RADIO INTERVIEW — TAPE #781
Q: Mark Russell BellA: taped announcerL: Lan Lamphere, host of “The Edge” radio showR: Ruth, callerP: Paul Chambers, “CNN Radio Update” newscasterN: Anthony Romero, ACLU (news clip)B: Robert, callerC: Cheryl Castro, “CNN Radio World News” newscasterJ: Jordan’s foreign minister/unnamed (news clip)G: President George W. Bush (news clip)M: Jamie McIntyre, “CNN Radio World News” reporterH: Richard Roth, “CNN Radio World News” reporter(X): (unattributed sounds occasionally noted as samples)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: I HAD HEARD LAN LAMPHERE, AS A PROFESSIONAL STORMCHASER, INTERVIEWED BY ART BELL YEARS AGO SO I WAS SURPRISED WHEN I DISCOVERED HE WAS NOW HOSTING A PARANORMAL-THEMED RADIO SHOW IN OKLAHOMA. I SENT EMAIL WITH THE SUBJECT HEADING “AVAILABLE FOR INTERVIEW [NEWS RELEASE ABOUT MYSELF]” TO THE EXECUTIVE PRODUCER OF “THE EDGE” ON APRIL 22, 2003 AND IMMEDIATELY RECEIVED A REPLY FROM DAVE ALLEN THAT THE EARLIEST DATE FOR THE INTERVIEW WOULD BE APRIL 25 AT 2 OR 3 A.M. I CONSENTED BUT HEARD NO RESPONSE SO ON MAY 14TH I SENT A FOLLOW-UP E-MAIL WITH A COPY TO LAN LAMPHERE. ON MAY 19TH I RECEIVED EMAIL FROM TAIRA MCKENZIE, ADVISING ME SHE WAS “NOW THE PRODUCER FOR THE EDGE, DAVE WAS FIRED. LAN ASKED ME TO CONTACT YOU FOR AN INTERVIEW.” I SPOKE WITH TAIRA AND SENT HER A COPY OF THE PAPERBACK FIRST EDITION OF TESTAMENT. ON FRIDAY, MAY 30TH I RECEIVED EMAIL THAT I WAS BOOKED FOR THE MONDAY NIGHT/TUESDAY MORNING SHOW AND TAIRA CONFIRMED THIS WITH A PHONE CALL RECEIVED BY MY MOTHER WHILE I WAS AT WORK. THERE WAS ALSO A CONFIRMATION BY EMAIL FROM TAIRA SAYING “I CALLED YOUR WIFE AND TOLD HER THAT WE WILL BE CALLING YOU AT APPROXIMATELY 12:30A.M. CENTRAL TIME TONIGHT (TOMORROW MORNING). LOOK FORWARD TO TALKING TO YOU.” KEVIN FROM “THE EDGE” CALLED ME SOMEWHAT EARLIER THAN THIS, WAKING ME UP AS I HAD FALLEN ASLEEP. I HAD TO PLACE A NEW MICROCASSETTE IN THE TAPE RECORDER AS I DISCOVERED THE OTHER ONE IMMEDIATELY JAMMED. THE GUESTS DURING THE FIRST HOUR OF THE SHOW WERE A COUNTRY WESTERN SINGER NAMED BRIDGET JONES AND HER REPRESENTATIVE, AMY GARDNER. THE TRANSCRIPT OF THE BROADCAST BEGINS AFTER THE CONCLUSION OF THEIR SEGMENT OF THE SHOW. PORTIONS OF THIS TRANSCRIPT WERE TRANSCRIBED FROM THE ARCHIVE OF THE SHOW AT WWW.THE-EDGE.WS THAT I DOWNLOADED WITHOUT CHARGE THE WEEK FOLLOWING THE INTERVIEW; LAN’S CURRENT WEBSITE IS HTTP://WWW.LANLAMPHERE.COM.)
A: To reach Lan Lamphere, call (gives number) or you can reach “The Edge” on our toll-free number at (gives number). (bumper music)
L: My name’s Lan Lamphere and you are listening to “The Edge.” Yeah, that’s Yanni. A lot of people don’t like Yanni but I do. I know it sounds weird but I do. I really do. I like Yanni a lot. Thanks, Kevin. Appreciate that. Here in just a little bit we’ve got Mark Russell Bell who’s going to be coming up and joining us on “The Edge.” And this is an interesting individual. I will tell you that much. He’s — he’s known worldwide for a lot of different things. And I guess I got him on the line. That’s cool. He’s going to be on the air in just a little bit. He has a new book out called Testament. It’s a nonfiction book with — it’s based like — I’ve looked at it — it’s — it’s like a question and answer interview kind of journalistic format. The subjects include poltergeists, aliens, bigfoot, synchronicity, angels, prophecies, reincarnation, psychic abilities — I guess the Oneness of Spirit, Pop culture, Christ Consciousness, and events pertaining to what is sometimes referred to as the Second Coming, which I’m very interested in. I’m going to get Mark on here in just a little bit. I don’t mean to leave him alone but I’ve got some news I’ve got to read first. That’s — hey, you guys aren’t going to believe this. No alien babies found in Wyoming, I guess. This is interesting. Casper, Wyoming — (small laugh) the headlines raised some eyebrows but authorities said there’s no evidence an alien baby has been found in Casper. Apparently, some idiot has said that there’s an alien running around in Casper, Wyoming. According to a story published in the Weekly World News tabloid — now this is a tabloid — local rancher Phil Merleson found a scaly-skinned (X) infant on the floor of his barn May 7th after hearing a humming sound emanating from the building. (X) The story added that the mysterious lights were seen in the area that previous night. The creature, the paper reported, has two brains and three hearts. Now you’ve got to keep in mind where this came from, okay? This came from the Weekly World News. It’s supposed to be in good health and can produce high frequency wails capable of shattering glass. I think this story made another radio program that is similar to “The Edge” and I’m kind of disclaiming that right now with this story. Included with the story were several photographs allegedly taken from a video shot by Merleson’s wife, Cynthia. (X) Okay. An FBI agent, Ann — I think this is how you say this — Atanasio said the agency was not aware of any alien babies discovered in the territory covering Wyoming and Colorado and denied any involvement with such a case. (“UN”) So I don’t know. I don’t think that I’ll be taking that very seriously if I were you guys. There’s a lot of people — I actually got two or three Emails in regard to this story (X) and here — there it is. It’s not true. It’s not out there. It’s not true and if they’ve got a problem with it, they can give me a call up here at the station and let me know about it. And, by the way, the phone lines are open tonight. If you would like to give us a call, if you call (gives number) — oh excuse me, what am I saying — (gives number) or that’s (gives number) if you’ve got any comments or anything. I think I’ve got Ruth on the phone . . . Hi, Ruth. How’s it going? Well she’s not ready yet. Oh we’ll get her ready — she loves something or another. Anyway, Ruth will be joining us here in just a moment. And then we’ve got Mark Russell Bell coming up. Hey, Ruth, welcome to “The Edge.”
