Q: Mark Russell Bell
C: Cynthia, U.S. Census Bureau Employee
A: Art Bell, host of “Coast to Coast A.M.” (radio broadcast)
O: KOGO announcer
R: Ross Mitchell, taped announcements for “Coast to Coast A.M.”
K: Kenny D., caller
M: Matt, caller from Tampa
N: unidentified caller form New Mexico
U: unidentified caller
J: caller
D: unidentified caller from Dallas, Texas
Y: Mark, caller from Dayton, Ohio
L: Rush Limbaugh (promo)
S: commercial spokespersons
D: Deb Welch, KOGO newscaster
T: Martha Radditz, ABC Radio News reporter


Q: Hello?

C: Hi. This is Cynthia (X) with the U.S. Census Bureau. I’m calling to speak to Mr. Mark Russell.

Q: Yes, you are speaking to him.

C: Mr. Russell, the reason we’re calling is the Census Bureau is sponsoring a very important study for the – regarding college graduates. And it’s being sponsored by the National Science Foundation and you were chosen as one of the sample respondents. And it’s a really important survey. It only takes (X) about ten to 15 minutes of your (X) time (X) and we would really appreciate your helping us with the survey.

Q: I – I just don’t think that that’s proper.

C: In what respect?

Q: The Orwellian respect.

C: Oh real(ly) – what?

Q: Orwellian.

C: Orwellian. What does Orwell have to do with it?

Q: Big Brother.

C: Oh I don’t think it – that comes into that – it (or “IT”) – that level, sir, as far as – I mean that –

Q: I mean they ask – they want –

C: The survey is a much, much friendlier survey. It’s not – I mean it’s – even though it’s not mandatory, Mr. Russell, it’s just that we – we – we – we really want your input because of – of the – the caliber of the survey. It helps (X) future college students get funding (X) and it’s not Orwellian at all. It help – and it helps – it’s a way of finding out also what they’re – one of their points is that they’re trying to see if – if educated persons like yourself are using their degrees in their (X) – in their area of employment or if they’re doing something totally unrelated. And, as I said, it also helps with the directions of funds for future college students so . . .

( . . . )

Q: I’ll finish this tape side, which is a farewell to “Coast to Coast A.M.” with one of the bumper music songs they’ve been playing recently.

Don’t think sorry’s easily said

Don’t try – turn the tables instead

You’ve taken lots of chances before

But I ain’t gonna give anymore

Don’t ask me

That’s how it goes

Cause part of me knows what you’re thinking

Don’t say words you’re gonna regret

Don’t let fire rush to your head

I’ve heard the accusation before

And I ain’t gonna take any more

Believe me

The sun in your eyes

Made some of the lies worth believing

I am the eye in the sky

Looking at you

I can read your mind

I am the maker of rules

Dealing with fools

I can cheat you blind

And I don’t need to see any more

To know that

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

Don’t leave false illusion behind

Don’t cry – I ain’t changing my mind

So find another fool like before

Cause I ain’t gonna live anymore believing

Some of the lies while all of the signs are deceiving

I am the eye in the sky

Looking at you

I can read your mind

I am the maker of rule

Dealing with fools

I can cheat you blind

And I don’t need to see any more

To know that

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind . . .

I am the eye in the sky

Looking at you

I can read your mind

I am the breaker of rules

Dealing with fools

I can cheat you blind

And I don’t need to see any more

To know that

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind

(looking at you)

I can read your mind . . .

(“Eye In The Sky” performed by The Alan Parsons Project/lead vocal – Eric Woolfson)

Q: . . . quite remarkable things. If they repeat that, as they do on KOGO – what I heard Art say last Sunday (Saturday), (X) I’ll feature it because I thought it was quite compelling. About disinformation.

( . . . )

Q: By the way, I decided to re-read The Edge of the Unknown by Arthur Conan Doyle and I was impressed by the section about Houdini; how psychologically similar Houdini is with Uri Geller. I have some other interesting books to read too. It’s interesting how Doyle has come to be known as that idiot who fell for the obvious fairy hoax when if you really familiarize yourself with his experiences and what happened particularly in that case – apparently the photos he saw are quite different (X) from the ones you see in books today. They weren’t as clear.

A: From the high desert and the great American Southwest, I bid you all good evening, good morning, good afternoon, whatever the case may be in whatever time zone you reside in at the moment, 25 in total and we cover every single one of them one way or the other with this program called “Coast to Coast A.M.” I’m Art Bell. It is an honor to be with you throughout this great weekend. George takes a couple days off. Let’s review a little world news and then more. Al Qaeda is claiming a U.S. slaying, an hostage. Remember Al Qaeda was warning US citizens were going to be killed and that Saudi citizens and others should stay away from anybody. Well now they’re doing it. Suspected militants killed an American in the Saudi capital on Saturday, shooting him in the back–brave, huh?–as he parked at his home garage. And the U.S. Embassy said it was searching for an American who is listed as missing. A purported Al Qaeda statement posted on an Islamic website late Saturday did claim the terror group had killed one American, kidnaped another in Riyadh. It threatened to treat the captive U.S. – rather treat their captive as U.S. troops treated Iraqi prisoners in Iraq. Senator John Edwards, the smooth-talking populist who emerged from the nominating campaign as John Kerry’s chief rival is now his chief favored probable vice presidential running mate. You know, you consider John McCain and oh that would have been quite a ticket, huh? I really like – oh I – I have liked for a very long time John McCain and that would’ve made a very interesting ticket. And polling shows, by the way, that a McCain ticket with Kerry would’ve been about 15 percent ahead of the President or so. But it looks like next best choice is going to be Edwards. In the bloodiest fighting this year in Afghanistan, U.S. Marines killed more than 80 insurgents in a three week offensive against a Taliban stronghold in the mountains of Southern Afghanistan. U.S. military insisted the battle was a victory that would help secure fall elections rather than a sign of the resilience of Taliban-led militants. Toughening its stance in advance of a meeting of the U.N. Nuclear Watchdog Agency, Iran on Saturday said it would reject international restrictions – any of them at all on its nuclear program and challenge the world to accept Iran as a member now of the nuclear club. There’s something to think about a little bit – Iran as – as a – as a full nuclear nation. Hmm. The internationally built Cassini spacecraft completed a flyby of Saturn’s largest (X) outer moon as it prepared to enter a four-year orbit to study the ringed (X) planet, said NASA on Saturday. The plutonium-powered spacecraft which is carrying 12 science instruments and a probe came within about 1,285 miles of the dark moon on (X) Friday. So – so we’ve got it out there. I – I wonder – I wonder if any of you – and I – I know for a lot of you this will have been a long time ago – saw the series “Taken” because I received, you know, a million Emails saying, “Hey Art, that was you in an RV at the end.” (small laugh) Well I never watched “Taken.” Instead, my wife and I obtained it on DVD and watched it commercial-free–all 20 hours of it–and finished just yesterday. And I – I must tell you – and if you think back, I’m sure you’ll recall – that young lady, that Dakota Fanning who played the little girl in “Taken” was incredible. She was – she was absolutely incredible. And she did the – of course, that was her voice, you know, doing the – the narration during the – the series as – as well. And she was so good that she was – I (or “I”) – I really don’t have the right words to describe the way she played that part. It was surreal that anybody that age – and she’s what? Nine or so, I guess when she did “Taken.” It was just beyond all reason that there would be a young lady with that sort of ability to read and act and have on her face the exact correct expression at the correct moment. There was nothing – no fake moments. No moments when you went “Oh come on” or any of the rest of it with respect to what she did in that series. It was absolutely amazing. So better late than never but I did get to see “Taken,” which I thought was incredibly – Spielberg’s “Taken” – it was incredibly well-done. And Dakota Fanning, I don’t even know what to say about her. Absolutely incredible. (thunder sound effect as commercial segue)

