that.
M: He said he was friends with ghosts, didn’t he?
T: He told us what it’s like on Saturn.
Q: What is Saturn like? I have to hear this. (laughs) It’s probably going to be true.
T: I remember he said it was real hot. That’s why when we first came here he was cold all the time. And he says there is water there.
Q: That’s what I read recently. It has water.
T: And they have businesses there. They have a big McAlien’s, which is like McDonald’s. (“NO”)
Q: (laughs) I love it. This would be a great movie. The humor is great.
M: The girls work at McAlien’s.
T: We’d be sent to the crazy farm.
Q: The fact that it’s so crazy suggests to me that it’s true because if you wanted to lie you wouldn’t think of something so outlandish. But most people don’t understand that.
T: That’s true.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS A NOISE FROM THE LIVING ROOM THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING HAS FALLEN OVER.)
T: What’s Megan doing?
M: I don’t know but they’re all trying to wake him up.
T: Let’s see.
Q: They’re so funny. Kids.
M: Eric was doing it too.
K: Yes, I know.
Q: Eric was? I mean, kids are always —
K: He was trying to wake him up. Both of them were.
T: I can’t do everything.
M: We tried to get him to bring us some McAlien burgers. (laughs)
T: We had the rocks that he threw at us analyzed and they said they were lava rocks. And there shouldn’t be no lava rocks around here. They had a lot of iron ore in them. They were magnetic.
Q: Were they hot when you first touched it?
T: Yes.
M: Everything is warm.
T: The pennies are hot —
Q: That’s exactly what happens.
T: — or they’re freezing cold.
Q: This is textbook stuff.
H: Can I take Megan outside?
T: Will you watch her? Go on. Don’t let her get out in the road.
Q: Do you think there’s a hollow area underneath the house?
M: Don’t let them boys get in with her.
T: Underneath the foundation or — probably. Why?
Q: There could be something running around in there.
K: Better watch Shane though.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ATTRIBUTED SQUEAKING SOUNDS HEARD ON TAPES ARE THE FRONT DOOR.)
Q: I don’t know. I’m just thinking. That’s one of the possibilities.
T: You spook me. (laughs) (“OH GOSH”)
K: He knows about a lot of that darn stuff.
T: He’s always in the attic.
Q: I’m trying to figure out what it is.
T: The attic is his house.
Q: That’s what I meant when I said hollow spaces.
M: I’ll tell you something funny. Me, Twyla and Brenda were in there one night and all of a sudden that attic door just flew open. There were two of them fighting like cats and dogs.
Q: Two of them? Two what?
M: Whatever. (laughs)
Q: Oh my God.
M: And we asked them what they were fighting over. And they said, “WE’RE FIGHTING OVER BRENDA.”
Q: I wish they would explain themselves a little better.
M: I do too but you can’t get nothing out of them.
R: Yeah. All this stuff.
Q: In the Bell case they said, “Show us where you come in.” (“AND”) The whole section of the ceiling raised two feet up and then down.
T: Oh gosh.
Q: And they said that’s how they’re getting in. Who knows if that was true.
T: It throws eggs but the refrigerator door never opens. He don’t need to have the refrigerator door open.
Q: He would drain their whole dairy. They had a dairy room. They would go in and all the milk would be gone.
M: He threw all of our eggs at us one time. All over the place.
Q: Was he angry about something?
K: No. That’s just the way he plays, I guess.
M: And he threw every one of them at us. We told him if he wanted to throw another egg he’d have to go over to the neighbor’s. I guess he did. Another one hit. He was gone a few seconds and then he came back and threw another one. (“OW”)
T: He egged my husband in the head. (laughs) That was funny.
M: He asked for that.
Q: What did he say?
M: He asked Michael.
T: Yeah, he did.
M: He said, “Throw an egg at me, Michael.”
T: And he did.
M: The back of his hair was just dripping with it. (laughs)
Q: You’re right. He did ask for it.
M: One time I was standing over by the sink and all of a sudden a egg hit me right in the back of the head.
T: (laughs)
M: She was standing there leaning over that keg (“I WAS”) just dying laughing and all of a sudden she got one.
T: Right in the temple and it hurt. I didn’t laugh no more.
M: (laughs) I died laughing.
T: It’s so funny. It hurts but it’s so funny.
M: It hurts.
K: That’s one thing you don’t do is laugh at somebody.
T: He took your bra and strung it across the room from nail to nail.
M: A pair of pantyhose.
T: Pantyhose. (laughing)
M: He had the legs —
Q: Oh my god.
K: — hanging to the wall.
T: He’s had diarrhea.
M: You can hear that too. (“YEAH”)
T: He ran through the house with the door open and you could hear, feel air —
M: He took a big old box of Epson salts up in the attic.
T: I guess he drank it or something.
M: We came back from Tupelo and he said, “HURRY MAXINE I GOT DIARRHEA.” And we came in here and I said, “Let’s go in the living room.” (“UH-UH”) Going to the bathroom something was going —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE MAKES A DUCK-LIKE HAWKING SOUND.)
T: They have webbed feet. They have webbed feet.
Q: How do you know that?
T: There was a speech teacher here. Me and her were here. Mama hadn’t gotten here yet. He moved the table and when he did it spilled a bunch of coffee. And it was just a little puddle because the floor’s uneven. I was over here cleaning it up and she just screamed, “Oh my God.” I said, “What?” She saw feet marks. It was running all the way over there but there were webbed feet marks. Webbed like a duck’s.
M: In front of the speech teacher.
T: She said, “It’s webbed feet.” And I said, “Well, I’m sorry but I didn’t do it.” I mean, there was nobody else in here but me and her.
J: I heard her say that.
B: I did too.
T: It was awful. It was funny. (“LIP”) Man, it’s a duck. That’s what it is. A duck. (laughs)
Q: On one hand we have the very human behavior and dialogue. On the other hand, we have the aliens and there are multiple things (“UH-HUH”) like fighting and — (“WHATEVER”)
T: That’s why it don’t make sense.
Q: It doesn’t make sense.
T: None of it.
M: I hope it’s never one of them ducks we used to have out here.
T: “Howard the Duck.”
M: We used to have a yard full of them.
Q: It could assume the form of a duck. Who knows?
T: Oh yeah.
Q: When you think about it.
T: You said they could form into them.
B: Tell him about the time I was in the house and you seen me out there.
M: You tell it. I can’t —
B: You’re the one that seen it.
Q: Did you see an animal or something?
M: No, I saw her out there and she was in the house.
Q: That’s what we were talking about earlier.
B: You seen me outside of the room that I was in.
Q: It can assume the form of different people. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: Like the first time I heard Sue come in here and talk.
B: Tell him about that.
T: Sue was supposed to come get Brenda one night. I went to bed and I heard Sue come in and say, “Brenda, I’m sorry I was late. I had a flat tire. Steve had to change it.” So I thought Brenda had left. I come back in here an hour, thirty minutes later to get some — I said, “Didn’t Sue come get you?” She said, “No, she’s late.” I said, “Brenda, I just heard her come in and say she had a flat.” Ten minutes later, she got here. She’d had a flat and was apologizing. It was like the house recorded the whole conversation. It was playing it before it happened. Remember, you told Sue and it scared her.
M: She’s real scared.
T: She’d already been here and said that.
Q: It was like hearing it replayed or something?
T: Yeah. I could hear them both in here talking: “Brenda, I’m sorry. I had a flat. Steve had to change it.”
M: That was weird.
T: “We got into a fight.”
Q: Before? (“UH-HUH”)
B: She told me about it before.
T: Before she even came over and did it I told her.
Q: The voices were perfect?
T: Yes, it was Sue and it was Brenda.
Q: This parallels pretty well with some other cases.
T: It scared me. It already happened. I said, “Brenda, I heard you already. I heard Sue already get here and say she was late. ‘Sorry, I’m late. I had a flat.'” And then she wasn’t here yet. Then, later on she did come out: “I’m sorry, Brenda. I had a flat. Steve had to change it.”
Q: Oh my God.
T: The same exact words.
Q: What do you think about that?
M: I don’t know.
B: It scared me.
T: That scared you too, didn’t it? It was scary.
B: Yeah, it did.
Q: So it was warning you maybe. It was telling you this was going to happen.
B: You could have a murder, I guess. (“YEAH”) Q: If it ever says anything like “Don’t go someplace” — (“YEAH”) I think I would listen to it. (“YEAH”) (laughs) You know? (“THAT HAPPENS”)
M: That’s right. Michael told me one time he was with us—me and Bill—when we had that wreck (“HE’LL DIE”) in the tow truck.
Q: He was with you?
M: Somebody ran into us. I got glass still coming out of my head.
Q: Do you think he helped a little bit?
M: He might have. (“I HAD BLOOD”) I had blood running out of my head all the way down to the ground.
Q: Now isn’t it funny? Where I come from, the freeways are jam-packed with people and there aren’t accidents. Here, there are wide open spaces and there are accidents. I don’t get it.
T: It’s weird. (“IT’S SCARY”)
Q: Well, there are a lot of accidents there too but (“BUT I’M”) I’m just trying to figure out what is going on. You have Michael and you have these other personalities, webbed feet, fighting in the attic. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: One time he got kidnaped from the cemetery. Michael got kidnaped out of the car. My car door opened.
Q: Kidnaped?
T: It flew open.
M: He wanted to go to the cemetery.
T: And he was gone.
Q: Do you think he just got out?
T: He said later the bad spirits got him. Me and a bunch of other kids had to go over there and get him back.
M: We heard him way off in the woods out there hollering, “HELP ME. HELP ME.”
Q: Oh my God.
T: I think it’s the town. I think it’s the town.
M: This worried us. We just wanted to cry.
Q: Do you think he might have been teasing you?
M: I don’t know.
Q: He might have been putting on a little play act.
M: He’s scared to death of them spirits over here at the cemetery.
T: Remember when he was in the corner hunched down screaming for Josh to do something. (“NO”)
Q: That is exactly what happened in the Bell Witch case.
M: Is that right?
Q: Because there was this still and the bad spirits would always be at the still. Their names were Blackdog, Cypocryphy, Mathematics and Jerusalem.
M: Well, this is John the Child Killer. Michael’s scared to death —
T: John Hathaway.
M: (overlapping) Hathaway.
Q: That’s one of the bad spirits?
T: An older man told me there was an orphanage here where kids died when it burned down. (“OH”)
Q: God. There’s enough here for ten movies.
T: She digs up spoons in the yard that have been burnt. (“YEAH”)
M: I’m looking for that spoon.
Q: Do you frequently find things missing?
T: There’s always something missing.
Q: Constantly?
T: Or they’ll be at my house. He’ll take it to my house. And stuff from my house will be brought down here. (“UM-HUH”) Pants. (“NO”) Money.
Q: When you heard Michael earlier was it having a conversation from someplace else in the room?
T: No, it’s right here.
Q: Here?
T: It’s here.
Q: It’s probably just as interested in this as we are.
M: This spoon with an H on it was thrown in here in the kitchen. I said, “I’ve never seen it before.” (“NO”) We figured out it might stand for Hathaway.
T: (overlapping) Hathaway.
M: That’s John the child-killer.
Q: Isn’t that’s unbelievable. That is so freaky.
M: I’ve never had a spoon like that.
T: I hope he does something. I hope he goes crazy. I hope he tears up the place right now. I wish he’d do it.
K: Something happen a while ago? (“NO”)
T: We heard him.
M: He’s got it on tape.
Q: John Hathaway. So Michael’s afraid of him and the bad spirits?
M: He’s scared to death of them.
Q: Who are some of the other people?
M: I don’t know.
Q: (about the spoon) This reminds me of Uri Geller who can bend spoons or something.
T: Oh yeah.
Q: I don’t think he’s legitimate.
T: I don’t either. (“BUT”)
Q: But some people do.
T: With his mind. (“HE’S BEEN”)
Q: He’s been caught fabricating some things but still you wonder. I know people who met him and say that he can bend them just by rubbing them. (“HUH”) Keep that spoon in your file. That’s hilarious. (“YEAH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WHEN I WAS A TALENT AGENT I INTERACTED WITH NANCY KULP WHOSE CHARACTER IN “THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES” WAS NAMED JANE HATHAWAY.)
K: Tell him about the night you and Frieda went to town.
M: He wanted me to take him to the cemetery and he said he didn’t want Twyla to go. He didn’t want her in on it. (“YEAH”)
Q: Interesting.
M: I said, “Michael, I’m not going to the cemetery by myself with you.” (laughs) And then he said, “WELL TAKE ME TO TUPELO TO THE BALL PARK. MY PEOPLE ARE WAITING.” I picked up my neighbor and we went down there. She had to get a can of gas so she went with me. We started back and something landed on top of the car. You could just barely hear it and there was a little motorized sound. (“HUH”) When we got into Centrahoma we both heard it. We got into town up here and then you couldn’t hear it any more. That was strange.
T: I can tell him from birds and anything else now because I’ve been around him so long. And one time he fixed it where I could not hear him.
M: He did.
T: I could not hear nothing. Mother, Brenda and everybody would hear it. I said, “Mama, ask him why he did it.” He said it was causing me too many problems. But it was only like that for a couple days.
M: He was making her where she couldn’t hear it.
Q: Because it was causing her too many problems? (“YEAH”)
T: Because people think I’m doing it with my mind.
M: Everybody blames her (“RIGHT”) for doing it.
T: Or I’m ‘into witchcraft.’
Q: There might be something there where you are the — what’s the word for it? Focus. No. There’s another word for it.
T: Mediator. Something like that. (“NO”)
Q: I don’t know why I can’t think of it right now.
T: Agent.
M: That’s what that guy said: “She was the agent of it.”