R: Hi. I just wanted to call you up and say sometimes you drive me crazy but then sometimes I just absolutely love you. (laughs)
L: You do? Why is that?
R: You’re sitting here, you’re doing this really nice interview with this lung — young lady that’s trying to make a start in music —
R: — and then you come out and say how you hate Country and Western music —
L: Well that’s okay. You know, that’s my opinion. I don’t like Country music.
R: That’s — I don’t particularly like Country and Western music either —
L: Well what are you bitching me out about?
R: That’s why I let you know when you said — when you said that, I go, “Yes!” (laughs)
L: (small laugh)
R: I’m sorry.
L: That’s okay. Well there’s nothing to be sorry about. I mean some people like Country and Western music and I don’t. I — I like her. And it was like Carol was saying to Taira, she’s like — and she pointed out very clearly that it was more popish type Country and Western rather than, you know, being strictly cry in your beer whatever the hell she said type music.
L: And I don’t — I — I never have liked that. My grandfather used to play with Hank Williams, Sr. when he was doing — you know, Hank Williams didn’t get really big until he was dead, okay? And then everybody wanted to be or know Hank Williams Sr. because of Hank Williams Jr. Well here’s the thing. I — I — I — I never did like that style of music because I grew up with it because of my grandfather. He used to sit back and play his guitar, God rest his soul, and he loved it. That was him. But I didn’t like it.
R: That soun(ds) — you sound like you come from the same back — background. I’m a lot older but I had uncles who would hit all the little — you know, play behind the chicken wire.
R: You know, and that’s what I heard and that’s what we heard on the radio. And I just — as I get older I appreciate the older stuff better. But I don’t —
L: Well I do too. I appreciate Limp Bizkit.
R: I’m —
L: I appreciate Metallica. I appreciate both those guys.
R: Yeah, I — you know, I — Leon Russell. Leon Russell was in the Student Union at OU when I was at OU. “Up on the high wire.” Because that’s what I —
L: Oh right, yeah.
R: That’s what I grew up on, you know.
R: So I like that. But I just wanted to call and tell you thank you very much and — (“AND LOVE”) and I — I’m listening along — listening along and — and, you know, I — I wish her well.
L: Well she’s doing great. She’s out here on the outside of a fish bowl just sitting here listening to us and I —
L: — think she’s going do really, really, really well.
R: I mean — I — she shouldn’t take — take my opinion with any — any credibility because I haven’t bought a Country and Western album since the trio.
L: Well maybe you need to get this one.
R: Maybe I need to.
L: Yeah, Bridgette Ward.
R: Dolly Parton and Linda Ronstadt — I mean that’s the last Country and Western album I ever bought.
L: Right, this — I — listen, I don’t even like Country and Western music. And this — I do like this. Bridgette really has got it together here. She’s had a — a great team behind her including Amy Gardner who is a friend of mine. And she — she rocks. I mean that’s the bottom line.
R: Well I think — I think it’s wonderful that you — you let them on. I really wa(nt) — appreciate that. And I just want to say one more thing —
L: You know, I wanted them on.
R: — you have great courage in saying what you said Friday — Wednesday night —
L: What’s that?
R: — I think when you say — when you were talking about heaven and you said, “Quite honestly, (X) heaven sounds like a bore.”
L: Yeah, it does to me.
R: (laughs) That’s right. I mean that’s just what I want to say — I admire you. That’s —
L: Well —
R: — you know, fantastic.
L: Well thank you and I do appreciate that. There are a lot of people who hate my guts.
R: No no no.
L: Oh yeah. Hell yeah. (small laugh) They do. They really d(o) — there are a lot of people who disagree with me completely across the board. And that’s okay. That’s their God-given right. That’s the reason why I appreciate living in the United States of America because you have the right to freedom of speech. And that’s what “The Edge” is about is get on here and say it like you want to. No one’s gong to stop you. I don’t even screen phone calls. I won’t let anybody screen phone calls. Give me your name and what you want. That’s all I need.
R: Yeah. (or “YEAH”)
L: You know?
R: Well keep it up. And I’m listening.
L: Alright, hon.
R: Okay, bye-bye.
