TELEPHONE INTERVIEW / JOURNAL — TAPE #23, SIDE #2
Q: Mark Russell Bell H: Helen Langdon (reporter at the Coalgate Record-Register)
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: AS THIS SIDE BEGINS, THE UNATTRIBUTED SOUND OF A HEARTBEAT CONTINUES TO BE HEARD, OVERLAPPING.)
Q: Okay. So now tell me what you were saying.
H: Jesus will be coming back and he will reign again. And those that believe in him will come back with him and reign with him. At that time the Devil will be cast into the lake of fire. He will be bound for a thousand years. And at the end of this thousand years he will be turned loose to reign for a short period of time again. And those that are kind of mid-riders —
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: UNATTRIBUTED HEARTBEAT SOUND CONCLUDES ON THE TAPE HERE.)
H: — there’ll be some that will fall away and some that won’t. And then when he leaves the next time — when the Lord gets rid of him the next time, he’ll be in the lake of fire and he’ll never be heard of again. (“BUT — BUT CAN’T”)
Q: So you don’t interpret this on a metaphorical level. You think this is literally going to happen.
H: Yes, I do. I believe it very much. If you’ll write — read Revelation, you will see that every book of the Bible has been fulfilled. We’re living in the last days now. (“RIGHT”)
Q: But isn’t the archangel Michael supposed to do battle with Satan?
H: There will be battle and there’s a daily battle. As far as that goes.
Q: Oh, I’m sure of that. (“CORRECT”)
H: And this is going to be the final battle. This will be the tribulation.
Q: Do you think Michael, the family’s Entity, could be Satan?
H: I don’t think he’s Satan, though.
Q: You don’t. Just a demon?
H: No, I think he is demonic. The Bible speaks of all the demons that work for Satan. There are many, many, many demons. Do you remember in the Bible where the man that was possessed — (“YEAH”)
H: — was Legion — which is many, many (“INSURANCE AGENT”) Devils, many Satans or whatever you want to say. Those demons were cast into a herd of swine. Remember that? They’re still out there.
Q: Well, I don’t know —
H: They’re still out there. There are many, many demons still out there that work —
Q: Yeah. (“WELL WELL”)
H: — just as well as you do because you see angels.
Q: The book I recommended to you deals with that as well — Jesus: A Revolutionary Biography by John Dominic Crossan. Anyway, read that and call me if you would like to discuss it or give me any updates.
( . . . )
Q: (speaking into tape recorder) It’s Saturday. I woke up at around 5:45 a.m. and Jonathan, my attorney, came by last night to see my new computer. He helped me connect the loudspeakers because he’s a ‘techie’ and then something unusual happened. He was using the voice controls and—for some reason, maybe because the stereo was on but maybe not—the game entitled Descent came on. And I joked, “Well, I’m glad you’re playing and not me.” Anyway, I didn’t get a lot of phone calls yesterday. I guess everyone (“NO”) sort of freaked about the show. Like Michael, my brother, didn’t call and he usually calls from his car phone or something. I called Marie even and she didn’t even watch the show which was rather surprising. I wonder if Fiona did.
(TRANSCRIBER’S NOTE: FIONA DIDN’T WATCH OR TAPE THE PROGRAM EITHER SO I EVENTUALLY LOANED HER AND MARIE THE CASSETTE.)
