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INTERVIEW TRANSCRIPT — TAPE #216, SIDE #2


Q: Mark Russell Bell
W: Ruth Webb (talent agent in Los Angeles)
R: Ramona Bell, "Dreamland" radio show guest coordinator
A: Art Bell, host of "Dreamland" and "Coast to Coast" radio shows




Q: Well I'm just disgusted. I just spoke to Michael who's home sick with gout. And — well, first of all, he's taking Indochron/Indocin — one of them's the brand name and one's the generic name. I can't remember which. But they told him not to drink alcohol with the medication so, of course, that reminded me that I think sometimes the instructions they tell you along with the pills is really what helps you to get better rather than the pills itself. It's the placebo effect and all that. So I told him to be sure and drink lots of water and he didn't get a crystal like I told him to pick one up. And, for those people who don't think that alcohol and gout go together, just look at me and my twin brother. So he told me that he called Andy and Veronica was there and, apparently, she had a date already with Ed. So isn't that typical? I could have told you so. He obviously felt so uncomfortable with what I was telling him about people being gay that he had to rush out and screw the first woman in front of him to prove it to himself because, in society, it's considered something's wrong with you is you're gay so in order to make himself feel good about himself in terms of how society views him, he had to screw my friend Veronica. Now Veronica I thought was a very spiritually evolved woman. She seems to be intelligent and pretty and good-sensed but now I think that the aliens need to pick her up again and give her a tune-up. I mean what was she thinking of? How could she treat herself with such little respect? I mean she's forty-four, he's twenty-eight. It just really — it's disturbing to treat sex so lightly. I mean if you're not saving it for the love of your life it has no meaning. Well I knew it had no meaning to begin with (in this case). Anyway, it's quite alarming, to say the least.

( . . . )

Q: So it's Wednesday and I'm late for the Hotline. I've had a very emotional morning. The website looks great. It's almost entirely finished except for the color photos. We don't yet know if there's going to be room after having all of the tape sides but I've been thinking about my own flaws and sins and character issues and of God and love and "who is as" Mighael. And I was thinking how presumptive we are, us humans, to use the word love on each other at this time in our evolution. We're hardly deserving of such a word and, with the possible exception of my mother who was responsible for giving me life and caring for me, I never imagined that I really loved anyone other than my twin brother, of course. But — and I tried. I looked and looked and looked. But now that I know God, whenever I'm feeling angry at myself or self-loathing because of the knowledge of my sins and flaws, I just think of God and I feel love at His perfection and His patience and all of those wonderful character traits that we reflect at the best of our times. The only way anyone would want to live forever is ("THIS") profound knowledge of such a Perfect Being of Love. Anyway, I better watch while I'm driving.

( . . . )

Q: So something interesting happened today at the Hotline. On my way in, I saw William and I said, "Good morning, Wilhelm" almost flippantly. ("BUT") There was a little more to it than that I felt because as I was entering the Hotline room I saw a poster I hadn't noticed before saying, "You are so hot." So I asked William — I said, "Where's that poster from? That's new, isn't it?" And he said, "Well they left it up after the volunteer dinner because they liked it." So I'm thinking, "Well maybe Mighael's trying to tell me that I am close to the target." In one of William's other lives, he might have been named Wilhelm.

( . . . )

Q: I figured out I sent my book to 66 members of the press and no one — well, there's been that one review and "Wireless Flash" sent out my interview. But other than that I don't know of any other breaks, as they're called. Or reviews. And I'm just thinking, "Well obviously at the right time whatever is meant to happen will happen. God can orchestrate that. But also, giving credit to people on their freedom of choice, He knew that they wouldn't come forward for whatever reasons. Not even with the allegations. It just strikes me as funny because always you can tell when something is true. I mean all the evidence is right there for you to grasp. And I'm just thinking what must go through people's heads in this society — especially in the members of the media. Well, of course, there's denial factors. No one wants to be made fun of. 'It can't possibly be true so, therefore, it isn't true.' So you have logical problems. Everyone wants to take the safe way. Everyone wants someone else to make the decision, to recognize the individual who has something to say who's credible. Nobody wants to do it themselves because then they might get in trouble somehow. No one wants to make a stand. This is how we got into this mess. Oh — and the worst crime of all, perhaps — 'How dare God choose His messenger?' It should be left to us. We do a good job of electing our messengers. We have a President. Who would they have chosen to be God's messenger? Scary thought, isn't it?

( . . . )

Q: It's Thursday. I got up to day and I was thinking about Boo for a while before getting out of bed. I'm pretty sure He's bald. Everything from Barry Taff's story to Marlon Brando in "Apocalypse Now" choosing to be bald. I've always liked that look when it's natural. Anyway, it's a beautiful day in Los Angeles. Let's see what my horoscope says. "Lost love returns. Focus on speculation, discovery, physical attraction. Door supposedly locked could be found wide open." Hmm.