T: They think it could be psychic (“RIGHT”) ability. (“GOSH I’VE HEARD IT ALL”) ‘Witchcraft.’
M: They tried to get her to — they sat right here and told her if she —
T: Oh, that’s weird. You’ve got to listen to this. (“MAKE”) Out there in the cemetery they said, “Twyla, concentrate. Make — help me, help me.” They make me think I’m just crazy. Well, I did. I sat there. I wanted to do something so bad. I said, “Michael, if you love me throw a rock.” He did. But when I was sitting there concentrating they made me do it for like twenty minutes. “Just sit there and do this.” That’s when this trailer they had out here started — (“YOU KNOW”) bad things started happening to that trailer when I was (“DOWN HERE”) a mile across town. They did it to me in here again. They said, “Twyla, think of something.” They said, “Anything.”
Q: Who was doing this?
M: LMNO.
T: They wanted me to see if I could do something. (“THEY”) And those boys out there ran in here screaming, hollering. They said something walked up to their trailer and was going (snaps fingers) like this. (“SEE”) It makes me think that maybe they do — (“HE KNOWS IT”)
Q: I think Michael knows what’s going on so — he wants to (“DANCE”) — intends to meet your questions but not meet their questions. Do you ever feel like you’re the real ‘Carrie?’ (small laugh)
T: The real what?
Q: “Carrie.” That famous Sissy Spacek movie?
T: Oh yeah. (“IT’S LIKE”) They brought that (“YOU”) stupid movie up.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SEVERAL UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS, INCLUDING SPIRIT WHISPERING, OVERLAPPING, CAN BE HEARD ON THIS SECTION OF TAPE.)
T: I hated that movie. (“WHO”)
Q: Who brought that up?
T: LMNO.
Q: It’s similar.
T: I’d be rich if I could do that.
Q: Telekinesis.
M: They offered her a $30,000 car if she could make something move with her mind.
T: A Lexus. They first said, “Be honest.”
Q: That would definitely get great (“GOOD”) ratings.
M: She tried but — (laughs)
T: I thought, “Damn, I’m going to bust my head open.”
Q: (small laugh)
M: (laughs)
T: I tried. (“WELL SEE”)
Q: Yeah. (“WELL”) In terms of doing justice to the story, it means remembering and going over. Much like we’re doing (“UM-HUH”) to try to get as much remembered as possible. Can I look around?
M: You sure can but don’t look at my house.
Q: I know, I know, I know.
T: Nobody cares about your house.
M: Help yourself. (“OH GOOD GRIEF”)
Q: Maybe I’ll take a picture of the attic. I have one of these dumb little Kodak cameras. I don’t know if it will work very well. I’ve never had one before. Have you ever used these?
T: Those instant throwaways? Those are good. They are.
Q: I’ll try it. (“YOU JUST”) I went to film school and it was such a bad experience. (“NO”) I sort of have a mental block about cameras after that. (“OH”) Ever since then I’ve felt like I don’t want to (“OH”) have anything to do with technology.
M: He steals money from me. (“WHAT ACCOUNT OH”) He asked me here one Saturday night — (“OF COURSE HE WOULD”)
T: He steals a lot of money.
M: — a while back. He asked me if he could borrow a $20 and I said, “Michael, I’ve got bills to pay. I can’t afford it.” So when she left (“I DON’T WANT TO HEAR IT”) the next morning my (“DOLL”) $20 —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I AM SHOWN ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH.)
Q: Look at this.
T: That all got thrown in one day. (“YEAH”)
Q: That’s one day? Oh, my goodness.
T: Pennies, rocks, bolts, nuts, screws.
Q: That’s a great photo. (“LOOK AT THAT”) Oh my God. Look at — are those nails?
T: Yeah. Old nails like they come out of a house.
Q: The classic nails and pins.
T: I think it’s the first thing they can pick up. It’s what’s laying around. (“ROCKS”) Rocks.
Q: There’s something more to it than that.
T: We’ve had hundreds of people get pinned in the butt. In their place. (“WELL”)
Q: There was one case where (“A PIN”) in a dark room a pin —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A WEATHER-BOARDED RESIDENCE IN NORTH TEDWORTH, ENGLAND BECAME THE SETTING FOR MANY STRANGE EVENTS IN 1661. THE OWNER, JOHN MUMPESSON, WROTE ABOUT ONE CHRISTMAS EVE INCIDENT INVOLVING HIS SON: “A PIN OF THE LATCH OF THE DOOR WAS PULLED OUT AND THE DOOR THROWN OPEN. THE LATCH HIT THE BOY DIRECTLY IN SORE PLACE ON HIS HEEL AND MADE HIM CRY OUT. ONE WOULD WONDER HOW SUCH A LITTLE PIN COULD BE FOUND OUT IN THE NIGHT.”)
T: Marbles.
Q: This is major. (“COME GET”)
M: I’m going to go to town. I got a check to cash, anyway. (“YOU JUST”)
Q: Maybe I’ll look around with Twyla while you’re gone.
M: You just make yourself at home.
Q: I want to see the attic, maybe.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TWYLA AND I GO TO THE WOOD PANEL THAT COVERS THE ENTRANCE TO THE ATTIC.)
T: Look through here. Move it there. (“I HOPE THIS WAS THE PART”) You have to push it up.
Q: So this is where they were fighting that time.
T: Yeah.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I GASP WHEN I SEE AN INSECT AS I BEGIN TO REMOVE THE PANEL.)
Q It was a little animal or something.
T: (small laugh)
Q: Oh look. Oh my God. It’s so hot in here.
T: Uh-huh.
Q: Jesus.
T: What?
Q There was an insect.
T: Is Saturn this hot?
Q: Huge spider.
T: I wonder if it likes that. There were blankets and stuff. Our neighbors made him blankets and stuff but I think my mom threw them away.
Q: I’m scared of spiders.
T: You need me to do it? You need me to take a picture?
Q: Yeah. Why don’t you do it? You know how to use these? Charge the flash and just push it here. And hold it down until the light comes on.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS TO CRY.)
(“UH-OH”)
T: Do it right now?
Q: Yeah.
T: Push it back? (“WAIT — WAIT”)
Q: Did you charge it or (“WHAT ABOUT”) do you want me to —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I INDICATE MY CONCERN ABOUT MEGAN AS TWYLA HANDS ME THE CAMERA TO PREPARE.)
T: She’s fine. She cries all the time.
Q: It says hold until ready light comes on. Where is the ready light? Oh, there it is. Okay, aim. Set your subject in the view finder. It’s supposed to be four to ten feet only. And shoot. This attic is the main — (“I THINK I’LL TAKE ANOTHER ONE”)
T: You want another photo?
Q: Maybe on the other side or —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A PENNY DROPS OUT OF THE EMPTY ATTIC AND WE BOTH GASP.)
T: He’s up there.
Q: He’s up there. He is. I know.
T: Oh, my God. I’m shaking. What did he throw?
Q: A penny it sounded like.
T: We got to find it. (“HERE LOOK”) What could he do with it before? (“YEAH”) Look, Megan.
Q: It dropped over there.
T: Where is it?
Q: Maybe he took it back?
T: Oh, my gosh. Look here. There are big old wasps.
Q: That’s what I saw.
T: Huge.
Q: Maybe that’s him. (laughs) (“YOU KNOW”)
T: You can go up there and take a look. (“OH MY GOSH”)
Q: But they don’t want to believe it, you know?
T: They come up with so much. Megan, bring him his chair.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WE RETURN TO THE DINING ROOM AFTER REPLACING THE ATTIC PANEL.)
Q: But see? That’s the — (“BUT”) but thank you Megan — but the funny thing is that we really don’t know what is going on and it could easily be in the form of an animal or something living up there.
T: What about my mom talking to you? She said “It’s up here, I think.”
Y: Mama. I want candy.
Q: It could assume the form of one but I don’t think it would be one.
T: You mean like a big rat or something?
Q: Yeah. Something. Makes sense.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS UNATTRIBUTED TAPE INTERFERENCE ACCOMPANYING THE SOUND OF AN OBJECT STRIKING THE WALL.)
Q: What was that? (“I DON’T KNOW”)
T: Tossed a rock. You see? The doors are all shut. There’s nobody here but me and you. (“NO”) You didn’t have a peeing fit as I figured.
Y: Candy. I want Candy. I want Candy.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TWYLA LOOKS FOR THE OBJECT.)
T: Either he got it back or something because it’s gone. I don’t feel it.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: DURING AN INTERVIEW HIATUS I TAKE SOME PHOTOS OF THE HOUSE AND YARD. AFTER I RETURN INSIDE AND SIT DOWN, A NAIL STRIKES THE BACK OF MY HEAD AND THEN FALLS TO THE FLOOR. OUCH, THAT HURT!)
T: Did a nail hit you?
Q: A nail hit me in the head. (“SO”) Thank you, Michael. I took photos of those little houses outside. What are they called? Those little storage sheds?
T: Sheds. My sister lives in one of them. One of them’s a room. The other one is full of a lot of stuff.
Q: Does he ever go there? Michael?
T: He basically goes wherever I go. Most of the time. I don’t understand why he picked me or anything.
Q: Well, you know, just — I’m glad we’re talking about this now when your mom’s not here. People have theorized that some form of child abuse leads to it.
T: I was going to tell you while my mom was gone that my dad that died, Carlton Bell, is not my real dad. He’s not even Brenda’s either. He’s Kim, Marla’s and my brother’s dad. And my dad — my mom told me about it. Carlton was a real bad alcoholic. And don’t tell my mama because she would be so embarrassed.
Q: No, I won’t.
T: He used to make her do things and she got pregnant with me because of one of the things he made her do. My real father is a well-known rapist. And (“UM-HUH”) I don’t see — I mean I wouldn’t do to him what —
Q: But what you said (“OH”) — when he made her do certain things you mean with someone else?
T: Um-huh. In my home, he was — it feels strange to talk about it and she wouldn’t want nobody to know but —
Y: Pop!
T: — he played cards and he was an alcoholic and he made her sleep with his friends to get him more alcohol. And one of his alcohol buddies was my father. She got pregnant with me and she’s embarrassed but it’s the past. Don’t worry about it. She’s never treated me any different though.
Q: But you, yourself, have never been abused? Or have you?
T: Yeah.
Q: By who? There’s that wasp behind you.
T: Michael, you better go away. (laughs)
Q: Shall I open the door? Oh no. We don’t want it to get warm in here. But I don’t want to kill it. It might be the spirit and then I’d really be in trouble.
T: (laughs) Kill Michael.
Q: Oh God.
T: You want me to kill it?
Q: No.
T: I’ll slam that wasp. (laughs)
Q: I wanted us to catch it and then put it outside.
T: Catch it. Yeah, right. (laughs)
Q: With cardboard or something. Let me open the door and maybe it’ll fly out.
T: A lot of times they’ll do that.
Q: Whoops. See, that’ll take care of it. We don’t want to leave the door open long because it’s so hot.
T: Alright.
Q: Oh good.
T: There he goes. Yeah.
Q: Acts of aggression could play a role in the phenomena.
T: Why? I believe you but I just don’t know what to do and what not to do.
Q: Some believed the other Bell case began because the father of the family was shooting at a strange animal that he saw near some corn rows. (“OH MY GOSH”)
T: Oh my gosh.
Q: In terms of your abuse what exactly has happened?
T: It won’t be brought up or anything? (“NO”)
Q: Not unless you give me permission.
T: My stepfather is the one.
Q: Your stepfather.
T: Is it always? He molested us girls. All the step girls. I can’t believe it. He molested his own children.
Q: You mean Bill? Bill? (“NO”)
T: And the guy that came in with the long beard — that’s his son.
Q Who?
T: Billy Joe. That’s my stepfather’s son and he molested us too. (“YEAH”)
Q: You notice that he’s the one getting punished.
T: He got ran off one night by a rock. (“RIGHT”) It’s almost like it attacked him.
Q: I meant Bill’s disorder.
T: Um-huh.
Q: That’s what I had known right away just from looking at the other cases. There seems to be a reason why he was the one.
T: LMNO asked me about it and I didn’t want it spread all over the world. And I knew they would probably do it.
Q: But I knew before you even told me. That’s part of the usual case. You’re smart for not telling them. (“UH-HUH”)
T: I don’t know what to tell them and what not to. I just don’t trust anybody.
Q: That’s why you should have an attorney look at these things before you sign anything.
T: Yeah.
Q: I don’t know if they’ve been fair with you.
T: I think $7,000 was a little bit cheap myself but it wasn’t about money. It was about people.
Q: What did they buy for $7,000? (“WHY”)
T: Our life story just about.
Q: In order for them to get your life story you would have to cooperate with them. Do you understand what I’m saying?
T: Yeah, I know, but they told us anything that —
Q: Are they buying your identity and your right to tell your story? (“YEAH”) If you don’t feel like they’re treating you fairly feel free to say no.
T: What can we do now, though? We signed.
Q: Just don’t cooperate with them. Don’t tell them anything.
T: Really?
Q: Yeah.
Y: That bug.
Q: What?
Y: That bug.
Q: I don’t know what you’re saying. She doesn’t talk very well yet.
T: She’s not even two yet.
Q: She’s learning.
Y: Mama.
T: (to Megan) What do you want? A chip?
Q: Does Michael ever speak around your husband? I guess not.
T: Not really.
Q: He’d be handy to have around, I guess. (laughs)
T: Yeah, he is.
Q: In terms of Bill’s abuse, did he have sex with you? As a child?
T: No. Thank God.
Q: He didn’t go all the way.
T: He would just fondle us and make love to me. Like furniture.
Q: How old were you?
