1999 INVESTIGATIVE JOURNALIST TRANSCRIPT — TAPE #526, SIDE #2


Q: Mark Russell Bell
S: Stephen LoCascio
B: Michael Russell
L: Ellen Russell

Q: So I’m almost home now and I’m going to record my mother. Somehow everyone’s problems and difficulties don’t seem quite as horrendous as those of my mother. It’s hard to explain. She’s very ill now, has to go to dialysis three times a week. She’s this hunched-over little figure who can barely walk but once she gets inside our apartment she becomes a demonic terror that will say and do anything. From negativity.

( . . . )

Q: Hi, Ellen, I’m home. Here’s your mail. I did sort out the problem with Variety. (“AND”) They did admit that they had broken the deal so they are going to give me a price reduction. So did you see the coupons here? What’s that? Is that Medicare?

L: (no response; the TV set can be heard in the background)

( . . . )

S: Hello?

Q: Oh hi, Michael?

S: Oh hi, Mark. How are you?

Q: Oh hi, Steve. (“YOU WAN”)

S: You want Michael?

Q: Uh-huh.

S: Hold on. (calling) Michael, it’s Mark.

B: Hello?

Q: Oh hi. I just got back.

B: How did it go?

Q: Well what made me so upset is right before that (“NO”) Ellen became hysterical. Did you hear her?

B: What?

Q: You heard her gasp when you told her how much it cost? The ad.

B: Yeah.

Q: You know, she’s quiet now but (“YY”) this typically is why she’s so sick. (“IS BE”) You know — with the high blood pressure and everything.

B: Yeah. She always —

Q: Because she becomes — (“AMI”) first of all, she gives me grief (“I THE”) for the least little thing that I do.

B: Right.

Q: So I told her about the ad before. But she didn’t want to talk about it.

B: Right.

Q: So, of course, when you told her how much it cost, you can imagine.

B: She went nutsies.

Q: Well yeah. So thank you very much for that.

B: Well I’m sorry. I thought she knew.

Q: Well no. She did not know.

B: Oh.

Q: But, anyway —

B: But don’t pay it.

Q: Well no, (“I”) I spoke to — (“SAY”)

B: All you’ve got to say is, “Your promised page five. It’s page seven. I’m not paying.”

Q: What? (“AN[D] THEY’LL”)

B: They’ll drop it. (“NO”)

Q: No. (“WELL NO WE”) I spoke to them.

B: What did they say? (“WELL I”)

Q: They’re not — I’m not going to pay the placement fee.

B: Well how much is that?

Q: A thousand dollars.

B: So how much is it altogether?

Q: I don’t know exactly. (“BUT THEY”) They gave me the talent rate.

B: Well that’s what they always say.

Q: Well no. It is true in this case because the rates that I had were much more — (“THAN”) the last time I went. (“SELL” “NO”) It went —

B: Oh I finally heard from Jonathan today.

Q: Oh.

B: And so (“MY”) my friend Ted is going to be here the first week in June.

Q: ‘Teddy.’

B: And so I thought I — what I’d do is I’d have Ted, Jonathan and Cliff —

Q: Cliff Rothman?

B: Yeah. All at the same time.

Q: Okay.

B: And I’ll maybe invite ‘Dozo’ too.

Q: Oh okay.

B: Do you want — so maybe you want to come to that.

Q: I don’t know. I haven’t — I don’t know anyone else to recommend (be invited). I haven’t been speaking to Fiona or Marie or anyone.

B: Well I thought I would just keep it to the — (“TO” “YOU KNOW”) guys. (“YEAH”)

Q: I know. (“I — I” “FOR THAT”)

B: For those people. For Jonathan, Ted and (“YEAH”) Cliff.

Q: But Michael — but you do understand that — I mean how am I going to get publicity for the book? The only thing I could think of was Variety. It reaches the most media people. (“AND”) They do take it seriously. I mean I don’t know if it will get any response or not. I mean what else is there for me to do?

B: I (or “I”) — (“LIKE”)

Q: Unless you have any —

B: You’ve spent a lot of time on it. I think you’ve just got to —

Q: What?

B: At one point, you’ve just got to say, “Enough is enough.”

Q: And do what? (“AND”)

B: What do you mean “do what”? (“VIET”) It’s printed. You know — I mean it’s over.

Q: I have to try to get the message delivered.