(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING WAS RECORDED FROM MY PACIFIC BELL MESSAGE CENTER.)

V: Today at 9:26 a.m. (hang-up) End of message. To repeat this message, press one. To save it, press two.

Q: I hope that isn't the family in Oklahoma.

V: To erase it, press —

( . . . )

Q: As I'm recording these messages—and what shockers—my machine stops working and starts working, so I taped it once but now I have to retape them so share them with you. Oh my God.

( . . . )

Q: I'll try it again. I hope it works this time. Mighael, what is going on with my tape recorder?

( . . . )

Q: I figured it out. Somehow the little tab got switched to Vox rather than Play/Rec.

( . . . )

V: Message saved. Sent Wednesday, May 21st at 5:07 p.m.

( . . . )

W: Hi, darling. This is Ruth. I'm glad I got you. I enjoyed most of your book until somebody stole it. I want to send you an invitation for June 11th at The Cinegrill. I'm presenting a new singer and I'm going to be sort of on the spot there too and I hope you can come. And what I'm calling you for is your address so I can an invitation. My number is (gives number). I miss you and I love you. It's Ruth — Ruth Webb.

( . . . )

V: Message saved. Sent today (May 22, 1997) at 9:28 a.m.

R: Yes. This is Oracle Press in Santa Monica, California? My name is Ramona Bell and I am interested in booking an interview with Mark Russell Bell, the author of Testament for a "Dreamland" interview with Art Bell. We're considering a date of July 27th. If this is possible would you please give us a call? (gives number) It is a Sunday program from 7 to 10 p.m. Pacific time and the interview usually goes on for two and a half hours with the authors that we — ("WE") we do have on the show. If you are able to contact Mr. Bell, would you please give us a call? Let us know his thinking on coming on the show and we will go from there. Once again, the number is (gives number) — possible interview on "Dreamland" with Art Bell for Mark Russell Bell on the 27th of July. ("MEN") My name is Ramona Bell. Thank you.

(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: WHAT FOLLOWS IS THE LETTER DATED FEBRUARY 18, 1997 MAILED TO ART ACCOMPANYING THE BOOK.)

Dear Art,

I am providing you with a complimentary copy of Testament. As you will see in the book's initial interview transcript, I began work on this project after researching 'The Bell Witch,' the famous 'talking poltergeist' case from the early 19th century in Tennessee. After reading a Fortean Times article about a similar contemporary case in Oklahoma, I contacted the family and discovered they also were named Bell! This inspired me to visit the family and embark on an odyssey into the unexplained.

As I learned more about the amassing of spirits/aliens encountered by the family, who affectionately refer to Him/Them as 'Michael' (as given a rather stereotyped poltergeist approach on ABC's "Ghosts, Mediums, Psychics: Put To The Test" and "20/20"), I realized that this is in fact an Angel.

In Oklahoma, I witnessed diverse supernatural phenomena and was startled when the materialization of objects around me continued upon returning to Los Angeles, where my condo is located across from the Angelus Temple. Most unexpected of all, my interview tapes from Oklahoma contained sounds and spirit messages not heard during the sessions.

I continued doing interviews and found evidence that I once was an Egyptian named Bel-Marduk (see color photo 27 on center insert page VII) and discovered that the House of Russell evolved from a lineage of kings designated "the first race of ancestry" (see pages 1015 and 1016). Also, my mother's original name was King (page 1017). As I am an identical twin (see photo on center insert page XIII) and a central message of my book is that love is the only religion, the Nostradamus Century 1 Quatrain 95 apparently applies to me:

"Before a monastery will be found a twin infant,

Descended from an ancient monastic bloodline:

His fame and power through sects and eloquence

Is such that they will say the living twin is rightly the elect [the chosen one]."

Are you familiar with the expression "Every movie is a miracle"? As a studio publicity writer at Paramount Pictures, the only major film studio actually located in Hollywood, I worked as "a carpenter in the Hollywood dream factory." The studio's mountain symbol is appropriate for my having worked there, as it seems my family tree can be traced back to Jesus and Moses following the Hitchcock lineage (see pages 1027 and 963). Apparently, in addition to Alfred Hitchcock, film director Ken Russell ("Tommy," "Altered States") is another cousin.