T: About five. Later on I talked to my sisters about it and they said, “Yeah, he did that to us too.”
Q: It’s enough to make you really wonder.
T: It’s sick.
Q: There are just so many different elements.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE ATTRIBUTED SOUND HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE IS OF MY CHAIR MOVING AS I SEE ANOTHER WASP.)
Q: Whoops, there’s another one. I’ll open the door. I think we let them out when we opened the attic door. (“OH”) I hope it will come out. Maybe you should leave the door open and then I’ll run this way. Come on out. Come on. This isn’t going to work because the other one’s going to come back in.
T: Those black ones there don’t bite.
Q: (to Megan) Stay inside. T: Come on, Megan.
Q: It’s very hot out there. They do not want to go outside.
T: You’re good with kids. You need some.
Q: Yeah, well.
T: You don’t want to have kids?
Q: Of course, but I’m a firm believer that you have to have both parents really participating in bringing up the child. (“YEAH”)
T: It’s hard. (“RIGHT”)
Q: So I guess first I have to find the ‘right’ person. (“OH”) Having children isn’t the main thing in a relationship. I, myself, was sort of abused as a child.
T: Everybody is. Every kid.
Q: I wouldn’t call it abuse but my parents would fight and there was alcoholism.
T: That’s abuse. (“YOU KNOW”) Even neglect to me is abuse.
Q: I think the word is overused too much but — (“UH-HUH”)
T: At least, I don’t remember it because I was too small.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I AM AT THE DOOR WAITING FOR A CHANCE TO LET THE SECOND WASP OUT.)
Q: I’ll wait until it comes back out. (“OH”) Here it comes. Okay.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I OPEN THE DOOR.)
Q: Is it coming? Okay. (MEOW)
T: He’s moved back to the light.
Q Well.
Y: He’s a bug. (“L”)
Q: I don’t want to kill it. (“YEAH”)
T: You have wasps in California, don’t you?
Q: Yeah, but they don’t come inside.
Y: Killing a bug.
T: Oh really?
Y: A bug.
Q: They’re not this big either.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE AND BRENDA RETURN.)
T: Welcome back, Mama.
M: Hi, everybody.
T: Megan’s trying to kill me.
M: Come on bug.
T: He’s scared of wasps.
B: You would never believe it. It’s back in my pocket. (“I’LL HELP YOU”)
M: My goodness.
Q: There are some wasps that got inside.
T: (laughs) He’s scared of wasps.
Q: One of them is still inside.
M: It’s hotter than hades out there.
Q: It is. My God.
M: Getting hotter. It’s supposed to be 103 in certain areas. (“OH”)
B: Three days. (“YEAH”)
( . . . )
T: I seen that on “20/20” the other night. This lady had people screaming in her head. She’d hear a voice in her head telling her to die and to eat (“SHH”) — he’d say, “Eat S – H – I – T and die” over and over.
B: It’s sad. (“BUT IT’S”)
T: It’s something about the brain.
Y: Mom, I need pop.
B: If I heard one of those, I’d want to slit my wrists.
Q: Joan of Arc heard voices that led her.
T: Really? (“MY MAN”)
Q: And apparently — well, this is sort of weird too because the voice told her a secret that she told the king and it was something nobody else could possibly know. (“HMMM” “OH”) So you’re lucky you don’t hear voices, anyway. (“YEAH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS FROM THE BELL WITCH: A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT BY CHARLES BAILEY BELL, M.D. IN HIS BOOK, HE COMPARES JOAN OF ARC WITH BETSY BELL, QUOTING GUIZOT; ALAN CHARTIER; AND M. WALLON.)
When about thirteen years of age, she began hearing voices, telling her she could free her country and crown Charles king. These voices she described and told what was said; she told Charles that she knew a prayer which he had made, some years before, and repeated it to him. He knew no one had ever heard the prayer, so was convinced of Joan’s mission and divine aid. . . . she claimed when a young girl to have heard voices of angels directing her to deliver France from its enemies; that she so delivered France through divine directions, and only erred when, after repeated urging, she continued in the army after her work was completed.
M: I used to have a different pair of glasses. Michael used to say I looked like a cat in them. He hasn’t said anything about these.
T: If I had to get glasses those are the ones I’d get. (she indicates my sunglasses) (“I LIKE THOSE” “I”)
M: I’ve got cataracts. When it first got started he brought a big blanket and put it in there. And they slept on that. A woman in Tupelo made him a red pillow. She asked them what color of pillow he wanted and he told her. (“YEAH”) Yeah.
Q: Do you think it stays up there in the attic? When it’s around do you feel like an electro-magnetic —
T: Yeah.
M: That’s what he said.
T: That’s the way he felt. One of the producers was sitting here and he felt something like electricity around his legs. (“YEAH”) Then, they asked me if I ever got shocked a lot. (“MAYBE”)
Q: I’d like to see it in person, though.
M: That lamp used to shock us. It shocked me and Brenda when we went over and turned it on. (“WELL”) Michael turned that lamp off and on one night. We were sitting in here and he turned it off. Brenda said, “Oh turn it on.” “YEAH, I KNOW. SCREW YOU TOO BRENDA. WE CAN SIT IN THE DARK.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: FAMILY MEMBERS CAN BE HEARD LAUGHING ON THE TAPE HERE.)
B: What’s a little dark?
M: To getting killed.
Q: Now it’s getting mellower.
B: I think that’s exactly what he’s doing.
Q: Has anyone ever gone against what it says? (“HELL YEAH”)
B: Bill has. He went in there and turned it off.
Q: And what happened to him?
B: Nothing.
M: (to Megan) Honey, I don’t have any pop. You want some tea?
Q: That’s good.
B: I want a little bit.
Q: His bark is worse than his bite.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MARLA, NICKNAMED FAE AND DESIGNATED ‘F,’ ENTERS.)
B: There she is.
M: That’s the one you were talking to, Mark.
Q: Hi.
F: Hi.
Q: Nice meeting you.
F: You too.
B: Marla. (“OOOHHHH”)
T: Fae. Know what I mean?
Q: Call her Fae?
J: She’s called Fae.
M: They went in there to the attic a while ago and a penny hit. (“YOU KNOW”) A nail hit him.
Q: A nail hit me later on. It’s right here.
M: I wish people would clean up their mess just when they make a mess. Look here.
T: I don’t know who did that. I got a piece of tomato but I didn’t cut it up.
M: I think Kim was making a sandwich in the sink.
T: She’s the one that did it then.
B: Kim is going to have to start cleaning her own things.
Q: What we’re talking about encompasses so many different elements. Like the visits in the cemetery.
T: We do that all the time. Stay here tonight and we’ll go to the cemetery.
Q: What happens when you stay at the cemetery?
T: Sometimes nothing but sometimes its bad.
Q: Is that where the bad spirits are?
T: Yeah.
Q: At the cemetery? (“YEAH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ERIC BRINGS IN A BUSINESS CARD FROM OUTSIDE THAT I HAD SEEN PINNED TO THE WALL SOON AFTER I ARRIVED.)
E: . . . a straight pin.
M: This was hanging right here.
E: Remember? We found —
M: Ohh. He found this outside just now.
Q: Oh my God.
M: It was hanging up there a while ago.
T: Who had it? (laughs) Let’s play baseball with it.
K: Oh gosh.
M: That’s a work number for that security guard woman that used to come out here when LMNO was here.
Q: Did you ever — (“LIKE”) what is the nail that it threw at me? I don’t know where it came from.
M: Just now?
Q: No, a while ago.
T: It hit him on the head.
Q: Where did it come from?
M: We got nails around here.
J: He probably took it off of one of the fields.
T: He’s slowly taking them from out of the house. (laughs)
Q: This will be my lucky nail.
M: This was hanging right here a while ago because I saw it. (“OH NO”)
Q: I bet it has a lot of pennies up there. It threw a penny at me. (“YEAH”) Wouldn’t it be funny if someday you go up there and there are, like, a million dollars in pennies?
M: Yeah.
Q: (laughs) (“YEAH”)
M: I wish I could find all the money he got from me. (“YEAH”) And Twyla.
Q: Did you ask him to give it back?
M: Yeah, but he won’t do it.
Q: He’s probably spent it somewhere.
M: He said he was collecting rent.
T: That wasp won’t be able to fly no more. (laughs)
Q: Collecting rent. Do you think he lived here at one time?
M: He owes me rent. I don’t owe him.
T: That’s what I told you. The kitchen was added on from another house. An old house. (SH)
Q: Do you think that’s what he meant?
M: I don’t know what to think.
T: I don’t know.
Q: He says everything. So many different things. I’m going to have to figure this out.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I STUDY THE BUSINESS CARD THAT WAS BROUGHT INSIDE.)
Q: Now that was hanging here and then it was found outside. (“I TOOK IT”) That’s really very, very strange.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I SHOW THE FAMILY A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT / THE BELL WITCH OF TENNESSEE BY CHARLES BAILEY BELL [A DESCENDENT] / HARRIET PARKS MILLER.)
Q: By the way, this is one of the books that came out about the Bell Witch.
T: Cool. (“YOU”)
Q: You can get them anywhere. They’re not valuable.
K: That’s about something like this, isn’t it?
Q: These are in public domain. (“YEAH AND ANOTHER THING — THAT WAS”) This is one of the books that was published.
F: That might have been a brochure.
B: I wonder what his book will be.
M: Who?
B: Michael’s. (“YOU’RE WRITING A BOOK” “YEAH — WHY”)
M: You’re daggum right. (“OH IT”)
K: We’ve never done a book without Daddy. Why should we write some of it and not let him do it? (“DAMN”)
T: He don’t want us to be that way.
Q: Here’s my manuscript that I finished right before I read about your case.
T: My gosh.
Q: The first part is about Julia Pastrana. Did I bring a picture of her? I guess not. The second half is all about talking poltergeists.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I READ A PORTION FROM MY PREVIOUS MANUSCRIPT ENTITLED TESTAMENT REGISTERED FOR COPYRIGHT IN MAY 1995.)
Q: When it first came they could hear a perfect hurling in the air above the house. Hurling in the air — whatever that meant. Like throwing. Then (“THEY TOOK”) the sound they heard was like peas upon boards, the shoeing of horses, names were imitated. It stopped while his wife was going to give birth to a child. It was being nice and didn’t want to cause any problems during that time.
M: (to Megan) Ssshhh. Be quiet.
T: (to Megan) That’s enough. Find her something, Michael.
Q: There was rough scratching on the bed frame as if by iron talons.
M: Sometimes when Twyla and I would lay down the mattress would start shaking.
T: He threw those things at us at night. (laughs) He’s going to stay here.
Q: And there was a sulphurous smell. They complained of a sulphurous smell. This was early on.
T: We would step out and smell something dead and then, right afterward, we would smell roses like rose perfume.
Q: Was that early in the case?
T: Yeah. That was quite a while ago.
Q: That was one of the first things.
T: Every night we’d smell it. Something dead and then rose perfume.
Q: Every night. These are all classic haunting scenarios.
Y: Hello. (“HELLO”)
Q: What about strange lights?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SPIRIT WHISPERING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
T: Yeah. We followed it down to the cemetery.
M: We followed a green light. Green lights and red lights.
T: Heather got chased out of the bedroom by a green light. We’ve had yellow lights following us.
M: What are you taking, Jerry?
R: Nothing.
B: That’s something.
T: Corn and everything.
B: Edna brought a big bowl of pork and beans and a big thing of corn.
M: Bless her heart.
B: She said, “Tonight, I can’t bring them. See you tomorrow.”
M: Edna, you’ve brought enough.
T: Brought all that yesterday . . .
M: Sharon wrote me out a check for $15 . . .
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MORE SPIRIT WHISPERING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
F: Did you ever get that spoon back from Kim?
M: Oh yeah. I’ve got it right here. (“UH-UH”)
Q: (to Megan) Cute. (“YEAH” “IT” “I THINK”)
F: Ooh, I like that. I was just playing with your shirt here.
Q: Everyone says like, “What are those?” They don’t mean anything.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS REFERS TO THE DESIGNS ON THE NINO CERRUTI SPORT SHIRT I WAS WEARING.)
T: I thought it was birds.
F: I think it’s pretty.
Q: I thought they were people once doing —
M: Yeah. It looks like it.
Q: — acrobatic things but it isn’t.
M: Did you see the plant he brought?
F: Uh-uh.
M: It’s beautiful.
T: I like plants better than flowers. At least they last.
Q: I guess that’s why she recommended this one.
T: You have to sit here and eat something. Do you like pizza or do you like corn on the cob?
Q: I like anything.
T: Tomato. (“OHH”) We’ve got plenty of tomatoes.
Q: At least, there’s one thing it hasn’t done like in the other cases. It hasn’t claimed to be Satan or the Devil.
T: No. No.
Q: That’s good. (laughs) (“NO”)
T: We would have done less if that was true.
B: With everything that Michael did already, I want to go up there to the cemetery with you all.
T: I’m going tonight when Steve gets here.
M: I’m going to go get Bill late this evening. (“THAT’S GOOD”)
F: I have to be home by six or seven. (“HOME”)
( . . . )
F: I thought, “These things don’t really happen.” (“YOU KNOW”) After she got to telling me about it, I started coming over more often. Hey, I believed and I believe now.
Q: Did you keep a diary or write down some of the things that happened?
M: She don’t ever write stuff down.
F: No. I wish I had.
Q: Well, you’ll remember some of the things.
F: It’s real interesting. I like to come down here because Michael sleeps with you and he throws things at you.
Q: It’s been quite an experience. (“YOU KNOW”)
F: Yeah, but the first time he ever hit me in the ear with an egg, it hurt. I cried.
Q: What did he hit you with?
