Q: Mark Russell Bell
L: Ellen Russell
B: Michael Russell

Q: So listen to what’s on the radio.

and if you fall, I’ll pick you up

and if you court this disaster

I’ll point you home . . .

You think we’re here to play

a game of who loves more than whom

And if you call, I will answer

Q: So we have the disaster theme, the home theme — all the usual themes; the love theme and the game theme. (“WELL”) Just look at the cover of the first book. By the way, I just did my laundry again. It’s Friday. It’s laundry day. After dropping off my mother, I did my laundry and now I’m picking up a few supplies. (song continues) That’s another theme. I can’t tell if he’s saying “rebuild,” “rebel” or “reveal”. They’ve come a long way since “If I Had $1,000,000.” (new song begins)

I want you to know . . .

Q: So I just went into Radio Shack to get some batteries for the tape recorder. And, of course, my poor mom — all she does is watch TV all day and the reception is terrible so, ironically, I thought I might get her a better antenna even though I don’t think she should be watching it at all. What a crazy situation. Of course, they tried to sell me the most expensive model. I said, “Which one do you recommend?” And they always recommend the most expensive one. If that doesn’t tell you what life is in this day and age, then I don’t know what would. How sad that all people like my mother have is television. That’s all she has. She sits on her bed playing Solitaire and watching TV all day. Of course, my book didn’t open up any new horizons for her, to put it mildly. This will be the last of the (1999) cassettes. These will be the two ‘unplanned’ tapes.

( . . . )

Q: So I’m almost at the apartment building. I’ll have to put in new batteries when I get home. Today, that “Austin Powers” sequel is coming out and I just wonder if people ever think about what they’re seeing, about ‘Is this really what I need in my life?’ Do they consider — no, they don’t.

( . . . )

Q: To give you some idea of what my life is like, I spend a lot of time on the Internet. So what better way to acquaint you with my progress or lack thereof in this arena (than) by sharing with you some of my Email? I have sent out my most recent press release to a large number of people. For example — I’m going down my ‘Email Sent’ list — it’s in alphabetical order. There are a lot like this one here from ALCat just simply saying “Subject: remove” — after they received my press release. In this case, I had been receiving these “Osirisgrams” from this individual but all of a sudden—after my press release—I got the old “remove” so I guess it’s alright for me to receive Email from these characters but when I send something back I get the old “remove.” This one was dated February 21st of this year. So let’s see — going down the list, we see — oh here’s one. From “Audiolab.” Actually his name is ‘edge____’ and then his web provider (is his Email address). I basically first contacted him after reading one of his messages on the Wire newsgroup. Or is it a bulletin board? I guess it’s a bulletin board. This time — his final Email to me — it turned out he was — he said that he was going to become a minister (on a message posted at the Wire reflector site). But, anyway, in this last Email from him to me, he just wrote:

Dude, you’re psycho!

I am not gay, and everyone is NOT gay, especially God.

Don’t email me again.

If you do, you will be reported.


What if the hokey pokey really IS what it’s all about?

Peace y’all.

Q: So let’s see — going down the list. It’s a long list. I should weed it out some time. You know, how you keep putting things like that off. Cliff Crook — oh, let’s look at Cliff’s most recent Email to me. I told him about my Variety ad. Of course, I did mention I gave him a copyright. (“C” or “SEE”) He said “Thank you for the transcript.” I sent him a transcript of the (radio) interview where I mentioned him. Oh here’s one from Carol (Cliff’s wife):

Thanks for the transcript, Mark. I was able to download the site also and put it in our “favorites” file. Have a good weekend. Carol.

Q: I should give you their website address too. It’s: www.angelfire.com/biz/bigfootcentral; there’s another website too at: www.suresite.com/wa/b/bigfoot So let’s go down the list. Cliff Rothman. He took me off his list after, once, I Emailed a reply to his list because why not? I mean this is news everyone could use. (“O”) There’s a lot of interesting Email here but I won’t bore you because they’re only interesting to me — a lot of this stuff. I had some funny adventures with this — what’s it called? This “Bible Prophecy discussion and news sharing list.” It’s called BIBLE_PROPHECY-L . . . Well you can imagine. I mean the administrator wouldn’t even put my comments up on this prophecy discussion list. Can you believe it? Anyway, I contacted a number of them — oh well. Who knows if all that story will ever come out — (“I”) don’t even remember if I spoke about it. I’m sure I must’ve way back when. So going down the list some more — oh I had quite a time with the Art Bell Chat Club in Phoenix. Doug Richardson ended up telling me not to to contact any of the members so basically I haven’t except one of them who contacted me and so I’ve been sending him Email. For those who do care. Let’s see — going down the list, there are several metaphysical journalists here who won’t have anything to do with me. (“FACT”) Well I’ll read you one of the best ones. I tried to have my Publicists Guild article published and it says — hold on, I can’t — it’s cutting off the side of the Email so I can’t read it all. I don’t know (“WHA”) what that is. (“WE[LL]”) Okay, here’s one. I guess I should read the first letter (7-21-98) I received.