My book is available in Los Angeles at the Bodhi Tree in West Hollywood, the Psychic Eye in Sherman Oaks and at the Philosophical Research Society Bookstore in the Los Feliz area or via the published as explained on the attached postcard — this special offer is certainly available to your friends and audience. I would be delighted to be a guest on the show yet the book itself is the culmination of so many of your themes, you hardly need me. Apparently, Zecharia Sitchin's expectation of the return of Marduk applies not to a planet but to an individual. And remember the line "Poltergeists are usually associated with an individual" from one of the "Poltergeist" films? It seems that I am the focus for every poltergeist case, showing how they each are related to God and His limitless miracles. The Angel has shown me that no simple bodily nor technological function is performed without the Spirit's assistance. As my book proves, everything is 'paranormal phenomena' and synchronistically ordered by God, working through people's subconscious minds. He is always doing the best He can with what we give Him to work with at the time but our time may be running out. As a race, we must evolve and overcome our greed and self-interest to save ourselves and our planet. As every work of self-expression has been a collaboration with God and every movie truly is a miracle, you will see when you read the book that films with special relevance to this case include "Michael," "12 Monkeys," "Stargate," "We're No Angels" and "Star Wars." 'The Force' is an effective metaphor for God, Whom the book reveals to be One as well as the amassing of all spirits.

Among the publicity campaigns I worked on while on staff at Paramount were those for several "The Naked Gun" and "Star Trek" films. The O. J. Simpson case is prophetic because of the Simpson/Goldman name combination. As you will see in my book, I am quite happy living in L.A. with my 'Angel.' As in Gustav Davidson's A Dictionary of Angels, "Michael has often been equated with the Holy Ghost, the Logos, God, Metatron, etc." Did you know that the 'el' letter combination in names like Michael and Bell means "of God"? So my book is indeed the case study for 'the Second Coming.' As the 'Christed One' for the new millennium, I have a message of a love and proof of God's Existence for mankind if only they are willing to hear it. Unfortunately, this evidence may be too daunting for media to handle. Amazing claims require amazing evidence and that's what my book offers. Attached are copies of the Oracle Press news release distributed by P.R. Newswire, Daily Variety advertisement, direct marketing post card and a duplicate set of the color photos from the book.

Sincerely,

Mark Russell Bell

(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: I RETURNED THE CALL APPROXIMATELY TWO HOURS AFTER THE MESSAGE HAD BEEN LEFT.)

A: Hello there?

Q: Is Ramona there?

A: Yes. Just one moment, please.

R: Hi. This is Ramona.

Q: Hi, Ramona. ("HHH") This is Mark Russell Bell returning your call. ("O")

R: Hi there, Mark. How are you?

Q: Oh very good.

R: Um-huh?

Q: Are you familiar with my book, by any chance?

R: No. All I've had a chance to read was the background and look at some of the pictures. ("HAD")

Q: Okay. Because I thought it might be fun — you know, it's a series of interviews. Taped interviews — sort of documentary-style on my life. So I thought it might be fun to also do this booking conversation for my next book. I'm doing a sequel now. Or maybe I should even speak to Art directly. Whatever you think would be best.

R: Well, that's why ("I'M") I'm calling you to find out what we can do here.

Q: Okay.

R: Let me see. Is your book available?

Q: Yes. In fact, I have a — it's on — there's an Internet edition now on-line.

R: Uh-huh.

Q: Of course, it's available here in L.A. at the Bodhi Tree and the Psychic Eye — and those kinds of stores. And they have an 800 number at the Philosophical Research Society where people can order it that way. I don't really have a distributor yet. You never know.

R: Yeah, that's true.

Q: I contacted, ("LIKE") like, the Quality Paperback Book Club and those kinds of places. But you know people aren't comfortable with this material, as well you know. So, anyway, we'll wait and see. I'm taking a wait and see approach. My book just was published in January so — I don't have my own radio show to promote it so it's been slow selling.

R: Well, that's true. ("THAT'S TRUE")

Q: Right

R: But we can do what we can.

Q: Right.

R: If you have — if it's at least ("IN") accessible to the public. We might be able to —

Q: Oh, it' very accessible.

R: Okay. ("I HAVE O")

Q: I've only had one review so far.

R: Just one?

Q: Just one review so far. ("GAY") Well, it's so long — ("I MEAN") obviously, it's taking people a while to read. I did send out, like, 66 different copies to media such as Art. All the major newspapers. All the TV — ("YOU KNOW") so we'll just — I'm just taking a wait and see approach. ("OKAY")

R: Well, we can — we can do that. ("OKAY" "THAT'S")

Q: By the way, ("YOU") as you know, I'm a very big fan of Art's show.

R: I hope this isn't going to cloud anything as far as, you know, programming because I tend to find that if fans can put off the fact that they're fans it would make —

Q: Well, I'm not — I wouldn't call myself a fan (of Art).

R: It would make a better — well, oh, if you're —

Q: I'm very discriminating.