B: Why? No one wants to hear it.

Q: Because we have World War III as a possibility. We have —

B: Well, yeah, but that’s never going to change.

Q: — atomic problems. God only knows (“WHAT”) what’s in store. (“YEAH” “I ME”)

B: But I mean you think it’ll make a diff(erence) — no one’s going to take that seriously.

Q: Well every — if everyone started taking responsibility the way I’ve tried in my own life, don’t you think we would live in a very different world?

B: (no response)

Q: I mean if we had all the money (“WE”) —

B: I mean — (“B BU[T] THAT’S”) —

Q: — all the money that’s been spent on the black ops —

B: All you can do is what you can do. We all —

Q: No, but that’s why we’ve gotten into this mess. (“BUT I”)

B: But no one’s going to listen. No one’s going to — no one — when people try to convert people religiously, they don’t listen.

Q: I’m not. I’m trying to (“C” or “SEE”) show people what’s best for themselves.

B: I know but no one ever listens to that kind of preaching.

Q: Their own self-interest is to take care of the environment. (“TAKE”)

B: Well I know but no one ever listens to that.

Q: What’s —

B: They don’t want to hear it.

Q: I know, Michael —

B: You’re wasting your time.

Q: Well why — (“WHAT”) are they happy? (“LIFE”)

B: Preach a ministry. Go to Sunday school and preach if you want to try to prea(ch) —

Q: No but — (“BUT”)

B: That’s — (“ME”)

Q: But I’m just trying to say that there is a more wonderful way — (“OF”) better life available.

B: I know but people don’t want to — they like the life they have. Thank you very much.

Q: Michael, you haven’t even read the book. If you had read the entire book —

B: I have read a lot of it.

Q: I know but I’m just saying you haven’t read it all because if you’d read it all, you might have a different reaction. All I know is that I have found so much love in my life and it’s possible for everyone. (“WW I”)

B: Just appreciate it that you have it. (“DON'[T]”) People aren’t going to be receptive . (“CHA[NGE]”)

Q: Well I want to help others.

B: Well I — (“HELP” “NO”) just live your life and be nice. (“BE ON” “YOUR” or “YOU’RE” “HO”) I think you’re doing what you can do.

Q: No but I — (“YOU CAN”)

B: People don’t — (“NO BU[T]”) if people are(n’t) open to a message, then you can’t shove it down their throats.

Q: No but I mean — God just showed me these various opportunities. For example, getting that money for moving out. I mean that really — (“MEAN”) I mean I knew I had to use it (for) something. My first thought was for myself. Paying off —

B: Right. Well that would —

Q: Paying off the IRS and what-have-you.

B: That would be a sensible thing to do. (“WELL I”)

Q: Well I had to because of the deadlines. Things like that.

B: Right. (“BUT”)

Q: But then I thought, “Well I have to do something to try to promote the book.” I mean it’s too important just — (“JUST TO”)

B: Well it’s important to you but it’s not important to anybody else.

Q: No — but it would be if they just knew about it.

B: Mark —

Q: But no one’s telling them about it.

B: — you’re dreaming.

Q: No, I’m not dreaming. (“DELUDE”)

B: You’re deluded if you think that.

Q: Why am I deluded?

B: Because no one cares.

Q: Okay, would you (or “OKAY WOULD YOU”) — the original Jesus. Would you have said that to the original Jesus?

B: What? (“THAT HE WW”) Yes!

Q: But see? That’s what I’m saying. I’m saying people do care. (“ALL CHRIS” “MARK YOU’RE ABLE”) All the churches in the world. (“R”)

B: Do you know how many people think — do you know how many people think they’re Jesus in L.A. alone?

Q: But that’s what I’m saying — I’m saying everyone is Jesus.

B: I know. (“S[O]” “VERY” “THAT WHICH”) Makes it even more silly.

Q: No, I mean everyone is Jesus and everyone is the antichrist.

B: But no one care(s) — Mark.

Q: It’s a metaphor.

B: Everybody — there are a million nuts out there preaching their gospel. No one cares.

Q: Yes but I have evidence.

B: They just — they believe what they — everybody believes what they want to believe.

Q: But I can show proof. Evidence.

B: They don’t care.

Q: Well why don’t they care?

B: Because — (“THEY” “WAN[T T]O”) they don’t care. It’s not one of their concerns. (“WHAT ARE”)

Q: What are their concerns?