Q: Anyway, the only calls I received was from High-Q 30 Min. Photo & Studio on Hyperion, where I took my photos of the Ark of the Covenant to send to Sotheby’s which I plan on doing today. I even showed them the photos of the Ark and told them a little bit about it. Wouldn’t you? And Jonathan called me. Oh — and Michael did something very sweet last night. (“I AM”) When I got into bed I realized He had made my bed so I think that’s a good answer to anyone who would suggest Him to be a demon. I mean how many demons do you know that make people’s beds? So, anyway, I guess in all honesty I have to mention one other anecdote real quick. When I left my hypnotherapy session, I was sexually approached by somebody — a man running down the street with his shirt off and everything. (“BUT HE LOOKED VERY GOOD”) He sort of gave me a look. I wasn’t interested, obviously. I mean I don’t know him or — I don’t know what — I don’t know — you know — I don’t know anything. But I was wondering could Michael be working through this guy’s subconscious mind and offering him as a sex partner to me? It’s an interesting thought. Like when I was talking to the journalist earlier and she said Jesus “was sent here to see what the temptations of man were.” So that incident would tie-in with that, I guess, but (“SOME”) that’s not something I’m really prepared to do. I mean I still think — I don’t know — love is so important to me and I don’t want to cheat on — it’s not even the right word. I don’t even know how to explain it. I think that explains it. So, anyway, when the game came on. Descent. And we played a little bit of it. I chose the name Bel for the character. I began thinking of various myths and legends and how they all fit in so neatly with that earliest story of Bel-Marduk so I thought I would just read a few brief passages from some of the books I happen to have. The first one I’ll start with is Mythology, a Chambers encyclopedic guide edited by Fernand Comte. It explains basically Marduk the Babylonian god is known as ‘the sovereign.’ “The child of a new generation of gods, Marduk became ruler of the universe at the same time as he became its champion.” I think Zecharia Sitchin explains it better than this does so I’ll check Ra real quick and see if there’s anything interesting there. Whoops. I just noticed Saturn, the Roman god, (“NO”) and that’s sort of interesting. Remember that awful painting of “the awful Saturn devouring his children to safeguard his power”? That’s a very scary thought and I see here — it mentions Cronos who “was the son of Uranus (Heaven) and of Gaea (Earth), and the brother of the Uranian Cyclopes and of the Hecatonchires. Gaea, exhausted by the numerous pregnancies inflicted upon her by her husband, requested her children to free her from this burden. All of them declined to accept responsibility, except her youngest, Cronos. He took the sickle given to him by his mother, caught his father unawares and cut off his testicles. He then threw them into the sea, deposed Uranus and ascended the throne. He had as his wife his sister, Rhea, and was the father of Hestia, Demeter, Hera, Hades, Poseidon and Zeus. He, in turn, was to be dethroned by Zeus.” Gee, all these (“YOU KNOW”) gods act sort of like all the characters in all those Shakespeare plays. But — it says “Very little is known about Saturn” and “He has been likened to Cronos, the father of Jupiter (Zeus). He was supposed to have ousted his father from the throne and to have been likewise ousted by his own son. . . . Strangely, the planet Saturn, in contrast to the god Saturn, represented evil for astrologers. But perhaps this seeming contradiction points in actual fact to a similarity. If Saturn symbolized uprootings and partings, the trials of life and its necessary sacrifices, it was because he was entrusted with the task of freeing man from the limitations of his animal nature, from his instincts and his passions, and also from the constraints of his social life. Saturn symbolized freedom.” I have another book here entitled Myths and Modern Man, a paperback that (“AND”) provides “a new look at ancient myths.” It was written by Barbara Stanford with Gene Stanford. Let me quick look up — (“A MEMBER”) one of the things that really intrigued me — (“WAS JUST”) the way they wrote about Theseus. I won’t repeat the whole story but they have a wonderful picture of the maze and the Minotaur. It says underneath the picture, “What is the monster, half man, half beast that waits to destroy the hero? Is it perhaps the animal within his own nature?” A few pages later, it says, “What is the monster, half man, half beast, which irresistibly draws each of us into his presence where we behold him with a mixture of delight and horror?” And there’s all kinds of interesting accounts in this book. For example, when Perseus is discussed it says, “Every man’s birth is a miracle. The child set adrift or abandoned is a familiar theme in mythology. Moses, Cyrus the Great, Oedipus, King Arthur, Perseus, Theseus and Krishna were all sent away as infants and grew up in a strange land. (“NO”) Are these myths an attempt to invent a kingly lineage for a man who deserves it?” (“NO”) “Or do they reflect the universal wish that each of us may someday lift the stone and be proclaimed the child of a king?” Hmmm — mmmm. And let’s see. I’m just seeing if anything will catch my eye. I guess Odysseus would be interesting to read but (“YOU KNOW”) not at the moment. Anyway, let me put this down and go to Zecharia Sitchin’s books. Of course, I mentioned that interesting reference to Bel-Marduk in The Wars of Gods and Men. So that book’s a very full account which really helps to find comparisons between Bel-Marduk and all of the other resurrection stories throughout history. But let me go to his second book in his popular series, The Stairway to Heaven. It seems like in all of his books whenever Marduk is mentioned there are all kinds of interesting things. I see here one of the mentions of Marduk is on page 113. I’ll just look at the top of page 112 and see what hits my eye. It says:
The days before the Deluge were the days when “The Nefilim were upon the Earth — the Mighty Ones, the People of the Rocketships.”