L: I’ll talk to you later on. Thanks for calling “The Edge.” She’s — well she’s gone. (laughs) There we go. Anyway, yeah, Bridgette Ward. And if you get an opportunity, go to Hastings. You can go out to the Student Union and pick up the CD. It’s Bridgette Ward, it’s called “Cruise Control.” She’s been our guest here for the past hour or so — great, great lady. And she’s beautiful too. If you get an opportunity to see her, go do it. Whatever you do. Go do it. You can go to her website also at bridgetteward.com and — that’s bridgetteward.com and pick it up. I think it’s $9.95 cents wherever you get it so that’s — that’s what we’re doing. Anyway, thanks Ruth, I appreciate that call. And this is something else. I was going to do some news and I got — Mark Russell Bell’s coming up here in just a little bit. And this is from Reuter’s. Now Reuter’s is respectable. A German woman . . . I’m not going to say this. A German woman has partially severed her husband’s penis when she quarreled with him after sex, police in Southern — the southern town of Konstanz said on Monday. Why is this relevant? I don’t know. It was just handed to me. In an incident — (laughs) in an incident recalling the maiming of former U.S. Marine John Wayne Bobbit who temporarily lost his penis in a similar attack, the woman, 43, sliced her 34-year-old husband’s member with a (X) carpenter knife, police said. They just had their bit of hanky panky and she went for him with a knife. Now, man, that’s got to give this guy a serious complex. The bleeding man drove himself to the hospital for emergency surgery. The outcome has not been known as of yet. The woman fled to a restaurant where police arrested her. She was later released. Police said the motive for the attack was unclear. I got a feeling I know what the motive for the attack is but we’re not going to go there tonight. I just don’t think it’s probably a good idea. So anyway — I’m just getting stuff handed to me left and right here. What is this? In Para— at Paramount — oh, this is for Mark Russell Bell. Okay. Actually Mark Russell Bell is actually on the phone. Now this is — this gentleman is — I have not had an opportunity to meet him or talk with him prior to the program so we’re going to do that right now. We’re going to find out what he’s all about. Hey, Mark, you on “The Edge”?
Q: Here I am, Lan.
L: Hi. How’re you doing?
Q: I’m doing very well.
L: Glad to hear that. Man, I’ve got your book. Man, this is a huge book.
Q: And the(re’s) —
L: I mean really — Testament is the biggest book I think I’ve seen in a long time for a guest who’s coming on our program. And it’s kind of hard to follow. I’m not going to sit here and pretend it’s not. And it — it really is. Would you do me a favor and give me an overview what this is all about?
Q: Yes, I will. First of all, I want to say that the entire book is free of charge on the Internet at my website testament.org. And also I have a follow-up book that was originally published on the Internet at the website as well. What happened is my experiences were so unusual that I decided to go ahead and publish them in a documentary style with question and answer interviews and my journals to allow people to make up their own minds about the events that I was reporting. You might say that I’m one of those people who had experienced some strange — what we call paranormal events —
Q: — as a chi(ld) —
L: Have you had a lot of paranormal events take place in your lifetime?
Q: Yes, but it wasn’t until I actually went to Oklahoma that I actually began to understand their significance.
Q: I had had some childhood events and I was working in Hollywood at the time. And then I had published — well I had written — I hadn’t published (X) the book but I’d researched talking poltergeists throughout history.
Q: So when I was finishing my manuscript I learned about a contemporary family experiencing the talking poltergeist phenomena there in Centrahoma, Oklahoma. So I — I went to interview the family.
Q: And the things that I experienced there during that weekend — I was then able to look back at the events in my life and the cases I had studied and begin connecting the dots, so to speak.
L: Right. You’re talking about the Mc Wethy family in central — Centralhoma — Centrahoma, Oklahoma.
Q: That’s right.
L: Centrahoma is actually a town and it is located here in Oklahoma. And they had, from what I understand, a poltergeist that not only throw — it threw rocks, it — I don’t know, it kind of appeared in some photographs of the family. What other things did it do?
Q: Well they told me that the Entity, which they called Michael —
Q: — would even discuss — have discussions with people in a disembodied form. When I was there, I witnessed — and plus there were other entities manifesting. There were different recognizable spirits and actually alien — apparent alien beings who would talk about plans for a flying saucer over in the ne(xt) (or “THE NE”) — the nearby town of Coalgate.
L: Coalgate, Oklahoma? Flying saucers in Coalgate?
Q: Right. Apparently, the — the courthou(se) — one of the disembodied voices was talking about plans at a courthouse there and at one point asked the mother, Maxine, to take the alien to the courthouse to get these plans. Anyway, there were all these different voices and they would — the family got to know a few of them and would name them various names like Rachel was one of them. But the entire gamut of phenomena they nicknamed Michael. And one of the manifesting spirits was (“AA”) a child named Michael —
Q: — who apparently had been killed by his mother. So there was this — all these different anecdotes revolving around spirits. And the main one being ‘Michael.’ Now the family themselves found more alien aspects to the haunting phenomena than anything else. (X) By the time some television documentary producers came to interview them, of course the producers wanted to get poltergeist —
Q: — details because that was the more commercial aspect.
Q: So (or “SO”) by the time I got there — I was just — I had finished my book so I just wanted to get as much information as I could because I had researched the Bell Witch of Tennessee.
Q: And —
L: And that was an extraordinary case.
Q: It was (“IT WA”) and it was a very well-documented case.
L: Right. So what piqued your interest in to the Mc Wethy family? I mean outside of your book. I mean you just said that you had finished your book and then you went out there. Did you add this to it later?