R: If you're a listener — ("THEN")

Q: Because I, you know, I worked at Paramount in marketing and public relations. So the one problem I have with Art's show is that he doesn't really take a stand on his guests. I mean he'll let complete loonies appear one night and then people with credibility ("THE") the next night and doesn't really say which — what he thinks. I think probably one of the all-time lows was what's-her-name — that ("THAT") cult leader — I can't remember — oh, Prophet.

R: I thought that was a very good interview, actually.

Q: Yeah but this woman — you know, they have guns. They're stockpiling food. They're letting the impression linger that you can survive a nuclear war. And that's ("YOU KNOW") just not the case. So, anyway, but recently I've been trying to get up awareness about the Cassini mission ("THAT") NASA is planning — ("THEY'RE") planning on launching 73 pounds of plutonium into the air. So if that explodes that's the end of the world. So that's why I think I would ("I WOULD") like to go on and do some interviews. I've only done three local station interviews so far. I'm friends — my friend Ken Champion's show is now going syndicated but I hate his partner, John — (who's) just a complete idiot.

(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: I SLIPPED AND SAID "BOB" INSTEAD OF JOHN YET CORRECTED THE NAME FOR THIS TRANSCRIPT. IN FAIRNESS, I LISTENED TO THE SHOW FOR A FEW MINUTES RECENTLY AND JOHN DID EXPRESS COMPASSION WHEN A CALLER TOLD HIM THE STORY OF A TEENAGE BOY WHO TOLD HIS PARENTS HE WAS GAY. THE PARENTS' RESPONSE WAS TO TAKE AWAY HIS CHRISTMAS PRESENTS. THE BOY COMMITTED SUICIDE, GOUGING OUT HIS EYES IN ANGER.)

Q: So I don't know. I'm just sort of — I haven't really been aggressive in — ("I'M NO[T]") I'm one of those people who doesn't think that any publicity is good publicity. I much prefer to meet in advance with the person — especially on a national break so they can sort of get to know me a little bit and see what I'm all about. ("NOW")

R: Well, you know, if that's the vein that you wish to take.

Q: Well, no — that would be a possibility. I mean I would even be willing to go out there and meet with Art.

R: Well, we don't do that.

Q: Oh. Okay.

R: I mean, you know, meeting people is something that we just —

Q: Well, I'm just discussing — right. ("I MEAN" "WE'RE")

R: That's why we do phone interviews.

Q: Let me just ask — I'm just trying to get information this time. Do you know if Art has read any of the book?

R: No.

Q: No.

R: He hasn't. I mean we don't — ("WE") all I have —

Q: He doesn't read. ("YEAH")

R: — is what Oracle Press sent me, which is the basic press kit and some pictures.

Q: I see. Now the bigfoot photo, by the way, I think would be great for his website. Have you seen the book — the bigfoot photo?

R: Yes. That's the one that Cliff Crook took.

Q: Right. (Not exactly.) Wouldn't that be — I don't know. Cliff's a nice guy. I find —

R: We've interviewed him. ("YEAH")

Q: You did?

R: Um-huh.

Q: That's not what he said. (Not on the air.) He said that you were going to interview him but at the last moment you canceled him.

R: Anything's a possibility. ("YEAH")

Q: That's what he said.

R: Remember — we've got dozens of guests.

Q: Yeah, right — ("NO" "WHAT") he was going to be on but at the last moment a better guest came along. But he's still available. He'd love to be a guest at some point.

R: We'll make a consideration.

Q: Of course, it's a lot better photo than that black and white one of the guy standing behind the tree with the ("COS") gorilla costume. ("BUT UM") Let's see — what was I going to — ("YO[U KN]OW") not everyone is a guest.

R: That's true.

Q: Like I was thinking that maybe if you and Art looked at my website, you could just put it ("YOU KNOW") — maybe on your site and saying, 'An Interesting Site' or something. What's interesting in my case is, apparently, ("YOU KNOW IN MY") my case history turns out — of course, my name is Mark Russell Bell — but I was an Egyptian by the name of Bel-Marduk, which apparently is also linked with the god Amun-Ra. So it's just interesting synchronicity. Your name is Ramona. It has 'ra' in it. And, of course, 'el' means 'of God.' So I'm very good at these meanings in names and finding meanings.

R: Hmm.

Q: And, of course, I worked at Paramount so you ("SEE") even have 'ra' in Paramount.

R: (no response)

Q: So, anyway, ("IT'S") I have a lot to talk about, obviously. But if I were to go on Art's show, I was thinking, you know, "Dreamland" is a little bit more fringy, of course, so I'd prefer his normal show. Would there be any possibility of that?

R: Actually, I don't even think there's a possibility of "Dreamland," Mark.