F: An egg. But it’s weird. They come out of the icebox (“NO”) and you can’t see them.
T: Another thing is when the rocks hit the wall they hit hard. But when they hit you (“THEY DON’T”) they don’t hurt. They carry such speed and they don’t hurt. Strange.
F: Yeah, it’s really strange. (“WELL”)
Q: What I’m most interested in is that business about the other spirits that it talks about and the way everything correlates. I think the important part of the story here is —
T: We have one that stays down in the cellar.
Q: — connecting all the dots. What?
T: We have one that stays down in the cellar. (“YEAH”) It’s called Leader. Mom, we forgot to tell him about Leader.
F: Oh my goodness.
T: He’s supposed to be the head one. He is huge. He moved the refrigerator into the (“BEAM THEM UP”) middle of the kitchen (“FIVE YEARS LATER”) one time. The same refrigerator. (“THAT’S RIGHT”) And he’s huge.
F: He’s got a real weird voice. Scary.
T: Heather was cold one day (“UM-UH”) and she said she felt arms around her. She said he felt big. I forgot about Leader, Mom. (“TELL HIM”)
M: That’s right — (“HEATHER”) Leader.
T: And he stays down in the cellar most of the time. He growls.
F: Heather, come here.
T: He doesn’t have a high pitch. He grunts, growls and groans. (“BUT IT’S”) Different.
F: (to Heather) Remember that time you were cold and Leader put his arms around you?
H: Um-huh.
F: Tell him about that. (“LEADER PUSHED”)
H: I was sitting right here. I was standing here at the dishwasher all cold and then I felt this big old figure around me. (“BUT”) And I took off running because I got scared.
Q: What did it feel like? (“I”)
H: Like something big.
Q: Was it like wool? How would you describe it? A wooly substance?
H: It was kind of like skin or something like that.
Q: Was it hot?
H: Not really.
Q: Just big but invisible.
H: Yeah.
T: Did he have clothes on him? (“WAS IT EVEN”)
H: No, not really.
Q: Was it even or did it curve?
H: I can’t tell, really. It was weird though.
Q: And it’s name was Leader?
H: Uh-huh.
Q: How many different ones would you say there were altogether?
H: About —
Y: No.
H: — seven, I guess.
Y: No.
H: I don’t know.
Q: Interesting. How do you feel living with that? Just one of those things I guess. (To Kim) Have you had any interaction with ‘Leader’?
K: Yeah. He doesn’t talk.
Q: He’s different from Michael.
T: He just groans or growls and clears the room pretty quick.
Q: How did he get the name Leader?
T: That’s what they said he was.
Q: The other ones called him Leader.
K: They said that there was a leader. One time Michael had Mama take —
M: I went up to Coalgate, which is the county seat in Coal County, because he needed to go to the courthouse.
T: So Mama and Frieda took him. He said, “JUST DRIVE AND I’LL GET BACK HERE WHEN I GET BACK HERE.” He said he had to get some papers from the courthouse and that they have UFOs (“THAT JESUS”) that the United States cannot have because if they found out, Michael can’t be out here no more. His leaders told him to keep everybody denying. That’s why he can’t show himself because everybody will come and get him. NASA will come and get them. So Mama went to Coalgate and dropped him off. And he got back in and he said, “OKAY, I GOT ‘EM. GO.” And he took them.
Q: Did you see the papers?
T: No. You hear him going “DADADADADADA” — talking like a million miles an hour. He said he was talking to his people. (“YEAH”) You can’t understand him.
Q: For all those alien aspects —
T: There are a lot of alien aspects.
Q: — what percentage of it would you say of the entire phenomena would be the alien aspects?
T: It’s more alien than ghost.
M: Yeah. I think so too.
Q: It’s more alien than ghost?
F: I think so.
M: We’ve done that two times — went down there and picked up papers. (“OH WELL”)
Q: That’s one other thing I was going to ask you. Has anyone ever had any missing time periods?
T: Missing what?
Q: Missing time.
M: I haven’t.
Q: That you can’t account for?
M: Time periods. (“YOU ARE RIGHT NOW”)
F: Did you tell him about that time you were in Ada (“HUH”) — what he was doing to you in the car (“HUH”) at the time he kept pushing your seat?
M: I had a little red dinky car one time.
T: What was it? (“WHAT WAS UH”)
M: I can’t think of the name of it. F: I can’t either.
M: It was a standard.
Q: What do you think about it?
M: They were going right downtown through Ada and he pulled her seat down and she just disappeared.
Q: Who?
M: Fae. He whispered and he pulled her seat down (small laugh) —
F: And there’s this son of that guy —
M: — from the back.
F: — that I picked up with her and I was sitting up in the seat. The next thing I knew he was looking over there and he was looking for me.
M: It was like she disappeared. Her seat was pulled back and she fell backwards.
F: And one night on the way to the cemetery when I was sitting in the front seat, something grabbed my foot directly under the dashboard. Oooooh. I didn’t like that.
Q: How old were you at the time?
F: Thirty-six.
Q: (to Twyla) How old were you at the time?
T: When it first started I was about eighteen or nineteen. I’m twenty-three now.
M: When it first started.
F: Oh, when it first started? (“NO”)
T: She was thirty-two so I was nineteen. That was just five years ago.
Q: You’re still definitely the focus. (“NO”) There’s so much else that goes on. I thought this was going to get more clear but it gets worse, doesn’t it? In terms of all the different entities and everything. (“COME UP”)
T: We’ve had people tell us, “Hey, we’ve seen them in the car with you.”
Q: “We’ve seen them?”
T: Me and my sister Kim were walking to town one night and it looked like Mom had about six or seven people in the car with her — my daughter and everybody. I thought, “Why is she taking all the kids to a phone booth when she needs to use the phone?” When we got there, nobody but Mom was in the car. I said, “Where’s all the people that were with you?” And she said, “It’s just me.” And once Mom was driving her car and Brenda was sitting behind her and saw a figure peering in. We’ve seen children. Our neighbors and friends have come up here and seen children in hospital gowns. There was supposed to have been an orphanage here — (“WHERE”)
F: — where they all died.
Q: On the premises?
T: Yeah. I seen a real blond-headed boy—almost like him but they weren’t here at the time—in a hospital gown. I’ve seen it plain to where it may be bald. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Right.
T: It’s strange. Think about this town. Years ago, the town was hit by a tornado and this town was in another spot. It was like several miles over. You know what the town’s name was before it was Centrahoma?
Q: What?
T: Owl. The town’s name was Owl.
Q: O — W — L? (“NO”) Where is this all going? (“QUEBEC”) I’m just trying to think in terms of the — (“YOU KNOW”) what I would like to think about is the chronology and the scope, which is quite unintelligible because there’s a gamut of material. (“UH-HUH”) And there are so many gothic elements.
T: Yeah.
Q: At least, I’ve read about these other cases so I can see certain parallels —
T: Oh yeah.
Q: — which (“SO”) help me. I’m trying to figure out the overall direction. There’s plenty of material here.
( . . . )
T: They wanted me to say, “I’m Twyla and for the past five years a ghost has been following me around.” I said, “I don’t know if it’s a ghost.” (“NO”) I said, “I’m not going to use that.” They said, “Well, what do you want to use?” So I said, “Supernatural being. I’m not using ghost because I don’t know (“RIGHT”) or think that’s what it is.”
Q: Good for you.
T: I’m not going to say something they want me to say when I don’t think that’s what it is.
Q: This was for “Put It To The Test”? (“YES”)
T: Uh-huh.
Q: But they haven’t shown you that tape?
T: Uh-uh.
Q: I can sort of see why. I guess they don’t have to do that but they could show you that tape just to let you see what it looks like.
T: Yeah.
Q: You had to sign a release for the TV show, didn’t you?
T: Uh-huh.
Q: A separate release.
T: Uh-huh.
Q: But see? Even if they do something with you (“SEE”) it’s probably going to be your name attached to something that they changed (“THAT’S RIGHT”) and they lied about. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: I told them, “You do not make me look like I am into witchcraft or I’m possessed. Do not make me look like that.”
Q: No matter what happens, just remember that you always have control over the material.
T: Even though they have the rights?
Q: You must. Yes.
T: Really?
( . . . )
(“WELL”)
Q: Well, that’s interesting. (“NO”) If you ever do find the copy of what you signed, I can send it to my attorney.
T: You can find it if you look.
M: I don’t have any idea right now.
Q: Don’t worry about it.
M: I’ll find it.
Q: It’s just for general terms. So there’s the flock of owls and this once was the town Owl. There’s so much here. Did anyone see a spaceship? Let’s get to the brass tax.
M: I haven’t.
T: The people that lived here before. (“WHAT FUN”)
Q: What landed on the roof of the car that time?
T: She didn’t see it. She just heard it. (“WHAT WAS IT”)
Q: But what was it?
M: It sounded like something light landed on the top with a motor.
Q: Well, that’s a UFO. (“YEAH”)
M: And my neighbor Frieda was with me. It felt like a little burden. (“REVERE”)
Q: Frieda’s your next-door neighbor?
M: Uh-huh. She don’t want anything to do with it.
Q: Well, of course not.
M: Her husband don’t want her in on this. (“NO”)
T: If he didn’t care, she’d be over here talking.
M: I know.
T: She had so much stuff happen to her.
Q: Well, I can understand.
T: I don’t care any more. (small laugh)
Q: I’m just trying to keep track of everyone. (“AH-HA”) That’s so interesting. You know, on Mars — everyone sees that face on Mars. In fact, there are some people now who even think that one of the moons of Mars is like a space pad.
T: Really?
Q: A synthetic moon because of the way it acts in terms of its gravitational pattern.
F: Did you have problems finding your way down here?
Q: Coming here? Not really.
T: It’s hard to find Centrahoma. (“YEAH”)
Q: Well, there was a sign. I always get into trouble when there isn’t a sign because I always look for signs.
F: You didn’t have to get a map or anything?
Q: Well, I have a map, thank God.
F: Yeah. (laughs) You need a map just in case?
Q: It’s pretty easy on a big highway. Things are on the map. But I had a problem getting to my hotel because my travel agent —
M: I like the way he put my name in here.
Q: — just told me Ada. I thought, “Oh, I’ll just get there and the hotel will be right there.”
F: Your ex-wife called him and that’s probably why he didn’t maybe.
Q: It was not. It was hard to find.
M: He said, “Do you want your name in on this?” And I said, “Yeah.”
Q: The hotel. One of the locals helped me.
F: Oh, that’s good. You’ll find it’s pretty nice over there.
M: When they preach it — that’s what he wants.
Q: What time is the funeral tomorrow?
F: Two o’clock. (to Maxine) I didn’t think they’d put your name in the papers.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE ARE OVERLAPPING UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE LIKE CATS MEOWING.)
T: I’ve got to clean my car out tonight.
Q: I think I would really like to go.
F: I still can’t see us with her. (to myself) Are you going to go tomorrow?
Q: I might. I would like to go, I think.
F: Yeah? (“WELL GRANDFATHER’S SICK” “I THINK HE’S GOING TO BE” “I SURE WOULD BE”)
Q: Your whole family’s going to be there?
T: He has no family left on his side, does he?
F: Yeah.
M: He just had a brother. (“THERE IS SOME”)
T: Will Bobbie come?
M: I doubt it.
F: I’ve been trying to get a hold of Jack and Frieda.
M: I said, “Bobbie’s father’s in the paper.” She ran up —
T: Does she still live in Coalgate? (“DADDY”)
M: Yeah. We just talked to her two days ago. Daggum her.
T: Steve ran a tag the other night and it turned out the car belonged to a Bobby Bell out of Winnetka, Oklahoma.
M: Her name’s Nichols now.
[2021 UPDATE: TWYLA'S ANECDOTE ABOUT AN APPARENT INSTANCE OF PSYCHIC PHENOMENA SHOWING AN ASPECT OF PRECOGNITION CORRELATES WITH AN INCIDENT DESCRIBED BY HAROLD SHERMAN IN HIS 1949 BOOK YOU LIVE AFTER DEATH , AS FOLLOWS:
M: I’ve grabbed a hold of him.
T: You can feel him but you just can’t see him.
Q: What does he feel like?
M: It felt like a big old wrist. I couldn’t even put my hands all the way around it.
Q: Did you feel fingers?
M: No. It was a wrist it felt like. He screamed so I turned him lose. He didn’t want nobody to help me grab him.
T: (laughs)
Q: The way the house is structured you don’t have any space in-between the outside walls and inside walls?
M: Uh-uh.
Q: You have the paneling but no hollow areas underneath or anything?
M: I’ve grabbed him twice.
T: Uh-huh.
M: And he gets up under the covers and you can see a head come up under the covers.
Q: A head?
M: You can’t see it.
T: It’s a tiny head.
Q: Like in the photo?
T: It’s a little alien-shaped head.
Q: Notice you said the word alien.
T: That’s what I think it is.
M: He tore the covers off of me and Twyla one night. We put them back. Then, he curled up under the covers.
J: What about that red cloud?
M: In Tupelo.
Q: Red cloud?
T: A whole bunch of us saw a huge red cloud.
Q: I’ve always wondered if poltergeist cases tied-in with extra-terrestrials.
T: I’ve heard people say that.
M: He said he was friends with ghosts, didn’t he?
T: He told us what it’s like on Saturn.
Q: What is Saturn like? I have to hear this. (laughs) It’s probably going to be true.
T: I remember he said it was real hot. That’s why when we first came here he was cold all the time. And he says there is water there.
Q: That’s what I read recently. It has water.
T: And they have businesses there. They have a big McAlien’s, which is like McDonald’s. (“NO”)
Q: (laughs) I love it. This would be a great movie. The humor is great.