Thank you for your submission. I don’t usually take interviews. I read your material and still am not sure what point you are making. . . what is the intent of the article? I usually only deal with articles which give actual pieces of information which a person might consider in their spiritual development. Your article says alot about you, but I don’t see the kind of information on which someone else could grow.

Q: This is a metaphysical journalist, mind you. So then I wrote back:

It’s difficult to know what approach would be most effective in my communications with journalists. I’ve taken a hard news approach as follows (without much success).

testament.org is a news source consisting of Q&A interviews, journals and photographic evidence proving God’s love and reincarnation. What other news could be more relevant than this?

Q: Then she writes (7-23-98):

Mark, you seem to be in a quandary about what to do next . . . so I will share my feelings with you. First, take the focus off of you and put it on the message. Second, give something people can work with and use. You don’t have to prove God’s existence. The people who know . . . know. And the people who don’t . . . are not going to be swayed from their position. But both groups will respond to genuine warmth, words of encouragement and appreciation and insights garnered. Your show biz background is coming through as “flashy” as opposed to “years of wisdom gained, having gone through a process which would prepare you to do ‘God’s’ work.” If you can use any of this, do so . . . if not, that’s what the delete button is for.

Good luck on your adventure,


Q: So let’s go down the list. I mean — oh well, what can I say? There must be a few encouraging ones mixed in here somewhere. Let’s see what this one is — oh this was somebody who added me on their — a journalist who actually — it says:

Hi: We might like to use your site suggestion in our Insite column in the Journal Sentinel. All right to use your name and town of residence in the paper? Thanks Jackie Loohauis

Q: So, of course, I was a little confused — she wanted my hometown, of course. It’s on my website but I ended up telling her my hometown. She needed that. (“AN[D]”) She did run something too. Nothing very significant — (“JUST”) sort of a referral. (“BUT”) Better than what most people did with the information when I contacted them (as far as I know). Here’s some more of my Email exchanges with Wire — that’s the U2 fan club website. Wirelings they’re called. My voice just got weird on that last note. Sometimes I wonder if I’m getting some of these wrong because my voice can really be all over the place as if you didn’t know. So let’s see — going down the list. Here was an interesting one. From ‘Kelvington.’ It says:

Dear Mr. Bell,

Thank you for the pointer to the web site, I downloaded the “boook” is this the source material for the Karios book to be coming out?

Thank you for your time and attention.

Yours Truly,

Rick Kelvington

Q: This was (dated) Wednesday, October 7, 1998. I had some mail — sometimes when I was listening to the Art Bell show I would send Email messages to his guests. Of course, now I do listen to Hilly and so my rule isn’t quite as strong as it was about never listening to Art. I mean once I accidentally listened to him for a few minutes because they were playing back the final hour (of the previous night’s show) but — anyway, I see problems with Hilly’s show too in terms of the same old people with the same old military background. I mean you really have to wonder about Art and Hilly. I mean Hilly says he’s a journalist but I don’t know. When that person started talking about the clandestine technology and Hilly wouldn’t let him get off the subject (Tesla), it made me think Majestic 12. Okay, going down the list some more — a lot of Bells (“PEOPLE” “WHEN”). Sometimes when I see the name Bell, I’ll send an Email. It hasn’t really gotten me anywhere. (“BUT”) Going down the list — I don’t want to waste tape space on this but — a lot of Email from my webmaster. He’s been pretty good, all things considered. (“OKAY”) He’s very busy these days. There’s a Marc Bell I got some Email from because we were getting confused — someone confused us. He’s at some UFO organization in Great Britain. He wrote basically — I guess (“SOME [O]N[E]”) Max Burns got us confused so Marc jut wrote to me:

Hi Mark,

Many thanx for the info, so that’s where some of my mail has gone eh Max? (he’s a nice chap).