Q: Okay.

R: I've just reconsidered everything. Okay?

Q: Okay. Well, I'm going to put — ("THA[NK]")

R: Thank you very much.

Q: — this conversation on my website so everyone can see it.

R: Whatever you want.

Q: Okay. Thank you.

R: Good-bye.

( . . . )

Q: (speaking into tape recorder) So good old Ruth. She found a seventy-year-old singer. She's going to end me an invitation. We chatted a little bit. Sherri Spillane just happened to be at her house and she's never there so she said it was a miracle. And Ruth said she's invited — Kathryn Grayson's going to be there. All the stars are going to be there at The Cinegrill so I guess I will be there too unless I have an interview, which doesn't look like it's likely and, anyway, I can't let these things disappoint me or get me down. I didn't have a choice as far as I'm concerned.

( . . . )

Q: So it's Thursday afternoon and I just spoke to Nicole Shoong who is the publisher and editor of California Sun. I told her what a wonderful newspaper she was putting out and ("HOW") when the Cassini Mission article came out and I was faxing it all over town and I can't believe that no one else has covered it and I'm doing my part and, anyway, I suggested her developing her website because a lot of people can go there. Anyway, it was a nice talk. I said I really do think she is the reincarnation of Paul Revere or, at least, 'close to his energy' for our time. And, anyway, I told her I want to give her publicity and she said I could use the article on the website. And I said I would mention the first four paragraphs of her editorial. I just noticed she's got a little lion there—hmmm—at the bottom of her (May 1997) editorial. So I said I'd send her a copy of my book and she said she'd review it. I also spoke to Cliff Crook and he told me his wife's name was also originally Bell. I don't know if that came up when I talked with her before or not. There are so many Bells around. And he said fine as long as the copyright notice is there so I'm going to go ahead and add the color photos to the website. Of course, my arrangement with Cliff and with the other individual who provided the ghost photo is with each printing they'd be getting a check and this really isn't a printing so, hopefully, it will lead to printings if it helps get awareness out. Anyway, the main thing is just making it accessible to people, letting Spirit take over. I would say, "Mighael, how about a crop circle with my name spelled out?" Mark Russell Bell. That would be one way of getting some publicity. Isn't that a good idea? I don't think He wants to be that obvious. He seems to like — he doesn't want to make it too easy for people. He wants to be loved. He wants to be loved for Himself/Themselves. Ourselves. There's another interesting article in this California Sun. It's got really unusual articles that make you think unlike what you read in most newspapers and magazines these days. But I just love some of the articles. Some of them are a little out there but they cover activists and disinformation campaigns and just — it's pretty much everything that I would cover if I was running a newspaper. But my eye fell upon an unusual article entitled "Messages From The Cosmic Maya" by Aluna Joy Yaxk'in. It has a "Planetary Mission of the Extraterrestrials." Well I had to read that. And there's another article in the same issue that alleges — this I could not believe and ("IT DOESN'T") I just don't know what to think but it says "Two Living ET's Captured in Brazil." And that — if that was true, you would think we would've heard about it by now. So, of course, I don't take anything seriously until there is some kind of proof. It says:

In what has been described as the 'second Roswell' because of the number of credible eyewitnesses (over sixty civilian and military personnel), two 'non-human' entities were captured in the small town of Varginha, Minas Gerais on January 20, 1996.

The town Fire Brigade is given credit for the capture, with assistance from military police and civilians. This incredible story will be told in full by John Carpenter, Saturday, May 17th, from 7:30 to 10:30 p.m. in the Chemistry Building, Room 1179, on the University of California/Santa Barbara campus.

Also included in the lecture will be slides and video interviews with abductees in Australia, where a UFO flap (on-going sightings) are now occurring. Mr. Carpenter is currently the National Director for the Mutual UFO Network (MUFON).

Q: So something seems fishy about this because if this were the case where are they now? If they were — why haven't we heard about it? It doesn't make sense. So, anyway, this other article is written by William Huayta, Chasqui Sun Messenger of the Incas.

Cuzco, Peru - The world is in a time critical transition highlighted by a crisis in spiritual and moral principles. At this time it is necessary to establish the real existence of cosmic ships known as UFO's. Our awareness of beings from other planets is nothing new. Throughout the ages they have visited planet Earth and influenced its development. But modern man, seduced by his pride in the science of three dimensional reality, believes that our Earth is the only planet where life and civilization can exist. The truth is, we have created for ourselves a dark world of confusion and suffering.