M: The girls work at McAlien’s.
T: We’d be sent to the crazy farm.
Q: The fact that it’s so crazy suggests to me that it’s true because if you wanted to lie you wouldn’t think of something so outlandish. But most people don’t understand that.
T: That’s true.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS A NOISE FROM THE LIVING ROOM THAT SOUNDS LIKE SOMETHING HAS FALLEN OVER.)
T: What’s Megan doing?
M: I don’t know but they’re all trying to wake him up.
T: Let’s see.
Q: They’re so funny. Kids.
M: Eric was doing it too.
K: Yes, I know.
Q: Eric was? I mean, kids are always —
K: He was trying to wake him up. Both of them were.
T: I can’t do everything.
M: We tried to get him to bring us some McAlien burgers. (laughs)
T: We had the rocks that he threw at us analyzed and they said they were lava rocks. And there shouldn’t be no lava rocks around here. They had a lot of iron ore in them. They were magnetic.
Q: Were they hot when you first touched it?
T: Yes.
M: Everything is warm.
T: The pennies are hot —
Q: That’s exactly what happens.
T: — or they’re freezing cold.
Q: This is textbook stuff.
H: Can I take Megan outside?
T: Will you watch her? Go on. Don’t let her get out in the road.
Q: Do you think there’s a hollow area underneath the house?
M: Don’t let them boys get in with her.
T: Underneath the foundation or — probably. Why?
Q: There could be something running around in there.
K: Better watch Shane though.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ATTRIBUTED SQUEAKING SOUNDS HEARD ON TAPES ARE THE FRONT DOOR.)
Q: I don’t know. I’m just thinking. That’s one of the possibilities.
T: You spook me. (laughs) (“OH GOSH”)
K: He knows about a lot of that darn stuff.
T: He’s always in the attic.
Q: I’m trying to figure out what it is.
T: The attic is his house.
Q: That’s what I meant when I said hollow spaces.
M: I’ll tell you something funny. Me, Twyla and Brenda were in there one night and all of a sudden that attic door just flew open. There were two of them fighting like cats and dogs.
Q: Two of them? Two what?
M: Whatever. (laughs)
Q: Oh my God.
M: And we asked them what they were fighting over. And they said, “WE’RE FIGHTING OVER BRENDA.”
Q: I wish they would explain themselves a little better.
M: I do too but you can’t get nothing out of them.
R: Yeah. All this stuff.
Q: In the Bell case they said, “Show us where you come in.” (“AND”) The whole section of the ceiling raised two feet up and then down.
T: Oh gosh.
Q: And they said that’s how they’re getting in. Who knows if that was true.
T: It throws eggs but the refrigerator door never opens. He don’t need to have the refrigerator door open.
Q: He would drain their whole dairy. They had a dairy room. They would go in and all the milk would be gone.
M: He threw all of our eggs at us one time. All over the place.
Q: Was he angry about something?
K: No. That’s just the way he plays, I guess.
M: And he threw every one of them at us. We told him if he wanted to throw another egg he’d have to go over to the neighbor’s. I guess he did. Another one hit. He was gone a few seconds and then he came back and threw another one. (“OW”)
T: He egged my husband in the head. (laughs) That was funny.
M: He asked for that.
Q: What did he say?
M: He asked Michael.
T: Yeah, he did.
M: He said, “Throw an egg at me, Michael.”
T: And he did.
M: The back of his hair was just dripping with it. (laughs)
Q: You’re right. He did ask for it.
M: One time I was standing over by the sink and all of a sudden a egg hit me right in the back of the head.
T: (laughs)
M: She was standing there leaning over that keg (“I WAS”) just dying laughing and all of a sudden she got one.
T: Right in the temple and it hurt. I didn’t laugh no more.
M: (laughs) I died laughing.
T: It’s so funny. It hurts but it’s so funny.
M: It hurts.
K: That’s one thing you don’t do is laugh at somebody.
T: He took your bra and strung it across the room from nail to nail.
M: A pair of pantyhose.
T: Pantyhose. (laughing)
M: He had the legs —
Q: Oh my god.
K: — hanging to the wall.
T: He’s had diarrhea.
M: You can hear that too. (“YEAH”)
T: He ran through the house with the door open and you could hear, feel air —
M: He took a big old box of Epson salts up in the attic.
T: I guess he drank it or something.
M: We came back from Tupelo and he said, “HURRY MAXINE I GOT DIARRHEA.” And we came in here and I said, “Let’s go in the living room.” (“UH-UH”) Going to the bathroom something was going —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE MAKES A DUCK-LIKE HAWKING SOUND.)
T: They have webbed feet. They have webbed feet.
Q: How do you know that?
T: There was a speech teacher here. Me and her were here. Mama hadn’t gotten here yet. He moved the table and when he did it spilled a bunch of coffee. And it was just a little puddle because the floor’s uneven. I was over here cleaning it up and she just screamed, “Oh my God.” I said, “What?” She saw feet marks. It was running all the way over there but there were webbed feet marks. Webbed like a duck’s.
M: In front of the speech teacher.
T: She said, “It’s webbed feet.” And I said, “Well, I’m sorry but I didn’t do it.” I mean, there was nobody else in here but me and her.
J: I heard her say that.
B: I did too.
T: It was awful. It was funny. (“LIP”) Man, it’s a duck. That’s what it is. A duck. (laughs)
Q: On one hand we have the very human behavior and dialogue. On the other hand, we have the aliens and there are multiple things (“UH-HUH”) like fighting and — (“WHATEVER”)
T: That’s why it don’t make sense.
Q: It doesn’t make sense.
T: None of it.
M: I hope it’s never one of them ducks we used to have out here.
T: “Howard the Duck.”
M: We used to have a yard full of them.
Q: It could assume the form of a duck. Who knows?
T: Oh yeah.
Q: When you think about it.
T: You said they could form into them.
B: Tell him about the time I was in the house and you seen me out there.
M: You tell it. I can’t —
B: You’re the one that seen it.
Q: Did you see an animal or something?
M: No, I saw her out there and she was in the house.
Q: That’s what we were talking about earlier.
B: You seen me outside of the room that I was in.
Q: It can assume the form of different people. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: Like the first time I heard Sue come in here and talk.
B: Tell him about that.
T: Sue was supposed to come get Brenda one night. I went to bed and I heard Sue come in and say, “Brenda, I’m sorry I was late. I had a flat tire. Steve had to change it.” So I thought Brenda had left. I come back in here an hour, thirty minutes later to get some — I said, “Didn’t Sue come get you?” She said, “No, she’s late.” I said, “Brenda, I just heard her come in and say she had a flat.” Ten minutes later, she got here. She’d had a flat and was apologizing. It was like the house recorded the whole conversation. It was playing it before it happened. Remember, you told Sue and it scared her.
M: She’s real scared.
T: She’d already been here and said that.
Q: It was like hearing it replayed or something?
T: Yeah. I could hear them both in here talking: “Brenda, I’m sorry. I had a flat. Steve had to change it.”
M: That was weird.
T: “We got into a fight.”
Q: Before? (“UH-HUH”)
B: She told me about it before.
T: Before she even came over and did it I told her.
Q: The voices were perfect?
T: Yes, it was Sue and it was Brenda.
Q: This parallels pretty well with some other cases.
T: It scared me. It already happened. I said, “Brenda, I heard you already. I heard Sue already get here and say she was late. ‘Sorry, I’m late. I had a flat.'” And then she wasn’t here yet. Then, later on she did come out: “I’m sorry, Brenda. I had a flat. Steve had to change it.”
Q: Oh my God.
T: The same exact words.
Q: What do you think about that?
M: I don’t know.
B: It scared me.
T: That scared you too, didn’t it? It was scary.
B: Yeah, it did.
Q: So it was warning you maybe. It was telling you this was going to happen.
B: You could have a murder, I guess. (“YEAH”) Q: If it ever says anything like “Don’t go someplace” — (“YEAH”) I think I would listen to it. (“YEAH”) (laughs) You know? (“THAT HAPPENS”)
M: That’s right. Michael told me one time he was with us—me and Bill—when we had that wreck (“HE’LL DIE”) in the tow truck.
Q: He was with you?
M: Somebody ran into us. I got glass still coming out of my head.
Q: Do you think he helped a little bit?
M: He might have. (“I HAD BLOOD”) I had blood running out of my head all the way down to the ground.
Q: Now isn’t it funny? Where I come from, the freeways are jam-packed with people and there aren’t accidents. Here, there are wide open spaces and there are accidents. I don’t get it.
T: It’s weird. (“IT’S SCARY”)
Q: Well, there are a lot of accidents there too but (“BUT I’M”) I’m just trying to figure out what is going on. You have Michael and you have these other personalities, webbed feet, fighting in the attic. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: One time he got kidnaped from the cemetery. Michael got kidnaped out of the car. My car door opened.
Q: Kidnaped?
T: It flew open.
M: He wanted to go to the cemetery.
T: And he was gone.
Q: Do you think he just got out?
T: He said later the bad spirits got him. Me and a bunch of other kids had to go over there and get him back.
M: We heard him way off in the woods out there hollering, “HELP ME. HELP ME.”
Q: Oh my God.
T: I think it’s the town. I think it’s the town.
M: This worried us. We just wanted to cry.
Q: Do you think he might have been teasing you?
M: I don’t know.
Q: He might have been putting on a little play act.
M: He’s scared to death of them spirits over here at the cemetery.
T: Remember when he was in the corner hunched down screaming for Josh to do something. (“NO”)
Q: That is exactly what happened in the Bell Witch case.
M: Is that right?
Q: Because there was this still and the bad spirits would always be at the still. Their names were Blackdog, Cypocryphy, Mathematics and Jerusalem.
M: Well, this is John the Child Killer. Michael’s scared to death —
T: John Hathaway.
M: (overlapping) Hathaway.
Q: That’s one of the bad spirits?
T: An older man told me there was an orphanage here where kids died when it burned down. (“OH”)
Q: God. There’s enough here for ten movies.
T: She digs up spoons in the yard that have been burnt. (“YEAH”)
M: I’m looking for that spoon.
Q: Do you frequently find things missing?
T: There’s always something missing.
Q: Constantly?
T: Or they’ll be at my house. He’ll take it to my house. And stuff from my house will be brought down here. (“UM-HUH”) Pants. (“NO”) Money.
Q: When you heard Michael earlier was it having a conversation from someplace else in the room?
T: No, it’s right here.
Q: Here?
T: It’s here.
Q: It’s probably just as interested in this as we are.
M: This spoon with an H on it was thrown in here in the kitchen. I said, “I’ve never seen it before.” (“NO”) We figured out it might stand for Hathaway.
T: (overlapping) Hathaway.
M: That’s John the child-killer.
Q: Isn’t that’s unbelievable. That is so freaky.
M: I’ve never had a spoon like that.
T: I hope he does something. I hope he goes crazy. I hope he tears up the place right now. I wish he’d do it.
K: Something happen a while ago? (“NO”)
T: We heard him.
M: He’s got it on tape.
Q: John Hathaway. So Michael’s afraid of him and the bad spirits?
M: He’s scared to death of them.
Q: Who are some of the other people?
M: I don’t know.
Q: (about the spoon) This reminds me of Uri Geller who can bend spoons or something.
T: Oh yeah.
Q: I don’t think he’s legitimate.
T: I don’t either. (“BUT”)
Q: But some people do.
T: With his mind. (“HE’S BEEN”)
Q: He’s been caught fabricating some things but still you wonder. I know people who met him and say that he can bend them just by rubbing them. (“HUH”) Keep that spoon in your file. That’s hilarious. (“YEAH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WHEN I WAS A TALENT AGENT I INTERACTED WITH NANCY KULP WHOSE CHARACTER IN “THE BEVERLY HILLBILLIES” WAS NAMED JANE HATHAWAY.)
K: Tell him about the night you and Frieda went to town.
M: He wanted me to take him to the cemetery and he said he didn’t want Twyla to go. He didn’t want her in on it. (“YEAH”)
Q: Interesting.
M: I said, “Michael, I’m not going to the cemetery by myself with you.” (laughs) And then he said, “WELL TAKE ME TO TUPELO TO THE BALL PARK. MY PEOPLE ARE WAITING.” I picked up my neighbor and we went down there. She had to get a can of gas so she went with me. We started back and something landed on top of the car. You could just barely hear it and there was a little motorized sound. (“HUH”) When we got into Centrahoma we both heard it. We got into town up here and then you couldn’t hear it any more. That was strange.
T: I can tell him from birds and anything else now because I’ve been around him so long. And one time he fixed it where I could not hear him.
M: He did.
T: I could not hear nothing. Mother, Brenda and everybody would hear it. I said, “Mama, ask him why he did it.” He said it was causing me too many problems. But it was only like that for a couple days.
M: He was making her where she couldn’t hear it.
Q: Because it was causing her too many problems? (“YEAH”)
T: Because people think I’m doing it with my mind.
M: Everybody blames her (“RIGHT”) for doing it.
T: Or I’m ‘into witchcraft.’
Q: There might be something there where you are the — what’s the word for it? Focus. No. There’s another word for it.
T: Mediator. Something like that. (“NO”)
Q: I don’t know why I can’t think of it right now.
T: Agent.
M: That’s what that guy said: “She was the agent of it.”
T: They think it could be psychic (“RIGHT”) ability. (“GOSH I’VE HEARD IT ALL”) ‘Witchcraft.’