O: You’re listening to News Radio 600 KOGO.

( . . . )

A . . . Super Prostate Formula is for you. It was designed by nationally recognized physician Dr. Michael Teplisky . . .

( . . . )

O: And this is the big one, News Radio 600 KOGO.

A: I’ve only seen two what you would regard as UFOs in my entire life. One, the (X) very large black triangle, the story of which I’ve told many times; second one – in both cases my wife was with me, thank goodness – the second one was on this property just simply looking up, watching a jet and the contrail behind it – suddenly seeing a silvery object, a – a saucer – it was a saucer in the contrail behind this airplane, which then moved above and finally took off like a bat out of hell, (“THE”) the western horizon. And we stood in my driveway and watched that. I received a bit of – of video footage from Mark – Mark O. we’ll call him on May 14th – well actually just a couple days ago but it appeared May 14th in Sonoma, California. It shows what he caught on camera, which I showed to Ramona and she said, “Yep, that’s what we saw.” It didn’t act exactly the same way. Ours more or less stayed within the – the contrail moved aside from it a little bit and then zzzooo – took off to the west and was gone. But what – what he’s captured – what Mark has captured on video here is very, very reminiscent of exactly what we saw. It didn’t act quite the same way physically. Other than that, it’s certainly what we saw. It’s a saucer and it’s good video footage. And it’s on the website right now so I invite you to go to coasttocoastam dot com and play the video footage that Mark caught. Same thing we saw – just about exactly the same thing. So that was the second sighting I’ve had in my life. Now while you’re up there at the website you might also want to go by my webcam. In the upper left hand corner of the website, you see Art – ‘Art’s Webcam.’ Click on that. This is from Chuck in Orlando, Florida and it says: “Hey Art, The webcam photo you have up, an aerial view of your property, leads me to ask are you building a small HAARP?” Yeah, I guess I am, Chuck. This is sort of an interesting story, of course, and – and Chuck refers here to a photograph of my antenna, which is indeed up – up there right now. And of my property. And that antenna that you see covers five acres in total. Five acres. And it is remarkable in – in every sense of the word. Remarkable. I built this antenna, which was quite a very (X) serious undertaking after reading a book about W6AM. It was called W6AM: Amateur Radio’s Pioneer. And he built very large baromic antennas and put two wires on them and claimed that it gave additional gain. That’s a very long time ago, right after – well virtually in years following Spark Gap, you know, at the very beginning of radio. And he made some claims in his book (X) that – that we’re remarkable about using two wires. And so I thought, “Why not apply the technology to a very large loop, which is what I did. And it has been most anomalous. I must tell you. We’ve been, you know, testing this antenna for some (X) time now. And it does much more than I ever asked or imagined that it would. As you know, there are about – and now in excess of 300 anomalous volts, (“WW”) which I have carefully shunted to ground – which there are many theories about – well how it (X) – what – what it’s doing there. It’s been measured on a cloudless, stormless, windless blue sky day. It’s still there when there are power failures in the area disabling the grids. So you would have – imagine any coupling. It’s still there because we had a power failure and I ran out and measured the voltage and, sure enough, there it was. So it’s a fairly remarkable thing that I’ve built, it would seem. And I did take a photograph of it. I had a good friend come over in a helicopter and he took me up. And I – it’s really the only way to capture the size. And as for the scale as I just told you, it takes up about five acres of ground. And what it does is really, really incredible. And – and so it – it would seem that in the very early days of radio, those days following the old Spark Gap transmitters – they may have known a lot more than they know today. In some ways. In other words, I’m suggesting there was technology developed that has been virtually forgotten with the advent of directional antennas and beams. A lot of these very large array antennas have been virtually forgotten. And so I must tell you that building something of this scale and magnitude has been – illuminating would be the right word in a lot of ways. Got an Email here from – I’ve got to pull something out of the things I want to cover with you – from L. H. Davis asking me my opinion on the Burisch thing. And I refer, of course, to somebody called Dan Burisch, I believe it is, who was allegedly a microbiologist or something – a whistle-blower, somebody who was going to tell all (“N A”) – you know, this thing went flying around the Internet like there was no tomorrow. And so I did some investigation on my own and it was kind of vapor. I guess there is a – a Mr. Burisch. And I guess Linda did talk to him but somebody asked me a week or two ago what I thought of it from a credibility point of view and my answer is not much. That’s what I said then and that’s what I still think now after hearing what I heard last night on the radio. I still think there is nothing to it. But you never know and I – I could certainly be wrong. I just – I followed the trail as best I could and I talked to a lot of people who used pseudo-names on the Internet and, frankly, were kind of strange. The whole story just did not jell for me and so I never went forward with it. Now there may be something to it and there may turn out to be something to it but I don’t know. I – I would join George, who I heard last night suggest Mr. Burisch be solicited to take a lie detector test. Now this is interesting. This comes from – the following comes from Whitley Strieber’s unknowncountry dot com.

Bob White kept a secret for many years. He says, “I’m 73 years old. I don’t have much longer . . . This is the most difficult thing I’ve ever done in my life.” He’s showing the world an artifact he claims fell off a UFO in 1985.

Steve Rock writes in The Kansas City Star that White keeps the artifact locked up in a small building he calls the Museum of the Unexplained. White says, “I’ve been called every name you can think of . . . What I’d like to see before I’m gone is the national media get their heads . . . out of the sand. I’d like to see the national media and everybody else realize that what I have is real.