Q: A lot of this is familiar stuff. But it gets into some real unusual areas so it's hard to tell how much of it is true and how much of it is just his impression of the truth but he does talk about "extraterrestrials of the White Brotherhood" and "They exist in physical form but they ceased working closely with us 500 years ago with the fall of the Incan Empire." And: "In 1750 the Inca, Shora Atahuaallpa warned the soldiers of the Sun: 'When humanity loses its connection to the natural forces, it will create more war and will become lost in darkness.' Most leaders of political and social movements claim to have peace, happiness and freedom as their goal. But too often they look for it in war, aggression, and terror, and by creating hatred and jealousy." It goes on to say:

The darkness of our world; the wars and pollution, is only a reflection of our personal lives of darkness and mental, physical and spiritual pollution. Our true enemy, as well as our true source of strength, lies within. When enough of us have conquered that enemy then the external world will change. When this happens there will be no need for political parties of the left or right; there will be no need for governments because each citizen will know how to govern himself.

Q: So maybe what he thinks is the White Brotherhood channeling is the same as Mighael and, of course, my book I think, rather than just reminding of this message, lays it out in almost soap opera terms in terms of ("SOME") the issues that it brings through my life, through parallels in a single person's life and perspectives of the chaos around him. So, in this article, it says:

The return of these ships at this time needs to be understood. We are on the eve of a great cosmic transition. They are here to assist us through this transition period. As the pace quickens during the next few years they will be making themselves known more and more through direct contact with individuals, both physically and non-physically. It is their mission to guide us safely through this transition by awakening our consciousness. If this is not possible, then they are here to evacuate those who will be chosen to be the seed of the future generations. These people will be chosen according to the quality of the love radiating from their aura.

Q: So let me make one additional statement there regarding love since no one on Earth seems to know what it means or they wouldn't do the things that they do. If you were going to 'choose' individuals 'to be the seed of the future generations' and you were God, You would look at their love for God. What other true love is there at such a primitive stage in our evolution? There are many emotions confused as love but true love is a reaching out to true life and wisdom and integrity. So when people say "love" — and, again, love is not a description of something, it's a reflection of doing something for others; not being caught up in what you want or your own ego. It was like when Ruth called me. All she cared about was getting me there to her event to make sure she wasn't embarrassed that her name didn't draw people to the event. ("WHEN") She should be more interested in the fact that this wonderful person who loves her and worked with her might be able to see her again but no, she doesn't even time to see me for lunch until after this event.

(TRANSCRIBER'S NOTE: THE FOLLOWING EVENING AFTER MY CONVERSATION WITH RAMONA BELL, ART AND SEAN DAVID MORTON INTERVIEWED AN INDIVIDUAL CALLING HIMSELF 'VICTOR' WHO CLAIMED TO HAVE BROUGHT OUT OF AREA 51 VIDEO FOOTAGE IN A DIGITAL FORMAT SHOWING A TELEPATHIC INTERVIEW ATTEMPT WITH AN ALIEN. THE VIDEO CLIP WAS LATER TRANSLATED TO ANALOG AND VHS. WHAT FOLLOWS IS A NEWS REPORTING SEGMENT OF NEW TESTAMENT WITH TRANSCRIBED EXCERPTS FROM THE INTERVIEW I TAPED THE FOLLOWING SUNDAY WHEN THE SHOW WAS REBROADCAST OUT OF SAN DIEGO. I WAS SURPRISED TO DISCOVER THAT, IN ADDITION TO THE STATIC, UNATTRIBUTED SOUNDS AND SOME SPIRIT MESSAGES ARE AUDIBLE ON THE CASSETTE TAPE I RECORDED. THE DISCUSSED VIDEO FOOTAGE IS IDENTIFIED "DNI/2704/025818.")

V: VICTOR (RECORDED FROM "COAST TO COAST" RADIOCAST)

A: ART BELL (RECORDED FROM RADIOCAST)

S: SEAN DAVID MORTON (RECORDED FROM RADIOCAST)






V: . . . I believe the government's position is that they shot this alien down. I do not personally believe that the government could shoot this alien down if the alien did not choose to be shot down . . . The maltreatment of the aliens stems from our essential helplessness to either help or affect them. The dog and pony show of a medical team handling the physical debilities of these beings is one of the constant sources of paranoia and chaos within the administration of these programs . . . their physiology operates in a way that is symbolically similar, let us say, to human physiology but does not appear to include the normal biological functions . . .

A: Might I ask did we manage any form of communication with it?

V: This is the great mystery involved in the government's hosting of these beings since the late '40s, in fact. The telepathic capabilities of these beings has been long established. At least insofar as DNI (Department of Naval Intelligence) is concerned. . . . the issue here is that no one who has ever been in the presence of these beings has not felt as if thoughts not his own were entering his brain . . . the question mark is whether certain individuals truly are more capable of receiving and returning these messages than the average person.

