1999 INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST TRANSCRIPT — TAPE #529, SIDE #1


Q: Mark Russell Bell
B: Bell® Phones DigiMate answering machine voice
K: Klarisa, Wood River Corporation
S: Sally Kirkland, hotline message recording
A: hotline voicemail instructor

Q: So I guess this will be tape #4 of my investigative journalist 1999 tapes because listen:

B: You have two new message message (sic). Message one.

K: Mark, this is Klarisa calling for Santa Monica Shores regarding that $50 for key deposit. We looked over our records and it looks like that you originally had paid $25 and then had actually gotten two keys. And then they went ahead and charged the other $25 so I don’t see anything here that shows that there’s supposed to be a return for the $50. If you have any questions, please call me at (gives number). Thanks. Bye.

B: Wednesday 3:38 p.m. Message two.

K: Hi, Mark, this is Klarisa again from Santa Monica Shores. I’m sorry, I don’t think I made that very clear. The char(ge) — these are actual charges, not deposit, and they spoke to the ex-manager, Lucia, and that’s what she said. And she said that these are not refundable. And I’ve checked it with the controller as well about this and that’s what I’ve been told so far. And nobody’s getting refunds on these. They’re actual charges. So if you still have any questions, please call me at (gives number). Bye.

B: Wednesday 3:41 p.m. End of message.

Q: So I must say we get into the territory here of what sales means. When I returned the keys, was I in fact selling them back? I returned two keys. If I had understood that I wasn’t going to be repaid for the keys, then I would not have returned them. Certainly, I would’ve had no use for them but yet there’d have been no incentive for me to give back the keys. So I did go through my file. There were some unsigned brochures that had some information and it did say that “Front door security keys are sold at the rate of $25.00 each. Additional keys are an additional $25.00.” So I just wonder here in terms of what that means — I mean they’re obviously going to sell them again to someone else. So what constitutes a sale? Anyway, Lucia did not tell me at the time when we spoke that they were not refundable. I did mention that to her and she said about the subject. Or I wouldn’t have expected anything. So, anyway, I guess this proves a lot of my points. Now I have a fourth tape to fill. It would be great to be able to find my Bally contract and go over than and have that problem taken care of. But I can’t find my contract. It might be in storage because there is a box of some materials in storage. I really don’t know where to look. I might’ve put it in my pouch where I kept all my various stock transaction forms. I don’t know where that is since I don’t have any more stocks. I did keep them because you’re supposed to keep everything for seven years. I might’ve placed it in there or I might’ve put it in with my stamp collection. No, I don’t think I put it there. I don’t know where I put it. There was so much going on at the time when I joined the gym. But it was very clear that I was joining Bally Total Fitness and I could go to any Bally. Obviously, I didn’t know where I was going to be, where I was going to end up at that time — (“SO I”) was good knowing wherever I went I’d be able to go to a gym and that’s why I was willing to pay so much money. I could prove, as I said before, that the money was charged to my Visa card and it was made out to Bally Total Fitness. So, in any case, I’m glad to be a whistle blower about the psychology of people when they think they’re in business for themselves.

( . . . )

Q: I am reminded about another mistake and that’s with my bank. When I joined the bank, they said there would be no charges as long as I kept a minimum balance of $100 per month. (“BUT”) Then some time later, $2 monthly charges began showing up on my bill. I didn’t make a big deal about it at that time but once when I went in on a Saturday I spoke to the manager and I made clear that it wasn’t a charge for going to other tellers because I only went to the bank’s teller. It was one block from where I used to live. And he said to call back during the week. But, of course, I’d given him all my information—my account number, etc.—and I didn’t really have time — you know how messed-up my life has been. And I thought he would just take care of it but, no, every month there’s that $2 being charged and I really still don’t want to take the time to go in and deal with it all even though I guess I could find my original agreement somewhere. The whole thing is beyond me. I mean I have more important things and maybe that’s what they count on. I mean I don’t understand all this business. “Funny business.”

( . . . )

Q: So it’s Thursday the 17th of June and I was thinking what I would like to do for this tape since I’m going to continue on the investigative journalist premise is do something helpful for people. (“SO”) I was thinking, perhaps, I’d like to do something about breast implants and steroids. I did some research on the Internet. I do remember seeing an article about all the professional wrestlers’ deaths but I haven’t been able to find that article. (“BUT A”) (A)pparently those stories obviously don’t get the same kind of publicity that other stories about the entertainment gets. But, in any case, I found this International Women Magazine with Dr. Toni Grant Bell on the cover. It was a special issue for a local show at the convention center and I noticed there was an article by Sally Kirkland entitled “Sally Kirkland bares her agony” — “My Implant Hell!” It says “Legendary actress recalls how surgery doomed her to a life of pain” from the Globe September 1, 1998 issue. I’ll read it.