Q: Well — if you’ll notice in the book (“I[T]”) I begin with a Fortean Times magazine article featuring the family.
L: Right. That’s exactly what piqued my interest.
Q: Well this was — this was the article I, myself, found just after finishing my manuscript so I thought, “Oh well now I have a really good (“CH”) chance to see this phenomena in person.” And you have to remember I had researched the Bell Witch and also The Haunting of Cashen’s Gap —
Q: That’s why in my first interview with Maxine, I asked about the nickname ‘Pots’ because in The Haunting of Cashen’s Gap — (“WHICH” X) happened — it was published in London in 1936. The haunting Entity which manifested a few times as a mongoose — a talking mongoose — would call the father of the family whose name was Mr. Irving ‘Pots.’ And the same nickname had been used by the Bell Witch with one of the family members there in early 19th Century Tennessee. So that was one of my first questions was, “What nicknames has the haunting (X) Spirit been calling you?”
Q: And so anyway, af(ter) (or “AF” X) I’d even done a screenplay based on the Bell Witch case because I was working at Paramount Pictures at the time. In fact, that’s really why I was working at Paramount was because I wanted to develop my — my screenwriting career.
Q: I’d also been —
L: From what I understand, if I’m not mistaken and tell me if I’m wrong, Mark. At Paramount, you contributed to the publicity campaigns for more than a hundred films including “Ghost,” several “Star Trek” films, which I’m — I’m a big Trekker or Trekkee, “Scrooged,” “Dead Again,” and a — a resurrection or reissue of “The Ten Commandments,” “The Butcher’s Wife,” “Fatal Attraction,” “The Godfather, Part III,” “Forrest Gump,” “Braveheart,” “Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade,” and “We’re No Angels.” Is that right?
Q: Those were some of them.
L: Some of them. Okay, basically you were in the publicity department and you were working to get all of this stuff out —
Q: Yeah (or “YEAH”) —
L: — but you’re not a screenwriter, were you?
Q: Well I’d always — I’d been a screenwriter for a number of years —
Q: — where I’d experienced having a screenplay ready to go and then at the last moment the company losing the money or the connections not really working out for various reasons. And I always (X) felt that, “Well I have really good quality screenplays and what they’re making is crap.”
Q: So what’s going on here? Well —
L: I don’t know. What’s going on?
Q: Well — exactly. So when I was working at Para(mount) — and I’d always had these bizarre experiences in my life. For example, I had burning bushes outside my hou(se) —
L: Oh wait a minute, that’s Moses.
Q: Exa(ctly) — (“WW”) thank you.
Q: You know, I had all these religious symbols (“IN MY”) in my life. I was an identical twin, to begin with.
L: Um-huh. What is — does that make you a religious symbol? What is that about? What is this identical twin? That’s just like what? I mean luck of the draw, isn’t it?
Q: Well there’s — when you’re — when you’re a twin, other people regard you as being very unusual when, of course, it’s just the experience — (“IT’S ONLY”) the only experience you’ve had so you really don’t really know what to compare it with. Now, of course, people compare it to cloning. There’s a lot I can say about it. I mean I know in the Dead Sea Scrolls there’s a lot made of Thomas the Twin. Apparently, there’s speculation that Jesus and Judas Thomas were twins. Anyway, so I had — I was a twin. I had researched one interesting case regarding a young woman in France who had experienced religious ecstasies or raptures, you might say — two raptures of Christ. And then I myself had experienced the same thing. And at the time I was thinking, “This might have something to do with my research.”
L: How — what exactly — what do you mean by words “raptures of Christ.” What exactly is that?
Q: Well if you refer to medieval literature, there are people who would experience some of the same trials, let’s say, that Jesus himself underwent.
L: You mean like stigmata?
Q: There’s a whole gamut of different things. (“I”) I — somehow I remember the movie “The Devils” — I don’t know if you ever saw that movie.
L: I don’t think so.
Q: And I’ve — I’ve since stopped going to the movies, by the way.
L: Because of that movie? It must’ve been a bad movie —
Q: Well no — not because of — of that movie. But just after all my experiences and working in Hollywood, I really — especially in — when I — when I’ve been experiencing some of the phenomena, I just found myself (X) repeating a lot of punchlines in movies and comparing my experience to movies. And I just felt — and there’s a lot of negativity in movies, a lot of ugly thoughts, a lot of ugly situations. And working — especially when you’re working as a publicist, you really do see how you can manipulate the press by — in terms of try(ing) — like my job was positioning films and basically telling the press how to interpret films.
Q: One of the best examples of that is the movie “Braveheart,” which was not a very historically accurate movie yet the presskit which I was in charge of highlighted the historical aspects of —
L: I enjoyed “Braveheart.” I thought it was very accurate.
Q: Well if you refer to the real Wallace —
Q: — you’ll find he looked nothing like Mel Gibson.
L: Well of course he didn’t. He’s an actor.
Q: But he was also — he was — I mean I — I think even people in Scotland would see him as a raping, pillaging pig.
L: Okay, look. Hold that thought.
L: We’ve got to go out to break, okay?
L: Hang on just a little bit. You’re listening to “The Edge.” My name’s Lan Lamphere and on the phone we’ve got Mark Russell Bell. We’ll be back in just a moment with more of me and “The Edge.” (unidentified bumper music)
( . . . )
P: “CNN Radio Update.” I’m Paul Chambers. The U.S. Justice Department’s inspector general has found numerous abuses of the rights of U.S. detainees following the 9-11 attacks. The claims include verbal and physical abuses by government officials.