B: Okay, if you saw some — somebody said to you, “I’m sweet mother Mary and I want you to know it.” What would you say to them? “Leave me alone.”

Q: Well I did hear a story about two people who thought they were the reincarnation — (“MARY”)

B: Well exactly. No —

Q: — fighting at a picnic or something.

B: — people don’t listen and they don’t care. And they certainly don’t believe it. And (when) they say, “I have proof.” They run faster.

Q: Well I think what happens is you get a message and you feel like you’re somehow Spiritually empowered. (“AND SO”) You can — I can see why people would think that they were Mary or Jesus or whatever.

B: Well exactly.

Q: In my case, it turned out that I’m Bel-Marduk which is sort of the basis for —

B: I know but, Mark, (“NO ONE”) no one cares.

Q: — other resurrection metaphors. (“NO ONE HH”)

B: Has anyone ever shown any iota of interest at all when you told them?

Q: Yes, of course.

B: Who?

Q: What do you mean —

B: I mean no one cares. (“YEAH I KNOW”)

Q: A few people have.

B: Enough to buy the book?

Q: Well —

B: No.

Q: — no one — the metaphysical distributors won’t distribute it.

B: Exactly.

Q: The bookstores won’t sell it.

B: Right.

Q: The media won’t review it.

B: Right.

Q: They won’t even cover it.

B: Exactly. You’re wasting your time. (“IS PP”) You know, it’s sad to watch. (“BUT I”)

Q: But I want other people to have the same kind of redemption.

B: Well it’s not going to happen. No one cares. You’re wasting your money.

Q: Like in the —

B: You’re wasting your time.

Q: It’s like in that old Jackson family song —

B: Mark.

Q: I want to bring — we want to bring redemption back.

B: Well, Mark, do it in ways where people will appreciate it.

Q: Like what?

B: Just be — just live your life and be as — be nice to people.

Q: I know. You’d probably prefer me to go on — what’s that — oh. The (Howard) Stern show in my costume.

B: Mark please. (“I DON’T” “YOU KNOW”) Do what you want to do. It’s your life. (“NOW”) But I — I’m just telling you you’re wasting your time.

Q: Okay but —

B: And now you’re wasting your money.

Q: But, Michael, people — see, Michael, but like when that $20,000 came through, I mean I knew it was —

B: Well why — but this was a little —

Q: I knew that was part —

B: — this was going to be a little security nest egg (“SO YOU”) —

Q: Ohh —

B: — so you wouldn’t be driven crazy with bills and everything.

Q: — there’s no point to horde money away (“WHEN”) when you have an opportunity. I knew that this was meant —

B: Well, Mark, I’m telling you the opportunity was — you’re wasting your money.

Q: But, see, people don’t —

B: Nobody cares. No one’s going to buy the book.

Q: But I’m just saying what people —

B: If they go to the website, they’ll read a few words and then they’ll turn it off.

Q: But when these opportunities become available to someone, people don’t understand that they are Divine in nature. Do you understand that they are Divine in nature? That they are tests in a way? And we can fail the test or pass the test.

B: I don’t think I understand it the way you do.

Q: Well you don’t want to understand.

B: I jut try to live my life the best I can —

Q: And do —

B: — and try to be nice to others.

Q: You try to get out the most joy of every day.

B: Right. Exactly. And see the beauty where it lies.

Q: You want to take —

B: And try to do as much good as I can.

Q: — take as much for yourself. That’s what I’m hearing.

B: Well no. I don’t try — (“BUT NOT”) not to the distress of others. I don’t hurt anyone or take from other people.

Q: As I’ve said before, it’s not a sin to eat but it is a sin to feast when others have none. Throughout the world, there are many people who are just barely surviving.

B: That’s always going to be the case.

Q: No, it’s not.

B: There are always going to be starving people.

Q: If enough people become Socialists and start working —

B: Well I — it’s not — I mean I’m sorry, I’m too selfish to do that.

Q: I’m probably the biggest person for a one world order that there is because that’s the way it should be. (“WELL THEN DO”)

B: Then do volunteer work. That would be more better — your time better spent.

Q: I have done volunteer work in the past.