And another co-incidence is my studio engineer (I run a recording studio/record label etc. as a business) is Mark Russell!

My wife is a theology graduate too . . . . . but as you’ve found out I’m a rather old UFO researcher.

All the best,

Marc Bell

Q: Going down the list some more. What’s this? Max Cacas. Like in caca? Now it’s funny I — he had this Email on a discussion group that I was a member of for a while. Basically, he wrote:


Now showing on “free!”, the new Freedom Forum Online (www.freedomforum.org) . . . what we believe are exclusive details of a just-announced alliance between Microsoft and United Press International.

Read all about it at:



– Max

NOTE: In the interest of time, this message is being cross-posted to the Online News, SPJ-L, and Webcasting newslists. We apologize in advance to anyone receiving multiple copies of this post.

Q: So I thought, “Oh this guy would be perfect to get my press release: freedom of speech, etc. So I sent him my press release and this is what I get back. Talk about freedom of speech in the ’90s.


Q: Isn’t that interesting? He thinks nothing of spaming everyone on those discussion lists but I send him a press release—just to one person—and he goes apeshit. Well I think his name says it all in this case. Going down the list. (“I”) Sent Michael my brother all kinds of horror stories about Mad Cow Disease and what happens when you eat meat. And, of course, he’s totally oblivious to all of it and so is Steve, his lover. (“HUM”) Let’s see, there’s some communi(cation) — well (“[L]ET’S SEE”) what did I get? This is the last message that I got from Mike Dash. It was just:

Dear Mark

This is to confirm you have permission to reproduce the FT article ‘Stone Throwing Spook of Little Dixie’ on the Testament net site.

Joe McNally will be reviewing your book in Fortean Times number 104.


Mike Dash

Q: Of course, that’s the last Email I’ve received from him and I’ve sent him a lot. And, needless to say, the book’s never been reviewed (by FT). Going down the list some more — God, I feel like I’m one of these people on some kind of a show. A lot of people named Bob — (“O” “HAVE”) Bob somewhere in their name or Roberts or Roberta or — I do get Email from ‘Bob’ people too. So (“LET’S SEE”) a lot of Newsmax breaks. Of course, I’ve sent them a lot of information. Nothing has ever been done. Okay let’s see — Paul Seniura. I think he’s the reincarnation of someone who was famous. He’s got long Email. I won’t read it. (“BUT HE’S”) An interesting character — I can’t remember offhand the story there. What’s this? Oh. ‘Radioman.’ The first one I sent him was dated October 1997. And he wrote back:

Thanks for the tip … always looking for new links !


Q: So then I sent him a news release in February — on February 23, 1999. And he wrote back:

Hi :

Marduk has already spoken recently :

Q: And he put a link up to his site. This was signed:

73’s radioman

Q: Well what does that have to do with me? I mean there are a lot of people who can say anything obviously in this time when people invent things and they say it’s channeled and God only knows who or what’s channeling what. I mean anyone can say that they’re anyone sending any message and — anyway, I’ve never claimed to be channeling Marduk or whatever. Even though you wonder about a lot of it. Anyway, so then I contacted him on February 25, 1999. I wrote:

I don’t understand the relevance of your comment. The following is your previous message.

Q: So he wrote back:

Hi again :

I think the Email program messed up – am sending myself one to be sure …

I wanted to thank you for your e-mail – I’m always adding links – in addition I wanted to pass on recent channelings of Marduk from three different channelers archived at :


Been collecting them since last September – interesting stuff




Q: Can you believe it? Well obviously this Email didn’t go over too well with me but I’m quite happy to say that my website is not a link on his site. What a collection there. So I’m going down my list. Oh here’s somebody. “From: Robbie Robinson” — yeah, can you believe it? I get Email from people with names like that. Anyway, I won’t — waste time (“BY”) reading what he wrote. Here’s a Robert King — oh wait, what’s this? When I was on a newsgroup, somebody with the last name King and named Robert made a joke out of one of my newsgroup postings and just said:

And when he leaves again, we can say “Ta ta, Ra-Ta.”