N: The inspector general goes quite far to say that notwithstanding the difficulty and the hectic events that followed after 9-11, that the Justice Department went too far too fast.
P: Anthony Romero is with the American Civil Liberties Union. The Justice Department says there will be no apologies for the abuses. President Bush is in Egypt preparing for a summit with Arab leaders Tuesday. He hopes to win support for his Mideast peace plan. U.S. intelligence officials say the CIA will soon release to Congress its overall classified report on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction program. Congressional critics of the FCC’s decision to relax media ownership rules threaten to overturn it through legislation. This is CNN Radio News. (commercial)
A: Visit “The Edge” website on the worldwide Web at http://www.the-edge.ws — we’ll return with more of Lan Lamphere in just a moment. (commercial and Super Talk 930 WKY show promos) To reach Lan Lamphere, call (gives number) or you can reach “The Edge” on our toll-free number at (gives number). (unidentified bumper music)
L: My name’s Lan Lamphere. You are listening to “The Edge” with Allison Crowe, one of my favorite ladies in the whole world. And imagine that Bridgette Ward’s going to be one of my favorite people in the whole world. You’ve got to go check out her CD. She was in studio with us for the first hour of the program. It’s called “Cruise Control.” You can go down to Hastings in Norman or you can go to the O.U. Student Union and pick it up there. Several other places. You can also visit her website bridgetward.com. But, anyway, Allison Crowe — that’s — got some new bed music, going onto a whole new format on “The Edge” tonight. Phone lines are open tonight if you have any questions for Mark Russell Bell. I’m still trying to figure out what we’re talking about but (small laugh) that’s the way it goes on “The Edge” sometime. Anyway, you can give us a call: (gives number) — that’s (gives number) or (gives number). Phone lines are open. You can give us a call and, you know, let us know what you’re thinking about or what you — what you want to say. Give us a call. It’s just that simple. Testament is Mark Russell Bell’s new book. It is a nonfiction book with a questions and answer interview format for like journalistic format style. The subjects include poltergeists, aliens, bigfoot, synchronicity, angels, prophecies, reincarnation, psychic abilities — damn, this guy knows about — a lot about a whole lot of different things apparently. Christ Consciousness and the events pertaining to what is sometimes referred to as the second coming. And I want to talk to Mark about (BEEP) that. What is the second coming, Mark? And welcome back to “The Edge.”
Q: Okay, Lan. Well let me — let me put this in perspective for you.
L: That would be great. I’m trying —
Q: Because —
L: — to figure out what the hell is going on here.
Q: There was a lot of ground to cover very quickly and, by the way, if anyone wants to call who experienced some of the phenomena revolving around ‘Michael’ there in Centrahoma, that would be interesting to hear.
L: I don’t know if — I don’t — how old is this case in Centrahoma? With the ‘Michael’ case — with the — the Mc Wethy family? (X)
Q: Well let’s see — I went there and interviewed them in August of (X) 1995.
Q: And all of the — all of those kinds of questions are in the book but they actually experienced phenomena earlier — in earlier stages of their life. And the more you look at the case, the more wide-ranging it appears.
Q: So let me just give you a few of the little things that I had to put together. Well first when I had been researching the Bell Witch case, there was (X) a famous incident where the haunting Entity had repeated two different preachers’ sermons in the voices of the ministers verbatim after they had recited the sermons at the same time one Sunday. This was done in the evening. See, the haunting spirit in the Bell Witch case was almost like a channel between the hereafter and this world so different spirits would manifest. And that’s (“IN”) in effect what was happening here in Centrahoma. So when I —
L: . . . are poltergeists real? I mean according to these people a poltergeist is real. And I’m sitting here and I’m looking at some of the images that are in your book. And some of them were — and what is this white powder that is lined out on the floor in a zigzag pattern. I might want to interrupt you and kind of (“UH-HUH”) paint the — a picture for our audience here.
Q: That was birdseed and if you’ll notice the letter ‘M’ spelled out in the birdseed?
L: And there’s like five Ms here.
Q: That’s right. A lot of Ms. In fact, I’ve seen a lot of similar formations in crop circles. However, when I was interviewing the family, there was one incident and I (X) put this (X) in the very first page of my book when I have the excerpts — about the flat tire incident where basically Twyla, one of the daughters, heard her sister and her sister’s friend have a conversation about a flat tire; and then later heard the same conversation when it actually happened so it made her tell me that (“SHE”) it was as if the house was playing back the conversation before it happened.
L: Um-huh. (“WHICH” or “WITCH”)
Q: And then I found the parallel with that with what had happened in the Bell Witch case (X) with the recreation of voices.
Q: So when I came back home here to L.A. At the time, I wasn’t really prepared for what happened. (“BUT”) I was listening to my interviews and hearing electronic voice phenomena. There was still phenomena going on. There were pennies appearing and what-have-you.
L: What do you mean by pennies appearing?
Q: For example, where (or “WHERE”) — wherever I would go I would — not only would I find pennies but sometimes I had — I remember once when my brother and his friend James were in my apartment, there was a penny on the floor. And I pointed it out to James and he said, “Well maybe you put it there.” And a moment later a dime appeared. Now when the penny —
L: This thing appear out of thin air right in front of you?
Q: Yes, in this — that’s what happened to me (“WHEN I”) in Oklahoma and then when it — that’s why when I came back —
L: Now wait a minute, wait a minute. Hold on. (“MY”) Alright, let me get this straight, okay Mark? You’re looking at a — a place in front of you. Something in front of you. Some kind of a static table or something. And a dime and a penny just appeared in front of you?