B: Well I know but — you know —

Q: I’ve got to make a living. (“THAT'”)

B: Your time is better spent that (way) then throwing money into ads in Variety. (“NO” “WELL I”)

Q: No, I’m adding to my website and what-have-you. (“WELL” “BUT JUST” “I — I”)

B: Don’t throw your money away.

Q: But you’ve seen some of the phenomena.

B: Don’t tell people who don’t want to hear. (“ME” “NO” “BUT”)

Q: There are people that — I’m trying to reach the people who want to hear.

B: Well they don’t, though. They don’t.

Q: No one in my immediate company seems to want to hear. I mean my family and my friends.

B: Well, Mark, no one does, Mark. No one believes that you’re Bel-Marduk and if they — even if they thought you were, they wouldn’t care.

Q: Well why don’t they with all the evidence? (“WELL IT’S LIKE”)

B: Do you think Shirley MacLaine when she wrote her book and said that she’s reincarnated blah blah blah — do you think anybody listened to her?

Q: Well she made a lot of money off of it. (“BEES”)

B: At least — because she was an actress. And she threw in sex and titillation as well. (“INNOCEN”) Her affairs.

Q: I know. (“BUT AH”)

B: It was a tell-all. You know.

Q: Well I don’t know what to say. I think that —

B: If you were an actor — if you were Tom Cruise, people might be interested to hear about it.

Q: Well I don’t know what to say. (“YOU’RE WA[STING]”)

B: You’re just doomed to one disappointment after another. (“BUT”)

Q: But I have to do this.

B: You’re going to waste your money.

Q: I feel — (“I FEEL LIKE I”)

B: Then you’ll be scrambling to make ends meet again.

Q: Well —

B: And you’re going to be miserable.

Q: — well yeah but Michael I —

B: For no reason.

Q: It would have been a sin against God not to have tried. At least tried.

B: Well you’ve tried. (“HOW MANY”) You’ve tried for years.

Q: Well I’m not going to take out any more ads.

B: Give it a break.

Q: I mean only one — (“ON MY”) now I’ve done it. I mean —

B: You’ve taken ads out before.

Q: I know. (“WW”)

B: And it didn’t do any good then.

Q: No, but they were small — no, I took out one small ad in Variety.

B: Right. Well this — the big ad in Variety

Q: Yeah.

B: — won’t make any — (“WON’T” “YOU”) you wasted your money. It won’t make one — you won’t get one interview request. You won’t sell one more book. And I doubt — (“PEOPLE WILL EVEN”) a few people will probably just go to the Internet and then turn off after a few seconds.

Q: I don’t know why people can’t be more supportive of me.

B: Because they want you — they don’t want you. You’re going to just frustrate yourself And you’re doomed to disaster. You’re just setting yourself up for one disappointment after another.

Q: But don’t you believe — isn’t — (“ISN’T”) isn’t the welfare for all mankind more important than my own welfare?

B: What do you mean?

Q: The attempt that I’m making to help others is much more important than what happens to me. I mean I’m not one of those that thinks (“WHAT’S”) that myself is more important than everyone else.

B: But Mark — (“WH”) so what are you — I don’t know what you’re — (“JOHN” or “JON”) know what that means.

Q: I’m just saying I have to try, at least, to deliver my message.

B: But you tried. Alright, you’ve tried. You tried and tried.

Q: And if God shows me another way to try, then I’ll try again. (“BU[T]” “AHM ME”) Obviously, my cash is very limited. (“SO I’M”) I’m being very careful with my money. But —

B: Well I don’t think careful — (“THROWI”) throwing $4,000 onto an ad is careful.

Q: It is careful because it’s the one thing I could do.

B: Trust me. It’s not going to help you in any way. (“WELL IT HAS”)

Q: I have to try.

B: Why?

Q: Mike, please.

B: You tried.

Q: Now you’re sounding like Ellen.

B: When are you going to give it up?

Q: Her generation.

B: Well Mark — (“BECA” “I — I”)

Q: I’m not —

B: I mean I had a clarity of vision that —

Q: Michael, do you think any — (“YOU”)

B: — you can’t see (“ANY”) for the trees.

Q: Michael, any —

B: Because you’re too caught up in this whole thing.

Q: I mean would Joan of Arc have stopped because someone told her to?