“Once it happens,” White says, “it’s something you’ll never forget . . . What I saw was not of this Earth.” He didn’t believe in the existence of UFOs before 1985. “I was the biggest skeptic in the world.” But then he and a friend were driving from Denver to Las Vegas on lonely highway at 2 or 3 a.m. White was asleep in the passenger seat when his friend woke him up and pointed to a strange light in the sky, which eventually became so bright it almost blinded them. White got out of the car to look at it. He says the object was only about 100 yards in front of him “and it was huge . . . absolutely huge.” Eventually, it zoomed quickly up into the sky, where it merged with what looked like a cigar-shaped UFO, then the larger ship disappeared.

As the craft flew away, White saw an orange light falling to the ground. It was red hot but he when it cooled, he picked it up and kept it a secret for about 10 years. “I didn’t want anybody to call me a UFO nut,” he says. “I was afraid it might hurt my career.” The object is about 7 1/2 inches long and shaped like a teardrop. It’s metallic and weighs less than 2 pounds. White had it tested and discovered that it’s made mostly of aluminum. He removes the object from the museum display and puts it in a gun case at the end of every day. It never spends the night at the same place two nights in a row.

In 1996, NIDS (the National Institute for Discovery Science) sent a sample of it to the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology. “The metallurgical analysis was pretty mundane,” says NIDS spokesman. “We didn’t find any evidence that it was extraterrestrial.” But they couldn’t identify it either.

White has twice passed polygraph tests about the encounter and the artifact. Capt. George Larbey, who, conducted the first polygraph test in 1998, says, “I believe he found an object that fell from the sky . . . There was no reason for me to believe he was intentionally fabricating any aspect of his story.”

White says, “I don’t know what I have to do to prove this is the truth. You can’t make this stuff up.”

A: Well you – you could I guess but I believe him. And you can imagine there are many people out there who probably have things that they could tell us and they’re probably approaching their golden years and perhaps they would like to talk. Well I would love to hear anybody – what anybody has to say on that score. And a lot of us who are now getting toward the end of our lives – the last, you know, the twilight years – I don’t know what Frank Sinatra would say. The fall of it all? Hmm. If you – if you have something of that magnitude that has been a burden to you all your life, I can imagine you might want to get it off your chest. So by all means if you have something like that, get hold of me. It’s easy: Art Bell at aol dot com or Art Bell at mindspring dot com. Either one’ll work just fine. And this Email: “Art, this last weekend, you mentioned that it was strange that in other countries if people see UFOs they report them to the military and we don’t do that here in the United States. I know why.” Well he’s right. I did say that. In other countries like South America for example and a bunch of Europe, people will call the military if there’s a UFO. Here in the U.S. – (small laugh) no. And there is a good reason why. A Carleen writes: “There’s no number. So you’d have to guess which agency are they listed in, in your local phone book. The one – which one of their many offices and so forth? The chances are you’d get a lower level clerk, maybe an enlisted person who wouldn’t know what to do with the phone call. It wasn’t included in their training so they’d leave a message for someone who’d probably think the whole thing was a joke. But we do have our local law enforcement that do get such calls. I think a lot of people used to call their local radio stations but that’s become a joke with all the murders. I tried to call a local station about something big happening in the San Diego area, just kept getting told the news department wasn’t in. Or the phone line doesn’t even get answered.” So that’s a pretty good point, isn’t it? There’s really nobody in the military that you can call really. No one. I – I have made or tried to make such calls in the past and I had a little bit of luck but not a lot. And generally you don’t get past the night duty officer or somebody like that. So we don’t – (X) in this country civilians don’t really communicate directly with their military, do they? Any more. There may have been a day in America where that was once routinely done and (X) if you have a question that would seem to bear on something the military might know – know about, you could call them. But a – the point is made here. Who – who would you call now? There is no real office to report unidentified flying objects. Officially, there’s not even anybody investigating (X) them. As a matter of fact, all of that ended with Project Bluebook. You believe that, I’ve got a river that you might want to consider purchasing. Of course, they’re investigating but there’s no public admission of this. Nor is there any agency (X) that you can pick up the telephone and call as you would with a crime. If you thought it was interstate, you call the FBI, (X) right? Federal crime. Or a local crime. But where do you report a UFO? You can’t. (X) There’s really nowhere. There’s Peter Davenport, of course, of the UFO Reporting Center; NIDS, perhaps. But – and that’s fine. Thank goodness we’ve got at (X) least that. But none of it is even remotely official even though NIDS, of course, has people that can go out and investigate such claims when they are backed up by something physical, for example. That certainly tempts them. But nobody in the military. You can’t pick up the phone and say, “Would you give me the military’s UFO investigation number, please?” They’re not going to give you that number since there is no such thing. (small laugh) Alright. We’re going to do open lines (X) in the half hour (X) coming up so you’re going to want to listen very carefully for the numbers coming up. They are a little different on the weekend. Open lines means anything and all you want to talk about. Whatever it may be. We’re that close and it’s coming up. (bumper music that begins is “L.A. Woman” performed by The Doors)

O: You’re listening to News Radio 600 KOGO.

( . . . )

Be it sight, sound, the smell, the touch

There’s something inside that we need so much

The sight of a touch or the scent of a sound

Or the strength of an arquebus deep in the ground

The wonder of flowers to be covered and then to burst up,

Thru tarmack to the sun again

Or to fly to the sun without burning a wing

To lie in the meadow and hear the grass sing

To have all these things in our memory’s hoard

And to use them

To help us

To find . . . (laughter)

(“Departure” performed by The Moody Blues)

Ride, ride my see-saw

Take this place

On this trip

Just for me

Ride, take a free ride

Take my place

Have my seat

It’s for free . . .

(“Ride My See-Saw” performed by The Moody Blues)

R: Want to take a ride? To talk with Art Bell, call the wild card line at (gives number). The first-time caller line is (gives number). To talk with Art Bell from east of the Rockies call toll-free (gives number). From west of the Rockies call (gives number). International callers may reach Art by calling your in-country Sprint access number, pressing option five and dialing toll-free (gives number). From coast to coast and worldwide on the Internet, this is “Coast to Coast A.M.” with Art Bell.

A: I was just sitting here just watching this video myself from Mark – the one with the disk in the tail of the jet – the contrail. And I was thinking, “How strange that we’ve reached a point in this country where a talkshow host, me, in this (change of tape sides) this and it’s almost mundane. I mean this is a flying saucer. It’s in the contrail of a commercial aircraft and it’s doing things and making movements that no aircraft could make. And it’s almost – well not quite but almost mundane that I show you this video. And there’s no number in the military to call. They don’t even investigate things like this. Come on. This is a – a silvery disk flying in the sky, no doubt with a radar cross section behind an aircraft (X) captured on video tape. I saw one just . . . (like it) . . . and our military doesn’t look at stuff like that. There’s no number you can call. Our military doesn’t investigate those things anymore. Come on. Give me a break. (thunder sound effect/commercials segue)

O: You’re listening to News Radio . . .