If you are considering enhancing the size of your breasts with implants, please think twice. They can destroy your health.

I am writing this to Globe readers in the hope I can help women throughout America avoid the hell I’ve gone through for the last nine years.

I wanted to be a Hollywood movie star with a Marilyn Monroe sex pot image. I paid for my vanity with excruciating muscle pain, chronic fatigue and arthritic pain.

My ordeal began in 1986, after I was offered a part in the movie “Anna,” for which I was nominated for the Best Actress Oscar. There was a nude scene in a bathtub. I had small implants put in because I thought I needed them to look right for the part. The following year, I got double implants for my role in “High Stakes.” But in 1989, my health declined. I started going to the emergency room for one illness after another.

I had hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical expenses. I talked to my friend Cher about my problem and she gave me advice and support.

I had a drastic procedure to have my blood removed, cleansed and put back in me. To my horror the test tubes showed this glue-like substance the doctor told me was silicone that had leaked into my system. I was told I was pre-lupus, pre-cancer and had the Epstein-Barr virus.

Eventually, I had the silicone implants removed in 1995 and replaced with saline ones. But even saline implants have a potentially dangerous silicone casing, which can leak into your system.

Now, I’ve gone full circle and had the implants removed by Dr. Randall Hayworth. It was my sixth and last surgery on my breasts. I’m back to being a small breasted woman again. Well, 36-small C! And I’m happy.

But it will take time to detoxify my body. I pray that one day I’ll have my health back.

If you have implants and think you may be having problems, don’t wait like I did to get help. See a doctor immediately. You can also call my hotline number and I’ll do my best to point you in the right direction.

Q: So that’s very admirable — an actress who’s actually talking out about her problem without worrying about what it will do to her career and what parts she won’t get because of it, etc. There’s a bio here. I guess she was a speaker at this convention and, of course, it mentions that she “was nominated for a Best Actress Oscar, and walked off with acting honors including the Los Angeles Film Critics Award, the Hollywood Foreign Press Association’s Golden Globe Award, the Independent Spirit Award, as well as an award for Women in Film.” It says she also was nominated for a second Golden Globe for “The Haunted: A True Story.” Anyway, it says, “Kirkland is a published poet, and her paintings have been exhibited in galleries on both coasts. She is an ordained minister in the Church of the Movement of Spiritual Inner Awareness, and hosts her own weekly West Coast radio show, which focuses on alternative health and practical spirituality.” So maybe I’ll give the hotline a call. I would like to find out about her radio show. I’m sure she’s had some paranormal — well everyone has.

( . . . )

Q: But all this: the Hollywood, the golden idols, the ordained minister, the honesty, the implants shows how we can be complex as human beings and not necessarily can we say spirituality is meditation or put it in some kind of lofty notion while keeping our checkbook put away from those less fortunate than ourselves. Anyway, let’s go ahead and call the hotline.

( . . . )

S: Hey there, this is Sally Kirkland — a little laryngitis right now. You’ve dialed into the hotline for the Kirkland Institute for Implant Syndrome Survival, somewhat of a grassroots support group. Please leave your name, your city, your telephone number, the best time I can reach you considering I’m in Los Angeles and how late I can call you, which is always easier for me late at night and very early in the morning. One of the things I’m suggesting to people right now is to subscribe to Alternative Medicine Magazine and you can do that by calling 1-800-333-HEAL and you might ask for the back issues on silicone toxicity. Also, the teacher medicine book Burt Goldberg presents Chronic Fatigue, Fibromyalgia and Environmental Illness. On a spiritual level: Spiritual Warrior, The Art of Living by John Roger; Forgiveness, The Key to the Kingdom by John Roger. Got to cough — (coughs) sorry. Should you want to reach me on my website, that’s www.sallykirkland.com and if you want to Email me, you can click in there, plus read about KIISS, plus Email me at (gives Email address). You can also click into www.msia.org and subscribe to a loving thought each day free of charge which has been very helpful to me. Also: www.forgive.org with many wonderful words on forgiveness and a quote from me. And: www.spiritualwarrior.org — words about how we are all spiritual warriors and, of course, how to get these two books. And also refer you to my surgeon, should you want explantation, Dr. Randall Hayworth in Beverly Hills—he also does wonderful reconstruction with your own tissue—and various alternative medicine practitioners including Dr. Lee Cowdin from Dallas, Texas, a brilliant man who just did a silicone detox cleanse with me. If you are suffering from other autoimmune illnesses or just plain confusion of what your symptomology is. I’ll be glad to try and help you. Please be perseverant about finding me. I’m getting back to people as best I can on a one-on-one level and there are quite a bit of people to get back to. The positive news is that my explantation surgery August 12th was incredibly successful. I do actually have breasts now from my own tissue and —