B: (sighs)

Q: Even though I think Spirit did try to (tell her to stop) —

B: Well, Mark, I think you’ve got to do what you’ve got to do. (“I MEAN”)

Q: If God told me a message, ‘I want you to stop and I want you to go away to a monastery,” I’d be more than happy to go and live in a monastery. More than happy. I don’t want to get any kind of attention for myself. I just want people —

B: Mark . . . your life — (“MAKE IT”) but I just see that it’s doomed to frustration. (“NOT”)

Q: I’m never — I don’t feel frustrated in the least because what I’m attempting to do is so important. I don’t feel any frustration whatsoever. Just with Ellen and you because you aren’t more supportive and you don’t see — (“WELL NO”) I mean you don’t — (“SEE”)

B: Not when I — you complain about money and you move out of a nice apartment.

Q: No. (“EL”)

B: You know — (“I — I”)

Q: I — I’m (“WORK”) living in a nice apartment now.

B: I know but — (“THAT”) but you’re the one who’s always saying. ‘It’s miserable that I make — (“TO”) to work (“AND THEN N[OT]”) and not have any money and not’ (“NO”) blah blah blah. And then — you know —

Q: No.

B: — you have some money and then it’s instantly gone for no reason.

Q: Michael, I’m careful with money. It’s not “gone for no reason.” I’m just trying to do — (“I’M”) each step of the way, I’m trying to do what seems to make the most sense. I mean I’m (“LATE”) ready to go back to work. There is — I’m registered with the nearby temp agency.

B: I know.

Q: You know. And all — once Ellen gets —

B: Listen, it’s your money. You can do what you want to do. (“BUT” “WELL”)

Q: Okay now I have to go talk to Ellen. At least, she’s not hysterical any more.

B: Okay.

Q: Okay — (“SO”)

B: Good luck.

Q: What are you doing tonight? (“TAKIN”)

B: You know, taking it easy.

Q: No more movies.

B: Of course — I like movies.

Q: You’re not going to go see those movies or watch TV.

B: Of course I am.

Q: No “Phantom Menace” for you. (“LOVE”)

B: Why not? What’s the big deal? You’re fighting a losing battle.

Q: Well all I can say is I don’t see God as a phantom menace. Okay, bye.

B: Bye.

(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AS I RETURN TO THE LIVING ROOM, ELLEN REMAINS IN BED WITH THE TV ON AS SHE DOES ALL DAY AND NIGHT EXCEPT FOR BRIEF INTERVALS WHEN SHE PREPARES HER MEALS OR GOES TO THE BATHROOM.)

Q: So I called Michael back and we had a long discussion about this whole ad thing. (sighs) I’m so tired of fighting with everyone. I wish people would just trust me. (“THAT I KNOW” “LIKE”) Like when you read me that horoscope of the week. I really do believe in myself and I am careful with money. I mean I would not do something that I thought was totally foolish. So, anyway, I’ve done it and now — I’m glad you’re being reasonable now. We won’t discuss it anymore but you know you can trust me, can’t you?

L: I’m moving out.

Q: You’re moving out?

L: Yes.

Q: Why?

L: As soon as that place is available.

Q: What place?

L: That Michael’s finding —

Q: Did you call Michael back?

L: Yes.

Q: Why are you moving out? Because I decided to buy an ad in the Daily Variety?

L: How much did it cost?

Q: I don’t know the exact cost.

L: How much?

Q: Well probably what Michael told you is probably a fair estimate. It will be reduced somewhat because I got the cheap talent rate. (“NO”) But Ellen I mean I have plenty of money. I wanted to do something for the book.

L: You have plenty of money?

Q: Yes.

L: You spent over $40,000 on the book already. Close to $50,000. And you’re spending more when you should keep it — (“N”) why talk about it?

Q: Ellen —

L: Just forget it. You do what you want.

Q: I know but (“WHY”) why does that make you so upset? I don’t understand.

L: Mark, it’s not worth talking about. I mean —

Q: But every little thing that I do you find fault with.

L: Mark —

Q: That’s all “worth talking about.” So why isn’t this worth talking about?

L: Throw it away. Throw the money away. I don’t care.

Q: It wasn’t — I didn’t throw the money away. I happen to believe in my book and I happen to believe —

L: Well that’s great. (“AH MY”) Wonderful. I believe in so many things but I don’t go out and spend money on them when I don’t have it.

Q: Ellen, I have — it would have been a bigger sin not to spend the money. (“IN”)

L: Mark, I don’t want to talk stupid. I mean I’m sick of it. And then when you get physical —

Q: What?