( . . . )

Q: Well I don’t think this is the show that I was talking about. I think that was Sunday and this seems to be Saturday’s show. I didn’t hear the first half hour so I really don’t know. And it was a bit crazy last weekend (X) when my mom came out of the hospital (X) so I could be wrong but in any case this suffices. If I remember right, Art said that – after a call that disinformation always contained an element of the truth.

O: And this is the big one, News Radio 600 KOGO. (music/commercials segue)

A: Well alright. Good evening. As promised, let us dip into the gene pool. That means do open lines. And first time caller line, you would appear to be first. Good evening. You’re on the air.

K: Hello Mr. Bell

A: (taped) Do the wild thing at (gives number).

A: (Ok)ay, as you know, I don’t let you use last names on the air. So that – that was –

K: That whole – that’s just a –

A: – that –

K: – it’s a –

A: So –

K: It’s a moniker.

A: Okay. Well give me the first name of your moniker. (small laugh)

K: Kenny D.

A: Alright, Kenny D. from the Fantastic Forum. Alright, so what’s up?

K: Well recently – well I shouldn’t say recently. Like for probably like about a year or so, I’ve been (X) contemplating whether ascension’s possible for humans. And –

A: Ascension – ascension. You mean that all humans would rise to a new level . . .

K: I mean the ability – the ability for a actual human being to ascend the – like above matter into a world of –

A: Um-huh. Pure energy?

K: Something like that. I (or “I”) – pure divinity, I’d like to say.

A: Well –

K: And –

A: – watching the news in the world, that may happen but it doesn’t look rather – it doesn’t look imminent.

K: Okay. The thing is – or at least from what I’ve gathered – is that like I don’t think everyone’s ready for that. I know I – I’ve already experienced like –

A: I think that – that was the point I was making. If you look at the news and the fighting and the killing and the – you know, all the rest of it that’s going on in the globe right now, it doesn’t look imminent.

K: Well something looks imminent but I don’t think it’s –

A: That.

K: – going to be pretty. What’s imminent.

A: Mm –

K: (you k)no(w)?

A: – mm. (X) I – I would tend to agree with you. I – I – I don’t think that graduation just is just around the corner, so to speak, for the human race. It wouldn’t appear so we’re there yet. Wild card line, you’re on the air. Hello?

M: Good morning, Art.

A: Good morning.

M: Yes, this is Matt the security guard from Tampa.

A: Yes sir? (X)

M: First off, great bumper music. It answers the age-old question of what did Howard Dean do before he went into politics. (X) I’ve got two things. First off, a comment on Dan Burisch. I think until we get the polygraph test – (“LIKE”) two or three of ‘em and they’ve been independently confirmed, we’ve got to take this with a whole lot of salt simply because of the fact that he is alive and he’s telling this story.

A: Um-huh. And I do. I – I take it with a great deal of salt. Grains and grains; in fact, piles and piles of salt.

M: A big old salt lick.

A: Yeah, it could be a whole salt lick. (laughs)

M: (laughs) And the other one. I called you a couple weeks ago and told you about this great big fire we had in Tampa that nobody was talking about.

A: Yes sir?

M: We made ‘em blink.

A: What do you mean?

M: I mean you (or “U”) – I’d say that call went over the air here about 20 minutes til 5.

A: It suddenly got a lot of attention? (X)

M: Six o’clock, there was a story about it on the – our local station saying that it had started in an abandoned railroad car.

A: Um-huh? The media is –

M: But before it came out –

A: The media is –

M: – it came out –

A: – strange, isn’t it?

M: Yeah, especially when it came out like 13 hours after it started.

A: Um-huh.

M: Have a good one.

A: You too sir. Take care. Yes, very strange. The media is strange. The way it behaves is strange to observe. It’s been reduced in the U.S. (“THERE”) There was a day when just about everybody did their own independent investigation one way or the other. Or at least there were different sources. Now in the modern day what’s happened is – and it – it’s fascinating. Stories are generated at the very top somewhere and they flow downward. And all the affiliates at radio stations, they all rip and read. They take the latest five minute newscast or – even the networks are doing virtually the same thing. Some of them (X) have reporters in the (X) field. But most of the information is second-hand. You know, it’s coming in the written word: teletype and/or the modern equivalent (X) of it and everybody’s hooked up and everybody’s reading the same thing. So it is – it is kind of interesting, isn’t it? International line, you’re on the air. Hello.

N: Hello, Art?

A: Hello, sir.

N: You were just talking about the media and that’s – that’s something that – that I – I find very interesting.

A: So do I.

N: I wonder if we’re getting the truth at all. I’m originally from New Mexico, the state of New Mexico. And if you recall in the 2000 election Gore won New Mexico by 396 votes. Well there were some accusations that at the very last moment 600 votes appeared out of thin air.

A: I do recall it was hotly contested in . . .

N: Right.

A: Yes.

N: And people have continued to work on it. And there was a CPA. I can give you her name if you want. If you’d rather not, I won’t say it. But –

A: No. Not here.

N: Okay there’s a CPA in New Mexico who continued to work on it and she found thousands of votes. Thousands of votes on the Democratic side that she – they just couldn’t account for. From dead people.

A: Is that so?

N: Things like that.

A: Really?

N: This is well known in the state. In Las Cruces a local talkshow host has been bringing this up over and over and going, “Hey look. Bush won New Mexico. That means the whole Florida thing is an issue and – and it’s uncontested. He is the President of the United States. You know, the Democrats have been feeling well he hasn’t been.

A: Um-huh.

N: And yet no one wants to pick it up. I – I called this talkshow host and I talked to him for quite a while and he goes, “I don’t get it.” He says, “We have real solid evidence. No one – CBS, NBC, ABC – no one wants to pick this up.

A: And why do you imagine that to be true?

N: Maybe because studies have showed that (X) the major media is like 70 to 80 percent liberal Democratic. I had a friend who worked for L.A. Times and he said as a conservative he was afraid to admit to anyone he – he was (“FOR”) voting for Bush versus Gore.

A: Yeah, I – I can relate to that. I – I think that’s right. The media is pretty much by a gigantic margin leftist in my opinion. There’s no question about it. (X)

N: In –

A: But – but to imagine that they would ignore and not do a story of that magnitude, (“I”) that’s a little hard to believe.

N: Well I can tell you about two weeks ago I heard a story on the – on the news. Just one story where the Republicans are coming out and going the Repub(lican) – the – the basis of the Republicans have contended they have proof that George Bush clearly won the state of New Mexico. Heard one story (X) and then I never heard anything again.

A: Um-huh.

N: I – I don’t know. It just makes you wonder if we’re getting any truth at all.