M: They tried to get her to — they sat right here and told her if she —
T: Oh, that’s weird. You’ve got to listen to this. (“MAKE”) Out there in the cemetery they said, “Twyla, concentrate. Make — help me, help me.” They make me think I’m just crazy. Well, I did. I sat there. I wanted to do something so bad. I said, “Michael, if you love me throw a rock.” He did. But when I was sitting there concentrating they made me do it for like twenty minutes. “Just sit there and do this.” That’s when this trailer they had out here started — (“YOU KNOW”) bad things started happening to that trailer when I was (“DOWN HERE”) a mile across town. They did it to me in here again. They said, “Twyla, think of something.” They said, “Anything.”
Q: Who was doing this?
M: LMNO.
T: They wanted me to see if I could do something. (“THEY”) And those boys out there ran in here screaming, hollering. They said something walked up to their trailer and was going (snaps fingers) like this. (“SEE”) It makes me think that maybe they do — (“HE KNOWS IT”)
Q: I think Michael knows what’s going on so — he wants to (“DANCE”) — intends to meet your questions but not meet their questions. Do you ever feel like you’re the real ‘Carrie?’ (small laugh)
T: The real what?
Q: “Carrie.” That famous Sissy Spacek movie?
T: Oh yeah. (“IT’S LIKE”) They brought that (“YOU”) stupid movie up.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SEVERAL UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS, INCLUDING SPIRIT WHISPERING, OVERLAPPING, CAN BE HEARD ON THIS SECTION OF TAPE.)
T: I hated that movie. (“WHO”)
Q: Who brought that up?
T: LMNO.
Q: It’s similar.
T: I’d be rich if I could do that.
Q: Telekinesis.
M: They offered her a $30,000 car if she could make something move with her mind.
T: A Lexus. They first said, “Be honest.”
Q: That would definitely get great (“GOOD”) ratings.
M: She tried but — (laughs)
T: I thought, “Damn, I’m going to bust my head open.”
Q: (small laugh)
M: (laughs)
T: I tried. (“WELL SEE”)
Q: Yeah. (“WELL”) In terms of doing justice to the story, it means remembering and going over. Much like we’re doing (“UM-HUH”) to try to get as much remembered as possible. Can I look around?
M: You sure can but don’t look at my house.
Q: I know, I know, I know.
T: Nobody cares about your house.
M: Help yourself. (“OH GOOD GRIEF”)
Q: Maybe I’ll take a picture of the attic. I have one of these dumb little Kodak cameras. I don’t know if it will work very well. I’ve never had one before. Have you ever used these?
T: Those instant throwaways? Those are good. They are.
Q: I’ll try it. (“YOU JUST”) I went to film school and it was such a bad experience. (“NO”) I sort of have a mental block about cameras after that. (“OH”) Ever since then I’ve felt like I don’t want to (“OH”) have anything to do with technology.
M: He steals money from me. (“WHAT ACCOUNT OH”) He asked me here one Saturday night — (“OF COURSE HE WOULD”)
T: He steals a lot of money.
M: — a while back. He asked me if he could borrow a $20 and I said, “Michael, I’ve got bills to pay. I can’t afford it.” So when she left (“I DON’T WANT TO HEAR IT”) the next morning my (“DOLL”) $20 —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I AM SHOWN ANOTHER PHOTOGRAPH.)
Q: Look at this.
T: That all got thrown in one day. (“YEAH”)
Q: That’s one day? Oh, my goodness.
T: Pennies, rocks, bolts, nuts, screws.
Q: That’s a great photo. (“LOOK AT THAT”) Oh my God. Look at — are those nails?
T: Yeah. Old nails like they come out of a house.
Q: The classic nails and pins.
T: I think it’s the first thing they can pick up. It’s what’s laying around. (“ROCKS”) Rocks.
Q: There’s something more to it than that.
T: We’ve had hundreds of people get pinned in the butt. In their place. (“WELL”)
Q: There was one case where (“A PIN”) in a dark room a pin —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A WEATHER-BOARDED RESIDENCE IN NORTH TEDWORTH, ENGLAND BECAME THE SETTING FOR MANY STRANGE EVENTS IN 1661. THE OWNER, JOHN MUMPESSON, WROTE ABOUT ONE CHRISTMAS EVE INCIDENT INVOLVING HIS SON: “A PIN OF THE LATCH OF THE DOOR WAS PULLED OUT AND THE DOOR THROWN OPEN. THE LATCH HIT THE BOY DIRECTLY IN SORE PLACE ON HIS HEEL AND MADE HIM CRY OUT. ONE WOULD WONDER HOW SUCH A LITTLE PIN COULD BE FOUND OUT IN THE NIGHT.”)
T: Marbles.
Q: This is major. (“COME GET”)
M: I’m going to go to town. I got a check to cash, anyway. (“YOU JUST”)
Q: Maybe I’ll look around with Twyla while you’re gone.
M: You just make yourself at home.
Q: I want to see the attic, maybe.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TWYLA AND I GO TO THE WOOD PANEL THAT COVERS THE ENTRANCE TO THE ATTIC.)
T: Look through here. Move it there. (“I HOPE THIS WAS THE PART”) You have to push it up.
Q: So this is where they were fighting that time.
T: Yeah.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I GASP WHEN I SEE AN INSECT AS I BEGIN TO REMOVE THE PANEL.)
Q It was a little animal or something.
T: (small laugh)
Q: Oh look. Oh my God. It’s so hot in here.
T: Uh-huh.
Q: Jesus.
T: What?
Q There was an insect.
T: Is Saturn this hot?
Q: Huge spider.
T: I wonder if it likes that. There were blankets and stuff. Our neighbors made him blankets and stuff but I think my mom threw them away.
Q: I’m scared of spiders.
T: You need me to do it? You need me to take a picture?
Q: Yeah. Why don’t you do it? You know how to use these? Charge the flash and just push it here. And hold it down until the light comes on.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MEGAN STARTS TO CRY.)
(“UH-OH”)
T: Do it right now?
Q: Yeah.
T: Push it back? (“WAIT — WAIT”)
Q: Did you charge it or (“WHAT ABOUT”) do you want me to —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I INDICATE MY CONCERN ABOUT MEGAN AS TWYLA HANDS ME THE CAMERA TO PREPARE.)
T: She’s fine. She cries all the time.
Q: It says hold until ready light comes on. Where is the ready light? Oh, there it is. Okay, aim. Set your subject in the view finder. It’s supposed to be four to ten feet only. And shoot. This attic is the main — (“I THINK I’LL TAKE ANOTHER ONE”)
T: You want another photo?
Q: Maybe on the other side or —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: A PENNY DROPS OUT OF THE EMPTY ATTIC AND WE BOTH GASP.)
T: He’s up there.
Q: He’s up there. He is. I know.
T: Oh, my God. I’m shaking. What did he throw?
Q: A penny it sounded like.
T: We got to find it. (“HERE LOOK”) What could he do with it before? (“YEAH”) Look, Megan.
Q: It dropped over there.
T: Where is it?
Q: Maybe he took it back?
T: Oh, my gosh. Look here. There are big old wasps.
Q: That’s what I saw.
T: Huge.
Q: Maybe that’s him. (laughs) (“YOU KNOW”)
T: You can go up there and take a look. (“OH MY GOSH”)
Q: But they don’t want to believe it, you know?
T: They come up with so much. Megan, bring him his chair.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: WE RETURN TO THE DINING ROOM AFTER REPLACING THE ATTIC PANEL.)
Q: But see? That’s the — (“BUT”) but thank you Megan — but the funny thing is that we really don’t know what is going on and it could easily be in the form of an animal or something living up there.
T: What about my mom talking to you? She said “It’s up here, I think.”
Y: Mama. I want candy.
Q: It could assume the form of one but I don’t think it would be one.
T: You mean like a big rat or something?
Q: Yeah. Something. Makes sense.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE IS UNATTRIBUTED TAPE INTERFERENCE ACCOMPANYING THE SOUND OF AN OBJECT STRIKING THE WALL.)
Q: What was that? (“I DON’T KNOW”)
T: Tossed a rock. You see? The doors are all shut. There’s nobody here but me and you. (“NO”) You didn’t have a peeing fit as I figured.
Y: Candy. I want Candy. I want Candy.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: TWYLA LOOKS FOR THE OBJECT.)
T: Either he got it back or something because it’s gone. I don’t feel it.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: DURING AN INTERVIEW HIATUS I TAKE SOME PHOTOS OF THE HOUSE AND YARD. AFTER I RETURN INSIDE AND SIT DOWN, A NAIL STRIKES THE BACK OF MY HEAD AND THEN FALLS TO THE FLOOR. OUCH, THAT HURT!)
T: Did a nail hit you?
Q: A nail hit me in the head. (“SO”) Thank you, Michael. I took photos of those little houses outside. What are they called? Those little storage sheds?
T: Sheds. My sister lives in one of them. One of them’s a room. The other one is full of a lot of stuff.
Q: Does he ever go there? Michael?
T: He basically goes wherever I go. Most of the time. I don’t understand why he picked me or anything.
Q: Well, you know, just — I’m glad we’re talking about this now when your mom’s not here. People have theorized that some form of child abuse leads to it.
T: I was going to tell you while my mom was gone that my dad that died, Carlton Bell, is not my real dad. He’s not even Brenda’s either. He’s Kim, Marla’s and my brother’s dad. And my dad — my mom told me about it. Carlton was a real bad alcoholic. And don’t tell my mama because she would be so embarrassed.
Q: No, I won’t.
T: He used to make her do things and she got pregnant with me because of one of the things he made her do. My real father is a well-known rapist. And (“UM-HUH”) I don’t see — I mean I wouldn’t do to him what —
Q: But what you said (“OH”) — when he made her do certain things you mean with someone else?
T: Um-huh. In my home, he was — it feels strange to talk about it and she wouldn’t want nobody to know but —
Y: Pop!
T: — he played cards and he was an alcoholic and he made her sleep with his friends to get him more alcohol. And one of his alcohol buddies was my father. She got pregnant with me and she’s embarrassed but it’s the past. Don’t worry about it. She’s never treated me any different though.
Q: But you, yourself, have never been abused? Or have you?
T: Yeah.
Q: By who? There’s that wasp behind you.
T: Michael, you better go away. (laughs)
Q: Shall I open the door? Oh no. We don’t want it to get warm in here. But I don’t want to kill it. It might be the spirit and then I’d really be in trouble.
T: (laughs) Kill Michael.
Q: Oh God.
T: You want me to kill it?
Q: No.
T: I’ll slam that wasp. (laughs)
Q: I wanted us to catch it and then put it outside.
T: Catch it. Yeah, right. (laughs)
Q: With cardboard or something. Let me open the door and maybe it’ll fly out.
T: A lot of times they’ll do that.
Q: Whoops. See, that’ll take care of it. We don’t want to leave the door open long because it’s so hot.
T: Alright.
Q: Oh good.
T: There he goes. Yeah.
Q: Acts of aggression could play a role in the phenomena.
T: Why? I believe you but I just don’t know what to do and what not to do.
Q: Some believed the other Bell case began because the father of the family was shooting at a strange animal that he saw near some corn rows. (“OH MY GOSH”)
T: Oh my gosh.
Q: In terms of your abuse what exactly has happened?
T: It won’t be brought up or anything? (“NO”)
Q: Not unless you give me permission.
T: My stepfather is the one.
Q: Your stepfather.
T: Is it always? He molested us girls. All the step girls. I can’t believe it. He molested his own children.
Q: You mean Bill? Bill? (“NO”)
T: And the guy that came in with the long beard — that’s his son.
Q Who?
T: Billy Joe. That’s my stepfather’s son and he molested us too. (“YEAH”)
Q: You notice that he’s the one getting punished.
T: He got ran off one night by a rock. (“RIGHT”) It’s almost like it attacked him.
Q: I meant Bill’s disorder.
T: Um-huh.
Q: That’s what I had known right away just from looking at the other cases. There seems to be a reason why he was the one.
T: LMNO asked me about it and I didn’t want it spread all over the world. And I knew they would probably do it.
Q: But I knew before you even told me. That’s part of the usual case. You’re smart for not telling them. (“UH-HUH”)
T: I don’t know what to tell them and what not to. I just don’t trust anybody.
Q: That’s why you should have an attorney look at these things before you sign anything.
T: Yeah.
Q: I don’t know if they’ve been fair with you.
T: I think $7,000 was a little bit cheap myself but it wasn’t about money. It was about people.
Q: What did they buy for $7,000? (“WHY”)
T: Our life story just about.
Q: In order for them to get your life story you would have to cooperate with them. Do you understand what I’m saying?
T: Yeah, I know, but they told us anything that —
Q: Are they buying your identity and your right to tell your story? (“YEAH”) If you don’t feel like they’re treating you fairly feel free to say no.
T: What can we do now, though? We signed.
Q: Just don’t cooperate with them. Don’t tell them anything.
T: Really?
Q: Yeah.
Y: That bug.
Q: What?
Y: That bug.
Q: I don’t know what you’re saying. She doesn’t talk very well yet.
T: She’s not even two yet.
Q: She’s learning.
Y: Mama.
T: (to Megan) What do you want? A chip?
Q: Does Michael ever speak around your husband? I guess not.
T: Not really.
Q: He’d be handy to have around, I guess. (laughs)
T: Yeah, he is.
Q: In terms of Bill’s abuse, did he have sex with you? As a child?
T: No. Thank God.
Q: He didn’t go all the way.
T: He would just fondle us and make love to me. Like furniture.
Q: How old were you?
T: About five. Later on I talked to my sisters about it and they said, “Yeah, he did that to us too.”
Q: It’s enough to make you really wonder.
T: It’s sick.
Q: There are just so many different elements.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE ATTRIBUTED SOUND HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE IS OF MY CHAIR MOVING AS I SEE ANOTHER WASP.)