A: You may start your message now. (tone)

Q: Oh hi Sally. I picked up a copy of International Women Magazine and — in fact, I maybe wanted to include some information at my own website. And I was surprised to see that you have your own radio show. I (“‘M HERE”) am living here in the valley and didn’t know that so I — (“WOULD LIKE”) I’ll go to your website. I wanted to try to get more information on the radio show so I hope that’s there. I already have some information on Gulf War Syndrome and I’m interested in also the horrors of steroids abuse — or I should say use. Anyway, if you give me a call, I’d appreciate it. My name is Mark and I’m at (gives number). Thank you.

( . . . )

Q: So it hasn’t been a very good day, I would say — well every day’s a good day but I got up earlier — I woke up earlier than I expected and I was thinking. And I heard a noise from my computer so I got up, thinking that I was supposed to do something but I really couldn’t decide what to do. (“CAUSE”) I’m all the time thinking, “What can I do?” — to deliver various messages. So I thought and thought and I decided — well here’s what I sent. I sent to Drudge at www.drudgereport.com:

Subject: Hollywood Cover-Ups and the Supernatural

I’ve noticed you’ve had a couple of links to book articles recently so I hope you’ll consider such a link for the free Internet edition of TESTAMENT/NEW TESTAMENT at testament.org

There’s even a transcript of my May 22, 1997 telephone conversation with Art Bell’s wife, Ramona.

(testament.org/new_testament/t216s2.html)

Matt, have you seen the cover of the new Barenaked Ladies album?

Q; My mother interrupted me. She wanted to say, “Come and look on TV. Demi Moore’s first husband is going to be interviewed.” I said, “Please. I have more important things.” I was upset when I saw the cover for the new Barenaked Ladies album last night. Anyway, I guess it’s subject to interpretation. Of course, you probably know me by this time if you’ve read a lot of the transcripts—or if I ever have my own radio show: just playing back all the tapes—that I usually immediately try to interpret it from a very egotistical or egoistic vantage point and I usually end up with a more — larger interpretation. But, in any case, it still was very disturbing to see. So today I went to the gym after sending the Email and on the way home I saw a license plate holder with the word “Silverado” in it, which is probably one of the worst ones for me because not only is the word evil in silver, (“BUT”) there’s ra there too. So it was like ‘evil ra” and I thought, “Oh no, now what have I done? And I was just upset. I was upset all day — could barely do anything and then I went out to mail my father’s, father’s day card and I noticed there was another license plate holder with the word evil in it. Something that didn’t have ra in it but just the word evil. And then (there was) another one (with the word evil) within a name of a dealership. So I just realized well Mighael’s sort of kidding; He’s sort of showing me how silly it is to see evil everywhere. It doesn’t always necessarily mean a reflection on me. In fact, the whole names and words within names is fundamentally a mystery and I do tend to overdo it at times. I’m aware of that myself. I mean poor Megan. But it’s just something that I’ve noticed — that these words are significant. (“BUT”) Who is to really say in the context and, perhaps, there are exceptions — I mean it is fundamentally a mystery is really what I should say. I hope this doesn’t sound too flaky. I mean I assure you I am a very intelligent, normal person. In fact, just today at lunch I was reading Astronomy magazine, the April 1999 edition. Anyway, what can I say? Well, anyway, I guess I am a scientist’s worst nightmare because I am very emotional. But I have given a lot of thought to the word science, to what science entails, what it involves, and I think I was once—when I was a teenager—at the same point of most scientists, thinking that if you see a poster about the planets or about the solar system or something, these people really know what they’re talking about; that comets are “dirty snowballs” — even though I don’t think at the time I was a teenager people believed that. If they did, I wasn’t aware of it. You know what I’m trying to say. It’s just that as a scientist, we’re pretending to know a lot more than we know and have a lot more proof than we really have just about everything. That’s what all my tape sides document so well.

( . . . )

Q: Do you remember the myth of the struggling scientist, oppressed by society, impoverished but struggling with a new insight to share with the masses? Well times have changed. On page 34 there’s this small paragraph under “Event Horizon.”