A: Well I – I wonder about that a lot, my friend. I don’t know about any truth at all. There’s – there’s always – even in – in the very best lies – the best lies have a nugget of truth, a part of some truth to them. That’s what makes them good lies. The fact they have a – a center nugget of truth. And then they expand and insert disinformation from that point on but if you look far enough back there’s a gem of truth to it. And that’s – that’s basically what makes a good lie a lie. West of the Rockies, you’re on the air. Hello?

U: Sounds like Diebold strikes again.

A: (small laugh)

U: Art, I – first a – a comment and then a – well a comment then about Dan Burisch.

A: Oh yes. Okay.

U: You were looking for a frequency around 1,420 megahertz.

A: Yes.

U: And early on astronomers were concerned that . . .

A: But let me, if you don’t mind, clarify that. We had received a signal that some number of us were hearing on 1,420 megahertz which is the hydrogen frequency and that’s – got a little stir going at CETI. That’s what you’re referring to.

U: Yes. And early on astronomers were concerned that the iridium satellite which has frequencies near that in L-band –

A: Um-huh.

U: – might have inter-modulation products that could interfere with this frequency so that’s something you might look at . . .

A: Could be. Anything could be. It’s just that it was there. It was being heard here and as far away as Canada –

U: Uh-huh.

A: – which – (“WW”) without – you know, I mean it was there most of the night. I – i(t) – Iridium satellites are – are moving.

U: That’s right.

A: And so if it was moving and at that rate you would expect all kinds of things. For one, you would expect it to disappear. And you would expect to hear certain properties from a signal traveling at that speed.

U: Dopler.

A: Yes. Dopler.

U: This Mr. Dan Burisch affair. This whole idea of a secret Ph.D. doesn’t pass the smell test. People do secret work at universities and in their report the work product may be classified but the DoD can’t classify anything that doesn’t belong to them.

A: Um-huh.

U: And besides that it would be very impractical because if you or I got a Ph.D. that nobody else knew about we’d be indentured to the DoD and we could never move anyplace else because no one would recognize our credentials.

A: What surprised me more than anything else was that Linda Moulton Howe gave it that much credibility, frankly.

U: Yeah. I would be very careful about that one.

A: Very surprised that she would jump on that the way she did. But she did.

U: Yeah.

A: Okay, sir. Thank you.

U: Thank you.

A: Take care. East of the Rockies, you’re on the air. Hi.

J: Is that me, Art?

A: That would be you, sir.

J: Can I give my initials? I’m J.C.

A: Oh – not the ‘J.C.’ though.

J: No, not the ‘J.C.’ Just an ‘J.C.’

A: You couldn’t have been. I – your voice doesn’t sound anything like his.

J: Code name Spiderman.

A: Co(de) – codename Spiderman?

J: That’s right.

A: Oookay.

J: Can I make a couple of comments? And I’ll say something about President Reagan.

A: Um-huh.

J: Yeah, it’s apparently the government’s not listening to your program because if they were they might be trying to take you off the air.

A: Well they’d have to answer questions if they did that, wouldn’t they?

J: Hey Art, have you ever –

A: At least a couple of you out there would say, “Hey, where has Art gone?”

J: Hey Art.

A: Yes?

J: Have you ever actually had an official on air?

A: Have I had an official on air?

J: Yeah, like a government-type official?

A: Well my guess is I’ve probably had many.

J: Hm. Let me ask you something and let me say something about the passing away of Ronald Reagan.

A: Okay.

J: Did you know back in the day the church thought he was the Anti-Christ?

A: Who did?

J: The church.

A: I don’t recall any such statement from the church.

J: Yeah. Because of his name: Ronald Wilson Reagan.

A: Yeah – six six six, yes.

J: Exactly.

A: Wait. But I don’t think that was an official position of the church. That was the inevitable workings of a religious mind – that dug that one up. Anytime you see anything like that. Six: Ronald Wilson Reagan. Six, six and six. And I remember that going around on the Internet and then as now I’d give it about as much credibility as I do the whole Burisch thing. First-time caller line, you’re on the air. Hi.

D: Hello.

A: Hello.

D: Yeah Dallas, Texas here.

A: Yes, sir?

D: Yeah, years ago – a couple of years ago when I started listening to you –

A: Um-huh?

D: – Mr. Bell – Art –

A: Yes.

D: There was a lady that called in. And she had mentioned that she worked in Canada (“AT”) at a gas station and supposedly a time traveler came to visit her. Do you recall that?

A: Vaguely.

D: And – and she said she had (X) a video tape of it she was going to send it to you.

A: Yes, I – yes, I remember that now. Um-huh.

D: Yeah. Did – did anything ever come of that or was she just a kook?

A: Well I never – I never received any such (X) tape. That doesn’t automatically make her a kook.

D: Right. Well I’m – I’m fascinated with time travel. Any movies, any – any stories about time travel. I find it –

A: That makes two of us. I’m – I’m right there with you. (“I”)

D: And the other thing I wanted to say too is something that always crosses my mind is how far can we go before we have to go back to the beginning? Like athletes. They – they’re running so much faster now. They’re running, you know – and they – they keep setting records, ok(ay) – keep setting records. But a hundred years from now, are they going to be running 65 miles an hour?

A: (small laugh)

D: (small laugh)

A: I don’t know. There – there must be the – the equivalent of the – the wall in processing speeds for (X) athletes running but you never know.

D: Right. Okay, well carry on, brother.

A: Alright, thank you very much. Take care. You know, processor speeds will hit this great wall they – they claim. And I would think runners would be facing a similar wall. Wild card line, you’re on the air. Hi. Hello? Going once, going twice, gone. East of the Rockies – (dial tone) you would have been on the air. West of the Rockies, you are on the air. Hello? (line disconnects) No, you’re not. First time caller line, you’re on the air. Hi.

Y: Yes, this is Mark in Dayton, Ohio.

A: Hi, Mark.

Y: Just – just south of there.

A: Okay, Mark, turn your radio off please.

Y: Yeah.

A: We’ll wait –

Y: Is that down for you?

A: – no, all the way off.

Y: Yeah, it’s off.

A: Good.

Y: Yeah, I just have a question for Art. I want to ask . . .

A: That’s me. I – I’m Art, sir. We don’t screen –

Y: Oh I’m sorry – sorry, sir.

A: I don’t screen – you see, I don’t screen calls so –

Y: Yeah, I was think(ing) – I was assuming I was talking to a screener, sir.

A: I don’t have a –

Y: Yeah.

A: – I don’t have one.

Y: Yeah, it’s a pleasure to talk to you, Art.

A: And to you.

Y: My – my mother has been listening to you and George Noory for years.

A: Yes sir.

Y: And she loves you guys. And I – unfortunately, I just caught up with you in the last five or six months or so. But I wanted to ask your opinion about BTL.