Q: I even heard the swoosh.
L: A “swoosh.”
Q: Of air. When it — when the — when the first penny fell.
L: Oh it fell?
Q: Well it — it ca(me) — it was tossed.
L: Oh, okay, I got you.
Q: Okay. And now I had also witnessed this in Oklahoma. For example, another thing that happened in Oklahoma is there was a conversation about one of the haunting entities which they called Lea(d) — ‘Leader.’
Q: Apparently, the aliens told the family that they were from Saturn.
L: You see, that’s ironic. You know, there’s this Nancy Lieder chick who thinks that aliens are from the Zeta Reticulum family. (“WW”)
Q: Well some of these people — I mean what they say — I mean it seems —
L: Are fruit loops?
Q: I — I don’t know. Has she been on your show?
L: No. And she never will be.
Q: I mean she’s so ridiculous. I mean —
Q: It — it seems like — I mean it seems like there is apt speculation to make these people as assinine as possible to keep people in a state of unawareness.
L: Or disbelief.
Q: Right. To make the ‘New Agey’ people as crazy as possible —
L: Or are they crazy?
Q: Well in this case I’ve — I’ve heard some speculation that if they present a date when this planet would appear and it fails —
L: Planet X.
Q: — to appear then people will just forget about it.
L: Well Planet X has come and gone. I mean it’s not even an issue anymore. I think she’s making statements now to the effect that it’s supposed to appear in a couple of years or a couple of months or a couple hours, couple of days. And I think she’s just, you know, grasping at straws in my opinion. In my opinion, I’m going to put this out here real quick. It — she’s a fruit loop.
Q: Well some of them are — but there are paid disinformation agents as well. I mean —
L: Oh. I — show me one.
Q: It’s hard to find those checks, isn’t it?
L: Yeah, it is. Show me one. Who — who do you think, in your opinion, and be sure to say that is a differ — disinformation agent in regard to—I don’t know—paranormal issues?
Q: Well I — there’s a chapter in my — in the New Testament side of my book where I go to an expo here in L.A.
Q: And I’m very candid about my impressions. I mean I remember there was a channeler there. I don’t remember her name offhand but she talked about serving in the military. I think it was Japan she said and her husband was in the military but now she was a channeler. But everything she channeled had nothing to do with any kind of (“YOU KNOW”) ‘helping your fellow man’ or any kind of good work. It was just mumbo — you know, just New Agey mumbo jumbo about finding true enlightenment, whatever that means.
L: Yeah, whatever the hell that means. Okay.
Q: Yeah. (or “YEAH”) Okay, so you get the idea.
L: Oh yeah, I — everybody else has already . . .
Q: So in my case I came home to Los Angeles. The bizarre things were going — I would — I called up my friend Fiona who already was a psychic reader over at The Psychic Eye and as I was talking to her a magnet flew off of her refrigerator. In Oklahoma, I also had experienced some interaction with wasps. And when I called my mom, I was (X) saying, “Michael, give me a sign that you’re there.” And my mom said, “Oh well there’s nothing happening.” And then she said, “Well — well wait a moment. There’s a wasp acting strangely.” So there were these little keys that I could interpret when not necessarily the other people could interpret. In Oklahoma too, they — the family had warned me that he always takes money: “Michael will take your dollars or your $20 or your change so watch out.” Well my friend Marie called me —
L: What in hell would a ghost need with twenty bucks?
Q: Well listen to this.
Q: My friend Marie calls me and says, “Mark, my — someone cleared out my bank account.” (“YEAH”)
L: Oh and they blamed it on Michael?
Q: Well it was that type of situation because Marie —
Q: — nobody else had her card. Anyway, so that’s all document(ed) —
L: Come on, man, you believe this? (laughs)
Q: Oh definitely. Because — because what happened next is I went to a slide show at my brother’s house. (X) Before the bulb burned out, my friend Charlotte was saying — was showing us slides from her vacation and she was saying, “Oh, the man in the Hawaiian shirt was our tour leader.” And then my friend Patty mentioned that her car was a Saturn. And I — I had the inclination that, “Wait — this is all repetitive — (X “TH”) sort of like what was happening in Oklahoma” and I — I reached the conclusion that the Angel Mighael was trying to trying to train me how ‘They’ communicated to me through other people’s subconscious minds. Sometimes —
L: Are you just that damned desperate, Mark, I mean to believe half the stuff that they’re coming up with here? I mean come on.
Q: No, th(is) — this is why I documented the case verbatim to show you each step of the way so, anyway, what happened is these small — okay, you have to remember the Superconscious Mind of the universe has to interact with us based upon what our belief system is.
L: Or maybe we interact with It based on our own personal point of view or belief system.
Q: Right, exactly. So the sequence of events on the surface — they were long associated with the supernatural. But yet I was able to see behind them and make a leap in consciousness, if you will, about the nature of God (“AN”) and the Organizing Force of the universe.
L: So what the hell would a ghost need with somebody’s checking account?
Q: Well —
L: I mean what are they doing? Just being aggravating or what? Irrational ghost?
Q: Well if you really think about money, isn’t money really the reincarnation of God in a corrupt society?
L: Holy crap, no. What the hell?
Q: . . . no, people worship money. They pray for money.
L:Yeah, I’ll give you that much.
Q: Television is centered around — sports, professional athletes.
Q: I mean it’s all about money. “Show me the money.”
L: But why does God need money?
Q: It’s a tool.