In the words of the Sumerian King Lists, “the Deluge has swept over” 120 shars—120 orbits of 3,600 years each—after the first landing on Earth. This places the Deluge at about 13,000 years ago. It is exactly the time when the last ice age ended abruptly, when agriculture began. It was followed 3,600 years later by the New Stone Age (as scholars call it), the age of pottery. Then 3,600 years later, civilization all at once blossomed out — in the ‘plain between the rivers,’ in Shumer.
“And the whole Earth was of one language and of one kind of things,” the Book of Genesis says; but soon after the people had established themselves in the Land of Shin’ar (Sumer), and built dwellings of fired clay bricks, they conspired to “build a city, and a Tower the top of which can reach unto Heaven.”
The Sumerian texts from which this biblical tale was extracted have not yet been found; but we do come across allusions to the event in various Sumerian tales. What emerges is an apparent effort on the part of Ea to enlist Mankind in gaining control over the space facilities of the Nefilim — one more incident in the continuing feud between Ea and Enlil, which by then had spilled over to their offspring. As a result of the incident, the Bible tells us, the Lord and his unnamed colleagues decided to disperse Mankind and “confuse” its languages — give it diverse and separate civilizations.
The deliberations of the gods in the era following the Deluge are mentioned in various Sumerian texts. The one called the Epic of Etana states:
The Great Anunnaki who decree the fate sat exchanging their counsels regarding the Earth. They who created the four regions, who set up the settlements, who oversaw the land, were too lofty for mankind.
The decision to establish on Earth four Regions was thus coupled with a decision to install intermediaries (priest-kings) between the gods and Mankind; so “kingship was again lowered to Earth from Heaven.”
. . . Ea too divided the Second Region, Africa, among his sons. It is known that a son named NER.GAL lorded over the southernmost parts of Africa. A son named GI.BAL learned from his father the arts of mining and metallurgy, and took over control of the African gold mines. A third son—Ea’s favorite—was named by him after the home planet MARDUK, and was taught by Ea all knowledge of sciences and astronomy. (Circa 2000 B.C., Marduk usurped the Lordship of Earth and was declared Supreme God of Babylon and of “the Four Quarters of the Earth.”) And, as we have seen, a son whose Egyptian name was Ra presided over the core civilization of this Region, the civilization of the Nile Valley.
Q: Let me go to the first book, The 12th Planet and go to one of the early mentions of Marduk on page 105. It talks about Zu. It says:
Zu, then was a god — one of the gods who had reason to scheme at usurpation of the Enlilship; a god whom Ninurta, as the legitimate successor, had every reason to fight.
“Was he perhaps MAR.DUK (“son of the pure mound”), Enki’s firstborn by his wife DAM.KI.NA, impatient to seize by a ruse what was not legally his?
There is reason to believe that, having failed to achieve a son by his sister and thus produce a legal contender for the Enlilship, Enki relied on his son Marduk. Indeed, when the ancient Near East was seized with great social and military upheavals at the beginning of the second millennium B.C., Marduk was elevated in Babylon to the status of national god of Sumer and Akkad. Marduk was proclaimed King of the Gods, replacing Enlil, and the other gods were required to pledge allegiance to him and to come to reside in Babylon, where their activities could easily be supervised.
This usurpation of the Enlilship (long after the incident with Zu) was accompanied by an extensive Babylonian effort to forge the ancient texts. The most important texts were rewritten and altered so as to make Marduk appear as the Lord of Heavens, the Creator, the Benefactor, the Hero, instead of Anu or Enlil or even Ninurta. Among the texts altered was the ‘Tale of Zu’; and according to the Babylonian version it was Marduk (not Ninurta) who fought Zu. In this version, Marduk boasted: ‘Mahasti moh il Zu’ (‘I have crushed the skull of the god Zu’). Clearly, then, Zu could not have been Marduk.