Q: Because I’d written “In October 1958″—which was a wrong year I found out later and corrected it (on other Email)—”Edgar Cayce predictdd the ancient Egyptian priest he called Ra-Ta (“Sun-Earth”) would return to the world in 1998.” Of course, Robert King thought he was being clever but, of course, he’s a Bob so he would think that was clever. Going down the list. A lot of it is dull stuff. Oh here’s one. One of the people I met via the Art Bell show I sent Email (“TO”) — Terrence McKenna, who’s been sick recently and I tried to get a referral to him for Gene Egidio. (“JUST”) Basically, I wrote to him and said, “How would you appraise on the novelty scale a case study of what is usually referred to as the second coming?” (“HE”) His trip is this big ‘novelty scale’ so he wrote back:

Were the Second Coming to occur it would certainly be highly novel, close to the maxima, I should think.



Q: So I always get excited when I contact these people who seem so enlightened because I know that they’ll see that my book is the truth and that maybe they’ll mention me on one of their publicity appearances. But they never seem to have, yet. (“LAST” “THA[T] WAS”) I think the last Art Bell show I ever listened to, he was the guest and, (of) course, he didn’t mention me but he did make a crack about “Madonna’s child.” Anyway, going down my list, here’s something from Tany’s assistant Jill. She says:

Hi Mark, your website is remarkable. . . . Have a good day, Jill

Q: So, see, I do get good responses. I met her later when I was at a temp agency. She was actually employed at a temp agency I went to. Here’s some Email dated May 22, 1999. This was from Terry — (“WHO’S”) Email name is ksamurai. I’d written basically — told him about a Mars site I found interesting and mentioned that I’d driven on the freeway north of Phoenix. I said:


Have you seen the following?


I find the Surveyor images more compelling than those of Pathfinder — but, then again, I’ve driven the freeway north of Phoenix.

Would you provide some context for your work, explaining your thoughts on this new face?

Q: So he wrote back:

Cool page you have Mark!

I found my New Face on Mars in the late evening of April 6, 1999. (My birthday!) while just loading random coordinates into the Armchair Astronaut. When I saw that face I almost fell off my chair. All of the images of it taken to date are from Viking. There were actually 9 different images taken of it over a 2 year period. 8 of them are featured on my page and I have yet to find a copy of the 9th. Naturally, I’m very excited about it and can’t wait until the MOC images this same area again!

Q: His page is users.flnet.com/~ksamurai/newface.html So I’ll go down the list some more. What’s this one here? Oh the last Email I got regarding my press release was just from somebody whose comment was:

Great! Now we can find out positively how the pyramids were built and when.

Q: This one was named Wayne Green. I don’t know why they always have to make some kind of smartass comment. Why don’t they just wait and visit the site — and have an open mind? But they don’t seem to do that. Well, anyway, you get the picture. I want to save some room on this tape for something a little bit more important. But you can see that not everything is a bad review.

( . . . )

Q: So I checked my Email after sharing with you those comments and again I’m getting porno spams. (“I ME[AN]”) I don’t think what I send to people is spam. I think there’s a big difference between what I send — nicely worded press release and these — this one for example. It says: “Subject: FREE PICS AND LIVE VIDEO (28635) . . . Date: Fri, 11 Jun 1999 11:39:56 -0400 (EDT) . . .”

From Harry49611 . . .24HR LIVE JAPANESE SEX – EXPLICIT ASIAN EXTREME 21+ RATING INCLUDES LIVE TEEN ASIAN GIRLS DORM Underground Asian Movie Section.” It gives the web address and it says, “Never seen before on the net Over 19000 hardcore HI-Res pictures FREE includes TEEN ASIAN BONDAGE 12000+ Stories – Every category FREE inc Asian School Girl TABOO FREE LIVE ****ING WITH SOUND & CHAT. 45 Exclusive LIVE Hidden Cameras – shower cam, secretary cam, tanning booth cam and even TOILET BOWL CAM! ‘THIS SITE SPECIALIZES IN THE HARD TO FIND PICTURES'” And then it says, “24HR LIVE HARDCORE EXTREME ***ING ADULT SITE 21+ RATING . . . If you like it hardcore and ****ing down and dirty this site is what you need. We have thousands of Absolutely ****ing stunning YOUNG uninhibited *** catchers for your pleasure. Never seen before pics and live teen videos of the NASTIEST, RAUNCHIEST, WET, *** FILLED entertainment available on the internet today. 50000 pics, 16000 video feeds, Live Video with sound HIDDEN CAMS. **** SITE EXPLICIT PICS JUST ADDED – YOUNG ASIAN TEENS ****ING – AMSTERDAM AND SWEDISH **** ORGIES, NOTHING IS TABOO – CHECK IT OUT NOW