A: Hm.

Y: If you think that that’s part and parcel of this shadow government. And that’s an extension of (X) – of HAARP, the so-called skybuster AK . . .

A: You’re all over the place here, hold on.

Y: Yeah.

A: One thing at a time. Do I –

Y: Yeah.

A: – what do I think of BTL? I think it is a disaster.

Y: Yeah.

A: And it will screw up the shortwave bands all across the entire country. Do I think it has anything to do with the ne(w) – (“THE”) new world order or the shadow government or whatever? No, I’m n(ot) (X) – not going to say that. I think this has to do with a bunch of people who see an easy, fast way to make money. That’s all. There are existing power lines and if they can carry the Internet over these power lines into every single home where every single wall socket will have the Internet (X) integrated with the electrical service, I think there are many reasons we should be examining this and looking very carefully before we proceed, as the Federal Communications Commission now has been planning to do–blindly I might add–just proceed. There are privacy issues to be addressed. There are interference issues to be addressed. There are a lot of things that need be done and ruining (X) the ability of Americans to get shortwave (X) on – on a 24/7 basis is insane. So until we know that it will not produce so much interference as to render all the HF frequencies useless, we should not proceed at all. But they are. And what do I think is behind it? I think money is behind it and people who want lots and lots of money. However, let me say one more time. With regard to this whole secret shadow government, (X) I don’t know. There may be dark forces that work behind the scene. I – I don’t – I’m not so foolish that I would say that doesn’t occur because it does, because people are secretive. People do make deals with each other and all kind of things go on but I don’t – I just don’t buy into all of this ridiculous, assinine – that’s what I said – assinine propensity of late for some people to be suggesting that the United States destroyed its own buildings in New York, destroyed a portion of the Pentagon with airplanes; that the United States was in any way whatsoever complicit with those who knocked down those buildings and killed so many Americans. I – I think it’s reprehensible that these kinds of things are spread around without any proof. Oh I know you can always say, “Well you know I didn’t see (“THE”) the right wreckage here or there; or jets could’ve gotten there; (X) or whatever it is people are saying. But they’re making these horrendous allegations without a shred – not a shred of (X) proof. And that bothers me because this is my country too, you know, and I just don’t happen to believe that – that our elected officials would choose to kill by thousands their own citizens. I may believe a lot of things but that’s not one of them.

A-boom ba

A-boom ba

A-boom ba

A-boom ba

Kélé filla saba nani norou

A-boom ba

Can you hear my heart beat in this bond

Do you know that the heart . . .

(“Boom Boom Ba” performed by Metisse/Terminalhead)

O: 600 KOGO.

O: Thanks to listening to KOGO on the web and hey, while you’re here, why not pick up some great ideas on how to beautify your home? Just click the RCP icon and see what they have to offer. Now whether you’re looking for retaining walls . . .

( . . . )

L: . . . admittedly a liberal mayor, Gavin Newsom, ignoring the law?

O: Rush.

L: Let me say what I think. We had an institution. It’s called marriage. It is by definition for men and women to enter into.

O: “The Rush Limbaugh Show.”

L: The problem with so many people is that they want to change the definition of morality every so often so that it conforms with their behavior.

O: Weekdays nine to noon.

L: San Francisco just raised a giant middle finger to America and said, “Up yours.”

O: On News Radio 600 KOGO.

L: The rule of law is being given the middle finger.

S: Finding a lender has never been easier. While you’re waiting for your favorite show to come back on, click over to moneyinvest dot com. Within minutes, moneyinvest will go to work for you, comparing offers from more than a thousand different lenders to find you the best deal on a . . .

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Q: So let’s see what the news is tonight according to KOGO, a Clear Channel station.


D: KOGO news time 7:01. I’m Deb Welch in the 24 hour news center. The Al Quaeda cell in Saudi Arabia confirms that its (X) leader and three other militants were killed in a shootout with Saudi forces in Riyadh last night. (X) The cell also vows to continue its holy war. U.S. launched an air strike in Falluja, dropping two 500-pound bombs on a suspected safehouse for a militant leader there: Abu Musab al-Zarqawi. Al Zarqawi’s linked to Al Quaeda and is believed to have masterminded (X) a number of suicide bombings and the beheading of American Nicholas Berg last month.

T: A senior defense official tells ABC News that there is no indic(X)ation Zarqawi was in the building that was bombed. They (X) targeted this area be(X)cause it was a known hideout for the senior official, an Zarqaw(X)i associate, (X) and he himself had apparently been in and out of this (X) hideout over the past few months.

D: Martha Radditz with ABC Radio News. About 500 family and friends gathered at Moffitt Field in Mountainview today to be reunited with loved ones returning home from Iraq. The Olympic torch arrived in New York City today for a five borough tour of the Big Apple two months before the Athens games open. In KOGO sports, the Padres set to play Toronto tonight at Petco Park. KOGO’s updated San Diego weather: cloudy tonight followed by sunny afternoons through Monday with highs in the 70s. Right now 66 degrees in Mira Mesa, 70 degrees downtown. “Coast to Coast” up next. I’m Deb Welch on San Diego’s news, traffic and weather station, the big one, News Radio 600 KOGO.

S: I only made the minimum payment due on our credit cards every month. With the high interest charges, we could never get ahead. Then I heard Ray Vincent on the radio. I called Home Equity Mortgage . . .

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S: How do you avoid paying thousands in new car depreciation? Never buy a new car. That’s how. Hi, it’s Roger Hedgecock for Budget car sales. With the average cost of a new vehicle . . .

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O: . . . Get your financial ducks in a row with The “Ken Stern Asset Planning University Show” featuring George Chamberlin. He’s done his homework so your portfolio can graduate to a more profitable class. It’s “Ken Stern’s Asset Planning University Show.” Because the first step toward securing your financial future is education. This Sunday morning at 9 on News Radio 600 . . .

O: . . . your ethics with a little attitude. “Dr. Laura” weekdays noon to three on News Radio 600 KOGO. (bumper music song “Love Is Alive” performed by Gary Wright begins)

Q: To illustrate my comment about the importance of every decision we make, I think I’ll share some headlines from the Business and Calfifornia sections of the L.A. Times this week. I personally don’t subscribe to the papers but where I work they’re given out for free and sometimes when there’s leftovers I look at them. So I won’t even bother with the headlines. That’s mostly propaganda. But in the Business section for Thursday, June 17th there’s a column by Michael Hiltzik entitled “What’s the Motive in Acquiring WellPoint?”

The people at WellPoint Health Networks Inc. profess to be mystified at why politicians and consumer advocates have suddenly piled on about certain costs of the healthcare company’s proposed $16-billion acquisition by Indianapolis rival Anthem Inc.