Q: That’s just a sampling. There’s just so much information in these books. Let me go to The Lost Realms, which is the fourth book of Sitchin’s series The Earth Chronicles I look up Marduk in the back and I see on page — let me first go to page 89, the first mention of him in this book. I’ll just read from the top and hopefully it will all figure in.
The central panel on the eastern wall still shows the leader of the winning team (on the left) holding the decapitated head of the leader of the losing team.
The severe end suggests that there was more than play and entertainment to this ball game. At Chichén Itzá, as at Tula, there were several ball courts, perhaps for training or lesser matches. The main ball court was unique in its size and splendor, and the importance of what took place in it was underscored by the fact that it was provided with three temples that were richly decorated with scenes of warriors, mythological encounters, the Tree of Life, and a winged and bearded deity with two horns.
All this, and the diversity and regalia of the ball players, suggest to us an intertribal, if not international, aspect of an event of great political-religious significance. The number of players (seven), the decapitation of the losers’ leader, and the use of a rubber ball seem to mime a mythological tale in the Popol Vuh of a combat between the gods conducted as a contest with a rubber ball. It pitched the gods Seven-Macaw and his two sons against various Sky Gods, including the Sun, Moon, and Venus. The defeated son Seven-Huanaphu was executed: “His head was cut off from his body and rolled away, his heart was cut out from his chest.” But being a god, he was resurrected and became a planet.
Such a reenactment of godly events would have made the Toltec custom akin to religious plays in the ancient Near East. In Egypt, the dismemberment and resurrection of Osiris was reenacted annually in a mystery play in which actors, including the pharaoh, played the roles of various gods; and in Assyria, a complex play, also performed annually, reenacted a battle between two gods in which the loser was executed, only to be pardoned and resurrected by the God of Heaven. In Babylon, Enuma Elish, the epic describing the creation of the solar system, was read annually as part of the New Year celebrations; it depicted the celestial collision that led to the creation of Earth (the seventh planet) as the cleaving and decapitating of the monstrous Tiamat by the supreme Babylonian god Marduk.
Q: What else is in here? Let me go to page 268 because there’s four pages in a row about Marduk so this must be a good section to read.
But no sooner (in Anunnaki terms) had Anu and Antu returned to Nibiru than the peaceful division of Earth among the Anunnaki clans was disturbed. It was circa 3450 B.C., according to our calculations, when the incident of the Tower of Babel took place: an attempt by Marduk/Ra to obtain primacy for his city Babylon in Mesopotamia. Though frustrated by Enlil and Ninurta, the attempt to involve Mankind in building a launch tower brought about the decision of the gods to disperse Mankind and confuse its languages. The sole civilization and its language were now to be split up; and after a chaotic period that lasted some 350 years, the civilization of the Nile, with its own language and rudimentary writing, was formed. It happened, Egyptologists tell us, circa 3100 B.C.
Frustrated in his effort to assume supremacy in civilized Sumer, Marduk/Ra seized upon the granting of civilization to the Egyptians to return to that land and reclaim its lordship from his brother Thoth. Now Thoth found himself a god without a people; and it is our suggestion that accompanied by some of his faithful followers he chose an abode in the New Realms — in Mesoamerica.
And we further suggest that it happened not just “circa 3100 B.C.” but exactly in 3113 B.C. — the time, the year, and even the day from which the Mesoamericans began their Long Count.
Counting the passage of time by anchoring the calendar to a major event is not unusual at all. The Western Christian calendar counts the years from the birth of Christ. The Moslem calendar begins with the Hegira, the migration of Mohammed from Mecca to Medina. Skipping over the many examples from various preceding lands and monarchies, we shall mention the Jewish calendar, which is in effect the ancient (and first-ever) Calendar of Nippur, the Sumerian city dedicated to Enlil. Contrary to the common assumption that the Jewish count of years (5,748 in 1988) is from the “beginning of the world,” it is actually from the beginning of the Nippurian calendar in 3760 B.C. — the time, we assume, of Anu’s state visit to Earth.
Why not then accept our suggestion that the arrival of Quetzalcoatl, i.e., the Winged Serpent, in his new realm was the occasion for starting the Long Count of the Mesoamerican calendar — especially since it was the very god who had introduced the calendar to these lands?