Q: And then a link and the number 98326. I mean this is horrendous. I mean I feel bad even sharing it with you (I replace vulgar language with *s) but I am an investigative journalist after all and feel compelled to show just how ill society is. I mean come on — what about the story of Sodom and Gomorrah? So, anyway, another — the only other Email I got just now was from Newsmax: breaking news from www.newsmax.com It used to be once in a while you’d get something sensational but now you just get pretty much standard breaking news stories. Listen to how bland this is.

Breaking News www.newsmax.com

Continued coverage of the war in Kosovo

Text of Clinton’s Address to Nation

The Caspian Connection: Pipeline Politics and the Balkan War Carl Limbacher and Caron Grich

A new virus is currently spreading across the Internet

Read Carl Limbacher’s exclusive report on Inside Cover today:


Q: I wonder who’s been getting my Email messages there. And all I can say about old Drudge is he’ll have a link to a synopsis of the new book Hannibal but will he even mention my web address?

( . . . )

Q: The reason why I find it interesting to go to the Wire — that’s the U2 fan newsgroup/bulletin board/whatever is because, after my Email postings there, the way people just dismiss it and continue their hawking and selling of CDs and other fan paraphernalia. It just really — I don’t know. It’s just fascinating to me how trivial life can be for these celebrity worshipers. I mean go there and read it some time. I mean it’s just a mentality that’s unfortunate.

( . . . )

Q: I have to laugh. I just went to the “Sightings” website that does have some good articles mixed in with all the shlock — even though, my goodness, they would never think of mentioning me. But there’s a review of the new book version of Joseph Firmage’s website. This review is by Mark Williams for the Red Herring magazine. “It’s 292 pages and costs $24.95.” So that’s more than my book and my book is 1,100 pages. Anyway, I won’t bore you with the review but I just think that’s ironic. I’ll have to send him some Email about my website.

( . . . )

Q: So I’m getting ready to go pick Ellen up from dialysis. It should be soon that transportation is arranged through one of the various companies that provides that service for the elderly or disabled. Anyway, I’m reading at the gym these days and today at the laundromat the book that my brother loaned me entitled Monster: living off the big screen by John Gregory Dunne. All I can say is that it confirms all of my worst suspicions about the Hollywood process. I mean here’s proof.

( . . . )

Q: I’m very upset Variety hasn’t called me back. It’s been a week now since I called. So I’ll check my mail tomorrow and see if there’s a letter. If not, I’m going to have to place another call because this — I mean what are they trying to do? (“WHAT A”) What is their plan? I have to make a payment. I don’t want to be late with my payment. I don’t want to get a bad reputation based on their ineptitude or worse. Thievery?

( . . . )

Q: But really all books about Hollywood are evidence. Michael also loaned me A Pound of Flesh: Perilous Tales of How to Produce Movies in Hollywood by Art Linson; and Hello, He Lied and Other Truths From the Hollywood Trenches by Lynda Obst.

( . . . )

Q: While I was making lunch, there was a telephone call. But when I checked my answering machine there was no message. That’s the kind of thing that bothers me.


Q: So put the Gavin Dillard article away. (“OKAY”) So Michael is going to — I told him. Last week I called Variety and Variety still has not called back. I checked my mail today. There is no mail. I’m livid. I don’t want to get a bad name in Hollywood. (“SO I’M”) Going to call on Monday. (“I”) Michael, didn’t you have a — did you call Variety last week after you had a problem? What should I do?

B: Well I don’ t understand. What’s the problem?

Q: They had a placement charge for me when they said that they would take it off. So I called my account rep and she said to fax her a copy. So I faxed her a copy. I called her the next day and she said she received the fax. I haven’t heard from her since and I leave my answering machine on when I’m not here to answer the phone. There have been no messages.

B: Don’t pay until —

Q: The deadline is coming,

B: Well don’t pay — deadlines don’t mean anything. Don’t pay until you get it resolved.

Q: Okay, do they always return your calls right away when you deal with Variety?

B: Not always. (“[SO]M[ETI]MES THEY’RE”) They — you know, it takes a while.