Q: Whoops, there’s another one. I’ll open the door. I think we let them out when we opened the attic door. (“OH”) I hope it will come out. Maybe you should leave the door open and then I’ll run this way. Come on out. Come on. This isn’t going to work because the other one’s going to come back in.
T: Those black ones there don’t bite.
Q: (to Megan) Stay inside. T: Come on, Megan.
Q: It’s very hot out there. They do not want to go outside.
T: You’re good with kids. You need some.
Q: Yeah, well.
T: You don’t want to have kids?
Q: Of course, but I’m a firm believer that you have to have both parents really participating in bringing up the child. (“YEAH”)
T: It’s hard. (“RIGHT”)
Q: So I guess first I have to find the ‘right’ person. (“OH”) Having children isn’t the main thing in a relationship. I, myself, was sort of abused as a child.
T: Everybody is. Every kid.
Q: I wouldn’t call it abuse but my parents would fight and there was alcoholism.
T: That’s abuse. (“YOU KNOW”) Even neglect to me is abuse.
Q: I think the word is overused too much but — (“UH-HUH”)
T: At least, I don’t remember it because I was too small.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I AM AT THE DOOR WAITING FOR A CHANCE TO LET THE SECOND WASP OUT.)
Q: I’ll wait until it comes back out. (“OH”) Here it comes. Okay.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I OPEN THE DOOR.)
Q: Is it coming? Okay. (MEOW)
T: He’s moved back to the light.
Q Well.
Y: He’s a bug. (“L”)
Q: I don’t want to kill it. (“YEAH”)
T: You have wasps in California, don’t you?
Q: Yeah, but they don’t come inside.
Y: Killing a bug.
T: Oh really?
Y: A bug.
Q: They’re not this big either.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MAXINE AND BRENDA RETURN.)
T: Welcome back, Mama.
M: Hi, everybody.
T: Megan’s trying to kill me.
M: Come on bug.
T: He’s scared of wasps.
B: You would never believe it. It’s back in my pocket. (“I’LL HELP YOU”)
M: My goodness.
Q: There are some wasps that got inside.
T: (laughs) He’s scared of wasps.
Q: One of them is still inside.
M: It’s hotter than hades out there.
Q: It is. My God.
M: Getting hotter. It’s supposed to be 103 in certain areas. (“OH”)
B: Three days. (“YEAH”)
( . . . )
T: I seen that on “20/20” the other night. This lady had people screaming in her head. She’d hear a voice in her head telling her to die and to eat (“SHH”) — he’d say, “Eat S – H – I – T and die” over and over.
B: It’s sad. (“BUT IT’S”)
T: It’s something about the brain.
Y: Mom, I need pop.
B: If I heard one of those, I’d want to slit my wrists.
Q: Joan of Arc heard voices that led her.
T: Really? (“MY MAN”)
Q: And apparently — well, this is sort of weird too because the voice told her a secret that she told the king and it was something nobody else could possibly know. (“HMMM” “OH”) So you’re lucky you don’t hear voices, anyway. (“YEAH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING IS FROM THE BELL WITCH: A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT BY CHARLES BAILEY BELL, M.D. IN HIS BOOK, HE COMPARES JOAN OF ARC WITH BETSY BELL, QUOTING GUIZOT; ALAN CHARTIER; AND M. WALLON.)
When about thirteen years of age, she began hearing voices, telling her she could free her country and crown Charles king. These voices she described and told what was said; she told Charles that she knew a prayer which he had made, some years before, and repeated it to him. He knew no one had ever heard the prayer, so was convinced of Joan’s mission and divine aid. . . . she claimed when a young girl to have heard voices of angels directing her to deliver France from its enemies; that she so delivered France through divine directions, and only erred when, after repeated urging, she continued in the army after her work was completed.
M: I used to have a different pair of glasses. Michael used to say I looked like a cat in them. He hasn’t said anything about these.
T: If I had to get glasses those are the ones I’d get. (she indicates my sunglasses) (“I LIKE THOSE” “I”)
M: I’ve got cataracts. When it first got started he brought a big blanket and put it in there. And they slept on that. A woman in Tupelo made him a red pillow. She asked them what color of pillow he wanted and he told her. (“YEAH”) Yeah.
Q: Do you think it stays up there in the attic? When it’s around do you feel like an electro-magnetic —
T: Yeah.
M: That’s what he said.
T: That’s the way he felt. One of the producers was sitting here and he felt something like electricity around his legs. (“YEAH”) Then, they asked me if I ever got shocked a lot. (“MAYBE”)
Q: I’d like to see it in person, though.
M: That lamp used to shock us. It shocked me and Brenda when we went over and turned it on. (“WELL”) Michael turned that lamp off and on one night. We were sitting in here and he turned it off. Brenda said, “Oh turn it on.” “YEAH, I KNOW. SCREW YOU TOO BRENDA. WE CAN SIT IN THE DARK.”
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: FAMILY MEMBERS CAN BE HEARD LAUGHING ON THE TAPE HERE.)
B: What’s a little dark?
M: To getting killed.
Q: Now it’s getting mellower.
B: I think that’s exactly what he’s doing.
Q: Has anyone ever gone against what it says? (“HELL YEAH”)
B: Bill has. He went in there and turned it off.
Q: And what happened to him?
B: Nothing.
M: (to Megan) Honey, I don’t have any pop. You want some tea?
Q: That’s good.
B: I want a little bit.
Q: His bark is worse than his bite.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MARLA, NICKNAMED FAE AND DESIGNATED ‘F,’ ENTERS.)
B: There she is.
M: That’s the one you were talking to, Mark.
Q: Hi.
F: Hi.
Q: Nice meeting you.
F: You too.
B: Marla. (“OOOHHHH”)
T: Fae. Know what I mean?
Q: Call her Fae?
J: She’s called Fae.
M: They went in there to the attic a while ago and a penny hit. (“YOU KNOW”) A nail hit him.
Q: A nail hit me later on. It’s right here.
M: I wish people would clean up their mess just when they make a mess. Look here.
T: I don’t know who did that. I got a piece of tomato but I didn’t cut it up.
M: I think Kim was making a sandwich in the sink.
T: She’s the one that did it then.
B: Kim is going to have to start cleaning her own things.
Q: What we’re talking about encompasses so many different elements. Like the visits in the cemetery.
T: We do that all the time. Stay here tonight and we’ll go to the cemetery.
Q: What happens when you stay at the cemetery?
T: Sometimes nothing but sometimes its bad.
Q: Is that where the bad spirits are?
T: Yeah.
Q: At the cemetery? (“YEAH”)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ERIC BRINGS IN A BUSINESS CARD FROM OUTSIDE THAT I HAD SEEN PINNED TO THE WALL SOON AFTER I ARRIVED.)
E: . . . a straight pin.
M: This was hanging right here.
E: Remember? We found —
M: Ohh. He found this outside just now.
Q: Oh my God.
M: It was hanging up there a while ago.
T: Who had it? (laughs) Let’s play baseball with it.
K: Oh gosh.
M: That’s a work number for that security guard woman that used to come out here when LMNO was here.
Q: Did you ever — (“LIKE”) what is the nail that it threw at me? I don’t know where it came from.
M: Just now?
Q: No, a while ago.
T: It hit him on the head.
Q: Where did it come from?
M: We got nails around here.
J: He probably took it off of one of the fields.
T: He’s slowly taking them from out of the house. (laughs)
Q: This will be my lucky nail.
M: This was hanging right here a while ago because I saw it. (“OH NO”)
Q: I bet it has a lot of pennies up there. It threw a penny at me. (“YEAH”) Wouldn’t it be funny if someday you go up there and there are, like, a million dollars in pennies?
M: Yeah.
Q: (laughs) (“YEAH”)
M: I wish I could find all the money he got from me. (“YEAH”) And Twyla.
Q: Did you ask him to give it back?
M: Yeah, but he won’t do it.
Q: He’s probably spent it somewhere.
M: He said he was collecting rent.
T: That wasp won’t be able to fly no more. (laughs)
Q: Collecting rent. Do you think he lived here at one time?
M: He owes me rent. I don’t owe him.
T: That’s what I told you. The kitchen was added on from another house. An old house. (SH)
Q: Do you think that’s what he meant?
M: I don’t know what to think.
T: I don’t know.
Q: He says everything. So many different things. I’m going to have to figure this out.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I STUDY THE BUSINESS CARD THAT WAS BROUGHT INSIDE.)
Q: Now that was hanging here and then it was found outside. (“I TOOK IT”) That’s really very, very strange.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I SHOW THE FAMILY A MYSTERIOUS SPIRIT / THE BELL WITCH OF TENNESSEE BY CHARLES BAILEY BELL [A DESCENDENT] / HARRIET PARKS MILLER.)
Q: By the way, this is one of the books that came out about the Bell Witch.
T: Cool. (“YOU”)
Q: You can get them anywhere. They’re not valuable.
K: That’s about something like this, isn’t it?
Q: These are in public domain. (“YEAH AND ANOTHER THING — THAT WAS”) This is one of the books that was published.
F: That might have been a brochure.
B: I wonder what his book will be.
M: Who?
B: Michael’s. (“YOU’RE WRITING A BOOK” “YEAH — WHY”)
M: You’re daggum right. (“OH IT”)
K: We’ve never done a book without Daddy. Why should we write some of it and not let him do it? (“DAMN”)
T: He don’t want us to be that way.
Q: Here’s my manuscript that I finished right before I read about your case.
T: My gosh.
Q: The first part is about Julia Pastrana. Did I bring a picture of her? I guess not. The second half is all about talking poltergeists.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I READ A PORTION FROM MY PREVIOUS MANUSCRIPT ENTITLED TESTAMENT REGISTERED FOR COPYRIGHT IN MAY 1995.)
Q: When it first came they could hear a perfect hurling in the air above the house. Hurling in the air — whatever that meant. Like throwing. Then (“THEY TOOK”) the sound they heard was like peas upon boards, the shoeing of horses, names were imitated. It stopped while his wife was going to give birth to a child. It was being nice and didn’t want to cause any problems during that time.
M: (to Megan) Ssshhh. Be quiet.
T: (to Megan) That’s enough. Find her something, Michael.
Q: There was rough scratching on the bed frame as if by iron talons.
M: Sometimes when Twyla and I would lay down the mattress would start shaking.
T: He threw those things at us at night. (laughs) He’s going to stay here.
Q: And there was a sulphurous smell. They complained of a sulphurous smell. This was early on.
T: We would step out and smell something dead and then, right afterward, we would smell roses like rose perfume.
Q: Was that early in the case?
T: Yeah. That was quite a while ago.
Q: That was one of the first things.
T: Every night we’d smell it. Something dead and then rose perfume.
Q: Every night. These are all classic haunting scenarios.
Y: Hello. (“HELLO”)
Q: What about strange lights?
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: SPIRIT WHISPERING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
T: Yeah. We followed it down to the cemetery.
M: We followed a green light. Green lights and red lights.
T: Heather got chased out of the bedroom by a green light. We’ve had yellow lights following us.
M: What are you taking, Jerry?
R: Nothing.
B: That’s something.
T: Corn and everything.
B: Edna brought a big bowl of pork and beans and a big thing of corn.
M: Bless her heart.
B: She said, “Tonight, I can’t bring them. See you tomorrow.”
M: Edna, you’ve brought enough.
T: Brought all that yesterday . . .
M: Sharon wrote me out a check for $15 . . .
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: MORE SPIRIT WHISPERING CAN BE HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE.)
F: Did you ever get that spoon back from Kim?
M: Oh yeah. I’ve got it right here. (“UH-UH”)
Q: (to Megan) Cute. (“YEAH” “IT” “I THINK”)
F: Ooh, I like that. I was just playing with your shirt here.
Q: Everyone says like, “What are those?” They don’t mean anything.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THIS REFERS TO THE DESIGNS ON THE NINO CERRUTI SPORT SHIRT I WAS WEARING.)
T: I thought it was birds.
F: I think it’s pretty.
Q: I thought they were people once doing —
M: Yeah. It looks like it.
Q: — acrobatic things but it isn’t.
M: Did you see the plant he brought?
F: Uh-uh.
M: It’s beautiful.
T: I like plants better than flowers. At least they last.
Q: I guess that’s why she recommended this one.
T: You have to sit here and eat something. Do you like pizza or do you like corn on the cob?
Q: I like anything.
T: Tomato. (“OHH”) We’ve got plenty of tomatoes.
Q: At least, there’s one thing it hasn’t done like in the other cases. It hasn’t claimed to be Satan or the Devil.
T: No. No.
Q: That’s good. (laughs) (“NO”)
T: We would have done less if that was true.
B: With everything that Michael did already, I want to go up there to the cemetery with you all.
T: I’m going tonight when Steve gets here.
M: I’m going to go get Bill late this evening. (“THAT’S GOOD”)
F: I have to be home by six or seven. (“HOME”)
( . . . )
F: I thought, “These things don’t really happen.” (“YOU KNOW”) After she got to telling me about it, I started coming over more often. Hey, I believed and I believe now.
Q: Did you keep a diary or write down some of the things that happened?
M: She don’t ever write stuff down.
F: No. I wish I had.
Q: Well, you’ll remember some of the things.
F: It’s real interesting. I like to come down here because Michael sleeps with you and he throws things at you.
Q: It’s been quite an experience. (“YOU KNOW”)
F: Yeah, but the first time he ever hit me in the ear with an egg, it hurt. I cried.
Q: What did he hit you with?
F: An egg. But it’s weird. They come out of the icebox (“NO”) and you can’t see them.
T: Another thing is when the rocks hit the wall they hit hard. But when they hit you (“THEY DON’T”) they don’t hurt. They carry such speed and they don’t hurt. Strange.