A: Sure. . . .

V: The telepathy and the technology which they so clearly possess are the only signs of their sentience . . . they have on occasion used gestures such as 'stop' or 'come here' —

A: Uh-huh.

V: — that mimic signs that I suppose they have seen among the human personnel that they've encountered. And the civilians, by the way. . . . I think you will find that all of the reports of these beings inevitably end with them dying. And most of their appearances are in a condition that seems to be debilitated. . . . I now believe very strongly that the alien is dead. I would go so far as to say that all of the beings in the government's possession are now dead.

A: Are we mistreating them?

V: Did the Romans mistreat Jesus? This is the central issue for me increasingly and even more so in the time since I brought out this tape. I believe that these beings are engineering their own treatment. They are presenting themselves as a test to us and I do not believe that if they were not willing to be treated in the way that we treat them we would have the power to do so but you — but ("YEAH") in the sense that these beings are dying in our custody and in the sense that our hosting of them seems to have no taint of commonality, no successful two-way communication that we can understand. I believe that the aliens understand us better than we understand them. And I believe that the statements they make or appear to make are calibrated to some purpose of their own which is not clearly understood by us. . . . I believe in an overarching sense these beings have been here before and the program that they are performing upon the human race is as old as the human race — certainly, as old as consciousness. . . . I believe that these beings cannot be harmed by us in any significant way — in any way that is meaningful to them but at the same time I believe they're presenting us with a sort of test. They have appeared in an incomprehensible panoply of circumstances — in front of private individuals who are then left, metaphorically speaking, wandering in the wilderness, unable to convince the world at large that what they've experienced is real. . . (interlude includes "Tusk" song performed by Fleetwood Mac, news update and "Coast to Coast" theme music featuring a variety of clock sounds)

A: Good morning. My guests are Sean David Morton and the mysterious—and for a good reason—'Victor,' who brought out, got out, took out, managed to somehow get out a digital version of the alien interview that can be seen in single picture form—at least a couple of photographs—at my website now at www.artbell.com . . . (commercials) Back to Sean David Morton and Victor. Gentlemen, welcome back.

V: How far down did you go?

S: Thank you.

A: We're back on the air and if everybody would turn off their radios please.

V: . . . to a certain extent the beings appear to be only symbolically biological. Now what I mean by that is that — when they're autopsied they have the organs of a biological entity. They appear to function as a biological entity but there is a lack of the chemical and physical functions one would expect in a biological entity and this has led many individuals to consider them to be somehow not quite physical — that they are somehow hallucinatory no matter how physical they may appear to be.

A: Huh.

V: But another way of looking at it—and this relates to their technology as well—is to just simply say that we are not capable of understanding how they have evolved or how they have changed themselves in their own environment. . . . I don't want to make too many religious allusions but to a certain extent I — for some reason my mind keeps going back to the story of Jesus, which before this occurred I did not believe to be a historical fact. But at any rate certainly symbolically it's applicable that the son of God would make himself vulnerable to human action when obviously the son of God would not be in that position in his natural condition. . . . the saucers themselves I don't believe have been moved at this time.

A: A-ha!

V: I believe they will be moved and I can't tell you how they will be moved. I have not made a study of all of the UFO lore but I believe — well, I was told that John Lear made a claim that various government bases are connected by a vast series of underground tunnels —

A: That's right.

V: — which would allow for these saucers to be moved underground. Now I have no knowledge of that. I have never seen evidence of these tunnels. I find it —

not hard to believe because I've seen what the beings have allowed humans to do with their technology. And I suppose that if it were part of their plan they might make this possible but I believe it's beyond the scope of human engineering to, for instance, connect Edwards Air Force Base to Tonopah or —

A: Alright.

V: — to Area 51. But I certainly believe even if this is true and I am not aware of it, that there are no tunnels between Area 51 — well, between S4 and between — the Utah site which is where the cover program is moving — the ("COVER") — the Michael Air Force Station and the Utah White Sands. . . . All I'll say about meals is that at S4, level three and four have no cafeteria facilities and the personnel who work on those levels do not come up to feed. There's — this sounds ridiculous — but there's a dumb waiter system which has a somewhat amusing visual — ("ACTS") a somewhat amusing visual metaphor for the transportation of the saucers to the surface in that the plates are coming down these dumb waiters into the security office as the saucers are being elevated to the surface and I've often found this to be obscurely amusing. . . . I believe that the government by turns like to pride itself on these creatures being their prisoners or congratulate themselves on being these creatures' host but, in fact, I believe that the creatures are performing their own —

A: Function.