L: That’s a Billy Graham thing. He’s going to be in Oklahoma City, by the way. (laughs)
Q: It’s a — no, it’s a learning tool. I mean there are — (“I MEAN”) Swami Prabhupada, for example —
L: Hey, I like swamis. Watch it. (“NO”) Okay, go ahead, man.
Q: When he was riding in a limo once, he had a car accident. So I mean — and there are — there are similar cases throughout but — in my case, when — when I was experiencing this, I basically — my upbringing was such that at Sunday school and vacation Bible school I kept learning that Jesus was the only begotten Son of God. But now it was possible for me to discern that the Christ Force was manifesting around certain individuals who, more often than not, would be confused with this Force: I mean Krishna, Jesus, Buddha, Mohamed.
Q: Perhaps it was this Son of God Force, Christ Force that has been documented in various paranormal cases that people have confused with the entities, (“THE”) the individual people (“THAT”) Spirit manifests around.
Q: For example, one of the books I read was My Search For The Ghost Of Flight 401 by Elizabeth Fuller.
L: Now hold on. Let — before we do that —
L: We’re coming up on a break here in a minute —
L: — Okay? When we come back to that, alright? But we’re not going on the break right now. What I want to do is, is I want to distinguish the difference between an entity and a poltergeist. And I think I have a caller here, Robert in Moore — call(er) — Robert?
L: Hey, man. Welcome to “The Edge.” What’s your question?
B: I just wanted to know the difference between a poltergeist and an entity.
L: Oh, I guess I was right. Okay. Go ahead. Can you answer that, Mark?
Q: I — I couldn’t hear the question.
L: Oh. Bring him up again. He — he wanted to know what the difference between an entity and a poltergeist is.
Q: Well the w(ord) — they’re just words. They’re what certain individuals based on their belief systems ascribe to phenomena that they can’t otherwise explain. What one person would identity as a poltergeist, another one might say was an angel, another one might say was an alien, another one might say was a demon.
L: Well that’s funny because Dr. Andrew Nicholls is a parapsychologist. And he’s actually the first guest we ever had on “The Edge.” He seems to think that an entity is something that was alive—or could be alive and maybe not—interacting with this world; and a poltergeist is something possibly generated by the human thought pattern. Possibly generated by our own emotions. And it is brought into carnation or incarnated into reality based on those emotions or based on the fact that someone’s pissed off.
Q: Well I think he needs to go to the testament.org website and read my case study because that’s what I probably thought too before I experienced these events.
L: Okay. I’ve got a question for you, okay, from our chatroom. It’s over at the-edge.ws —
L: . . . a live chatroom and just kind of bear with me here, okay?
L: I have a person over there whose name is Mystic and he wants to know if you were abused as a child?
Q: That’s an interesting question that’s documented in the book. One of the spirit messages or EVPs seemed to indicate that this had happened to me as a child. By my Uncle Bob. And I didn’t have any memory of it. It was something that’s come up in other so-called famous poltergeist cases where they had theorized that the victim of abuse — a splinter of their consciousness would branch out and interact with the larger consciousness. However, I must say I — when I interviewed (“MY”) parents about this for my book, wanting to get to the root of the problem, they acted so suspiciously that it made me think that it was probably true. Even though right now (“I”) I ha(ve) — since I still have no memories of it, I really don’t know what to say.
L: Well for the most part I mean if you don’t have any memories of it, how could it affect you now if you were abused as a child? Do you think you were sexually abused or what?
Q: Well there’s different forms of abuse.
L: . . . There’s verbal abuse, there’s emotional abuse —
L: — there’s physical abuse. There’s sexual abuse. There’s different kinds of abuses out there but all of them have an effect on the psyche or psychology of an individual as they grow older.
L: Okay, what the hell happened to you?
Q: That’s a good question. I mean I — (“MY”) unfortunately, it was a ver(y) — my parents were involved in a very bad divorce. My mother was an alcoholic. My father was not around very often. There — there was abuse. Not — not sensational types of abu(se) — (X) abuse like in the movie “Tommy” for example. (“BUT”) There was obviously abuse that I can remember based upon the circumstances. I didn’t have any Uncle Ernie or Uncle Bob (“THAT”) I can remember even though if you (X) look at the EVP, it did lead me to think that this was the case, which —
L: An EVP — you’re talking about Electronic Voice Phenomena? What did it say?
Q: At one point, one of the — they’re usually just small sections of sentences or brief words here and there. I might add that James Van Praagh, who’s a — a me(dium) — a mental spirit medium has said in his book Talking To Heaven that he doesn’t usually hear in complete sentences as he can in normal conversation so —
L: But James Van Praagh was on with Jack and Ron here about a week ago, which is two of the talkshow hosts that you can hear on WKY Super Talk 930 here in Oklahoma City. They weren’t very impressed with him.
Q: Well he also once worked at Paramount Pictures —
L: And I wasn’t either because I listened to the interview.
Q: Well I must say that when he says that “When a spirit says, ‘Hello, how are you today'” and he may hear “‘Lo, are yo day,'” that’s very comparable to the Electronic Voice Phenomena phenomena (X) that’s happened. And, again, it’s interesting to see at what point in their career various individuals have worked at Paramount Pictures. Because Paramount Pictures, of course — the logo is that of the mountain.
L: Um-huh. Strong symbol.
Q: A strong religious symbol.
L: No, I said a strong symbol. I didn’t say religious. How — how is it a religious symbol?