L: A little too much.

Q: What are you talking about? Ellen, I think you better move out tonight. If you’re going to give me that kind of bullshit. How dare you? You wouldn’t even be alive anymore — (“WHA[T] ABO[UT]”) why don’t you ever appreciate me?

L: When you start pushing and shoving people around.

Q: I didn’t push or shove you. So now — see, this is what you watch on TV all day. Montel Williams and —

L: Mark . . .

Q: — abuse and so now you’re accusing me of abuse.

L: Come on.

Q: No, really. I mean if I were you —

L: Please.

Q: What do you mean “please”? (“NO THAT’S” “WH YOU” “CAN YOU IMA”) Television is the most evil, sinful force and that’s all you watch all day. It fills your head with crap.

L: I spend fifty cents a day.

Q: You know I didn’t push or shove you. What’s wrong with you? Are you ill? Well I know you’re ill. You love being a victim, don’t you? And you’ve only victimized yourself. No, I’m curious. I just want an explanation.

L: Go read your book.

Q: What book?

L: Your book. Your magic book.

Q: Thank God you’re moving.

( . . . )

Q: Ellen, what did you say?

L: I said it won’t be for a while because the waiting list but I’m —

Q: Ellen —

L: Soon as there’s one available, I’m going.

Q: See, that’s what you do.

L: I’ve tried to look in here.

Q: You remind me of the character in that comic — that “Momma” comic strip. I mean either you do it or you don’t. You don’t talk about it and make someone’s life miserable. You just do it. You do things.

L: (I’m not going to) cut off my nose to spite my face.

Q: Ellen, what are you talking about now?

L: When I find a nice place — (“MON”) as soon as it’s available, Mark, I’m leaving.

Q: Well I know but I’m just saying —

L: But I’m not moving tonight.

Q: Well of course not. But can’t you at least be polite until the time when you do move? I bet you expect me to take you to dialysis tomorrow. You’ll probably give me grief all the way over there too, won’t you?

L: You don’t have to take me.

Q: Ellen. (“PLEASE”) I don’t mind taking you. I just wish you would appreciate me once in a while and give me some credit for knowing what I’m doing when I know what I’m doing.

L: What profit have you seen in your book?

Q: I’ve seen a lot of profit. I have a website (“THAT”) over a hundred people go to a week.

L: How many books have you sold?

Q: It’s very small. Not very many but that’s because people are resistant to new ideas.

L: People buy books every day.

Q: Yes. (“BUT”) People buy books —

L: I don’t want — (“I”)

Q: — fantasy books. And this is reality.

L: (huffs)

Q: Ellen, please.

L: (It’s) not even a book.

Q: Ellen, you never wanted — you don’t want to believe in it.

L: Mark, I don’t want to talk about it.

Q: I know.

L: Mark, it’s not that I don’t want to believe in it. It’s — have your dream, Mark. I mean go ahead. I mean I don’t care.

Q: Then why does that make you miserable? Why does that make you rage and cry and threaten abuse?

L: You’ve done your book. You’ve got your book. It’s published. Why do you care if it sells or not? You did it for yourself.

Q: I’m promoting the book. I didn’t do it for myself. I did it for everyone else.

L: Mark, we don’t want it.

Q: Well I know. (“BUT” “THANK”) I have to try to do this for God.

L: Thank you. God . . .

Q: I think that love is a verb and not a noun. And if God asks someone for proof of love, He wants a verb. He doesn’t want a noun. Do you understand that?

L: If you want to show love, you don’t show it by promoting a stupid book that isn’t even a book. (“WELL IT”)

Q: It’s funny that you should say that because there’s another book with the same title of mine that’s number one on the bestseller list. By John Grisham. (“QUEEN”)

L: No rhyme or reason. That’s equating a million dollar bill to a dollar bill.

Q: Well it’s the same title as my book.

L: So what? What’s that mean? Who cares? What’s it mean? It doesn’t mean a thing. There’s a Mark Russell on television who’s a political analyst and you’re Mark Russell. What difference does it make?

Q: No, Ellen.

L: You both have the same name.

Q: No. (“I”)

L: Does that mean that one’s successful and one’s a dingbat?

Q: Ellen, my name is Mark Gordon Russell.

L: Bell.