Q: Like last week you had a problem. (“BUT”) Did they call you back finally?

B: Yes.

Q: Was that Variety or The Hollywood Reporter?

B: I don’t — (“REME[MBER]” “THEY’RE” “I” “CALL BUT”) talk to them all, all the time.

Q: So who did you call, though, when they don’t call you back? Like let’s say the editor doesn’t call you back. Who would you call

B: You just keep calling until you get them. (“IF YOU”) The more you call —

Q: Do you call the person above them? Like the publisher?

B: No, if you keep calling them, they’ll just talk to you to get you off their back.

Q: Well I think I want to call the publisher.

B: The publisher of?

Q: Variety.

B: Oh okay. Yeah, well his number’s in there.

Q: So, anyway — so also I’ve been doing a few — I was reading some of my Email yesterday. Here’s one of them. Why don’t you read this one real quick? (“K”) Just a sample. This is one that I — one of my many Email messages — (“T[O] A[RT]”) poor Art Bell. Read it out loud.

Dear Art,

Isn’t there some way you could honestly tell others about your situation? It can only be one shared by thousands of other people. Those who wouldn’t understand are not being honest with themselves. I have found a big part of finding peace and forgiveness is being honest and truthful — about such things as my career in Hollywood that included writing for porno magazines, cover-ups (“Braveheart”), participating in the cult of celebrity, taking more from the world than I gave back — and the list goes on. Sometimes you can’t be understood by everyone yet there is satisfaction in trying to please God.

Thank goodness Spirit opened my eyes and I can share my experiences and what I’ve learned—not that I’ve stopped making mistakes—so that there is one more possibility whereby people can become aware of some of the ways we exploit others through corrupt social structures without really understanding our responsibility. I’ve come to view the Earth as a planet that shows us what we’re capable of doing — “Well that’s what other people do.”

For me, coming to understand life better brought me the belief that the best way to prove appreciation of God is by helping others. With World War III on the horizon as the economic necessity of the corrupt social order, I can only strive and hope my efforts to share proof of God’s love could help bring about alternatives. When recognizing my own mistakes, I’ve found it best to admit them and simply explain how such came to be. If one doubts that God is a God of Love, the proof of this is recognized in God attempting to reveal truth through all-too-human messengers.

Q: Isn’t that good?

B: That’s ni(ce) — yeah. (“I LIKE”)

Q: He never responds, needless to say. So what was I going to — (“SO”) so basically, as I was telling you before, as one of these messengers —

B: What?

Q: I mean — (“I MEAN OKAY” “LET’S”) let’s say — I mean you know my case. What if it had happened to you? What would you do?

B: Which case? (“NO”)

Q: What happened to me — having to communicate my experience of God. Being selected by God — (“TO”) share my (“WHAT”) experience with God.

B: It’s hard — I don’t have — (“I”) I can’t relate. I mean it’s — (“I”) I mean I —

Q: No but put yourself in my shoes since you know what happened. (“WHAT”) I mean what would you — would you do anything differently or would you do exactly what I have done?

B: I — it’s impossible to answer.

Q: It is impossible to answer.

B: Yeah. I mean I can’t even — (“YOU KNOW”) what’s happened to you is so singular.

Q: So what basically — what I realized is that we’re each one iota of God. Dickens, your cat —

B: Everybody. We’re all part. (“GOD”)

Q: Alright, exactly. I mean every person, every thing, every animal. And basically God can shuffle His little deck of iotas to give us each the experience that He thinks is most helpful to us in our evolution. Notice the word love also spells evolve. So basically, based on what your circumstances are in your relationship with God, Who is your true Lover, (“EVERY”) everything else is an aspect or a reflection of God. So let’s say this is the way you’re acting so He’ll bring his iotas Steve and Chandler into your life. (“FOR”) I mean do you understand what I’m saying? Do you believe that?

B: Yeah, that sounds right.

Q: Right. So, anyway, I guess — I don’t know. It just makes me wonder. Like the dates when Art and Ramona called me to be on the show. I just found out — (“AFTER”) you know, his announcement — (“THAT”) that same week his son had been (“NO”) in that oral sex predicament with his — well not his teacher but a substitute teacher in the county. Isn’t that unbelievable? (“SO”) See but I don’t like, though — my major complaint in spirituality is all these spiritual so-called teachers think it’s spiritually aware just to tell people these truths rather than demonstrating them in their own lives. They’re rich. I mean they’re exploitative. I mean they’re all hypocrites. Would you agree with that?