Q: Anyway, let me conclude this review of a few sample paragraphs from Zecharia Sitchin’s works by going to Genesis Revisited and here there’s also interesting things where Marduk is mentioned. I see one of them here on page 298, which I just opened the book up to — and it says: (“WELL”)
. . . Phobos is even less dense than has been thought, so that its interior is either made of ice or is hollow.
Were a natural crater and interior faults artificially enlarged and carved out by “someone” to create inside Phobos a shelter, shielding its occupants from the cold and radiation of space? The Soviet report does not speculate on that; but what it says regarding the “tracks” is illuminating. It calls them “grooves,” reports that their sides are of a brighter material than the moonlet’s surface, and, what is indeed a revelation, that in the area west of the large crater, “new grooves can be identified” — grooves or tracks that were not there when Mariner 9 and the Vikings took pictures of the moonlet.
Since there is no volcanic activity on Phobos (the crater in its natural shape resulted from meteorite impacts, not volcanism), no wind storms, no rain, no flowing water — how did the new grooved tracks come about? Who was there on Phobos (and thus on Mars) since the 1970s? Who is on it now?
For, if there is no one there now, how to explain the March 27, 1989, incident?
Q: And the later one, I might add. This page continues:
The chilling possibility that modern science, catching up with ancient knowledge, has brought Mankind to the first incident in a War of the Worlds, rekindles a situation that has lain dormant almost 5,500 years.
The event that parallels today’s situation has come known as the Incident of the Tower of Babel. It is described in Genesis, chapter 11, and in The Wars of Gods and Men I refer to Mesopotamian texts with earlier and more detailed accounts of the incident. I have placed it in 3450 B.C. and construed it as the first attempt by Marduk to establish a space base in Babylon as an act of defiance against Enlil and his sons.
In the biblical version, the people whom Marduk had gotten to do the job were building, in Babylon, a city with a “tower whose head shall reach the heaven” in which a Shem—a space rocket—was to be installed. But the other deities were not amused by this foray of Mankind into the space age; so
Yahweh came down to see the city
and the tower which the humans were building.
And he said to unnamed colleagues:
This is just the beginning of their undertakings;
From now on, anything that they shall scheme to do
shall no longer be impossible for them.
Come, let us do down and confuse their language
so that they should not understand each other’s speech.
Almost 5,500 years later, the humans got together and “spoke one language,” in a coordinated international mission to Mars and Phobos.
And once again, someone was not amused.
Q: So let me real quick go to another page that has Marduk on it, 43 to 44. I haven’t stopped the tape recorder once and this is totally ad-libbed. I’ll just start reading somewhere.
In Babylon, Marduk was a dual deity. Physically present, resplendent in his (“PRICK PRICK”) precious garments, he was worshipped as Ilu (translated “god” but literally meaning “the Lofty One”); his struggle to gain supremacy over the Anunnaki gods has been detailed in my book The Wars of Gods and Men. On the other hand, “Marduk” was a celestial deity, a planetary god, who in the heavens assumed the attributes, role, and credits for the primordial creations that the Sumerians had attributed to Nibiru, the planet whose most frequent symbolic depiction was that of a winged disc. The Assyrians, replacing Marduk with their national god Ashur, combined the two aspects and depicted Ashur as a god within the winged disc.
The Hebrews followed suit but, preaching monotheism and recognizing—based on Sumerian scientific knowledge—the universality of God, ingeniously solved the problem of duality and of the multitude of Anunnaki deities involved in the events on Earth by concocting a Singular-yet- plural entity, not an El (the Hebrew equivalent of Ilu) but Elohim—a Creator who is plural (literally ‘Gods’) and yet One. This departure from the Babylonian and Assyrian religious viewpoint can be explained only by a realization that the Hebrews were aware that the deity who could speak to Abraham and Moses and the celestial Lord when the Sumerians called Nibiru were not one and the same scientifically, although all were part of a universal, everlasting, and omnipresent God—Elohim—in whose grand design for the universe the path of each planet is its predetermined “destiny,” and what the Anunnaki had done on Earth was likewise a predetermined mission. Thus was the handiwork of a universal God manifest in Heaven and on Earth.”