Q: My pseudonym is Mark Russell Bell. (“WELL” “CARE”)

L: I don’t care, Mark. I don’t want to talk about it. Throw your money away. Throw it. When it’s gone, it’s gone.

Q: I didn’t throw my money away.

L: Throw it.

Q: I said I’m going to spend an amount of money for the book and the rest I’m going to use to pay off some of my debt. (“IT’S NOT THAT IT”) I don’t want to — it’s not that I don’t want to work. (“IT’S NOT THAT”) I mean I had to do that. Do you understand I had to do that?

L: Of course, I don’t understand.

Q: Of course not.

L: No. Name me one person who would understand logic like that.

Q: Ellen, it’s very logical.

L: There’s not one person —

Q: It’s logical. It’s totally logical.

L: There isn’t one person in the world — (“THAT”) logic like that.

Q: Ellen, you know I’m careful with money. (“I’M I O”)

L: Mark, you are —

Q: Ellen —

L: You throw money away. (“YOU”) You might as well . . .

Q: Not any more, I haven’t. Not recently I haven’t.

L: Oh please.

Q: That’s not true at all. Anyway, (“WELL OKAY”) Well I’m glad you’re at least being polite about this.

L: No — well fine.

Q: Because there’s only so much hysteria that I can take.

L: Mark, I don’t care. (“I”) Frankly, I don’t care.

Q: You do care. Right now your face —

L: I don’t care.

Q: You look like — (“YOU”) you look hysterical. I mean physically that takes its toll.

L: (weeping) Well it’s hard to see your son being such a — it’s just tough.

Q: Ellen, I wrote you a book that explains it all.

L: Tough to see what’s happened.

Q: What’s happened? I mean my book makes it very plain. If anyone would take the time to read the entire book, they wouldn’t feel so upset.

L: The book is written by a fool.

Q: Well most books are.

L: Well at least those written by those fools — some of them sell.

Q: Is that all that it’s about is making money? Is that all life is — is making money?

L: It’s not (about) throwing money away.

Q: Who’s throwing money away?

L: Mark, you won’t have any money pretty soon. Good!

Q: Ellen —

L: Then you won’t be throwing it away. I can’t wait.

Q: I just — I’m trying to understand you. You understand? I’m just trying to understand you.

L: Don’t bother. You can never —

Q: It’s something that’s alien to me.

L: Mark, you never will. Right now —

Q: I know you were born during the Depression.

L: You need help so bad and —

Q: Well some people would say that you need help.

L: Well fine.

Q: At least I can take care of myself.

L: Really?

Q: What do you mean “Really?” I mean I don’t know why you’re not appreciative of me.

L: You’d be on the doorstep — out on the curb. And you know it and I know it.

Q: Ellen, (“MEAN” “WI[T]”) because you went (to live with me) to (“HELP) pay the rent.

L: That’s right.

Q: Ellen — but don’t you understand that this was also good for you?

L: Why?

Q: What do you mean “Why?” You’d be dead — if not for me helping you with the groceries and everything, you’d be dead by now.

L: I wouldn’t have even been sick if I hadn’t had to move and give up everything I had.

Q: You’d be dead now.

L: Oh bull.

Q: Who did the shopping for you every week in and week out every other week? Who — (“DON’T YOU”) you just see what you want to see to live your own little tragedy.

L: I thank you for — that was wonderful of you. Thank you. (“BUT I DIDN’T G[ET]”)

Q: I don’t understand why you won’t respect or appreciate when someone does anything for you and you only see the negative side. That’s what I would like to understand. And why does it always have to come down to money? I don’t understand that either. It’s the same with my father, Paul. It’s like when I wouldn’t take the $5,000 check that time he became demonic.

L: $500.

Q: Oh $500. Right. I mean I’m just saying — I mean what is it? I guess it’s because you were born during the Depression.

L: It’s because I hate waste.

Q: It wasn’t a — (“BUT SEE”) if you had read my book, you would see that it’s not a waste.

L: I read your book.

Q: It’s not a waste.

L: It’s a waste.

Q: It’s not a waste.

L: Well that’s your opinion.

Q: Okay. Well I guess that says it all.

L: If I could find one other person that would agree —

Q: Agree what?

L: That it wasn’t — that that book isn’t the biggest pile of paper shit that’s ever been printed. (“BUT”)

Q: People have been saying that about —

L: It’s not a book. (“BUT DO”)

Q: Anyone who ever presents something that isn’t like everything else — this is always the response they get.