B: I don’t — I haven’t (“REALLY”) really thought about it.

Q: And we’re each —

B: I don’t think — I think if they’re spreading good — (“I MEAN TH”) that’s to be commended. (“BUT IS”)

Q: Talk is easy. (“I MEAN”) Anybody can say — (“WELL I KNOW BUT” “SO”)

B: I know but why — you don’t want — so you think you’re supposed to live a life of abject poverty?

Q: No. (“WHA[T]”) I think that we’re each supposed to live (“EQ”) — well first of all, we don’t have to take more than we give back.

B: Right. (“I HAVE”)

Q: I have everything I need. I don’t live lavishly but, frankly, when you live lavishly, it doesn’t help you. You eat unhealthy things. (“YOU”) You know, you go to stupid — you have stupid experiences. (“PLAY”) Who needs those computer games that kids play? What do you get out of — you don’t get anything out of them. This is what happens in a sick, decadent society where people have too much money.

B: (small laugh)

Q: What? And you’re a reflection of it too. You’re in that industry. That exploitative industry.

B: What industry?

Q: That book you just gave me about the writers who whore themselves off with every rewrite. (“I MEAN THEY”) They’ve lost touch with anything that they want to say. They’re just trying to give the executives what they want.

B: The Hollywood industry — (“IT’S ABOUT”) it’s all about dreams. Dream making.

Q: No, it’s about money making.

B: Well, yeah, that too. But I mean — but if you have to work for a living —

Q: Whose dreams?

B: You get to play with fantasies. (“CREATE”) Create dreams.

Q: Whose dreams end up on the screen?

B: Well what do you mean?

Q: What do I —

B: A lot of people collaborate.

Q: Isn’t it like when you’re dealing with Disney, executives tell you what they want.

B: Well they give their input.

Q: And you write what they tell you (“O”) to.

B: Yeah but a good writer or director — ]

Q: Or they get a different writer.

B: — won’t compromise his artistic vision.

Q: I think you’d better — did you read the book Monster?

B: Monster?

Q: That book you loaned me. I’d think you’d better read that.

B: I read that. I read the whole book. Yeah.

Q: Don’t tell me that there’s any shred of the original artist’s vision that ends up on the screen. (“WELL”)

B: You try.

Q: I mean that’s

B: Well they eventually left the project and somebody else rewrote it.

Q: Well I know that.

B: But then they came back.

Q: Yes but I’m just saying it’s such a vile, evil smorgasbord. I mean these people are being tested and they don’t even realize it. (“HO”) They live their life —

B: Not everybody — (“IS A”) you look at it one way, they look at it another.

Q: That’s exactly right and I’m trying to share my experience because I come from a very spiritual place. And these people are coming from a very materialistic place. They go to Hawaii for vacations. I mean they’re so out of touch —

B: There’s nothing wrong with that. (“TO GO”)

Q: Well I know but when you’re busy in the hedonistic lifestyle, you lose touch with Spirit. With art — true art.

B: They think of themselves as being spiritual.

Q: Of course — (“THAT’S”) my whole point of my new tapes. Anyway, (“SO”) so you had a run-in last week where the editor didn’t return your call and you called who?

B: (no response)

Q: You don’t want to talk. (“OKAY” “WELL”) I mean I’m just saying (“WHAT IS THE”) what is the category of the person that you called? Was it the publisher?

B: (no response)

Q: No comment? Michael, notice that you have the word hell in your name too. Just like Hilly Rose and Art Bell (“ART”) is short for Arthur. Michael Russell. Stop looking at that — you don’t want me to say what it is. Why? I’m the one who picked it up. I think it’s funny reading about WeHo. That’s what West Hollywood is called. (“I GO TO”) No, I admit it. I go to the bookstore there, A Different Light, and get these filthy gay rags because I can’t believe what our world has come to. Sodom and Gomorrah. And people don’t even realize — talk about love like they don’t even know what it is. They think it’s sex. There’s one article that I read somewhere that just talked about ‘Well gee there’s nothing to it.’ Well that’s because they don’t even understand that love is supposed to come before sex. And these Circuit Noize magazines are the worst. I mean it just really —