It has been known almost since the planned purchase was announced in October, they say, that WellPoint Chairman and Chief Executive Officer Leonard Schaeffer would pocket $37 million in cash out of the deal (plus a lump-sum $45 million payment of accrued and takeover-related pension rights). The corporate change-in-control provisions that will pay hundreds of millions of dollars more to a select group of executives were enacted years ago, they add, and fully disclosed to any investor willing to dive into the Thousand Oaks-based company’s public financial documents . . .

Q: Another headline is “Film Firm Told to Pay $77 Million” – “Producer Elie Samaha’s company fraudulently padded budgets, a jury finds in a partner’s suit.” Then there’s “U.S. Underscores ‘Greed, Betrayal’ of Adelphia Ex-Execs” – “Investors lost money while defendants looted the firm, prosecutor says in his closing argument.” I wonder how many people can identify with that in the business world? On the second page, it says “Boxer Backs Refunds for Electricity” From Bloomberg News.

California Sen. Barbara Boxer on Wednesday formally asked President Bush to force federal energy regulators to stop fighting claims from California consumers stemming from the state’s 2000-01 energy crisis.

Boxer, a two-term Democrat, said in a letter to Bush that he should seek the resignation of any commissioner of the Federal Energy Regulatory Commission who opposes the state’s $8.9-billion claim for refunds from Enron Corp. and other power companies . . .

Q: “White House Urges FCC to Keep Rein on Wholesale Phone Rates” – “The agency is asked to hold prices steady for at least a year and to phase in any hikes gradually.” “Stocks Shrug Off Economic Data.” “Bear Stearns Warned of Fund-Trading Suit” – “The SEC issues the firm a Wells notice amid a probe into possible improper practices.” “Four Beacon Hill Fund Managers Sued.” “Ex-Network Associates CFO Accused of Fraud.” In California: “Smog Credit Trader Held in Fraud Case” – “The suspect helped design a program to cut pollution. She allegedly used it to steal millions from energy firms.” “Momentum Builds Toward Casino Deals” – “Number of tribes likely to sign new pacts rises to nine. But others vow to fight governor’s efforts.” “Lancaster: Man Gets 35 Years to Life for Molesting Girl, 10.” “Los Angeles: Judge OKs Settlement in 2000 Convention Suit.”

A federal judge gave final approval Wednesday to a $1.2 million settlement of a lawsuit filed by 91 demonstrators, reporters and bystanders who alleged they were injured when police tried to disperse the crowd outside the 2000 Democratic National Convention.

U.S. District Judge Florence-Marie Cooper signed the settlement May 7, but gave members of the class action until Wednesday to object. No one did.

Q: “Silver Lake: Man Is Shot, Wounded in Possible Hate Crime.”

A 19-year-old man was shot and critically wounded Tuesday night in a restaurant in what police called a hate crime.

He had walked past a man and woman sitting at Chano’s Restaurant on West Beverly Boulevard at 10:40 p.m., and the woman had made “a derogatory remark about the victim’s perceived sexual orientation,” Los Angeles Police Officer Adriana Sanchez said.

The woman followed the victim, the two argued, the woman slapped the victim and he slapped her back, Sanchez said.

The woman’s companion got a gun from his pickup truck and shot the victim. The couple fled.

Q: “Ex-Official Didn’t See Conflict in Vegas Trip” – “Former San Bernardino County supervisor who voted for billboard deal testifies jaunt was a gift.” “Marine Found Guilty of Raping Corona Teenager” – “Staff sergeant could get life in military prison for the Riverside attack on a potential recruit.” “Badly Beaten Woman ID’d as Drifter From East Coast” by Susan Anasagasti and Mai Tran.

A woman who was sexually assaulted, severely beaten and left for dead in the foothills of the Santa Ana mountains was identified Wednesday as a 20-year-old drifter who had been missing from Massachusetts since last year, officials said . . .

Q: “State Suit Alleges Safeway Sold Tobacco to Kids” – “Attorney general cites 48 violations among stores, including Pavilions and Vons, in last four years.” “Twins Are Held in ‘70 Slaying of Policeman” – “The women are suspected of being accessories in the shooting, police say.” “Berkeley’s Living Wage Ordinance Is Upheld in Federal Appeals Court” – “In the nation’s first appellate-level ruling on the issue, the panel rejects a company’s claim that the city’s law violates its rights.” Friday Business: “Lockyer Sues Enron; FERC to Review Tapes” – “The state attorney general seeks ‘hundreds of millions’ from the energy firm. Regulators may use the new evidence in proceedings.” “Big Firms’ Pension Deficits Continue” – “In the U.S., 1,050 companies report a combined shortfall of $278.6 billion in ‘03.” “Judge Orders Recall of Smokes” – “Brown & Williamson also is told to curb ads for cigarettes packaged with a hip-hop theme said to target children.” “Newsday, Hoy Overstated Circulation; Exec Put on Leave.” “Overcharging Alleged at Nonprofit Hospitals.” A “Dilbert” cartoon by Scott Adams shows an employee telling his boss, “Now that our profits are improving, can I have a raise?” The boss replies, “If I start giving people raises, then profits will plummet and we’ll be nowhere.” The employee then says, “Does your bonus depend on how effectively you oppress me?” The boss answers, “If you don’t like it, try communism.” Friday California: A page 2 article is entitled “Holdout Jurors Can Put Legal System to the Test.” A drawing has the caption: “HIGH PROFILE: A holdout juror in the grand-larceny case against two former Tyco executives reportedly received a threatening letter after her identity was revealed. The judge declared a mistrial.” “Son Tells of Mom’s Role in Slaying” – “Kenneth Kimes testifies that he acted on her orders in the 1998 killing of a Granada Hills businessman, a longtime acquaintance.” By Anna Gorman.

. . . The notorious mother-son con artists were extradited to face charges here after they were convicted of murdering an elderly socialite in New York in a plot to get her multimillion-dollar mansion . . . Kenneth Kimes testified that he and an accomplice, Shawn Little, went to Kazdin’s house . . . Afterward, Kenneth Kimes testified, the two men ate, went to see the movie “The Man in the Iron Mask” and shopped for clothes . . .

Q: “Mother of Dead Baby Arrested After Stop.” “Another Tampered Foor Jar in O.C.” – “Again, a note in a Gerber dessert said it had been poisoned. Both babies are fine.” I think a story on page one has many interesting facets so here is the entire story entitled “Secrecy a Tool in Post-9/11 Case” – “The U.S. fights release of a Saudi living in San Diego County, citing old misdemeanors and shielded information.” By H.G. Reza and Greg Krikorian.

To understand how far the federal government will go to justify targeting individuals in its war on terror, look no further than the case of Hasan Saddiq Faseh Alddin.