L: You’ve done it. Now you know. So stop promoting it. Stop wasting your money. Stop throwing —

Q: Well I’m not going to — I mean I only needed to take out one ad. I don’t have to take out an ad every week.

L: Why did you take out an ad?

Q: I said to myself —

L: If you have your website? If you’ve already publicized it before?

Q: Because nobody knows that the website exists.

L: Well then why have a website?

Q: Ellen, you’re saying why does anyone try to do anything at all in the world.

L: Why? No, you’ve done it. You’ve written your book.

Q: I — no. I’m trying —

L: You published your book.

Q: I’m trying to help others to improve their lives. (“TO KNOW THAT”)

L: Your book?

Q: Yes, exactly.

L: That’s like me shitting in a bag and saying, “I’m going to go out and share this with everybody. I’m going to improve their life because they’ll have some of Ellen’s shit to take home and put under their pillow.”

Q: Ellen —

L: “I’m going to improve their life.”

Q: It’s like today when you were watching that — the medium on “Leeza.”

L: I didn’t say I’m watching the medium — you were watching the medium. (“BUT NO”)

Q: No but I’m just saying — No, I wasn’t — you were watching because I don’t watch TV.

L: Oh now you don’t watch TV. I didn’t want to watch it. I wanted to watch channel five.

Q: Well you were watching it and that’s how I noticed it was on.

L: I was not watching.

Q: But I’m just saying — (“NOT” “ALL”) not all of it is just —

L: I don’t want to talk about it.

Q: Not all of it is a lie and a con. (“NO” “BUT I MEAN” “BUT WHAT I”) I did watch a little bit of it and it was realistic.

L: Go into your fantasy. Leave me out of it. (“WELL WW” “YOU’RE”)

Q: But we’re all in our own fantasy. (“THAT’S WHAT I’M”) Don’t you understand that? I don’t watch TV.

L: At least I share my fantasy with other human beings. (“ME”)

Q: People on TV?

L: Well whatever. There are other people out in the world other than people on TV.

Q: I know that but you don’t really share —

L: Everybody that knows you Mark knows that you throw your money away. You waste everything. And I . . .

Q: That’s not true.

L: . . . and I mean they think I’m a fool too for putting up with it. I’m not anymore.

Q: Ellen — I don’t even understand. So you’re saying that it’s a reflection on you?

L: . . . I’m through talking.

Q: Well that’s a first.

( . . . )

(“BUT”)

Q: It just shows that there are exceptions to every rule because, you know, that Rosemary Altea who was on “Leeza” — I mean I was — I found that convincing just in an hour’s time. I don’t think that was phony. (“NO”) Do you think that was phony?

L: What difference does it make?

Q: That’s exactly right. What difference does it make? (“BU”) But if you (“BECOME” “IF YOU”) become — if you know about your prejudices, it can help you open up to Spiritual messages. Yes, I found Rosemary —

L: How stupid you sound.

Q: Ellen, see that — you’re closed to it. That’s — people are closed to it.

L: Obviously, I’m not the only one.

Q: No, obviously you’re not.

L: I don’t know anybody who knows you, Mark, who says that you are alright.

Q: What do you mean “alright”? (“IN WHAT WAY” “I’M [T]HERE”) Everyone thinks I’m alright.

L: You’re mental.

Q: I’m not “mental.”

L: Everybody who knows you says you’re mental.

Q: That’s not true.

L: And I’m not putting up with it.

Q: Nobody says that.

L: Michael says you (“NEE”) desperately need help. Andy says you desperately need some help quickly. Steve says you’re more cuckoo than anybody he’s ever seen.

Q: When did they tell you that? When you were over there at their house?

L: Fiona knows that you’re on the edge.

Q: Well people would think she’s on the edge.

L: James . . .

Q: He’s off at Cannes.

L: Well it doesn’t make any difference. He thinks you’re — it doesn’t make any difference, Mark. If you’re happy living this way, go ahead. Frankly (“WELL I JUST”) nobody cares any more.

Q: I like being saved.

L: Good.

Q: And I want others to be saved too.

L: Go ahead. If that makes you happy, be happy.

Q: Okay. (“WELL”) I’m going to go work on my book and you go and you continue watching Montel Williams. We’ll see who’s happier. (my computer goes on)