Q: Well it wasn’t at first. But when I started thinking, “Well my burning bushes, the nail that bounced off my head in the house in Oklahoma — I mean there was — these are just some of the things that I had to — to add up and there was a religious aspect. I mean I did have this Angel named Mighael interacting with me in my life. So — I mean (or “AMI”) that’s really why — there really is no substitute for reading the verbatim experiences in the book or at the website because, again, you have to look behind the surface of what was — what was being said. Because this is all based on people’s individual belief systems — even mine. I mean I’m very — (“WHEN”) once — once —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: LAN PLAYED A LOUD SOUND EFFECT OF CARTOONISH RAUCOUS LAUGHTER FOR ABOUT 12 SECONDS.)
L: Uh-oh. I don’t know what just happened. Hold on. Hold on for just a second. Okay I’m back. I’m sorry. I fired a button by accident. Go ahead.
Q: Okay. So anyway (“SO”) ever since I became aware that the Superconscious Mind of the universe was interacting with me, I would notice bumper stickers, license plate holders, people’s T-shirts. Sometimes the Spirit has a wonderful sense of humor. For example, last week I saw a T-shirt that said: “God’s Busy” with a devil face and then “Can I help you?,” which I thought was (“AA” “HH”) hilarious. So I do have this — I do see this wonderful sense of humor and love, interacting with this Superconsciousness. And I think the main lesson I’ve learned is that — is the importance of Love and, of course, the many emotions that the word encompasses, such as appreciation, respect, consideration, forgiveness — trying not to project one’s own fears and negativities into what one doesn’t understand. (“LIKE”) I — there was a period when I was thinking, “Oh come on — ”
L: Well yeah that’s exactly what I’m thinking right now.
Q: — I mean God doesn’t —
L: Okay, I understand, identify. (or “IDENTIFY”)
Q: Yeah, I mean so re(ad) — so read the book. I mean —
L: I am reading the book. I’ve been sitting here looking through the book the whole time and . . .
Q: God gave me — God gave me proof for my experience. For example, genetically I have Hitchcock — Alfred Hitchcock ancestry. I don’t know if you’ve seen the movie “Rebecca” —
Q: But it’s —
L: I’m not a big movie fan but Taira maybe’ll know about it. She’s a movie major.
Q: And then —
L: A film major.
Q: — and, of course, my life seems like (“AA”) one long Ken Russell movie. So that was one of (“THE”) the proofs that I had. (X) There’s a(t) (or “AA”) at the end of the book I have the Historical Memoirs of the First Race of Ancestry, Whence The House Of Russell Had Its Origin, which was an 1833 book that basically Spirit led me to over at the library. And that all ties in (“WITH”) with the case.
L: Hey, guy, hold on, okay?
L: We got to go back — we’re going to go break. Alright?
L: We’ll be back in just a moment with more of Mark Russell Bell. It’s starting to get interesting. And we’ll — we’ll go on. We’ll see him in a little bit. Hang on.
I recommend . . .
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: ONLY A BRIEF PORTION OF THE BUMPER MUSIC SONG “YOU LEARN” PERFORMED BY ALANIS MORISSETTE IS HEARD BEFORE THE INTRODUCTION TO THE NEWS IS HEARD.)
A: News Talk Radio. News on the hour, on the half, and when it breaks. Super Talk 930 WKY Oklahoma City.
C: “CNN Radio World News.” I’m Cheryl Castro. Egyptian leaders are welcoming American President Bush to their country. Bush is there to garner support from Arab leaders on his Middle East peace plan. Jordan’s foreign minister who is also in Egypt says the Arab community needs to back Bush’s effort.
J: In this meeting I think it is very important also for Arab states to show their support for the process and show their support for the Palestinians and their support for . . . (hard to hear)
C: Bush is also calling on Arab leaders to crack down on terrorism. President Bush meets with the Palestinian and Israeli prime minister Wednesday in Jordan.
G: My expectations in — in the Middle East are to — call all the respective parties to their — responsibilities to achieve peace.
C: Palestinian security sources says Israeli forces shot and killed a 50-year-old Palestinian police officer Monday evening. No comment from Israel. A Saudi official says one of the 19 suspects in last month’s terror bombings in Ryadh was killed in a firefight. Yosif Salih Fahd Ala’Yeeri was also believed to be one of al Qaeda’s leaders in Saudi Arabia. The U.S. is investigating why two civilian contractor boats entered the Shatt Al Arab Waterway where they were seized by Iranian gunmen. Jamie McIntyre reports.
M: There were two boats that were on the Shatt al Arab waterway performing what was supposed to be a routine task of picking up some well workers and four U.S. Army soldiers, plus an army contractor and a couple of contractors for these small boats were all taken into custody by Iranian officials who claimed that they have wandered over into Iranian water.
C: All the passengers were allowed to return to Iraq. The captains of the boats are being held in Iran. A report by the U.S. Justice Department finds instances of verbal and physical abuse of four detainees since the September 11th attacks. This is “CNN Radio News.” (commercial) U.N. weapons inspectors have turned in their final report on the search for banned weapons in Iraq. Richard Roth reports.
H: In a volume set to be discussed on Thursday, the inspectors say they found no evidence of any programs for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq but also made quote “little progress” in clearing up remaining questions. The report which was submitted to the Security Council suggests that Iraq may have failed to declare what the U.S. says are mobile biological weapons labs. The report says Iraq handed over photos and videos of mobile facilities but none matched the types of mobile labs the U.S. asserts were intended for production of biological weapons. Richard Roth, CNN Radio, United Nations.
C: CNN has learned the CIA could soon provide congress with intelligence on Iraq’s alleged weapons of mass destruction. Secretary of State Colin Powell used that information in his presentation to the U.N. back in February. The alleged existence of such weapons served as the central U.S. argument for war. This is news from CNN. (commercials)