F: Yeah, it’s really strange. (“WELL”)
Q: What I’m most interested in is that business about the other spirits that it talks about and the way everything correlates. I think the important part of the story here is —
T: We have one that stays down in the cellar.
Q: — connecting all the dots. What?
T: We have one that stays down in the cellar. (“YEAH”) It’s called Leader. Mom, we forgot to tell him about Leader.
F: Oh my goodness.
T: He’s supposed to be the head one. He is huge. He moved the refrigerator into the (“BEAM THEM UP”) middle of the kitchen (“FIVE YEARS LATER”) one time. The same refrigerator. (“THAT’S RIGHT”) And he’s huge.
F: He’s got a real weird voice. Scary.
T: Heather was cold one day (“UM-UH”) and she said she felt arms around her. She said he felt big. I forgot about Leader, Mom. (“TELL HIM”)
M: That’s right — (“HEATHER”) Leader.
T: And he stays down in the cellar most of the time. He growls.
F: Heather, come here.
T: He doesn’t have a high pitch. He grunts, growls and groans. (“BUT IT’S”) Different.
F: (to Heather) Remember that time you were cold and Leader put his arms around you?
H: Um-huh.
F: Tell him about that. (“LEADER PUSHED”)
H: I was sitting right here. I was standing here at the dishwasher all cold and then I felt this big old figure around me. (“BUT”) And I took off running because I got scared.
Q: What did it feel like? (“I”)
H: Like something big.
Q: Was it like wool? How would you describe it? A wooly substance?
H: It was kind of like skin or something like that.
Q: Was it hot?
H: Not really.
Q: Just big but invisible.
H: Yeah.
T: Did he have clothes on him? (“WAS IT EVEN”)
H: No, not really.
Q: Was it even or did it curve?
H: I can’t tell, really. It was weird though.
Q: And it’s name was Leader?
H: Uh-huh.
Q: How many different ones would you say there were altogether?
H: About —
Y: No.
H: — seven, I guess.
Y: No.
H: I don’t know.
Q: Interesting. How do you feel living with that? Just one of those things I guess. (To Kim) Have you had any interaction with ‘Leader’?
K: Yeah. He doesn’t talk.
Q: He’s different from Michael.
T: He just groans or growls and clears the room pretty quick.
Q: How did he get the name Leader?
T: That’s what they said he was.
Q: The other ones called him Leader.
K: They said that there was a leader. One time Michael had Mama take —
M: I went up to Coalgate, which is the county seat in Coal County, because he needed to go to the courthouse.
T: So Mama and Frieda took him. He said, “JUST DRIVE AND I’LL GET BACK HERE WHEN I GET BACK HERE.” He said he had to get some papers from the courthouse and that they have UFOs (“THAT JESUS”) that the United States cannot have because if they found out, Michael can’t be out here no more. His leaders told him to keep everybody denying. That’s why he can’t show himself because everybody will come and get him. NASA will come and get them. So Mama went to Coalgate and dropped him off. And he got back in and he said, “OKAY, I GOT ‘EM. GO.” And he took them.
Q: Did you see the papers?
T: No. You hear him going “DADADADADADA” — talking like a million miles an hour. He said he was talking to his people. (“YEAH”) You can’t understand him.
Q: For all those alien aspects —
T: There are a lot of alien aspects.
Q: — what percentage of it would you say of the entire phenomena would be the alien aspects?
T: It’s more alien than ghost.
M: Yeah. I think so too.
Q: It’s more alien than ghost?
F: I think so.
M: We’ve done that two times — went down there and picked up papers. (“OH WELL”)
Q: That’s one other thing I was going to ask you. Has anyone ever had any missing time periods?
T: Missing what?
Q: Missing time.
M: I haven’t.
Q: That you can’t account for?
M: Time periods. (“YOU ARE RIGHT NOW”)
F: Did you tell him about that time you were in Ada (“HUH”) — what he was doing to you in the car (“HUH”) at the time he kept pushing your seat?
M: I had a little red dinky car one time.
T: What was it? (“WHAT WAS UH”)
M: I can’t think of the name of it. F: I can’t either.
M: It was a standard.
Q: What do you think about it?
M: They were going right downtown through Ada and he pulled her seat down and she just disappeared.
Q: Who?
M: Fae. He whispered and he pulled her seat down (small laugh) —
F: And there’s this son of that guy —
M: — from the back.
F: — that I picked up with her and I was sitting up in the seat. The next thing I knew he was looking over there and he was looking for me.
M: It was like she disappeared. Her seat was pulled back and she fell backwards.
F: And one night on the way to the cemetery when I was sitting in the front seat, something grabbed my foot directly under the dashboard. Oooooh. I didn’t like that.
Q: How old were you at the time?
F: Thirty-six.
Q: (to Twyla) How old were you at the time?
T: When it first started I was about eighteen or nineteen. I’m twenty-three now.
M: When it first started.
F: Oh, when it first started? (“NO”)
T: She was thirty-two so I was nineteen. That was just five years ago.
Q: You’re still definitely the focus. (“NO”) There’s so much else that goes on. I thought this was going to get more clear but it gets worse, doesn’t it? In terms of all the different entities and everything. (“COME UP”)
T: We’ve had people tell us, “Hey, we’ve seen them in the car with you.”
Q: “We’ve seen them?”
T: Me and my sister Kim were walking to town one night and it looked like Mom had about six or seven people in the car with her — my daughter and everybody. I thought, “Why is she taking all the kids to a phone booth when she needs to use the phone?” When we got there, nobody but Mom was in the car. I said, “Where’s all the people that were with you?” And she said, “It’s just me.” And once Mom was driving her car and Brenda was sitting behind her and saw a figure peering in. We’ve seen children. Our neighbors and friends have come up here and seen children in hospital gowns. There was supposed to have been an orphanage here — (“WHERE”)
F: — where they all died.
Q: On the premises?
T: Yeah. I seen a real blond-headed boy—almost like him but they weren’t here at the time—in a hospital gown. I’ve seen it plain to where it may be bald. (“RIGHT”)
Q: Right.
T: It’s strange. Think about this town. Years ago, the town was hit by a tornado and this town was in another spot. It was like several miles over. You know what the town’s name was before it was Centrahoma?
Q: What?
T: Owl. The town’s name was Owl.
Q: O — W — L? (“NO”) Where is this all going? (“QUEBEC”) I’m just trying to think in terms of the — (“YOU KNOW”) what I would like to think about is the chronology and the scope, which is quite unintelligible because there’s a gamut of material. (“UH-HUH”) And there are so many gothic elements.
T: Yeah.
Q: At least, I’ve read about these other cases so I can see certain parallels —
T: Oh yeah.
Q: — which (“SO”) help me. I’m trying to figure out the overall direction. There’s plenty of material here.
( . . . )
T: They wanted me to say, “I’m Twyla and for the past five years a ghost has been following me around.” I said, “I don’t know if it’s a ghost.” (“NO”) I said, “I’m not going to use that.” They said, “Well, what do you want to use?” So I said, “Supernatural being. I’m not using ghost because I don’t know (“RIGHT”) or think that’s what it is.”
Q: Good for you.
T: I’m not going to say something they want me to say when I don’t think that’s what it is.
Q: This was for “Put It To The Test”? (“YES”)
T: Uh-huh.
Q: But they haven’t shown you that tape?
T: Uh-uh.
Q: I can sort of see why. I guess they don’t have to do that but they could show you that tape just to let you see what it looks like.
T: Yeah.
Q: You had to sign a release for the TV show, didn’t you?
T: Uh-huh.
Q: A separate release.
T: Uh-huh.
Q: But see? Even if they do something with you (“SEE”) it’s probably going to be your name attached to something that they changed (“THAT’S RIGHT”) and they lied about. (“YOU KNOW”)
T: I told them, “You do not make me look like I am into witchcraft or I’m possessed. Do not make me look like that.”
Q: No matter what happens, just remember that you always have control over the material.
T: Even though they have the rights?
Q: You must. Yes.
T: Really?
( . . . )
(“WELL”)
Q: Well, that’s interesting. (“NO”) If you ever do find the copy of what you signed, I can send it to my attorney.
T: You can find it if you look.
M: I don’t have any idea right now.
Q: Don’t worry about it.
M: I’ll find it.
Q: It’s just for general terms. So there’s the flock of owls and this once was the town Owl. There’s so much here. Did anyone see a spaceship? Let’s get to the brass tax.
M: I haven’t.
T: The people that lived here before. (“WHAT FUN”)
Q: What landed on the roof of the car that time?
T: She didn’t see it. She just heard it. (“WHAT WAS IT”)
Q: But what was it?
M: It sounded like something light landed on the top with a motor.
Q: Well, that’s a UFO. (“YEAH”)
M: And my neighbor Frieda was with me. It felt like a little burden. (“REVERE”)
Q: Frieda’s your next-door neighbor?
M: Uh-huh. She don’t want anything to do with it.
Q: Well, of course not.
M: Her husband don’t want her in on this. (“NO”)
T: If he didn’t care, she’d be over here talking.
M: I know.
T: She had so much stuff happen to her.
Q: Well, I can understand.
T: I don’t care any more. (small laugh)
Q: I’m just trying to keep track of everyone. (“AH-HA”) That’s so interesting. You know, on Mars — everyone sees that face on Mars. In fact, there are some people now who even think that one of the moons of Mars is like a space pad.
T: Really?
Q: A synthetic moon because of the way it acts in terms of its gravitational pattern.
F: Did you have problems finding your way down here?
Q: Coming here? Not really.
T: It’s hard to find Centrahoma. (“YEAH”)
Q: Well, there was a sign. I always get into trouble when there isn’t a sign because I always look for signs.
F: You didn’t have to get a map or anything?
Q: Well, I have a map, thank God.
F: Yeah. (laughs) You need a map just in case?
Q: It’s pretty easy on a big highway. Things are on the map. But I had a problem getting to my hotel because my travel agent —
M: I like the way he put my name in here.
Q: — just told me Ada. I thought, “Oh, I’ll just get there and the hotel will be right there.”
F: Your ex-wife called him and that’s probably why he didn’t maybe.
Q: It was not. It was hard to find.
M: He said, “Do you want your name in on this?” And I said, “Yeah.”
Q: The hotel. One of the locals helped me.
F: Oh, that’s good. You’ll find it’s pretty nice over there.
M: When they preach it — that’s what he wants.
Q: What time is the funeral tomorrow?
F: Two o’clock. (to Maxine) I didn’t think they’d put your name in the papers.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: THERE ARE OVERLAPPING UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS HEARD ON THE TAPE HERE LIKE CATS MEOWING.)
T: I’ve got to clean my car out tonight.
Q: I think I would really like to go.
F: I still can’t see us with her. (to myself) Are you going to go tomorrow?
Q: I might. I would like to go, I think.
F: Yeah? (“WELL GRANDFATHER’S SICK” “I THINK HE’S GOING TO BE” “I SURE WOULD BE”)
Q: Your whole family’s going to be there?
T: He has no family left on his side, does he?
F: Yeah.
M: He just had a brother. (“THERE IS SOME”)
T: Will Bobbie come?
M: I doubt it.
F: I’ve been trying to get a hold of Jack and Frieda.
M: I said, “Bobbie’s father’s in the paper.” She ran up —
T: Does she still live in Coalgate? (“DADDY”)
M: Yeah. We just talked to her two days ago. Daggum her.
T: Steve ran a tag the other night and it turned out the car belonged to a Bobby Bell out of Winnetka, Oklahoma.
M: Her name’s Nichols now.
[2021 UPDATE: TWYLA'S ANECDOTE ABOUT AN APPARENT INSTANCE OF PSYCHIC PHENOMENA SHOWING AN ASPECT OF PRECOGNITION CORRELATES WITH AN INCIDENT DESCRIBED BY HAROLD SHERMAN IN HIS 1949 BOOK YOU LIVE AFTER DEATH , AS FOLLOWS:
I have always had a habit of stretching out on the cot in my study when I am doing creative work, relaxing and dropping off to sleep for a few minutes, then awakening refreshed and going back to the typewriter, resuming where I had left off.
One particular afternoon . . . I awakened with a start to hear my wife Martha, who had been out shopping, about to enter the apartment, keys rattling in the door. My small daughter Mary was with her, and because Martha usually had her arms full of bundles, it had been my practice to go to the door and let her in.
This time, as I exerted the will to get up, my physical body seemed paralyzed. But something in me did respond, for I suddenly found myself bumping up against the closed door of my study!I had no consciousness of being in a body or having form, at the door, but I was shocked as I looked back and saw my physical body lying on the cot!
This was a totally new experience and it frightened me. I relinquished my intent to go to the door and suddenly discovered myself back in my physical body, struggling to gain control of it.Again there was the sound of keys in the lock, and once more I tried to respond, only to have this same phenomenon occur! I was out of my body, at the door of my room. I hit up against it with a strange, mentally bruising force.
I saw my body on the cot and this sensation was so terrifying that I abandoned my urge to answer the door with one thought in mind: to return to the body. This time I succeeded and was relieved to find I could move.
But now I heard Martha coming down the hall, with Mary running ahead of her into the living room and snapping on the radio. On came a jazz orchestra selection.
I rose to a sitting position and got unsteadily to my feet. My mind seemed somewhat dazed, but, as it cleared, I was startled by a sudden realization:
Martha and Mary weren't in the apartment!
They hadn't come home yet!
The radio was not on!
While I was standing, trying to figure this out, I actually did hear the keys in the lock. I was too astounded to move.
Now Mary was running down the hall. I could hear the patter of her feet.
Snap! There went the radio on, bringing in the very orchestra selection I had heard a few moments before!
This entire scene had taken place in my consciousness before it had really happened!]