A 34-year-old Saudi national, Alddin was questioned by the FBI shortly after the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001. The FBI would not discuss the interview , but Alddin’s attorney said his client and Alddin’s Wisconsin-born wife answered questions, separately, for about two hours at their home in Vista, a hilly suburb of Oceanside.

The agents, Alddin’s attorney said, wanted to know about some of Alddin’s acquaintances, particularly a former roommate who later shared a San Diego apartment with two of the Sept. 11 hijackers. Alddin, according to his attorney, gave the FBI photos of his former roommate and told the agents he had last seen the man in 1999 when, Alddin believed, the man had left the country.

Alddin never heard back from the FBI and, according to several counterterrorism sources, there was not much interest in him after that interview. But that all changed the morning of May 27 this year, when Alddin was mysteriously plucked from obscurity.

Arrested outside the home of an elderly woman he takes care of, he was publicly linked in a press release from the Department of Homeland Security to the two San Diego hijackers, Nawaf Alhazmi and Khalid Almihdhar – albeit one step removed. In its release, the department said Alddin was believed to have roomed with a close friend of the hijackers. Department officials did not call Alddin a terrorist, but their largest investigative arm, the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement, said it had been investigating Alddin ever since Sept. 11 and wanted him out of the U.S., citing two misdemeanor convictions for spousal battery in 1998 and 2000 as grounds for deportation.

Now targeted for deportation, the married father of two is an example of how the government is unapologetically using whatever tools it can to deport foreigners it contends are a threat. And it is doing so without revealing what it says is secret evidence, citing minor crimes that would have gone unnoticed by federal officials before Sept. 11.

At a bond hearing last week, what began as a simple deportation case took on the trappings of a much more significant prosecution. Appearing before Immigration Judge Anthony Attenaid in San Diego, federal prosecutor Kerri Harlin submitted sealed evidence to the judge and invoked national security to urge that the judge not release Alddin on bond.

While Alddin’s wife, Pamela, is supporting her husband’s efforts to fight deportation, Harlin said Alddin’s spousal battery convictions also made him a threat to the community. A continuation of the bond hearing is scheduled for today.

They’re not saying he’s a terrorist,” said Lauren Mack, ICE spokeswoman in San Diego. “They’re just saying they can’t say publicly why [the case] is a national security concern. It could be a concern because the sealed evidence could involve investigative reports, secret sources . . . [and] we want the judge to read this and take this into consideration before he rules on whether Alddin can be released.”

Randy Hamud, Alddin’s attorney, accused the government of double-speak for suggesting that his client is not a terrorist but is a danger to the U.S.

It’s outrageous, but the government’s actions don’t surprise me,” said Hamud. “It’s their often-used method of demonizing a person.”

David Leopold, a Cincinnati immigration attorney and national board member of the American Immigration Lawyers’ Assn., said the federal government’s current focus is to deport people with less-than-perfect records to build statistics that “look good on paper.”

But what drives me absolutely crazy as an immigration lawyer is that, day after day, they are locking up and throwing away the keys on people who are absolutely harmless,” Leopold said.

Officials with Immigration and Customs Enforcement dispute the criticism that they are unfairly raising the specter of terrorism to increase arrests or deportations. “ICE is simply enforcing the law, as it is obligated to do,” said spokesman Dean Boyd in Washington. He added that “finding and apprehending aliens in the U.S. who have been convicted of crimes is a priority for ICE.” Since the attacks of 2001, about 120 people who were subjects of terrorism-related investigations, including five from the San Diego area, have been deported, Boyd said. Mack, the ICE spokeswoman in Dan Diego, said Alddin’s case is one of eight terrorism-related investigations still winding their way through immigration court. In six of the cases, including Alddin’s, the foreign nationals remain in custody.

As records and interviews make clear, federal authorities had obvious reasons for wanting to question Alddin after the attacks on September 2001.

Alddin entered the U.S. on a student visa in August 1994. The next year, while attending classes in San Diego to learn English, he met someone named Hashin Mohsen Alattas, and the two lived together for about a month in a downtown apartment.

Alattas had arrived in San Diego months earlier on a student visa to learn English. But after his visa expired, he remained in the U.S. illegally.

The 49th Street apartment figures prominently in Alddin’s case because it is where Alattas – years after the two were roommates – befriended Alhazmi and Almihdhar, who would be among the hijackers to crash into the Pentagon.

Alhazmi and Amihdhar arrived in San Diego in January 2000, and Alattas’ friends said he met the hijackers at the Islamic Center of San Diego. A month after their arrival, Alhazmi and Almihdhar moved in with Alattas for about two weeks, maybe longer, the friends said. They said Alattas gave up his apartment that same month, when he returned to live in Saudi Arabia.

The friends said it is unlikely that he had prior knowledge of the Sept. 11 attacks. They said he left the country in February 2000, more than 1 1/2 years before the attacks. They describe him as a Muslim who liked the Western lifestyle and was hardly a religious zealot. Ill-disciplined, they said, Alattas used his apartment as a gathering place for recently arrived young Muslim men who would join him in watching pornography and smoking marijuana – vices that made him an unlikely recruit for Al Qaeda.

Still, for authorities, there were plenty of questions about Alattas. A federal watch list in October 2001 states that Alattas arrived in New York City on Sept. 10 on a one-way ticket and “insisted” on a nonstop flight.

The document does not state where Alattas came from that day or what his eventual destination was. The watch list is at odds with statements made by Alattas’ friends, who have insisted that he returned to Saudi Arabia voluntarily in February 2000 to avoid being deported.

Despite this discrepancy about when he left the country, sources said federal authorities now know his whereabouts in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia.

Hamud, Alddin’s attorney, said ICE agents last month pressed Alddin for information about Alattas. And in case there was any doubt about their plans, Hamud said, authorities literally drew Alddin a picture.

One agent, Hamud said, drew a “Y” on paper, put Alddin’s name at the bottom, “U.S.” at the top left and “Saudi Arabia” at the top right. “Tell us the names of everybody you know who hates America,” the agent told Alddin, according to his attorney. “If you do, you can stay here,” the agent said, pointing to the U.S. “If not, we’ll send you here,” the agent added, pointing to Saudi Arabia.

Although authorities picked up Alddin as a result of the probe into Sept. 11, Boyd of ICE said he is convinced that the nation’s increased enforcement of immigration laws would have eventually caught up with the Saudi national, given the agency’s emphasis on apprehending aliens convicted of crimes.

Hamud and other attorneys counter that in its zeal to convince Americans they are safer, the government routinely portray immigration violators as international terrorists.

My client is no more a threat to national security than I am,” Hamud said. “If he is a threat, the irony is that the government is perfectly willing to allow him to return to Saudi Arabia.”