V: — function. ("YEAH") . . . The moment when video could be brought out, I believe, has passed. ("NO") That's not to say that another similar moment of confusion and indecision on the part of the authorities won't arise again. Number one: they've eliminated all of their video. Someone came up with the bright idea that all of this secret documentation would be more secret in a digital format and, of course, anybody involved in the Internet knows this is not the case. And a good chunk of their budget that they didn't expect to be spending is now spent trying to second guess the ways in which this information can be spread. But at the moment that this clip presented itself to be 'smuggled out,' as we are saying, the confusion — the bureaucratic confusion and the actual physical confusion made it possible and that's no longer the case . . . but this particular two-minute, fifty-five-second clip was strictly a case of an opportunity presenting itself at a particular moment when the facility was in turmoil — when a number of forces came together. . . . I have seen other video but this was the piece that I could take. In a metaphorical sense, again, Morton's misstatement in his newsletter is correct metaphorically. I did see the opportunity and I did take it. And this was the extent. This was the size of the bundle that I could, metaphorically again, smuggle out. ("HH-HH-HH") They were — the — the riches that are available are truly mind-boggling. And, by the way, I was speaking to Morton during the commercial for a moment and he brought up the "Alien Autopsy" which I believe—in fact, I would say that I know—has to be a hoax because — if only because the beings in that video do not resemble any of the beings in any of the other documentation . . . I have changed in ways that I didn't expect since this entire process began. When I brought this tape to Rocket I was — I had an idea about myself and about what I was planning to do after revealing this tape that has not come to pass. I'm dealing with the endless confusion that seems to — this . . . character who runs Rocket Pictures, you know, led me to believe this would be quick and clean. And instead here we are —

A: Sure.

V: — about a year later. But at the same time my desires for my own life have changed in ways I did not expect. . . . We spoke about the effect —

A: Sure.

V: — of these beings and my feeling is that I may simply fade out not only from this unwanted public persona but also from my life as I knew it. I believe to a certain extent these being are asking us to step away from the life we know and for human civilization to step away from its path and step out into unknown areas — truly unknown. They don't present us with maps.

S: Did it have two fingers, three fingers? Can you describe the digits on a hand?

V: It has four fingers — one of which resembles a thumb ("UH-HUH") but has a pivot point that a human thumb doesn't have. It can function almost as a finger or as a thumb. You understand what I'm saying?

M: Yes. ("YEAH")

S: I guess the ultimate question I have is, gosh Victor, where are we going with all this? I mean we've got — the whole reason I got involved in Area 51 in the first place was because — not only because they were flying flying saucers up and down the valley that I was watching and bringing people out to see — but that this technology was so amazing that I felt —

V: Have you seen any evidence of it in the culture at large?

S: Of the technology?

V: No. Obviously not. And I think you should ask yourself why the government, if it had mastered this alien technology — if it had traded for it or wrested it by violence from these beings — why this technology has not been presented before the world as an example of unimaginable force.

A: Well, we were discussing that to some degree and the STS-48 and now the STS-80 tape show things that would indicate that we do indeed have this technology and we are indeed using it. Not publicly but we are using it.

V: . . . the constant, ("UM") uh, the constant contacts these aliens make with private individuals but the comment I didn't get to was that the — this constant contact with the government resembles a test that the government is failing — a test of its purpose and its spiritual worth, if you will.

A: Alright, when you gave the tape, Victor, to Rocket Video —

V: Yes?

A: — what was your motivation? Why did you take this tape to them? Did you want —

V: I took it to Rocket Video because I had decided that I wanted money. And at the time I had more rationalizations than I have today but I felt that I was putting myself in danger, putting my career in danger and that I needed to give myself as much latitude for essentially fleeing as I could. And that I needed money. And when I went to Hollywood hat in hand rather foolishly I — it quickly became apparent to the that almost everyone — well, that almost no one could be trusted to maintain my privacy. Not because they particularly cared about upending my plans but ("TO") simply because they felt that the publicity would be to their benefit or in some cases — in some of the larger organizations — I didn't get to the point of actually discussing this but I intuited that they were worried about their reputations. This business with the alien autopsy has, I guess — I assume this from things that have been said that to a certain extent Fox Television has suffered some ridicule that they —

A: That's right.

V: — don't seem to be able to shake off. But at any rate Rocket Pictures offered me —

A: Money.

V: — a deal that I felt I could take that I — that still has maintained my anonymity although they do keep pushing me to make more and more of these statements. This call is the —

A: The end of it?

V: — was — is the end of the contractual arrangement and it was supposed to have happened before the end of last year. Not with you but with whoever they chose as the outside interview and here we are now. And now they have Germans, they have — I don't know who — the British. They have unnumerable people that they want me to talk to and I — and even for money at this point I think it's more dangerous than it's worth. . . . this entire experience has been not what I expected . . . .


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