Scientific Research Pays

The McDonnell Foundation has awarded $1 million each to 10 young research scientists whose work is expected to “contribute substantially to the development of knowledge and its responsible application.” In the category of astrophysics and cosmology, the beneficiaries are Christopher Stubbs of the University of Washington, who designed and built a camera used to study gravitational lensing, and John Carlstrom of the University of Chicago, whose research helped draw conclusions about the mass density and ultimate fate of the universe.

Q: So I was looking for the article warning about steroids abuse and I came upon at one of the search engines “Justin’s Celebrity E-Mail Addresses” page. Can you believe it? I think I’ll go ahead and send my press release to some of the celebrities, at least. I won’t bother with the sports athletes — well maybe I should. I don’t know. I mean they have a lot of money. And there aren’t that many. (“O I”) Why don’t I just go ahead — oh my goodness, they have — well I’ll just read the names. It might be of interest. This is the list of the moment. It isn’t really a lot. It’s just a few. It does say at the bottom, “If you have any other addresses you would like me to add, or comments, Email me at . . . The page has only been accessed 3762 times. That’s a lot I guess but anyway I’ll read the list of people that it has. That’s terrible — I mean I get so much spam myself and I don’t like it. Well I’ll go ahead and send them some Email because they’ll finally be getting some Email that they’ll appreciate if they’re smart. “Paul Bearer — WWF Manager; Larry Bird — Basketball Player/Coach; Eric Bischoff — WCW; Marlon Brando — AMC Actor; Sandra Bullock — Actress; Drew Carey — Actor; Chyna — WWF Woman; Tom Cruise — Actor; Billy Ray Cyrus — Singer; DDP — WCW Wrestler; Clint Eastwood — Actor; Carmen Electra — Model; Bill Gayes — Creator of Microsoft” oh no “Bill Goldberg — WCW Wrestler; Owen Hart — WWF Wrestler; Chris Jericho — WCW Wrestler; Jewel — Singer; Kanton — WCW Wrestler; Billy Kidman — WCW Wrestler; Ricki Lake — Talk Show Host; Madonna — Singer; Mankind — WWF Wrestler; Edgar Martinez — Baseball Player; Jenny McCarthy — Model; Eddie Money — Singer; Warren Moon — Football Player; Demi Moore — Actress; Alanis Morissette — Singer; Alonzo Mourning — Basketball Player; ‘Mene’ Gene Okerland — WCW Announcer; Tom Petty — Singer; Sable — WWF Woman; Will Smith — Actor and Singer; Wesley Snipes — Actor; Howard Stern — DJ; Frank Thomas — Baseball Player; John Travolta — Actor; Lee Trevino — Golfer; Vader — WWF Wrestler; Oprah Winfrey — Talk Show Host; Alex Wright — WCW Wrestler.” I think I’ve already sent Email to Oprah. At least, it said it went to her directly but I don’t think it did. I don’t know. I can’t believe how many wrestlers they have on this list. I mean who cares? Anyway, (“O DOESN”) what the heck, I’ll go ahead and send them my news release.

( . . . )

Q: If one of the wrestlers sends me Email back, I can maybe ask them if they know of any websites about steroids abuse or stories or anecdotes — or friends who might’ve died with amputations, etc.

( . . .)

Q: So about half of them (addresses) came back “returned” — the individuals have changed their Email address. And some of these I know aren’t right; for example, Drew Carey — it’s actually going to ‘DrewCShow’ so that tells you it probably won’t get to him. So I figure about twenty were delivered. Of course, it might be going to the fan mail people or whatever but you just never know in spiritual matters.

( . . . )

Q: So I deleted the names that came back from my mailing list. There’s no copy of the one I sent to Wesley Snipes and Howard Stern so I wonder why? I looked in my trash bin too. Isn’t that strange?

( . . . )

Q: So I did a search to see if there were any other celebrity (Email) sites and fourteen different addresses came up. Can you believe it?

( . . . )

Q: So the next site I visited is “Chip’s Celebrity Home and Email Addresses.” I clicked under celebrity Email addresses and I couldn’t believe how long the free listing is.

( . . . )

Q: So I’m going to be selective here. I’m going to send to “The Today Show,” “NBC Nightly News,” “Dateline NBC.” I don’t know what “Later” is but I’ll go ahead and send a press release. It is very newsworthy, after all. Of course, I won’t do television. “Leeza.” They don’t know that they’re being featured at my website yet because I haven’t added those new — oh never mind.

( . . . )

Q: So I’m sending Email to USA Today reporter Bill Welch, Andrew Lloyd Webber, Dr. Jack Van Impe. Oh I’ll send one to James Van Praagh; after all, he’s even mentioned in the press release. I went to his website but he wasn’t accepting Email so I don’t know if this will get through or not.

( . . . )

Q: How weird. For James, it says one Email address on the list but then when you click on it, it goes to another one.

( . . . )

Q: So I sent sixty-three more Emails and I guess whoever they go to can appreciate what I’m sending.

( . . . )

Q: So it’s Friday. I checked my Email and two more were undeliverable and two more were not delivered because the mailboxes were full.

( . . . )

Q: So I get my news from the Internet. I see here on the Drudge Report page — it’s a very popular page. It says here that there were “21,171,706 visits to Drudge Report in the past 31 days.” What makes it so popular is the listing of various AP, reporter, columnist, UPI , Reuters links and then other information sites. You just click on them and you go to the site. So today, of course, there is no mention of my suggested website. The headline is “Los Angeles Mayor Has Growing Concern After Y2K Tests Fail.” And then in smaller letters above that, it says, “Clinton is said to order CIA to destabilize Milosevic’s regime.” The other headlines he has are “Tens of thousands to form human chain in Third World debt protest”; “Spielberg Shocked at New Kubrick Book”; “Round Three: Feds Ready to Indict [Don] King Again.” And then there’s a photo and it says “First Cloned Human Embryo Revealed!”; “Times: Inside The Serb Torture Chamber.” And all of these basically will take you to an article at another website at these topics. So, as an investigative journalist, this is really what I think my job entails — is helping to spread awareness of issues like this. The fact that there is an alternative to the newspapers and other information sources that depend on advertising to make money even though, unfortunately, the Internet advertising is growing and growing and growing. In fact, there are ads here at the Drudge Report. I went to this article about the “First cloned human embryo revealed.” The link brought me to the BBC News Thursday, June 17, 1999 and it says underneath the photo: “The first cloned human embryo: a collection of stem cells produced using nuclear transfer.”

Details of the first human embryo to be cloned have been released.

The watershed achievement in biotechnology actually happened last November, but more information was revealed on Thursday. It was achieved using a cell from a man’s leg and a cow’s egg.

The scientists who created the clone see it as a significant step forward in the search for a way of producing human stem cells.

These are “master cells” which can develop into any type of cell — skin, bone, blood etc. They are believed to have the potential to provide perfect-match tissue for transplantation and the treatment of diseases such as Parkinson’s and stroke.

Cloning Questions

But this development will also see a significant heightening of the debate over the ethics of human cloning and , indeed, what it means to be a human.

American Cell Technology (ACT), a leading, private biotechnology company, cloned the first human embryo and let it develop for twelve days before destroying it. In a normal pregnancy, an embryo implants into the womb wall after 14 days.

Dr. Robert Lanza, ACT’s director of tissue engineering, told the Daily Mail newspaper that the embryo cannot be seen as a person before 14 days. The company say they have released news of the discovery to try to allay fears over the artificial conception of life.

It is believed that many more human embryos have been created and destroyed since November. Then it was announced that stem cells had been cloned, not that embryos had been allowed to develop.

No cloned children

ACT say they have no intention of attempting to use a cloned human embryo to start a pregnancy — their aim is “therapeutic cloning” not “reproductive cloning”.

Lord Robert Winston, a British fertility expert, said the research was “totally ethical”.

But opponents say that they development of the technology makes the eventual birth of a human clone inevitable. This, they say, would have profound implications for the nature of family relationships, the law and health.

Tough technology

The technology used to create the clone was very similar to that used to make Dolly the Sheep. Over 200 embryos were used before Dolly finally appeared, showing that cloning is not a well-understood or easy-to-perform technique.

It is understood that ACT used a cow’s egg. This had its DNA removed and replaced with human DNA. The new cell was then chemically persuaded to behave like a new embryo and start dividing. This is how ACT hope to cultivate stem cells.

But Dr. Maisam Mitalipova, a pioneer of this human-cow type of cloning, told the Daily Mail: “We didn’t get good quality embryos and so they may not get good quality stem cells.”

Cloning competition

Another US company, Geron, are also reported to be attempting to clone human embryos for therapeutic purposes.

They recently bought all the shares in Roslin Bio-Med, a company set up to commercialize the cloning expertise of the Roslin Institute, Scotland, where Dolly the sheep was created.

Geron has not publicly stated whether their attempts have been successful and it may be that ACT have achieved the feat first.

Q: There’s a photo caption that says “‘Nuclear transfer’ cloning requires the egg to be hollowed out” and the same photo appears at the Drudge Report. There are also links to other relevant articles and BBC News stories such as “Human cloning experiments underway” from June 18; and from May 27 “Is Dolly old before her time?” So there’s a lot available on the Internet that doesn’t necessarily make its way to your newspapers and magazines and TV shows.